Tim Minchin, The Pope Song, and offense.

Christina here…

So, Tim Minchin performed The Pope Song at the National Mall, which has about a million people upset, because his song contained, er… a “few” expletives and said some bad things about the pope. The message of the song is clear from the lyrics, and is brilliantly written, in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Of course, people don’t get it. Here’s one of many examples, an exchange on twitter.

Okay, so I can see an argument for not saying “fuck” an absurdly frequent number of times in a song played publicly at the National Mall – no matter what the message of the song. Freedom of speech is awesome, but perhaps some venues are more appropriate than others.  I don’t say “fuck” while working with one of my clients in their home (unless they do, then I might), for example. Maybe you don’t want your kids to hear that. Especially if they are at the perfect age to think “motherfucker” is an awesome name to call all of the other kids on the playground the next day at school.

The Pope Song is obviously about the pope, in case that wasn’t clear.

However, the actions of the Vatican, who made it a matter of public policy to protect and shelter child rapist priests while covering their actions is revolting, orders or magnitude more revolting than any repeated expletive should be.  So my response:

 

 

I don’t know what this tweeter means by his first sentence. As to the second – Who has more class, a guy who sings an expletive-laden song at the National Mall for all to hear, or a guy who fails to act against a known pedophile priest?   A guy who says, “fucking” frequently or a guy who allows a priest who molested boys to resume pastoral duties after therapy? A dude who calls the Pope’s hat “stupid”, or a guy who halts a secret church trial for a pedophile priest who admitted to molesting boys after that priest begs him?

The answer is clear to me: a guy cussing has much more class than a guy who cover for child rapists.

Sorry, but if you cover up the abuse of one single boy, you are, as Minchin put it:

If you cover for another motherfucker who’s a kiddie fucker
Fuck you you’re no better then the mother fucking rapist
And if you don’t like this swearing that this motherfucker forced from me
And reckon it shows moral or intellectual paucity
Then fuck you motherfucker, this is language one employs
When one is fucking cross about fuckers fucking boys

So, I say:

and Possum says:

Sorry, the Pope is still a worse guy.

 

Yes, and just because you can molest boys and have the Vatican shelter you, doesn’t mean you should, either. Which is my point, and which was the point of the song.

Even if I were a fucking idiot, I would be moral and ethical enough to know that raping children harms them far more than having them listen to a song with a whole lot of expletives. But perhaps I’m totally morally bankrupt, and don’t realize the lifelong psychologically damaging effect 80-ish utterances of the f-word in a 2 minute span can have on the growing mind of a child. Maybe The Pope Song does hurt more than a child being molested by the men his family taught him to trust, men who claim moral superiority over everyone else, men who must be obeyed due to their sanctity.

Maybe I don’t get it because I don’t have children. Maybe bad words are like invisible lightning bolts of evil, radiating through the child’s body and causing irreparable damage and turning them into atheists who will burn in hell, and I won’t find out about this big secret until I spawn.

Pedophiles in congress and Hollywood, when caught, go to jail. That’s the difference.

Also, Barney Frank did not rape any children… he’s gay. That means he fucks adult men.

I’m not a mother, but any organization engaged in the systematic cover up and protection of child abusers will be kept far, far away from my future children (should I decided to make some), and I cannot support such an organization in any capacity. I don’t understand anyone who would, especially after having had their trust in such an organization betrayed. Such an organization deserves nothing but contempt. I say that because I care about my fellow human beings.

p.s. I should mention that Possum and I continued our conversation for days on Twitter.

p.p.s. I love the sign language interpreter at the Reason Rally, flipping the bird to everyone.

Learn more about Christina and follow her @ziztur.

About christinastephens
  • Art Vandelay

    That’s funny…I saw Minchin in Providence a few months ago and ended up getting a chance to talk with him after his show. As you’d probabaly expect from recent events that have taken place in Rhode Island, a Minchin show doesn’t exactly sell out here. We suck so bad. So I was telling him that I wish’d he’d gotten a better turnout but my state is full of liberal catholics (Kennedy complex) who have no problem whatsoever supporting a church that fights in extreme opposition to their political beliefs, and the irony is that they’re offended by him but they’ll all get up the next morning to happily go fund an organization effectively on trial for crimes against humanity for the systematic rape and cover-up of thousands of children. So he said he was going to write a song called “Fuck the Liberal Catholics from Rhode Island.”

    • Reba

      Art, was looking for a different pope song & your post popped up. Ditto for Pennsylvania excepting 2 trials involving the Philly archdiocese: a msgr. who covered for 64 known pedophile priests, 24% of the number serving there, is in jail, setting precedent for enforcement, along with the chief financial officer who embezzled about a mil. Kudos to PA’s outgoing state attorney general & co-counsels because their paychecks were worth our taxes. The coverup for pedophiles is not unique to that issue alone; the church covers up other crime as well, especially financial. When the Milwaukee archdiocese was hit with what came down on Philadelphia, they simply diverted money and filed for bankruptcy, a fraud crime.
      It’s a year later now and looks like a pope repeat with francis, bennie having abdicated with billions in pedophile liability issues & consideration for crimes against humanity in international court (after all the vatican is a country), so an election for a new conehead is a diversionary tactic. I’m a cradle Catholic who “gets it” and I’m horrified at the abuse of God as a front for crimes against children (see Luke 17:2 or Matthew 18:6). Attempts to trump criminal justice systems with canon law have gone on for centuries with whiners saying that good works overcome pedophilia. Here’s the truth: good works in the millions will not atone for one crime against a child because that sin is not forgiveable: “better a millstone be tied around the neck”.
      How about this: a pedophile priest rapes a child, then takes the victim into the confessional so the child, thinking he has sinned, asks the damned criminal for forgiveness. Some comments from elderly church ladies in an adjoining parish: “Those kids asked for it.” These people are as perverted as the pedophiles they protect, and they’ll object to profanity(?) so I’ll make a point: the church put this upon it’s ‘conscientious objectors’, and by standing in the piles of pedophile priest doo-doo, supporters become baby-fuckers by association. Tim Minchin might want to replace “mother” with “baby”, it might be more accurate in certain sequences, and I got tired with the repetitiveness but it probably mirrors the psyche of a powerless parent who cannot rebuild a broken child, and they are in the hundreds of thousands (the typical male offender molests an average of 117 youngsters, most of whom do not report the offense. – http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html) .
      Pedophile priest supporters might look to the case of the Texas father who caught a pedophile assaulting his little girl and killed the bastard. The community acquitted him. If Pope lyric objectors want to get serious, they might try an accurate bumper-sticker like: “Catholics for Baby-Fuckers” and see how far this gets ‘em in real time.
      It looks like “the cure” has to come from the outside-in, with artists, the public, and civil and criminal law doing the right thing, so despite profanity, thanks Tim. Lastly, “Mea Maxima Culpa” gives perspective, showing the severe degree of frustration and pain that results in profane expression, certainly the lesser of the evils.

  • http://www.reason-being.com reasonbeing

    It seems to me that the tweeters are confusing the two issues. Was Minchin’s continued use of the word “fuck” inappropriate for young listeners? Maybe. Perhaps conventional wisdom would argue probably. However, to possibly equate that with child rape and the cover-up of child rape is ludicrous. They are apples and oranges. The first may be offensive to some, the second is a crime. The first case results in “Jeez, I don’t want my kids to hear that”. The second results, in “Get my kids as far away as possible from those fuckers!” Not the same thing. Anyone who could argue that the behavior of (at the minimum) the last two Popes is at all in the same league as Minchin’s song is not thinking clearly.

    • PossumRoadkill

      I never equated “that with child rape and the cover-up of child rape” . See my post below.

  • Molly

    I, for one, will count dancing and singing “fuck the pope,” with a few thousand of my closest friends on Saturday as one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

  • http://haphazardhermit.blogspot.com/ michaeld

    Now I really want to make a who is more vulgar game :P With young person affected by the event swearing up a storm on one side and the people committing atrocities on the other dressed as old timey gentlemen with canes and monocles.

  • iknklast

    Great article. As a mother (my son is 30 now, but he wasn’t born that way – Thank FSM!), I can say that there is no magical something that happens when you become a mother that changes you from a morality that sees protecting child raping priests as less reprehensible than saying the F word repeatedly in front of your young, impressionable child. He is going to hear the F word, and probably often, throughout his young life (usually from his parents first!). Why protect him from that? With luck, he will NOT be raped by a trusted family friend – because any parent with any decent regard for their child will protect him/her from that. My son heard the F word frequently, because it floats in the air around us all the time. As far as I can tell, he has not been harmed by that experience.

    He is, however, an atheist, so perhaps that person is right, if one considers it harmful to be an atheist (and I suppose if you believe in hell, you will have to consider that harm). However, I spend a great deal of my day around people who are Christians, even some who are fundamentalist young-earth creationists, and I hear the F word from them on a regular basis. Go figure.

    • PossumRoadkill

      I honestly hate to tell you this. I have a lot of friends who are police. They tell me that your son is more likely to be the victim of a sexual abuse from a family member (uncle, cousin etc.) than by a priest or preacher. I am not saying that it does not happen because it does. It’s happened in the town I live, not a priest but a youth minister. So I get that. But your son is probably in more danger from a family member or family friend than you might want to believe. Still, that was not my point and if you are OK with your son hearing the word Fuck from his mother, then far be it for me to object to that. Let’s hope he uses the word responsibly.

      • iknklast

        My son DID NOT hear the F word from his mother; he heard it from the whole world around him. And yes, he is much more likely to be molested by someone not his priest, etc, BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER GONE TO CHURCH. That alone would be a given of a child who is raised outside the church.

        Meanwhile, you’re missing the point totally. There is NO WAY to protect your child from hearing the F word, unless you home school, keep your kid from going to non-Disney movies, don’t let him watch cable TV or surf the Internet, and refuse to allow him to have any friends. Not worth it, IMHO. I’d rather he was a normal kid. And he was. And now he’s an OK 30 year old who somehow managed to grow up sane in spite of having heard some words of questionable repute.

        • PossumRoadkill

          No I don’t believe I am. It’s one thing for your kid to hear the work spoken by his peers at school, or in a movie or in a song on his mp3 player and to hear it over thousands of watts of PA system in a place that many of us feel should be above that kind of language even if it has happened before. You know, I would be OK with it if it were just a couple times in the song but that many times is just rubbing it in. Why? because he can.

          • tab

            No, that many times is because that’s the way the song goes. He didn’t specially write it for this event and he shouldn’t have to compromise his art to kowtow to prudery.

          • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

            “Above that kind of language.” Yes, because saying naughty words is so, so awful. Let’s wring our hands about that, instead of, you know, focusing on the message of the song, which is that the RCC is the world’s largest pedophile organization.

            Fucking please.

      • iknklast

        Oh, and I’m well aware of the risk from family members. After all, I was myself raped by my brother. I kept my son away from him. But my brother never used foul language of any sort, and is, in fact, a total prude, busy policing everyone else’s behavior. So I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, anyway. It’s irrelevant.

        • PossumRoadkill

          I brought it up because of this comment you made “With luck, he will NOT be raped by a trusted family friend” . And now I know that you do understand and for that I am truly sorry.

      • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

        To religious families, clergy are often trusted family friends, which is how pedophile clergy gain the trust of the child.

        Let’s hope he uses the word responsibly.

        Oh, for fuck’s sake. Prudes like you grant all sorts of powers to profanity that it simply doesn’t have. “The F-bomb” has to be one of the most fucking ridiculous and prudish euphemisms ever.

        • PossumRoadkill

          Oh for fuck’s sake take a pill, have a drink, do some deep breathing, meditation, smoke a joint, bang your head against a wall, or whatever the fuck it is that calms you the fuck down. You are way to fucking angry and it’s going to shorten your life. Stress kills.

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

            *passes a loaded bong to PK*

            Take your own advice, man, and chill the fuck out. You’re the one who has their tail in a knot over a WORD.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unequallyyoked/ Leah @ Unequally Yoked

    It wasn’t just twitter, a lot of the press coverage harped on how ‘offensive’ and ‘angry’ speakers were without discussing why they were angry or acknowledging that some of the offence was tactical, not spleenic (cf Minchin above and Dawkins’s ‘contempt’ comment in its original context).

    • Jag

      I’m with Molly @ #5, except I was with my (adult) son.

      FTR, that same adult son grew up hearing me use the same language and he turned out just fine. So fine, in fact, that he came halfway across the country with me to go to a rally and stand in the rain and tell the world that human rights take precendence over BS religious fairy tales.

      • Jag

        Sorry, I messed up with my comment placement – this wasn’t intended to be a reply to Leah.

        At work, must stop screwing around now…

    • PossumRoadkill

      Your article/blog is really interesting. I’m still reading through the comments section. Good discussion.

      As to this part, “challenge religious people but to “ridicule and show contempt” is just not a good tactic to use. Have the more angry and combative comments on here effectively changed my views? No, not at all. Made me laugh like hell though. What did work? We’ll see.

      I do think this comment is something I can agree with.
      “I think both Dawkins speech and Minchin’s song are bad tactics, since, as demonstrated by the clips above, they’re easy to (willfully or accidentally) misinterpret as pure nastiness.

      Thanks for linking to this blog.

  • I’m_not

    In what circumstances were the song played? Exclusively to an expectant audience or to random strangers walking by? I fucking love that motherfucking song and that fucker Tim motherfucking Minchin too.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/gardenofboyo FredSamBoyo

      Pretty much to a receptive audience. He was towards the end of his set (this and I think “Storm” were the last two he performed), and by that point, the audience was close to its peak.

    • PossumRoadkill

      Yes it was played to a specific audience attending a rally. However, from this image http://bit.ly/HwgqqJ you can see that this is a large geographic area that contains monuments and museums where people were visiting with their families. Since the song was played over a PA system at an open air event, it was heard by everyone in the area.

  • darksmurf

    I was at the Reason Rally basically just to hear Tim Minchin perform that song. That guy is awesome.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unequallyyoked/ Leah @ Unequally Yoked

      I was there to hear “If I Didn’t Have You”

      • PossumRoadkill

        Very clever lyrics.

  • Godlesspanther

    I vote we dump the Star Spangled Banner and make the Pope Song the national anthem of the USA.

    • PossumRoadkill

      Why not “Ten Foot Cock And A Few Hundred Virgins”? It hits not only all the major religions, but the fringe “new age” beliefs as well. Cause you know, if you’re going to purge religion from this country then you have to purge all religion and pseudo religions as well. Right? Because you have to be consistent in our non-beliefs.

      • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

        Sing it! “God…bless a Ten foot cock…”

        • PossumRoadkill

          Needs more cowbell…..

  • backin15

    I have argued this in the past. A friend was offended that her teenager would hear it. I pointed out the meaning and also that it is my opinion that all words can be bad words when used as an insult, but none are otherwise. I think you handled this well, as you usually tend to. ;)

    • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

      That her teenager would hear it? Yes, I’m certain ickle Schnookums’ virgin ears have never, ever been sullied by a four-letter word…

  • Thomas True

    I really enjoyed the song and felt that it was the perfect place to have the freedom of speech highlighted, between the Washington Monument and the US Capital on the National Mall surrounded by all the buildings of science and art and facts of the Smithsonian Institute.

    Anyone who was offended should have left, like the so called “missionaries”. I don’t think the adults with young children were really offended. It was a good learning moment.

    • PossumRoadkill

      “Anyone who was offended should have left, like the so called “missionaries”. I don’t think the adults with young children were really offended.” So you are saying that anyone who does not share your non-beliefs should just leave a public area paid for by their tax dollars as much as yours? Really? Wow that is pretty arrogant. That would be like me saying that since you don’t believe like I do (in an invisible man in the sky) that you should just leave. Leave the mall, leave the city, state, Country? How outraged would you be if I said that? Hell I would be outraged if someone said that. How do you know that the adults with their children who were at one of the many other attractions within the sound of Munchin’s song were not offended? Did you take a poll? Did you interview random strangers? What an odd and offensive thing to say. I would think that saying something like this should offend everyone on this blog.

      • http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd Christina

        Honestly, I don’t think anyone very far outside the event itself could have heard much of it. I had a hard time hearing anything going on about halfway to the port-o-potties, which were standing in a row sort of marking off the event.

        I also couldn’t hear very well near the event tent.

        So, I don’t believe there was any way for people to hear the event as far as the museums, or even the sidewalk past the port-o-potties. For whatever that’s worth. Mostly you had to be AT the event, or at least curious enough to get close to the crowds.

        • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

          Christina, you’re getting sucked into his delusion. He’s not concerned about tender ears hearing dirty words, he’s concerned that “liberals” get to say dirty words he otherwise loves to say himself, without any recriminations. That’s because his religious upbringing looks askance on the use of scatological words that smack of sex. Like fuck. Tender ears should not be exposed to those words, because next time they they hear “fuck” they’ll want to do “fuck”, and god doesn’t like that, unless it’s in the heterosexual state of marital bliss.

          The kids that heard it were brought there by free thinking parents who would have handled any problem in an appropriate manner. There’s really no problem unless you are a religious prude.

          • PossumRoadkill

            You are assuming many things. Who said I had a religions upbringing? My Grandmother was very religious but not my Grandfather. My Mother and Father became religious after I left home at 18. My younger sister always was, my older sister also later in life. Where did I say that I am religious? I may believe in God or that there is something beyond this mortal life, but what I believe is my business and like your choices in life, for me to decide.

      • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

        I get pretty fucking offended when pro-liars, tea crackers, and other right-wingers converge on the mall, but I don’t get any say about that shit.

  • http://snarkyhumanist.blogspot.com MadScutter

    I was standing in the grass off to the side when this song started. Standing directly in front of me was a woman with a young boy (6 to 8 maybe). When Tim started in on the song, her hands flew up to cover her son’s ears. When Tim would get to some less “offensive” lyrics, the hands would drop away. And then almost immediately shoot back up. She kept this up through the whole song.

    Not once did she stop laughing.

    If we had brought our son (8yrs), I probably would have been doing the same thing. ;-)

    Sure, it may not be the most appropriate language for young kids. However, it is the way it is to make just that point. This is one of those times when it seems to me like you really have to TRY not to get the point. If the language of the song is that offensive to you, then how are you not frothing at the mouth with rage that the Pope could cover for these loathsome creatures and shelter THEM from prosecution!?

    • PossumRoadkill

      ” then how are you not frothing at the mouth with rage that the Pope could cover for these loathsome creatures and shelter THEM from prosecution!?” I am and I also feel the same way about members of Congress who do the same and it’s covered up by other members. I feel the same about the Hollywood actors and musicians who do the same thing and people cover it up and then glorify them as brilliant artists. Can you show me one place on this blog where you people take the same stance against these people?

      • PossumRoadkill

        I should add that I appreciate you sharing this story.

        “I was standing in the grass off to the side when this song started. Standing directly in front of me was a woman with a young boy (6 to 8 maybe)…..”

  • Mojo Hand

    Hmm, I dunno. Seems like a “yes but this guy is worse” argument. Tim Minchin has dozens of brilliant songs, and maybe he didn’t think there would be any kids in the audience, but there were, and I think he could have exercised a little discretion here. If I’d had my kids there I’d have been a little peeved. Hearing the word doesn’t do them “harm” harm, but it is a rude word that I don’t need to be repeated to their teachers. My favorite quote from Kinky Friedman is “I always try not to say fuck when there’s a C-H-I-L-D in the room.” It’s often a good policy.

    • http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/ Stephanie Zvan

      No. I want kids to hear that song. I want them to know that this is the kind of thing we swear over. I want them to know that not only is anyone who does this sort of things to kids the kind of person we swear at and over, but that anyone who doesn’t help children in that situation is as well.

      Kids deserve that knowledge. Fuck the words it comes in.

      • Molly

        Bava. Nicely said!

      • Molly

        Brava. Nicely said!

      • http://considertheteacosy.wordpress.com Aoife

        Abso-fucking-lutely.

    • PossumRoadkill

      “My favorite quote from Kinky Friedman is “I always try not to say fuck when there’s a C-H-I-L-D in the room.” It’s often a good policy.” Thanks for sharing the quote. I really like Kinky Friedman. He would have been a blast as Governor.

      • Rob

        He was a fucking asshole.

        Don’t have kids? You’re officially the purse of the government.

  • Molly

    I think that the genius of this particular bit of brilliant satire is that Tim KNEW that there are quite a lot of people in the world who would go “He said THAT WORD? About THE HOLY FATHER POPE BENEDICT XVI?!” And, thus, become a shining beacon of an example of exactly what the song is about.

    • Art Vandelay

      Exactly…and of course they went for it, hook, line, and simker.

    • PossumRoadkill

      “I think that the genius of this particular bit of brilliant satire is that Tim KNEW ” Why is it that you get it here but when I say it’s the shock value that he was using you act like I’m the enemy? Oh, I get it. I am the enemy! To you I’ll always be the enemy.

      • Molly

        It’s not just pure shock value though. It’s actually a very clever way of devaluing the word. With every repetition of the F-word, it loses a little bit of it’s power.

        But it seems silly to go on banging on a long dead horse. Especially since the very best defense of the song is in the song itself:

        “And if you look into your motherfucking heart and tell me true
        If this motherfucking stupid fucking song offended you
        With its filthy fucking language and its fucking disrespect
        If it made you feel angry go ahead and write a letter
        But if you find me more offensive than the fucking possibility
        The pope protected priests when they were getting fucking fiddly
        Then listen to me motherfucker, this here is a fact
        You are just as morally misguided as that motherfucking
        Power-hungry, self-aggrandised bigot in the stupid fucking hat”

        And with that, I’m leaving this discussion. I’m bored with it.

        Peace, Love, and Fuck the Pope!

      • Rob

        No you’re not always the enemy.

        Lose your delusions, then you won’t be. You not getting rid of your delusions is entirely on your shoulders. You’re the only one making yourself always the enemy.

        • PossumRoadkill

          I don’t have any delusions. I’m not looking to be converted, recruited, included, deluded, pigeonholed or wrapped in plastic and shipped to Timbuktu.

          “You not getting rid of your delusions is entirely on your shoulders.”

          Yes it is. I am the only person who controls what I think or believe. I am accountable for myself and my actions and words.

          “You’re the only one making yourself always the enemy.”

          That was a mechanism to elicit a response. It must have worked.

      • J. J. Ramsey

        I think what Tim Minchin was doing was somewhat similar to what Tony Campolo did when he said, “I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

  • http://jbzero.blogspot.com J.B.

    so let me get this straight:
    potty mouth ditty singer = stool sample
    protector of child rapists = class act?
    whafuck?
    This guy probably believes:
    saw a boob on T.V. = kid screwed up for life
    heard f-bomb by someone other than his parents, or the kid down the street = serial killer
    inundated with violent language against women and rape culture = totes fine.

    Some days I just can’t bang my head hard enough to find some semblance of empathy for these people.

  • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

    You know, there is a subtext in Minchins’s brilliant song, beyond the obvious message involving the Pope. It’s that the word “fuck” is just a peculiar combination of 4 letters of the alphabet, and that words like that are nothing, innocuous nothings no less, compared to child rape by men in spiritual authority. “Sticks and stones” and all that.

    We’d be much better off if we removed the taboo from the word by teaching children at a very young age that it is taboo to some people, that perhaps one should use discretion in company who’s feelings are unknown, but that in fact it’s just a word. It’s not bad, it’s not evil, it doesn’t really hurt anyone who doesn’t want to be hurt by it.

    That particular lesson could have been taught quite effectively by every parent at the rally using the song in progress as the example. And every child would have been better off as a result. It’s only the tight-ass puritans like PossamRoadKill who psychologically damage their children by pretending the word is harmful.

    • PossumRoadkill

      You know you are right in that the parents could teach their kids the correct usage of the word and that it is just a work and not something to fear. Like maybe the word God? But I really do agree with you on this. The world would be a better place if words were just words and they didn’t hurt anyone. As for me being a ” tight-ass puritan”, see below.

  • PossumRoadkill

    Touche Christina! My new BFF ! Thanks for the invite to comment on your blog. What you didn’t tell your blog following in the above piece was the real reason for my disgust for what Mr. Munchin did or the reason for my angry tone in my tweets. Christina’s re-tweeting of my original tweet to my friends prompted an entire army of Atheists to attack me on Twitter. Most I chose to ignore because they contained a continual flood of the F word (Fuck not friend). There were three people who I did respond to @BrewingDad @broken_cynic @ziztur. Feel free to read the entire exchange on Twitter. I’ve deleted nothing, although some of the tweets to me have since gone away. Hmmmm. My point about this entire issue is to me it was not about the Pope (meaning of the song) but the content of the language (FUCK), where (National Mall) and how (over PA system) it was performed and who (little kids) was in the audience. Should the word Fuck be sang dozens of time over a PA system on the National Mall with a lot of little kids in the audience with their parents? First off the word in question, Fuck. Christina, I assume that since you used it in your blog it’s OK for me to use it here. I love that word. I use it every fucking day. I check my fucking pulse to make sure I’m alive if I find that I’ve not said it at least once before I’ve left for work. Such a fucking useful word, LOVE IT. But just because you have the right to say it over a PA on the National Mall with a bunch of little kids in the audience, should you? I guess my Midwestern upbringing taught me that you don’t do things like that. You could say that in the locker room, in a bar to your buddies, or to some asshole who cut you off in traffic, even a blog full of Atheists, but not in front of little kids, your Mom, or Grandmother. I guess that’s because you know from experience that the little kid is going to ask their parents what the word means. DO you really want to have that conversation with your little sister as to why her little girl is asking what Uncle Possum means when he says the word Fuck. Do I really want my mom to slap the fuck out of me on Thanksgiving day? Do I really want to give my Granmother a heart attack. Do I have the right to say it. Sure do. Do they know the word? Probably. Is it proper? Not in all cases. This I feel was one of them. He could have just sang a different song and gave a little talk about why he hates the Pope and the Catholic Church. Not being a Catholic, I’m not here to defend the Pope. He has a lot of people to do that. I understand Mr. Munchin’s attacks on the Pope, although I thought it was the last Pope that all this happened under. But if you want to blame this Pope you have every right to do so even though he may never have assaulted a child himself. I think the problem exists further down the chain of command. But you should also be just as outraged as to the same kind of stuff going on in Congress and Hollywood. Can you say Mark Foley or Roman Polanski? Yeah those two deserve a special place in Hell. Oh sorry, you don’t believe in that place. Which bring me to another point that Christina and my other two Twitter guests were getting around to but we will take that up later if they feel up to it. Thanks for your time. I’m sure you all hate the fuck out of me. That’s OK, I have all the friends I need.

    • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

      Actually, it was this Pope. He was the Cardinal in charge of the coverup before he became Pope. The College of Cardinals elevated him to his current office despite that, upon the death of Pope John Paul II.

      • PossumRoadkill

        Then I stand corrected. Not being there at the time he was elevated, I don’t know what was discussed. But I’m sure that he is a monster if you say so, right?

        • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

          I wouldn’t base my opinion of the Pope on what you say, so I wouldn’t expect you to do the same on what I say.

        • tab

          “But I’m sure that he is a monster if you say so, right?”
          You do realize that it’s been pretty widely publicized that THIS pope was directly involved in the coverups right? It’s not just this one person saying it. You’re attempting to use your own personal ignorance of the facts to demean someones actually factual statement.

          • http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd Christina

            That’s why I provided those links up there in the original post.

          • PossumRoadkill

            “You’re attempting to use your own personal ignorance of the facts to demean someones actually factual statement.”

            ” Christina says:
            March 29, 2012 at 4:57 pm
            That’s why I provided those links up there in the original post.”

            The articles were dated March 26th and one is from a UK website. I had not seen this story yet. So yes I can honestly say I didn’t know about this. Not being Catholic, I don’t hang on the Pope’s every word or read every article about him as you apparently do. It does also point out that these are allegations, not factual statements as you allege. Where is the rule of law? It also states that the actual molester is now dead. That certainly complicates things. Do you really think that the Catholic Church will give up the Pope? It’s like I told you last night Christina, “The powerful protect the powerful and screw everyone else. ” Do you really think that 1.8 billion Catholics are just going to turn him over? Do you really think that someone will produce anything irrefutable that will actually tie him to this crime? Not any more than any Imam will ever turn in a single Muslim who commits an honor killing or a husband that burns his wife with acid because of his belief that he not only could but should. Where do you guys stand on that? I’m new to your blog, maybe you can guide me to where you covered that.

          • http://www.facebook.com/ziztur Christina

            Also, regarding Muslims/Islam, we have covered that.

            Not nearly to the extent that we cover the dominant religion in our country. This has patently little to do with fear and everything to do with what affects us directly.

            You could use that search button at the top and type in “islam” or “muslim”. You could also do the same to my old blog (www.ziztur.com), or JT’s old blog (http://wwjtd.net/).

            I did it for you and found some. There are probably more but I think you get the picture:

            http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/03/05/the-answer-fatwa-envy/
            http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/02/22/judge-rules-against-atheist-attacked-in-costume-by-muslim/
            http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2011/11/02/muslims-burn-building-over-cartoon/

    • iknklast

      ” I guess my Midwestern upbringing taught me that you don’t do things like that.”

      I was brought up in the midwest; I live in the Midwest. I am regularly subjected to midwestern US prudery, usually coming from people who get all uptight when someone says the F word, even though they say it themselves 30 times a day.

      I think we need to do everything we can to challenge the prigs, prudes, prostitutes, and pimps that we all encounter among the puritans everyday. The same people who refuse to allow someone to use the word “feces” (yes, that F word horrifies students in my biology classes!) and who don’t think we should discuss contraception, human reproduction, or anything else that they feel uncomfortable with will go down to the cafeteria, a much more public place than the classroom, and drop the F bomb everywhere. They are watching the R rated movies. They are posting lousy language on Facebook and Twitter. And many of these parents are routinely dropping F bombs around their children, even very young children.

      I don’t use the F word much myself, because I think overusing a word strips it of power, so I reserve it for when I really need it. But I am tired to death of people who use the allegation of dirty language as a blunt weapon to beat other people over the head with, prudes who can’t stand to hear other people say what they say themselves, and always use the young children as an excuse.

      I was brought up in a prudish home where we weren’t allowed to say “Golly” or “Gee Whiz”. The F word was absolutely verboten. Still, I heard it regularly at school, where my parents were unable to be close at hand to explain when words are OK and when they’re not. Which would you rather have? The ability to explain the words to your kids, or your kids reading the words in graffitti or hearing them on the playground, and you don’t know they’ve ever heard it until they pop the word off someday in front of your great-aunt Bertha?

      Let’s put an end to faux prudery, OK?

      • PossumRoadkill

        If you knew me, really knew me, you would understand that I say what I want, when I want and to whom I want, and I mean what I say. Fuck your “faux prudery”.

        • iknklast

          Perhaps you missed my point. Faux prudery is what I used to refer to people who say what they want when they want, and then go all moralistic when other people do the same.

          • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

            You mean…like Tim Minchin? ;)

            Yea, PRk sort of refuted himself when he claimed he loves the word, uses it all the time, just doesn’t think kids should hear it. Is it a bad word, or a good word? Is there such a thing as a bad word, or simply one perceived as bad? And do you keep kids from hearing the word because they aren’t old enough to understand all it’s connotations? If that the case, there are thousands of words they don’t understand until they get old enough and mature enough, so let’s ban them too. Ask a child what “mellifluous” means. Or “disingenuous”. They need to be older to know those words and to understand them.

            But how will they learn the proper use of language, especially common language like “fuck”, unless they hear the words and are given the proper education and guidance to understand them?

            It’s like expecting children to understand human reproduction when they have their first sexual encounter, without any prior sex education. We know where that leads.

    • http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/ Stephanie Zvan

      But you should also be just as outraged as to the same kind of stuff going on in Congress and Hollywood. Can you say Mark Foley or Roman Polanski?

      We are. Why would you ever think we’re not? On the other hand, no one is trying to tell us that what those fuckers do is sanctioned by God. We’re a bit extra pissed about that part, and I can’t imagine why we wouldn’t be.

      You could say that in the locker room, in a bar to your buddies, or to some asshole who cut you off in traffic, even a blog full of Atheists, but not in front of little kids, your Mom, or Grandmother.

      My mom and my grandmother are/were adults who were perfectly capable of dealing with the full range of human language. Kindly don’t compare them to children.

      I guess that’s because you know from experience that the little kid is going to ask their parents what the word means. DO you really want to have that conversation with your little sister as to why her little girl is asking what Uncle Possum means when he says the word Fuck.

      Excellent. Any opportunity for another bit of sex education is a good thing.

      • PossumRoadkill

        “We are. Why would you ever think we’re not?”
        And where would that be? Please provide the link so I can join you in condeming that behavior.

        “My mom and my grandmother are/were adults who were perfectly capable of dealing with the full range of human language. Kindly don’t compare them to children.”

        Once again I didn’t. If you want to twist my words that way you will no matter what I say.

        “Excellent. Any opportunity for another bit of sex education is a good thing.”
        That wouod depend on how old my neice is and would be up to her mother.

    • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

      You could say that in the locker room, in a bar to your buddies, or to some asshole who cut you off in traffic, even a blog full of Atheists, but not in front of little kids, your Mom, or Grandmother.

      You’re assuming that nobody’s mother or grandmother is an atheist, an asshole, or someone who says “fuck” a lot.

      • PossumRoadkill

        You’re assuming that nobody’s mother or grandmother is an atheist, an asshole, or someone who says “fuck” a lot.

        Yeah, especially the “asshole” part. Does the phrase “it takes one to know one” connect any synapses for you?

    • Gnumann

      1: Pharagraphs! They are your friends!
      2: If your child grows up to the age of five without hearing the word in question, you are doing it wrong.
      3: A popular term for coitus only has any harm if you allow it to – for instance by trying to raise your children as prudes. Performing said act on children – far more harm (especially if some idiot parent has tried to raise them as prudes so they haven’t got any vocabulary to deal with the situation).

  • Molly

    You’re still missing the point which is this:

    The word “fuck” doesn’t matter. The whole song is about how trivial the word is. That’s why he repeats the word over, and over, and over, and over again.

    And, yes it takes some serious balls to sing that word a few dozen times right in front of the capital, and even more to direct it at an institution that many consider to be literally sacred, and do so without knowing who could be listening. But, don’t you think that when he sang it he KNEW that that’s what he was doing? His intention was clear, to stir up some wrath over an offensive song. And you’re playing right into his hands.

    And also, there’s a long tradition of protestors saying the F-word into a microphone on the Mall in DC. This ain’t the first fucking time and definitely won’t be the last.

    • PossumRoadkill

      No young lady, I’m not missing the point. I made the point. It was my fucking point to make. I certainly don’t need a lecture from a young girl like yourself. He did it for the shock value. Just like a lot of people do. Like Fox News for instance. They get a lot of you liberals all tweaked using the shock value bit. They do it to the Conservatives too.

      • http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/ Stephanie Zvan

        Oh, I see. It isn’t just my mother and grandmother. All women are children to you. Lovely.

        • PossumRoadkill

          Do you practice on twisting people’s words or does it come natural? That is not what I said. I said what I meant, read it that way. If you don’t like the way I talk, then don’t listen. I wasn’t replying to anything you posted but feel free to just blurt out random and incorrect thoughts anytime you like.

          • http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/ Stephanie Zvan

            You do know that anyone can look at your comment and see that you called Molly a “young girl”, right? Young girl = child. Since you don’t have any basis for determining Molly’s age, all you’re going on is that she’s a woman. You also, in another comment that anyone can see, said that one doesn’t swear in front of children–or one’s mother or grandmother, thus making them equivalent in that respect.

            If you don’t want to deal with what you say, don’t say it. It’s very simple, simpler than typing more bullshit, certainly.

          • PossumRoadkill

            And Stephanie, Since I can’t reply to your 2nd post for some reason (reply turned off maybe) I will do so here. Like I said, I said what I meant and I did not mean to offend her by calling her young, a girl, or a lady. You just like taking people’s words out of context and being a general pain in the ass. You just want a fight. What’s wrong, not getting the respect you think you deserve? I doubt you get respect from men or women with an attitude like you have. You can either read what I write or not. I do not care.

          • Molly

            Thing is, you didn’t address any of the other commenters with “young man,” or “sir,” or “Ms.” or “Freulein,” or whatever. But the commenter who revealed her gender by using her real feminine first name gets addressed as “young lady.” You may not have intended offense, but you made it clear how you feel, consciously or not, about women. In my experience, there’s not much tolerance for sexism in the particular corner of the internet.

          • http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/ Stephanie Zvan

            If I wanted a fight, I’d find someone who knows how to have a fight. Sniffling about grandmothers and calling people who are more aware of what your words mean than you are “young girl”s doesn’t qualify.

      • Molly

        #mencallmethings: young lady. Got it. Never mind then, I guess that since I’m “young” and a “lady” then what I have to say doesn’t matter. I’ll stop bothering you then.

        • PossumRoadkill

          No, it’s not because you’re young and it’s not because you’re a lady. It’s because you came at me with this preachy attitude that you were going to tell me what I though I was talking about. I was just being polite when I called you a lady and I was making an assumption that from your tone that you are young. I happen to treat women with respect when they deserve it. If you want I can treat you with less respect.

          • Molly

            So the person who is defending the guy who sang the F-word a few dozen times in front of thousands of people on a national stage because, in her opinion, it’s not really a big deal and it’s a cool song with a strong point to make is preachy?

          • PossumRoadkill

            No Molly, this “You’re still missing the point which is this:

            The word “fuck” doesn’t matter. ” is preachy. You telling me what point I was trying to make, that is preachy. I just came on a hostile website to tell you what my point was. I understand I am not the most elegant person when it comes to writing, but most people know what I’m talking about. I get your point. I get what the song is about. You are not getting my point. It does not matter what the song is if people stop listening to be because of the language offends them. Yes I get it that it is controversial and edgy and all that.

          • Molly

            Your point was clear from the beginning. “Poor innocent bystanders who happened to find themselves on the Mall the same days as our Rally had their ears assaulted with the F-word. Somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!”

            Our point is, “that’s not the point.” But, as our beloved Tim Minchin said at the end of his poem Storm which he performed later in his set, “We might as well be 10 minutes back in time for all the chance you’ll change your mind.”

          • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

            It’s because you came at me with this preachy attitude

            /sporfle

            Self-awareness isn’t your strong suit, is it?

      • Timid Atheist

        Ick is all I can say when I read this. This sounds like a lecture from my grandpa when I was ten and told him that I did not like him skinning rabbits to sell their fur. “Young lady, you hold your tongue, you don’t know what you’re talking about.” Etc.

        I’m from the midwest too and once I hit eighteen I started saying the f-word in front of my mother on a regular basis. She flinched at first, but she also knew that I’m an adult and I can say whatever I like. Amazing how that works; people having the ability to parse words and understand meaning and even the -reason- for the words.

      • tab

        “I certainly don’t need a lecture from a young girl like yourself.”

        Nice, starting in with the agism AND sexism. You’re on a great road, keep it up champ.

      • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

        “Young lady” … a surefire sign of a sexist fucking asshole who feels entitled to condescend to women. Nobody had to “twist your words” to understand that.

        Do you also like to lecture women like me about our “potty mouths”? About how “unladylike” we are, and how we’ll never catch us a man if we talk that way?

        • PossumRoadkill

          “Do you also like to lecture women like me about our “potty mouths”? About how “unladylike” we are, and how we’ll never catch us a man if we talk that way?”

          Without a doubt the funniest comment on this blog.

          Yes, I am going to make it my personal goal in life to shape you up and find you a man. If you will kindly send me your personal profile information I will start on compiling a list of possible candidates.

          Really? What the fuck? Although…I an feeling a strong connection with you…cannot resist your womanly charms….Seriously Sarcasm is completely lost on you isn’t it. Again, too angry. Stress kills.

  • Thomas True

    I just liked the song and that it was done on the National Mall.

    Everyone seemed to enjoy it.

  • PossumRoadkill

    @Molly says:
    March 29, 2012 at 3:25 pm
    Thing is, you didn’t address any of the other commenters with “young man,” or “sir,” or “Ms.” or “Freulein,” or whatever. But the commenter who revealed her gender by using her real feminine first name gets addressed as “young lady.” You may not have intended offense, but you made it clear how you feel, consciously or not, about women. In my experience, there’s not much tolerance for sexism in the particular corner of the internet.

    Unless I am mistaken, it was you who used a gender specific name not me. I was just going by what I read. Sorry. How do you know that I am male? Are you assuming that I am or do you know for certain. Possums do come in both flavors of female and male. I am sorry if calling you a lady has offended you but things have gotten ever so complicated in this PC world that you people have created. What is a girl to do? Oh my. Why don’t we just dispense with any gender specific names, cloths, identities altogether and just call each other human1 and human2 ect. I will call you human1 since you seem to know exactly what I mean to say. I will await the powers that be to reward me with a number for being a good little mindless, sexless thing.

    And what the hell? You get to reply to my posts but I don’t get to reply to yours? I think someone is manipulating the comments section on here. Is that you BFF Christina? Sneaky sneaky.

    • http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd Christina

      I am not the type to manipulate things like comments. Besides, you can and have already replied to Molly’s posts – and others. So… no idea.

    • http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd Christina

      Actually, I think the replies can only go so deep, because otherwise they are in such a thin column as to become unreadable.

      • PossumRoadkill

        I understand. OK I can see how that would work on this site. I’ve not seen one where the replies were limited because they compressed in this way. I’m sure you can understand my suspicions, I am the enemy after all.

    • Timid Atheist

      I am sorry if calling you a lady has offended you but things have gotten ever so complicated in this PC world that you people have created. What is a girl to do? Oh my.

      Shall we call you young ‘possum then?

      It’s interesting how you’re twisting this to claim that her offense is in regard to the word lady. She objected to you dismissing her argument by talking down to her as if she were a child. And yes, calling someone young lady and young girl when they are not young and no longer a girl but a woman, is condescending and dismissive. An eighteen year old is an adult (no idea if Molly is 18+ or not, however) and should be treated like one, regardless of if that makes them younger than you. Thus your comment about addressing her as young lady because she seemed young and is female comes across as condescending, as if you were lecturing her.

      And yet you’re telling her she’s the one preaching? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle to say, “What’s up?”

      • PossumRoadkill

        “Timid Atheist says:
        It’s interesting how you’re twisting this to claim that her offense is in regard to the word lady.”

        I got the distinct impression that she felt that way because of this comment, “Thing is, you didn’t address any of the other commenters with “young man,” or “sir,” or “Ms.” or “Freulein,” or whatever. But the commenter who revealed her gender by using her real feminine first name gets addressed as “young lady.”
        Maybe I’m wrong. It doesn’t seem to matter what I say on this blog someone will soon twist it into something that was not intended. I could do the same but that’s just not the way I am. As I said, I say what I mean. If people choose to read more into my comments that what I write, then so be it.

        If you want to call me young possum, feel free.How old do you think I am? I could be very very old. I might even be over 30 something or even older if that is possible. I do have to say that I enjoyed your comments. I know what you mean about the skinning of the rabbits. I never got used to that. Much to the dismay of my family, I gave up on the hunting of small furry critters. I prefer to go fishing, but I’m sure someone on here will find fault in that too.

        • Timid Atheist

          From your use of “young lady” I’m guessing you aren’t in your 20s, but other than that, I’ve no idea. But I also can see why you’re addressing her the way that you are. I know how that works in the midwest and gets ingrained in someone. But hopefully you are seeing that it can be insulting if used carelessly. And this isn’t just about being PC. It’s about giving the people you speak with respect. Like Christina has said, you aren’t our enemy or she wouldn’t even be discussing this with you.

          As for the skinning of fluffy things, yes it was really hard for me, but it was how grandpa made money along side his other work and once I was older I was able to understand and accept that even if I didn’t like it. His real passion was for fishing though and that I was okay with, though I didn’t like watching him put the worms on the hook. Poor worms. And I didn’t like watching him tear the hooks out of the fish either. Come to think of it maybe I wasn’t as okay with fishing as I thought. I was just okay with how Grandma fried the fish. Yum.

        • http://ms-daisy-cutter.dreamwidth.org/ Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform

          I am sorry if calling you a lady has offended you but things have gotten ever so complicated in this PC world that you people have created.

          “I’m not PC” – “I’m an asshole who thinks I’m being oppressed when other people won’t let me treat them with condescension or bigotry.”

          It doesn’t seem to matter what I say on this blog someone will soon twist it into something that was not intended.

          Get down off the cross; we need the wood.

          • PossumRoadkill

            “I’m not PC” – “I’m an asshole who thinks I’m being oppressed when other people won’t let me treat them with condescension or bigotry.”

            Wow there’s that connection again. Could it be? Were we separated at birth? Could you be my long lost missing twin?

            Decaff might be a good start.

    • Molly

      You could have called me, um, “Molly,” since that’s the name I offered up and all. Just sayin’…

      • PossumRoadkill

        “You could have called me, um, “Molly,” since that’s the name I offered up and all. Just sayin’…”

        Then I will start by saying, Molly, I am quite sorry that I offended you by my use of anything other than your name.

  • Thomas True

    How do I turn off comments to my e-mail, AHHHG!

    • PossumRoadkill

      There is nothing wrong with your television (computer). Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now controlling the transmission. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next hour we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits. -Opening to the Outer Limits 1963

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

    Oh, FFS, he actually pulled the “if you had kids, you’d understand” card.

    *SMH*

    • http://boldquestions.wordpress.com Ubi Dubium

      Well, I HAVE kids, and I thought the song was wonderful. What a great way to make a point about misplaced priorties! If your kids don’t already know that word, it’s also a good opportunity to open a discussion, about words that are intended to shock but don’t actually do harm, and about what real harm actually is.

      A few times at the rally during that song the camera focused on a fairly elderly lady in the crowd. She had a wonderful expression of mingled shock and delight at this song. Like she couldn’t believe that he was singing that, and also she was amazed at herself that she was enjoying it so much. One of the many highlights of my day.

    • PossumRoadkill

      Yes I did and I can’t believe I had to go to the “Oh the children” route.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

        Fuck the children.

        It’s Tim fucking Minchin. Your whinging about The Pope Song is like, oh, taking a child to see George Carlin perform and then getting all upset because George used “bad” words.

        • PossumRoadkill

          “Fuck the children.”

          Wow ! Really? What an ironic choice of words for this entire discussion. Oh but what I say is offensive? Talk about a double standard.

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

            . <== The point

            o <== Your head

            Children aren’t that fucking fragile or innocent, it ain’t gonna hurt ‘em to hear a WORD. So knock off the child-worship bullshit already, they don’t need to be bubble-wrapped and sound-proofed and protected from every little thing you might find “offensive” — that shit does more harm to the kid than hearing the word “fuck” will EVER do.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

            Oh, shit!

            I didn’t know it would embed like that!

            *flails*

          • http://www.facebook.com/ziztur Christina

            Tee-hee.. It’s not hurting anything embedded like that – it kinda amuses me.

  • http://www.cookhimes.us/dennis.htm Dennis Paul Himes

    FWIW, Dave Silverman specifically asked Tim Minchin to perform the Pope Song at the rally.

  • spondee

    I didn’t go to DC that day. I would have been traveling alone, and I said to myself “do I really want to stand in the sun for six hours in a crowd?”

    It did not occur to me that I might get the chance to dance in the rain to the Pope Song played live.

    I am a stupid, stupid man.

    spondee

    ps- ffffuuucck.

  • SamG

    AAAARRRGGGHHH…. I hate it when I can see each sides arguments.

    I would love to see Tim Minchin one day. I have played that
    song for my kids (they are 16….they may have seen it at 15
    or so though). I would have gone to see him for ‘If I didn’t have you’ though.

    But, I was raised in Indiana. I was told to not use the word fuck (or shit) because I’d be seen as something less than ‘a lady’ (a harlot I guess…which is probably a little closer to the truth). I try not to say them still, though the word shit is becoming a pretty normal part of my vocabulary. My daughter doesn’t curse much at all and my son is trying for sailor. I have to admit, I hate the sailor talk.

    That being said, I would have enjoyed the show in D.C. I would expect that people that are Minchin’s fans have heard that song before and would know what their kids might hear. If they have
    no problem, then I don’t either.

    Sam…

    • PossumRoadkill

      “AAAARRRGGGHHH…. I hate it when I can see each sides arguments.”

      Me too. I can see everyone’s side about the Pope and the alleged cover-up of the factual and admitted child molestation by priests. Clearly, someone kept it quiet. I don’t know if it reached the level of the Pope or not. It has been alleged but not proven. The whole innocent until proven guilty thing complicates the discussion. However almost everyone on here can only see me as critical of Minchin, so I must be one of them who is wanting to cover it up. Nothing could be further from the truth. To some it is easier to label me as the enemy and dismiss everything I say as invalid. This was never my point. Oh well.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ziztur Christina

        You are the only person here who has said you are the enemy.

        Just because we disagree about some point does not make us “enemies”.

        Actually, it’s the exact opposite. I wouldn’t try reasoning with any enemy. I wouldn’t give an enemy such respect.

        I appreciate when people disagree with me (and I’ve written about this many times see: http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/02/02/i-was-wrong-about-being-wrong-thanks-for-showing-me/ ) – to me, if you think I’m wrong about something and want to show me, that’s a sign that you respect me.

        • http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/ Spanish Inquisitor

          Yes. I have to agree with this. This idea of him being the enemy is similar to that of the “persecuted Christians”. We excoriate Christians, not for being Christians, which they have a right to be, but for the ideas embodied in their Christianity. Yet they take it personally.

          Same with Possum. He’s not the enemy, and indeed, his reaction to the Pope Song is a wonderful opportunity to explore the hidden issues involved in that response. He’s probably a really nice guy, and someone you might have a beer with (unless he was like George Bush). However, his “the Pope song should never have been performed in public at an atheist rally because there might have been children near by” complaint is just silly, irrational, and ridiculous (i.e. capable of being ridiculed).

          But he had the courage to come here and try to defend it. You have to respect and even admire that.

          • PossumRoadkill

            Thank you. This is very thought provoking and not what I was expecting. I guess maybe at times through this discussion I did feel that way a little. The more angry comments are what I expected when I came here. However, some of the comments have been very enlightening. I have learned some things through this experience and I had a little fun in the process. Yes I would be pleased to have a beer with you. It would be fun to discuss things, the written word can be awkward and difficult at times. Again, thanks for all your comments.

        • PossumRoadkill

          “You are the only person here who has said you are the enemy.”

          I’m sorry Christina, that was not directed at you. I was using it as a mechanism to elicit a response. OK and I’ll admit it, to also yank some people’s chain a little. I know I shouldn’t do things like that because it makes me look like an attention whore but I have gotten a couple of interesting responses. Spanish Inquisitor’s “persecuted Christians” comment is exactly what I was hoping for. Thought provoking, it helps me understand you all better. OK, some of you, the ones who aren’t angry at the world about everything. This has been a fun experience for me. Thanks for the invite.

      • http://www.cookhimes.us/dennis.htm Dennis Paul Himes

        I don’t know if it reached the level of the Pope or not.

        You seem to be forgetting that the future Pope, Archbishop Ratzinger of Munich, was one of the bishops shuffling abusive priests around to protect them from arrest. He’s not just involved in this as a higher up who suppressed reports of bishops obstruction justice, he was one of those bishops.

        • http://www.cookhimes.us/dennis.htm Dennis Paul Himes

          s/bishops obstruction justice/bishops’ obstruction of justice

  • http://andythenerd.tumblr.com The Nerd

    We’ve been discussing this in a parenting group, and one mother shared this heart-warming story (anonymous so as not to out her):

    I was there with my kiddos and witnessed his performance. My middle two kiddos happened to be having a potty break with daddy when that song happened, but my oldest, aged 9, was with me. He looked at me and said Mommy, that’s a lot of bad words. I said well, he’s a grownup and he’s angry, so he’s allowed to use them and you’re still not allowed to use them. My son asked why he was angry. I said he was angry about grownups that hurt children by touching their private parts and grownups that let them get away with it. His reponse? “Oh, no wonder he’s angry!”

    • http://andythenerd.tumblr.com The Nerd

      As far as I’m concerned, my 5-year-old wouldn’t even blink at all the language, since he hears it from both his parents on a regular basis. What would break my heart, however, is to have to explain the mass systemic cover-up of child rapists by people who claim to own morality. Bigotry is the threat to our children today, not colorful language.

    • Timid Atheist

      This is such a great story. I do this with my daughter when she hears bad words or when I slip and say them myself. (I’m horrible, I know. =/) I tell her that adults use cursing for emphasis or affect or to so anger or upset. And I tell her that when she’s an adult and understands the words better, she can curse if she wants, but she’s not obligated to. She usually looks at me side long and says, “I don’t wanna curse.” Sometimes arming kids with proper information is a better deterrent than forbidding things. Amazing really.

      • PossumRoadkill

        That is excellent ! I like this.

  • PossumRoadkill

    Christina says:
    March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am
    Also, regarding Muslims/Islam, we have covered that.

    Not nearly to the extent that we cover the dominant religion in our country. This has patently little to do with fear and everything to do with what affects us directly.

    You could use that search button at the top and type in “islam” or “muslim”. You could also do the same to my old blog (www.ziztur.com), or JT’s old blog (http://wwjtd.net/).

    I did it for you and found some. There are probably more but I think you get the picture:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/03/05/the-answer-fatwa-envy/
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/02/22/judge-rules-against-atheist-attacked-in-costume-by-muslim/
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2011/11/02/muslims-burn-building-over-cartoon/

    Thanks, but I already took a look around and did a search and found these and a couple more that I found very interesting. I received your tweet that you received the links I sent you. I’ll be looking forward to seeing the blogs on them.

  • Sili

    If only someone had not said “fuck” to the Pope so often when he was kid, then perhaps he wouldn’t such a despicable excuse for a human being today.

  • Tony

    If I can jump here and ask a question…

    But just because you have the right to say it over a PA on the National Mall with a bunch of little kids in the audience, should you?

    –What is the negative effect of hearing the word “fuck” dozens of times supposed to have on little kids?
    I’m talking about an actual effect? Not something imaginary. Not something that’s an outlier.
    I mean some sort of serious negative effect on the little kids hearing the word multiple times.

    I can’t come up with anything. Even if they weren’t exposed to the word at all as a child, they’re not going to go through their life without hearing it. It’s a word. What is the harm in using it? If there’s something wrong with using ‘fuck’, are there other words we’re not supposed to use (for some incredibly vague reason)? Is there a word police to tell us what language we’re supposed to use? Is there some site online that we can go to and learn the words that we shouldn’t use?
    In case no one could tell, I’m being sarcastic.
    It’s ridiculous that anyone would get themselves in a tizzy over multiple uses of the word ‘fuck’ in earshot of little kids. Again, what damage is it supposed to do?
    Once we establish the damage done to little kids by hearing the word fuck a bunch of times, we can compare it to the damage done to little kids by being raped by priests…
    Fuck that.
    I’m not going to compare them at all. The former is a non-problem. It’s only a problem for those people concerned about shielding impressionable children from harsh words. Words that they’re going to hear eventually anyway. Words they’re likely to USE at some point in the future.
    And when it comes to shielding impressionable children from danger,
    why don’t we shield them from catholic priests?
    There exists (sadly) a massive amount of evidence to demonstrate the harm in children being raped.

    Oh, and the reason no one seems to be discussing members of Congress or politicians involved in sex scandals…it’s not the subject of the post. Many people throughout FtB try to stay on topic with their responses to bloggers. When it is the topic of a post, you can rest assured that people are going to chime in with their opinions. If the post involves someone getting raped, you can damn well rest assured that pretty much every person that regularly posts in FtB would condemn the rapist.

    You seem to feel there’s something wrong with using the word fuck multiple times. Why? Let’s get to the nitty gritty here. If it’s ok to say a few times, why not a few times more? What is the origin of your aversion to multiple uses of the word ‘fuck’ in a song? Especially when the song is intended to strike a nerve. It’s supposed to grab people with the use of the word fuck. It’s supposed to startle them. It’s supposed to get them annoyed. Once riled up, they’re then supposed to realize that the anger they have towards the multiple uses of the word

    SHOULD

    be minimal in comparison to how furious they feel about

    CATHOLIC PRIESTS RAPING CHILDREN.


    Steering the discussion away from the institutionalized rape of children over decades-if not centuries-to a discussion about proper language around children so massively misses the point as to be mind boggling.

    (sorry for the shouting, but in this case, I don’t think there’s enough shouting done about the vile actions of the church officials)

    • PossumRoadkill
      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty

        Sorry, not buying it.

        Aggression is KNOWN to be influenced directly BY THE PARENTS. In addition, we also know that spanking leads to aggression and violence in children.

        Hearing the word “fuck” a few times isn’t going to harm “teh CHILDRUNZZZZ”.

        • PossumRoadkill

          And you studied child psychology where?

  • Tony

    SamG:

    I was told to not use the word fuck (or shit) because I’d be seen as something less than ‘a lady’ (a harlot I guess…which is probably a little closer to the truth). I try not to say them still, though the word shit is becoming a pretty normal part of my vocabulary.

    –Why do I feel the vile tendrils of religion played a big role with regard to you being told not to use the word ‘fuck’?
    I quite dislike the rigid gender roles religion places upon men and women.
    But I *hate* the way religious beliefs treat women.
    Women are supposed to be polite.
    Women are supposed to be gentile.
    Women are supposed to cook.
    Women are supposed to clean.
    Women are supposed to stay at home.
    Women are supposed to raise children.
    Women are supposed to tend the home.
    Women are supposed to defer to men.
    Women are supposed to stay silent in church.

    Screw that!

    Women aren’t *supposed* to do any damn thing!

    Women *can* do whatever the hell they want.

    I also can’t stand how insidious religious beliefs are. Just as Muslim women don’t exactly get a choice to be veiled or not (some say they are, but their religion doesn’t allow the choice). The only way the choice could be their own is if they recognized the inherent misogyny in the Koran and realized that’s how they’re controlled. With a more full awareness of the origins of being veiled, they can then make an informed choice.
    Similarly, I think even today religious beliefs inform the decision many women make to be homemakers. Curious, the role that the bible says women are supposed to take on is the very role that many women take on. I’m not so certain they got the chance to make a choice.

  • Anri

    Touche Christina! My new BFF ! Thanks for the invite to comment on your blog. What you didn’t tell your blog following in the above piece was the real reason for my disgust for what Mr. Munchin did or the reason for my angry tone in my tweets. Christina’s re-tweeting of my original tweet to my friends prompted an entire army of Atheists to attack me on Twitter. Most I chose to ignore because they contained a continual flood of the F word (Fuck not friend).

    C’mon, folks, let’s concentrate on the real issue.

    I mean, sure, thousands of freethinker fans gathered in a massive historical public display, and there’s a massive world-wide, multi-generational cover up of child rape by one of the world’s wealthiest and most influential groups, but the real issue is that people sent internet messages to PossumRoadkill.

    PRk was attacked – attacked, I say!
    Rude Language was used!
    Tweets flew through the air with to respect for random bystanders!
    Oh the humanity!

  • conrod

    It was my son who introduced me to Tim. I’m very proud of that.

    I saw Tim in Glasgow (Scotland) last year where he performed the Pope song (a brave thing to do; check your history). I only saw one walkout (weak bladder?)

    AP

  • Fragr

    Uhh, if i may just bump in for a moment…

    Now, i’ll start off by saying that i have not read all of the posts above since it is quite late at the moment and i’ve got to get up in the morning so i apologize if this is a double post.

    With that out of the way i feel i must comment on all the drama with profanity amongst children…

    When did it stop being a parent’s responsibility to teach their children what profane words mean and when it is and isn’t appropriate to use them?

    I remember very clearly the day that my dad sat me down at the kitchen table for a long discussion about this very subject after having heard me blurt swedish versions of the words “cock” and “cunt” at a computer game.
    I was only around six years old and the conversation was long and, for me, very distressing because the kids at daycare that i had learned these words from had told me that i would get into a lot of trouble if an adult ever heard me say them.
    And sure enough, my dad did get angry at me. But not because of the fact that i had used profane words. He was angry at me because i had clearly used them without knowing what they meant and why people considered them bad.
    He did not, as i had feard, punish me for using the words. He simply told me then and there exactly what the words meant and why i should think twice before using them.
    Of course i wasn’t able to take in what he had told me right away. I was under the impression that my world was about to fall apart because of what my dad had heard me say. I was only six after all.
    But as the shock and fear from the event wore off i thought back to what my dad had actually told me and realised that i probably should be careful about using these types of words, not because someone had told me they were “bad” but because i knew what made them “bad”.
    I’m sure there’s people who would say that my dad’s a horrible parent for putting me through that experience, but facts are that i did very clearly learn that day why people get offended by profanity and it’s helped me tremendously to guage when i should and shouldn’t swear.
    And even though i remember how afraid i was and how ashamed i felt, despite now being 21, i can’t blame my dad for his decision simply because he did the right thing. He took the hard decison and had the awkward discussion with his crying six year old son, knowing that despite causing me distress at that very moment it would help me later throughout my life. And like i said, it has.

    So why do upset parents all over the world get their undies in a twist whenever a public figure utters a profane word? Why do parents go on these huge crusades to try and ban profanity from everyday use rather than sitting down with their kid to discuss it, when the latter quite obviously works?

    If i compare what i see in todays parents to my own upbringing the only anwser i can come up with is lazyness. Everybody remembers that moment when their parents had “the talk” with them and most people agree that it was a very awkward experience. So rather than having to have this awkward conversation with their kids they try to put it off in some misguided belief that if they try hard enough their children won’t catch on, simply because it’s easier. All while telling themselves that their kids will be better off not knowing.
    But what is really better for the children? That they get shielded and pampered in a censored world all their life until one day reality hits them in the face and they have no idea how to handle it?
    Or that they get introduced to it early on so that they are more prepared as they grow up?

    Either way i can promise you this.
    Children are not going to take damage from hearing the word “Fuck” or any othe profane word so long as their parent explains to them what the word means and what it imples when used in everyday conversations. Not even if they hear it over 70 times in less than 2 minutes.
    The only time children are going to take damage from hearing profanity is when their parent’s choose to not explain what the words mean because that will lead to them drawing their own conclusions about what the words mean and when it’s appropriate to use them. And since children have an inheirent lack of life experience they will on the majority of occasions come to the wrong conclusions.

    So in short:
    If parents spent half the time talking to their children about tough subjects as they do complaining in public media about how their children get exposed to non-child-friendly things, then children getting exposed to non-child-friendly things wouldn’t be a problem anymore.

  • Martian Bishop

    I’m new to the Tim Minchin bandwagon. I’ve seen the arguments that he’s vulgar and not funny. This guy is brilliant. Especially when he mocks religion.

    I’m agnostic, which typically seems to be a coward’s way out for being an atheist. My personal definition of agnosticism is that I don’t care if there’s a God. Because if there is a God he’s a cruel fucking bastard. Why do 3 year old girls die of leukemia? Is it to make people more resolute over the tragedy? Instead of testing to make sure your immortal soul is something other than being worm food or ashes (maybe scattered over the ocean if you did something heroic.)

    So if you fucking took your fucking seven fucking year old mother fucking daughter to the National Mall and fucking had to listen to fucked up lyrics you are using religion as a fucking excuse for your bad fucking parenting. The type of sheeple that fucking think a new fucking video game for the fucked up kid is a fucking excuse for your bad fucking parenting. Tim is a known fucking artist and if you ever did any research in fucking regards to what you might do for the little fucktard kids you’d never have taken them to the performance in the first place.

    There is no good rebuttal to fucked up assholes fucking declaring that they are more angry about the word “fuck” than Jerry Sandusky fucking children. There is no good rebuttal to the fucktards that think a miracle is seeing Jesus’ face in a slice of toast or fixing the cataracts on one woman.

    So fuck you mother fuckers and fuck the horse you rode into fucking town on. Your horse probably fucking believes that its immortal fucking soul is destined for a life with fucking Secretariat instead of fucking being worm fucking food.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X