Seriously…a documentary about how Christians are persecuted.

This is simultaneously hilarious and depressing.  Hilarious that Christians, who hold almost every seat in our government and who are the vast majority of our citizens can convince themselves that they are oppressed.  Depressing that the thinking capacity of the children in the promo has been so warped by propaganda.

Never has a battle so vacant of any epic elements been set to such epic music.

I don’t even know where to start.  The list of gripes is so detached from reality that this may as well be a documentary about fashioning chocolate bunnies into daggers to fight back five-legged invisible unicorns who are coming to steal our batteries.  Why won’t America get on board with this cause????  Well, because the things you worry about aren’t real.

 ”Christianity is being completely frozen out of America.”

First line of the promo and already off to a bad start.  There are churches everywhere that you can attend.  You can walk up to people on the street like an asshole and tell them they’re destined for hellfire.  Nobody can stop you.  What you cannot do is have the government endorse your religion.  This is the same statute that keeps the government from interfering with your religion (which is why you have the freedom to attend church, start a church, read the bible or the koran, etc.).  Not having the government give its official nod to your faith is not the same as freezing it out, and only somebody entirely ignorant of how the law actually treats religion (or somebody who doesn’t care about making any sense) could think otherwise.

“Why can’t I pray in school?”

You can.  Test it.  The next test you have, bow your head and say a prayer before the test (don’t do it during the time when everybody is supposed to be quiet, because that’s when all noise is prohibited, not just prayer).  I guess you’ve won and don’t need to go on with the rest of the documentary.  Congratulations!  I know exactly how a victory like that can feel.  This very morning I fought for my right to eat corn flakes for breakfast.  The government trembled before my determination and relented.

It definitely wasn’t because I already had the right for which I was fighting.

“Why do I have to check my religion at the door?”

You don’t.  Congrats.  This can actually be a form of special privilege in itself.  While a student threatening to beat up another student after class will be punished, you can actually threaten a student with eternal, maximum pain after life and have nothing happen.  Your threats get a free pass because they’re religious.

For extra irony kid, go watch later in the promo where some of your fellow brave Christian warriors reading lines off a cue card and fighting non-existent threats complain about bullying.

“Why can’t I write about god in my school papers?”

You can, so long as it’s germane to the topic at hand.  If the paper you’re writing is on solar power and you write about how Jesus died for your sins, expect an F for not tackling the course material, not because you think Jesus is watching us shower.

“Why do I have to tolerate people cursing my god, but I’m not allowed to talk about god and my faith?”

You are allowed to talk about god and your faith.  Go ahead and test it.

“Why are they taking god out of my history books?”

I’m unaware of any case where this happened, but even if it did, they’re probably taking god out of your history books for the same reason I take moldy bread out of my cupboard: it seemed like a good idea at the time, but now it’s obvious that it doesn’t belong there.  God is simply not a part of our history.  What religious people have done is a part of our history, but there’s no good evidence that a god has ever done anything.

So history books can say “The Catholic Church had a habit of burning scholars for contradicting the church’s dogma”, but they cannot say “God commanded the Catholic Church to burn scholars at the stake.”  See the difference?

“Why do they teach every other theory in science except creation?”

Because creationism is not a scientific theory.  The brightest lights in creationism have had multiple chances to prove otherwise, but their efforts have been lacking.  At any point a creationist is permitted to submit their hypothesis to the process of peer review.  This is the gauntlet through which all ideas must pass before they are accepted as scientific fact and inserted into our textbooks.  Indeed, some creationists have done this, but it was determined that their work was founded upon (very, very, very) bad science.  If creationism were a defensible theory that had survived peer review, you’d be learning about god’s existence just as sure as you learn about the existence of atoms.  But creationism has failed to live up to the test.

There was even a trial in Dover, Pennsylvania over the issue.  Many of creationism’s icons got subpoenaed to appear.  However, faced with their chance to defend creationism, to defend all of the stuff they are so eager to tell layman like yourselves, most of them didn’t even show up.  Michael Behe, the one who had the gumption to attend, got shredded and the court ruled that creationism is not science.

Don’t blame atheists for the absence of creationism in your curriculum.  Blame the defenders of creationism for not stepping up to the plate like other scientists.

“Why am I called names because I believe in marriage the way god designed it?”

First, do you have any evidence that god designed marriage the way you say?

Second, beliefs aren’t sacred.  Beliefs can actually be bigoted and callous.  If you’d asked “Why am I called names because I believe in slavery the way god designed it?”, the answer would be that what you consider “calling names” is actually an accurate assessment of your position.  Slavery is not fair and bad for society, so regardless of why you believe in it, you’re an asshole and a bigot.

Ditto with marriage equality.  You’re free to believe that marriage is appropriately between one man and one woman – nobody’s insisting you marry a dude.  But you want others to kowtow to your preference and then piss and moan about oppression when they don’t.  And if you think equality should be restricted, even if you think god commanded it, then just like with racism you’re an asshole and a bigot.

There’s a reason we have sayings like “If the shoe fits….”  If you don’t want to be called a plumber, stop fixing pipes.  If you don’t want to be called a cop, stop wearing a badge.  And if you don’t want to be called a bigot, stop advocating policies and laws that restrict the freedom of people who aren’t like you.  Don’t just whine that you’re called a bigot, stop being a fucking bigot (and tell your parents to stop too).  If you don’t want to be labeled as an agent of inequality, stop insisting our government canonize inequality in our laws.

Christ, this isn’t hard.

“In public school I’m called gay for wanting to save myself for marriage.”

Yeah, kids can be assholes.  Just like the Christians calling the gay students a faggot.  But kids being assholes doesn’t amount to freezing Christianity out of America.

“In public school people are rude and disrespectful toward Christians.”

Really?  What people?  Perhaps you could email Jessica Ahlquist for sympathy.  She got death threats from her classmates for asking her school to obey the law (a judge ruled that her school was, in fact, breaking the law).  She was so bullied (by Christians) she had to have a police escort at her school.  What slings and arrows must Christians endure?

Do you mean other students are rude and disrespectful?  So fucking what?  If I were a student in your school I’d be entirely disrespectful of Christianity.  You don’t have a right to be respected, and if you’re running around telling people they’ll burn forever if they don’t do what you say, you’re lucky to only get away with a “fuck you” for that kind of threat.  The same right that guarantees you the right to say Jesus is grand guarantees other people the right to say you’re gullible as all hell if you believe someone rose from the dead.  And Santa.

Free speech is actually at the very bedrock of America.  It’s not freezing religion out to give people the freedom to verbally disrespect other people and ideas, it’s adherence to the country’s founding principles.

“Bullying is common.”

Yes, the majority gets so bullied.

You know who gets bullied in high school?  Minorities.  Gays, atheists, people who aren’t deemed “cool” enough.  These are the demographics that have higher suicide rates in their teens due to bullying (much of which is perpetrated by Christians).  And we can tell gays and atheists (and other minority demographics) have higher rates only by using groups like Christians as a basis for comparison.  Who the hell is bullying the Christians?  Other Christians?  How does that work?  Does the bully pound on you for believing in Jesus and then punch himself for the same crime?

If the assailant in this video were asked if Jesus were the son of god, and you had to bet your life savings on the answer, how would you bet?  I’ll give you some hints: most Americans are Christian, and the hatred of homosexuals seems to be almost exclusive to the faithful.  That should make your decision really fucking easy.

“People make fun of me because I don’t believe in abortion.”

It exists, I promise.

And even if I believed this girl, again, so fucking what?  People making fun of you does not mean Christianity is being systematically removed from America.  It just means people can be jerks.  This just in: we all have to deal with assholes.  Not all of us extend this into “I’m in the majority and over-represented in our government, but the government is still out to get me!”

I’m done with this video.  Seriously, it’s a documentary about how the vast majority is oppressed.  You might as well send a documentary to sub-Saharan Africa about how much it sucks to not have your favorite flavor of ice cream in the fridge.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553145445 Gordon Duffy

    So, ratings are disabled, no suprise there

  • Art_Vandelay

    Are you sure The Onion didn’t produce this?

    • Quentin Long

      sez li’l randy morrison:

      There are many places in the world where Christians are being killed.

      Yes. There are. Given that the video referenced in the OP is about what’s supposedly happening in America, a nation where 70-odd % of the populace is Xtian, and 90-odd % of all Government officials are, likewise, Xtian, I have to ask: What’s your point, if any?

      I have had atheists in Kansas City laugh in my face over it.

      How sad for you. If only those atheists were been as kind and understanding and compassionate as Xtians are, they might have merely declared you to be a subhuman thing who’s going to burn in unspeakable torment for all eternity, as opposed to (oh, the inhumanity of it all!) laughing in your face!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Hall/100002128035829 Brian Hall

        the first part yes but also atheist are getting killed in other places of the world.
        the second part there are people who are atheist who don’t apear to be mean or nasty, you might have met one and never known it… I’m not joking hear… I help people for a living… on the last comment your not talking about a atheist your talking about a anti-theist. not all atheist are anti-theist.

        • Nate Frein

          the first part yes but also atheist are getting killed in other places of the world.

          We’re well aware of that. it’s not germane to this video because the children in this video will probably never actually face that kind of persecution. Ever.

          the second part there are people who are atheist who don’t apear to be mean or nasty, you might have met one and never known it… I’m not joking hear… I help people for a living… on the last comment your not talking about a atheist your talking about a anti-theist. not all atheist are anti-theist.

          That whiffing sound? That’s you missing the point.

    • Glodson

      There are many places in the world where Christians are being killed.

      Yes, there are. And it isn’t happening in the fucking United States of American, and with the majority of politicians being Christian, as well as 70% of the population, and the nature of the Constitutional protections that many of us take seriously, it isn’t going to happen anytime soon. This statement of yours is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the thesis of the video. We know that horrible things happen to people because of their religion in some areas. That’s a cause for concern. That is a function of the nasty tribalism that humans can display, in multiple facets.

      To co-opt the suffering and deaths of Christians suffering at the hands of oppressors in order to defend a piece that sells the Christian persecution complex in the US because we won’t let them enforce there religion onto us is absurd and insulting to those actually suffering.

      I have had atheists in Kansas City laugh in my face over it.

      Hmmm… then…

      Especially one little vicious one in KC

      Is it atheists or atheist? Besides the point. This is so wrong when we include the next part of your screed.

      That tells me what atheists would do to me if they had the power…as it
      is they try to smear my friends and make subtle threats.

      So many errors. Tu quoque, poisoning the well, two from Composition and Division: Over-generalization and Spotlight, slippery slope.

      All those from those little statements. You mistake the qualities of a few you know for the general qualities of the larger group, and in particular spotlight the statement of one person in order to smear the group. By doing so, you try to cast all atheists in a poor light, thus trying to preemptively smear anything an atheist said based on this cherry picking of data. You also seem to think that being somewhat rude leads to treats in your effort to support your persecution fantasy. Then you finally seem to believe this justifies your asinine behavior as you believe the other side to be at some sort of fault.

      This isn’t for your benefit, but I believe others could learn from this. Chiefly, how to not be so intellectually dishonest as you.

      • randall.morrison90

        I am banned for general inanity and derailing threads, but saw a glimmer of hope when all of JT’s banned IPs got removed in the Disqus transfer.

        But JT sees my comment, and now it’s edited to have me coming in here to admit that I touch myself while reading the bible. Song of Solomon, baby. mmmmMMMMmmm…

        • Nate Frein

          Given that the movement in the U.S. is a back and forth between secularization and a xtian theocracy…No, I don’t think you’re going to end up persecuted any time soon.

          Having undefended assertions (ergo ridiculous beliefs) laughed at isn’t “persecution”. Those countries where xtians are being persecuted? It’s by other authoritarian religions and cults (like cults of personality).

          But I’m pretty sure you know that. I’m pretty sure, judging by your other posts here and in other threads, that you’re a deliberately obtuse, lying troll.

          In other words, you’re being a “good Christian”. Like so many other “good Christians” we get on this blog. Keep representing!

    • JTEberhard

      Sorry guys. Morrison is banned and he knows it (all my IPs got lost when they switched to Disqus).

      Disqus also apparently doesn’t give me the ability to edit banned comments Uncle Bobolink-style. Lame!

      • Nate Frein

        I wrote up a response while you cleaned up. I kinda like it, and I’d like to go ahead and post it here, but it’s your blog so if you don’t want me to (or just don’t respond) I won’t.

      • Glodson

        Ah. But it so rare to get one so delusional.

        Seriously though, he really added nothing and seems to be a bit out of his depth and out of sorts.

      • Loqi

        Seriously? You are fanning the flames of my hatred for Disqus.

  • Tel

    It says at some point, “People tell dirty jokes everywhere. The hall. The classroom. Before school. After school. On the bus. Off the bus.” (I haven’t gone looking for the exact quote again.) Firstly, you could not hang out with those people, or you could respectfully ask them to stop (though you can’t make them stop), but secondly…

    Telling dirty jokes is Christian persecution?

    • Nate Frein

      How many of those people telling dirty jokes are Christian themselves?

      • kagekiri

        Lots, much to the shame of the particularly snobby Christians like those in the video. I say this as a former king snob to my “less religious” Christian friends, and I bemoaned the “bad witness” of all those “lukewarm” Christians.

        I even managed to guilt-trip some of them into at least not doing it when I was around, much to my pride then and my shame now.

        Yay for Christian censorship of stuff they don’t like. And by “yay,” I mean “ugh.”

    • Glodson

      Telling dirty jokes is Christian persecution?

      Can be.

      Did you know that the Jesus wasn’t a virgin when he died? He got totally nailed.

      • Art_Vandelay
        • islandbrewer

          +1,000,000

        • http://www.facebook.com/brett.williams.71 Brett Williams

          Art, good sir, you win all my internets

        • Tim

          Yes, a thousand times YES!

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        You know how God was so angry and jealous and horrible in the Old Testament, and then he was all mellow, forgiving, and just generally chill in the New Testament?

        What changed?

        God got laid.

        • Glodson

          So… the Old Testament could be called “The 4,000 Year Old Virgin”?

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            Oh, no, God’s way older than 4,000 years old. In fact, since God is eternal, the amount of time he’s not been a virgin (2,000 yrs) is so much smaller than the infinite amount of time he was a virgin that it approaches zero.

            The Old Testament should be called “The Eternal Virgin” instead :P

          • Glodson

            Ah so the limit of god losing his virginity as t goes to infinity is zero.

            Now that’s one nerdy and blasphemous joke.

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            :)

          • http://twitter.com/Thundertit Rev Chilli

            ETERNAL YEW SAY! YEW EVILUTION LOVING HEATHREN! GOD IS ONLY 10,000 YEARS AND 8 DAYS OLD!!!

      • Glodson

        We are making fun of the mythology, you half-wit.

        This is called blasphemy. We are making fun of the fictitious ideas presented by a book on a few thousand year old myths.

        The Semitic people are people. We’ve not talked about people. It would be like saying that by insulting Harry Potter, we were maligning British people. Jesus, God, and Harry Potter are the same, in that they are all made up.

        • Nate Frein

          [citation needed]

        • Glodson

          I make fun of Christian mythology, and that’s hating on the Jewish people, which is an ethnic group that more shares a cultural past?

          No wonder JT banned you, it was a mercy ban for your sake.

  • http://www.facebook.com/davemuscato Dave Muscato

    Excellent post; thanks for this. That video is ridiculous.

  • TGAP Dad

    I’m reminded of Ben Stein’s unintentionally hilarious debacle Expelled!. A bunch of christians complaining that they have been oppressed simply for being christian. They should study the history of Ancient Rome, where they would learn what REAL oppression of christians looks like.

  • neatospiderplant

    Huh, with all the emphatic hand gestures, they must be right!

  • Glodson

    This movie should have a warning that it may cause concussions in anyone who understands what the word persecuted actually means.

  • JasmynMoon

    About a minute in, I started imagining the Kids in the Hall over acting and making these silly claims. Picturing Scott Thompson in drag and being over-dramatic made this video far more entertaining.

    • Little Magpie

      OMG that was a great mental image. THANK YOU! (KitH rock,)

  • http://twitter.com/sqlrob Rob

    “Why am I called names because I believe in marriage the way god designed it?”

    You believe in having several hundred wives and sex slaves? Yeah, that’s worthy of being called names.

    • kagekiri

      No, no, not THAT design, the ORIGINAL(TM) one.

      A.k.a., the Adam and Eve version: magically cloning yourself, except as a different gender, essentially making it some super-weird self-incest, and all your kids screw each other. That’s the amazing kinky goodness of the Bible!

      Also good? Having sex with both of your daughters to father offspring, or searching for a cousin to marry, just like good old Abraham and Lot and their families.

      Oooooh, or the main marriage in the New Testament: Jesus is the groom, and his church the bride!

      A.k.a., a husband and his many wives (and men as wives or at least married to a male deity..wait, and these people are still homophobic..?). Heaven will be a massive orgy, and everyone, man or woman, will be fellati…..I mean, worshiping Jesus! We were created for His pleasure, after all!

    • http://twitter.com/Thundertit Rev Chilli

      I’d ask, hey, you want to marry me in a biblical way? No? I got 50 Shekels that says you will. Deuteronomy 22:28-29

  • Kodie

    People misunderstanding primarily how the freedom of speech works – it means the government can’t hang you for saying you hate the president. If you want to say you hate me, you also don’t get hanged, but you do not have the right to have me listen to you. So it is with religion. I think and hope they are perceiving a lack of interest in what they have to say, and disagreement with the things that they say from private citizens. The government, state by state, is ruling against their beliefs regarding marriage equality, for example. What they don’t like realizing is how most people in most states, and including the president, overrule their wishes, and this does make their opinion about some things stand in the minority. If marriage were simply a custom ritual performed in churches and left at that, anyone else could freely adopt the custom, just like we have customs for housewarmings, welcoming babies into families, and funerals. Would they say a gay person couldn’t have a housewarming party because, let’s imagine, that custom originated with Christianity? The government issues certification of marriage and records the event for posterity, and not only that, it’s a system of welfare. Heterosexual couples cannot have exclusive rights to the government-issued benefit of being married. Either way, it’s nothing against Christianity to share their customary benefit – i.e. the benefit of being a Christian, as far as I can tell – with other people. They do not have a problem with, outside of their churches, people of other faiths marrying one another, so long as they are heterosexual. They do not have a problem with old people who aren’t going to have children getting married, and while they do seem to have an opinion about younger couples who choose not to have children, they aren’t barred from marrying either. Just homosexuals are excluded. I am not going to take on all the other examples where their opinions are illegal and becoming unpopular.

    What they feel this is against them is fear that, ultimately, they can’t stigmatize gay people. The way society is going, they are being outnumbered, and people are arguing against them. This has nothing to do with the government infringing their free beliefs or their free speech. It’s actually how little their opinion carries influence in modern society that they are complaining about. Good.

  • islandbrewer

    Holy crap! It’s hard to find statements in that piece that aren’t strawmen or just plain falsehoods.

  • JKPS

    A lot of these poor kids are going to grow up and look back at these and feel like such assholes. When I was in the 9th/10th grade, I gave a paper on the evils of cohabitation and somehow tied it into the evil of transsexuals. In the 8th grade, I wrote a paper on the evils of abortion. And I was so proud of the paper, I kept it. In fact, I think I might still have it!

    (Yes, this was religious schooling.)

    • kagekiri

      Yeah, I feel like an asshole: I was a kid exactly like this. And I don’t even have a religious schooling excuse: I only attended public schools my entire life.

      I was the holier than thou snob who argued against dating before marriage (and obviously, any physical relationship, even hugging/kissing), who thought abortion was murder and if you didn’t want a baby, you shouldn’t have sex.

      I was the Christian who looked down on other Christians as not being different enough from “the world”, who disliked all “secular” music (aka anything not about God).

      I was the one who felt persecuted when called a bigot and a homophobe “just” because I believed homosexuality was wrong.

      I was the one offended when people used God’s name in vain or sweared (“jeez obviously is short for Jesus! that’s using it in VAIN!!!”).

      I was the Christian who disbelieved in evolution and believed the biology curriculum was lying to us about creation, hiding and distorting the truth.

      I was the one who felt so offended on behalf of a Christian girl who was being bad-mouthed in gossip for being too preachy and too zealous for her religion. “Oh lord, how the world hates the best Christians!”

      As for the “making fun of the abstinent as gay people”, I was definitely made fun of….by my cousin, a fellow Christian, and other people at church trying to fish for answers as to why I lacked a girlfriend. And they did it by questioning whether I was gay, which I was quite offended by at the time, as I was a homophobe.

      Now, as an anti-theist who finally has his head out of his ass, I see that the times I was bullied for just being a shy, awkward kid were far, far worse than any perceived religious persecution for holding my homophobic and puritanical beliefs loudly and in public.

      Being called evil and sinful and unloving for being an atheist by my Christian family isn’t fun, though. And hearing other Christians (who don’t know I’m an atheist) whine about not being able to “say Merry Christmas without being fired”, or how gay people are perverting the government, and all sorts of rather familiar, self-martyring crap, I cringe knowing how real the persecution felt at the time, and seeing how ridiculous it looks from the outside.

      I understand those people, and I know how hard they’ll hold onto their stupid, circular, rationalized beliefs. My beliefs had to threaten my life before I could even consider examining any religious doubts.

      Sorry, got a little ranty and off topic as a response.

      • Beutelratti

        Off topic can be very refreshing sometimes, I always find it quite comforting to see that some fundamentalists can and do change their minds. So thank you for sharing that. ^^

        • Jasper

          It’s funny (not as in ha ha) that we get accused of being closed minded, even though so many of us have already changed our minds on a fairly important topic.

      • JKPS

        Ranty and off-topic is good! And you summarized the other viewpoint very well. Also it’s good to know I’m not the only one who feels like an asshole.

  • Art_Vandelay

    What’s whole pojnt of the cross toppling over after it finally gets thawed out? Isn’t it supposed to be victorious or something after the thaw? Who directed this shit?

  • Baby_Raptor

    Gotta love the martyrbaters. It’s all MEMEMEME oh woe is me, I can’t do exactly what I want, everyone else be damned.

    Even when they *can* do exactly what they want.

    • http://www.facebook.com/park.james.102 Park James

      I love the term martyrbater. I will be using that whenever possible.

    • kagekiri

      Hey, I take offense at that bit about “martyrbation”!

      How dare you compare the pleasant act of masturbation with disgusting and pointless false martyr complexes!?

      And at least most people do their masturbation in private or with consenting partners: this martyrdom crap is much more like getting off on public defecation.

      /snark

      But yeah, I used to denounce this blathering about persecution as a bit of religious auto-fellatio….til I realized, wait, what’s even wrong with auto-fellatio? That’s more useful than religion, though nearly as impossible.

  • Michael

    Dont’ forget, “The Bible is unconstitutional,” my personal favorite.

  • sparkyb

    I’m confused about the part where they complain about having sex ed,
    claiming it starts too young, and that what they are shown is
    pornographic. It would be one thing to claim that their sex ed classes
    encourage promiscuity and immoral behavior, but that’s not what they’re saying. And unlike the teaching of evolution, they’re not saying any of the facts about the biology of sex/reproduction/disease are wrong. So are they really arguing that it is wrong to know what they don’t disagree is the truth? “Yeah, that’s how my body works, but it is obscene that you would want me to know it.”

    • Beutelratti

      “No, it does not give me pleasure when my clitoris is being stimulated. Stop pretending it does!11!!11!!!!”

    • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.panger Lisa Panger

      That’s their parents talking. Kids didn’t write this, they are being used. It’s so obvious.

      • Nohm

        The kids may have written it, but I have little question that this all comes from statements that trusted authority figures have been telling them, and NOT from their own personal experiences.

  • Jasper

    There’s a reason why I’m starting to call these people “Opposite Worlders”… because their view on reality is the exact opposite of how it actually is. Faith is evidence. Evidence is faith. Creationism is science, and evolution isn’t. Christians are persecuted and non-Christians aren’t.

    This article is making the rounds too, where a minister is embarrassingly oblivious to the crap atheists go through.

    http://genemims.com/athiests-and-unicorns/

    • Aaron Rosenberg

      I like your unique terminology!

  • http://www.facebook.com/park.james.102 Park James

    Hahahaha holy shit those kids are oblivious. Complaining that Christians are perceived as boring while talking so slowly and with so little inflection that I can’t tell if they understand what the words they’re saying mean, while complaining about sex and swearing, wholly confirms the stereotype they complain about. Also, because I don’t want children to be stoned to death for disrespecting their parents, I’m glad schools schools aren’t following the ten commandments.

  • ShaunPhilly

    This is very similar to the Battle Cry movement from around 7 years ago or so. I attended one of their events (run by Ron Luce’s Teen Mania Ministries) in 2006 and wrote a response article to it then, which was published in a few places (including the old RRS site; it can be seen here: http://www.rationalresponders.com/an_atheist_yankee_in_ron_luces_court_my_visit_to_battle_cry).

    But in this case, it’s not just about creating a Christian alternative to the secular world, it’s about doing it in the name of persecution. It’s quite sickening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sam-Salerno/1468204658 Sam Salerno

    I just want to thank you JT. That was quite gratifying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Cliff-Smith/670725148 Cliff Smith

    Yet again the YouTube page is set to totally disabled so no one can express an opinion on the video. Bit like the load street corner preacher who when questioned about his claims sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts LA-LA-LA-LA at the top of his voice.

    • Nohm

      Additionally, any comments made to status posts on their Facebook page that do not obviously support the group are deleted.

      I had written three different comments there, with no blasphemy or vulgarity or anything like that, and they’ve all been deleted.

  • Pingback: Seriously…a documentary about how Christians are persecuted. | Gregg Rowe

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  • http://www.facebook.com/justin.m.chase Justin Chase

    Oh please don’t stop there :) Keep going.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1335784639 Lance Christian Johnson

    Christians ARE persecuted.

    In North Korea, the Middle East, some African countries…

    Those are the ones they’re talking about, right?

  • http://www.facebook.com/fred.leland.3 Fred Leland

    There isn’t a piece of cheese big enough for this amount of whine. The first amendment protects speech you don’t like, lets you speak your mind, but doesn’t protect you from criticism. Christians aren’t controlling the market of ideas anymore so we’re suppose to think of them as victims? Cry me a river. And seriously, what’s up with the token black kid in this pod of Stepford children? Yeah this really represents America.

  • SecularHumanist199

    These asshats don’t know what it is to be persecuted. I was raised Jewish and was in elementary school in Florida when school prayer was still allowed. Do they get beaten up every Easter by kids whose priests have exhorted them about Jews being christ killers? Do they get beaten up at all in school for being christian? I think not. I know what real religious persecution is, and preventing you from persecuting others or imposing your nonsensical beliefs on others ain’t it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.panger Lisa Panger

    What concerns me is that I believe the kids in this video are being exploited and used to amass other kids and convince them that they are also being persecuted. It’s very Nazi-like. This rhetoric does not come from kids. It’s tired old crap that I hear from the mouths of staunch gun toting conservatives. Now they’re using kids. The “army” thing really convinces me of that. Very “Jesus camp” if you ask me. I bet ten to one, the script was written by an adult.

    • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.kohler.338 Andrew Kohler

      The fact that these dour bigots are turning their children into a brainwashed army is despicable, and very disturbing to witness.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.panger Lisa Panger

    The first step in cult-dom is creating an “us vs them” environment.

    • Nohm

      Note that at one point a girl talks about “our god”.

  • HandmaidenOfEris

    Children of the corn.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ayame-Sohma/100002225988462 Ayame Sohma

    Great expose, JT! I can’t wait for it to come out. Everyone needs their daily dose of black humour, after all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.a.bender Mark Bender

    REACH AMERICA (website): http://letsreachamerica.org/

    Pastor Gary Brown of Coeur d’Alene is the founder president Reach America. He is the mastermind of this operation and the video The Thaw.

    Openly anti-gay Ron Vieselmeyer is on the board of directors of Reach America. Here’s a little background.

    “Ron Vieselmeyer, a former lawmaker form Coeur d’Alene and family counselor, said he’s studied gays and lesbians. They are suicidal, guilt-ridden sex addicts from who the state must protect us, just as it defends us from terrorists, gangs and drunken drivers, he said.” This is the man who Brown introduced Friday as his “mentor.”
    http://may-chang.com/?p=1973

    Gary Brown is in cahoots with Bryan Fischer, by the way. He took over Fischer’s spot as president of Idaho Values Alliance (IVA).

    Gary Brown is also president of Bryan Fischer’s old home, IVA.
    http://www.idahovaluesalliance.com/2010/09/a-message-from-bryan-fischer/

    Pastor Gary Brown’s Reach America YouTube page
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Conversationswithpg/

    The “views” of the children reportedly stem from this report on Fox Radio:
    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/teens-decide-to-fight-back-against-anti-christian-bullies.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.kohler.338 Andrew Kohler

      Why ever would gays and lesbians feel guilt-ridden? Maybe because they were raised around people like Ron Vieselmeyer who told them that they are terrible people? And if this entire group is suicidal, then why are there so many of us who are presently alive (enough to constitute a risk comparable to drunk drivers, gangs, and terrorists) ? And as to the sex addiction claim, it’s too blatantly false and scurrilous even to bother with it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheJudgeJoker Michael Betke

    This video has nothing to do with Christianity. Using the umbrella word like Christianity is a good way to confuse individuals, and this is a mere propaganda tactic. This “documentary” is for Creationists, not Christians as a whole such as Protestants or Roman Catholics. Creationists, bear in mind, are made fun of by most of Christianity as a whole, as well as they blindly believe, no offense but I don’t want a willingly ignorant teacher teaching my kids. Which is why Creationist teaching isn’t allowed in schools. There are so many “facts” in this video that aren’t even true. I’m not American but we study American history in our class rooms. One thing we all know is “Separation of church and state”. America was not founded as a “Christian” nation, and definitely not as a Creationist nation. They should take this fraud of a documentary and shove it back where it came from, unless theirs no more room because of their head.

    • Glodson

      Hate to tell you, but that’s a Scotsman.

      Yes, this is not representative of all Christians, or even all Creationists. Not all Christians who buy into the persecution complex are Creationists, and not all Creationists buy into the persecution complex, and not all Creationists are Christians, and not all Christians are Creationists.

      Yes, there’s a great deal of overlap in these groups in the US. But these people who make these videos and buy into them are Christians.

      I can quibble a bit about this not being about Christianity. It is, just not about the theology. But rather, the mindset and culture that some Christians share. The persecution complex is a part of their identity, just as the Christian Nation and American Exceptionalism ideas are part of it. These are all feeding together, and this is an expression of their religion and privilege.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.kohler.338 Andrew Kohler

    “Why do I have to tolerate people cursing my god, but I’m not allowed to talk about god and my faith?”

    Note the implication here: “Why do I have to tolerate people cursing
    my god” is tantamount to “Why is there this awful First Amendment in
    the USA that prevents us from having blasphemy laws and throwing atheist
    bloggers in jail?”

    To address the substance (if one wishes to be so generous as to call it that) of this complaint: In any context in which people “curse” your god (whatever that means) you may talk about your faith. In any context in which you are “not allowed to about god and [your] faith”–for example when it would disrupt and/or derail classroom discussions–no one else is allowed to blaspheme. And as JT notes, writing about Jesus dying for our sins for an assignment on solar power would get you an F, but for the same reasons that writing about Benjamin Britten’s use of twelve-tone rows on such an assignment would get you an F. Not being able to change the topic of your papers to be about your religion (or whatever else you want) is not an example of being persecuted, dear. And if you want your education to include religious indoctrination, you’ll have to try something other than public school.

    One more thing: “frozen out” ?? If something is frozen, it stays where it is, unless transported by someone else. Are we supposed to imagine people coming with liquid nitrogen and turning religious leaders into icicles and then carting them off to refrigeration units?

    • Nate Frein

      “Frozen out” is actually an accepted usage. Basically, it describes creating a “chilly” environment for someone or some group, making it clear that said people are unwanted without physically forcing them away.

      • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.kohler.338 Andrew Kohler

        Oh, thanks Nate–I’d not heard that one before. I was, however, thinking about how the time immediately after Stalin’s death in the Soviet Union was called “the thaw.” I wonder if they were alluding to that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrew.kohler.338 Andrew Kohler

    Or, how about the people who don’t say the Pledge for religious reasons? And why are these Christians so concerned with the Pledge of Allegiance!? Where are the virtues of America extolled in the Bible again? Bringing me to:

    “People who do not love our god have stolen our country.”

    American = GOOD. Christianity = GOOD. Therefore America = Christianity and Christianity = America ! The message here: how dare these people who aren’t Christian insist that they be treated the same as us true Americans?

    That poor child who says “We are going to let our little American lights shine” could not have given a worse line delivery without serious effort. It sounds like he’s been forced into this by his parents and doesn’t really get what’s going on.

    And “Christ-centered counterculture” !? And this is a WAR? How lovely to see children recruited as combatants. And how very ironic that they go on to quote the Declaration of Independence: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…for people who believe like us.

    “If God be for us who can be against us?” Well, quite a few people, dear; visit the Atheist Blogosphere. Just because Handel wrote a gorgeous aria on that text (penultimate number in Messiah) doesn’t mean it should be taken seriously.

  • Alice

    “WHYYYY can’t I…!?!”

    Easy, because you are the whiniest group of kids ever and you’re old enough to know better.

  • Nohm

    Three things:

    1. High school boys calling other high school boys “gay”, for any reason? Yeah, that’s what happens.
    2. Teens being rude and disrespectful to other teens, regardless of the reason? Yeah, that’s what happens.
    3. So, when I watched the video for the first time, my thought was “I don’t think any of these kids actually go to a public school; I bet that they’ve been told these claims by a trusted authority figure, and they’re simply repeating them in this video.”

    Well, looks like I was right. From an article in the Coeur d’Alene Press:

    “When asked if the children in the video had experienced bullying in area public schools because they are Christians, Brown wouldn’t say.

    “Bullying is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess,” he said.

    The Reach America youngsters attend “online academies” or are home-schooled in the mornings, he said. The organization offers free tutoring early in the day, and according to the website, teens complete their online studies or home school assignments sent by their parents, in a structured environment under the guidance of Mindy Brown, Reach America’s education director.

    In the afternoons, the children participate in a leadership program led by Brown, a pastor who formerly lived in Georgia.”

    • Glodson

      “Bullying is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess,” he said.

      That’s chilling. It is chilling because he knows that bullying is a problem, and he wants to use it. Only by trying to change how one uses the word can he make the case. It is rank dishonesty used to piggyback a real concern.

      Much like the persecution of Christians in other parts of the world. The problem, violence done to people for a belief, is not really their concern. It is just about furthering their cause here, and keeping the persecution complex rolling. Instead of talking about bullying really, they just want to be the victims too, even though it is absurd.

  • islandbrewer

    The third person pronoun is spelled Y-O-U in English.

    The Caps-Lock button is on the left side of most keyboards, just above the Shift button, typically.

  • atwas911

    Christians persecuted… HHAHAHAH

    “HOW DARE YOU SINNERS PERSECUTE US!?!”
    “YOU”RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR ALL TIME!”
    “YOU WERE BORN DESERVING THE FIRES OF HELL!”
    “IF WE WERE IN FULL POLITICAL POWER WE”D STILL BE BURNING PEOPLE ALIVE! BUT….JESUS LOVES YOU THOUGH!”

  • John Cook

    I am usually pleasant and tolerant but I have politely suffered ignorant and demanding Xian torment and bullying since the fifties, and I have worn thin with their bullshit. It is time the millions of atheists DEMANDED some things of Xians. Like Back off! Leave us alone, and keep your dumb shit ideas completely away from government. Pray in a closed closet like your mythical and invisible Jesus told you to.

    Just STFU!… for a polite change, please? It would be sincerely appreciated.


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