Church homosexuality FAQ for kids!

Saw this informative church brochure.  Here are some choice excerpts.

Most cultures long ago decided this was very wrong. And they made rules against it, for a lot of good reasons (more grown-up stuff). First of all, two men can never create their own child. Neither can two women. And two men kissing– well, it just doesn’t seem right. That’s because it isn’t!

Hell, as long as most cultures long ago decided it was very wrong…  This makes perfect sense since we govern our modern world by ancient ideals.  Also kids, the sun orbits the earth and sickness is caused by demons.  Run along now and remember not to ask questions.

And there are a lot of good reasons, which they’re going to tell the kids when they’re older.  But then, in the very next sentence, they go on to give reasons.  Those must be the shitty reasons.

First reason: gay people can’t create a child.  You’ll be happy to learn that modern science has fixed that.  You’ll be unhappy to learn that people don’t fuck just to make babies.

Second reason:  two men/women kissing is icky!  That makes it wrong.  So is the corollary true?  If we don’t find it icky, does that make it so, so right?

Some people claim they were “born” homosexual. But there is no well-accepted science that backs up that idea. Strong feelings are not proof of anything.

Neither is there scientific evidence to back up the idea that people think pizza is tasty.  We don’t need it because lots of people behave in a way that confirms they think pizza is tasty.  Ditto, gay people behave in a way that confirms they think members of the same gender are physically attractive.  There are some things so basic, obvious, and irrelevant that scientists don’t want to take time away from curing cancer to prove the bleeding obvious, like proving to churchgoers that some women really like putting their mouths on other women.

What do these people think; that LGBT people don’t really find other dudes/dudettes attractive and that they do it just to fuck with Christians?

What’s more, who gives a shit if LGBT people are born that way?  People weren’t born with pierced ears, but we don’t give a shit if they pierce their ears.  You know why?  Because it’s their fucking life.  You don’t get to tell them what they do or do not enjoy, and you definitely don’t get to tell them it’s wrong because societies thousands of years ago said so.

But here’s the real kicker.  For those saying that religion isn’t the problem with gay rights, why would stuff like this exist (and oh, is there ever more of it) if there were not a huge market/demand for it in churches?  This is what kills me when gay rights groups try to make friendly with Christianity.  Remove religion from the equation and much of the gay rights fight would be unnecessary.  If anybody should have an interest in purging religion from the human mind, it’s the victims of its scriptures.

And seriously, if you’re one of the people who find any of the contents of this booklet to be credible, you are being stupid and callous.  If you find being labeled as stupid and callous disagreeable, then demand good reasoning from even the people on your own side (and condemn wretched reasoning like this when your side advances it) and practice putting yourselves in the shoes of others before you try to lord over them.  If that’s not what it means to be a Christian, then being a Christian is an affront to one’s humanity.

  • http://illinissa.com Franklin

    “This stuff is very grown-up, but let me quote and source Leviticus for you!”

  • Michaelyn

    “Strong feelings are not proof of anything.”
    So tell me. Where is your proof for this god that you say hates homosexuality? How do you know “he’s” real? Oh you feel it in your heart? Ahem.

    • drax

      This. That was my pretty much my favorite part. Gotta carry on that hypocrisy.

    • http://considertheteacosy.wordpress.com Aoife

      Strong feelings aren’t proof of anything.. unless those feelings are about gays being icky. Amirite?

  • invivoMark

    Actually, we’ve got quite a lot of empirical evidence that sexual orientation is caused prior to birth. The standard model organism for this research is the ram (no giggling, please): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=sexual%20partner%20preferences%20in%20rams

  • Star Foster

    The Emperor Hadrian would be surprised to read this pamphlet. As would the ancient Sumerians, the Spartans, most of ancient Greek culture, etc…

    • baal

      Yeah, I’ve seen that “MOST historical cultures” line in a few places and I wind up stiffing a, “bullshit!”

  • John Horstman

    Wow, they snuck some body-shaming in there at the end, too. Well-played, Christian bigots!

  • Drakk

    “Strong feelings are not proof of anything.”

    My sense of irony just blew completely out the back of my head.

    • http://thaliasmusingsnovels.com/ Amethyst

      Yep. “Strong feelings are not proof of anything, except our strong feelings that two dudes kissing is gross! That, of course, is proof that homosexuality will bring about the downfall of human civilization. Not some silly *science* that is not widely accepted. And by that, we mean not accepted by the 27 people who will distribute this pamphlet.”

  • ganner

    You should have taken that “strong feelings” slow lob over the plate and knocked it out of the park. that could be an entire article.

  • Loqi

    I cannot fully express my contempt for the “gay is a choice” canard with words. And that’s saying something, because I think I’m pretty good at wordsing things. First, it’s fucking irrelevant, and the fact that the conversation even has to progress past this point makes me want to beat myself about the head with a large wrench while listening to Rebecca Black. I shouldn’t have to show that it’s untrue as well. But if I must, then I must. If a guy (it’s usually a guy for some reason) wants to prove to me that being gay is a choice, there’s a simple experiment that would change my mind faster than Mitt Romney changes his. First, I’m going to strip him naked and tie him to a chair. Then I’m going to strip naked and give him the most awkward lap dance he’s ever likely to have. Then I’m going to instruct him to choose to be gay temporarily. If his position that we can choose what is sexually attractive to us is true, then at the drop of a hat (and my pants) he should be able to decide to become aroused at the sight of my chunky, hairy man-ass. If he manages to do that, I’m going to tell him to go straight again. Once more, if his position is true, his erection should disappear faster than a teacher’s collective bargaining rights in a red state. If that happens, he will have convinced me.
    Oddly, not a single person has accepted the challenge.

    • rork

      I might accept that challenge, if your ass is not as bad as you make out, except for the loose the erection part – then it would be better if it weren’t very nice. But as easily as you can get your ass to change, I can change my blood flow.
      Seriously though, the born stuff stems partly from us not finding heritability to be as high as it would be if the explanation were entirely genetic. So what? Environment in the womb, or in early life, may also contribute. And I agree that even if we do choose (and I really can choose to act straight or gay quite easily, and I consider that a blessing), it doesn’t matter, unless you want to change your choice, which almost nobody does.
      The real issue is “And they made rules against it, for a lot of good reasons..”. That’s the bullshit. Some say there are no reasons at all. I think there may be some reasons (the real ones I can think of were never given – they usually are left vague or unsaid, cause they are so weak), but they aren’t good enough when weighed against the bad that comes from denying people equal protections and respect cause of details about their genitals being similar or dissimilar to their preferred partners.

      • Loqi

        It’s hard for me to accurately report on the niceness of my ass, being not flexible enough to give it a good look over for myself :)
        I’m aware there’s some wiggle room in what you find appealing. I’ve made some minor modifications myself, but it took a long while to really condition myself. Then again, I’m pretty rigid in my sexuality. Someone with a more fluid sexuality might find that easier to do (I’m speaking from a position of ignorance here, and am willing to be educated if I’m being stupid). Still, i’d find it pretty incredible if someone can make a change that drastic that quickly. This, of course, assumes the homophobe in the chair is heterosexual…which may not be the case, hence the “then turn straight” part. I don’t know that it’s possible to go the other direction. If it were simply a matter of will to go from being gay or bi to het, wouldn’t those de-gaying “therapies” be effective? I know there are a lot of people out there who wish they weren’t attracted to the same sex. Conversely, I know there are people out there who wish they could be (I’m one of them – I find being heterosexual unnecessarily constricting on potential partners, but I just haven’t been able to change it, and I suspect I’m wired such that it’s not really possible).
        So, yes, you are correct, it’s possible to beat my challenge. However, it’s because an erection is not necessarily a good proxy for arousal, not because people can just flip a gay/staight switch.

  • baal

    “like proving to churchgoers that some women really like putting their mouths on other women.”
    they do!, ewwwwww. No really, thanks for the great line. (nom nom nom)

  • http://thaliasmusingsnovels.com/ Amethyst

    “Kids who are overweight are sometimes bullied, too. And we might want to make that person feel better. But it would be a mistake to say that overeating is a good thing, right?”

    [sarcasm]Of course right. You should tell that person that you love the fattie but hate the fat. Because they have probably never heard in their entire life that overeating is bad for you, that the obesity epidemic is destroying our country, and that thin people are hotter than fat people. If you ever tell an overweight person that they are attractive and that their weight doesn’t change the way you see them as a person, you are speeding them down the highway to coronary hell. [/sarcasm]

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    These lame, silly arguments are meant for kids? That’s funny, because these are the same lame, silly arguments I get from the adults such unfortunate kids have grown up to be. Where are the adult arguments? I haven’t heard any of those yet.

    Fortunately, many of these kids are seeing through this bullshit as they grow up. It’s one of the main reasons that these churches are losing members. Go ahead and bleed all the way out from your self-inflicted wound.

  • http://tommorris.org/ Tom Morris

    “And two men kissing– well, it just doesn’t seem right.”

    I have to disagree. It not only seems right, it is bloody awesome!

  • Stephanie Ridge

    I want a tee shirt that says “Scripture Victim”


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