FtB podcast #2

Last night PZ Myers, Ashley Miller, Chris Rodda, and myself sat down to talk about education.  Enjoy!

For help getting through it:

Drink every time Chris Rodda says David Barton
Drink every time PZ mocks me for video games
Drink every time Ashley and I start laughing apparently unrelated to anything happening in the conversation
Drink every time Nikki Haley is a horrible person

I expect to return from the Annual Mid Ohio Atheists Summer Picnic to find you all happily shnockered.

  • http://sexyheathen.com/blog/amanda/ Mandagator

    Do you have an easy link to FTB Podcast #1?

  • http://asieno.com Julien Rousseau

    Two things:

    1. I can’t seem to find your piece mentioned at around 3:00 about the high school guy writing the letter to the SSA, could you give a link?

    2. When you talk with Leah, can you ask her* why, if she believes in objective morality she would believe that morality comes from a god, who is, by definition, a subjective entity (as evidence by said supposedly objective morality changing every damn time you change the subjectgod). Note that the question does not deny the existence of objective morality but starts by assuming that it does (just in case you are wondering, I personally think that morality is objective and emergent but that most of what people call morality has nothing to do with it).

    * unless someone else did and she answered and I missed it as I did not follow it closely at all.

    • Konradius

      I believe in relative morality. However some morality is relative to being a human.
      So if that changes and someone wishes (and is able) to complain about that, get back to us! ;)

      • http://asieno.com Julien Rousseau

        I believe in relative morality. However some morality is relative to being a human.

        If by human you mean “able to exercise moral judgment” then it sound like what I mean by emergent.

        For example a human newborn cannot do anything immoral because xe don’t have the ability to think about their acts and their consequences, even though they are human.

        Similarly a male lion killing the pups from the former pride leader when taking over the pride cannot be said to be immoral for the same reason.

        They both are amoral.

        But if lions evolved to be able to reason to a level similar to humans then it would then be immoral for a lion to kill those pups.

        On the other side, no matter what you do to (but not necessarily with) an amorphous rock it is not immoral wrt to the amorphous rock, even if you destroy it because the rock is neither sentient nor able to feel pain. If a rock was not amorphous but was organised in such a way that they can think or feel pain (like trolls on discworld) then it could be possible for certain actions done to them to be immoral.

        The interaction between the necessity of being able to reason about the consequences of your actions on one hand and the ability to feel pain and/or have consciousness on the other is what, IMO, cause actions to be moral or not (though you probably could find exceptions, it is a rough guide) and thus why I think it is emergent, just like you can’t have a murmuration of starlings flying in formation without starlings interacting.

        That’s also why I don’t think it is morally relative because if you want to claim that “if you do something deemed immoral for you but not immoral for a lion” is moral relativism then it is the same as saying that “if you do something deemed immoral for you but not immoral for a hurricane is moral relativism” as the salient difference is not aliveness but ability to make moral judgment.

        Yikes, that was long. Unfortunately I don’t know how to explain myself more concisely on this matter.

        So if that changes and someone wishes (and is able) to complain about that, get back to us! ;)

        I don’t understand what you mean by that.

  • John

    I’m getting to view this way late, but I was amazed to see you bring up the hardest question tackled on this podcast – Chrono Trigger vs. Final Fantasy VI.

    You win the internets!

  • Celeste

    Speaking of the 7 Deep Rifts, is there a FtB blogger that deals primarily with medicine and debunking homeopathy, herbal treatments, etc? I would love to see more blogs about that subject.


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