When Fundies Get Pathetic

I thought I’d let you in to a little bit of the routine of a moderator here on UF. Or maybe it’s just me who goes to these lengths, I don’t know. Anyway, this morning I logged in and saw this little icon:

Which is there to tell me that somebody’s awaiting moderation. This is pretty common, since all first commenters on the site have to be pre-moderated; it cuts down the spam you guys see and makes mods lives easier. This morning’s was a little bit special though. It wasn’t a comment chock full of links to buy ViagaBoutinTM Brand Combination Shoes/Male Enhancers, it was this:

Now, me, I’m a suspicious minded little bastid, and I think a lot of you probably are too. My first thoughts on reading this were:

1) No way am I approving that comment, and
2) I bet that’s a fundie setting up his own straw-man.

Happily, there is a very useful website where you can find out stuff like that: Pipl.com. I ran a quick search on his email address, and as it turns out, the guy has a YouTube account too. No videos, but my my my weren’t some of his comments on other people’s videos revealing! Here’s a selection:

Yeesh. Not only does this guy apparently want to set up his own argument, but he’s got such negative stereotypes of what it means to be an atheist, that he thought that comment wouldn’t be out of place on an atheist blog. This, my friends, is when fundies get pathetic.

Deconstructing Butt-hurt British Bigots

Today I want to analyse a story that I read on the BBC during my lunch break. It’s a story that… Well… It ground my gears. It’s a story about homophobic bigots who hide behind religion and claim that their intolerant, hate-filled bile is actually “morality”.

It’s this story. The basic theme is: Roman Catholic Bishop uses Christmas sermon to attack UK Gov plans to legally recognise gay marriage (as distinct from Civil Partnerships). I want to pick out some passages and pass my own (fair and unbiased as always) comments upon them.

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I’ll begin.

“Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols told the BBC the government had no mandate to push through same-sex marriage laws in England and Wales.”

This is a flat-out lie. A pretty well constructed Sunday Telegraph poll showed that 45% of respondents are in favour of gay marriage, 36% opposed and 19% undecided. The Telegraph has a conservative readership, so it should be noted that this means forty five percent of CONSERVATIVE British people support gay marriage. It’s no stretch at all to assume that the figure for liberals is close to 100%. This is strongly backed-up by a YouGov poll which found only 32% of respondents were opposed to gay marriage (including 15% who were also opposed to civil partnerships). A poll from Populus was completely unequivocal: 65% in favour of gay marriage, 27% opposed. The massively dishonest figure being quoted by the Roman Catholic Church is from this poll, in which the only question was whether respondents agreed with the statement “Marriage should continue to be defined as a life-long exclusive commitment between a man and a woman” – Note that the question doesn’t even mention same sex marriage and it’s fair to assume that not all of the respondents (if any) would have considered that to have been the point of the question. The only other poll showing a majority against same sex marriage is this one, which has perhaps the most hostile wording of any of the polls, a Likert Scale on the following statement: “Since gay and lesbian couples already have the same rights as married couples available to them under civil partnership, they should not be allowed to redefine marriage for everyone else”. I don’t think I need to point out why that study is bullshit to this audience. Moving on.

“Speaking in his sermon at Westminster Cathedral, Archbishop Nichols said “the love of husband and wife, which is creative of new human life, is a marvellously personal sharing in the creative love of God who brings into being the eternal soul that comes to every human being with the gift of human life”.

And verily, I say unto the Bishop: Prove it. Seriously, if he’s using that as the basis of an argument to deprive actual real human beings of legal rights, then I’d say he’s got a pretty strong duty to prove it first.

“During his interview, Archbishop Nichols said of the gay marriage plans: “There was no announcement in any party manifesto, no Green Paper, no statement in the Queen’s Speech. And yet here we are on the verge of primary legislation. ‘From a democratic point-of-view, it’s a shambles. George Orwell would be proud of that manoeuvre, I think the process is shambolic’.”

In the words of Bill Hicks: Fundamentalism breeds inability to grasp irony. The Catholic Church is an international cultish dictatorship. And yet their leader in England and Wales is criticising somebody else for being undemocratic. And it’s not even true. And he’s clearly never actually read any George Orwell books, or he’d know that Orwell would most certainly not be “proud” of any process that wasn’t democratic. Oh dear. This guy’s starting to look like a bit of an idiot, isn’t he?

“He claims during a ‘period of listening’, those who responded were ’7-1 against same-sex marriage’.”

I don’t know (though I can guess) who he was “listening” to, but I think I’ve already amply proven that it can’t have been a representative sample of the general public.

“The UK government has previously announced that the Church of England and Church in Wales will be banned in law from offering same-sex marriages, with other religious organisations able to “opt in” to holding ceremonies….

…Although the Church of England has opposed gay marriage and is expected to oppose the government’s bill, it has also said it was not consulted on a plan for the bill to include a specific ban on it conducting gay marriages. And the Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan, said he thought the ban was a “step too far”.

But Muslim leaders have called for the same legal exemptions as the Church of England in gay marriage legislation, with the Muslim Council of Britain saying it was “appalled” by the government’s “utterly discriminatory” proposals.”

A few observations here: I strongly suspect that not only were the CofE consulted on the legal prohibition, but that it was probably their own idea. CofE is the state religion of the UK, and disputes over ordination of women and openly gay priests, as well as over gay marriage, have threatened to tear it apart over the last decade. By banning them in law from conducting same-sex wedding ceremonies, UK Gov may well have been trying to prevent the church from schisming any further over what is (to them) a very divisive issue.

The irony of the CofE saying it doesn’t want the ban (I think that’s probably an outright lie), while some butt-hurt Muslims scream “BAN US! BAN US!” is just delicious. Of course, the cynic in me can’t help thinking that if Muslim congregations weren’t left the ability to legally opt-in, some would still be screaming that they were discriminated against; victim mentality is amusing to watch but ultimately pathetic.

And this raises a further point: The Roman Catholic Church does not have to perform gay marriages. The law is very clear that, in order to do so, not only would individual churches have to opt-in, but so would the entire Roman Catholic Church, from the Pope and the Vatican on down. And that’s why I find the Bishop truly despicable; he’s not complaining that he will be forced to do something against his religion (in fact he knows he won’t), he’s complaining that everybody who doesn’t share his religion, will have the right to disregard the rules of his religion.

To me, we’re in Dutch cartoon territory. This is the exact same thing as Muslims murdering people for not following uniquely Muslim edicts (don’t draw Muhammed). In both cases, my response is the same: You can follow whatever rules you choose to follow from your religion, but DO NOT think that you have any right to enforce them on anybody else.

I think that will do for now. It’s over to you lot to pick my thinking to pieces.

Mind Boggling Religious Rules

I’m guessing that most of our readers will be familiar with at least a few of the fairly brain numbing rules that Christianity dictates for its adherents, and I’m pretty sure we all know that all Christians are at best selective about which rules they follow and which they don’t. Leviticus’ instructions on making burnt offerings spring to mind as the obvious example. The Abrahamic religions all seem to have these little aberrations, so I set myself the task of finding the most bizarre set of religious rules I could.

Now, at this point I want to invite contributions in the comments section (please don’t use circumcision as an example, it’s too obvious), but before you do that I’d like you all to wrap your minds around this: Ladies and gentlemen, the rules laid down by Islam, concerning male ejaculation during periods of fasting!

” SEXUAL INTERCOURSE

Sexual intercourse invalidates the fast, even if the penetration is as little as the tip of the male organ, and even if there has been no ejaculation.

If the penetration is less than the tip of the male organ, so that it cannot be said that intercourse has taken place, also if no ejaculation takes place, the fast does not become invalid. This applies to both, circumcised and uncircumcised men.

If a person commits sexual intercourse intentionally and then doubts whether penetration was upto the point of circumcision or not his fast, as an obligatory precaution, becomes invalid, and it is necessary for him to observe its qadha. It is not, however, obligatory on him to give Kaffarah.

If a person forgets that he is observing fast and commits sexual intercourse or he is compelled to have sexual intercourse in a manner that makes him helpless, his fast does not become void. However, if he remembers (that he is observing fast) or ceases to be helpless during sexual intercourse, he should withdraw from the sexual intercourse at once, and if he does not, his fast becomes void.

MASTURBATION

If a person, who is observing fast, performs masturbation (Istimna), his fast becomes void (The explanation of istimna has been given in rule 1581/iii).

If semen is discharged from the body of a person involuntarily, his fast does not become void.

Even if a person observing fast knows that if he sleeps during the day time he will become Mohtalim (i.e. semen will be discharged from his body during sleep) it is permissible for him to sleep, even if he may not be inconvenienced by not sleeping. And if he becomes Mohtalim, his fast does not become void.

If a person who is observing fast, wakes up from sleep while ejaculation is taking place, it is not obligatory on him to stop it.

A fasting person who has become Mohtalim can urinate even if he knows that by urinating the remaining semen will flow from his body.

If a fasting person who has become Mohtalim, knows that some semen has remained in his body and if he does not urinate before taking Ghusl, it will come out after Ghusl, he should on the basis of recommended precaution, urinate before taking Ghusl.

A person who indulges in courtship with an intention to allow semen to be discharged, will complete his fast and also observe its qadha, even if semen is not discharged.

If a fasting person indulges in courtship without the intention of allowing the semen to be discharged, and also, if he is sure that semen will not be discharged, his fast is in order, even if semen may be discharged unexpectedly. However, if he is not sure about the discharge and it takes place, then his fast is void. ” Source

Glossary of terms:

“Istimna” – Cuffing one off.
“Mohtalim” – Having a wet dream.
“Ghusl” – Taking a bath. Only it’s a ritual bath.

I know it’s childish, but I did giggle about this one! So come on (no pun intended), readers: Find me some weirder religious rules. Bonus points if they’re rules that are actually observed.

Stay classy, Eric Hovind.

I’m just going to let this tweet speak for itself.

What. The. FUCK.

Don’t tread on me!

Sometimes an image sums something up so beautifully that I just have to share it :-)