Downsides to the Hope Offered by Christianity: Anxiety

Downsides to the Hope Offered by Christianity: Anxiety July 23, 2018

Let’s continue our list of reasons why Christian hope is not a good thing (part 1 here).

5. Christian hope produces frustration and anxiety

Here’s how hope is supposed to work.

Christian hope is when God has promised that something is going to happen and you put your trust in that promise. Christian hope is a confidence that something will come to pass because God has promised it will come to pass. . . .

If our future is not secured and satisfied by God then we are going to be excessively anxious. (John Piper)

But does it really work that way?

Let’s say you admit that you’re powerless to change God’s will, so you lay your troubles at the feet of Jesus. This is a great relief until you eventually realize nothing’s changed for the better. When you check up on those problems, they’re still there. Jesus hasn’t resolved them. Maybe you had cancer and you still have cancer, or you were broke and you’re still broke. You could respond by living in an intellectual haze, ignoring this unwanted reality, but that won’t do for many of us.

What do you make of God ignoring your prayer—are you unworthy? Are you not doing it right? Does God not like you? Someone else in your church says that their big prayer was answered, so why not yours?

Your Christian friends offer platitudes. They say that God helps those who help themselves (ignoring the fact that the Bible doesn’t say this and indeed says the opposite). God always answers prayers, but his answers are Yes, No, and Not yet (wrong again—Jesus said that prayers are reliably answered). The trials in this life help make us a better person (true, but that’s what you say only when there’s no evidence of supernatural justification for the problems life has dealt you).

Christianity is clearly not the route that avoids anxiety, so let’s see what reality can do for us. Dismiss the supernatural, and life dealing you a bad hand isn’t anyone’s fault. You needn’t lie awake at night wondering how you might be unworthy of God’s answer to your prayer. You’re not a pawn pushed around by God in a mysterious way.

Here are our two options. Ask yourself which is harder to accept: (1) we’re not alone, but it’s not God to whom we turn for help but people here on earth vs. (2) God exists, but he might as well not for the evidence we have of him, and now we must struggle to figure out why he’s ignoring us. Talk to any Christian who has dealt with serious doubt. Ask how frustrating it is to preserve god belief while one’s intellectual side keeps pointing to the man behind the curtain.

Let’s add to that frustration with the problem of belief.

Calvinists say, “once saved, always saved.” That is, once you’re destined for God’s Kingdom, there’s nothing you or anyone can do to change that. But what if a (supposedly) saved Christian becomes an atheist later in life? Is that a counterexample that falsifies the rule? Nope—they’ll respond that that person must not have been a true Christian, so they never were saved.

But think of the Pandora’s Box they’ve opened with that conclusion. Now they can’t be sure of anyone’s salvation, including their own! This adds yet more anxiety on the Christian.

All Christians must worry that they’re believing the right thing. Their theology promises bliss in heaven, but it’s a package deal, and hell comes along, too. The naturalist thinks that what happens to the deer or dog happens to the person—when you die, it’s just lights out. But with hell, you must get it right or you burn. (And no, don’t argue that the gates of hell are locked from the inside. Jesus’s parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus makes clear that hell is a place of torment, praise the Lord.)

How can you sleep at night with the anxiety? If your theology doesn’t imagine a tormenting hell, you just must hope you guessed right, because other denominations disagree. With 45,000 denominations, that’s a lot of disagreement. You might believe in Jesus, but how do you know you believe in the right one?

Think about how people actually pick a church. It’s not by poring over the Bible, finding the best interpretation, finding the church that best honors that interpretation, and then moving within driving distance. Instead, people find a church that’s convenient to where they already live, has good music, has nice people, and maybe has a place to put the kids while they’re in the service (h/t avalon).

How can Christians make this decision so casually? This is a very high-stakes game, and there are infinitely large consequences for getting it wrong. No matter which church they’re in, there’s probably another church that thinks that they’ve picked wrong and are therefore bound for hell.

Looking even broader, how do they even know that Christianity is correct? The hells of other religions aren’t pretty, and you don’t want to spend eternity there, either.

The example of Mother Teresa personifies the problem. She wrote of her anxiety and frustration when God was silent. What message was he sending?

Only by not thinking about it can Christians avoid the same problem.

Continue to reasons 6 and 7, God as a jerk + infantilized Christians

When we don’t see as far as others
it is because we are standing on the toes of giants.
— commenter grasshopper

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  • Kevin K

    I think that some of the more … aggressive … trolls we have wandering over here are suffering from a type of anxiety. When you think about it, they believe they’re called by their god to save souls, otherwise their own soul is imperiled. And they come over here, because Willie Sutton (look it up). Anyhow, they expect to find easy pickings amongst the unsaved, and instead get … well … us. This creates cognitive dissonance between the conversations they made up in their heads and the conversations that happen in real life.

    Anxiety provoked.

    • Jim Jones

      Bwahahaha! My plan is working!!

    • Greg G.

      They come here to face atheists but all they find are curmudgeons.

      • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

        Right now I’m stuck on trying to “reason” with pro-forced birthers. We just fundamentally disagree on everything, but NO, they are not slut-shaming women. Fuck the kids’ needs and again if and when they and their descendents become pregnant- like being in hell but across generations!

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          There is no reasoning with forced-birthers. They are entirely focused on the emotional idea that little unborn babies are being murdered. I have even pointed out the draconian methodology of the one-child only policy in China that forced women into being sterilized or to abort, bounties paid to spy-on and turn-in their neighbors for non-compliance – all of these are just one step away when the government or religion decrees that women do not have the right to make their own health care decisions. I highly doubt women get pregnant just so they can get an abortion, yet these forced-birthers think of themselves as so morally superior and perfect – and that their way is the only justifiable way – and any woman who gets an abortion deserves to rot in hell or at the very least face criminal charges. They can’t see past their own self-interest and need to control others.

        • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

          My other big discussion right now is with a feminist blog outside of Patheos that has become a TERF (Transgender people Exclusionary Radical Feminist) cesspool. I suppose if I really wanted to go all out dead-man-walking I could try and get anti-semites to stop being uncaring and cruel bastards!

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Yeah, good luck with that. I don’t post on any religious blogs because,…what’s the point? They certainly don’t care what I think and as I mentioned above, no amount of reasoning or evidence will change their beliefs. I’ve heard everything they have to offer and found it lacking. It’s a zero-sum game in my estimation. I only wish some of the more toxic among them would afford us the same courtesy.

        • Pofarmer

          If little unborn babies are being murdered, why isn’t every miscarriage investigated as a possible crime?

    • Susan

      This creates cognitive dissonance between the conversations they made up in their head

      Or that someone else made up for them.

      and the conversations that happen in real life.

      And their response seems to be to ignore the conversations we’re trying to have in real life and continue trying to have the conversation that exists in their head.

      • Kevin K

        Yes, their brains can’t quite catch up. And so they quickly resort to threats. It’s almost cliche.

  • carbonUnit

    It is amazing how many “Christians” seem immune to the anxiety. A disturbingly high number of people my religious spouse has had to deal with do terrible things to others (manipulate/lie/cheat/steal/belittle/back stab/…) but seem quite comfortable in their Christianity and put on a nice wholesome face. Either they have an incredible ability to handle dissonance or deep down they don’t really believe. I think for many (not just bad people), religion is a flag of convenience, a way of showing others (and themselves!) that they are “Good!”. But the belief is not deeply seated, hence the casual search for a suitable church. They make sure their kids go to church, so that they might be good too.

    • Jim Jones

      > … manipulate/lie/cheat/steal/belittle/back stab/…

      And the murders. Don’t forget the murders.

      • carbonUnit

        > And the murders. Don’t forget the murders.
        True, that a believer can commit murder is in a sense amazing, but thankfully, murderers (of any belief) are a very small percentage of the population. What flat out bothers me is the very large number of “Christians”, particularly in my spouse’s circles, who act totally counter to good elements of Christian morality. There are enough to make us feel surrounded…

        https://youtu.be/sen8Tn8CBA4?t=31s

    • Otto

      As long as you can convince yourself that you get a ‘get out of hell free card’ for saying sorry to Jesus, pretty much anything goes.

    • Christianity as virtue signalling? Maybe so.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

      • carbonUnit

        Never heard that term before, but it fits.

  • Tony D’Arcy

    Angst and worry away Christians ! Nothing will stop you from going into the ground or the incinerator when your 30,000 heart beats finishes ! Cheer up it’s Monday night ! No Jesus for me. No Jesus for you. Our atoms will be recycled for sure.

  • I grew up in evangelical fundamentalism and suffered a great degree of anxiety over whether I was saved, if I prayed the sinner’s prayer with the right “heart and mindset, if I was damning friends to hell because I was afraid to proselytize, whether I had my “heart right with God,” whether my questions and doubts were evidence of Satan’s temptation, etc. There was a lot. As an atheist, I understand that there are things within my control and things outside my control. I am better able to tackle tasks within my control and no longer rely on the magic of prayer to help with the rest.

  • grasshopper

    … the gates of hell are locked from the inside

    That’s great news. I won’t be able to get in.
    “Dave’s not here, man.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDAK7Umk7A
    “Open the pod bay doors, HAL” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIKBliboIo

  • Ficino

    Good article. I had gloried in the tremendous confidence that our mentor told us young gung-ho Calvinist guys we could have, knowing that our God was Sovereign. But eventually, after enough unanswered prayers, and examples of injustice that my omni-everything God by definition caused, I found the whole system more and more depressing, anxiety-making and killing. The words of a character in a movie about priests (The Devil’s Playground) kept coming back: “A whole life is a long time to be unhappy.”

  • JustAnotherAtheist2

    I saw this first hand when my daughter was in the hospital for most of last year. It was hard enough making it through each day, driving 2 hours each way, but my devout wife had an extra layer of grief and guilt layered on top. “Why is this happening? What did we do to deserve this? What did I do to deserve this?” Her faith was anything but comforting.

    • Bob Jase

      My mother went through all that shortly before she died. I had no way to comfort her as faith doesn’t allow rational answers.

      • JustAnotherAtheist2

        My condolences.

    • RichardSRussell

      It’s a testament to your devotion that you didn’t say “Because your God is a fucked-up sadist, that’s why!”. I’m not sure I would’ve been able to restrain myself.

      • JustAnotherAtheist2

        It’s hard to not feel compassion when there is a shared struggle and it could have been me asking the same questions a few short years ago.

        That said, you probably give me too much credit. There was at least as much fear of losing my marriage (my investment in church has clearly waned, but she still doesn’t know the extent of it) and sheer exhaustion from having bookeneded two long drives around a day in the hospital… with the knowledge that I’d have to get up early, do some work and make the trek over again.

      • JustAnotherAtheist2

        You know who I have struggled to not snap at? Family members who repeatedly offer prayers that god’s grace would find my daughter. I’ve had to bite my tongue and remind myself that they mean well a few times.

        • RichardSRussell

          I know what you mean. I too have had to bite my tongue in that kind of situation. I’ve found that it helps if I just remind myself that I, as an atheist, don’t have anything better to offer, either. Sometimes you’re just helpless but want to show sympathy however you can.

          For something as minor as a “God bless you” when I sneeze, I can just say “Well, I’m happy to have your blessing”, but that would be too flippant for something serious.

    • Otto

      That is awful, I am sorry you had to go through that. But it is an example of why I find the ‘cruel world’ more comforting than a ‘loving God’.

      • JustAnotherAtheist2

        Very well said. FWIW, we’ve come quite a ways out of the woods. The sun hasnt quite broken through yet, but she’s been home for several months and we’re on track to start school again in the fall. Relapse is always possible, but it seems like the worst is in the rearview mirror.

        • Otto

          My daughter just turned 13, I can’t imagine. I am glad things have improved.

        • Otto

          Also, I didn’t know it at the time, but when I still was a Christian I realized that a God that interacted in the world and helped people in need made no sense. To accept that one also had to accept that God intentionally did not help other people. I then moved to deism without even really realizing it …and it all crumbled not long after.

        • Best wishes for continued progress.

  • Bob Jase

    All you need is faith that you are worthy, that Jesus is hearing your prayers, that you haven’t sinned w/o knowing it, that you haven’t been cursed, that this isn’t another Job deal where Yahweh is causing your problems due to his gambling addiction and that a bad ending isn’t part of the unchanging divine plan and you’ve no reason to worry.

  • John MacDonald

    It reminds me of Alcholics Anonymous. The process begins by admitting there is nothing you can do to help your situation, but God could and would provide a way out. For the twelve steps, see http://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/twelve-steps-of-alcoholics-anonymous

    • Kevin K

      Given the dismal track record of AA — at best a 5% success rate, one should look elsewhere for assistance with addiction. Cuz the gods don’t give a crap.

      • John MacDonald

        Yep. I had a friend who successfully completed a 28 day stay in a 12 step based rehab center and drank the day he got out.

        • Kevin K

          And it’s not like this is some new revelation. 20 years ago or more I was writing articles about the failure of AA. The actual-real peer-review medical literature on the subject is chock-a-block full of studies documenting the dismal failure of the approach.

          In fact, it’s been observed that people quit on their own with no assistance at a rate higher than the documented success rate of AA.

        • RichardSRussell

          I’ve heard that the difference between a drunk and an alcoholic is that the drunk doesn’t have to go to the meetings.

  • Michael Murray

    As a kid growing up Catholic in the sixties and tending to anxiety and ocd prayers where not a helpful coping strategy. I got into some amazing bargains with God that if X didn’t happen I would say N prayers. I could rip off a lot of prayers with amazing speed. And it worked. None of the bad things happened. Skinner’s pigeons had nothing on me 🙂 .

    • JustAnotherAtheist2

      Lol!

  • Geoff Plumridge

    We are meant to be anxious. The Devil is real. Better to be on guard all the time than be just another smug hate filled atheist who doesn’t really believe that they have to pay their cheque at the end of their life. What an awfully selfish and blind way to live. I feel pity for all of you. I’ll take my constant guilt and anxiousness any day over the bleak emptiness you lot embrace.

    • epeeist

      The Devil is real.

      Evidence required.

      just another smug hate filled atheist

      Got anything more than smug hate filled ad hominems?

      I feel pity for all of you.

      Given the rest of your post I really doubt that.

      • Geoff Plumridge

        Evidence everywhere. Blindness is a symptom of your condition. This whole page is a thinly veiled hate filled ad hominem against Christians So when in Rome.. And I really do pity you all, deeply, but I do understand if you doubt that, doubt of course being the cornerstone of your whole existence. You lot really are the most miserable of all God’s creatures.

        • epeeist

          Evidence everywhere.

          But strangely enough you don’t appear to have provided any.

          Blindness is a symptom of your condition.

          Got anything more than ad hominems?

          This whole page is a thinly veiled hate filled ad hominem against Christians

          Frankly I don’t think that you know what actually constitutes an ad hominem, here is a hint; an attack on a system of ideas is not the same as an attack on the person.

          You lot really are the most miserable of all God’s creatures.

          Got anything more than ad hominems?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m not actually referring to “you” personally just your system of ideas. So am I actually demonstrating the subject logical fallacy or not?

        • epeeist

          I’m not actually referring to “you” personally just your system of ideas.

          Ah, so “another smug hate filled atheist”, “Atheists remind me of sheep”, ” you are already lost” are all attacks on atheism not atheists.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Truly. I am generalising in relation to Atheists the same way the authors on this site clump Christians together. When in Rome. I pity you all deeply, and don’t believe for a second that any of you are worth preaching to.

        • epeeist

          I pity you all deeply, and don’t believe for a second that any of you are worth preaching to.

          Ah well, every poster brings joy to the site; some when they arrive and some when they leave.

          Given that you don’t think we are worth preaching to then I presume you will be going.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Nope. Given that this is a site only in place to belittle and defame Christianity I will continue to express my legitimate moral outrage.

        • epeeist

          moral outrage

          Isn’t going to get you far. We tend to favour reasoned argument and evidence here. So far you produced neither.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m not here to prove anything to a close minded atheist. I don’t care if you believe or not. I just want to express my sincerest and deepest pity at your plight.

        • epeeist

          I’m not here to prove anything to a close minded atheist.

          So no different to many other theists we get here who are unable to support their position.

          I don’t care if you believe or not.

          So you admit that you are incapable of converting us.

          I just want to express my sincerest and deepest pity at your plight.

          OK, you have done that now. Bye.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          “So you admit that you are incapable of converting us.”

          That truly is pitiable. You really are hoping someone introduces you to the Real Santa Claus. My sympathy continues to grow. You poor sad people.

        • epeeist

          That truly is pitiable.

          Nope, it is your posts that are pitiable. They contain nothing that looks like reasoned argument or evidence for your position (whatever that is, you haven’t bothered specifying). Instead they consist solely of ad hominem and various appeals to emotion.

          If that is all you are capable of then the pity goes the other way. What a sad life you must lead, in a perpetual rage against people who would question your ideology but incapable of producing anything to rebut what they say.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I can’t hate like you lot can. You lot beat me there hands down. This site is an online temple of hate.

        • epeeist

          Amusing, you respond to my posts pointing out that all you are capable of is producing posts full of personal and emotive attacks with what? Nothing but personal and emotive attacks.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Why do you look for anything else? Read the contents of this page, just bile and hate. I’m not about to cast pearls before swine.

        • Pofarmer

          I’m not about to cast pearls before swine.

          Fuck you too, asshole.

        • Damien Priestly

          Well, you are quite the dense Christian, no chance reasoning with your type. If you are for real (I have some doubts)…I will play the role you have assigned us — can you handle this ?? …

          HAIL SATAN !!

        • Greg G.

          You don’t have pearls. Fool’s gold maybe.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          EYEron PIEryte

          😉

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          How is asking for evidence ‘hateful’?

          Be specific and show your work.

        • The Christian love oozes out of your comments. Thank you, brother, for saying what needs to be said.

          Or something.

        • TheNuszAbides

          I’m not about to cast pearls before swine.

          and the notion that you even have pearls to cast can therefore remain another legend in your mind. terribly convenient. too bad about the lurkers who might buy it.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          You’ll never know. I’m not wasting my time trying to make people that are determined to be blind see the light. I am not moved by pity enough to even try.

        • I appreciate the need to spend one’s time wisely on the internet. On the other hand, this is what lots of Christians who don’t have arguments say. Are you that very rare Christian who actually has something valuable and informative to share? I doubt it, but your opinion may differ.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I think every practising Christian has something invaluable to share. A case study in the surrender of pride and the benefits of benevolence. Any “Christian” that acts out of selfish interests and with pride in their heart is as phoney as a politically correct “ethics” class for school children.

        • Michael Neville

          Just fuck off, you boring, supercilious, bigoted twit.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Decent vocabulary pissweak comment.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Oh you poor bugger sorry that got to you. I genuinely just wanted to express my pity.

        • Michael Neville

          You’re a fucking liar. You don’t want to express “pity”, you want to express your hatred of people who don’t share your superstitions. It certainly says something about how weak your own faith is that you feel the need to sneer at people who believe differently than you do.

        • Ignorant Amos

          twit

          Not the four lettered word I’d have used of course, but sure.

        • Michael Neville

          There were so many choices that I just grabbed one.

        • TheNuszAbides

          yet you claimed the pity was deep. again, not shocked by your diseased self-awareness.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          How?

          Demonstrate this ‘hate’ that you assert we possess (or are *possessed* by, the theology is uncertain…)

        • epeeist

          You really are hoping someone introduces you to the Real Santa Claus.

          There is as much evidence for Santa as there is for your particular god, more in fact; at least children get presents at Christmas time. Your god never shows up at all.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Must of hurt when you realised he wasn’t real. Poor sad and lost just like you lot are now.

        • Greg G.

          If your purpose for being here is to destroy irony meters, you should post under the article titled “Downsides to the Hope Offered by Christianity: It Makes God a Jerk + Infantilizes Christians“.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I don’t remember if it hurt when I was told Santa wasn’t real, so it couldn’t have been much of a trauma.

          Again, why ARE you here, unless you’re losing your faith and desperate to keep the battle external, rather than within your mind where reality will ultimately win out?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          You’re making a claim.

          I want evidence, or I want you to STFU.

          And you’ve shown yourself incapable of doing EITHER, a la Ron White.

        • So you got no arguments? The Holy Spirit isn’t giving you inspiration of something helpful to say?

          Why then are you here? Just to stamp your little feet?

        • Greg G.

          Of course you are not here to prove anything. The best you can do is say “everything is evidence” with your hands waving.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Still waiting to meet Santa? Wow.

        • Greg G.

          Three irony meters. Why does your God hate irony meters so much?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          My God doesn’t hate. But you lot do. PHD level.

        • Greg G.

          My God doesn’t hate.

          Are we talking about the God of the Bible or the one you believe in? If it’s the Bible God, then you are “a lying tongue”, which is second and “a lying witness who testifies falsely” which is sixth on the list of things that Bible God hates the most.

          Proverbs 6:16-19 (NRSV)16 There are six things that the Lord hates,    seven that are an abomination to him:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,    and hands that shed innocent blood,18 a heart that devises wicked plans,    feet that hurry to run to evil,19 a lying witness who testifies falsely,    and one who sows discord in a family.

          From where I sit, it seems that your haughty eyes saw us as evil so your feet hurried you here with your wicked plans to sow discord among us and our families. That’s OK with me but your God hates it. If you intend to shed blood, though, I will have to put my foot down.

          I think we can add irony meters to the list of things God hates as you blew the spares in the basement with this one. Fortunately, the ones in the garage survived.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I went with virtual irony meters running on an irony mainframe.

          MUCH better results…

          😉

        • Greg G.

          But a virtual irony meter explosion can virtually take out an entire neighborhood.

        • Nice!

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you deny and project?

          Per the story, your ‘god’ has destroyed cities by fire with all their inhabitants, drowned the world, & set up an incest-fest of the survivors that would have caused untold generations of horrible birth defects due to reinforcement of bad genes, causing massive misery to the families whether the afflicted lived or died.

          That sounds a LOT like hate to me.

        • Why are you here? To dismiss that notion that all Christians are thoughtful, loving people? Success!

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why are you deflecting and trying to derail?

          Wouldn’t it be easier to simply provide specific evidence, since you CLAIM it’s so multitudinous?

        • Pofarmer

          Uhm, yeah, most of us here used to be religious. Some of us were Catholics. Some of us had kids go through Catholic Schools. For all of us the kids reason we don’t beleive is because the evidence doesn’t Fit the claims. In short, you are projecting.

          And brainwashed.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Yep, just waiting for someone to throw “Cognitive Dissonance” my way. Any chance that you might imagine that I came to my faith out of the use of my own brain?? Or is that concept too dangerous for your average garden variety atheist?

        • Greg G.

          Any chance that you might imagine that I came to my faith out of the use of my own brain??

          Of course your faith came out of the use of your own brain. Faith doesn’t come from evidence, it is what comes where evidence ends. It’s why you have no evidence to present to us.

        • Pofarmer

          Do tell.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why?

          You’re here attacking…and that says to me that you’re losing belief and due to the superstitious terror inculcated in you, you feel you must do battle against it, and it’s easier OUTside your head than INside your head.

          BTW, brains can be deluded. That’s why we want evidence, and try to use logic from valid axioms.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Sounds like virtue signaling to me.

          Except we don’t consider you virtuous, but as somebody too frightened, perhaps by terror instilled in your young mind before the age of reason, to be comfortable with examining the ‘god’ question.

          Also, your vehemence indicates that you’re attacking US as a proxy for the doubts in your own mind that you hate and are attempting to defeat or still.

        • Greg G.

          Do you express moral outrage at the RCC for protecting child molesters or the Evangelicals who have African Christians killing children in the name of Jesus for being witches?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Did you express moral outrage at the genocide currently being waged against ethnic christians in the Middle East? Or does their demise suit your world view?

        • Greg G.

          Yes, I condemn the treatment of Christians in the Middle East. I am not hate-filled.

          Is your non-response to my questions an indication that you do not condemn child molesting priests and the RCC hierarchy who protected them? Do you favor killing people who are accused of being witches?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why? It’s not atheists who are killing those xtians, you know.

          It seems to me that you’re conflating everybody you don’t like into one big ‘bad’ category with no regard for the self-contradictions such a group would encompass.

          And FWIW, *lots* of atheists speak against islam, too, because it’s also an authoritarian superstition.

        • Greg G.

          I answered your question. We are still waiting for your answer about whether you repudiate that priests molest children. This is really an easy moral question. Why are you having trouble responding?

        • epeeist

          And to follow up on the post from Greg G., does your outrage run to condemning the hypocrisy of the religious right in the US who are supporting a president who continually lies, has five children by three different women (what does your bible say about divorce?), not forgetting the extra-marital affairs.

        • Greg G.

          His spelling of “cheque” and the time his tantrum began makes me think he is from the UK.

        • Pofarmer

          A quick browse of his commenting history confirms this.

        • Susan
        • Ctharrot

          Oh. My. Azathoth.

          It’s 2018, and he’s complaining about womens’ voting rights?

          Who does that??!!

        • Susan

          Who does that??!!

          Geoff.

        • Pofarmer

          Yep, these are the good, loving, Catholics who enslaved women in Magdalene laundries until 19 ninety fucking six.

        • Pofarmer

          That’s why I say, Dude’s appalling.

        • Geoff may be from Australia

        • epeeist

          Geoff may be from Australia

          You mean the country where there has been an inquiry into child sex abuse, including that in Catholic church.

        • Susan

          I will continue to express my legitimate moral outrage.

          I don’t see anything moral about your outrage.

        • epeeist

          Or legitimate for that matter.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Y’all stop being assholes, pissing in the punch bowl, and violating your own religion by attempting to take vengeance from the hands of your ‘lord’ by enacting secular enforcement of your superstition, you’d find we’re rather easy to get along with.

        • Pofarmer

          ^^^^^^^^^^ This.

        • There’s a tagline above that is a better approximation of the purpose of this blog.

          Look at the “All Posts” list and browse. And maybe be slightly less sensitive.

        • epeeist

          Truly. I am generalising in relation to Atheists

          So in other words all you are doing is producing ad hominems.

          the authors on this site clump Christians together.

          It does? Bob doesn’t distinguish between the 45,000+ denominations of Christianity?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          That is a lot of flavours of ice cream that he can concurrently hate. Maybe he just hates ice cream.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Was that supposed to make sense?

          If ice-cream purveyors passed laws FORCING people to eat ice cream, then maybe you’d have the ghost of an argument.

        • Greg G.

          I like vanilla ice cream. I do not like those adulterated abominations of ice cream. Neapolitan ice cream is like wearing a toga made from flax and wool while picking up sticks on the sabbath. What could be more horrible than that?

        • Greg G.

          When you read “Christians say…”, read it as “Some Christian say..” rather than “All Christians say…”. Remember that most Christians disagree with you about Christianity on some point or another. It’s why there are so many different denominations and why Jesus’ prayer for the unity of belief of his followers is the greatest prayer failure of all time.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          The devil was the original divide and conquerer.

        • Greg G.

          I thought the serpent was the original in the Big Book of Myths. Christians have tried to explain that the serpent was really Satan. But if that is so, the god thingy owes serpents an apology for making them crawl and eat dust. If Satan did it, serpents are innocent.

        • Otto

          And God is apparently powerless to stop it….

        • Bob Jase

          Not powerless, he’s just got lots of bets on the outcomes because in his omnisience he doesn’t know them.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          What ‘devil’ is this you speak of?

          Show that it exists before you use it as a tool / reference.

        • Greg G.

          What ‘devil’ is this you speak of?

          Show that it exists before you use it as a tool / reference.

          Huh? Do you think bad things just happen by accident?

        • epeeist

          Do you think bad things just happen by accident?

          Or that good things just happen by accident. It just goes to show that the god who is responsible for both good and bad is Loki, alternatively we are stuck in the middle between Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu.

        • You mean Satan? No, he was God’s assistant. Read Job 1.

        • Ben Posin

          I pity you all deeply, and don’t believe for a second that any of you are worth preaching to.

          Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders, and goes homes. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.”

          Truly, you are a fisher of men.

        • disqus_lhnEaRtWQ9 why

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Then why not talk about atheISM?

          And yes, theists can be grouped because they all suffer from the same delusion that the supernatural is real and can affect objective reality.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nonsense.

          Your own text belies your statement here.

          We also want *evidence*, of which you’ve provided none of any specificity except of your being a most unpleasant, arrogant conversationalist.

        • Greg G.

          Evidence everywhere.

          Are you claiming that since God created everything so everything is evidence for God?

          That is circular reasoning with a short radius.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I was actually referring to the devil but hey since they are just invented allegorical figures in your mind why would I bother extrapolating? May as well explain the workings of a kaleidoscope to a chicken. Might get more traction.

        • Greg G.

          Things happen. If we like something that happens, it’s evidence of God. If we don’t like something, it’s evidence of Satan. Are you trying to make a microscopic bicycle out of circular arguments?

          You would have to be quite arrogant to think that Satan would bother to do bad things to you and your church friends.

          It could be that we live in an indifferent universe.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          No, you are the indifferent one, and it seems like you really wish the tooth fairy would still put money under your pillow. Poor little fella.

        • Greg G.

          Oh no! Another irony meter smoked!

        • epeeist

          Another irony meter smoked!

          There used to be a shop that sold heavy duty ones, but as they saying goes “the only problem making something idiot proof is that world is constantly producing better idiots.”

        • Michael Neville

          You can make things fool proof but you can’t make them damn-fool proof.

        • epeeist

          Another irony meter smoked!

          Do you think he is aware enough to realise that the piss is being taken?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Of course not. Theists are stupid don’t you realise that?

        • Susan

          Theists are stupid

          No one here has said that. That comment was about your personal behaviour.. When you show up yelling at and insulting everyone, provide no support for your claims and gennerally act like a jerk, people will not think highly of your intelligence.

          It has nothing to do with you being a theist and everything to do with your conduct.

          Take responsibility and don’t play martyr.

        • epeeist

          Theists are stupid don’t you realise that?

          Well there does seem to be a negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence as this meta-analysis shows.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Theists *could* be stupid.

          Using YOU as an example, it could be considered statistically likely.

        • Dom Saunders

          I’m over entertaining this bitch. He’s blocked.

        • Yes, sometimes they are. I’m just a little surprised you’d say it so plainly.

        • Greg G.

          He only see what his God goggles allow him to see.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          My God goggles are clearer than your hate blast shield.

        • Greg G.

          Did you come to Catholicism as a rational adult or was is imposed upon you as a child? Did you come to religion because it supports the hate you project or does the hate stem from your inability to reject your religion?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Considering that you perceive a willingness to look at life as it is, and to be willing to change one’s mind when the evidence indicates that’s necessary, as *hate*, I think your ‘god’ goggles are cutting off the bloodflow to your brain.

        • Pofarmer

          I’ll take my constant guilt and anxiousness

          Another broken Catholic.

        • Jim Dailey

          I did not see where he indicated he was Catholic.

        • Greg G.

          There was question about whether he supported Trump. I had seen him use “cheque” which led me to believe he was from the UK. It was pointed out to me that he had made a comment at another blog about New Zealand which implied that might be where he is from. But in that post, he clearly claimed to be Catholic.

          https://disqus.com/home/discussion/suspendedinherjar/catholic_men_explain_me_to_me/#comment-4006917702

        • Pofarmer

          It’s kind of a dead giveaway.

        • Damien Priestly

          Starting to think this is not a real commenter…if this is sarcasm?…Poe’s law applies — and take it elsewhere.

          If you are a real poster and not a troll…what rock have you been living under? Going to an atheist blog and accusing non-believers of believing in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause…when these have exactly the same evidence for existence as the threesome: God, Jesus and their sidekick Holy Sprit ??

          Back to the asylum if that’s where you came from !!

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you persist in projection?

          Does it ease the anxiety you’re feeling, realizing that your belief is waning in the face of actual evidence?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Uh, you haven’t demonstrated that anything supernatural exists, so your whole statement is logically poisonous word salad.

          Try again.

        • epeeist

          Are you claiming that sincehGod created everything so everything is evidence for God?

          I think you have it the wrong way around, everything is evidence for the existence of the devil. Obviously his god is too puny to overcome Satan.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Pride always comes before a fall. This page is as prideful and as hate filled as any I have seen. The devil would be proud.

        • Greg G.

          Pride always comes before a fall.

          Have you ever noticed how proud of themselves people are when they make this tout? Especially when they use the word “cometh”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Now with the deepities?

          Give me specific examples, or I shall *taunt* you again!

        • TheNuszAbides

          This page is as prideful and as hate filled as any I have seen.

          yes, it’s no surprise whatsoever that you don’t get out much.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Projecting again? Just because I go to mass on Sunday doesn’t mean I don’t visit the devil on Saturday night.

        • TheNuszAbides

          if you were as familiar with your subject matter as you imagine/pretend, you likely* wouldn’t make the ignorant generalities you pretend are equivalent to those made about theists/Christians by Bob.

          *unless of course your actual and only goal here is gratuitous shit-stirring.

        • Dom Saunders
        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Evidence everywhere.

          Then you should have no trouble providing *multitudinous* *specific* examples.

          I’m waiting.

          And we’re only miserable when putting up with vile aggressive cretins such as yourself.

    • Greg G.

      Oh, another smug, hate-filled theist who believes in a smug, hate-filled deity but fears the Devil.

      If you want to convince an atheist of something, show the evidence for your deity. Show how you can distinguish the deity you believe in from every other imaginary being you have ever thought of.

      • Geoff Plumridge

        I don’t hate you, I pity you. I don’t care to convince you of anything, you are already lost.

        • Greg G.

          How do you know that I am lost? Nobody has ever provided reasonable evidence of God’s existence. That’s all I ask.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Another sad person that really wants to believe in Santa Claus. I am abashed I thought this page was about hate but it really is a cry for help.

        • Greg G.

          You came to an atheist blog to admit that you believe in a Super Santa Claus but are accusing me of crying for help. You just smoked my Irony Meter.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I came to an atheist blog to react to the hatred being directed at my faith by this site. I truly could not give a rats arse what you think of my belief system, I’m only demonstrating the same disdain for your fundamentalist lack of beliefs that you do for my faith. In short, I feel really bad that you are all so hypocritically messed up.

        • Greg G.

          You are so arrogant that you think this blog is directed at YOUR faith. This blog addresses Christianity in all its forms but it is against any religious faith. The anger in the opposition to faith is not directed at the faith itself but to the results of it. Wrong beliefs lead to wrong actions.

          You can’t even condemn your child molesting priests because of your religion. That is harm done by your religion. The harm done to you was done by your religion and was enabled by your faith in it. There was a Catholic school where the molestation by priests was so high, nearly every boy was abused. There is a very high rate of suicide among the former students. Are you blind to that?

          It gets worse, though. The United States has the most powerful government in the world. Many of the ranking members in the government have no compunction against taking bribes campaign donations from Big Oil to combat any action to prevent human-caused carbon dioxide related global warming. They believe that God is in control so there is no way humans can hurt the ecosystem. So we get ranking members who do not understand science because they only understand religion on committees that should be relying on science.

        • Pofarmer

          Are you blind to that?

          Yep.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Ban gays from entering the priesthood. Problem solved.

        • Michael Neville

          Another Christian who equates gays with pedophiles. Why am I not surprised at this bigotry?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Statistics don’t lie. If Celibacy caused paedophilia then a million Bhuddist monks and Hindu holy men would be in gaol.

        • Pofarmer

          Nah, what caused the problem is fucked up Catholic sexual teaching. Also fucked up Catholic theology about what is important.

        • Michael Neville

          Do you think that pedophilia isn’t a problem with Buddhists and Hindus? You’re not only a stupid bigot, you’re an ignorant, stupid bigot. Besides, the difference between Buddhists and Hindus and your particular cult is that Buddhists and Hindus didn’t support and protect pedophile clergy, unlike the Catholic Church.

        • epeeist

          If Celibacy caused paedophilia

          The first person to link celibacy and paedophilia is you, I wonder why that is?

          Do you mean to say all the abusers mentioned in this article are gay? If so then I presume you have evidence to demonstrate this.

        • Pofarmer

          Bill Kilgallon, the church official handling sex abuse complaints,
          has confirmed that details of known abusers were not passed on to police
          unless victims lodged a complaint.

          Neither had the church made
          any attempt to investigate whether the priests had abused other children
          who had yet to come forward.

          “It’s for them to go to police, not
          for us. If they give us information and don’t want it to go to the
          police, we can’t ignore that,” he said.

          Fuck those guys.

        • epeeist

          Indeed, here is another case under investigation.

          Note that the accusations against him will be examined in a Catholic church trial, not a civil court.

        • Pofarmer

          But of course.

          Are you familiar with the case of the Bishop if Kansas City who was jailed in MO? There was a priest who was MAKING child porn, and he knew and didn’t report it. A computer tech working on the priests laptop turned him in.

        • Pofarmer

          Going on right now.

          “VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has accepted US prelate Theodore McCarrick’s offer to resign from the College of Cardinals following allegations of sexual abuse, and ordered him to conduct a ‘‘life of prayer and penance’’ in a home to be designated by the pontiff until a church trial is held.”

        • epeeist

          Now if I was a betting man I would be happy to put a reasonable amount of money on Geoff Plumridge not responding to these posts.

          But there again I doubt you would want to accept the bet.

        • Michael Neville

          I don’t take sucker bets.

        • Greg G.

          Celibacy isn’t the cause, it is what attracts someone who has been brainwashed that certain sexual desires are worse than others only to find that they have those desires. Becoming a priest would appear to be an perfect option for someone with sexual urges they cannot accept. Gay priests meet many other gay priests and they do their thing, while the pedophiles babysit. That is where things go bad.

          The celibate lifestyle attracts men who would like to quell their sexual desires. But sex is a primal urge that is not easily suppressed.

          It used to be shocking when it came out that an anti-gay preacher or politician was gay. Now it just seems to be a matter of time before it comes out that they have a secret gay lifestyle. When a bigot spews venom at gays, it often comes across as someone who is fighting their own urges. Those people just seem to think about it too much for it not to be a natural urge from within.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          It’s ENFORCED celibacy (Buddhist monks can leave & return, as can Hindu holy men) combined with the authoritarianism of a religion that used to rule the secular side of the house as well.

          Oh, and most active pedophiles are heterosexual, whether or not they tend to also abuse little boys as well as girls.

        • TheNuszAbides

          Statistics don’t lie.

          that’s okay, your equivalent of exegesis and hermeneutics will take up the slack.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Or a Royal Commission held in my country into institutionalised sexual abuse will prove that the overwhelming majority of cases were perpetrated by non-celibate homosexual men on young boys.

        • The problem isn’t gays in the priesthood. One problem is stigmatizing homosexuality so that young men will see the priesthood as a solution to this (non-)problem. Another problem is demanding celibacy. A sexual outlet would help a lot of them.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Just ban homosexuals from becoming clergy. Majority of the problem solved.

        • No, problem covered up. I’d rather actually solve the problem.

        • TheNuszAbides

          you haven’t memorized the numbers? grandiose phrasing and the pointless illustration of “non-celibate” (how could any case be perpetrated by another sort of person?) don’t lend credibility to your characteristic lack of pertinent citation.

          and what’s your matching sublimely-confident statement to dismiss the exceptions to the “overwhelming majority” claim?

        • epeeist

          non-celibate homosexual men on young boys.

          Boys younger than 13 (as the DSM defines paedophilia) or younger than 10 (As the John Jay report redefined paedophilia)?

        • Greg G.

          From teh Wikipedia article on Celibacy – “Classical Hindu culture encouraged asceticism and celibacy in the later stages of life, after one has met his societal obligations.”

          Hindus apparently don’t do celibacy while their hormones are raging. But I have seen many scandals with Buddhist monks and even in Islam.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Scandals are bad enough. Systemic cover-up going to the highest level, is what compounds the problem. Therein lies the difference.

        • Winston Jen

          Most Buddhist monks and Hindu holy men wait until they’re adults before they stop having sex.

          Brainwashing 14-year-olds with abstinence is unhealthy.

        • epeeist

          Ban gays from entering the priesthood. Problem solved.

          But the actual child rape isn’t the only problem, it is the fact that the Catholic hierarchy facilitated the abusers, moving them from parish to parish and covering the abuse up. Banning gays from the church wouldn’t cure this (nor would it cure the paedophilia).

        • Greg G.

          The celibate priesthood is an appealing profession for people with sexual urges that are unacceptable in their society. Unfortunately the pedophiles find themselves in a position where they are trusted to be alone with children a lot. Sometimes they give in to their urges. That causes problems for all involved, including the gays who get blamed for it by ignorant people.

          The bishops understand the temptations so they are lenient. Perhaps they gave in to the temptations, too, at some point. So it follows that the Church hierarchy is full of them. They are promoted out of a profession that is not very attractive to people with sex drives that are not frowned upon by their society.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why? Isn’t the priesthood supposed to be celibate, anyway?

          Why should that exclude a gay person from serving?

        • Let priests have sex. Problem solved.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Ban gays from entering the priesthood. Problem solved.

          Because all the abuse was/is being carried out by homosexual priests…not, ya dickhead.

          Hey….here’s a novel idea. Why not refine your bigoted fuckwittery even further and get to the real crux of the issue. Ban pedophiles from entering the priesthood. Problem solved.

          How does one go about doing that?

          Put it on the application form for entry into the priesthood, because after all, priests never lie?

          Pedophilia and ephebophilia has fuck all to do with homosexuality ya moron.

          Although many blame the abuse scandals on homosexuality among the clergy, same-sex attraction does not make priests more likely to sexually abuse children, Plante said.

          “It’s perfectly understandable that people could be confused by this, because we know that 80 percent or more of the clerical sexual abuse victims are boys,” Plante said. “So people conclude that if you get rid of homosexuals in the clergy, then you’ve got the problem solved. And it doesn’t work that way.”

          Most of the clerical sexual abuse perpetrators have been “situational generalists,” a term used throughout extensive John Jay College of Criminal Justice summary reports, the most recent in 2011, to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

          Generalists do not have a specific sexual preference for youth, but instead “turn to children as a sort of substitute” due to psychological and emotional difficulties in bonding with peers, Plante observed.

          https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2018/09/10/clergy-sex-abuse-not-about-gay-priests-top-psychologist-says

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          You came to piss in the punch bowl and demand praise for it.

          You came to the wrong place.

        • Dom Saunders

          But no one here cared about you? No one even knew you existed until you chose to come here thinking you would be attacked and martyred for your faith. Really, no one cares that you believe, we just hate your shitty, self-absorbed attitude. Besides, you act like only atheists frequent these blogs. Quite a few Christians comment in some of our blogs, some even work with our atheist bloggers, and we get along just fine. Meanwhile, you’re here trying to come for us when we never even sent for you.

          But we’re the hypocrites. Okay.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e9174d7a91908fcbaf37740bad34801587cfea53d0cc32bfdc0f71983c776032.gif

        • Ben Brigs
        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Yep. Catnip toys and rawhide bones 😉

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I hear the huff of a person attacking out of fear that it really (as said person has noticed, but is too terrified by superstition to credit) false.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Your delusion(s) is/are not our problem…as long as you don’t attempt to legislate them.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      I see a bunch of assertions.

      Demonstrate each, with reputable examples.

    • Dom Saunders

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/73c8ef926de65b81c4bc2a8685978aec5d4b39837bcf64bad1a7052946cfef55.gif

      Pay what check, sis? To whom? Our parents? Because if you’re implying we need to give a creator deity thanks for existing, that’s kinda hard to do when one can’t even be proven to exist. Moreover, stop projecting your presumptions on us. Atheists don’t believe their lives are empty, and if you actually talked to one, as opposed to preaching down on them, (flagged, by the way), you would know we put friends and family and generally “not being a douchebag (except when warranted) above baseless, supernatural concerns that you have. See, people in our lives actually exist and that’s what we care about. Your god doesn’t, and what we do know of it from the Bible, it’s a monstrous, genocidal maniac who is about as anti-humanity as you can get.

      Don’t expect us to really have to choose between an intangible, cosmic, world-class abuser of your imagination and the real people in our lives, because you will lose every time.

      • Geoff Plumridge

        Don’t see why we can’t love and respect each other and our creator equally but whatevs brah you have the right to believe or not believe. Your call.

        • Michael Neville

          When you start showing respect for us then we’ll return it. But as long as you call us hate-filled nihilists then don’t be surprised if you’re not held in high esteem

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Excuse me if you are not the particular demographic of society that I would actively seek acceptance with. I am just reacting to the hate directed at my deeply held religious beliefs.

        • Michael Neville

          you are not the particular demographic of society that I would actively seek acceptance with

          So why did you come here and why are you staying? You could have dropped in, spewed your antagonistic hatred, and left.

        • Greg G.

          Your deeply held religious beliefs seem to be superficial because you refuse to support them. It’s like you want to maintain a belief that they are “deeply held” but even you doubt them. That makes you so mad that you must lash out at people who have examined your “deeply held beliefs” and find them absurd. Don’t blame atheists for the absurdity of your “deeply held beliefs”.

        • Any hate you see here is just your attitude reflected back on you. Consider your role in this, Mr. Perfect.

        • Greg G.

          Yes, but we started it by existing.

        • Susan

          we started it by existing.

          !

        • TheNuszAbides

          what if Atheism Itself were the actual Unmoved Mover?

          i would make a Keanu Reeves gif but am too lazy.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          So you just admitted you’re here to shit in our punchbowl?

          Typical catholic…

        • Ask yourself if you could believe in leprechauns. Then consider how that applies to atheists.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          If the vile text you’ve been spewing around here is what you call ‘love’, it’s no wonder that religion, and catholicism in particular, is losing adherents every day, and those once catholic are refusing to abuse their children by bringing said children up inside such a horrible sadistic system.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      at the end of my life, the electrochemical pattern that’s ME will fade from my dying brain, and my remains will begin to cool and decompose.

      What silly nonsense about paying a ‘cheque’ are you on about, anyway?

    • Bleak emptiness? No, that’s just what a few Christians imagine.

      Say, I have an idea! You could actually ask atheists and see what their outlook on life is. I think you’ll be surprised.

      • Geoff Plumridge

        Why would I ask a blind person what the colour of the sky was?

        • Michael Neville

          Instead of doing what Bob suggested you come up with a silly analogy to excuse your unwillingness to actually talk to us about our outlooks on life. But we’re used to Christians refusing to accept that atheists are just like you except for one particular belief. You have a weird notion based solely on your dislike and distaste for atheists that we’re depressed nihilists. Nothing could be further from the truth. You’re the blind man refusing to be told about the color of the sky.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Difference being I am prepared to accept your lack of belief. Are you prepared to accept the presence of mine?

        • epeeist

          Are you prepared to accept the presence of mine?

          Nobody has any problems with you possessing belief, it’s just that we don’t think it has a referent. It’s rather like the dragon in Carl Sagan’s garage.

        • Greg G.

          You haven’t given your belifs nor supported them.

        • Michael Neville

          Believe anything and everything that you want. We’re more than happy to show those beliefs are based on lies, fallacies and wishful thinking. If you don’t want your beliefs criticized and you’re unwilling or unable to respond to those criticisms then you can leave, taking your hatred and bigotry with you.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That depends.

          Will you keep your belief to yourself, and not attempt to impose it on others without their consent, especially in their own space?

          Oh….you’ve already FAILED that test, so you’d be a fucking liar if you were to agree.

          And YOUR KIND have a track record of trying to seize power to FORCE others to put up with your shit, not unlike how you’re shitting in the punchbowl here and demanding praise for it, and claiming to be hard done, when if somebody had done the converse in your church you have LONG SINCE called the cops.

        • What?? Acknowledge that Christians exist? Over my dead body!

          Nope, I just go through life with my fingers in my ears and I ignore what I dislike, and everything is A-OK.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          do you do the LA-LA-LA-LA thing, too?

          😉

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you blanket categorize atheists as ‘blind’?

          If something exists, we can find a way to measure it, like ultraviolet light, even if we can’t see it.

          So tell me the attributes of this thing you’re claiming we’re blind to, and give me a RELIABLE, REPEATABLE mechanism for testing your claim.

        • Nice! Why should you ask anyone else’s opinion? You already know their truth better than they do.

          Must be nice being clairvoyant. Or just obnoxious.

        • Phil

          Seems to me that you are the blind person that had already decided despite all evidence to the contrary.

    • Michael Neville

      A bit of preaching from the bigot who claims he’s not here to preach.

  • Geoff Plumridge

    I worked in an abattoir when I was a young bloke. Sheep huddle terrified together before they are led individually to the stunning room. Atheists remind me of sheep. Terrified, huddled together in a corner, with no idea at all what is happening.

    • Otto

      You do realize the ‘sheep’ analogy has been used by the Church to describe their followers for literally centuries …right?

      Your Church describes YOU as a sheep…haha.

      • Pofarmer

        The other irony is that this is exactly what Theists have done to atheists over the centuries, and still would if they had the power, and still do where they have the power. This is a seriously messed up individual.

    • Greg G.

      Yet you are the one trying to spread fear but atheists aren’t afraid of what you are peddling. You are projecting your own fear to others. That’s another dead irony meter.

    • Damien Priestly

      So you been posting for only a few days…I understand why this is all you can come up with…sheep stories…

      Christians are the ones with Pastors and Shepherds for the flock (you).

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      Why?

      Show your work.

    • Since atheists aren’t terrified and huddled, why would you make this comparison?

      • Geoff Plumridge

        Really? Based on this site I beg to differ. If you really don’t believe in anything, why would you be eminently obsessed with those that do?

        • Michael Neville

          We would be happy to leave theists in general and Christians in particular alone but you won’t return the sentiment. There are creationists who believe the Earth is 6000 years old and life was poofed into existence in six days and want this mythology taught in schools instead of science. Catholic bishops own 15% of all hospitals in the US and refuse to have those hospitals provide any contraceptive services because Baby Jesus cries whenever a woman takes The Pill™. Fundamentalist evangelical Christians are trying to deny LGBTQs civil rights because Gawd hates butt sechs.

          We’re not obsessed with your beliefs, we’re obsessed with your persistence in forcing those beliefs on us and people we care about.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Have you actually read anything that is published on this site? You lot care that I believe exponentially more than we care that you don’t. You want people to abandon their faith to join your bleak hate filled congregation. If there was an example of hypocrisy more breviloquent in history I am unaware of it.

        • Michael Neville

          You’re hardly the one to complain about hypocrisy. You come here oozing disdain and contempt for atheists from every pore and then whine when we reflect your antipathy back at you. Remember that you came here, we didn’t seek you out.

          I’ve been a regular on this blog for years, I’m quite familiar with what’s published here. We discuss the inconsistencies, paradoxes and fallacies inherent in Christianity. Your objection to us is that we don’t hold your beliefs in the high regard you think we should.

          I notice that while you moan about a “bleak hate filled congregation” you neglected to respond to my complaint about Christians forcing their beliefs on us. Why is that?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m not from your country, nor from a modern money driven happy clappy evangelist faith. I’ve read at length the awful hate filled articles on this site, and each new article fills me with pity. I hope with all my heart that every atheist on the planet avoids eternal damnation. But I sincerely wonder if any atheist on the planet has a modicum of goodwill for little old stupid deluded theist me.

        • Greg G.

          You are from a traditional money-driven, guilt-laying Catholic faith. Embrace your doubts. They come from the part of your brain that survived the brainwashing.

        • Pofarmer

          Self awareness is not strong with this one.

        • Michael Neville

          It’s obvious that you’re not an American, you use British spelling and words like abattoir (Americans would say “slaughter house”). So what? That says nothing about Christians trying to impose their beliefs on people who don’t share those beliefs.

        • He’s from Australia.

        • Pofarmer

          You come here acting like an absolute ass and then whine about “Goodwill.”? You attempt to guilt shame and instill fear, and then whine about “Goodwill”? Physician heal thyself. I have nothing but hope for you, but I loathe the institution you’re associated with, both for what it’s done and what it’s failed to do, and how it’s abused people in the process, and how it continues to behave and make it’s followers behave in the modern world. So, really, you’re not accountable. You’re just being a “good Catholic” like you were trained to be. Hate those not like you. Be eternally guilty and worried that you’re not “faithful” enough not “Living the Faith” not “Giving it up.” not “sending up your prayers” I’m sure there’s many more, maybe these are too U.S. centric. Don’t be mad at us for not living in the alternate universe that’s in your head.

          Asshole.

        • I hope with all my heart that every atheist on the planet avoids eternal damnation.

          So you come here and scold us and show us your hateful side? You might want to reconsider your approach.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I hope with all my heart that every atheist on the planet avoids eternal damnation.

          As Jeff Dee put it, “And NOW comes the *threat*…”

          What you don’t understand is that all the evidence at present shows that once a body dies, the mind associated with it dies, too.

          So there may be a ‘heaven’ or ‘hell’, but there are no human ‘spirits’ there because nothing’s left over when the body dies.

        • epeeist

          As Jeff Dee put it, “And NOW comes the *threat*…”

          When the preaching doesn’t work you always get the ad baculum.

        • Greg G.

          I hope with all my heart that every atheist on the planet avoids eternal damnation.

          Bull. If that were true, you would try to get Christians to agree with one another.

          John 17:20-23 (NRSV)20 “I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

          Jesus seems to have believed that if all Christians believed the same thing, that it would impress the rest of the world so much that the whole world would come to believe. But we can see the disagreements between Paul and James and Peter from even before the Bible was written and the church had splintered into many different Christianities by the second century. The Catholic church has splintered several times, including the split that brought us Protestants. Now there are over 45,000 denominations.

          That disunity is never going to impress anybody. It makes that prayer the biggest failure ever. If Jesus can’t get a prayer answered, why would you think you would?

          Why would anybody want to follow a religion based on the greatest prayer failure of all time?

        • Ignorant Amos

          I’ve read at length the awful hate filled articles on this site,…

          Something you assert without support.

          …and each new article fills me with pity.

          A glutton for punishment you are then…smacks of “martyr complex” to me, which is a kind of masochism.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr_complex

          I hope with all my heart that every atheist on the planet avoids eternal damnation.

          And you think we give a shit, because….?

          But I sincerely wonder if any atheist on the planet has a modicum of goodwill for little old stupid deluded theist me.

          I think you’ll find that in meat world, we are all surrounded by friends, family, and associates, that we think are “little old stupid deluded theists”…and various other sizes and ages…the “stupid” and “deluded” being focused on their theism…who have no problem finding more than a modicum, but bundles of goodwill for on a daily basis. So why do you think that no atheist could ever find a modicum of goodwill for you? You need to get that “martyr complex” in check…it’s unhealthy.

        • Dom Saunders
        • epeeist

          If you really don’t believe in anything

          Who says we don’t believe anything? I believe that Guillame Machaut was the greatest of the Ars Nova movement and that Éric Srecki is the best epeeist I have ever seen.

        • Are you clueless? Naive? Not from the US?

          In my country, you can’t be elected unless you’re Christian (despite the prohibition against any religious test for public office in the Constitution). Christians are eager to tear down the separation of church and state, seemingly unaware that they’re a prime beneficiary.

          That the Christian god doesn’t exist isn’t the issue. Christians exist, and they’re causing problems.

          And back to your point, show me the terrified and huddled atheists.

  • Geoff Plumridge

    Well it has been fun and you’ve all confirmed my stereotypes. Hope life isn’t too stressful for you all and death doesn’t terrify you too much. Peace be with you all.

    • Greg G.

      You introduced yourself as an ass and you got treated like an ass.

      You projected your own fears onto us. You have no beef with us. It is your own doubts you are arguing against. You should not fight those doubts. They are what makes us human and leads us to new ideas and to abandon the old ideas that do harm to ourselves and others.

      • Geoff Plumridge

        You missed my point entirely. Hatred of my faith emanates from this site. I merely wished to express my pity for all atheists.

        • Michael Neville

          We don’t hate your faith. We’re not fond of some of its practitioners but if you’re polite then we’ll be polite back. Since you came here full of disdain and contempt for us then you shouldn’t be surprised when you’re responded to similarly.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          No. You are a bunch of patronising jerks with a superiority complex. You mock what you fail to understand and then play the victim when someone actually has the temerity to stand up to your derision. As I continue to state, you only inspire pity in me.

        • Michael Neville

          You’ve been asked many questions in the time you’ve be at this blog. Questions like “what’s your evidence that your god exists” and “why do you believe in any gods”. You have yet to answer any of these questions. Instead you spew your anti-atheist bile and pretend that we hate you when we’re merely reflecting your loathing for us. You’re the one who came here, we didn’t find you and drag you out of your hole.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m not here to preach or convert, just to object.

        • Greg G.

          But not to object in a constructive manner. You are fighting your own common sense but blaming atheists for your doubt. You know we are right but that makes you mad because you have been braiwashed. Take it up with your brainwashers.

        • Michael Neville

          So you came to display your anti-atheist bigotry. Then why do you whine when we’re hostile to your hatred?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why?

          Do we butt into your churches on Sundays and start an aggressive attack on your preacher in his/her own pulpit?

        • I’m not here to preach or convert

          Yes, we can tell.

        • Rudy R

          Object with the best evidence you have that a god exists.

        • Greg G.

          He has done so. Here is the complete list of his evidence:

        • Rudy R

          And of course, crickets from the peanut gallery.

        • Greg G.

          That is precisely how you have acted in every post. You provoked the treatment you receive. We don’t turn the other cheek for arrogant bastards.

        • Pofarmer

          You mock what you fail to understand

          Perhaps we ain’t the ones who don’t understand, chief.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Dude, where that’s concerned, we’re mirrors:

          Act like an asshole to us, we’ll reciprocate.

          Leave us alone, we’ll likewise reciprocate.

        • No, that’s just whining. What’s actually pitiable is your continued bloviating, which shows that you have no actual arguments. And maybe you kinda know that. Maybe you’re seeing that your faith rowboat is slowly sinking. And maybe you’re getting a little anxious about that and are projecting on us.

          Do you want to talk about it?

        • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

          What could your faith have done to get people angry?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          So you admit the hatred? Wow maybe I need to wear a yellow cross on my clothing so I can be re-educated in one of your camps

        • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

          If you’re just going troll rather than engage, FUCK OFF TROLL

        • Geoff Plumridge

          So sorry that you are so angry. Peace be with you.

        • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

          Then make an effort to help.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Peace be with you.

          The passive-aggressive xtian’s way to say FUCK YOU.

          And don’t think we don’t realize it…we’re just inoculated against the bullshit ideas you’re still trapped within.

        • Michael Neville

          We’re just reflecting your hatred back at you. You’re an anti-atheist bigot but for some stupid reason known only to you you’re surprised that we aren’t impressed by your animosity.

        • Pofarmer

          Why don’t you answer his honest question?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I hate being attacked, especially on invalid grounds that use superstitious bullshit lies as attacks.

        • Are you deliberately avoiding the question, or was that accidental?

          The question is: can you think of any possible justification atheists might legitimately have for being annoyed at Christians?

        • Greg G.

          It is your personality that rubs people the wrong way. People who don’t act like jerks aren’t treated the way you are treated.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          When did questioning and noting inconsistencies become ‘hate’?

          I still say you’re fighting us in lieu of the little rational voice in your head you can’t silence.

        • Hatred of my faith emanates from this site.

          It doesn’t, but let’s just go with that. You’re able to turn that frown upside down by providing good evidence for your position.

          Got any?

    • Greg G.

      Wait! You owe me some answers to some questions. You tried to dodge them by throwing out a question which I answered. If you run away, you will look like you have no answers. They were pretty easy to answer moral questions.

    • Otto
      • Geoff Plumridge

        It is site chock full of jerks. I just wanted to fit in, use the language of hate that you lot are so familiar with.

        • Greg G.

          You came here scting like a jerk so you were treated as a jerk. If you had introduced yourself politely and produced interesting questions, you would have been treated much differently.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          What is ‘jerk’-y about noting the inconsistency, power-madness, and general evil intent of a belief system that abuses its power?

        • Otto

          If you can’t stand people that look at your religion with a critical eye, and just consider anyone that does as engaging in ‘hate’, I can only conclude you are rather insecure in your belief.

        • epeeist

          I can only conclude you are rather insecure in your belief.

          Either that or alternatively that his is personal identity is so tightly bound up with his religion that any criticism of it is seen as an unwarranted, personal attack.

        • Dom Saunders
    • Pofarmer

      To quote Mark Twain. “I was dead for billions of years before I was born, I don’t see why a few billion more should be any inconvenience.”

    • Jim Dailey

      I agree with many of your assertions and applaud yo ur willingness to confront these people, on their terms and in their domain.
      I encourage you to continue to exercise your particular skill, as it has flashes of brilliance. “Explaining a kaleidoscope to a chicken” and “wearing a yellow cross in a re-education camp” are two of your comments I found well phrased.
      These people (new atheists) have co-opted large segments of the culture because they, for some reason, are allowed to indulge in sophisms, and Christians are castigated for doing so.
      When you tire of engaging these 4 or 5 fan boys of Bob, and wish to see their dopey arguments shot down in philosophical flames, I encourage you to explore Dave Armstrong’s posts on Patheos Catholic.
      Dave, a former atheist, exposes their empty nihilism for what it is, and disposes their nasty invective in a way that is both intellectually and viscerally satisfying.
      Certain of the people here are worth actually talking to in a legitimate debate. Seidensticker, epeeist, grimlock, and Neville (at times) ask probing questions and make observations that will cause you to research your faith more deeply, and will result in a steel manning of your ability to counter these arguments.
      Enjoy!

      • Ctharrot

        1. Hmm. Now you got me wondering how long it would take Armstrong to ban a commenter who wrote something like, “I worked in an abattoir when I was a young bloke. Sheep huddle terrified together before they are led individually to the stunning room. Catholics remind me of sheep. Terrified, huddled together in a corner, with no idea at all what is happening.” Not long, I suspect.

        2. As for wearing a yellow cross in a reeducation camp, I fail to see anything brilliant about such a Godwinesque straw man. Has anyone here even remotely suggested such a thing? Do you feel better, imagining us as the kind of people who would treat others so inhumanely and shabbily?

        And let’s recall that badging and segregating religious minorities–Jews specifically–were not something the Nazis cooked up from scratch. Versions of these practices go back centuries in Christendom (and elsewhere). Laws confining Jews to ghettos, denying them equal treatment, etc. were justified as being founded on the sacred canons.

        • Pofarmer

          The projection is rather chilling, don’t you thing?

        • Ctharrot

          More amusing than chilling, by my reckoning. But that’s probably because I’m habitually inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt, and don’t think as poorly of theists as Jim and Geoff seem to think of atheists.

        • What fraction of 1930s German anti-Semitism can be traced back to Martin Luther? Most of it, I’d imagine.

        • Ctharrot

          Dunno about the relative fractions, as such. Luther and his Die Juden und Ihren Lügen had a lot to do with it, I’m sure, but historical Catholic anti-Judaism was no slouch. For centuries, legal discrimination, forced residence in ghettos, blood libel, pogroms, etc. made Jewish life exceedingly unpleasant in the Papal States and other Catholic regions. Recall that during every official Good Friday liturgy until about 1960, Catholic congregants heard their priests refer to the “perfidious Jews.”

        • Michael Neville

          Antisemitism was rampant in Middle Europe long before Luther came on the scene. Persecutions against Jews were widespread during the Crusades, beginning in 1095, when a number of communities, especially on the Rhine and the Danube, were massacred. The Black Death which devastated Europe in the 14th century also gave rise to widespread persecution. In the face of the terrifying spread of the plague, the Jews served as scapegoats and were accused of poisoning the wells. As a result, many Jewish communities in western and central Europe were destroyed in a wave of violence between 1348 and 1350. For example, some two thousand Jews were massacred by burning in Strasbourg, in February 1349, upon a decision by the city council, before the plague had reached the city. In the German states a total of approximately 300 Jewish communities were destroyed during this period, because of Jews being killed or driven out.

          Another aspect of medieval antisemitism was the many restrictions imposed on the Jews. They were excluded from many occupations because of the fear of competition with the local population. For the most part they could not own land, since, under the feudal system, the pledge of loyalty required from a vassal upon the enfoeffment of land had the form of a Christian oath; however, there were exceptions. Their residence in cities was often limited to specific areas known as ghettos. Following the Fourth Lateran Council, in 1215, Jews were also ordered to wear distinctive clothing, in some instances a circular badge. Some Jews managed to evade the humiliating requirement of wearing a badge by bribing the local authorities. In the later Middle Ages, Jews were expelled from smaller and larger regions across western Europe as well as the German lands, including monarchy-wide expulsions from England, in 1290, and France, in 1306 and 1394. The greatest expulsions of Jews were in Spain (1492) and Portugal (1496), where Jews were ordered to convert to Christianity, or to leave the country within six or eleven months, respectively.

          Martin Luther (1483-1546) was following an ancient tradition of antisemitism.

        • Yes, good points. Luther obviously got his antisemitism from somewhere.

        • Greg G.

          That was one of the positions of the Catholic Church that Luther agreed with.

      • Susan

        I agree with many of your assertions

        No surprise there. Which ones and what is the support for them?

        applaud your willingness to confront these people on their terms

        My terms don’t include vacuous insult, bare assertions and zero substance. Would you applaud me if they did?

        particular skill

        If poo flinging is a skill.

        These people (new atheists) have co-opted large segments of the culture because they, for some reason, are allowed to indulge in sophisms

        sophism: a fallacious argument especially one used deliberately to deceive

        Do you have anything to back that up? Judging by your history here, I doubt you’ll support it. But I live in hope.

        Do either you or Geoff have anything but assertions, insults and evasive maneuvers when asked to support your assertions?

        • Pofarmer

          It takes a special kind of gall to applaud someone who’s main schtick is passive aggressive victim blaming.

      • Pofarmer

        You’ve just exposed yourself as unpleasant and superficial as Dave Armstrong. That is one appalling place.

      • Otto

        Dave Armstrong baits people to come to his blog and then bans them when the light is shined on the Roman Catholic Church because he gets butt hurt. I have no idea why that is impressive.

        • Pofarmer

          Because Dave acts powerful and they worship power. MCGA.

        • Susan

          I have no idea why that is impressive.

          Jim’s a fanboy.

      • Michael Neville

        On his blog Dave Armstrong quoted one of my posts here on this blog. He critiqued my post. He did inform me and gave me a link. When I responded to his criticism he banned me and deleted my reply without giving any reasons. I was polite and responded directly to his comments so I have no idea why I was banned. But don’t think for a second that I was favorably impressed by Armstrong.

      • This needs a response, but one wonders where to begin …

        • epeeist

          This needs a response

          No, it really doesn’t. All Jim is essentially doing is egging Geoff on and offering to hold his coat. I believe the phrase you use of there is “All hat and no cattle”, though I think the British expression “All mouth and no trousers” is a better description.

        • Otto

          I would be interested as to the “large segments of the culture” that have been co-opted and the gaslighting response that is inevitably needed to explain it.

        • Susan

          I would be interested in the “large segments of the culture” that have been co-opted

          When women got the vote, everything went to hell.

      • Dom Saunders

        What I don’t understand is why are you all so pressed with us and how we think? We really don’t care about you guys and your beliefs, so long as you don’t use them to abuse people (and Catholics, above everyone else, can’t even speak when it comes to that situation), yet you feel it’s great and bold to “confront us in our own domain.” This isn’t D&D, we’re not dragons, and you’re not some brave-ass knight. You’re a petty religious keyboard warrior who just wants to fight, lecture down to, and argue with people whose mere existence troubles your entire worldview, and it sincerely bothers you that we don’t care about either you or your friend Geoff, the same guy you’re giving the Internet equivalent of a circle jerk handjob to.

        You’re dismissed. We don’t care about you.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      Geoffie-poo, if you start with a closed mind, it’s hard for any light or air to reach it and clean / freshen it up.

      We’ll enjoy your absence.

    • epeeist

      Hope life isn’t too stressful for you all and death doesn’t terrify you too much.

      Death doesn’t terrify me at all, though I can’t say I am too keen on the dying bit. When I go I hope they will read some Robert Louis Stevenson before they attend the wake that I have left payment for in my will.

    • Damien Priestly

      Well, have you thought about Islamic Hell, which will be full of Christians, or Buddhist reincarnation (as a worm, cockroach etc.). Or for that matter — John Calvin may be right and you didn’t get picked in God’s lottery…

      You are the one worrying about Hell…not atheists. We think of Christian damnation the same way you worry about non-Christian damnation.

    • al kimeea

      death doesn’t terrify enough to want an imaginary friend that will save me from it, if I kiss his ass properly with love

      you OTOH…

      • Geoff Plumridge

        That has to be the most ignorant summation of Christianity I have ever read. Congratulations.

        • al kimeea

          Thanks. The most ignorant summation of Xianity I ever read was The Holey BuyBull.

          Your fellating of Jebus isn’t going to reward you with trillions of years of worshipping his DaddySelf? What a pointless exercise.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          The funniest thing is that you really think we are upset that you don’t believe. That really is terribly amusing.

        • al kimeea

          The funniest thing is adults behaving like a toddler having an invisible friend. An all powerful friend who doesn’t mind that his holey men have been raping children for centuries all while rewarding the kisses of his followers like you with an eternity on your knees.

          You’re sure you’ve got his favour don’t you? You’re one of the lucky ones to avoid the horror of death. LOL.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          You really want to believe don’t you? You are like a kid who got upset and is lashing out because they got told Santa Claus wasn’t real. I feel sorry for you.

        • epeeist

          You really want to believe don’t you?

          Projection much? Or just another example of your condescension?

        • al kimeea

          they’re often uttered in the same breath

        • Michael Neville

          Why should we want to believe in something for which there is zip point shit evidence? That has got to be the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve spew some really stupid shit already.

        • al kimeea

          Oh, I did. Especially when the nice elderly people told me that the Holey Text had all life’s answers. Then I read the BuyBull (after learning of hell at recess) and was entirely surprised to find it is a mythology like any other. Your deity is no more important to me than Odin is to you.

          Mocking. Lashing. Tomato. Pangolin.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Whose this “we” ya talk about? Because I can guarantee ya that there a loads of Christians out there that are upset that we don’t believe.

        • al kimeea

          Heh heh. I was gonna go down that road. The US is plagued by miffed xians wasting legal resources & community $$$$ on clearly unconstitutional matters. SMH. Canuckistan has no such constitutional restriction and suffers far less similar examples, although they are becoming more common.

          For all his apathy, this guy was upset enough to wander by & announce his joy at our being hell-bound.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Still really want us to be upset that you don’t believe. Poor pathetic children wanting attention from Mummy & Daddy.

        • al kimeea

          WTFF?

        • And you’re here for what reason? I thought it was to share good arguments for Christianity, but I haven’t seen any. Perhaps I misunderstood your purpose.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m only here because I was reacting to the virulent bigotry and hate directed at my faith. I’m not here to convert anyone or to argue that God is real (as much as you poor lost souls want me to). You lot are doing a great job on your own of demonstrating to everyone how hate filled and bleak an existence it must be when you have no faith.

        • Greg G.

          You are bringing virulent bigotry and hate. Then when you get push-back, you interpret it as virulent bigotry and hate. Your faith gets all the respect it deserves. If you want respect for your religion, show us the evidence that supports it. Faith is not a substitute for evidence.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Yep. And your condescension and hate towards those that have faith gets the disdain that it deserves. Bigots are boring.

        • Greg G.

          Yet you have nothing better to do.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I love how you all desperately want me to care about your non-belief. And so it continues… just a bunch of sad desperate fools.

        • Greg G.

          Nah, how can we be sad with all this hilarious entertainment from Geoff the Clown?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I’m equally amused at you lot. Proud, disdainful, arrogant, yet in reality lost little boys and girls that want to meet the Easter Bunny. I pity you all.

        • Greg G.

          It’s just fun to trade barbs for amusement.

          I see the same evidence for Yahweh as for Zeus. There is more evidence for the existence of the Easter Bunny until you realize that people are actually gaslighting you. You haven’t figured that they have done it to you, too, with god thingies

        • Geoff Plumridge

          I actively choose to believe in something over the hate filled void that you people exist in. Again, I pity the lost scared angry little children you all are.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Bwaaaahahahaha!

          I thought ya said ya weren’t upset…ya sure seem to be an example of upset to me. Get a grip of yer life ya daft bastard.

        • Greg G.

          You have filled your void with sanctimonious hate. You are projecting. Just because you succumbed to religion through fear does not mean everybody lives in fear. Put on your big boy knickers.

        • Geoff “Love” Plumridge said, “All this hate is making me sick. Goodbye and God bless.” Does he not realize that he’s the source of the hate?

        • A lot of the hateful comments from Geoff “God is wuv!!” Plumridge seem to have vanished. Weird.

        • MR

          (whispers) Spends an awful lot of time in atheist chats for someone pretending not to care….

        • Greg G.

          Then runs away when asked to support his projections.

        • Greg G.

          I had a thought to find a clown picture to include but didn’t want to invest that much effort. If I had thought of that one, I would have done it. It is just as I imagine him.

        • I added a little blur to the original. I think Geoff would approve.

        • You’re just here to mock and hate. That’s your interpretation of “share God’s love”?

        • Geoff Plumridge

          Don’t try and interpret a religion you don’t follow. My religion doesn’t instruct me to treat those that pour hate and scorn on my beliefs and my God with sunshine and lollipops. After all, mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts. As clearly demonstrated by the conga line of hate filled morons that grace these pages.

        • epeeist

          Don’t try and interpret a religion you don’t follow.

          You make a common mistake that many theist who come here do, many of us here were actually brought up as Christians.

          After all, mockers will come with their mocking, following after theirown lusts. As clearly demonstrated by the conga line of hate filled morons that grace these pages.

          And many of us left the religion because of comments like these, it shows a religion bereft of empathy and little concerned with truth.

        • Geoff Plumridge

          And once again, you fiercely want to imagine that I am here solely to try and entice you back into that faith, or hope that I meekly turn the other cheek whilst you blithely insult and belittle our deeply held beliefs. I’m awfuly sorry to point out the fact that you people are sad hypocritical scum that can’t stand getting what you do happily dish out.

          The worst part is that those of you that were brought up in the faith turned your face away from the way, the truth and the light. Well he may be the good shepherd, but those sheep that keep running from him into the darkness he will eventually give up on and will let them fall off the cliff.

        • Ignorant Amos

          And once again, you fiercely want to imagine that I am here solely to try and entice you back into that faith,…

          Wise ta fuck up. No one here imagines any such nonsense. Even if ya were, you’re as poor an example as I’ve witnessed here. You’re just a wee saddo theist that has been triggered.

          … or hope that I meekly turn the other cheek whilst you blithely insult and belittle our deeply held beliefs.

          We could give zero fucks what ya do. You came here and started with yer verbal diarrhea, so mockery and ridicule of your unsubstatiated crap is the order of the day.

          I’m sorry to point out the fact that you people are sad hypocritical scum that can’t stand getting what you do happily dish out.

          Bwaaahahaha…Geoff, yer not even good at it ya amateurish fuckwit.

          Did ya know yer God maximally enjoys getting gangbanged?

          https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/4932

        • Greg G.

          And once again, you fiercely want to imagine that I am here solely to try and entice you back into that faith, or hope that I meekly turn the other cheek whilst you blithely insult and belittle our deeply held beliefs.

          That is the opposite of what he says in his post. You are projecting your attitude on others.

        • Greg G.

          My religion doesn’t instruct me to treat those that pour hate and scorn on my beliefs and my God with sunshine and lollipops.

          You must be another Christian who doesn’t read the Bible.

          1 Peter 3:15b (NRSV)Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you;

          No problem. Most Christians are making it up as they go.

        • I’m not here to “pour hate and scorn” on your beliefs, poor baby; I’m here to have an intellectual conversation. Does God exist? Great–let’s get the evidence out on the table so we can all take a look. Can a skeptic give Christianity any more respect?

          Grow a thicker skin and bring some reasons for your religious worldview.

        • Ignorant Amos

          You came here ya dopey prick….so something has ya wanting. So asinine with just the one head…amazing drills.

        • You’re welcome to interpret Christianity any way you want. Some groups, however, make a big deal about the evangelization thing.