One Drop of Pagan Blood

From the hounds at The Wild Hunt, I find this video from Cindy Jacobs:

Jocobs is fretting about the “Leviathan spirit,” which seems to be a demonic entity. The vimeo page references Job 41, ignoring the fact that God seems to be describing a real creature that He has defeated rather than a spiritual entity.

Jacobs goes on to link the Leviathan spirit to Native American spirit worship, particularly the use of the crocodile totem. Then she gets even more dodgy:

If you have in your bloodline any animus, any Native American blood, for instance — not all Native Americans worshiped the serpent or crocodile, many did — but you might want to renounce that and repent for the generational iniquity. If you are — perhaps you’re Mexican and you might have indigenous blood in you or Mayan blood — those who have Aztec blood in any way, you need to repent for the sin of animism before you begin to deal with this spirit.

We’re reaching back now to the Inquisition, when it was decided that having Jewish blood led to heresy.

Jacobs and the rest of the New Apostolic Reformation crowd are really starting to disturb me.

  • Michael Mock

    “It was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed
    within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to
    me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states,
    nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right
    through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line
    shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts
    overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even
    in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. . . .
    If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil
    deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us
    and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the
    heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his
    own heart?”

    -Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archapelago

    …As opposed to the apparent view of Jacobs and her ilk, who seem to believe that evil is a sort of tarnish or impurity laid on human beings by immaterial outside entities.

    • John Evans

      People want the world to be simple and easy. It’s not.

  • ScottBailey

    Probably in the top ten stupid things I have seen a Christian ‘preach’ on in my life time.

    “The Law of Double Reference”… the stupid that comes from that statement is almost too much to bear.

  • JohnMWhite

    So that’s not remotely sinister…

    I guarantee she will swear until she is blue in the face that she’s not remotely racist or xenophobic.

    Also, am I the only one who gets genuinely creeped out by evangelical terminology? The way phrases like “the lord put a subject on my heart” and “I witnessed to him for hours” come out, it seems sort of robotic and kind of hits the uncanny valley of being genuine English phrases who don’t quite make enough sense. I’m not sure if it’s the ubiquitousness of this phraseology, which suggests to me everybody got the same script and are lacking in sincerity, or if it’s because such phrases seem to imply that there’s basically no autonomy in these people and they’re just doing what god commands as though he’s their operating system. Something about it just doesn’t sit right in my ears. Maybe I’m just evangelicalphobic?

  • Greg G.

    Sometimes you hear people who sound like they are riding the train to Crazytown. Cindy Jacobs is waiting at the destination.

    • Artor

      No, she never got off that train. It hit the Crazytown Station at full speed and crashed through the building like in that old movie, Silver Streak.

  • Rain

    She’s a fraud. I saw her on video once doing the ol’ growing-a-leg-longer routine.

    • kessy_athena

      Honestly, the main things I heard were, “Buy our CD’s and DVD’s,” and “Subscribe to the advanced school.” I bet she’d preach The Life of Brian if you paid her enough.

  • Thin-ice

    Apart from her annoying voice and hair (forgive my ad-hominem attack), where did she get her “doctorate”? A trailer in the Arizona sagebrush? And Cindy, there are two cameras in the room. Look at the camera showing the red light, OK?

  • RickRayFSM

    Can’t wait for the next rapture (alien abduction) to occur so these crazy xian nutters are zapped off the face of the earth and sane, rational people can get on with their lives. RAMEN

  • Voidhawk

    Does she not have to repent of the animism and paganism in her own blood? White folk had their forest spirits/gods too. They were building temples and burial mounds thousands of years before the cross arrived on their shores.

  • Steve

    Look I’m sorry if this isn’t appreciated, but where the hell do you guys get the latest info in “this one Christian somewhere said something weird”? Every time I browse through the atheist section, it seems like 60% of the articles are about some weirdo kind of Christian saying something dumb. I’m a Christian myself (no role model as one though), and I never hear about these freaks outside of Patheos Atheism. I mean, do you guys have what, some kind of database for this stuff? Do you think that maybe, focusing on these weirdo fringe freak-shows kind of gives you a skewed view of the religion and its adherents as a whole? Just throwing it out there, probably going to get me a lot of down-votes.

    On the article: And you don’t repent for something that your ancestors did. That’s not how redemption/Jesus/anything ever works.

    EDIT: And, “Xian”? Is that supposed to be a slur? Am I supposed to be offended by that? It’s kind of weak, really. If you’re going to use slurs, use the good ones. “Papist” and “prod” are some good ones. Look them up.

    • Yoav

      I don’t know where you live but in the US these people are very well known and have a following of millions who tune in to listen to them every day and as such what they say is worth reporting.

      On the article: And you don’t repent for something that your ancestors did. That’s not how redemption/Jesus/anything ever works.

      Really, isn’t the whole christianity thing based on the idea that god had to sacrifice himself to himself so he can forgive us for our supposed ancestors falling into the trap he set for them?

      EDIT: And, “Xian”? Is that supposed to be a slur?

      No, just a convenient, and very common, shorthand.

      • Steve

        Maybe it’s because I’m not an evangelical, but I DO live in the U.S. and I have never met a Christian like this.

        “Really, isn’t the whole christianity thing based on the idea that god had to sacrifice himself to himself so he can forgive us for our supposed ancestors falling into the trap he set for them?”

        I would say no. That may be how -some- Christians interpret it, however. God only set a “trap” if you insist on reading Genesis in a literalistic or fundamentalist way. Creationism is a very reactionary thing and a lot of Christians have no interest in it. Christians aren’t a monolith, y’know. Honestly there’s so many wildly differing theologies that Christianity isn’t so much a religion as a family of religions.

        “No, just a convenient, and very common, shorthand.”

        Common? Nope. Wrong. I hardly ever see it, except when it is being used by sneering atheists or pagans online. So let’s recap: it’s a nickname for a group that the said group never uses for itself, and is only used by people who view the group contemptuously, as an expression of contempt. That’s basically the definition of a slur. Like I said, my feelings aren’t hurt, if anything I’m just disappointed that it’s so lame. Honestly. I’d have more respect for the people that use it if they just admitted what it really was.

        • VorJack

          The ‘x” in ‘xtian’ is the greek letter ‘chi’. As in the word “xmas,” the ‘chi’ is just a stand in for the word ‘christ’.”

          As Yoav said, the abbreviation has been in use for centuries. The OED finds references as far back as the 15th century. It seems to be used interchangeably with “xpian.” After all, the chi-rho “xp” symbol was one of the earliest christian symbols, perhaps even predating the cross.

          I’ll admit it has fallen out of favor with most American Christians. I don’t know why, but I’d hazard a guess that using a greek letter doesn’t sit well with folks who are uncomfortable with Christianity’s eastern origins.

          • Steve

            Alright I have to admit, when I first posted that comment, I
            really did not think that it would get 6 or 8 different responses. I’m not going to leave an individual response to each one, because, come on, that’s just ridiculous. So consider this a group response or something like that.
            Yeah. I’m not that great of a writer. I’m sorry if I overlooked something, but yeah, there’s like, 6+ different replies to keep track of.

            First, I absolutely do know that XP (Chi-Rho, first letters
            in Christos) was a symbol of Jesus and Christianity as a whole. And Noelle, I do understand what it means. I always have. None of you are giving me a lesson
            in Greek. You’re telling me stuff that I already know, then sitting back with a big satisfied grin on your face. You call me presumptuous, but really you’re the presumptuous one for understanding that I don’t know what it means. kassy_athena, I do know that Christian was originally a slur itself. However, I don’t think that actually changes anything. And hey Artor, surprise for you, I am a Catholic after all. In fact, I know about Chi-Rho because I went to a Catholic school, where they teach the history and origins of Christianity. VorJack, I do not have any problems with Christianity’s eastern origins. I am fully aware of them. So please, please, take this point away: I already know this stuff, you are not saying anything new, you’re not giving me any kind of lesson in Church history, or Greek, or anything.. I know much more about early Christianity than
            you all assumed (and look what happened to us all when you guys assumed).

            So then, why did I identify “Xian” as a slur, you ask?
            Because, I cannot stress this enough, in all my years as a Christian, going to Christian schools and churches and living in Christian families, I have never heard another Christian, I have never heard another Christian, in person, or online, call himself an “xian”. I only hear that from people who are not Christians and who in fact seem to have a general bone to pick with Christians. But I guess the final reason why it looks like a slur to me is just the general tone with which it is used. But no, JohnMWhite, I myself was not offended. Why did I bring it up if I wasn’t offended? Well, you’ll notice that my bit about “Xian” was included in a edit. That’s because right after posting it, I saw a comment from RickRayFSM using it and I thought “Hey, that looks like a slur, I think I’ll call him out on it”. You do not need to have hurt feelings to feel like calling someone out on their BS.

            And here is really my most important point to make. If you
            forget all the stuff I said before but not this, fine. A lot of you guys are saying “If you think she’s some kind of lunatic fringe weirdo who doesn’t your religion, then call her out on it.” Well for many practical purposes, we practice completely different religions with completely different theologies. I said this earlier, but nobody noticed: Christianity is not a monolith at all, it is less a single religion with denominations and more a family of separate
            religions. Here is my admittedly lame analogy: not all Christians are living on the same planet. They only live around the same solar system. They revolve around the same sun (no pun intended) but otherwise are in distinctly separate orbits, and exist as different worlds. This isn’t a perfect analogy- Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Anglicanism could be considered on the same planet, but there’s no way you can convince me that Catholicism and
            Evangelicalism/Fundamentalism/Pentecostalism could be on the same planet. Radically different theologies, liturgies, spiritualities, ways of reading the bible, cultures, and so on. They really are not the same religion, and me and Cindy Jacobs do not really practice the same religion. Why would Cindy Jacobs care about what a Catholic has to say? She wouldn’t any more about what this mackerel snapper has to say than she would care about what an Atheist or a Buddhist has to say.

            Now a lot of you are probably thinking now: “That’s BS,
            different sects of Christianity are not that different. He’s just pulling that out of his rear end.” (Is profanity allowed here?) Well, let me bring up a couple examples. In many, but not all, pockets of the U.S., some parts of the southwest being a good example, Catholics are not considered Christians at all. You can be Christian (Protestant), or you can be Catholic. The two are seen as mutually exclusive. Likewise in Indonesia, a region where Christianity is rather new but quickly growing, Catholicism and Protestantism are legally considered two completely different religions. Protestants are just called Christians though, like the earlier example. Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism are not split into different religions, only
            Christianity. Doesn’t that strike you as odd? Maybe it’s because this majority Muslim country took one look at the Catholic and Evangelical missionaries and said “Uh, yeah, there’s no way those guys are actually part of the same
            religion. They are too different”. I believe that as Protestantism continues to get, in my opinion, weirder and weirder, and as more old-school Protestants continue to die out, people will increasingly not even bother to see Catholics and Protestants as part of the same religion.

            I feel that it’s necessary to bring this up, because I can’t
            help but shake the feeling that when you all responded to my comments, you all assumed that I was some kind of Protestant. I mean, that’s understandable. The U.S. is probably the global capital of Protestantism, and when you hear “Christian from the U.S.”, you think “evangelical. But there are also Catholics from the U.S., and they are very different from evangelicals (did you know that actual Catholics didn’t really care for Rick Santorum? I think it’s because he generally acted and talked more like an
            evangelical than an actual Catholic.) I mean, Catholics don’t exactly get a political party that represents them like Protestants: Evangelicas get the Republicans, liberal Protestants and non-religious get Democrats, Catholics get left in the middle (I’m not whining that we’re automatically entitled to a party, I’m just pointing out a social contrast). And even when you hear that someone is
            Catholic, you probably just assume that means Evangelicals with funny robes. I’m guessing you guys didn’t know that, unlike Evangelicals:

            -Catholics don’t believe in Creationism. They believe in
            evolution, and that the Creation in Genesis was a symbolic story. Don’t believe me? That’s weird, because in my Catholic high school our study of the creation
            story was one big rebuttal of Creationism.

            -Catholics don’t believe that non-Christians go to hell
            automatically.

            -Catholics are actually quite left-wing on a lot of issues,
            including: universal health care, immigration, government programs to help the poor, an aversion to wars that are not strictly justified (no 2003 invasion support, look it up).

            So this brings me to my final point, about biblical theology. JohnMWhite basically condensed all the arguments into one when he said:

            “That’s a convenient dodge, but I’m afraid it’s just not
            true. What you call reading Genesis in a ‘literalistic’ way is what everybody else calls reading Genesis. The Gospels also make it plain that Jesus was sent to redeem mankind from its sinful state that was caused by the fall of
            Adam. Even if you toss out Adam and Eve, you’ve still got a great big fiery pit that god set up for humanity to burn in if they don’t play by rules he deliberately made really hard for them to follow.”

            No, no, and no. That, my friend, is what Evangelicals call reading Genesis, and other Americans just shrug their shoulders and go along with it. A Question:
            Why do you assume that only the Evangelicals are right in their interpretations? I find them reactionary, devoid of tradition, and paper-thin. Is it because they are the easiest to attack (I don’t disagree that they are)? Catholics do not read Genesis that way, and we’ve been reading the Bible for a much longer time than they have. I’m not sure. And for your last part… odd. Again, that’s not how all Christians view the nature of sin and redemption. Hell isn’t really fiery, it’s not a matter of “playing by the rules” as turning your back on your fellow man and God, humanity is not just going to hell in a lump, and I would really like it if you could explain what you mean by saying that he deliberately made them hard to follow.

            So, this was a giant mess of a post. I’m not sure if I’ll
            respond like this again if I get 6-8 different responses again, because this was a pain.

            Also, how do you guys do italics and bold?

            • JohnMWhite

              To do italics, write (without any spaces) at the start of what you wish to italicize and then write (without the spaces) at the end to stop. For bold, us b instead of i.

              Now, for your post, perhaps we would have a more constructive discussion if you did not come across with a surly and combative attitude to everything people tell you. It is not ridiculous that you get six to eight responses, it is normal. You said something that people disagreed with, and they said so. It’s not up to us to hold our tongues so you do not get uncomfortable or overwhelmed, you are the one who decided to wade in to an atheist blog’s comment section and start saying things that are simply not true.

              I only hear that from people who are not Christians and who in fact seem to have a general bone to pick with Christians. But I guess the final reason why it looks like a slur to me is just the general tone with which it is used.

              You are deciding for yourself that because you haven’t come across it, the information given to you is therefore automatically wrong. Do you think the people here have never dealt with Christians before? Do you think that not a single one of us was Christian before? And you are also taking the tone to be other than that which was intended. In the first instance, that is an honest mistake. Now that it has been repeatedly pointed out to you what the term actually is being used for, you’re simply looking for things to get bent out of shape over. When I say you are clearly offended, it’s because you’re clearly offended. You wouldn’t be so determined to say that the use of the term Xtian is a slur if you hadn’t taken it to be a slur. This whole thing is silly, you could have just said “I thought that’s what you meant, now I see different, thanks,” but that would require acknowledging that other people might be right about something. I guess that won’t do if you are somebody who knows everything about Christian history, even if you only seem to refer to it after it has been mentioned by atheists.

              Christianity is not a monolith at all, it is less a single religion with denominations and more a family of separate
              religions

              And as has been pointed out to you numerous times, that family of religions has a very weird story at its core, so you all seem pretty weird to us.

              Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism are not split into different religions, only Christianity

              And here is where you lose me. This is just completely, 100% wrong. These religions are all significantly fractured just like Christianity. Not much point continuing this discussion until you go look this up, because the rest of what you have to say is largely putting your fingers in your ears and saying “no, no, no, Christianity is special, especially my Christianity!”

              And hell isn’t fiery? “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned” (John 15:6-8). Here is what I mean by god making the rules hard to follow on purpose: he gives man free will and curiosity and an inquiring mind and then decides that the only way to not go to hell is to believe in a magic zombie and avoid having sex with the wrong person or wearing the wrong type of clothes. It’s not really free will if your choice is “do what I tell you or suffer for eternity”. That’s like saying hostages have the freedom to stay down or get shot.

              Now I assume you’ll keep chasing your tail trying to argue that just because the bible has bits in it like Leviticus and the above quote from Jesus doesn’t mean that all Christians believe that, but here’s the core point: Christianity comes from the bible. The bible is where Christians get their idea of the existence of Jesus to begin with. The bible says things about Jesus and it says things about murdering gay people and it says things about god throwing people into a lake of fire for displeasing him. All you are doing with your line of argument is proving that none of these things are meaningful because you want to ignore the ones that are uncomfortable to face or don’t fit with your own model of Christianity. If hell isn’t fiery, Jesus isn’t real. If you want us to accept the bits about Jesus coming back from the dead, you have to let us point out that this book says the sins of the father transfer to the sons and ‘kooky’ Christians like the one described in the OP are actually reflections of Christianity.

            • Yoav

              Oh goody the worst Italian based criminal organization paraded as some model of morality.

              So your preferred version of christianity no longer believe the world is the center of the universe and is 6000 years old, good for them (BTW isn’t it amazing that what with having a leader with a direct line to the big guy upstairs they didn’t manage to figure that out until after secular scientists did), but they still believe a wizard is turning a cookie into human flesh on a regular basis.
              We don’t have to go as far back as the inquisition, during the 20th century the catholic church have been in bad with dictators from Franco and Mussolini to Haiti’s Duvalier.
              Then you have the enabling of child rape on a global scale, insisting that it’s better to let women die rather then terminate a pregnancy even if the embryo is already dead, as well as causing the death of millions in Africa by fighting against the use of condoms.
              So no catholicism is neither better connected to reality nor less harmful to society at large then the Cindy Jacobs variety of Xtianity.

        • ildi

          I hardly ever see it, except when it is being used by sneering atheists or pagans online.

          Actually, the X is used all the time by Xtians who use the fish symbol. Ichthys means “fish” in Greek, and is also an acronym for “Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ”, which translates into English as “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior” hence the secret sign.

        • kessy_athena

          Well, I can only speak for myself, but I see these fringe folks as basically being comic relief. They can be pretty funny sometimes. I’d tend to put them in the same category as, say, the really far out conspiracy theorists. I certainly don’t see them as representing anything other then a lunatic fringe.

          As for how people find out about them, remember, this is the internet, where a Japanese housecat named Maru can become an international celebrity by jumping into cardboard boxes… I’ve never encountered anything even remotely like these folks in the real world either, and would be totally gobsmacked if I did.

          re: Xtian. Actually, did you know that the word “Christian” itself originated as a slur in the Roman Empire? It was originally meant as a diminutive, sort of like, “look at all those little Christ wannabes running around.” There’s a long tradition of groups adopting slurs aimed against them and turning them into points of pride. Yankee is another example of that. In any event, I’ve never heard the term Xtian intended as a slur…

        • Noelle

          Xian is used by Xians. I used to use it while taking notes at my Xian college, where I also learned its Greek origins. No mind though, we’re always happy to teach a little Greek. Assuming a foreign and ancient abbreviation is meant to be an insult just because you don’t undestand it is a little presumptuous.

          As to never meeting your nuttier brethren, you gotta get out more. In my old liberal Xian upbringing, I also did not run into fundamentalists much. Then I did some Xian mixers in college, and wow. Those kids who thought the end of days were around the corner, that every answer to everything is literally in the Bible, the young women who believed their brothers in Christ would stumble if they didn’t dress in baggy clothes, that life is black and white instead of every shade of bright and living color, they’re there. If you care that they are the louder and more dangerous face of Christianity, and should not be the spokespeople for your religion, then for god’s sake man, speak up.

          I don’t believe in god because there is no god. I have no interest in insulting those decent human beings who do believe and are content to live and let live.

        • Artor

          You obviously aren’t Catholic, as they often have the Chi-Rho displayed prominently on their altar cloth. X as shorthand for Christ goes back as far as the origins of Xianity. You see it most often used in X-mas, but if you’re talking a lot about Xians, it’s worth using the shorthand, as it gets tiresome spelling out Christian over & over.
          But if you want to get butthurt over a common abbreviation that has historically been used by Xians themselves, that’s fine. Over here, we’re used to knowing more about Xianity than most Xians.

        • JohnMWhite

          Maybe it’s because I’m not an evangelical, but I DO live in the U.S. and I have never met a Christian like this.

          Have you turned on a TV?

          I would say no. That may be how -some- Christians interpret it, however. God only set a “trap” if you insist on reading Genesis in a literalistic or fundamentalist way. Creationism is a very reactionary thing and a lot of Christians have no interest in it. Christians aren’t a monolith, y’know. Honestly there’s so many wildly differing theologies that Christianity isn’t so much a religion as a family of religions.

          That’s a convenient dodge, but I’m afraid it’s just not true. What you call reading Genesis in a ‘literalistic’ way is what everybody else calls reading Genesis. The Gospels also make it plain that Jesus was sent to redeem mankind from its sinful state that was caused by the fall of Adam. Even if you toss out Adam and Eve, you’ve still got a great big fiery pit that god set up for humanity to burn in if they don’t play by rules he deliberately made really hard for them to follow.

          I hardly ever see it, except when it is being used by sneering atheists or pagans online.

          Where did you get the idea that people here are sneering at you, other than the fact they disagree with you?

    • JohnMWhite

      It’s not a slur, it’s a modifier or wildcard pulling triple duty as an abbreviation and a pun. The X denotes that there are a multitude of flavours of Christian (as in Windows 9x standing in for Windows 95, 95B, 98, 98SE, etc), while of course the X is a cross, symbol of Christianity, and a Greek letter that sounds a bit like ‘Christ’. That you leapt to the conclusion that atheists are slurring you and trying weakly (and yet clearly successfully) to offend you says more about you than the atheists posting at Patheos.

      A lot of these kind of stories come from things people stumble across as they traverse the Internet, or things they see on religious channels on TV or read in newspapers. If there is a database cataloging the silly stories of Christians saying weird things, the NSA probably has it, but we just find stuff out there because it’s all over the place. And you forget that from the perspective of an atheist or even someone of another religion, every Christian says weird things. ‘Repent for your bloodline’ isn’t exactly outside the biblical mainstream, it’s right there in black and white that the sins of the father transfer to the sons, and this is the same bible that mainstream Christians got their ideas from. Even the core idea of Christianity that a god became a human, died and came back to life specifically so he wouldn’t have to send everyone to the hell he created for them for using the free will he gave them to break the arbitrary moral code he set up for them to follow… that’s pretty weird.

    • Artor

      If you don’t know the origins of Xian, then you aren’t a very well-educated Xian. That might be why you haven’t heard of any of the Xian wingnuts before. It would do you well to understand what the people representing your faith as a whole are saying. If you don’t like it, then join the protest against them.


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