Let’s talk about what’s “genuinely sad”.

Joseph Svarty is back.

You guys remind me of Ricardo Montalban as Khan in Star Trek II. Specifically that glorious scenery-chewing death scene, in which the battered, bloodied and dying Khan vents what remains of the hatred in his spleen towards Kirk, misattributing Shakespeare, spitting invectives into space as he drags his broken body across the floor to blow himself up.

You spend all this time throwing rocks at the walls of the Church, your lives animated by seething rage. You don’t understand that which you hate so much, nor do you really care to correct that misunderstanding. You attack and spit upon all which does not conform to the perspective of your warped lens of hate. Not only will you destroy your own lives in the name of your hate, but you’re willing to destroy the lives of others.

It’s sad. Genuinely, tragically sad.

Spare us your pity.  We get to sleep in on Sundays.

You spend all this time throwing rocks at the walls of the Church, your lives animated by seething rage.

A few things here.  First, my life is not consumed entirely of rage.  My fiancee makes me incredibly happy (as does pre-marital sex with her, birth control and all).  I enjoy gaming immensely (and will stomp you at League of Legends).  I also love spending time with my family and quiet walks in the outdoors.  If you think my life is entirely composed of rage, do you think all Ebert ever does is go to the movies?

Second, in the face of an organization that spreads scientific falsehoods (including a Pope who announced that it was the conclusion of science that condoms spread HIV, not hinder the spread of HIV), wastes charitable dollars pushing for legislation that will force others to conform their love lives to the Church’s preference or on bibles to send the poor rather than oranges, and who appoints thoroughly wicked leaders (if you think shielding child rapists and hiding political prisoners from human rights monitors are wicked actions, you cannot disagree with this assessment), along with a host of other crimes against societal well-being, there is but one proper response: rage.  That so many Catholics are not just apathetic, but jubilant in following an organization culpable of all of these makes people like me wonder just what the hell is wrong with your moral compass.  Right now it should be pointing directly to “rage”.  If it isn’t, it’s been mangled by faith.

Rage is the proper emotional reaction to inhumanity.  And when that inhumanity is spread the world over by a corrupt organization that imposes itself with fear of torture (hell), seething rage is just a starting point.  You want to talk about tragically sad?  It’s tragically sad that you’re here defending them, indignant at my rage.

You don’t understand that which you hate so much, nor do you really care to correct that misunderstanding.

I’m sure it would be nice if “you’re wrong” amounted to an argument, but it doesn’t.  In the real world, if you want to change someone’s mind (or just argue responsibly), you need to go with “you’re wrong, here’s why.”  See what I did above?  I helped you to understand exactly why I thought you were wrong.  You have not given me the same courtesy.  Instead, you’ve sneered in the same sentence you practically announced you were failing to live up to the minimal standard of discourse, like chasing me on a tricycle making fun of my Ferrari.

You attack and spit upon all which does not conform to the perspective of your warped lens of hate.

Yes, I oppose the protection of child rapists because I’m full of hate.  Brilliant. Ordinarily, one would think a person would oppose the protecting of child predators while ignoring their victims because they cared about morality and other human beings.  But nope, it’s just because I hate Jesus and Bergoglio and all that is good in the world.  Way to figure that one out, Holmes.

Well, I do hate certain things (see the stuff in the first paragraph of my response).  You should hate them too, Joseph.  And insofar as the Catholic Church is guilty of those things with pride rather than repentance, you should also hate the Catholic Church.  You throw out collections of words like “warped lens of hate” when I don’t think you’ve given any thought into what that means.  Of course I spit on things that operate in opposition to human happiness.  You could also say I spit on the people defending them, like you and Mark Shea.  But when saying “you’re wrong and that matters, here’s why” is the same as being spit on, you essentially have confessed to have grown too soft for human interaction.

In the case of Ratzinger and his aiding and abetting the rapists of children, I am livid and you think I shouldn’t be.  It takes a lot of brass (or a deficiency in compassion) to claim that I’m the warped one.

Not only will you destroy your own lives in the name of your hate, but you’re willing to destroy the lives of others.

And how will my criticism of the Church (or you, or Mark Shea) destroy the lives of others? Again, you gave me no reason to believe this.

If you truly disdain destroying the lives of others, where is your outrage when Ratzinger’s proclamation on HIV and condoms destroys countless lives in third world nations (and even some in civilized nations when people don’t have the presence of mind to ignore your infallible Pope)?  If you think that my criticism of such policies (and my unwillingness to suffer their advocates kindly) is a greater sin than that, then your morality has become so totally fucked by your precious church that you can’t tell up from down in ethical terms.

It’s sad. Genuinely, tragically sad.

No, sad is when people eagerly adopt wicked masters and then go skipping off to prop themselves up as morally superior, all while never justifying a single thing they’ve said.  A warrior for god should be made of nobler stuff, but instead he is indistinguishable from a man bursting with pride about ideas that he adopted immediately through faith rather than thought.

You seem to think that coming here and making undefended assertions of fact and morality makes you a champion instead of a punching bag.  You are simply wrong, and I’ll treat you that way.  As my neighbor here on earth I demand you think instead of just posture.  In doing so, I have a higher estimation of you than the church you so love.

  • pjmaertz

    “Not only will you destroy your own lives in the name of your hate, but you’re willing to destroy the lives of others.”

    I especially enjoyed this line, coming from a guy I’m assuming has to be Catholic. Saying nasty, but true, things on the internet about a religion? Destroying the lives of others. Protecting child rapists and torturers? Spreading god’s love!

  • Art Vandelay

    “Why do you care”? “Why are you so angry”? Zzzzzzz…

    Will our discourse with believers every evolve past this lazy rhetoric? It frustrates me that people still see that an actual trump card.

  • Rain

    I didn’t see where he shows it’s anything but a faerie tale. Maybe that is irrelevant.

  • Randomfactor

    “Why do you care”?
    I’m a human being.

    “Why are you so angry”
    I’m an AWARE human being.

  • baal

    Hi Joseph, I’m an utter weenie (feel my pain!)* when it comes to people who hate irrationally (really my brain tries to follow the emotions and reasons of posts and if it’s irrationally hatey, I have problems). JT is not one of those people.

    Also, please reconsider your mental model of JT and atheists generally. You paint us as anger driven spiteful haters who futilely hurl invective. I’m sure it can seem that way from your point of view. Your mental model, however, is missing a few things. JT and other atheists lead happy lives – see the various posts on how folks had an awesome time at a post convention get together or the latest charity event atheists worked on (google steiful & leukemia). Many of us have been next to you on that wall, looked around for actual truth, found reality and left the wall. We have been there and know what you’re looking at. We left it anyway since the wall (church, erm the metaphor is getting out of hand) is corrupt and leaving broken children everywhere it reaches (google RCC & money laundering, i’ll skip over the global scale of child abuse for this one). Lastly, far from being futile, our efforts and the context of our times is leading to mass departures (I love a pun) from organized religion in the U.S.

    Enjoy your rubble heap, it’s not quite what it once (well never actually) was.

    * Bad arguments also set me off.

  • Winter Toad

    As a long-time Star Trek viewer, I’d just like to point out that Shakespeare did not write Moby Dick. Come on, the camera even holds on the spine of the book in Khan’s shelter on Ceti Alpha V.

    • Nate Frein

      It’s also a fairly accurate use of the quote. The Enterprise (and Kirk) had become Khan’s White Whale, which he pursued, which he pursued to the destruction of everything around him. The only significant difference was he had no Ishmael aboard his ship.

    • Glodson

      To be fair, the guy who wrote that quote also believes god wrote the Bible through man.

  • h1ff

    Badass dude, get ‘em! Your “dismantle and shred” articles are quickly becoming my favorite atheist pieces to read anywhere. Keep it up!

  • Randy Robbins

    I love when a clear-thinking atheist hurls javelins of truth as you have here. It’s just that I have heard so many debates with religious fucktards in which none of these javelins hit home. They merely ignore every excellent point and continue on unimpeded. It is literally impossible to get them to acknowledge any of their warped view points.

  • Joseph Svarty

    I love that I can poke a stick in the atheist cage and watch your heads explode. More fun than a barrel of monkeys!

    I’ll admit to the botched Khan reference. That’s an embarrassing misstep. I was thinking about the line from ST VI, when the Klingon chancellor says to Kirk “You’ve not experienced Shakespeare until you’ve read him in the original Klingon.” My bad.

    Still, I’m flattered you would take that much time out of your day to give me a whole post. I could smell the piss and vinegar from here. Not that you’re angry or anything…

    • Loqi

      If the worst thing you can say about us is that we’re angry, we should be pretty proud of ourselves. Ypu’re in a group that condones child rape and murder by ignorance, while I’m in a group that is angry about it. Which of us is a better human being?

  • Joseph Svarty

    One more thing:

    For someone so concerned about inhumanity in the word, why are you so silent regarding the persecution of Kermit Gosnell in Philadelphia? He’s helping women! He’s helping the poor! Are you not outraged at the unfair attacks upon his character and his work?

    • Nate Frein

      Kermit Gosnell is an unfortunate symptom of the ridiculous abortion laws in the United States.

      I also find it funny that you’re asking us why we’re not doing the same thing Catholics do who sit and try to praise the Catholic church for all the good it does while sweeping under the rug stuff like pedophile priests and homophobia.

  • Joseph Svarty

    Define “unfortunate.”

    • Nate Frein
      • Joseph Svarty

        In other words, you cannot validate your claim that Dr. Gosnell is a victim of “ridiculous” abortion laws. Good to know atheists can dodge, too.

        • Loqi

          What? How did you reach that conclusion? You asked for a definition of “unfortunate,” and he provided the source for his definition. How is that a dodge?

        • Nate Frein

          I didn’t say he was a “victim”.

          I said he was a symptom.

        • Nate Frein

          Just like, you know, child-diddling priests are a symptom of the top-down “hierarchy first” attitude of the Catholic church.

  • Joseph Svarty

    Sorry…he’s a “symptom” who’s being victimized by unjust persecution. Why will you not defend him?

    …and when will you attack the top-down hierarchy of Sesame Workshop for their complicity regarding Kevin Clash?

    • Nate Frein

      Sorry…he’s a “symptom” who’s being victimized by unjust persecution. Why will you not defend him?

      I’m having a harder and harder time believing that you’re honestly this obtuse.
      He’s not a “victim” of anything. What he did was wrong. No one here has tried to say he did a good thing.

      …and when will you attack the top-down hierarchy of Sesame Workshop for their complicity regarding Kevin Clash?

      Here’s the thing about the Kevin Clash situation: It went exactly how it should have. Allegations were made. Clash’s employers acted on those allegations as soon as they were made aware of them. They made no attempt to silence the accuser or to move Clash out of the limelight or hide the whole situation away.

      But then, I guess if you’re a true Catholic, you think the Penn State method of dealing with rape allegations is better?

      • hotshoe

        No, if you’re a true Catholic like sorry Svarty, you don’t even thing there was any such thing as “rape” going on – you think it was all those sinful children seducing those innocent men. Every single one of those children deserves every bad thing that happens to them, and more, because they’re sinners in the eyes of god. And god, well, god just couldn’t give the men any moral fiber to resist the temptation to have sex with those seductive children because, well, just because, shut up atheists.

        Okay, I admit that I don’t know if sorry Svarty personally believes that or not, but it is a typical and approved statement from the leaders of the unholy motherfucking Church. Okay, I also admit that the Poop himself did not pronounce such a statement infallibly from his throne, but he has not contradicted nor scolded those corrupt bishops and cardinals of his church who did make exactly those statements.

        They should all pray to die from the shame of their immorality. Too bad so few of ‘em actually believe in the god, heaven, and hell that they constantly harangue us about.

    • hotshoe

      Jesus fucking christ, Svarty, is this the best you can do? The best defense you can make of your corrupt fucking leaders is to sputter “but but but some other guy is a rapist, too” ?? Seriously – that’s your idea of an adequate response?

      You sure are a sorry sack.


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