THE EVIL OF ATHEISM: analysis

Christina here…

This video has been floating around Twitter all day, and I feel it is my duty to respond to it.

The video is:  The Evil of Atheism: The Video Atheists DO NOT want you to see! (Buddhism and Christianity) and is produced by a guy called “Daniel, Man of Reason”.

I want you to see it.  Here you go:

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Here we go with some analysis!

Daniel: an atheist might object to the idea that atheism is evil. After all, atheism does not proscribe a moral code. Yet that is exactly the problem.

Right. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, just like theism is a belief in gods. Neither atheism nor theism proscribe a moral code: we get our moral codes from somewhere other than the mere proposition that god(s) exist or do not exist.

I could say the same thing about theism. Theism does not proscribe a moral code. Carry on, Daniel…

Daniel: Since atheism has no moral code, those who embrace it can be as evil as they wish without any contradiction to their worldview.

Yeah, and since theism has no moral code either, those who embrace theism can be as evil as they wish too.

Daniel: a moral code describes what should, or ought to be. Saying a person ought to behave in a certain way implies that someone designed us in the world with a certain purpose in mind.

Shenanigans, Daniel. Maybe someone ought to behave in a certain way so they can be a productive and useful member of society. That doesn’t imply that someone designed people with a purpose in mind, it only implies that our society values things like the ability to be productive. Maybe someone ought to behave in a certain way so they can avoid going to prison or breaking the laws of the land. That doesn’t imply someone designed people with a purpose in mind, either. Only if, “A person ought to behave in accordance with the purpose that person was designed for” implied that someone designed us in the world with a certain purpose in mind. In other words, you’ve got some unstated premises that lead to this implication.

Daniel: God is the only source for objective morality. If there is no god, then there is no morality. Nothing is really good or evil in that case.

Citation needed re: god being the only source of objective morality.

God can’t be the source of objective morality.  Objective morality is morality that exists freely outside of a conscious entity. Objective morality is “mind-independent”. A morality you get from a god can’t be objective – if morality were objective, your god would have to get his morality from someplace outside his mind.  If god is the only source of your morality, you’ve pretty much defined your morality as non-objective. If morality can’t exist without your god, then you’re digging yourself into an even deeper subjective hole. Good job.

Daniel: Therefore, since the atheist rejects the very source of goodness, he rejects goodness itself.

Wouldn’t that also apply to any theist who rejects your god? Also, you said god was the source of morality. Now he;s the source of goodness, too? Citation needed. I predict some more presuppositionalist b.s. to follow…

Daniel: In Mark 10:17-18, “A man came to Jesus calling him ‘good master’ and Jesus’ reply was, ‘why do you call me good? Only god is good.’” An action cannot be good on its own, nor can a person be good, in and of himself.  It is god who is good, and when our actions are done in accordance with his will, only then are those actions good.

So… you can pretty much do whatever you want and call it good, so long as you believe god told you to do it. If god’s will is for you to kill your family by burning their faces with acid, then your actions are good. Gotcha. This is better than atheism how?

Daniel: Therefore, an atheist cannot perform any actions which can be called “good”. He has no morally “good” intentions because to him, there is no good

I see. Murdering your family by burying them alive = good, if god told you to do it. Volunteering at a soup kitchen = can’t possibly good, because you’re an atheist.

Daniel: There is simply no such thing as an atheist who is a good person.

In your worldview, there is also no such thing as a theist who believes in a different god than you who is a good person. Also, everything you do is good, because you said so. I understand now.

Daniel: So, now you can clearly see tat atheism is not only the rejection of a god, but it is the rejection of goodness itself.

Nope. I don’t clearly see. I do clearly see that your arguments are based on the presupposition that your god is good and his (subjective) morality is all good.

Daniel: If there is no god, then where does the goodness of an atheist come from? It comes from the society he lives in.

Like you’re in any better boat.

Daniel: It is nothing more than the majority opinion and in this case, morality loses all meaning because it is then pure subjective preference.

Actually most atheists I know (at least in the USA) do not simply blindly follow the majority opinion. We have complex, well thought out moral systems. I’m sorry morality is complicated and can’t be explained in a few trite sentences, but that’s just how it is.

Daniel: Once a person decides that morality is subjective, they have set up the perfect conditions for evil actions.

Once a person decides that god gives them their morality and that they can only do good when following their god, then any action can be rationalized as good. Which sets up the perfect conditions for evil actions, as all actions are seen as good. See, your morality isn’t based on actions at all – only on what god says.

If my husband beat the shit out of me every day and my friends told me what an evil asshat he is, what if my response was, “Oh no. My husband is a good man. He is good. He beat me because I deserve it. All the good in my life comes from him and he is the source of good” would you think I was being rational? No. You wouldn’t. Not because he is human but because the evidence of his actions is contrary to the idea that he is all good. Yet god sends a hurricane down to wipe out a small town and he’s the good guy. If god is good no matter what, it doesn’t matter what horrible atrocities he commits. You’ll always find a way to rationalize those atrocities as good. Usually we decide if a person is good based on evidence, especially evidence of his actions and character. But it doesn’t matter what your god does, how much of a horrible bastard he is: he’s still the source of good.

That’s fundamentally sick.

Daniel: Think of a serial killer. what is the perfect worldview for him. If he feels an intense desire to kill and simultaneously feels that he can invent his own morality, what is to stop him? The answer is: nothing.

Funny how I don’t know of many atheist serial killers. A serial killer who feels the intense desire to kill could also rationalize that god told him to kill. Maybe he will rationalize that if god is all good and god does not want him to kill, that god will stop him from killing. What’s to stop him? He could also rationalize that god will forgive him one day because he believes really hard.

Daniel: For an atheist, there is no afterlife and therefore, no ultimate justice.

Which is why we work for justice here and now. We can’t depend on some god to do it for us.

Daniel: The Buddha said in Dhammapada 176 that a person who does not believe in the afterlife is capable of all manner of evil.

Christina said on the WWJDT blog: a person who believes his god is all good is capable of all manner of evil.

Daniel: If an atheist decides to reject the majority opinion and he knows that he can escape the authorities, then there is absolutely nothing holding him back from evil acts

Sure, he he hasn’t passed the pre-conventional stage of moral development.

Daniel: Why should he go along with society’s opinion? It’s arbitrary.

Wait, I thought you said it as subjective?

Daniel: Atheism guarantees evil.

Xenophobic much?

Daniel: Atheists only comply with society’s moral code as a pretense. It is just their selfish desire to fit in with the majority. They don’t actually believe good and evil exists.

We’re so selfish. Which is why we disagree with the moral majority so much of the time, especially in the US.

Daniel: If the majority began to adopt evil as a social norm, the atheist would be singing the beauty of those morals. They only support Judaeo-christian morals to appease the Christian majority.

Fuck you, Daniel. I’ve spent most of my adulthood fighting evil, fighting oppression, fighting wrongness. If the majority, for example, decided to re-adopt slavery, you better believe 99.9% of the atheists out there would fight tooth and claw to end it. Also, what do you have to say about countries in which Christianity isn’t the majority? What about Sweden, Denmark, Japan, France, and all of those other countries in which atheists are the majority? I don’t see any rampant evil. Where’s your proof?

You don’t have any, because your arguments aren’t based on evidence: they are based on faith and atheophobia.

Daniel: Western society has been shaped over the course of centuries by the teachings of Christ.

Who oddly enough, got the basic question of morality wrong: is it okay to enslave other people. Western civilization is also shaped by secularism, and all of the progress I have seen in the past centries toward positive morality haven’t been started by theists. They hopped on the bandwagon after we dragged them kicking and screaming.

Daniel: and the world would fall into great darkness if ever atheism took hold of it.

What would you count as atheism “taking hold” of the world? Like.. Sweden? DEAR ME LOOK AT THE EVIL THERE. Everybody is killing everybody else in these predominantly atheist nations ZOMG. Also, this argument applies to anyone who worships any god other than yours, I noticed.

This kind of thinking can and does lead to evil. If atheists are so ultra-evil, pure evil beings, isn’t it your duty to stomp us out of existence? It should at least be your duty to be totally intolerant of us.

Daniel: in fact, this is what they are working towards right now.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! …oh, did I laugh evil like that out loud?

Daniel: If they can succeed in eliminating religion then society will inevitably drift away from Christian love, and into the darkness which is atheism.

….

Well, that was informative.

Learn more about Christina and follow her @ziztur.

About christinastephens
  • smrnda

    It’s a sign of a very bad reasoning when he pulls out a Bible verse and then states that its conclusions are somehow axiomatically binding. The whole idea being persuasive writing is building a case based on reasons and evidence that would be accepted by a person who doesn’t already agree with you.

    Also, if atheists just go along with the majority to have an easier time, why are they openly proclaiming that they are atheists (a minority viewpoint?) Atheists also seem pretty willing to go against social norms and majority opinion when it seems like popular opinion is wrong.

    I tend to think that believers function (often) on a carrot and stick level of morality, and can’t imagine doing (or not doing) anything for a well-thought out, personal reason.

  • http://spiritualconstipation.blogspot.com/ JoeNavy

    And of course this fuck has turned off voting and comments /shrug. And I doubt he will ever watch the video response that is already up.

  • MizzMazz

    I like how he just sort of materializes in the beginning – like he just beamed down from the mothershit (typo and it stays). Couldn’t watch more than a few seconds after that – what a smarmy git.

  • nude0007

    God, through jesus, says if you are the most evil creature on the planet, just before you die if you believe in jesus you have no consequences for your actions, so god gives us no moral compass, just an escape from the consequences.
    Atheist get their morality from society, but also from genetics. we are social animals, and so MUST consider others wants and needs. The fact that most criminals in prison are religious belies the point that atheism is immoral and evil.
    The god of the christians not only committed every evil you can think of, from murdering every type of person down to children and fetuses, (including rape if you count Mary) but he told his followers to do this also. God said:
    2 Kings 6:33 Behold, this evil is of the Lord.
    Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
    Amos 3:6 Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
    Psalm 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    I think we atheists are well vindicated, even by the christians own book.

    • John Horstman

      “The fact that most criminals in prison are religious belies the point that atheism is immoral and evil.”
      I think this is likely simply a consequence of the fact that most people (here in USA at any rate) are religious. This also conflates law and morality, which is a mistake – we have plenty of immoral laws on the books. I still like your sentiment.

      • sqlrob

        Yes, but the proportion of atheists in prison is lower than the proportion of atheists in the general population.

  • Glodson

    Wow, I’m impressed. You did that well, and put much more thought, effort and even respect than it deserved. Something I couldn’t have done.

    The thing is that people like him have to think we’re evil. Otherwise figuring out why his loving god has such a desire to send us to Hell might be a slight problem, especially since his morality is based on the existence of a sadistic deity. See the Book of Job.

  • Matthew

    Why does he bring in Buddhism? He seems to refer to it positively but Buddhists don’t share his god belief so they must be evil, at least according to his own argument. It’s just weird but I can’t bear to watch the whole thing to try and make sense out of this stupidity.

    • RobMcCune

      He seems to have his own weird christian/buddhist mashup as well as an interest in psychology. Haven’t watched any of his other vids, but after this one I don’t want to.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/DanielManOfReason

  • Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

    “Atheists have no rational basis for morality” makes about as much sense as “atheists have no rational basis for lunch”.

    • Glodson

      Then let’s have a nice irrational mid-afternoon snack.

  • iknklast

    Wait just a minute. He’s saying we’re evil. You’re saying we’re not necessarily any more evil than anyone else. Does that mean I have to give up my Evil Little Thing sweatshirt? Or do I get to keep wearing it? Is there any objective basis for owning an Evil Little Thing sweatshirt? Or is it good because God says I’m an Evil Little Thing, and therefore it must be good?

    • iknklast

      (by the way, Evil Little Thing might be a bit of a misnomer for a woman who is 5’10″, therefore I’m also a liar – so, I’m a liar, I must be evil, I get to keep wearing the shirt! Yea, I figured it out!)

      • Glodson

        If I can’t trust you about your height, how do I even know you are evil?

        • iknklast

          You caught me! I’m lying about being evil…now how evil is that! ;-)

          • Glodson

            This is an infinite recursive loop of evil!

  • http://mrtact.com/blog Tim Keating

    …and I can clearly not choose the wine in front of YOU.

    • Stogoe

      Clearly he has a dizzying intellect.

  • spidergal

    I just don’t get why “morals” have to be linked to a deity? Are we completely incapable of deciding what is fundamentally right or wrong without guidance from someone “up above”? If this is the case then, as a sentient species, we are a sad sad lot!

    • Watry

      I suspect that some theists know they can’t win on the scientific front, so they have to present the existence of a deity as somehow necessary. Something like an argument from utility. Secondly, this argument is Apologetics 201, so a lot of it’s probably coming down from the pulpit.

    • Cat MacKinnon

      “I just don’t get why “morals” have to be linked to a deity? Are we completely incapable of deciding what is fundamentally right or wrong without guidance from someone “up above”?”

      they don’t, and we aren’t. that’s at the crux of that matter though, because as long as churches keep convincing people that we’re somehow too stupid to have a moral code without a deity, it keeps asses in the pews. combine that with the ever-present spectre of potentially roasting in hell for eternity, and people will keep eating that shit up.

  • Godlesspanther

    I started watching the vid — just a barrage of the stupidest, most shallow, transparent, hackneyed, and absurd “arguments” to support his opinion, I just assumed that he was a Poe.

    But — looking at his collection of videos — he may be a genuine crack-pot.

  • RowanVT

    I’m fascinated that apparently I’m about to take on more debt in order to save a parvo puppy (owner is perfectly willing to buy $300 fancy contact lenses, but not spend $100 on medications to save her puppy) and I’m doing so for evil reasons. Society doesn’t expect me to save this dog at my own expense when I haven’t seen it before today and puppies die from parvo all the time in my area.

    It’s amazing that I don’t do this because I love animals, or because I want to help people such as when I buy large lunches for the local homeless guy every payday. No, being and atheist and therefore evil… I help people and animals with no chance of recognition…. because evil?

  • Moosebites

    Why do I get the impression this is his way of trying to smother his own doubts?

  • Rick

    Christians spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince themselves that atheists are immoral. And, I didn’t bother to watch the video because I’ve heard it all before.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go eat some babies.

    • Jem

      99% of Christians have far, far better things to do with their lives. Plus, people from all kinds of different religions seem to forget that they have counterparts in each other; it’s not like every Christian is fighting actively against all other religions all day, and, Christians, it’s not like atheists spend their whole time slagging off a God they don’t believe in. Most people are pretty ordinary, which sounds stupid, but it’s worth thinking about. That applies to people from any mainstream “thread of belief”.
      I absolutely hate it when people generalise things like this. You may have noticed.

  • Bard

    Hm, could it be a joke?

  • RuQu

    I am an Atheist, and I absolutely DO NOT want anyone to see that video.

    Mostly because the quality of it was simply terrible, the smarmy look on his face, and the creepy way he was constantly doing finger quotes every time he said “good.”

    Also, 5 minutes of idiocy is 5 minutes stolen from your life, and I don’t want to commit nickel and dime murder.

    • Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

      It will take 8.2 million views to waste a span of man-hours equivalent to the current US life expectancy. He has 15,000 views. My estimate is that he is merely responsible for 0.0285199 of a murder.

      • RuQu

        With a minimum sentence of 25 years for murder, and using 365.26 days in a year, does that mean we can lock him up for 260 days?

        • Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

          And people say math can’t be fun!

  • DaveL

    The moment someone gives themselves a moniker that proclaims their own reasonableness, intelligence, logical thinking, etc. you know the odds are good you’ve got a first-class crank on your hands.

  • Jem

    I would like to point out that William Wilberforce and John Newton, who were both absolutely key to abolishing the slave trade, were both very committed Christians; John Newton wrote the hymn “Amazing Grace” and Wilberforce wrote, among other things, the “A Practical View of the Prevailing Religious System ” and An Appeal to the Religion, Justice, and Humanity of the Inhabitants of the British Empire, in Behalf of the Negro Slaves in the West Indies”. So although a lot of injustice has stemmed from religion, granted, a lot of good has come from it too. Before you argue that correcting your own wrongs is hardly proactive goodness, please note that slavery had been present in most cultures, and it was thanks to the revolution in the British Empire, started by Wilberforce, that slavery now is absent and abhorrent in most cultures.

    • Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

      So, um, wooooooo?

      • Jem

        So it’s not quite right to say that Christians endorse slavery…

        • Don Gwinn

          It wouldn’t be right to say that all Christians endorse slavery, no. It would also be unfair to suggest that very many modern Christians consider slavery to be a moral act. Finally, it would be unfair to say that there were not many abolitionists who considered themselves to be doing God’s work by fighting against slavery.

          It is not unfair to state that Yahweh, Jesus Christ, and other major characters in the Jewish and Christian bibles do endorse slavery in those books, and it is not unfair to state that slavery was defended on religious grounds. In a society where the vast majority of the population was at least nominally Christian, the fact that most slavers and most abolitionists were also at least nominally Christian and used Christian ideas to bolster their arguments is not surprising, nor does it necessarily tell us much about Christianity’s position on slavery by itself. But if we resort to reading the Bible . . . . . .

          • http://coreysviews.wordpress.com/category/news-politics-opinions/ Corey Mondello

            Hitler LOVED his bible: see ‘Theologians Under Hitler’ dvd

  • Jem

    If I was an atheist, I’d definitely want people to see this video. It’s like showing an army a picture of a really weedy enemy soldier just before they go into battle.

  • Lewis Price

    The Reverend Daniel Man of Reason have posted a sequel to his ATHEISM IS EVIL video and I think it is worth checking and rebutting again. Here is the URL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLv6utk9hQ

  • Carlos Yanez

    Morality has been shown I not only humans, but in other animals as well. Also religion appear only about 3000 years ago that is almost a second compare to the 160,000 Homo sapiens have been around bitch please. He also dismiss all the bad things that religion has brought to us. Like the inquisition 9/11 etc. Serial killer are people that have abnormal brains therefore they can felt sympathy for anything some of them even use religion as an excuse like Charles Manson. The idea of god establishing a moral code is not solid; due to the fact that morality is independent of God, what if he ask you to kill your son like he has done before that is an evil act since God can’t be all good he should not follow the bible as a moral quote.

    • Joseph O Polanco

      Not to be facetious or anything, however, if you’re taking your cues on what normal behavior is from the realm of irrational beasts why don’t you chop the heads off your partners after sex like the irrational Praying Mantis? Or how about committing dominance rape or having sex with young children as practiced by irrational primates? How about eating your own feces the way irrational pigs, dogs, cows and primates enjoy it? Why shouldn’t it be legal for you to kill and eat babies the way irrational beasts can and do?

  • Pingback: The Evil of Atheism: part II

  • Dirt sailor

    I use to be a die hard Christian. Church turned their backs on me right before I left for Afghan. I tried to reach out, by they finally told me that they didn’t agree with the life I have chosen. WTF?! It had made me question everything. Also seeing what the Islamic religion has done to the people over there. I felt lied to, I felt sad for others but it also opened my eyes, religion is a ball and chain. Many prejudices come from teachings in religions. I’m a little lost on religion. I’m not lost on my opinion on people who are religious and treat others like crap.
    Love the blog though!

  • Joseph O Polanco

    “Imagine a person who comes in here tonight and argues ‘no air exists’ but continues to breathe air while he argues. Now intellectually, atheists continue to breathe – they continue to use reason and draw scientific conclusions [which assumes an orderly universe], to make moral judgments [which assumes absolute values] – but the atheistic view of things would in theory make such ‘breathing’ impossible. They are breathing God’s air all the time they are arguing against him.”

    - Greg Bahnsen


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