Stupid Arguments Christians Should Avoid #49: Science is Built on Christianity (2 of 3)

Stupid Arguments Christians Should Avoid #49: Science is Built on Christianity (2 of 3) February 8, 2020

A Christian article argues that science is built on Christianity. If we forget all the marvelous achievements of other ancient civilizations (the Romans’ roads and buildings, the Greeks’ democracy and philosophy, the Egyptians’ engineering to build the pyramids, and India and China and so on), Christian Europe looks pretty unique. (But then who doesn’t when you eliminate all the competition?)

The article tells us that for all the impressive attributes of those civilizations, only Christian society had experimental science, and the rest is history.

The argument that Christian society uniquely had experimental science is probably debatable, but let’s set that aside. More important, the argument fails because Christian society didn’t have any science to brag of for well over a thousand years after it became the ruling religion within Europe! (More.) So much for Christianity as the talisman that unlocks Nature’s secrets.

This is part two of a three-part series (part 1 here).

Here are five traits of Christianity that the article claims make it a unique incubator for science.

1. God is rational

We believe that God is rational, and that he created an orderly world which mirrors His rationality. So by testing the way the world responds to our activity—via experiments—we can gain reliable knowledge for the future.

I want to see in the Bible where God makes plain that nature was designed to be understandable. Otherwise, the argument is simply an unevidenced claim. “See all this science-y stuff that has brought such benefits to society? We’re responsible for that. You’re welcome.”

And as for an orderly, understandable world, it’s not especially understandable. Get a doctorate in biology, chemistry, or physics and you’ll see that it is anything but straightforward or intuitive. Consider chaos theory, which says that systems can be deterministic and yet inherently unpredictable. Or Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, which states that there is a limit to how much precision we can simultaneously know about the properties of elementary particles. Or quantum mechanics, which bewilders our common sense.

To make it worse, humanity will not only never know how much future knowledge about reality we will learn, we will never even know the fraction that we will never know (more). Are we capable of understanding 99 percent of the truths about nature or 1 percent? We’ll never know.

This argument is ridiculous coming from an author who is likely a Creationist but who celebrates science and urges us to conduct experiments and follow the evidence. Last time I checked, Creationists attack science (at least the science that offends their theology), and Christians never build their worldview with evidence.

2. Man mirrors God

We believe that we are images of God. Therefore the world’s rational structure is transparent to the light of our own God-given reason, such that we can gradually come to know it better than our ancestors did.

If we’re created in God’s image, why is the “God’s ways are not our ways” argument paraded out whenever God appears to be irrational or immoral (more, more)? We either reason like God or we don’t—you can’t have it both ways.

And, as seen in the previous point, the universe is hardly “transparent” to human minds that were tuned by evolution simply to survive.

The claim “the world’s rational structure is transparent to the light of our own God-given reason” is nothing more than a deepity. A deepity is a statement that, to the extent that it’s true, is trivial, and to the extent that it’s profound, is false. We understand as much of nature as we understand—that’s true but trivial. And (as the author surely intends) to the extent that this claim is profound—our complete understanding of nature makes clear that our brains were tuned by God to understand a Nature tuned by God to be understandable—it’s false.

3. Christianity provides unique insight into time

We believe that the world did not always exist, and won’t disappear then reappear in an endless loop of meaningless cosmic cycles.

This is presumably an attack on the Hindu idea of cyclic time, but I don’t know that I’d throw stones if my Bible’s idea of time were that God created everything in six days.

The well-evidenced idea that time, space, matter, and energy had a beginning 13.8 billion years ago comes from science. Science hasn’t learned anything from religious mythology. If the Bible were scientifically useful, it might’ve contained Maxwell’s equations or the statement of mass-energy equivalence. It doesn’t even have something as simple and practical as a recipe for soap.

4. Christians as stewards of the earth

We believe that the world was created “good,” is sharply distinct from God Himself, and subject to us as its “stewards.” So it is legitimate and good for us to engage it and try to improve it

Great—tell your fellow religionists to take the lead on environmental stewardship. Help get climate change and evolution viewed correctly within conservative Christianity.

5. Christians love progress

We believe in a type of (non-utopian) progress, and think that the world can and should become a more humane place, where suffering diminishes and justice prevails more widely.

You’d think that a benevolent God would want the best for his favorite creation, so why doesn’t he create that? He allows humanity to stumble forward when he could perfect conditions in an instant? In fact, since God has already created a perfect world in heaven, why bother with the crucible of earth? Alternatively, if God deliberately created this imperfect world, how can Christians be presumptuous enough to mess with it?

Ironically, Christianity is usually at the rear of the parade, complaining about social progress. Progress is progressive, but Christianity is conservative (more).

Next up: the article ends with some over-the-top claims about Christianity’s value to science.

Concluded in part 3.

One of the proofs of the immortality of the soul
is that myriads have believed it.
They also believed the world was flat.

— Mark Twain

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Image from Jared Tarbell, CC license
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  • #1 God is as rational as ignorant of anything modern science has revealed us. If He’s “rational”, in order to have created and understand a world as this one, He must be something far beyond that Iron Age tribal deity featured on the Bible.

    #2 That we are made in God’s image says nothing good of Him.

    #3 Even with no Big Crunch, some astronomers have proposed similar models. Unlike in the Bible it seems space and time will not end (I’m purposefully leaving aside the post-Revelation Heaven, etc. and know about the Universe during the Dark Era).

    #4 Utter BS. Tell that to the Donald and his dominionist cronies.

    #5 Then why people as those in #4 are against, say, universal healthcare?

    • Angel Rosas

      No, God is simple. Not like your delusion. God made it all and is the creator. Think of the ue4 engine. How are we different than the characters in?

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Nope.

        Not buying it.

        DEMONSTRATE this ‘god’ of yours, you pushy twit.

        • Angel Rosas

          You exist. You are loved.

        • Bob Jase

          But he’ll send you to hell anyways because that’s real love.

        • Michael Neville

          I exist because my parents had sex. Your sadistic bully of a god is an abusive lover.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I *didn’t* ask for ‘Useless Deepities’ for $100, Alex, I asked for a demonstration of your ‘god’.

          SHOW IT TO US…or admit you’re lying for your own advantage.

      • I will pray Eldath, the Green Goddess of waterfalls, springs, pools, druidic groves, and peace, for you.

        • Angel Rosas

          It is true. Angels are actually “aliens” and don’t have your best intentions. Retard.

        • Could you pass me some of the stuff you’re smoking, retard?. Yeah, and they can open portals between Heaven and Earth and fly using hydrogen-filled sacs.

        • Lord Backwater

          How many “aliens” can dance on the head of a pin?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re slipping. Your genuine self is showing here, and it’s irrational, prone to fits of rage at being contradicted with facts, and juvenile enough to lash out rather than accepting reality.

        • Angel Rosas

          You would, if you were pagan. God created everything.

        • So be it. I will pray the Great Orion Nebula for you.

        • Lord Backwater

          Did God create the pagans? Why would He do that if his first commandment is to put Him above all other Gods?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          You don’t get ‘god’ as a tool until you show it to us.

        • Angel Rosas

          Genuine? You don’t want to accept the truth. You want to be junevile. In a pagan world, there would be debauchery everywhere and no morals. Only with Christians and the commandments of God did we have morals. His law is the only way to live. A moral law. Notice you don’t want to contradict my claims. If your logic is solidproof, it must withstand everything and not ignore something just because it’s “icky”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND do *not* get to claim to be mind-readers (which would be magic, and a *sin* in xtianity) in your pathetic attacks to try to gaslight us *good* people, trying to shame us into granting your self-serving assertions.

          I know reality, and reality does NOT correspond to what YOUR KIND try to browbeat or gaslight your victims into…if reality matched YOUR KIND’s assertions, it’d be *evident*, not something you have to pollute skeptical boards with, shouting like the madman at Speaker’s Corner.

        • Angel Rosas

          Reality? You don’t want to accept reality. Your version of good is evil. Calling good evil, and evil good. Bitter sweet, and sweet bitter. It’s all real. The psychics and stuff had genuine experiences even though it was not from their own power. It’s all demonic, and you’re falling for it. The evidence is there, and you don’t want to see it. The apostles, and all the prophets of the Bible. Morality. Your good people aren’t here if it weren’t for us. Don’t baby murder.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You keep trying to claim to know my mind.

          I’m telling you you’re wrong, and DON’T know my mind. I’m the ultimate arbiter of my mind, so your gaslighting *again* comes to naught.

          I also see you throwing insults rather than *showing* this ‘god’ of yours, which would be a simpler solution to your credibility problem.

          If a person won’t SHOW something, but defends it fiercely, that can be taken as a strong probability that the person KNOWS their assertion is untrue but said person is too emotionally immature to abandon what they can’t show.

        • Angel Rosas

          Ultimate arbiter of your mind doesn’t mean shit. You die to a bullet, you die to gas. You still die. You picking what’s right or wrong is foolish. Let’s agree on a objective measurement. Basis for everything.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Minds are NOT objective in *any* way, shape, or form.

          They are the ULTIMATE in subjectivity.

          And YOUR KIND’s attempts to gaslight and move the goalposts don’t change that.

          The only *somewhat* mutual measure of morality that I see is based on *harm*, and the avoidance/minimization thereof. THAT is measurable, but the results DON’T lead to what your superstition tries to foist on the world.

        • Angel Rosas

          We have to think, and see. Hurting is moral? Only because it affects you, pagan. If something happened to my bestality porn, I would probably throw a hitch-fit and claim that was a example of immorality. Thankfully, I don’t have to go through that anymore. It’s faded away.

        • Doubting Thomas

          Yes, we get it. You like to watch animals have sex and possibly want to join in. I could see how such desires would cause a self loathing that you think could be cured by Jesus magic.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re not even good at twisting somebody’s words…you’re particularly pathetic.

          I said harm was *measurable*, not *moral*.

          Get with the program.

        • Lucy

          I had a psychic experience. It was caused by brainwaves traveling through the air and entering my brain from another source. And that is not the same as saying it was under my own power – but that is because I don’t know where the brainwaves were from. Maybe my future self, or maybe from someone else’s brain, but either way, I don’t know.

          But a God is not needed to cause that, either. You lose again.

        • Lucy

          So apparently, this is debauchery in your world:

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/efcc3a8ba431323e8b241dd69177286ce657dd191397fae370a817161824da87.png

          That’s a Wiccan service at an Air Force base. Note that everyone is standing respectfully in uniform (as they are supposed to in the military) and holding up the objects required for services. If that is debaucery, then so is holding up a cross and a censer and saying the Lord’s Prayer.

          Seriously, the Hora (a Jewish dance performed at a bar or bat mitzvah) is closer to debauchery than this. As are the Purim rituals. And those aren’t 69sexual either. And those, unlike this service, are part of a monotheistic religion – the one that wrote the original text that Christianity was based on. And the practicers of that religion, Jews, will engage in debate about this sometimes.

      • Susan

        How are we different than the characters in?

        You’re a troll who’s stolen someone’s account.

        Find a better past time.

    • “That we are made in God’s image says nothing good of Him.”

      This raises two questions.
      1. If we are in god’s sacred image, why does he tell us to cut some of it off? “Oh, that foreskin thing – that was a mistake”
      2. Also if we are in the deity’s image, shouldn’t we all be invisible?

  • Phil Rimmer

    Jim Al Khalili’s documentary series (BBC, Al Jazeera) and books The House of Widom and Pathfinders put much of the lie to a Christian primacy.

    The origins of the scientific method hearken back to the Islamic World, not the Western one. Around 250 years before Roger Bacon expounded on the need for experimental confirmation of his findings, an Arab scientist named Ibn al-Haytham was saying the exact same thing.

    https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/03/the_muslim_scientist_who_birthed_the_scientific_method.html

    • Lying for Jesus again. So Christian as usual despite John’s warnings of the fate for liars in Revelation.

    • Ah, yes, but he doesn’t count because he influenced Muslim science, not Christian science.

      Checkmate, atheists!

  • Norman Parron

    In the midevil ages the church was busy burning scientist on stakes or jailing them, along with BS like witches and inquisitions, & crusades… and isLame was busy doing great science. After the 1800s the secular scientists did great work in Europe and isLame went down the tubes because they went religious st00pid. And the history I’ve seen xtians are as science st00pid as they always were…individuals may be better than their BS religion but as a whole they suck.
    As a woman try and get PROPER & SCIENCE based medical treatment at most of the hospitals purchased by religious aholes.

    • Angel Rosas

      You’re stupid and possessed. You’re being controlled. Don’t behave like a little child and control yourself. I was like you.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        ^^^ CLASSIC example of “Every accusation is a confession.”

        • Angel Rosas

          It’s true. If I confess that transgenders are evil, would you say I’m a bigot? Yes. Then the same logic can apply here. What is the irrefutable parts of your logic.
          What is truth?

        • Michael Neville

          If you say that transgenders are evil that’s prima facie evidence that you’re a bigot.

        • Illithid

          Truth is that which corresponds to reality, as adjucated by predictive power. If transfolk were evil, they would exhibit cruelty and inflict harm on others to a greater extent than does the general population. They do not.

          The question of whether Christians are evil is left as an exercise.

        • RоnnіеṾ

          Your comments are shìt. You must be really old and senile, or maybe it’s HIV dementia.

        • Illithid

          Your comments are shìt. You must be really old and senile, or maybe it’s HIV dementia.

          Whereas your comments are apparently so worthless that you’re ashamed to let people read through them.

        • Est vir qui adest.

    • abb3w

      FWIW, the downturn in Islam seems to have been a bit earlier, after Ibn Rushd was shouted down.

  • Angel Rosas

    They’re religions with science. God made it all, and the science shows. It’s in the pudding. Jesus is real. Science was passed down by geniuses like Issac Newton.

    • larry parker

      Please show the scientific evidence for your god. Peer-reviewed is preferred, and please, no logical fallacies.
      Lots of people have tried but all have failed. Maybe you can do better than all the apologists before you.

      • Angel Rosas

        Simple. Gravity and other constructs. The world was created on a dime, and is working. You can’t say it isn’t.

        • Doubting Thomas

          We understand that gravity exists. Gravity doesn’t require a god.

        • Angel Rosas

          It does. Being suspended on “nothing” is quite the feat. There is also spirituality, and “physics” that actually were used by the CIA for “remote-viewing” even though the psychics were being used by “spirits”.

        • Doubting Thomas

          I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.

        • Angel Rosas

          I’m being serious, and if you can’t bring a rebuttal then research the “remote-viewer” by CIA. It’s a legitimate thing that happened. Look into it.

        • Doubting Thomas

          No thanks. I know when I’m about to be drug into someone’s den of craziness.

        • Angel Rosas

          >”no thanks”
          >Evidence
          You’re probably going to fall for the fallen angel shit. That’s what the CIA did.

        • Doubting Thomas

          Ahhh, the irony of the Christian claiming that an atheist is going to fall for fallen angel bullshit. This is getting good.

        • Angel Rosas

          You would. Claiming to be “aliens” and to be the creators. It ties into your desire to be God. You don’t want the truth. You want your desire to be fulfilled, at the cost of others. During the fifth seal, will you persecute others?

        • Doubting Thomas

          And people complain when we equate religion with mental illness…..

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s you. You’re mentally ill. You need to believe. God is real.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          “I’m rubber, you’re glue” is particularly juvenile…I’d put it at typical kindergarten level cognition.

          Do better.

        • Angel Rosas

          Using vibrant language doesn’t mean you’re not a idiot. Me calling someone for what they are, and them calling me something else would be wrong.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Misusing the language demonstrates it’s not your milk tongue, and that you’re likely a troll of foreign provenance.

          And you’re STILL full of hooey, who’s throwing insults to try to cast heat rather than light, since you KNOW that light will expose your lies and bad intent.

        • Angel Rosas

          Exactly how? Fitting since you’re doing the same. Afraid of your works being exposed to light, and self. You pick, and choose. You’re a pagan, right?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOU are picking fights by forcefully making assertions and refusing to defend them with EVIDENCE.

          And *now*, typical of YOUR KIND, you’re trying to throw the ‘moral leveling’ card in a feeble attempt to shame, or at least confuse the uncertain, while also demanding unilateral disarmament of our side in the shaming attempt.

          Not playing that game.

          Put up or shut up, IMHO.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s real. I watched bestality, and it was wrong. Can you agree on that point? Bestality is wrong. Watching animals have sex, and engaging is wrong. The morality is there, and you’re resisting out of a feeble-minded attempt to win. I was like you at 9 or 10, but I came out of it. You can, too. The truth is there. Let’s agree on a objective basis. Measure what’s objective, and subjective.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re just throwing assertions.

          YOUR KIND have *lost* the privilege of defining right and wrong, because when you *had* the privilege, you abused it (and still ARE abusing it wherever YOUR KIND still hold power).

          If it were otherwise, you’d be out in meatspace burning heretics or something rather than making a nuisance of yourself *here*, and we realize it.

          And WE WILL **NEVER** LET YOUR KIND HAVE THAT PRIVILEGE AGAIN…so deal with equality and compete honestly in the market of ideas. You’re going to *lose*, of course, because your ideas are outmoded and abusive, but them’s the breaks…

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, there is a right and wrong. I wouldn’t put a dollar in my trash bin for “good luck”, right? Your kind is stupid. The marketplace of ideas is a lie. Unpleasant to you is pleasant to me. The truth is right, and “objective”. You don’t love it, while it will lead to victory. The marketplace will always lead one way, and you can’t deny this right? Ideas will win, and lead to another idea.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I see you throwing out a Gish Gallop of worthless deepities and non sequiturs, in a pathetic attempt to muddy the issue.

          I *also* notice that you don’t even try to address my point, merely asserting your superstitious nonsense again as if it hadn’t been roundly debunked all throughout these comments.

          YOUR KIND have to learn that your formerly successful tactic of repeating a lie, Goebbels-style, until it’s taken for the truth isn’t going to work any more, because it only *ever* worked because YOUR KIND had the coercive power to punish those who disputed you. As mentioned before, that power is gone, so you’re reduced, like your ‘jesus’ appearing on toast and dogs’ 69assholes, to feeble, ludicrous gasps at believable claims.

        • Angel Rosas

          Once again, you deny it. Going around it and denying it. Using a “virgin” meme like 69, when there are “better” memes to use.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND still seem to think you’re mindreading, apparently based on Rom 1:20.

          I believe *that* just as little as I believe the REST of your superstition.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, I can mindread you. I can look into your hearts, with the “holy spirit” which you dare not blasphemy. Try it, and die.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, I can mindread you. I can look into your hearts, with the “holy spirit” which you dare not blasphemy. Try it, and die.

          O RLY?

          YOUR KIND, as usual, are either suffering delusions of grandeur, or just have had the privilege that allowed you to pull off such fatuous, Emperor’s New Clothes nonsense without fear of contradiction that you persist out of a bad habit you’re just going to have to break.

          For the fun of it, I’m thinking of a number, and just wrote it down.

          IF your ‘holy’ ‘spirit’ *really* gives you mindreading powers, tell me what it is.

          I have a reputation around here, unlike you, of telling the truth, and I pledge to do so now because self-serving lies are a superstitious authoritarian vice in which I seldom indulge, and almost never on-line, where the stakes are picayune.

          Oh, and

          69Fuck your ‘holy’ ‘spirit’ (assuming it were to EXIST, which I don’t).

          With the same caveats, 69fuck ‘allah’ and ‘yahweh’.

          Next?

        • Lucy

          Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Lord.

          Oh, wait. I’m still here. And yes. I said it aloud.

          You missed again.

        • Lucy

          Again, as a 69sex0repulsed asexual, I’d say some of these unpleasantnesses overlap.

          Now, if you’re talking spicy food, that’s another matter because I don’t like spicy food. But as for God, there is no evidence that he exists and sorry, circular claims (including the Bible) don’t count as evidence.

        • Lucy

          Watching animals mate isn’t wrong. If it were, animal researchers would not be observing and studying it. Mind you, that’s not my area of interest, but I did see two swans mate at the zoo once – their reaction was brief but intense. I also have seen pigeons mate, and once saw a bird called a tinamou mate at another zoo – that act was brief and businesslike with no intensity, but it turned out that one of the tinamous was cheating. The male, I believe.

          Actually performing a 69sex act with a nonhuman animal (none of which can consent since nonhuman hominids are extinct) is what’s wrong, not watching mating acts, whether you get off on those or not. And you don’t need God to tell you whether you should decide to stop watching animal acts if you feel it would lead you to try such an act with an animal – that’s a decision you have to make for yourself.

        • Lucy

          The only reason you are exposing your biggest flaw (that of swelled-headedness) is because you are titanically un-self-aware of that fact.

          And you know what, I lied on a point card* once as a kid, and got punished for that. I’m not afraid to admit that, because I was a kid and kids do silly things. And I forgive myself for that and haven’t done an equivalent thing since.

          *I assume you can grasp what a point card is, since the unintelligence you display is clearly willful and not the result of a disability.

        • Lucy

          Except it’s not only your language that’s faulty, it is your reasoning, pattern recognition, and critical thinking skills which are also faulty.

          Alex the Parrot, who had far less language ability than you (since he was a birdie, as are the parrots that survive him in Irene Pepperberg’s lab), still outperformed you in many of these important measures. Even his word for apple, “banerry” was a logical construct – he’d seen bananas, he’d seen cherries, and he reasoned that an apple can be called something that is a cross between a banana and a cherry. You have not demonstrated anything like that kind of logical reasoning. And this has nothing to do with your being Mexican – there are plenty of Hispanics/Latinos where I live, and no such people that I know of have been that 69stupid.

          Besides, if Mexicans were normally as unintelligent as you, the Mayans (who were from Mexico) wouldn’t have invented the zero. No. You are a singularly unintelligent case. In the willful sense, not the intellectually disabled sense – seriously, I’ve read a blog by an actual intellectually disabled person with low IQ, and even that person had more sense than you are demonstrating right here.

          You need to grow up, and stop having such a swelled head. It’s not helping you.

        • Lucy

          You sound just like Eragon in the second novel of the Eragon trilogy, Eldest, when the elves say they don’t worship and Eragon says (of his religion of thousands of gods) “But you must believe it”, before the wise elves tell him his argument is really bad.

          And the author of the novel (who was himself a teenager when he wrote the book) said Eragon wasn’t very bright. And those wise elves don’t always look that wise from an adult perspective, and even they had better reasoning than you.

        • Susan

          people complain when we equate religion with mental illness….

          As they should, for numerous reasons. That’s a separate issue.

          This is a sockpuppet troll who has hijacked an abandoned account.

          And everyone’s pouncing on the bait.

          It’s clogging up discussion and rewarding the troll with exactly what it wants.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I’m smelling *projection*…and it smells like chicken farm sewage (*particularly* rank, FWIW)

          YOUR KIND demand we accept your self-serving assertions without SHOWING US whatever it is you want to use to harm us.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I see you telling us to ‘research’ things, but you’re NOT posting links.

          YOUR KIND don’t get to assign labor, emotional or otherwise, to those who question your veracity.

          I can surmise that’s because you KNOW that any source you offered would be tidily, neatly, and quickly ripped to shreds.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You have GOT to be a Poe…or you’re a danger to yourself and society in general.

        • Artor

          Yeah, the CIA poured a bunch of money into researching that, and utterly failed to produce anything meaningful. Because the supernatural doesn’t actually exist, dumbass.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, they actually had a verified result. Look into it. “Remote-viewer”.

        • Lucy

          Unless that result involved a telescope or space probe, it wasn’t legit.

          And sorry, one verified result (assuming a single psychic experience manifested) would suggest nothing beyond stray brainwaves traveling from one person to another – and also one result, assuming it’s legit, means the phenomenon isn’t worth following because it cannot be controlled.

          None of that means there’s God, any more than ball lightning requires a God.

        • Susan

          I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.

          This looks like a hijacked account. If you check “Angel’s” commenting history, you’ll see that there is a single comment one year ago about gaming on “Game Informer” and now, suddenly a slew of comments here.

        • Artor

          His poor grasp of the language suggests that he’s possibly a Russian troll. I don’t believe his claim to be Mexican-American.

        • otrame

          If he’s a Russian troll, he must be a newby, just throwing out phrases from the algorithms rather than actually following them.

          But I get the feeling he’s just a random troll trying to make Hispanic people look bad. Oh, and he’s very, very young.

        • Susan

          I don’t believe his claim to be Mexican-American.

          The reason he claims to be Mexican-American is because he hijacked the account of someone with a Spanish name.

          Everyone should report, rather than respond.

          Report to Disqus in any way you can, report to PatheosDisqus in anyway you can. (Those two don’t allow for proper reporting of hijacked accounts by trolls, but find the best way you can to do so.)

          Mostly, report to Bob.

          This is a troll. Stop taking the bait.

        • Greg G.

          The second comment was to another Patheos atheist blog, then over 300 to CE, all in a day. Poor kid with no wholesome hobbies.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

          DEMONSTRATE this ‘god’….or abandon the assertion.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          YOUR KIND *lose*.

          Everything you mentioned is evidence of *itself*, and nothing more.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s evidence. Just as how evidence of a smoke stain indicates a smoker, there’s example.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          A smoke stain is evidence of SMOKE…and we’ve *seen* smoke.

          You’re trying to claim something that *exists* is evidence of something that you REFUSE to show us.

        • Angel Rosas

          A smoke stain on me would mean I have had a encounter with smoke, right? A cigarette.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re particularly dim.

          Other possibilities include a forest fire, incense, a bunsen burner, spray-on smoke, etc.

          And all of those, LIKE THE SMOKE, are *real* and can be presented to those who doubt their existence.

          Your ‘god’ STILL hasn’t been presented for evaluation (and likely *rejection*, but that’s a story for another day)

        • larry parker

          Gravity is one of the four fundamental forces, no god required.
          The world is much older than the dime. The world doesn’t work, it exists.
          You have failed so far.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it works. We have laws, and they define reality. The moral law, for example.

        • larry parker

          We have laws, and they define reality

          Yes we do and none of them require a god.
          What moral law?

        • Michael Neville

          Show us that something you call the “moral law” exists.

        • Angel Rosas

          A lot.

        • Michael Neville

          That’s meaningless. I ask again, show us that something you call the “moral law” exists.

        • Angel Rosas

          The moral law like not hitting your mom.

        • Michael Neville

          That’s just another assertion. Show us that this “moral law” exists.”

        • Angel Rosas

          Don’t fuck monkeys.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          More useless deepity.

          Why not just SHOW us this ‘god’ you’re prattling about?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I don’t care what you *claim* are the morals of this ‘god’.

          DEMONSTRATE the ‘god’, THEN we can maybe discuss any other cretinous assertions you care to throw.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That reply is POWERFULLY *useless*.

        • Angel Rosas

          How.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          If you have to ask, you’ll never understand.

          But I accuse you, in that question, of disingenuity, as evidenced by your other posts in this thread.

        • Angel Rosas

          You say that, but you don’t understand. If I have to ask, and you don’t have a answer then that’s wrong. You don’t want to accept reality. You don’t want to see it, and make a conscious decision. Choose. Think over it. It ought to be a good exercise in thinking. That’s what I did lot as a kid.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          A liar will feign lack of understanding as a tactic.

          I accuse you of such, based on your posts here.

          IF you want to demonstrate I’m incorrect, you’ve got a LOT of work to do.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, that is true. You have a lot of understanding, but it’s fake. Delusions make us understand even though it’s all in a delusion. But it’s a delusion, in the end.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND are still trying to claim mindreading powers, no doubt based on your superstitious ‘bible’s passage at Romans 1:20.

          THAT is so much superstitious 69bullshit, just like the rest of the book, excepting SOME geography and personages whose historicity has been established through trustworthy resources.

          So forget your Romans 1:20, and stop trying to ‘prove’ your ‘bible’ WITH your ‘bible’…as that’s a fallacy (Assuming the Consequent, FWIW)

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it is all true. Trying to win, and be “wicked” is not good. You’re probably thinking of the “horse” shit, and like it. Don’t try it. It’s wicked. Don’t watch it, and fap to it and like it. It’ll destroy you. The Earth is here, and you’re defying it with your acts. You’re defile.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Trying to win, and be “wicked” is not good.

          Then why do you persist in doing so, in patently condescedning, dishonorable fashion?

          If only there was a command in your ‘bible’ against oh, say, bearing false witness? That would be cool.

          But YOUR KIND have *demonstrated*, with examples as numerous as the grains of sand on a the beaches of Earth, that YOUR KIND don’t care about that…also that *this* accusation is ALSO a confession.

          You just can’t help but expose your weaknesses, can you?

        • Artor

          Seriously, keep your kink to yourself. We’re not interested in your sick fetishes.

        • Angel Rosas

          So they’re “sick” right? We can agree on that much. Morality.

        • Lucy

          As a 69sex-repulsed asexual, I kindly offer you some virtual vomit at the thought of that horse fantasy of yours.

          And I don’t need to believe in God to be grossed out by that. I just am by virtue of my orientation. Oh, and “by virtue of” is a phrase meaning “because of”, “”due to”, and some other such things, with a context that’s kinda hard to delineate.

        • Artor

          No, I think he’s really just that dumb.

        • Lucy

          From what I can tell, you still are a kid. Maybe not a child, but a kid – kid as in teenager. Mentally if not physically.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          YOUR KIND screw up yet again.

          *Reality* exists, and defines the laws that we see.

          And if you want to claim a moral ‘law’, demonstrate it with EVIDENCE.

        • Angel Rosas

          The moral exists, because you’re morally right, correct? You wouldn’t want to fuck a horse.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          DEMONSTRATE why that’s ‘morally’ wrong, rather than just an action that most people would consider disgusting.

        • Lord Backwater

          Show me the dime!

          Hey, is he talking about Discworld?

        • Lucy

          The thing is, it is impossible for the world to have been created on a dime, since dimes didn’t even exist until a few centuries ago at the earliest, and this world is billions of years old.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      Nope.

      YOUR KIND don’t get to claim that.

      DEMONSTRATE this ‘god’ if you want to use it in an argument.

      • Angel Rosas

        My kind? The rational people? Simple, look at the existence of universe. If you’re looking for modern proof, look at “remote viewers” by the CIA. If you’re going to respond like a hillbilly idiot, look for proof. Here it is. Go look for it. May God bless.

        • Lord Backwater

          If you’re looking for modern proof, look at “remote viewers” by the CIA.

          I am looking at them clairvoyantly right at this instant. One of them is on the surface of Jupiter.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Like I said, YOUR KIND don’t get to assign labor to us.

          BRING THE EVIDENCE or admit you’re full of schytttt.

        • Angel Rosas

          “YOUR KIND”? How awfully bigoted. Using specific language that Southerners typically used for blacks is unwise if you’re claiming to be not racist. My kind, is the right kind. The evidence is in the pudding. The Bible, and the apostles. If you’re claiming otherwise, debunk them.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND is an epithet that YOUR KIND has used for *centuries* to degrade anybody of whom YOUR KIND disapproved.

          I’m taking it back.

          I don’t use it based on any *innate* characteristic, because that IS improperly prejudicial.

          People who expose themselves to be 69assholes, especially authoritarian superstitious 69assholes, *earn* the epithet and deserve it without reservation.

          And your ‘bible’ isn’t *evidence*, it’s *claims*. Show the *claims* are true…THAT is your duty if you truly want to convince, rather than merely annoy, provoke, and help those wishing to leave your evil coven to do so more promptly, taking their 69butts, voting power, and wallets with them.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, that’s the truth. I’m not a Catholic. I was a Mexican American who was watching bestality, and decided to come to Christ. You would want me to come back over, right? No. Never again. The claims are right, and I’ll show you.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Not MY problem that you were indulging in what you consider a base vice.

          But YOU made the change in your life, even in your decision to embrace whatever religion you follow (I’m guessing one of the 40,0000-odd flavors of xtianity here), NOT any ‘god’…and I say that because there’s ZERO *reputable* evidence of any ‘god(s)’, yours or others.

          Also, I find it *telling* that you’re projecting your own most despised vices on those who you ‘disapprove’ of…it’s like you’re trying to convince yourself that you don’t still experience those base hungers, so WE must be just as bad. (Hint: You’re wrong…most of us have FAR too much respect for informed consent to perform such an act *in particular* on any self-aware entity that can’t give informed, *enthusiastic* consent)

        • Lucy

          The saying is specifically “the proof is in the pudding”.

          Idioms don’t typically insert synonyms, y’know.

        • Angel Rosas

          The evidence is there if you’re willing to see it. Are you willing to eat shit?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND lose *again*.

          Philip K. Dick had your measure when he said “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away” (italics & bold mine)

          The point is, you’re just ASSERTING, then getting all unpleasant when we refuse to take your word for it and demand evidence and demonstration.

        • Angel Rosas

          He’s right. Reality is there, whether you believed in it or not. So you will die. This reality is not a imagination, but “reality”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          He’s right. Reality is there, whether you believed in it or not. So you will die. This reality is not a imagination, but “reality”.

          I see a bunch of scare quotes there…and your statement leads me to assume you think that, somehow, you *won’t* die.

          I hate to be the one to break it to you, but despite the lies you’ve been fed, ALL the *evidence* shows that when the electrochemical patterned activity in your brain ceases one day, you too will be dead, as there’s ZERO evidence of a ‘soul’, despite YOUR KIND trying for *centuries* to demonstrate otherwise.

          And yeah, I’ll die. Mark Twain (paraphrased) said it best: “I didn’t exist for billions of years before I was born, and was in no way discomfited. I confidently expect to be no more bothered once I am dead once again.”

          Why do you fight so hard against what reality has demonstrated so conclusively?

        • Angel Rosas

          I never said that. I may die, but it’s up to God.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I never said that. I may die, but it’s up to God.

          Nope.

          YOUR KIND don’t get to play your ‘god’ card until you can demonstrate it exists.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, it’s real. God will decide where you go, but you pick the lane.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah, it’s real. God will decide where you go, but you pick the lane.

          Why do you persist in pushing that 69bullshit?

          SHOW ME, or admit you’re wrong and grow up.

        • Bob Jase

          So there is no free will and all is predestined?

          Then all evil is planned by your god.

    • Phil Rimmer

      You do realise that Newton spent much of his time refuting Christian claims? He knew the trinity was a con and conspired with other heretics to prove this point of post hoc fakery.

  • Doubting Thomas

    We believe that God is rational, and that he created an orderly world which mirrors His rationality.
    We believe that we are images of God.
    We believe that the world did not always exist, and won’t disappear then reappear in an endless loop of meaningless cosmic cycles.
    We believe that the world was created “good,” is sharply distinct from God Himself, and subject to us as its “stewards.”

    If only Christians understood the difference between “We believe that…” and “It’s true that…” these discussions would be so much easier.

    • Angel Rosas

      Belief comes from truth.

      • Doubting Thomas

        If only you could actually demonstrate that what you claim is true, then we might get somewhere. Right now I just see unsubstantiated assertions.

        • Angel Rosas

          Unsubstantiated assertions? It’s all real. That’s the thing. It’s like saying I’m in a club, and point to the physical existence of it. The same goes here. The thing is you can’t see outside of it and thus come with false assertions.

        • Lord Backwater

          It’s so simple! It’s like saying that I’m in Antarctica and pointing to it. Except these are blog comments, so you really can’t see what I’m pointing at, can you?

          The penguins and polar bears say hello.

        • Michael Neville

          PSST! Polar bears live in the Arctic.

        • Lord Backwater

          You know, I know. I might be willing to wager money that Angel Rosas does not know.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I hear they’re sunning themselves in 69 degree F weather at the northernmost point, more’s the pity.

          🙁

          Edit: whoops, you caught me on the polar bears…

        • Michael Neville

          So what’s your evidence that your god is anything other than a figment of your imagination? You keep making claims but you also keep failing to support those claims.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Why waste our time with deepities?

      • Lord Backwater

        Belief comes from truth.

        If that were true, then every belief anyone ever held would necessarily be true; which would make it very stupid for you to try to convince them that your beliefs were somehow better than theirs.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, that’s retarded. Is not breathing air a belief?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re exposing your juvenile mentation, and moving the goalposts at the same time.

          What you threw in, here, is a particularly egregious non sequitur, designed to confuse rather than clarify.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, you don’t want to say the truth. Is watching bestality, right? Is watching animals fuck right? Answer this.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, you don’t want to say the truth. Is watching bestality, right? Is watching animals fuck right? Answer this.

          YOUR KIND can’t order me to 69piss on your suede boots…although I might do *that* for fun and to enrage you further.

          It’s not the watching you’re bothered with, but you can’t bring yourself to say what *does* disturb you, and THAT is feeling 69sexual gratification from watching animals 69fuck.

          Herders ALL OVER the world watch their animals 69fuck, and children grow up seeing it…so they’re unlikely to be 69titillated by it, barring perhaps a first flush when puberty occurs. *Mature* people get past that by having mutual consenting relationships with other adult humans…based on your obvious distaste, you *aren’t* a mature adult and are ashamed of your urges…but that’s not OUR problem.

        • Angel Rosas

          Wow, is bestality wrong? Schedu boots. I’m a Mexican, and not a Nazi.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Wow, is bestality wrong? Schedu boots. I’m a Mexican, and not a Nazi.

          You’re dishonestly (or delusionally, take your pick) conflating animals breeding with ‘bestiality’…Freud would’ve had a *field day* with YOUR neuroses.

          Add to that the fact that you somehow extracted ’69nazi’ from my comment, and even Freud would throw up his hands.

          It’s my considered opinion, based on your posts on this thread, that you don’t need religion as much as you need counseling to expose and denature your triggers and defense mechanisms.

        • Lucy

          You seem to confuse animal mating with a word that actually means “humans having 69sex with animals who cannot consent” (which includes all animals, since no extant* species of nonhuman animal can meaningfully consent to the act with a human.

          Now, if the species were an early hominid (i.e. the Denisovans, H. erectus or H. habilis), that would be another matter – some of those had language and complex tools, and so humans having 69sex with a different species of hominid would be cross-breeding, but it wouldn’t be bestiality, since those individuals would both be capable of consent – but those species are extinct and so no such act can be performed.

          *extant is the opposite of extinct – it means the animal is still around.

        • Angel Rosas

          Is it true?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why does it matter if it’s ‘true’, if it’s *unresponsive* and an attempt to derail the conversation.

          YOUR KIND use deepities as escape attempts, and I don’t play that game.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, because it’s real. Saying it doesn’t matter is a show of insecurity. Wah.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          When it’s an attempt to derail, it’s *dishonest* (although that doesn’t seem to bother *you* any more than any *other* of YOUR KIND).

        • Michael Neville

          Breathing is an action controlled by the autonomic nervous system. No belief or other conscious thought is involved in breathing.

        • Angel Rosas

          Try to breathe, and see what happens.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Another worthless deepity.

          Science knows about how breath works…YOUR KIND seem to want to *order* people to dance for your authoritarian amusement to the victims’ debasement… and then you wonder why we resist? ANYbody trying to control a person for the *controller’s* best interest (like YOUR KIND, or, according to your book your ‘god’) is to be resisted with the full force of a person’s mind and will.

        • Angel Rosas

          Lol. You gave your mind to the enemy. How funny. Your “science”, doesn’t measure morality except when it does. Sodom and Gomorroah are not desirable places to live in. Any atheist thinker or even the “Nazis” would tell you that much. Alt-right.
          For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness
          of men, who [a ]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [b ]manifest [c ]in them, for God has shown *it* to them

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me….although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Lol. You gave your mind to the enemy.

          If it weren’t so offensive and juvenile, it would be funny watching you use nonsense like this in a futile and 69impotent ‘attack’ to defend your delusion.

          Sad, really.

        • Michael Neville

          I’m breathing right now. I’m an expert at breathing. For years I’ve never missed a day breathing. I don’t need to think about breathing.

        • Angel Rosas

          But you can think about it.

        • Michael Neville

          So?

      • abb3w

        You sound like a poker player who would draw to an inside straight.

  • Matt Brooker (Syncretocrat)

    Hypothesis: If god did not exist, then god could not do anything. If god could not do anything, god’s followers could not point to any concrete action that god has performed. In order to believe that god exists and performs actions, god’s followers would have to pick some human achievement (science, morality, mathematics etc), snip it off from the long, painstaking history of human development and claim that achievement for their god. Said claim would always be sufficiently abstract to be unfalsifiable. The need to defend a non-existent god would make believers into magpies.
    Plausible?

  • Lex Lata

    At best, these five “characteristics” are aspects of certain (and hardly universal) lines of Christian thought that can be reconciled with science. Neither individually nor taken together do they demonstrate that “Science Will Die” without belief in God.

    1. The notion that the universe has a certain level of order and predictability arises from pragmatic experience and study. Removing God from the analysis doesn’t have any effect. How do these guys think it works? “As long as there’s a God in charge of things, the addition of sufficient oxygen and liquid fuel to the chamber will result in combustion. But if not, who knows? We could get cheeseburgers or a portal to the Talking Squirrel Dimension. All bets are off.” Please.

    2. “Man mirrors God” is just a deepity, and of course the exercise of reason is hardly unique to Christendom, to put it mildly. Even our modern English vocabulary of reason is non-Christian in origin: the Greeks gave us “logic,” the Romans gave us “rationality” and “science,” etc.

    3. Again, plenty of non-Christian traditions have a linear, rather than cyclical, conception of time. And in any event, we’re not entirely certain how time flows on the other side of the Big Bang; something non-linear could in fact be the better explanation, if we were able to zoom out far enough.

    4. There’s nothing uniquely Christian about the idea of caring for the natural resources on which a decent quality of life depends. What is unique to Christianity–at least certain culturally conservative strains in the US–is the belief that we don’t need to engage in prudent environmental regulation because God will just fix things for us, or because Jesus will be back any day now, so why bother?

    5. The last characteristic isn’t even about science; it’s a highly selective and idealized statement about social progress. And again, the notion that we can and should make things better for each other and our offspring is hardly unique to Christians.

    Certainly devout Christians can do–and many have done–good science. But the proposition that science requires Christian belief is unfounded.

    • Angel Rosas

      >Issac Newton
      If God wasn’t around, there would be no order for us. It would be chaotic at least. Jesus will come and reign for a thousand years as a show of effective rule far better than any human rule. However, things must come to pass before it happens. Read the Bible for info.

      • Doubting Thomas

        If only Christians understood the difference between “We believe
        that…” and “It’s true that…” these discussions would be so much
        easier.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        I call monkeyshines.

        *DEMONSTRATE* this ‘god’ of yours before you attempt to conjure your fell and evil magicks with it.

        • Angel Rosas

          Simple, God exists. We have sin, and you too.

        • Lord Backwater

          Simple, God exists.

          Is it that simple? This is just as simple: God does not exist. QED.

        • Michael Neville

          Since gods (remember there’s more gods than the sadistic thug you fancy) are imaginary, they can’t be sinned against.

          I go with the Granny Weatherwax definition of sin: “And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself.” –Terry Pratchett Carpe Jugulum

        • LastManOnEarth

          I call bullshit.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Simple, God exists. We have sin, and you too.

          So you say…why should any rational adult believe your superstitious nonsense?

          You’re just throwing nonsense out, here, and expecting compliance and respect.

          Not happening.

        • Angel Rosas

          Because it’s real. Expecting compliance from “lunatics” is a far-stretch, but it’s a simple change of mind. I can do it, and you too.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Because it’s real. Expecting compliance from “lunatics” is a far-stretch, but it’s a simple change of mind. I can do it, and you too.

          Uh, that’s the *point*…IF it was real, you could SHOW it to us.

          You, and YOUR KIND, have *repeatedly* failed to SHOW us for roughly 2 millennia now. What you *claim* as evidence for your ‘god’ is just evidence of the Universe, and we don’t need your ‘god’ to explain anything, so why add it in?

          And while ideas can *sometimes* be changed, sometimes ideas have so much emotion packed into them that the psyche will cling to them despite lack of evidence, or will LIE to attribute ‘evidence’ (of reality merely being itself) to the ‘god’ superstition to defend said delusion.

      • Lord Backwater

        If God wasn’t around, there would be no order for us. It would be chaotic at least.

        Evidence needed.

        • abb3w

          Heck, even a coherent philosophical line of reasoning needed.

      • LastManOnEarth

        Actually, no.

        • Angel Rosas

          You don’t define reality.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Which is what you’re doing, kkkuntsicle69. Provide evidence for your God claims, or fuck69 off and die. “Because my holy book/religious beliefs/delusions say so” isn’t a valid reason. We prefer evidence, not religious nonsense. Put up or shut up, motherfucker69. The burden of proof is on theists to back up their claims.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You don’t define reality.

          Neither do you, nor does YOUR KIND…and YOUR KIND seem to be having a hard time getting over losing the privilege of defining ‘reality’ by threats and punitive measures…which gives me a healthy dose of schadenfreude.

        • Angel Rosas

          Reality is there. Being a smartass is not. Reality is real, with the pudding in the details.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Reality IS, and we can experience it, and the experience of most people to phyisical stimuli is either similar or identical, regardless of whether the person *believes* in the reality of the stimulus.

          That’s where your ‘god’ falls down…YOUR KIND *claim* to experience it, but can’t *show* it to those who don’t believe. That is one of the attributes of fiction, and so you have to do better than repeatedly assert your superstitious, self-serving lies.

          What you’re saying is equivalent to “What are you going to believe?!? Me or your lying eyes?!?”

          I’ll believe my eyes, and my ears, and my other senses, FAR more than I’ll believe self-aggrandizing, authoritarian assertions from somebody who has a vested interest in my falling prey to your superstition.

        • Angel Rosas

          We can show, but you are not willing to believe. It’s in the supernatural, and you are not that. Solomon was supernatural.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          We can show, but you are not willing to believe. It’s in the supernatural, and you are not that. Solomon was supernatural.

          Uh, NO.

          IF you ‘can’ show, YOUR KIND have done a 69piss-poor job for 2 millennia now.

          YOUR KIND are admitting that only those who have already fallen to your superstition perceive these ‘effects’…which is an admission of a delusion of false agency.,

          And, *really*??!! ‘Solomon was supernatural’??!! That’s just *pathetic*…it’s like you’re phoning it in rather than actually trying to convince.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s there. But you are willing to believe. Because you aren’t willing to obey.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, it’s there. But you are willing to believe. Because you aren’t willing to obey.

          YOUR KIND *still* aren’t mindreaders, Rom 1:20 is 69bullshit, and you’re obviously (if pathetically) attempting to go on offense because, deep down, you KNOW it’s not defensible nor real, and your realization of that and the possible consequences fuel your desperation to externalize it.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Wow! where were you when I was selling advertising? You are arguably the most gullible person I have ever encountered.

        • Michael Neville

          Like many believers, you think that belief is a purposeful action. We cannot chose to believe or not believe. I don’t believe in any gods, not just the immoral thug you’re in love with but any gods, because I don’t see any evidence that any of them exist. If you or any other godbotherer can show reasonable evidence for the existence of gods then I’ll believe in their existence. Incidentally, believing in a god or gods does not mean I’d worship them. I certainly wouldn’t worship the sadistic sociopath that you like.

        • Angel Rosas

          Incidentally, you believe in satan. Choose who to believe in, and that’s where you have faith in. Reality does go on, and there’s a end. You don’t worship “anyone”, but you do follow someone.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND are *not* mind readers, and Rom 1:20 is 69bullshit, a passage SHOWN to be a later addition to the bible to cover the blatant hole in xtianity.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s the truth. I know it from deep in my heart, that Christ is real and God. Christian. Romans 1:21 continues off on 1:20. Have you thought Romans 1:20 wasn’t included in some manuscripts for a agenda? The “common manuscripts” are actually not common.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Additions need not come at the end of a thing, they can be *inserted* into an existing text.

          And until you can SHOW it, it’s just so much authoritarian 69bullshit.

          YOUR KIND want to *control*, and we refuse to let you. We ALSO refuse to be gaslit into the idea that because we won’t knuckle under that there’s something wrong with US…what’s wrong is with YOUR KIND and your mad 69lust for undeserved power.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it clearly comes off the end of the last sentence. That’s the thing. You atheists refuse to accept reality. Subscribing to your own version of it. Read the text, and acknowledge it comes from the last sentence. Romans 1:18 has a period, and 1:20 continues from comma in 1:19. What are the manuscripts without it? They’re structurally similar.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I feel sorry for your writing teacher if you don’t realize that an insertion can be made that will fit into the text, despite not belonging there, without being blatantly obvious.

          I *would* enjoy flunking you on persuasive rhetoric, though…you’re miserably bad at it, and appear to be uninterested in doing better.

        • Angel Rosas

          It clearly goes off the last sentence. You don’t have a proof, besides a theory you apparently came up with.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Maybe your heart shouldn’t be the organ you use to sort fact from fiction. Maybe you should try using your brain next time.

          God is real because the bible says god is real. The bible is true because the people writing it were inspired by the words of god.

          Nope, no circular reasoning there.

        • Michael Neville

          Satan is as fictitious as your Jesus. You know what’s weirder than having an imaginary friend? Having an imaginary enemy.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, he’s real. Using you as a pawn. Amazing.

        • Michael Neville

          So what’s your evidence that Satan exists? Is it as non-existent as your evidence that the nasty brute you pretend is a god is real?

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Is It? If so, then I’m sure It won’t mind making a small appearance to answer some questions? I think it’s pretty obvious to everyone here that you are a poor substitute at telling us what’s on your god’s mind. And that bible book you keep referencing, is about as useless as breasts on a boar. You would have thought a book narrated by a god would have had some practical application and awesome wisdom. Instead, it’s full of outright falsehoods, quaint homilies and gruesome stories. Why anyone still takes it seriously is truly baffling.

        • Artor

          Not even Satanists believe in Satan.

        • Angel Rosas

          They do, unconsciously.

        • Rudy R

          How did this Satan character come into existence?

        • Artor

          Reality is what doesn’t change depending on what you believe.

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s why. Reality doesn’t change. It will happen, and go on.

        • Lucy

          Except if smartasses weren’t real, none of us would be having this conversation.

          And you got the idiom wrong. It’s “the proof is in the pudding”. Unless you mean “the devil is in the details”.

        • LastManOnEarth

          Neither do you, skippy.

        • Angel Rosas

          What?

      • DeadBabyJoke

        Citation needed. You claim that there would be no order without God, but you cannot, and will not, provide evidence for those claims. You just make a bunch of baseless, fact-free assertions. Also, Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, didn’t fulfill the prophecies, didn’t resurrect, and EXPLICITLY & SPECIFICALLY stated that he’d be back during the lifetime of his then-current, living followers, not some random time in the future. You tell us to read the Bible, but you more than likely haven’t bothered to read it.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, the Jesus of Nazereth. Will I refer to tom of England or America? Who’s Jesus?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Your ‘jesus’ of ‘nazareth’ is just a character in a book to us…a particularly BAD book, self-contradictory and full of authoritarian abuse and denial of personal agency and consent.

          So why should *we* care about it at all?

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah. You can’t say it. Who is Jesus?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t force no-win scenaria on us, nor make superstitious claims and then crow no matter which fork we take.

          The only magic words have is in *convincing*, and you’re a 69piss-poor example of both your supposed

          – Great Command, and
          – Great Commission,

          because by your rudeness and unwillingness to *demonstrate* your claims, you’re driving people AWAY from falling for your superstition.

          By YOUR KIND’s rules and your superstitious ‘bible’, you’re setting yourself up to be set to the left side of the throne, per your myth, on the ‘last day’.

          IF you really believed this nonsense, you’d be coming in with either ironclad *evidence*, or at least honeyed words to *persuade*.

          YOUR KIND, however, have gotten too used to being able to use your unearned, unDESERVED privilege to browbeat your victims. YOUR KIND has *lost* that power…and you still can’t change your ways, dooming yourselves, BY YOUR OWN BOOK, to the lake of hellfire for pushing ‘souls’ *away* from your superstition.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, I win. You obey the truth even if unknowingly. All is creation, and will have a purpose. You go to hell, and that’s your choice. Eternal seperation. That’s what hell is. You have morality.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          If a religion requires a threat for non-belief, it is not a religion, it is a cult.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah, I win. You obey the truth even if unknowingly.

          I see I hit a nerve, there…your assertion that your ‘magic’ controls us despite ourselves is as telling a defense mechanism as any I’ve seen out of you yet.

          It also shows that YOUR KIND hate and fear the concept of ‘consent’, because it means that you, too, could be judged unworthy by your superstitious monster and condemned…and what’s worse, YOUR KIND can *never* be sure you’re safe, due to the capricious nature of your organization, which you believe represents your ‘god’.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, you’re controlled. You are right in free-will, but the difference here is I choose to have Jesus as my Lord. You choose not to, and hence the lake of fire. It’s eternal seperation. You thinking you hit a nerve is a feeling from the enemy. I have felt that before. It’s a delusion. The truth will always prevail out in the end. It’s the law, after all. It’s creation, right? We’re created, in this “game”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, you’re controlled.

          “I’m rubber, you’re glue” does *not* work around here.

          I can simply disbelieve SINCE, despite YOUR KIND’s claim you ‘can’ show, YOUR KIND repeatedly either fails to or refuses to attempt to *show*, realizing that you’re lying to us to defend your delusion.

        • Angel Rosas

          The reason why you disbelieve, is because of the spirits around you. It’s sad. You make the choice not to believe though so it’s up to you.

        • Otto

          The reason why you disbelieve, is because of the spirits around you.

          It’s your story so you can make the reason for disbelief whatever you want.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          The reason why you disbelieve, is because of the spirits around you. It’s sad. You make the choice not to believe though so it’s up to you.

          The reason I disbelieve is because you, and YOUR KIND, refuse to show.

          And that’s a nasty attempt at condescension, of a piece with the rest of your reprehensible ideas and behavior.

        • Angel Rosas

          It’s true. They’re laughing, and using you. You’re not smart, as you think.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Oh come ON…what are you, 11 years old?

          That is as *pathetic* as your supposed ‘god’.

          Do better.

        • Angel Rosas

          Can’t say it. Cool.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me…although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong.

        • Angel Rosas

          Say it. You’re not a Christian, right? Don’t have fear of saying the xitan name. That is proof in of itself. Supernatural.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me…although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong.

        • Artor

          No, it’s just that we stopped playing those stupid games in 2nd grade, but you’re still stuck there. Seriously dude, Grow the fukc up and act like a goddam adult!

        • Angel Rosas

          Grow the fuk up and act like a adult? How?

        • Artor

          No, it’s the complete lack of spirits around us that leads us to believe it’s all nonsense. If there were spirits, we’d have to admit there’s something there. But there aren’t. Just stupid people.

        • Angel Rosas

          It’s not true. There are spirits around us. Even Nordic mythology had that. The natural man can’t discern the supernatural. It’s a lie.

        • Or maybe you’ll meet Ereshkigal in Irkalla or Hades and Persephone in Hades. There’s a lot more of afterlives.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, but they’re false. Perhaps you’ll meet them, in a delusion.

        • Of course, of course. And you may either become construction material for the Wall of the Faithless or be thrown in 69Hell for following the wrong version of Christianity.

          Be careful what you wish for knowing your sourcebook is not a contract, nor claim sheets being readily available in the afterlife. I will also pray Selûne, the Moonmaiden, for you.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          This is irrelevant nonsense and has nothing to do with my post.

      • Artor

        You just insist on poking your nose into conversations you are incapable of understanding, don’t you. Are you ever embarrassed by your ignorance? Do you notice when people are laughing at you? Because everyone here is doing that. I’m just shaking my head that you can deliberately throw whatever intelligence you might have had in the trash and taken a big stinky dump on it. Why would you do that?

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, because it’s true. You profess to be intelligent, but you’re not. You want reality? Deny lies and accept the truth. Diogenes.

        • Artor

          You are too dumb to have any sort of conversation with.. There are rocks that are smarter and better informed than you. I’m done here. Go show other people how dense you are, you’ve convinced me already.

  • JustAnotherAtheist2

    Therefore the world’s rational structure is transparent to the light of our own God-given reason, such that we can gradually come to know it better than our ancestors did.

    Newsflash, everyone has to presume that reality is, on some level, understandable. That the theist here also presumes god and presumes that god can justify the first presumption doesn’t diminish its “presumptiveness”. Reality is no closer, all he’s added are a few unnecessary presumptions.

  • Cozmo the Magician

    Riiigh… Gawd made the laws of the universe all logical and neat and tidy just so that HE COULD BREAK THEM whenever he dookin pleased. Parting of waters… Raising of Dead. Frogs falling from the sky. Whole cities explode for no reason. Woman turned into SALT. etc etc etc.. Yup, thats the logical world god made, one where ANYTHING can happen at any time if god wants it to.

    Dookin designers and their cheat codes mess up everybody’s fun.

    • Michael Neville

      The game’s horrible for everyone else when the DM is also an occasional, cheating player.

      • Angel Rosas

        You don’t want to admit your shortcomings and place the blame on someone else.

        • Michael Neville

          I admit that I’m human and therefore not perfect. I know that I have only myself to blame for my many mistakes. So your attempted sneer fails. Better luck next time.

        • Angel Rosas

          What’s simple is there. Saying the air does not exist is a fallacy. The winds are real.

        • Michael Neville

          Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

        • Lord Backwater

          Too much whiskey makes the tango and foxtrot very difficult.

        • Michael Neville

          Roger that.

        • Artor

          I hear it makes the trots pretty easy though. A little too easy sometimes.

        • Susan

          Saying the air does not exist is a fallacy.

          1) No one said the air does not exist. Nice evasion from supporting your claim.

          2) Claiming that the air does not exist is not a fallacy. No problem though, ’cause no one did so.

          The winds are real.

          Yes.

          But that’s not what you claimed.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not sadistic abuser, but a God of love and a consuming fire. He’s a just God with love. Your parents did care and love for you. You wouldn’t want to hurt them.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          No one said things have to be visible to be demonstrable. Amusingly, that is the fallacy you are complaining about, and it is you who is using it.

        • Angel Rosas

          Say “Jesus is Lord”, and that’s the proof. It has to be Jesus of Nazereth.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Proof of what? What are you talking about? Do you now acknowledge it was you who was engaging in the “wind” fallacy?

        • Angel Rosas

          Proof of the holy spirit. You have the antiChrist spirit in you. Only with the “holy spirit” are you able to say that. Atheists can’t say it.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          I just did. What precise, demonstrable effect am I supposed to experience? What tool is used to take the measurements?

        • Angel Rosas

          Jesus of Nazereth? You’re not lying, right? I can say it, and turn apostacy. Nice.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Huh? “Jesus of Nazereth” is an effect?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Jesus of Nazereth? You’re not lying, right? I can say it, and turn apostacy. Nice.

          I figured this was the ‘gotcha’ you had in mind….either we refuse, and you claim that your assertion of our inability is ‘true’, or we *do*, and you claim to have performed your pathetic ‘magic’ on us.

          Here’s a little hint, in video form: (the ‘me’ is the entire skeptic community)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GquWyfVCjdE

        • Angel Rosas

          Well, then you turned away. That’s simple. I can do the same.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Well, then you turned away. That’s simple. I can do the same.

          More non sequiturs, and not even deepities this time.

          Although your petulant attempt to invoke your superstition to create a soi-disant ‘gotcha’, then metaphorically stomping your feet when we refuse to fall for it, is particularly childish.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s true. “Jesus is Lord”, have you said it?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I’m not falling for your little trick.

          Deal with it.

          again, if your ‘god’ is so powerful, why not pray to it to FORCE me to say it?

          Because you KNOW that it, just being part of your delusion, has no power outside the minds of your superstitious cohort.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Nope, it’s true.”
          No, that’s a BLATANTLY FALSE lie, unless you can prove otherwise.

          ‘”Jesus is Lord”, have you said it?”
          Why would we? Jesus, IF he existed, was just a man, not the Messiah or the Son of God. A God, by the way, that can’t be shown to exist.

        • Ignorant Amos

          “Voldemort is Lord”..say it, say it, fucking say it!

          Have you said it?

          Are you afraid to say it?

          Are you such a dopey fuckwit that you think utter the words make them true?

          It’s in his name…he’s called Lord Voldemort.

          I’ve seen him on the telly. He’s real.

          He’s even got his own Twitter account.

          https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_354,w_630,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1493060849/articles/2011/07/13/harry-potter-twitter-meme-lord-voldemort-tweets-farewell/fake-voldemort-twitter_w5npck

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Another incoherent non sequitur and pathetic attempt to dodge the burden of proof.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Incoherent non sequitur.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Proof of the holy spirit. You have the antiChrist spirit in you. Only with the “holy spirit” are you able to say that. Atheists can’t say it.

          YOUR KIND don’t get the privilege of defining ‘reality’ any more.

          And YOUR KIND, equally, can’t demand *gotcha* actions from us with a goal of being able to claim we’re ‘wrong’ in some fashion no matter what choice we make.

          You’d have to be particularly dim to continue trying gambits that are no longer effective.

        • Artor

          We can say it, but it’s stupid, so we don’t. I know you get off on being ignorant, but that’s not our fetish. Stop trying to masturbate with our hands.

        • Angel Rosas

          Fetishes are abnormal.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          That’s just your dumbass69 opinion. Considering that you’re a fucking69 liar, your opinion isn’t wanted or needed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Proof of the holy spirit.”
          Except that it isn’t, it’s completely subjective. That makes it useless.

          “You have the antiChrist spirit in you.”
          1. There’s no such thing as an “antichrist spirit.”
          2. This is a excuse that Christards use to dismiss arguments, logic, inconvenient parts of the Bible, and evidence that contradicts your religious garbage.

          “Only with the “holy spirit” are you able to say that.”
          Prove that the holy spirit exists, then we’ll start taking you seriously.

          “Atheists can’t say it.”
          What’s the point in spouting useless religious mumbo-jumbo which doesn’t do anything?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Say “Jesus is Lord”, and that’s the proof.

          Nope.

          That’s the *claim*.

          Now DEMONSTRATE it.

        • Angel Rosas

          Say it, “Jesus is Lord”. Only with the Holy Spirit, can you say it. Jesus of Nazereth. If you turn away, that’s on you.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Say it, “Jesus is Lord”. Only with the Holy Spirit, can you say it. Jesus of Nazereth. If you turn away, that’s on you.

          Oh, c’mon…you’re trying to set me up for a ‘have you stopped 69beating your wife yet’ moment, and I’m not falling for it.

          If your supposed ‘god’, ‘jesus’, and ‘holy spirit’ are so all powerful, why don’t you *pray* to them to FORCE me to say it? To ‘infill’ me, roofying me into belief despite my opposition and refusal to consent?

          I’ll tell you why, even if you won’t admit it to yourself: because you KNOW it’s not real, and all YOUR KIND have are cheap tricks and attempts to pervert strong emotion to enslave all you can to your authoritarian superstition.

        • Angel Rosas

          You can’t say it, because of the anti Christ spirit. Amazing. “Jesus is Lord”, is the truth. God honors your free will. You can say it or not. Shouldn’t you say it as a proof? Jesus of Nazereth. At the very least, you’ll experience a change.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me…although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong.

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s why you would not say it. “Christians” are good people, even though we are bad people. God honors free will. The Lord rebuke thee.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me…although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong…

        • Lucy

          Oh really? Then why did I not only post that parrot video, but say that exact phrase in front of my computer screen several times just now? Oh, and in case you are wondering, saying “Jesus is Lord” multiple times in a row (whether or not you flap your hands, as I did that time) kind of sounds like the cadence of saying “pieces of eight” many times over. Don’t get that reference? “Pieces of eight” is a thing pirate parrots say (I believe the parrot in Treasure Island says that, though I could be wrong). I even started by just saying it, and then said it in the way a parrot would say “Pieces of eight”. It has the exact same cadence. Exactly.

          And guess what? Saying “Jesus is Lord”, with fake prayer hands and a false simpering tone, and after regular repetition followed by the “pieces of eight” parody involving saying “jesus is lord” in parrot tone, didn’t do a blessed thing to convince me that God is real.

          Sorry. Your shot missed again.

        • Lucy

          Sorry, unless the word you’re referring to is “Elbereth” and the creatures you are talking to are orcs, that argument doesn’t fly.

          Oh, and a parrot can say Christian words too.

          Like this praying parrot who says the words and, from the birdy gestures he makes, clearly has zero understanding of how prayers are actually supposed to go or work (he seems to think prayers are like a mating dance or something, or some other sweet solicitation, and clearly has no clue what “sacred” means in any capacity):

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcPl_VVDAK8

          If a parrot can say words like that, they can say “Jesus is Lord’ if fed that phrase, which means anyone can say it.

        • Angel Rosas

          Of course animals can say it, but can you? Animals were in the garden of Eden, and know who is above them. Do you?

        • Lucy

          Yes, I know who is above me. My neighbor Eugene, who lives on the floor above mine in my apartment building. And the sky, and the stars (though, given that the Earth is round, half the sky is also beneath my feet and half the stars also are – it’s a consequence of living in a round world).

          Who has power over someone is a different question. For me, that includes various government officials (including one I dearly want voted out or forced out by term limits) and whoever might help start a career.

        • Lucy

          You have an amazing capacity to ignore the fact that I did say those exact words. And did not drop dead. Because words don’t make you drop dead.

        • “Jesus is Lord.”

          Ooooh, whoops! This polytheist said it out loud and still doesn’t believe you.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Read THIS but only if you are interested in truth.

        • Angel Rosas

          Tactius on Christ mentions Jesus Christ, with Pontius Pilate having been found to have existed with his coin being found. Josepheus being a Christian is not a problem. Obviously he would be a Christian if Jesus was the Messiah. Atheism relies on God not being real, and believing that. Is atheism bias? There is also Paul, and the apostles with Peter being recorded to have died.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          You couldn’t have read that chapter in the time allotted. Even if you had, the rest of the link quoted completely refutes the existence of a Jesus Christ. Where there might have been an itinerant preacher during that period in history, the mythical Jesus Christ that allegedly performed miracles is a literary fabrication from the same kind of con artists as those who created the religions of Scientology and Mormonism. The evidence is irrefutable, your religion is a hoax and you have been manipulated by the same kind of people who have much to gain from your belief.

          Further, there is literally no empirical evidence of a supernatural. If you have such empirical evidence, don’t tell us, submit it to the Nobel Committee and collect your prize.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not at all true. I already refuted it. Whatever icons and symbols, are mythology with the apostles having Jesus as the sign of the Son of Man. Tactius, Josephus, and Paul all knew of “Christos”. It’s not a hoax. You would need to debunk Paul. For the times in the seasons, that’s simple astrology. Joseph Smith genuinely believed in God, and was decieved. Why would he waste his money for “God” and get killed for it? Especially when he went to a unknown town and almost went up homeless or broke. What a shame for the “con-artist”. Same for false prophets. Josephus believed he was the Christus, and he was. It’s simple belief. He did see.the Son of Man. Can you do that? Just believe for a sec , and see what happens to your mindset. You’ll be surprised.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          I am not as easily manipulated as you.

          I am a skeptic and I require empirical evidence for claims.
          You believe in faith over evidence.
          I have seen the benefits of evidence-based thinking.
          You still believe in miracles.

          It’s time to put aside such childish things as supernatural super-beings. The survival of mankind depends on it. We have the intelligence and the tools to make this spinning rock in a very inhospitable universe a place of peace, prosperity and comfort. Religion and religious belief is antithetical towards achieving that goal.

          Are you willing to be part of the solution or are you going to remain a slave to imaginary super beings? You subordinate your humanity to follow silly rules in a futile effort to please an imaginary entity in a dogmatic hope that it will grant you blissful immortality. It’s time to take responsibility for your own humanity.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, you’re manipulated. I have taken responsibility. Otherwise, I would be involved in debauchery in doing the same thing over and over again. We’re cattle, but we have choice.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah, you’re manipulated. I have taken responsibility.

          Your first sentence is projection.

          Your second sentence is a lie, IF you take your responsibilities seriously…you’re pushing ‘souls’ away to your ‘hell’ by FAILING in both your ‘great command’ and ‘great commission’…what’s funnier is that you dont’ seem to *care*. Are you Calvinist or something…or merely as arrogant as only a t(w)eenaged boy can be, in compensating for the uncertainty and changes that age brings on?

        • Angel Rosas

          No, I was thinking like you before in the past but grew up out of it. Like, the teenage years. It’s a maturity process. My “urges” are not entirely my own.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          And yet I do not engage in debauchery. Explain that.

        • Michael Neville

          As I’ve told you before, Tactitus reported on Christian beliefs and Josephus’ Testamonium Flavianum was a forgery.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          My, what delusions of grandeur you have, little one.

          Oh, and we aren’t laughing WITH you, but AT you 😉

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s bad. Laughing at the only sane person. Crazy.

        • So you believe you’re the only sane person in the world? That’s really crazy.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You’re a delusional jackoff69 who talks to invisible people in the sky. In what reality can that be considered “sane?”

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Just believe for a sec , and see what happens to your mindset. You’ll be surprised.

          YOUR KIND have no right to request, much less compel.

          But I *will* make you a deal…IF you’re willing to commit the unforgivable ‘sin’ and deny your ‘holy spirit’, I’ll laugh delightedly at the anguish and terror it’ll invoke in your delusion-damaged psyche.

          Belief ISN’T a choice, it’s just a factor in a person’s mind.

          I could no more believe in your ‘god’ than I could believe that I could levitate without mechanical assistance, or believe that I could breathe water.

          And trying to ‘dare’ us into your pathetic little game is unlikely to work. Leaving religion generally involves becoming hardened to the disapproval of those still enslaved to the delusion, so we’ve learned to live, and in many cases *embrace*, YOUR KIND’s disapproval with avuncular bemusement.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, you want me to sin and go to hell. No.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, we don’t, because we don’t think that hell or sin exists.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          So what?

          ONE part of a claim being true doesn’t say ANYthing about the truth of any other parts of that claim.

          And *reputable* historical scholars have debunked ALL the supposed ‘contemporary’ references outside the xtian bible. IF you were honest, you’d admit to that….but honesty doesn’t appear to be an attribute you practice.

        • Michael Neville

          Tacitus was reporting what Christians told him about their beliefs. Josephus was a Jew and the Testamonium Flavianum is a 4th Century forgery by a Christian apologist called Eusebius. There’s all sorts of myths and legends about how the apostles died. Bartholomew the Apostle died in Syria and in Armenia and in Spain and Britain. The guy spent the last years of his life going somewhere and dying and then going somewhere else and dying there and then visiting some place a long distance from wherever else he’d died and then dying all over again.

          Don’t try to bullshit69 us, we know the history better than you do.

        • Angel Rosas

          Tactius was reporting what he learned about Christians, and verified the existence of Pontius Pilate. He was a Roman scholar who spent menticulous detail on various religions. You can’t deny this. A forgery? How? He was legit. What exactly is this “69bullshit”?

        • Michael Neville

          King’s Cross Station in London exists, that doesn’t mean that Harry Potter took trains from there to Hogwarts.

          The point about the forgery had nothing to do with Tacitus. It referred to Josephus’ Testamonium Flavianum. You need to do a whole lot more studying about the historiography of Jesus before you can argue the subject with us.

          Boy, and I’m sure you are just a boy, you’re way out of your league on this blog. You’ve got to learn much more about the subjects you’re trying to argue with us before you’ll even had a prayer of surviving here.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Many who accept the authenticity of this section of the “Annals” believe that the sentence which declares that Christ was punished in the reign of Pontius Pilate. Whatever may be said of the remainder of this passage, this sentence bears the unmistakable stamp of Christian forgery. It interrupts the narrative; it disconnects two closely related statements. Eliminate this sentence, and there is no break in the narrative. In all the Roman records there was to be found no evidence that Christ was put to death by Pontius Pilate. This sentence, if genuine, is the most important evidence in Pagan literature. That it existed in the works of the greatest and best known of Roman historians, and was ignored or overlooked by Christian apologists for 1,360 years, no intelligent critic can believe. Tacitus did not write this sentence.

        • I’ll bet you’ve never read Tacitus’ own words on the subject (you’d have to be able to read classical Latin to do that). I have. He was reporting secondhand information.

        • Greg G.

          AR thinks Tacitus went through 80 year old scrolls from Judea to find out that Pilate had somebody named Jesus crucified, which was the sixth most common name in the region.

        • Ignorant Amos

          You need to learn about this stuff a bit more before pitching up on a site where the intellect and knowledge of your interlocutor far outstrips anything you even remotely think you know.

          https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tacitus

        • Artor

          Damn, you are really bad at this. This is grade-school-level apologetics, and you are failing at it hard! It’s hilarious to me that the people who try the hardest to defend Xianity consistently show it to be entirely bullschit.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s real. Even Nordics had “laws” supposedly before. It’s all true yet you throw it out for the mere wisdom of men.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Prove it, you fugly testicular lump.

        • Ignorant Amos

          You are just too stupid for words.

        • Artor

          I hope that’s a link to the Principia Discordia.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Nice!

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it.

        • Ignorant Amos

          I went to bookmark it too…only to find out it’s already bookmarked. My marlies are away with it. I must have a spring clean of my bookmarks, or at least an update and reorganisation.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I’ve done that quite a few times myself. Sometimes I forget what I have in my bookmarks/favorites.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, that’s a subjective opinion open to interpretation, making it worthless as evidence.I also have to note you wouldn’t accept other religious claims using the same logic, so why should we do the same for Christianity? What makes Christianity SO special that we should apply double standards? Because you believe in it? Sorry, that’s not good enough.

        • Angel Rosas

          Because it’s true. There are no “double standards” but the one standard. It all goes together.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, it’s NOT true, cumrag69. And yes, there ARE double standards. You wouldn’t accept this logic or argument from Non-Christians, so why should we accept these claims from Christians? This is nothing more than special pleading. You’re just saying that it’s different with Christianity “because reasons!” Christards might accept such an argument, but we don’t. You have to justify these claims with arguments and logic, which you have yet to do.

        • Clancy

          That doesn’t make any sense. I’ve attended church most Sundays for 25 years. I say all the prayers, I sing all the hymns, I listen to all the sermons. Not one word of all of that has changed my lack of belief in Christianity, any more than watching “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” every week will result in my believing in Santa Claus.

        • fuzzykat

          What? You don’t believe in Santa? HERETIC! 😉

        • Angel Rosas

          It is time to believe in Jesus.

        • fuzzykat
        • DeadBabyJoke

          Nope. Until you can back up your assertions, we won’t accept your worthless religious nonsense.

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s because you don’t have any real faith. Say, “Jesus is Lord”.

        • Clancy

          No. Already said that today. Do you believe in Santa Claus?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Of course we don’t, we’re atheists on an atheist website. Do you know “atheism” means, shit69-for-brains? And why should we say “Jesus is Lord,” when there’s nothing to support that claim?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          That’s entirely subjective and open to interpretation, making it worthless as evidence.

        • Angel Rosas

          You didn’t show the world. All you want is in front of you. The evidence is there, in front of you. It’s right there.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Look around you” is NOT an argument or evidence. You have to show that your God exists and created the universe. Which you have yet to do.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Not sadistic abuser”
          Yes, He is. Have you read the fucking69 Bible?
          He murdered everyone on the planet because humanity wasn’t “perfect,” even though He’s the one responsible for that in the first place. Punishing all of humanity for your own incompetence is what a abusive sadist would do.

          ” but a God of love and a consuming fire.” Except God is NOT love. If that were true, God wouldn’t have punished humanity for His fuck69 up, nor would He punish people for not worshipping Him (both because He did a shitty69 job at revealing Himself to mankind, and because he already knew who was and wasn’t going to believe/worship Him).

          “He’s a just God with love”
          Sure, if you ignore the fact that He condones pedophilia69, child rape69, child marriage, incest69, slavery, sexual69 slavery, murder, mass murder, genocide, and infanticide. And, of course, how He decided to murder everything on the planet because He was throwing a hissy fit. Your God, if He exists, is not a God of love, bit of murder and hatred.

          “Your parents did care and love for you.”
          Not the same thing. First, my parents exists, your God doesn’t. Second, parents don’t severely punish their children for eternity for failing to live up to impossibly high standards that very few, if any, humans can achieve. Third, parents aren’t claimed to be omniscient and omnipotent, nor do parents eternally punish their children for being EXACTLY how they were created, unlike your God.

          “You wouldn’t want to hurt them.”
          You can’t hurt something that doesn’t exist. Unlike my parents, there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence that your God exists or created anything.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, he would have to punish you. He’s a god of love and justice. Your father would punish if he was loving.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          My father wouldn’t have punished me forever for a finite amount of trouble. Nor did my father have foresight which allowed him to know everything that I was going to do before I did it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Not sadistic abuser, but a God of love and a consuming fire.

          ^^^^LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I PRESENT TO YOU: THE ONE-STEP OWN GOAL!!!!!!

        • Angel Rosas

          Your mom is a mother of love, right?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Is *that* the best YOUR KIND have?

          Veiled insults embedded in deepities?

          No *wonder* YOUR KIND are losing roughy 1000 ‘believers’ a day everywhere in the world where life doesn’t SUCK.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not, it’s bad. Is your mother loving? Life does suck, without Christ.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          My life is just fine without your Jewish lich on a stick.

        • Hey, Angel-cakes. Read it and weep.

          God and Spousal Abuse:

          It’s common for Christians to compare the relationship between humanity and God to that between husband and wife. God is the ‘man’ of the house to whom humanity owes obedience, respect, and honor. Usually this relationship is portrayed as one of love, but in far too many ways, God is more like an abusive spouse who only knows how to love through intimidation and violence. A review of classic signs and symptoms of spousal abuse reveals how abusive the ‘relationship’ people have with God is.

          Victims are Afraid of the Abuser:

          Abusers instill fear in their spouses; believers are instructed to fear God. Abusers are unpredictable and given to dramatic mood swings; God is depicted as alternating between love and violence. Abused spouses avoid topics which set off the abuser; believers avoid thinking about certain things to avoid angering God. Abusers make one feel like there is no way to escape a relationship; believers are told that there is no way to escape God’s wrath and eventual punishment.

          Abusers Use of Threats and Intimidation to Force Compliance:

          Violence is a primary means by which abusers communicate, even with their spouses whom they are supposed to love.

          Abusers aren’t just violent towards their spouses — they also use violence against objects, pets, and other things to instill more fear and to force compliance with their wishes. God is portrayed as using violence to force people to comply with certain rules and Hell is the ultimate threat of violence. God might even punish an entire nation for the transgressions of a few members.

          Abusers Withholds Resources from Victims:

          In order to exercise greater control over a victim, abusers will withhold important resources in order to make the victim more dependent. Resources used like this include money, credit cards, access to transportation, medications, or even food. God is also depicted as exercising control over people by controlling their resources — if people are insufficiently obedient, for example, God may cause crops to fail or water to turn bad. The basic necessities of living are conditioned on obeying God.

          Abusers Instill Feelings of Inadequacy in Victims:

          A further means of exercising control over a victim is instilling feelings of inadequacy in them.

          By getting them to feel worthless, helpless, and unable to do anything right, they will lack the self-confidence necessary to stand up to the abuser and resist the abuse. Believers are taught that they are depraved sinners, unable to do anything right and unable to have good, decent, or moral lives independent of God. Everything good that a believer achieves is due to God, not their own efforts.

          Victims Feel they Deserve to be Punished by Abusers:

          Part of the process of encouraging the victim to feel inadequate involves getting them to feel that they really do deserve the abuse they are suffering. If the abuser is justified in punishing the victim, then the victim can hardly complain, can she?God is also described as being justified in punishing humanity — all people are so sinful and depraved that they deserve an eternity in hell (created by God). Their only hope is that God will take pity on them and save them.

          Victims are Not Trusted by Abusers:

          Another part of the process of making the victim feel inadequate is ensuring that they know how little the abuser trusts them. The victim is not trusted to make her own decisions, dress herself, buy things on her own, or anything else. She is also isolated from her family so that she can’t find help. God, too, is depicted as treating people as if they were unable to do anything right or make their own decisions (like on moral issues, for example).

          Emotional Dependency of the Abuser on the Victim:

          Although abusers encourage victims to feel inadequate, it is the abuser who really has problems with self-confidence. Abusers encourage emotional dependency because they are emotionally dependent themselves — this produces extreme jealousy and controlling behavior. God, too, is depicted as dependent upon human worship and love. God is usually described as jealous and unable to handle it when people turn away. God is all-powerful, but unable to prevent the smallest problems.

          Blaming the Victim for the Abuser’s Actions:

          Victims are typically made to feel responsible for all of an abuser’s actions, not just deserving of the punishments inflicted. Thus victims are told that it’s their fault when an abuser gets angry, feels suicidal, or indeed when anything at all goes wrong. Humanity is also blamed for everything that goes wrong — although God created humanity and can stop any unwanted actions, all responsibility for all evil in the world is laid entirely at the feet of human beings.

          Why Do Abused People Stay With Their Abusers?:

          Why do women stay with violent, abusive spouses? Why don’t they just pack up and leave, making a new life for themselves elsewhere and with people who actually respect and honor them as equal, independent human beings?The signs of abuse described above should help in answering these questions: women are so emotionally and psychologically beaten down that they lack the mental strength to do what is necessary. They don’t have enough confidence to believe that they can make it without the man who keeps telling them that only he could possibly love such an ugly and worthless person such as they.

          Perhaps some insight on this can be gained by rephrasing the question and asking why people don’t abandon the emotionally and psychologically abusive relationship they are expected to develop with God? The existence of God isn’t relevant here, what matters is how people are taught to perceive themselves, their world, and what will happen to them if they make the mistake of trying to leave the relationship in order to make a better life for themselves elsewhere.

          Women who are abused are told that they can’t make it on their own and if they try, their spouse will come after them to punish or even kill them. Believers are told that they can’t accomplish anything of value without God, that they are so worthless that only because God is infinitely loving does he love them at all; if they turn their backs on God, they will be punished for all eternity in hell. The sort of ‘love’ which God has for humanity is the ‘love’ of an abuser who threatens, attacks, and commits violence in order to get his own way.

          Religions like Christianity are abusive insofar as they encourage people to feel inadequate, worthless, dependent, and deserving of harsh punishment. Such religions are abusive insofar as they teach people to accept the existence of a god which, if human, would have long ago been shut away in prison for all his immoral and violent behavior.

          ([source])

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, God is the father. Caring and loving. You just want your own standards instead of objective standards to match up too.

        • LOL you’re so naive!

        • Yeah, those aren’t “my” standards, cupcake. That’s an outline showing that God is clearly an abuser. Good, loving parents don’t use threats of violence or actual violence (too many instances in the Bible to count). Good, loving parents don’t destroy their children’s property (Job). Good, loving parents don’t then bribe their children to stay loyal (Job, again). Good, loving parents are present. They help their children. They don’t just vanish and say “you’re on your own” and then punish you for screwing up because they weren’t there to guide you. Your “God” is not caring, not loving, and not “good” by any meaningful standards.

        • People are supposed to grow up, leave their father and strike out on their own.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Not sadistic abuser, but a God of love…

          Wise ta fuck up!

          Tell that to the victims in Numbers 31.

          What ya mean ya haven’t read it?

          That’s the chapter where YahwehJesus orders the killing of every man, women, and child…except the virgin girls, whom he orders should be taken as part of the war booty, to be used for sex slaves and paedophile rape wives.

          And YahwehJesus makes sure he gets his share of the spoils.

          Know yer buybull…

          https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31&version=NIV

        • Angel Rosas

          As a example, not everything is fallacy. God exists though you don’t physically see it. The creation is a testament to this fact, with the Bible being evidence.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          God exists though you don’t physically see it.

          I DON’T BELIEVE YOU.

          Demonstrate why YOUR KIND believe I *should* fall for your superstition.

          The creation is a testament to this fact, with the Bible being evidence.

          Nope.

          Reality IS, and there’s no evidence it was ‘created’.

          And your ‘bible’ is the *claim*, and claims AREN’T evidence.

        • Greg G.

          Saying the air does not exist is a fallacy.

          it’s not really a fallacy, either, but simply a false statement.

        • Pofarmer

          It’s mainly just stupid.

        • Susan

          it’s not really a fallacy, either, but simply a false statement.

          I thought I covered that with 2).

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Liar. Air can be felt, measured, and tested, unlike your God, who you have yet to provide evidence for. If you can’t show that your God exists, then your arguments are meaningless and worthless. The burden of proof is on you and other theists.

        • Angel Rosas

          Simple, the creation
          The Holy Spirit. You really want to measure the spritual? Then say this: “Jesus is Lord”.
          The natural man can’t discern the spritual. It’s like alternate dimensions. You can say the existence for them, but you’re not in them. You can’t feel them. The same goes for the supernatural. You can determine its existence by finding a hole where they should be. If something moves a object, but you can’t feel or determine it then that indicates they’re on a different plane right? A different being. It’s simply there, but you don’t feel it.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Yes, you are correct that it’s a fallacy when you compare gods to winds. One has an effect that is measurable, the other does not.

        • Angel Rosas

          But the “gods” do have a effect, but you don’t see it. What you can see however are the measurable effects of it. Like something moving a object that you don’t see.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Great, so give me an example of something moving that had clearly and unambiguously been propelled by this effect.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          But the “gods” do have a effect, but you don’t see it.

          SECOND OWN GOAL OF THE THREAD! (this could be a *loooong* night for ‘angel rosas’, folks…)

        • Angel Rosas

          Simple, it’s in the effect. Cause and effect. You see it in the result.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Simple, it’s in the effect. Cause and effect.

          Simple, and you’re being deceptive.

          Effects are perceptible *regardless* of the belief of the perceiver.

          Your ‘god’ that you claim affects the Universe HASN’T YET provided perceptible effects to any who haven’t already been lost to your superstition…meaning the ‘effect’ you’re talking about is misplaced agency.

        • Angel Rosas

          That’s why. The effect, is in the universe. It’s all around us. The entire creation. You thinking. You are a example.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That’s why. The effect, is in the universe.

          The Universe *exists*, and I can experience it, either directly or through instruments for those phenomena that human senses can’t directly detect.

          There’s no need to add this ‘god’ of yours into the mix for skeptics…only for the superstitious.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, God created it all. That’s the truth.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Describe how your universe with a creator differs from my universe without a creator.

        • Angel Rosas

          Because without it, it wouldn’t have existed. You can use “the matrix” proofs by scientists, but that’s another matter.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Because without it, it wouldn’t have existed.

          Nope.

          YOUR KIND don’t get to make that claim without showing it.

          Try again.

        • Angel Rosas

          You can’t say it. Amazing. May God Bless.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND can’t taunt me…although it’s amusing to watch you try.

          Again, IF it’s so important to you, pray to your ‘god’ to FORCE me.

          I notice you’re strangely *silent* about actually doing something that would be measurable in the real world, and where you could be shown to be wrong..

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          So why invent a god? Who created it? And so on and on and on…

        • Angel Rosas

          Josephivus was right, apostles, and so were the apostles of age old.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish

          Fake news.

        • Thanks4AllTheFish
        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, God created it all. That’s the truth.

          Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true…although YOUR KIND seem to believe it *does* make it true.

          Try again.

        • Angel Rosas

          A duck is a organ. Is that true? Are ducks organs, and are we?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re purposely trying to confuse the situation, and it’s blatantly evident.

          If you need to confirm reality, take it to a dictionary, and stick to the point.

          You’re claiming ‘god’, but refusing to show it, and then being very offended that we don’t believe you. Why SHOULD we believe you? (No superstitious nonsense or assertions are acceptable)

        • Artor

          Words have meanings. Use them. You are spouting gibberish.

        • Lucy

          I would never argue that a human is an organ.

          I am a Master’s student in animal biology. Don’t insult my intelligence by saying that I don’t know the difference between an organ (like the heart, or some other individual part of a living thing’s body) and an organism, aka an entire living being (and humans are organisms – please brush up on your biology for that one and review your definitions).

          I assume Spanish is your first language, and given that the Spanish word for “organism”, which I looked up in case I forgot since I don’t remember much of the vocabulary from the Spanish I took, is “organismo”, with a difference of one letter from the English word, you really should have guessed that. A lot of the science words are similar in English and Spanish – heck, even the word for “science” is similar (ciencia – I remember that one), yet you seem to have trouble spotting the simplest similarities between languages with the book right in front of you. Which isn’t much of a recommendation when even D students (and F students) from my school could recognize patterns like these in Spanish words in a Spanish class they barely paid attention to (and sometimes made rude jokes and laughed to no end when such patterns were false, as in the word for “desk”, which is “pupitre”, which they falsely equated with solid bathroom waste, or the word “pinos” which they falsely equated with the dangly bit cis men and boys have one of, not the one they have two of).

          And when I say those were D and F students, I mean it – they didn’t learn anything, and they could still guess similarities like that, even if they were false (and they of course guessed the true ones too). So really, I don’t think much of your critical thinking skills if you can’t tell that “organ” and “organism” are not the same thing. Especially since I suspect you are capable of outperforming most of those students in language skills, especially since their Spanish is worse than your English, yet your pattern recognition skills are worse than theirs, apparently.

          Oh, and if you ever learned about cells, you’d know there’s a third word with “organ” as a prefix – organelle, which means the parts of an individual cell (i.e. the nucleus, the ribosome, the mitochondria, all that jazz). I also looked up the Spanish word for “organelle” (which I know was never converted in my Spanish classes because I don’t even have a hint of recollection) in case you didn’t take your science classes in English – it’s “orgánulo”

        • al kimeea

          Yay for your deity creating childhood cancers, parasites, polio, smallpox…

        • Angel Rosas

          It’s all meant to refine. It’s the reality.

        • al kimeea

          Refine, to purify or improve children with cancer. Sweet.

        • Bob Jase

          Then everything wrong in creation is God’s fault because he made it that way.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it is creation. It will all go back to him. It’s the Potter’s responsibility, and he will decide what to do with it.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Nope. You can’t show that your God exists, that He created the universe (or anything else, for that matter), nor have you shown that He was the “First Cause.” Of course, the universe didn’t “need” a cause in the first place, because cause and effect are properties of space-time, which didn’t exist before the Big Bang.

        • Angel Rosas

          God created time-and-space. Everything here is a effect of him. We are vessels, in a movie.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Except that you have yet to show this to be true. You keep asserting, without evidence, that this is true. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And you didn’t actually address or refute my argument or logic.

        • Angel Rosas

          God is using it to refine.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Citation needed, fuckwit69.

        • Bob Jase

          Because god was incompetent at creating it correctly?

        • al kimeea

          Jesus is punishing China with the corona-virus or, could it be… SATAN!!!

        • Artor

          What is this effect? Nobody has been able to identify it. Every time someone looks close, we always find normal, natural causes behind things. Always. As soon as you can demonstrate even a single bit of evidence for your god, you will overturn the entire scientific community, and win a few Nobel prizes. So where is it? Where is your evidence? You have nothing, dude.

        • Angel Rosas

          The evidence is there, but you don’t want to see it.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, they don’t. They have no effect on anything, because they haven’t shown toexist, much less DO anything. What are these alleged “measurable effects” that they have? Surely someone, somewhere, would have scientific evidence which has undergone peer-review which should show these effects are real. So where is this “evidence?”

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          What’s simple is there. Saying the air does not exist is a fallacy. The winds are real.

          Both air and wind are measurable.

          YOUR KIND’s so-called ‘god’, though, ISN’T measurable, and YOUR KIND avoid ANY effort to measure it, knowing it only exists in your deluded, superstitious minds.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, there’s creation. There is the Holy Spirit too. The natural man can’t explore the supernatural.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you keep on pushing assertions you refuse to demonstrate?

          Repeating YOUR KIND’s lies do NOT make them true, and YOUR KIND *obviously* don’t have the power to force us to be quiet about your 69bullshit and authoritarian overreach.

          In fact, your assertions show just how feeble your supposed ‘god’ IS… IF it was as YOUR KIND *say* it is, then we wouldn’t be free to call it out as the nonsense it is, now *would* we?

        • Angel Rosas

          God’s kind is real, and love. You just want sex. That’s the thing. God is loving, and just. Your filthy imagination does not count. If your imagination came to reality, it would need to be put down to the backshed.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND *still* aren’t mind readers, and Romans 1:20 is *still* 69bullshit.

          And all your whining and protestation to the contrary just demonstrates the weakness of your position.

          Face it, you’re gonna fail to make the sale.

        • Angel Rosas

          I can read your heart. Can’t make a “sale” when you’re unwilling to. Romans 1:20 comes from 1:19. What is the manuscript evidence for it? Did you come up with this theory by yourself? Deluded, and God’s love is greater. May God bless.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That’s VERY weak.

          Do better.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you CAN’T read people hearts, you’re just delusional. And attempting to dodge the burden of proof. And Romans 1:20 is a poor joke in a shitty69, badly written holy book which hasbno evidence to support it. I don’t know why you keep quoting the Bible on an ATHEIST website, where the vast majority of commenters were raised Christian, and already know and reject the Bible, along with the dumbass69 apologetics that you’re (poorly) trying to use.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          More worthless assertions and ad hominem attacks because you have jack diddle-shit to back up your claims. And the fact that you had to resort to ad hominem attacks shows how weak and precarious your claims really are.

        • Artor

          Projection again. Please don’t push your perverted fantasies onto other people. That’s your kink, not ours.

        • Lucy

          Oh, sorry. This asexual aromantic nonreligious atheist begs to differ. You know what asexual is, right? Asexual means “not feeling any 69sexual attractions or drives. And I’ll do you one-step further. I am a 69sex-repulsed asexual. That means that the idea of having 69sex disgusts me on a visceral level (as does the idea of French kissing, which I know isn’t a romantic thing but a 69sexual one because I am not romance-repulsed).

          And yet I am not morally disgusted by the idea of people getting it on. That disgust I feel is an entirely personal revulsion, akin to someone disliking paté or Tofutti cream cheese or mayo or some such – none of these are wrong, but they do gross some people out. And no, I don’t believe in God.

        • Angel Rosas

          You’re still “degen”.

        • Lucy

          And you’re still throwing out 69Nazi terminology. Designed to dismiss anything that doesn’t allow you script.

          I’m noticing a pattern here too. You use “degen” whenever I say something that implies common threads with your supposed religious stance or something while still showing disbelief in God. Thus trying your level best to be incapable of being reached out to.

          I hope you grow out of this someday. And learn some actual humility.

        • Angel Rosas

          “degen”
          Nazi? I’m not a Nazi, but a child of God.

        • Lucy

          No, but you are using terminology associated with Nazis. If you would not be taken for a Nazi, stop using Nazi terminology. Like “degen”, which is short for “degenerate” in the following sense (obviously expanded among the modern alt-right – aka Nazis).

          Degenerate art (German: Entartete Kunst) was a term adopted in the 1920s by the Nazi Party in Germany to describe modern art. During the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler, German modernist art, including many works of internationally renowned artists, was removed from state owned museums and banned in Nazi Germany on the grounds that such art was an “insult to German feeling”, un-German, Jewish, or Communist in nature. Those identified as degenerate artists were subjected to sanctions that included being dismissed from teaching positions, being forbidden to exhibit or to sell their art, and in some cases being forbidden to produce art.[1]

          Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art#21st-century_reactions

        • Lucy

          Oh, and plenty of Nazis, particularly neo-Nazis, also feel that they are children of God.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Again, shitstain69, you haven’t shown these assumptions to be true, you just ASSERT that it’s true. Prove that your God exists and that this is a creation that your God is responsible for. Because that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Which you have yet to give.

        • Artor

          That’s because there is no evidence for the supernatural. It behaves exactly as if it does not exist, so rational people treat it like that.

        • Artor

          The wind is something that can be felt and measured. Your delusions are not detectable, and there is nothing to suggest that we should validate them.

        • Angel Rosas

          Only yourself, but your mistakes come from the evil one.

        • Michael Neville

          That makes no sense. But then very little of what you say makes any sense. You’re a very nonsensical child.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, that’s a weak and worthless argument that believers use because they have no evidence or arguments for their bullshit69 God claims. You’re also a liar and a hypocrite, because it’s Christians who don’t want to admit their shortcomings and place the blame on others. Look at how quick Christians are to blame Satan and demons when people, ESPECIALLY Christians, are caught doing fucked69 up things like raping69 children. Or how they blame and demonize the LGBTQ or non-Christians for the state of the world, rather than admit that it was Christians and Christianity that’s responsible. You and other Christians are in no position to make this claim, because Christians don’t know shit69 about morality OR responsibility.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, that’s you. You call out other “Christians”, because they come from against your camp. Yet, any from your camp and you’re siding with them instead. You don’t want objective moral standard.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Sorry, but the burden of proof us on you, you’re just attempting to shift the burden of proof onto others because you have no evidence or arguments. And Christians don’t believe in or follow “objective moral standards,” because otherwise, you’d have to condone the fucked69 up things in your holy book. Do you condone pedophilia69, child rape69, child marriage, incest69, slavery, sexual69 slavery, familial cannibalism, murder, mass murder, genocide, and infanticide? Because God and the Bible do, and if you oppose these things, then you oppose God and the Bible. Using your “logic,” these things are acceptable. I, and everyone here disagree, which makes us more moral than you and your God.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You don’t want to admit your shortcomings and place the blame on someone else.

          ^^^^More projection here, another confessing accusation.

          It’s almost too easy…I mean, C’MON, you can’t defend your superstition any better than *this*?

        • Angel Rosas

          No, because it’s real. Look deeper into yourself and at the microscopic level. Look into what is the meaning of everything. You have to acknowledge God, it’s not impossible.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You keep using those words.

          I do not think they mean what YOUR KIND think they mean.

          So do better. YOUR KIND can’t successfully browbeat, you saleshack…you’ve got to *convince* if you want to make the sale.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          More bullshit69 from a kkkunt69 with no evidence. Just fact-free assertions. You might as well say that Harry Potter is real. There’s just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is for Harry Potter, which is none at all.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, they’re real.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Not an argument, just another worthless assertion with no evidence. Repeating your claims doesn’t make them true.

        • Artor

          You have just revealed the depth of your ignorance. Really, take a high-school biology class and actually look in a microscope. We understand how cells work, and there is no god in there.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, God made them. There are “black holes” in-between cells, from what I remember. You had a purpose, and now this is your purpose.

        • Wan Kun Sandy

          There are “black holes” in-between cells, from what I remember.

          Are you for real? You don’t even mention what those “black holes in-between cells” are. What are they? How can we know what you’re really talking about? This is the very first time I’ve heard such a thing. You should provide any citation or you’ll be seen as making those up by yourself (which I suspect so).

          You must also clarify what “black holes” that you mean here, since most people will think of black holes which absorb matters inside. It’s very impossible to have such kind of black holes between cells, if so then this world, this Earth and anything above, on, and under it would be absorbed into the black holes and thus no longer exist.

          You also must specify what cells they are, whether they are single-cell organisms (prokaryotic or eukaryotic), fungal cells, plant cells, or animal cells. It’s very important, since they all have their own characteristics and differences.

        • Lucy

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6c2692d08fe9f091322e28fcb03436ca1c1d49e7e80e211138d56d2c8cb10058.png

          Do you mean “holes” like in that photo?

          Those “holes” are actually organelles. Parts of a cell. Located inside the cell, surely as your heart is located within your body. If you were asked to take a cell biology class, you would be asked to identify exactly what those “holes” are. And what function they perform within the cell.

          Or do you mean gaps in cell structures? Some cells are loosely packed together, so they end up forming one solid-ish mass but if you cut a slice of them you can still see the slide clear through the gaps.

          In the actual organism, those “holes” would simply manifest as bubbles. Because they are merely the gap through which other fluids of the body (and sometimes gas) enter.

        • Lucy

          Are you sure you didn’t take LSD? Or mushrooms? Or some other hallucinogen? Because looking into yourself “at the microscopic level” is something people say of having experiences of “looking deep into themselves and at the microscopic level”.

          Especially when they also cannot correctly recognize how many shapes of bacteria live on their skin and cannot see or recognize the types of cells that make up their body (which is everyone unless they have access to an actual microscope and slides of human body parts).

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it was a different article. I’ll look it up for you.

        • Lucy

          One article doesn’t tell you how everything is at the microscopic level.

        • Kuno

          If an omniscient deity created me then they are to be blamed for my shortcomings.

        • Angel Rosas

          Who are you to call back at the Potter? “Who are you to make me, this way?”. You were a vessel with a creation. You had a purpose, and now this is what happened.

        • Kuno

          What has that to do with what I wrote?

        • Lucy

          A decent potter would hear that, and apologize for his mistakes. And an omniscient Potter would know they were mistakes.

          My father apologized for the mistakes he made while raising me, as did my mom. Mistakes they made due to having far less knowledge than an omniscient God would have.

          A benevolent God would apologize for the mistakes he made.

        • Angel Rosas

          God doesn’t make mistakes. Even while we’re imperfect, you would argue we’re still perfect right? “You’re perfect just the way you are”, as a example. A Potter is above the clay as the Potter.

        • Lucy

          No. I would argue that perfection is a meaningless standard when it comes to things like that. I would argue, rather, that we are what we are, and that e evolved as we are because it was the best way we could survive with the genetic material we had.

          And the Potter is above the clay so long as the clay remains inanimate. If the clay morphs into an amorphous living blob, suddenly the equation changes, both for the hierarchical definition of “above” and the literal definition. Same if a sculpture comes to life. At that point, the clay or sculpture may do different things that the potter cannot predict or even stop, assuming the potter, unlike God, does not have infinite power to control every one of these changes.

        • Kuno

          If a potter knowingly uses clay that will crack in the kiln, he is responsible for the pot leaking later. Not the pot.

      • Cozmo the Magician

        Not only does he roll the dice where nobody can see em , he uses LOADED dice.

    • JustAnotherAtheist2

      Just another game of apologetics “heads I win, tails you lose”. Stuff acts normal? That’s evidence for god! Stuff goes haywire? That’s evidence for god, too!

      • Cozmo the Magician

        Wilbur and Orville build aircraft “If man was ment to fly, god woulda give us wings”

        Airplane survives bad weather “God was with us during that flight”

        Plane crashes and one person survives “God save me!” (fuggetaboot those other mooks)

        Plane crashes and no survivors “God hates gays”

    • Angel Rosas

      God made the entire law, and you break it. You want your decisions and to be wicked.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Sure, Spanky…whatever you say 😉

        (not)

      • Cozmo the Magician

        nice complete non response to my actual comment.

    • Angel Rosas

      Nope, God has the eternal judgement.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Nope, God has the eternal judgement.

        Non sequitur.

        How about actually addressing what was said, rather than throwing out a “Nuh UH!”

      • Cozmo the Magician

        But , the Doctor has a sonic a sonic screwdriver.

  • Angel Rosas

    God’s love is eternal. He loves you.

    • Lord Backwater

      Got evidence for that?

      • Angel Rosas

        Evidence for what?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Evidence for what?

          Your assertions.

          Do you think it’s not obvious that you’re not interacting with good and honorable intent?

          Be ashamed, stripling.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, i don’t want to be ashamed so i hold myself up to a higher standard. You on the otherhand, don’;t want to be ashamed so you hide it, or justify it. You use a another standard.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, i don’t want to be ashamed so i hold myself up to a higher standard.

          As usual, you’re shamelessly lying, in this case not in the LACK of evidence but COUNTER the evidence.

          You hold no standard except believing you ‘win’ an exchange, discarding honesty, honor, and sociability.

          And still you hold this mistaken inflated sense of ‘rightness’, due to the lies that stained your mind before you had a chance to fight back.

          One day, with time, that stain may fade sufficiently for you to escape.

          Until then, be quiet and listen to the adults in the room…you might, accidentally, *learn* something.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i had the truth. i had a “chance” to fight back, but that was in the past. This is now, and maybe you’ll be saved. You’ll need to learn again. The truth will win.

        • Lucy

          Yes, it will. One day, you will be in the ground, and your consciousness will fade, and you will end up neither in heaven or 1hell because neither of those places exist.

          So yes, the truth will win. But it won’t be the “truth” you think.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, I will be in heaven and you can be too. May God bless.

        • Lucy

          I’d rather be dead in the ground than in heaven and living in fear of the inevitable day across the grand span of eternity in which the denizens of hell would rise up like crabs in a bucket, crawling up over each other until they reach heaven and either try to get up there, or, failing that, pull those from heaven into the depths of hell. Because people desperate for survival, in extreme pain but who can still move and still clearly have functioning parts (because how else could they be tortured forever, especially if they can still scream and never have seizures), particularly those as depraved as your narrative suggests, will ultimately climb over each other, and given an eternal lifespan and many billions, will climb up to heaven and cause trouble there. Especially if said hell was the evangelical narrative I suspect you subscribe to (or at any rate that some of the people you follow definitely do), where people gather around in heaven and watch the torture joyfully.

          I also would rather people tried to make the world better here instead of counting on heaven to wipe away everything.

          And FYI, I don’t believe that heaven/hell narrative. It’s just that this is the only outcome that could result from a heaven that is essentially a box seat for watching the torture of hell.

    • Michael Neville

      According to the Bible your god is a sadistic bully with the emotional maturity of a spoiled six year old. He kills people just because he can. He orders genocide and sexual slavery. He condones rape and chattel slavery. He is not a good critter.

      • ORigel

        It occured to me…maybe Solomon acted so unwisely despite being blessed with wisdom by YHWH because YHWH had no wisdom to bless him with.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope. He had wisdom given, and was able to rule over kingdoms. He fell in with other idols, and this is the result.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Whatever you say, spanky.

          Run off and play now, the adults are talking.

        • Angel Rosas

          Quiet, retard. You’re aren’t right, so that’s it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I know people who are developmentally disabled, and they’re both much *nicer* and much SMARTER than you, stripling.

          So correct your own social / emotional stunting BEFORE you start casting cheap meaningless (except in their evidence of bilious spleen) attempts at insulting.

          Like I said, the adults are talking, and you not only don’t ADD to the conversation, you detract from it.

          G’way, kid, ya annoy me.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, they’re fooled. I was also one of them, believe it or not. But i grew up out of it. You’re a annoyance.

        • Lucy

          The fact that you had urges to get it on with horses alone proves that no, you were not one of them. Not a single person I know of has ever had that urge – and I am an animal research Master’s student. If that was so common, I would have seen it before.

        • Lucy

          Oh, and people don’t grow out of developmental disabilities. Be they intellectual disabilities, autism, or something else.

          And as an autistic person myself, I say that people who claim that someone “grew out of” autism or was cured of autism is full of baloney. Autistic kids grow up to be autistic adults. Some of whom are religious, some not, some god, some bad, because autistic people are human too.

      • Angel Rosas

        How? God made the right world and decisions, but you call his decisions wicked while making decisions wickedly. All a distortion. It’s a fallen world.

        • Michael Neville

          According to YOUR Bible your god kills people for grins and giggles. That tells me that he’s an immoral arsehole. And it doesn’t say much about you that your worship a sociopath.

        • Angel Rosas

          Where? God has the right justice and worship. You would definitely kill me for shits and giggles during the fifth seal.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Where? God has the right justice and worship.

          If your ‘god’ was *just*, it would destroy itself for its misdeeds.

          and why would a perfect being even *need* ‘worship’? Isn’t feeling needy a sign of imperfection, if not grandiose entitlement?

        • Lucy

          No, I wouldn’t. I do not murder people for shits and giggles. Heck, the one time I even hit a person who could not defend herself, I begged to be off the medication that caused me to rage in that way, because it is not like me to hit someone defenseless – and seeing someone strike another to the ground makes me angry. Heck, the last time I saw a bunch of boys gang up on another, I clearly and audibly stated “he doesn’t deserve to be bullied”, and those boys stopped.

          I am not the kind of person who murders for shits and giggles.

        • Bob Jase

          If the world is fallen then the god who supposedly created it and called it good was both wrong and a poor creator.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it is fallen so it needs a savior. the creator lets it go. and we’re the result who needs a savior. God’s mercy is great, and you are a result of it. You are allowed to live.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, it is fallen so it needs a savior.

          So, poor design.

          GOOD designers don’t design something to fail in a way that needs a hasty patch…they design it to not fail in the first place.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          It’s a fallen world.

          WHO guaranteed that would happen, per your story?

          Your ‘god’, that’s who…it set up humanity to fail, then BLAMED humanity, which is a real 69asshole maneuver.

          And YOUR KIND actually *worship* this thing?

        • Angel Rosas

          Adam and eve. They took the apple. Not me, but i come from them. That’s what happened.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          WHO guaranteed that would happen, per your story?

          Adam and eve. They took the apple. Not me, but i come from them. That’s what happened.

          WHO, per your book, ‘created’ the first man and woman?

          the blame ALWAYS goes back to your ‘god’, in your story. Since per the story it has ALL the power, it has to take ALL the responsibility…meaning ALL the *blame* as well.

    • DeadBabyJoke

      Really? Is that why God murdered over 20,000,000 people in the Bible? Is that why God created Hell, a place of eternal punishment, for when people don’t kiss His @$$? Even though He would have already known beforehand whether someone was going to believe and worship Him or not? How about creating the LGBTQ just so He can send them to Hell, even though He knew beforehand what their sexual orientation was/is? God is NOT love, He’s an evil, murderous, jealous, petty, genocidal dictator who I don’t want anything to do with, if He existed.

      • Angel Rosas

        Hell is the place of judgement. You pick where to go. You decide your God, and choose. You serve wicked or right. Not wanting to believe in the truth, and instead in a lie. God’s judgements were right. The canannites had “high places” with babies. You want to serve others instead of God. You decide to love God, or death.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Hell is the place of judgement. You pick where to go.

          Oh, so you’re a heretic?

          Revelation 21:8 disagrees with you, so does
          2 Thessalonians 1:9, and
          Matthew 10:28, and
          Matthew 13:42, and
          Matthew 13:50, and
          Matthew 25:41.

          ALL of those verses have your ‘god’ acting in its usual spoiled-brat, genocidal manner.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, we are in agreement. Hell is the place of judgement, and pick where to go. You know what to do. Believe in the truth. Just do it mentally. None of this whole “it’s subjective, shit”. Tell yourself to believe in the truth, and follow it. I did that before, and tried to find the truth. Just declare yourself to be human. You are human, right? None of this “it’s a organ, with 2 other organs too”. You are human, and me too.

        • Otto

          It’s your story, so you can tell it any way you like. That is why no ones story is exactly the same. Everyone has their own story. This is yours.

        • Angel Rosas

          But we live in thr same world, right?

        • Otto

          You make up your religious story, you tie it to reality but it only is valid in your story. Like Spiderman in New York…New York is real, Spiderman is not.

        • Angel Rosas

          except it is real. you have morality. you inherited it from the catholics.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          except it is real. you have morality. you inherited it from the catholics.

          Yet another fail.

          Morals today are *Enlightenment* morals…which were derived from pagan Greek society, pre-xtianity, and blatantly contradict much of YOUR KIND’s authoritarian abusive ideas.

          Otherwise, slavery would still be legal and morally acceptable, women would be considered property, and we’d be ruled by royalty rather than democratic government…for *starters*.

        • Otto

          The Catholics that think child r@pe is acceptable? No….that is not a positive morality. There is nothing moral about Catholicism.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Non sequitur.

          There are atheists, xtians, muslims, jewish people, hindus, shinto, buddhists, etc.

          Occupying the same world doesn’t require occupying the same superstitions.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yet, you’re afraid seemingly of using “christian”.. I wonder why.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Yet, you’re afraid seemingly of using “christian”.. I wonder why.

          It’s a purposeful insult.

          I know YOUR KIND don’t like it, so I use it.

          If you left us alone, you’d never have to see it, now would you?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, you’re a heretic.

          YOU are claiming that people *choose* this ‘hell’…your ‘bible’ says your bad-tempered sociopathic ‘god’ FORCES those who displease it there.

          That’s the left hand of the throne for you right there, kiddo! Enjoy your long life knowing you’ve damned yourself ETERNALLY! 😉

          (well, if you *continue* to believe and embrace your kiddie nonsense)

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, that is your choice. You chose that path, and walk it. But you can walk in the other path. It’s all pre-destined in the end.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, that is your choice.

          That claim denies your ‘god’ and means you’re hellbound.

          Not my problem, but it’s amusing.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, Hell is imaginary and a scare tactic to control and frighten the stupid & weak-minded. And place of judgement? Please. This is nothing more than your God being a callous, sadistic @$$hole. If your God were compotent, then He would have made things perfectly the first time around, instead of eternally punishing people for His fuck69 ups. I mean, your God couldn’t be bothered with basic security to protect a fucking69 tree, but instead of admitting it, He took it out on humanity. If your God exists, then He can go fuck69 Himself

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it all goes somewhere. God made a world, and this is the result. It’s free-will. Your world is wicked. That’s simple. You want a world where nothing goes wrong. It all goes in your favor.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Nope, it all goes somewhere.”
          Prove it, liar.

          “God made a world, and this is the result.”
          Nope. You ASSERT that this is the case, but you can’t show that your God exists, much less created anything. You also haven’t shown that this is a “creation.” You just assert that it is.

          “It’s free-will.”
          I’ve already pointed out why free will can’t exist at the same time as your God. I’m not surprised that you were to stupid to understand it.

          “Your world is wicked.”
          You’re as much a part of this “wicked” world as I am, shitstain69. If the world is “wicked,” then the blame lies at the feet of your alleged “God.” He created evil and Satan, after all. (Isaiah 45:7)

          “That’s simple.”
          Another evidence-free assertion. And it’s hardly “simple,” given that your God had to commit a complicated form of suicide to save humanity from Himself and His incompetence.

          “You want a world where nothing goes wrong.”
          No, I’m pointing out how your God, who is ALLEGED to be all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect, and incapable of making mistakes, has been STUNNINGLY incompetent in how he created and runs things.

          “It all goes in your favor.”
          This coming from an abortion69 who prays to a Sky Wizard to alter reality so that you’ll get your way.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s all there. You choose to be wicked. Satan and evil are there to refine us, and you fall into their hands. I’m surpirsed you were retarded. You choose to have free-will, and pick what you want. You love satan, more than god. Nope, it’s all a reality. You’re a potter who had a potter and now will be used as a vessel for destruction it seems. the world works, and for a specific law. You would agree that southerners were wicked during their hanging of black people, right?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, it’s all there.

          You DO realize the only ‘place’ it exists is in the delusional diseased minds of your fellow superstition sufferers?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Nope, it’s all there.”
          You have yet to prove this to be true.

          “You choose to be wicked.”
          Sorry, but the fact that I don’t believe in your specific Sky Wizard doesn’t make me wicked, it just makes you look like a childish dumbass69 throwing a temper tantrum because we have the nerve to disagree with you.

          “Satan and evil are there to refine us, and you fall into their hands.”
          Prove that Satan exists.

          “I’m surpirsed you were retarded.”
          That’s rich, coming from a semiliterate shitstain69 crybaby who refuses to back up his claims, refuses to address or refute the arguments of others, thinks that the Bible is evidence, and continues to repeat idiotic assertions, even when it’s pointed out why they’re wrong.

          “You choose to have free-will, and pick what you want.
          This has been addressed and refuted multiple times already, you liar.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, you do “bad” things. It’s a reality.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Nope, it’s all there.”
          No, it’s not. Prove me wrong.

          “You choose to be wicked.” The fact that I don’t believe in your imaginary Sky Wizard doesn’t make me “wicked,” it just means that you’re a childish crybaby @$$hole throwing a temper tantrum because I have the nerve to disagree with you.

          “You love satan, more than god.”
          Nope, I can’t love or hate something which doesn’t exist.

          “Nope, it’s all a reality”
          Another baseless assertion with no evidence.

          “You’re a potter who had a potter and now will be used as a vessel for destruction it seems.”
          Except that you can’t show that this alleged potter exists or created anything.

          “the world works, and for a specific law.”
          And what is this alleged “specific law?”

          “You would agree that southerners were wicked during their hanging of black people, right?”
          You DO know that it was Christians who doing the hanging and were using the Bible as justification for these things, right?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, it all goes somewhere.

          It goes *away*.

          If you want to claim different, bring evidence of something other than your desperate need for attention.

        • Angel Rosas

          nah, you’re a kid. It will all go somewhere. You’re not different.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          As usual, an assertion sans evidence, designed to make you feel like a ‘big man’ who has a secret the rest of us don’t.

          Hint: We saw, and GAVE UP belief, because it’s nonsense. There’s no more going back to *that* belief than there would be believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and/or Tinkerbell again.

        • Angel Rosas

          nah, the opposite. it’s to control people like you, who can’t tell between wicked and evil. God made it all, in place of judgement. You will be judged.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nah, the opposite. it’s to control people like you

          Hard to use threats of terror on somebody who doesn’t believe the threat exists. Look up Game Theory for more on the topic. In short, a ‘threat’ that’s not credible causes a loss of status for the one making the threat, weakening said one as matters proceed.

          YOUR KIND haven’t got the ability to inflict harm on us any more, despite all your threats, so YOUR KIND have moved to threatening us with this silly idea of a ‘hereafter’…which is right up there with a kid threatening another kid that “my daddy will beat *your* daddy up!” when the kid speaking is an orphan.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, psychology is not sign of the reality of things but merely the effect. You are born and created with a mind. You fall into the lion’s jaws and into his lair.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “nah, the opposite.”
          Prove it, you brain-dead living abortion 69.

          “it’s to control people like you,”
          I don’t believe in hell, so it has no power over me. But it has power over dimwits like you.

          “who can’t tell between wicked and evil”
          That’d be Christians. The Bible condones all kinds of wicked and evil things, some of which I already listed earlier. If you can justify the atrocities in the Bible, then you can justify ANYTHING.

          “God made it all, in place of judgement. You will be judged.”
          More assertions with no evidence. Prove that your God exists, or fuck69 off.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Except that God is ALLEGED to be all-knowing and all-powerful, which means that free will can’t exist, and nobody has any choice whatsoever. God already knew who was going to heaven and hell, which sins they were going to commit, whether they believed in and worshipped Him, and whether they would repent or not. That makes Jesus’ so-called sacrifice meaningless. (He sacrificed nothing more than a weekend so he could save humanity from Himself. Not much of a sacrifice.) Why bother being a good person, repent of your sins or accept Jesus when God already knows?

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, have free will. You decide where to go. It is all predestined, but you have a choice. Your mind may not be able to comprehend it, but it’s all true. God sees all the past, present, and future yet you pick the future you want.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, have free will. You decide where to go.

          So you’re denying your ‘god’s ‘power’?

          Your ‘bible’ says it SENDS people to ‘hell’.

          You’re being wishy-washy because you’ve been infected, as you should be, with Enlightenment thought which holds that the ‘bible’s so-called ‘justice’ is horrible and unacceptable.

          But you’re not *allowed* to soften it, so you’re choosing ‘hell’ by not keeping it completely.

        • Angel Rosas

          Simple, by being vessels of wrath. God has Moses as a vessel of mercy, but the pharaoh as a vessel of destruction. You choose what to be, as a example. A man goes and robs a store, and never repents. A robber. In the same example, the man goes and repents. A repentant soul. The man was clearly different while being 2 vessels.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Simple, by being vessels of wrath.

          That’s not an answer, and you know it.

          You’re denying your ‘god’s SOLE POWER to send those it doesn’t like to your ‘hell’.

          Hope you enjoy the left hand of the throne there…btw, has your voice broken yet?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Uh, no, fucktard69. If everything is predestined, then you most definitely DON’T have a choice, much less free will. Did you even read my post, you personification of human waste? I already pointed out why this argument is shit69.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, you did have choice. But you pick the road you go on. At the end of everything, it will be predestined as it came to pass. to be the personifcation of human waste to you is a delight. more glory for me.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          YOUR KIND seem to be very willing to dishonestly distort your own ‘bible’ rather than admit error.

          And it’s biting YOUR KIND on the 69ass now, because it’s driving off people who once would have been trapped in your prison.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I already addressed and refuted these assertions, you lying twatwaffle69.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i have choice. but ultimately i’m a vessel. a vessel for destruction, or for grace. that’s the simple reality, of it,, and it hurts you. Does it hurt you?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, i have choice. but ultimately i’m a vessel.

          Translation: “I *say* I have choice, but I really don’t (mostly because I’m too terrified of the superstitions stained on my mind before the age of reason.)”

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Just how fucking69 dumb are you? I already pointed pointed out why this is bullshit69.. Either we have free will, or everything is predestined. You can’t have it both ways, pigfucker69.

        • Angel Rosas

          because only Jesus will save you. Only from him is salvation, to the lamb.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Jesus wasn’t real, nor was he the Messiah.

        • Lark62

          The deity hates asskissers62. She created the bible as a test to weed out jerks62 and cruel idiots62. Anyone who believes the bible is true or who thinks the deity described therein ia worthy of praise goes straight to hell62 for an eternity of Leave it to Beaver reruns.

          Looks like you are the one whose made their choice.

        • Angel Rosas

          You make the choice to go there. This Earth is a refining period, and your colors are shown in where you go.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You make the choice to go there.

          Committing apostasy again?

          Your bible says your ‘god’ *specifically* SENDS those who displease it there, not that it’s an informed choice.

          You’re letting Enlightenment philosophy overrule your religion…and that’s a damnable mind crime.

          Welcome to the left hand of the throne.

          Shame on you, little brat.

        • Angel Rosas

          apostacy is a example of it. you’re a little brat, for it. You choose to go there. While Romans 1:18 is excellent in explaining this. You need love.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          apostacy is a example of it. you’re a little brat, for it.

          Whatever, dweeb.

          as for ‘little brat’, more I’m rubber, you’re glue…and it seems to be getting under your skin 😉

          I don’t believe in your books at all, so by definition I can’t be apostate.

          YOU, on the other hand, *claim* to believe the book while contradicting it. That’s not just apostasy, it’s *heresy*.

          Left hand of the throne there, skippy…enjoy the crowd.

        • Lark62

          Nope. The deity cannot stand science denial, yes men or anyone who defends or praises the genocidal and slavery loving deity described in the bible.

          You’ve shown your true colors. It’s you who are doomed.

          With evidence, prove me wrong.

        • Angel Rosas

          how?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          By choosing to be a craven 69asskisser.

          You can obviously see it, so you’re conversing with no intent to inform or honestly exchange.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, but I’m telling you the truth.

    • DeadBabyJoke

      Also, citation needed. I want ACTUAL evidence, not Bible quotes. The Bible is NOT evidence, it’s the claim.

      • Angel Rosas

        The Bible is evidence. All of it is true. The Word of God is poison to you. The creator existed, and created the universe and decided to reveal Himself. It’s in the Bible. Read it, and the new testament with the apostles. James is a good example. Paul existed, and served faithfully. You’re talking about something you haven’t read. Read the words of Jesus, and see if they’re true. They have the way to life.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Nope. The Bible is the claim, not evidence. You have to provide verifiable, independent evidence that the Bible is true, and that it was inspired by God (who you can’t provide evidence for). Claiming that “God is real because the Bible says so, and that the Bible is true because God says it is” is circular logic.

        • Angel Rosas

          The evidence is outside. Is being a human “circular logic”? All the prophecies have been fullfilled, and will be fulfilled. The abomination of desolation, in particular. It will come to pass. Is doing “bad” things circular logic, from The boondocks?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “The evidence is outside.”
          In other words, you have no evidence for your God claims and are dodging the burden of proof.

          “Is being a human “circular logic”?”
          Non sequitur.

          “All the prophecies have been fullfilled, and will be fulfilled.
          Citation needed for these assertions, liar. Your word is worthless.
          By the way, here’s a short and incomplete list of failed Bible prophecies which contradicts your assertions:

          Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

          Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.

          Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

          Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus’ birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy…First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “almah”, which actually means “young woman”. A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. “Bethulah” would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.

          Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

          Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.

          Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.

          The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt’s greatest natural resource.

          Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.

          The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.

          Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

          There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.

          Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

          Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.

          Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

          Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their land. The ownership of their land is still being fought for.

          Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

          Nineveh was never overthrown. Why? Because God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says about God never changing his mind.

          Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

          Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

          Christians say that this prophecy is was fulfilled when Judas received 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. Matthew 27:9 recites this verse, but incorrectly credits Jeremiah with the prophecy.

          Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

          Again, Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel (Immanuel).

          Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

          Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?

          Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

          There is no passage in the Old Testament that can be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.

          Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

          Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before his generation ended. That generation ended 2000 years ago, and the world has not come to an end, neither has all those signs been fulfilled.

          Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value.

          This prophecy was never spoken by Jeremiah.

          Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

          Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his second coming. The high priest is long dead, and Jesus hasn’t returned yet.

          “The abomination of desolation, in particular.”
          Citation needed. Given the other failed Bible prophecies, including Jesus promising to be back in the lifetime of his then-current followers, I have no reason to take these assertions seriously.

          ” It will come to pass.”
          Believers have been saying that for thousands of years, and it STILL HASN’T HAPPENED! You’re a liar and a fuckwit69.

          “Is doing “bad” things circular logic, from The boondocks?”
          Another non sequitur from a dumbfuck69 who doesn’t understand basic logic or logical fallacies. I already explained why your argument rests on circular logic, the fact that you’re too stupid to understand it is your problem, not mine.

        • Zeta

          You have an excellent collection of failed prophecies. One failed prophecy is sufficient to disprove the assertion from an unthinking and ignorant fool:

          “All the prophecies have been fullfilled”

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Thank you. I got them from here: http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm

        • Phil Rimmer

          That’s a fabulous (sic) resource. Ta!

        • Angel Rosas

          Miraim is a virgin. It still happened, and will come to pass. I’m not a liar, and you are. Passing the blame to others. It will come to pass, with God having delayed judgements so you would have mercy. “Bad things”, haha. You say it’s not my problem, but it’s actually yours. It;s yours. The high priest and the man who stabbed Jesus will see him again. The prophecies have been fulfilled, and will be fulfilled. You don’t want the truth. The truth has been fulfilled, and will be fulfilled again.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Miraim is a virgin.”
          No, she wasn’t. Virgin births are pure fiction.

          “It still happened, and will come to pass.”
          No, it didn’t happen, and it will not come to pass. More assertions.

          “I’m not a liar, and you are.” Fuck69 you, abortion69. You’ve been lying through your teeth the ENTIRE FUCKING69 TIME! You’ve lied about the Bible, about history, about providing evidence, and about addressing and refuting our arguments and logic. What have I lied about, dickcheese69?
          Also an ad hominem attack.

          “Passing the blame to others.”
          No, that’d be you and other Christians who like to blame Satan and demons for their crimes and “sins,” rather than take responsibility for themselves.

          “It will come to pass, with God having delayed judgements so you would have mercy.”
          Prove it. You’re already shown yourself to be an ignorant liar who hasn’t read the Bible. Nor have you backed up your claims. Why should I believe you? And Christians have been saying that “it’ll come to pass” for over 2,000 years, and it STILL HASN’T HAPPENED!

          ‘”Bad things”, haha.”
          Non sequitur.

          “You say it’s not my problem, but it’s actually yours. It;s yours.”
          Until you can prove it, it’s NOT MY PROBLEM! It’s yours. You’re the dumbfuck69 who came here to preach and convert us, but you will not back up your lies. Again, why should I believe you?

          “The high priest and the man who stabbed Jesus will see him again.”
          No, they won’t, because they’re dead and gone.

          “The prophecies have been fulfilled, and will be fulfilled.”
          No, they haven’t been fulfilled. I have already shown that you were wrong and a liar.

          “You don’t want the truth.”
          You haven’t given me the truth, just a bunch of useless religious garbage and assertions with no evidence.

          “The truth has been fulfilled, and will be fulfilled again.”
          Lies, assertions, and personal opinion. You have yet to show this assertion is true.

        • ORigel

          Like the failed prophecy in Ezekiel 26 that Tyre would be destroyed so that fishermen will spread their nets over the area where it once was?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I was thinking of that prophecy when I was writing my post earlier. I gave this liar a list of failed Bible prophecies, but I can’t remember if this prophecy was included.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not a failed prophecy. It has come to pass or will come to pass. As Peter says, “the creation still goes on from the beginning”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          So you’re saying it’s unfalsifiable?

          That makes it fiction, and worthless in the objective world.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it will come to pass. Fulfillment will come.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Your problem is that it’s supposed to ALREADY have taken place, according to your book, within the lifetimes of those who heard this ‘jesus’ character’s words direct from ‘his’ mouth.

          So either that’s a fail, or you’re being blatantly dishonest rather than admitting you’re wrong and were suckered.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but the truth.

        • Lark62

          Prophecies were fulfilled because people writing volume 2 of the fictional work had access to volume 1 of the fictional work.

          Or do consider the fulfilled prophecies in Lord of the Rings as proof that Gandalf rose from the dead?

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, the prophecies were fulfilled in reality. Where do the Jews come from and where are their works?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, the prophecies were fulfilled in reality.

          They’re all just stories. And those who wrote the ‘fulfillment’ knew of the earlier stories, so they could shape their fanfic to somewhat match the original. They failed, and were sloppy, but the intention is obvious.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but they’re coming along. The apostles were real, and seen the son of God. it’s a marvel.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but they’re being fulfilled. LIke the Ezekiel prophecy of “dead sea”. They’re continued from the past to now. Judaism for example survived with the temple being built, and azshekai jews coming along from the foreign tribes.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          The evidence is outside.

          Elsewhere, you assert that your ‘bible’ IS the ‘evidence’.

          Which is it? For 69fucking 69chrissakes, at least be *consistent* in your lies, you mental and emotional weakling.

        • Angel Rosas

          to be a weakling is like you, crumbling at the truth.

        • Artor

          Coming from someone who HAS read the Babble, your claim that it’s “all true” is nothing short of laughable. It contradicts itself in more places than I can count. It is not possible for it to be all true. It IS possible for it to be all false though, and it does a bang-up job of achieving that.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it is all true. You may say it does not go together, but that is in your mind. You’re meant to have faith, and see. With the Holy Spirit, you can interpret the messages and see the meaning of them. Even a 6 year old can do the same. Your mind not being able to interpret them does not detract from the work. It’s like a visual novel. You can argue for there to be flaws in it, but it still makes sense and does for together. The story is coherent even while you’re incoherent and I.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Your ‘bible’ says Tyre and Damascus will fall and NEVER be repopulated.

          There’s a blatant lie right there.

          But YOUR KIND will twist yourselves to mental harm rather than admit to it, right, spanky?

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it will never be repopulated. That will happen for sure.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Hint: that was supposed to happen TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

          It didn’t happen, and YOUR KIND aren’t allowed to stretch timelines just because reality is inconvenient to your lies.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, because it will happen. The messiah of Isaiah occured 7000 years after the prophecy, while the judaism prophecies will take a two thousand years to fulfill yet you’re willing to believe them when the AC comes and declares himself to be god with “aliens”. Amazing. Don’t believe it.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i would rather want the truth. that’s the truth of it. simple.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Really? All of the Bible is evidence? Does that include the thousands of contradictions that are contained in the Bible?

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, not contradictions but the truth instead.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          http://www.bibviz.com

          HERE are the contradictions.

          I’m looking forward to what pretzel shapes you’ll twist your dishonesty into trying to reconcile them.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it all goes together.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, skippy, your ‘bible’ is a mess of contradictions.

          The fact that you won’t even address it shows how well you realize it, and how afraid you are of that knowledge in your mind, because it means to YOUR KIND that you have an ‘impure heart’, and are thus ‘hell’-bound.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, because it’s the truth. to say i’m “hell” bound would mean to acknowledge the existence of hell. People will go to hell or heaven, later. You determine the rules of hell? You’re determining the existence of hell to your view, but Hell exists either way.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, it’s all true. read the Bible.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Uh, yes, they ARE contradictions, fuckwit69. And these contradict your assertions that the whole Bible is true, and that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but they’re true.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Yep. A contradiction is a contradiction is a contradiction. You can’t claim that the whole Bible is true, while there are a fuckton69 of contradictions in the Bible. ESPECIALLY when it’s on major points.

        • ORigel

          I was shocked at how much of an 69asshole Jesus was in the Gospels. That surprised me more than the myriad atrocities in the Old Testament including God threatening that if the Israelites do not follow Him, he will have them eat their children (Deuteronomy 28:53-57).

        • Angel Rosas

          How? Loving your neighbor. The list of punishments is specifically what would happen, and you would do worse things and allow for worse things to happen in your life. Sodom.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you cherry pick?

          Why not start with your *first* ‘commandment’? Or the second?

          And why did the same ‘god that said foreskins had to be cut off and pork was illegal STILL ALLOW AND SUPPORT SLAVERY AND THE *TAKING* OF SLAVES?

        • Angel Rosas

          slavery was how it was back then. To use men for slaves, and for work.

        • ORigel

          So YHWH, always happy to smite for trivial reasons like reaching out a hand to steady the Ark of the Covenant or ordering a census, was fine with 69slavery because that was what people did?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          List of biblical contradictions:
          GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
          GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn’t created until the fourth day.

          GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
          GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

          GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
          GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

          GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
          GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

          GE 1:26 Man is to have dominion over fish, birds, cattle, and all wild animals, yet–
          GE 2:15-17 It is wrong to be able to tell good from evil, right from wrong.

          GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
          GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

          GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
          LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

          GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
          GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
          (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience as well as with the fact that God allegedly does not change his mind: NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17.)

          GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as “the Lord” (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
          EX 6:2-3 God was first known as “the Lord” (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.

          GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
          GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

          GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
          HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

          GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel’s offering and has no regard for Cain’s.
          2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

          GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
          PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

          GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
          EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
          EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
          LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
          NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
          2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) “I called to the Lord; … he heard my voice; … The earth trembled and quaked, … because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it.”
          EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. “… who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him.”
          2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
          GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

        • Angel Rosas

          The tree of knowledge was a bad thing for us, but telling between good and bad is not necessarily bad. The biblical contradictions seem to be wrong, but just look at the Bible and read it again. It all goes in order. The light does not necessarily have to be the “sun”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          The tree of knowledge was a bad thing for us

          Then why did, according to the story, your ‘god’ put it right where people could get to it?

          Why was this ‘god’, in the story, so incompetent that it didn’t instruct the woman *directly* to leave the tree alone, merely assuming that the man would tell her? Isn’t your ‘god’ supposedly omniscient? It HAD to know that if it failed to instruct the woman that what the story claims to have happened *would* happen. That makes your ‘god’ an 69asshole for setting the man and woman up to FAIL, then blaming THEM for it….y’know, like your religious leaders do to you idiot walking-wallet pew-warmers.

          It seems you’ve internalized a LOT of this shame they’ve laid on you, and it’s obvious you’re compensating by defending irrational ideas to ‘appear’ sufficiently fervent.

        • Angel Rosas

          Free will. You made the choice, and this is what happened. You needed grace, and a savior.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Free will.

          That would mean your ‘god’ is a bad parent.

          If a *human* parent left a baby that didn’t know better around a bunch of brightly colored poisons, with only instruction to NOT eat them, society would call Child Protective Services to take the child away and punish the parent(s).

          YOUR KIND are so 69fucked up that you glorify this willful irresponsibility because you’ve been taught to FEAR the irresponsible ‘entity’ that acted in such a fashion, because your book also says that such nasty irresponsibility is the BEST humanity can expect from it.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, society would not call. here, was the tree of fruit of knowledge and adam and eve took it. it was not brightly colored poison, but a cosmic act. Taking poison morally is literally different from taking poison of mushrooms. Morality.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Free will.

          According to your book, WHO designed humanity with ‘free will’?

          In fact, per the story, we’re ‘designed’ IN THE IMAGE of your ‘god’.

          so your ‘god’ can’t be perfect, because it either designed a copy of itself that failed, or *purposely* left the humans in a condition that it HAD to know would lead to failure, as the ‘god’ itself would have succumbed.

        • If we truly were in the image of god, shouldn’t we all be invisible?

        • Greg G.

          I can’t see you.

        • Angel Rosas

          Free-will. You want a place of degeneracy, likely.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Those bullshit69 assertions have been debunked and refuted. You’re just desperate.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, but i tell the truth. You don’t want it.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you’re a liar who hasn’t came CLOSE to giving us “the Truth.” Just a bunch of assertions.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, you’re still dumb.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That’s *rich*, coming from an adolescent loser.

          Why don’t you try to make something of yourself rather than feebly attempting to tear others down? Tearing down is *weak*, building up is both difficult and *strong*.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, that was a bad thing for us. Building up, in a lie. To tear down and let the base carry you is far better than building up on sand. To rest and abide in the word of God builds a strong foundation.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, that was a bad thing for us.

          Then YOU are sinning, right now, by willfully having learned to read, and to use a computer, and to clothe and dress yourself.

          And your sins are a *choice*, as you could choose to live as your book says the first man and woman did, without language or technology.

          I find it downright funny that you have this idea that you’re building brownie points in your superstition when you’re just driving yourself to your ‘hell’ with your methods and tools.

        • Angel Rosas

          how? You choose to morally sin. To go against God and sin against him is grievous. You choose to sin, that’s the thing.

        • Angel Rosas

          Did the isralities sin with their clothes? No, because it was a choice by God and we’re allowed to use nature and technology for our own uses.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Ad hominem attack from a kkkunt69 with no argument.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but telling the truth. Telling what you are isn’t a bad thing.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Yeah, it WAS an ad hominem attack, dingleberry pie. And again, you liar, you have yet to provide any “Truth,” nor have you given evidence. And you haven’t “told me what I am,” you arrogant dickcheese69 nacho Nazi prick69.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
          GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
          NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

          GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
          NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.

          GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah’s Ark.
          GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken, and are taken, aboard the Ark.

          GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
          JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
          LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
          JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
          1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
          RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.

          GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
          GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).

          GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
          PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.

          GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
          1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.

          GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
          LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.

          GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
          GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
          GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.

          GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
          EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God’s face and live. No one has ever seen him.

          GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
          GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

          GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
          JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.

          GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
          HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.

          GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
          JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.

          GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
          GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.

          GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an “everlasting possession.”
          GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.

          GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God’s blessings.
          LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

          GE 18:20-21 God decides to “go down” to see what is going on.
          PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

          GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot’s two daughters “lie with him,” become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
          2PE 2:7 Lot was “just” and “righteous.”

          GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
          JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
          1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
          JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.

          GE 27:28 “May God give you … an abundance of grain and new wine.”
          DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
          PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
          JE 13:12 “… every bottle shall be filled with wine.”
          JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus’ first miracle was turning water to wine.
          RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine.

          GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel.
          GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob.

          GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.
          GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz.
          1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek.

          GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
          RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.)

          GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite.
          AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor.

          EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
          NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.

          EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
          EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor.

          EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc.
          2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, because giants somehow came back. We are righteous in our sight, but in we’re need of a own savior. To be righteous in God’s eyes requires his sacrifice. The only blood shed of the lamb will clean us.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Yes, because giants somehow came back.”
          If the giants came back, then the Bible is being inconsistent and contradictory. It also shows that God isn’t as powerful as believers assert.

          ‘We are righteous in our sight, but in we’re need of a own savior. To be righteous in God’s eyes requires his sacrifice. The only blood shed of the lamb will clean us.”
          More incoherent religious garbage with no evidence.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but the giants came back. incoherent? You know it, but you deny. You don’t believe. Full of pride. You need to believe.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “nope, but the giants came back.”
          That’s at the heart of the problem. The Bible says that they were all killed in the flood, while another part says that some survived. That’s the contradiction.

          GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
          GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
          NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

          “You know it, but you deny.”
          Such arrogance from a crybaby snowflake who can’t back up his claims. And I’m not “denying” anything. I’m “denying” your God like you deny Zeus, Odin, or Ra.

          “You don’t believe.”
          Well, duh! I’m an atheist on an atheist website. What the fuck69 was your first clue, doofus?

          “Full of pride.”
          Bullshit69. Not believing on your fairy tales doesn’t make me “full of pride.” Using your logic, you’re “full of pride” because you don’t believe in Zeus. You can’t have it both ways, you hypocritical dipshit69.

          “You need to believe.”
          No, what I “need” is evidence, not Bible verses and assertions.

        • ORigel

          Hate to agree with him here, but Nephilim were given in the false report the ten spies gave. And angels could have 69mated with human women to produce more giants.

          This doesn’t make all the other contradictions go away.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          This is the problem, as I see it.
          GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
          GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
          NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
          It’s claimed that there were giants before the Flood, the Flood happened and killed everything, yet these giants are still around. Note that the Bible doesn’t say that humans and angels were mating AFTER the Flood, but BEFORE it. So, God must’ve missed them, contradicting the claim that the Flood killed everything on the planet except those on the Ark. Although it DOES raise the question of where the giants later in the Bible come from. Are they giants that God missed, or are they a later, seperate generation of Nephilim? So, you may or may not be correct. It’s hard to say for sure.

        • ORigel

          There were not Nephilim there (they lied about giants living in the land) but descendants of the Nephilim (the sons of Anak), which would have either managed to survive the Flood or come from a second generation of Nephilim.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
          EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
          EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
          EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.

          EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and “pass over” them.
          PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.

          EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt.
          1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time.

          EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war–he is fierce and angry.
          RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace.

          EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary).
          GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary).

          EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever.
          EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images.

          EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent’s sins.
          DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent’s sins.

          EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions.
          MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath).
          RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance.

          EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.
          MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man’s foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
          MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.

          EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
          GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
          EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
          2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.
          (Note: See Atrocities section for many more examples.)

          EX 20:14 God prohibits adultery.
          HO 1:2 God instructs Hosea to “take a wife of harlotry.”

          EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
          MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.

          EX 23:7 God prohibits the killing of the innocent.
          NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3 God orders or approves the complete extermination of groups of people which include innocent women and/or children.
          (Note: See Atrocities section for many other examples of the killing of innocents.)

          EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
          NU 14:30 God breaks his promise.

          EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
          1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

          EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
          2TH 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

          EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
          IS 45:6-7, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

          EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
          JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

          LE 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat.
          MT 15:11, CN 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don’t matter–they are only human injunctions.

          LE 19:18, MT 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself.
          1CO 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself.

          LE 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes.
          MT 26:65, MK 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus.

          LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
          MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.

          NU 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin.
          HE 10:11 They never take away sin.

          NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
          1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.

          NU 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths).
          MT 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil).

          NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
          DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.

          NU 33:41-42 After Aaron’s death, the Israelites journeyed from Mt. Hor, to Zalmonah, to Punon, etc.
          DT 10:6-7 It was from Mosera, to Gudgodah, to Jotbath.

          DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
          MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.

          DT 7:9-10 God destroys his enemies.
          MT 5:39-44 Do not resist your enemies. Love them.

          DT 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required.
          EZ 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required.

          DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
          IS 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards.

          DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
          MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

          DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
          MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.

          DT 24:16, 2KI 14:6, 2CH 25:4, EZ 18:20 Children are not to suffer for their parent’s sins.
          RO 5:12, 19, 1CO 15:22 Death is passed to all men by the sin of Adam.

          DT 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law.
          RO 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law.

          JS 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
          LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful.

          JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
          JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.

          JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
          JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb’s daughter, Achsah.

          1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
          PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.

          1SA 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines.
          1SA 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul.
          1SA 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines.

          1SA 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed.
          1SA 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?).
          1SA 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?).

          1SA 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total.
          1CH 2:13-15 He had seven total.

          1SA 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter’s encounter with Goliath.
          1SA 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David’s identity.

          1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
          1SA 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword.

          1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath.
          2SA 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words “the brother of” before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.)

          1SA 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread.
          MK 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time.

          1SA 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer.
          1CH 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord.

          1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
          2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
          2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
          1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, it all goes together. Actually look at the meaning, and see. The blood on the doorposts were simply for a marker. A marker for the angel of death.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Yes, it all goes together.

          You can keep spouting grandiose lies, and we’ll keep on laughing at your ineptitude. OR, you could actually try to defend your assertions with *details* …it looks like you either are ignorant of your own book, or *aren’t* ignorant and realize that details will show you’re wrong, so that’s why you refuse to provide them.

        • Angel Rosas

          The lies are numerous, and they’re false. It is a lie. It’s a list of false assumptions.

        • Bob Jase

          Yeah, the omnipotent omniscient god is lost w/o post-it notes.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          In rainbow colors! 😉

        • Angel Rosas

          God wanted the israelities to mark themselves. What would you want a omnipotent god to do anyways? To please your desires at everyturn?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Uh, no, it DOESN’T go together. You’re just desperate to explain away the contradictions.

        • Angel Rosas

          It does go together, but you don’t want to explain it. Read your bible.

        • ORigel

          Explain its true context, citing chapter and verse.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You have once again proven yourself a liar, because I ALREADY ADDRESSED IT! And I HAVE read the Bible, unlike you, liar.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
          1KI 15:5 David’s only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.

          2SA 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property.
          1CH 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold.

          1KI 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet ….
          1KI 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God’s explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death).

          1KI 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2CH 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him.
          MT 12:42, LK 11:31 Jesus says: “… now one greater than Solomon is here.”

          1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
          2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).

          1KI 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors.
          2CH 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors.

          1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
          2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.

          1KI 7:26 Solomon’s “molten sea” held 2000 “baths” (1 bath = about 8 gallons).
          2CH 4:5 It held 3000 “baths.”

          1KI 8:12, 2CH 6:1, PS 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness.
          1TI 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light.

          1KI 8:13, AC 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God.
          AC 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men.

          1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
          2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.

          1KI 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places.
          2CH 14:2-3 He did remove them.

          1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa’s reign.
          2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa’s reign.

          1KI 16:23 Omri became king in the thirty-first year of Asa’s reign and he reigned for a total of twelve years.
          1KI 16:28-29 Omri died, and his son Ahab became king in the thirty- eighth year of Asa’s reign. (Note: Thirty-one through thirty-eight equals a reign of seven or eight years.)

          1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, 2TH 2:11 God himself causes a lying spirit.
          PR 12:22 God abhors lying lips and delights in honesty.

          1KI 22:42-43 Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places.
          2CH 17:5-6 He did remove them.

          2KI 2:11 Elijah went up to heaven.
          JN 3:13 Only the Son of Man (Jesus) has ever ascended to heaven.
          2CO 12:2-4 An unnamed man, known to Paul, went up to heaven and came back.
          HE 11:5 Enoch was translated to heaven.

          2KI 4:32-37 A dead child is raised (well before the time of Jesus).
          MT 9:18-25, JN 11:38-44 Two dead persons are raised (by Jesus himself).
          AC 26:23 Jesus was the first to rise from the dead.

          2KI 8:25-26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign.
          2CH 22:2 He was 42 when he began his reign.
          [Note: Some translations use “twenty-two” here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong’s H705 and H8147, “forty” and “two,” respectively.]

          2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there.
          2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death.

          2KI 16:5 The King of Syria and the son of the King of Israel did not conquer Ahaz.
          2CH 28:5-6 They did conquer Ahaz.

          2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
          2CH 36:9 He was eight.
          (Note: This discrepancy has been “corrected” in some versions.)

          2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) reigned three months.
          2CH 36:9 He reigned three months and ten days.

          2KI 24:17 Jehoiachin (Jehoaikim) was succeeded by his uncle.
          2CH 36:10 He was succeeded by his brother.

          1CH 3:11-13 The lineage is: Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham.
          MT 1:8-9 It is: Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, etc.

          1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
          ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.

          2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 There is no injustice or partiality with the Lord.
          RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on (and hardens the hearts of) whom he pleases.

          ER 2:3-64 (Gives the whole congregation as 42,360 while the actual sum of the numbers is about 30,000.)

          JB 2:3-6, 21:7-13, 2TI 3:12 The godly are persecuted and chastised but the wicked grow old, wealthy, and powerful, unchastised by God.
          PS 55:23, 92:12-14, PR 10:2-3, 27-31, 12:2, 21 The lives of the wicked are cut short. The righteous flourish and obtain favor from the Lord.

          PS 10:1 God cannot be found in time of need. He is “far off.”
          PS 145:18 God is near to all who call upon him in truth.

          PS 22:1-2 God sometimes forsakes his children. He does not answer.
          PS 46:1 God is a refuge, a strength, a very present help.

          PS 30:5, JE 3:12, MI 7:18 God’s anger does not last forever.
          JE 17:4, MT 25:46 It does last forever. (He has provided for eternal punishment.)

          PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance.
          PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles.

          PS 78:69, EC 1:4, 3:14 The earth was established forever.
          PS 102:25-26, MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33, HE 1:10-11, 2PE 3:10 The earth will someday perish.

          PR 3:13, 4:7, 19:8, JA 1:5 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom.
          LK 2:40, 52 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God.
          1CO 1:19-25, 3:18-20 Wisdom is foolishness.

          PR 12:2, RO 8:28 A good man obtains favor from the Lord.
          2TI 3:12, HE 12:6 The godly will be persecuted.

          PR 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way.
          MT 6:25-34 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.

          PR 14:15-18 The simple believe everything and acquire folly; the prudent look where they are going and are crowned with knowledge.
          MT 18:3, LK 18:17 You must believe as little children do.
          1CO 1:20, 27 God has made the wisdom of the world foolish so as to shame the wise.
          PR 16:4 God made the wicked for the “day of evil.”
          MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 God and Jesus hide some things from some people.
          JN 6:65 No one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by God.
          RO 8:28-30 Some are predestined to be called to God, believe in Jesus, and be justified.
          RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on, and hardens the hearts of, whom he pleases.
          2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked so as to be able to condemn them.
          1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 [Yet] God wants all to be saved.

          PR 8:13, 16:6 It is the fear of God that keeps men from evil.
          1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear.
          1JN 5:2, 2JN 1:6 Those who love God keep his commandments.

          PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too.
          PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don’t, he will think himself wise.

          PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
          JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word of God.
          JE 20:7, EZ 14:9, 2TH 2:11-12 God himself deceives people.
          (Note: Some versions translate deceive as “persuade.” The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it all fits together. Jesus was “Immanuel” and specifically referred to as such. All the prophcies will be fulfilled as saint Peter says “creation still goes on from the beginning”. Damascus may have been very well destroyed before and rebuilt, but it will be destroyed later on. It’s a sophisticated meaning.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Still worthless without *details* of how YOU claim it ‘all fits together’.

          The only place it ‘all fits together’ is in your twisted, terrified psyche, and you’re attacking us because you don’t dare face your own doubts.

          Do you think we can’t see this?

        • Angel Rosas

          No, because it all faces together. The truth has led me here, and will lead me. Only liars will face their “doubts”, and have a lie instead of the truth. There are no lies, because I have the truth. I faced the truth, and will have instead of a lie. I will have it, instead of a lie.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “No, it all fits together.”
          No, it doesn’t. You’re just desperate.

          “Jesus was “Immanuel” and specifically referred to as such.”
          No, he wasn’t. I gave you Bible verses that show otherwise, liar.

          “All the prophcies will be fulfilled as saint Peter says “creation still goes on from the beginning”.”
          I gave you a list of failed Bible prophecies which prove you wrong, liar. Even one not being fulfilled contradicts your lies, dickhead69.

          “Damascus may have been very well destroyed before and rebuilt, but it will be destroyed later on.”
          Citation needed, liar. There’s no evidence for this claim.

          “It’s a sophisticated meaning.”
          IOW, we should accept your idiotic69 interpretation, even though you haven’t read the Bible and have no idea what the fuck69 you’re talking about.

        • Angel Rosas

          I just did. Matthew states as much. The list of bible prophecies not being fulfilled is a show of what will come. Damascus may very well have been destroyed before and rebuilt, and will be destroyed. Jesus is the son of God. i have the read the bible and you haven’t. You pull from a list of sources, but are incorrect. The Lord rebuke thee.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “I just did.”
          No, you didn’t.

          “Matthew states as much.”
          Sure he does, liar. You haven’t read the Bible, so excuse me if I don’t accept this on its face.

          “The list of bible prophecies not being fulfilled is a show of what will come.”
          No, it’s a weak handwave & excuse to try and cover your ass69 because I proved you wrong. You said that ALL the prophecies had been fulfilled, I showed otherwise. You’re a liar who refuses to admit that you’re wrong and don’t have the slightest fucking69 clue about what you’re talking about.

          “Damascus may very well have been destroyed before and rebuilt, and will be destroyed.”
          But that’s not what the Bible says. Damascus has never been completely destroyed or uninhabited, and is STILL inhabited today, making this a false prophecy.

          “Jesus is the son of God.”
          No, he’s not. This has been addressed elsewhere.

          “i have the read the bible and you haven’t.”
          It’s ABUNDANTLY clear to myself and everyone here that you HAVEN’T read the Bible, but I HAVE. You’re a liar who is STUNNINGLY ignorant of the holy book that you PRETEND to follow. You have again demonstrated that you’re a liar and a fatmouth.

          “You pull from a list of sources, but are incorrect.”
          How? How the fuck69 am I incorrect? You say that I’m wrong, but you haven’t given a reason for that claim. You’re just a crybaby throwing a hissy fit.

          “The Lord rebuke thee.”
          And may Harry Potter give you a severe and uncontrollable case of acne.

        • Angel Rosas

          The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Different contexts. They have stories but in different places.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re worthless if you can’t provide *precise* quotations and context.

          Admit it, you’re just here for the attention you crave that those around you deny you *because* you’re such a flaming 69asshole that they shun you and will go out of their way to leave you to fall alone.

        • Angel Rosas

          Precise? The quotations you provided are inaccurate. God left the temple, because he would no longer dwell in temples made by human hands. He left Solomon and returned as the holy Spirit and as Jesus. He is the 3rd temple. I fall alone in God, and walk alone.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          When you ‘object’, but refuse to include WHAT you’re objecting to, that’s purposely vague, to try to throw your ‘opponent’ on defense.

          Either explain clearly and with reference what you object to or lose the point.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You said that all of the Bible was true, but you decided to ignore all the contradictions which show this claim to be a joke. You also didn’t address my post at all.

        • Angel Rosas

          Read the Bible.

        • ORigel

          Clearly they have.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I have, unlike you, liar. That’s why I rejected it and am now an atheist.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          IS 3:13 God stands to judge.
          JL 3:12 He sits to judge.

          IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone.
          JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation.

          IS 53:9 Usually taken to be a prophecy re: Jesus, mentions burial with others.
          MT 27:58-60, MK 15:45-46, LK 23:52-53, JN 19:38-42 Jesus was buried by himself.

          JE 12:13 Some sow wheat but reap thorns.
          MI 6:15 Some sow but won’t reap anything.
          MT 25:26, LK 19:22 Some reap without sowing.
          2CO 9:6, GA 6:7 A man reaps what he sows.

          JE 32:18 God shows love to thousands, but brings punishment for the sins of their fathers to many children.
          2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.

          JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace.
          JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih’s sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.

          EZ 20:25-26 The law was not good. The sacrifice of children was for the purpose of horrifying the people so that they would know that God is Lord.
          RO 7:12, 1TI 1:8 The law is good.

          EZ 26:15-21 God says that Tyre will be destroyed and will never be found again.
          (Nebudchanezzar failed to capture or destroy Tyre. It is still inhabited.)

          DN 5:1 (Gives the title of “king” to Belshazzar although Belshazzar was actually the “viceroy.”)

          DN 5:2 (Says that Nebuchadnezzar was the father of Belshazzar, but actually, Nebonidus was the father of Belshazzar.) (Note: Some versions attempt to correct this error by making the verse say that Nebuchadnezzar was the grandfather of Belshazzar.)

          ZE 11:12-13 Mentions “thirty pieces” and could possibly be thought to be connected with the Potter’s Field prophesy referred to in Matthew.
          MT 27:9 Jeremiah is given as the source of the prophesy regarding the purchase of the Potter’s Field. (Note: There is no such prophesy in Jeremiah.)

          MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David’s son, Solomon.
          LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David’s son, Nathan.
          (Note: Some apologists assert that Luke traces the lineage through Mary. That this is untrue is obvious from the context since Luke and Matthew both clearly state that Joseph was Jesus’ father.)

          MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph’s father.
          LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph’s father.

          MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.
          LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three.

          MT 1:20 The angel spoke to Joseph.
          LK 1:28 The angel spoke to Mary.

          MT 1:20-23, LK 1:26-33 An angel announces to Joseph and/or Mary that the child (Jesus) will be “great,” the “son of the Most High,” etc., and ….
          MT 3:13-17, MK 1:9-11 The baptism of Jesus is accompanied by the most extraordinary happenings, yet ….
          MK 3:21 Jesus’ own relatives (or friends) attempt to constrain him, thinking that he might be out of his mind, and ….
          MK 6:4-6 Jesus says that a prophet is without honor in his own house (which certainly should not have been the case considering the Annunciation and the Baptism).

          MT 1:23 He will be called Emmanuel (or Immanuel).
          MT 1:25 Instead, he was called Jesus.

          MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod’s death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus’ cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
          LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.

          MT 2:23 “And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene.'” (This prophecy is not found in the OT and while Jesus is often referred to as “Jesus of Nazareth”, he is seldom referred to as “Jesus the Nazarene.”)

          MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John’s baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
          MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.

          MT 3:12, 13:42 Hell is a furnace of fire (and must therefore be light).
          MT 8:12, 22:13, 25:30 Hell is an “outer darkness” (and therefore dark).

          MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending.
          JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending.

          MT 3:17 The heavenly voice addressed the crowd: “This is my beloved Son.”
          MK 1:11, LK 3:22 The voice addressed Jesus: “You are my beloved Son….”

          MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil.
          JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana.

          MT 4:5-8 The Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top.
          LK 4:5-9 First to the mountain top, then to the pinnacle of the temple.

          MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.)
          LK 5:2-11 (A different story.)
          JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.)

          MT 5:1 – 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount.
          LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.)

          MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
          MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.

          MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus underscores the permanence of the law.
          LE 10:8 – 11:47, DT 14:3-21 The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods.
          MK 7:14-15, MK 7:18-19 Jesus says that there is no such distinction.
          1TI 4:1-4 All foods are clean according to Paul.

          MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
          EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.

          MT 5:22 Anyone who calls another a fool is liable to Hell.
          MT 7:26 Jesus says that anyone who hears his words and does not do them is a fool. (Note: The translation now prevalent, “like a foolish man,” in MT 7:26 is a dishonest attempt to alleviate the obvious inconsistency here in that the oldest Greek manuscripts use the same Greek word translated “fool” in MT 5:22 and “like a foolish man” in MT 7:26.)
          MT 23:17-19 Jesus twice calls the Pharisees blind fools.
          MT 25:2, 3, 8 Jesus likens the maidens who took no oil to fools. (Note: This is the same Greek word translated “fool” in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
          1CO 1:23, 3:18, 4:10 Paul uses “fool” with regard to Christians becoming fools for Christ. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated “fool” in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)

        • Angel Rosas

          Is Jesus God? The foods are meant to be taken with Thanksgiving, with the law being fulfilled in Christ. Our good works are but filthy rags for God, with only his works being laid out for us. “Fool”? Where do you get that from? The “oldest manuscripts”? Check the other manuscripts. The oldest should be in conjunction with the others.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re worthless without precise citations.

          And you’re an attention 69whore.

          I’d pity you if you weren’t so loathsome.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You once again fail to address my post and post irrelevant, nonsensical garbage instead. And no, Jesus wasn’t God OR the Messiah.

        • Angel Rosas

          Jesus was God, and the Messiah. You don;t want to admit the truth. The hospital being used as a place for robbers or thieves would justify it being removed. The morals of the robbers were at stake. Want the truth instead of the world?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Jesus was God, and the Messiah.”
          No, he wasn’t. I already gave you failed Bible prophecies, some of which addressed the prophecies that Jesus is ALLEGED to have fulfilled. But I’ll do you one better and give you the Jewish view on Jesus, from a rabbi: https://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html?mobile=yes

          “You don;t want to admit the truth.”
          What “truth?” All you’ve given me is opinions, assertions, and religious nonsense that I rejected a long time ago.
          The rest of your post is a incoherent non sequitur.

        • Greg G.

          I am still laughing at how he addressed one verse in a list of contradictions but misread the verse.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          That sounds about right for this loser. His posts are basically “DERP DERPITY DERP!”

        • DeadBabyJoke

          MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
          EP 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin.

          MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
          MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works.
          MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season.
          MK 3:5 Jesus looks around “angrily.”

          MT 5:32 Divorce, except on the grounds of unchastity, is wrong.
          MK 10:11-12 Divorce on any grounds is wrong.

          MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Jesus says: “Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.”
          MT 6:15, 12:34, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 17, 19, 27, 29, 33, MK 7:6, LK 11:40, 44, 12:56 Jesus repeatedly hurls epithets at his opponents.

          MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
          LK 19:27 God is likened to one who destroys his enemies.

          MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
          2JN 1:9-11 Shun anyone who does not hold the proper doctrine.
          MT 5:43-44, MT 22:39 Love your enemies. Love your neighbor as yourself.
          MT 10:5 Go nowhere among the Gentiles nor enter a Samaritan town.
          JN 8:58-59 Jesus hid himself, apparently to avoid being stoned.

          MT 5:45, 7:21 God resides in heaven.
          MK 13:32 The angels reside in heaven
          AC 7:55, HE 12:2 Jesus is at the right hand of God, in heaven.
          1PE 1:3-4 Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven.
          MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33 Heaven will pass away.

          MT 6:13 God might lead us into temptation and it is better avoided.
          JA 1:2-3 Temptation is joy.

          MT 6:13 Jesus’ prayer implies that God might lead us into temptation.
          JA 1:13 God tempts no one.

          MT 6:25-34, LK 12:22-31 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
          1TI 5:8 A man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. (Note: Providing for a family certainly involves taking “thought for tomorrow.”)

          MT 7:1-2 Do not judge.
          MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet.

          MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you will find.
          LK 13:24 Many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable.

          MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
          AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
          AC 2:39 Those God calls to himself will be saved.

          MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
          JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.

          MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
          LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.

          MT 8:16, LK 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick.
          MK 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all).

          MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident.
          MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident.

          MT 9:18 The ruler’s daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her.
          LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead.

          MT 10:1-8 Jesus gives his disciples the power to exorcise and heal…
          MT 17:14-16 (Yet) the disciples are unable to do so.

          MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot.
          LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains).
          AC 1:13, 26 Same as MT and MK except that, like LK Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, Judas the son of James is included, and Mathias is chosen by the others to replace Judas Iscariot.

          MT 10:2, 5-6 Peter was to be an apostle to the Jews and not go near the Gentiles.
          AC 15:7 He was an apostle to the Gentiles.

          MT 10:10 Do not take sandals (shoes) or staves.
          MK 6:8-9 Take sandals (shoes) and staves.

          MT 10:34, LK 12:49-53 Jesus has come to bring a sword, fire, and division–not peace.
          JN 16:33 Jesus says: “In me you have peace.”

          MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved.
          MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved.
          JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
          AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.
          AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
          RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved.
          1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.)

          MT 10:28, LK 12:4 Jesus says not to fear men. (Fear God only.)
          MT 12:15-16, JN 7:1-10, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54 Jesus hid, escaped, went secretly, etc.

          MT 11:7-15, 17:12-13 Jesus says that John the Baptist was a prophet, and more.
          JN 1:21 John himself says that he is not a prophet, nor is he Elijah.

          MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 Jesus thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to “babes.” He says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain hidden to at least some persons, and specifically so that they will not turn and be forgiven.
          MK 4:22 Jesus says that all things should be made known.

          MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly).
          JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.)

          MT 12:5 Jesus says that the law (OT) states that the priests profane the Sabbath but are blameless. (No such statement is found in the OT.

          MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him.
          MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him.
          (Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the “for him” category in the first instance and in the “against him” category in the second instance.)

          MT 12:39, MK 8:12, LK 11:29 Jesus says that he will give no “sign.”
          JN 3:2, 20:30, AC 2:22 Jesus proceeds to give many such “signs.”

          MT 13:34, MK 4:34 Jesus addresses the crowds only in parables, so that they would not fully understand. He explains the meaning only to his disciples.
          JN 1:1 – 21:25 (Throughout the book of John, unlike the other Gospels, Jesus addresses the crowds in a very straightforward manner. He does not employ parables.)

          MT 13:58, MK 6:5 In spite of his faith, Jesus is not able to perform mighty miracles.
          MT 17:20, 19:26, MK 9:23, 10:27, LK 17:6, 18:27 Jesus says that anything is possible to him who believes if he has the faith of a grain of mustard seed. All things are possible with God. A mountain can be commanded to move and it will move.

          MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain “yes” or “no,” that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil.
          JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words “not yet” were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.)

          MT 16:6, 11 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
          MK 8:15 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod.

          MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
          MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] “Satan” and “a hindrance,” and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God.

          MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
          AC 15:1-21 James presides over the first Council of Jerusalem and formulates the decree regarding the accepting of Gentiles which is sent to the other churches. (Note: Tradition has it that James was appointed as the first Bishop or Pope, not Peter.)

          MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
          LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

          MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
          MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

          MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
          MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

          MT 20:29-34 Jesus heals two blind men on the way to Jericho.
          MK 10:46-52 He heals one blind man.

          MT 21:1-17 The sequence was: triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, Bethany.
          MK 11:1-19 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple.
          LK 19:28-48 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, daily teaching in the temple.
          JN 12:1-18 Cleansing of the temple (early in his career), Supper with Lazarus, triumphal entry, no cleansing of the temple following the triumphal entry.

        • Angel Rosas

          God changes the money changers, since they were making the temple of God into a house of thieves.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          God changes the money changers, since they were making the temple of God into a house of thieves.

          Book / chapter / verse, then.

          I think you’re just making up your religion to make yourself feel good, and important, and believe you deserve attention.

        • Angel Rosas

          It’s right there. The only one God makes worthy is through his only Son, the begotten son of God. John 2:15, and Jesus is the Son of God. You have the anti-Christ spirit.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Irrelevant. You didn’t address my point whatsoever. You have to be one of the worst and dumbest fundies that I’ve ever had the misfortune to cross.

        • Angel Rosas

          Irrelevant? It’s the simple truth. Using the temple for a place for money lending, and changing of money is worse than having there at all. A hospital full of merchants would be a bad place.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          First, when I said it was irrelevant, I was specifically referring to the claim that there were no contradictions.
          Second, the episode in the Temple IS a contradiction.

          MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly).
          JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.)
          You can’t claim that he’s gentle, meek, or humble when he does things like that. That’s a contradiction. A minor one, but it’s STILL a contradiction.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT).
          JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself.

          MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry.
          MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved.

          MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus’ career.
          JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career.

          MT 21:19-20 The fig tree withers immediately after being cursed by Jesus. The disciples notice and are amazed.
          MK 11:13-14, 20-21 The disciples first notice that the tree has withered the day following.

          MT 23:35 Jesus says that Zacharias (Zechariah) was the son of Barachias (Barachiah).
          2CH 24:20 Zacharias was actually the son of Jehoida, the priest.
          (Note: The name Barachias, or Barachiah, does not appear in the O.T.)

          MT 24:29-33, MK 13:24-29 The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles.
          LK 17:20-21 It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles. It is already within.

          MT 25:34 Heaven was prepared before the Ascension of Jesus.
          JN 14:2-3 It was prepared after the Ascension of Jesus.

          MT 26:6-13, MK 14:3 The anointing of Jesus takes place in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper.
          LK 7:36-38 It takes place at the house of a Pharisee in Galilee.

          MT 26:7, MK 14:3 The oil is poured on Jesus’ head.
          LK 7:38, JN 12:3 On his feet.

          MT 26:7, MK 14:3, LK 7:37 An unnamed woman does the anointing.
          JN 12:3 It is Mary.

          MT 28:6-8 The women ran from the tomb “with great joy.”
          JN 20:1-2 Mary told Peter and the other disciple that the body had been stolen. (Would she feel “great joy” if she thought the body had been stolen?)

          MT 26:8 The disciples reproach her.
          MK 14:4 “Some” reproach her.
          JN 12:4-5 Judas Iscariot reproaches her.

          MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal.
          JN 13:21-30 After the meal.

          MT 26:20-29, MK 14:17-28, JN 13:21-30 Jesus forecasts his betrayal prior to the communion portion of the supper.
          LK 22:14-23 After the communion portion.

          MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine.
          LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread.

          MT 26:34, LK 22:34, JN 13:38 Peter was to deny Jesus before the cock crowed.
          MK 14:30 Before the cock crowed twice.
          MK 14:66-72 The cock crows after both the first and second denials.
          (Note: These discrepancies have been “translated out” in some Bible versions.)

          MT 26:40-45, MK 14:37-41 The disciples fall asleep three times.
          LK 22:45 One time.

          MT 26:49-50, MK 14:44-46 Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss, then seized.
          LK 22:47-48 Jesus anticipates Judas’ kiss. No actual kiss is mentioned.
          JN 18:2-9 Jesus voluntarily steps forward to identify himself making it completely unnecessary for Judas to point him out. No kiss is mentioned.

          MT 26:51, MK 14:47, JN 18:10 The ear of a slave is cut off and left that way.
          LK 22:50-51 The severed ear is miraculously healed by Jesus.

          MT 26:52 Dispose of swords. All who take the sword will perish by it.
          LK 22:36-38 Buy swords.

          MT 26:57, MK 14:53, LK 22:54 After his arrest Jesus is first taken to Caiphas, the high priest.
          JN 18:13-24 First to Annas, the son-in-law of Caiphas, then to Caiphas.

          MT 26:18-20, 57-68, 27:1-2, MK 14:16-18, 53-72, 15:1 Jesus’ initial hearing was at night on Passover. In the morning he was taken to Pilate.
          LK 22:13-15, 54-66 The initial hearing took place in the morning on Passover.
          JN 18:28, 19:14 It took place the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation.

          MT 26:59-66, MK 14:55-64 Jesus was tried by the entire Sanhedrin (the chief priests and the whole council).
          LK 22:66-71 There was no trial but merely an inquiry held by the Sanhedrin.
          JN 18:13-24 There was no appearance before the Sanhedrin, only the private hearings before Annas and then Caiphas.

          MT 26:63, LK 22:70 The high priest asks Jesus if he is the Son of God.
          MK 14:61 He asks Jesus if he is the Son of the Blessed.

          MT 26:64, LK 22:70 Jesus answers: “You have said so,” or words to this effect.
          MK 14:62 He answers directly: “I am.”

          MT 26:69-70 Peter makes his first denial to a maid and “them all.”
          MK 14:66-68, LK 22:56-57, JN 18:17 It was to one maid only.

          MT 26:71-72 Peter’s second denial is to still another maid.
          MK 14:69-70 (Apparently) to the same maid.
          LK 22:58 To a man, not a maid.
          JN 18:25 To more than one, “they.”

          MT 26:73-74, MK 14:70-71 Peter’s third denial is to bystanders (two or more).
          LK 22:59-60 To “another” (one).
          JN 18:26-27 To one of the servants.

          MT 26:74 The cock crowed once.
          MK 14:72 The cock crowed twice.

          MT 27:3-7 The chief priests bought the field.
          AC 1:16-19 Judas bought the field.

          MT 27:5 Judas threw down the pieces of silver, then departed.
          AC 1:18 He used the coins to buy the field.

          MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
          AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.

          MT 27:11, MK 15:2, LK 23:3 When asked if he is King of the Jews, Jesus answers: “You have said so,” (or “Thou sayest”).
          JN 18:33-34 He answers: “Do you say this of your own accord?”

          MT 27:11-14 Jesus answers not a single charge at his hearing before Pilate.
          JN 18:33-37 Jesus answers all charges at his hearing before Pilate.

          MT 27:20 The chief priests and elders are responsible for persuading the people to ask for the release of Barabbas.
          MK 15:11 Only the chief priests are responsible.
          LK 23:18-23 The people ask, apparently having decided for themselves.

          MT 27:28 Jesus is given a scarlet robe (a sign of infamy).
          MK 15:17, JN 19:2 A purple robe (a sign of royalty).

          MT 27:32, MK 15:21, LK 23:26 Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus’ cross.
          JN 19:17 Jesus carries his own cross with no help from anyone.

          MT 27:37 The inscription on the cross read: “This is Jesus the King of the Jews.”
          MK 15:26 “The King of the Jews.”
          LK 23:38 “This is the King of the Jews.”
          JN 19:19 “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.”

        • DeadBabyJoke

          MT 27:44 Both of those who are crucified with Jesus taunt him.
          LK 23:39-42 Only one taunts Jesus, and he is rebuked by the other for doing so.

          MT 27:46 Jesus asks God, the Father, why he has been forsaken.
          JN 10:30 Jesus says that he and the Father are one.

          MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus’ last recorded words are: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
          LK 23:46 “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.”
          JN 19:30 “It is finished.” (Note: Even though both MT and MK allegedly represent direct quotes and are translated similarly, the actual Greek words used for God are different. MT uses “Eli” and MK uses “Eloi.”)

          MT 27:48, LK 23:36, JN 19:29 Jesus was offered vinegar to drink.
          MK 15:23 It was wine and myrrh, and he did not drink it.
          JN 19:29-30 Whatever it was, he did drink it.

          MT 27:54 The centurion says: “Truly this was the son of God.”
          MK 15:39 He says: “Truly this man was the son of God!”
          LK 23:47 He says: “Truly this man was innocent” (or “righteous”).

          MT 27:55, MK 15:40, LK 23:49 The women looked on from afar.
          JN 19:25-26 They were near enough that Jesus could speak to his mother.

          MT 27:62-66 A guard was placed at the tomb (the day following the burial).
          MK 15:42- 16:8, LK 23:50-56, JN 19:38-42 (No guard is mentioned. This is important since rumor had it that Jesus’ body was stolen and the Resurrection feigned.)
          MK 16:1-3, LK 24:1 (There could not have been a guard, as far as the women were concerned, since they were planning to enter the tomb with spices. Though the women were aware of the stone, they were obviously unaware of a guard.)

          MT 24:9 Even some of the disciples of Jesus will be killed.
          JN 8:51 If anyone keeps Jesus’ words, he will never see death.
          HE 9:27 [All] men die once, then judgement follows.

          MT 28:1 The first visitors to the tomb were Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (two).
          MK 16:1 Both of the above plus Salome (three).
          LK 23:55 – 24:1, 24:10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and “other women” (at least five).
          JN 20:1 Mary Magdalene only (one).

          MT 28:1 It was toward dawn when they arrived.
          MK 16:2 It was after sunrise.
          LK 24:1 It was at early dawn.
          JN 20:1 It was still dark.

          MT 28:1-2 The stone was still in place when they arrived. It was rolled away later.
          MK 16:4, LK 24:2, JN 20:1 The stone had already been rolled (or taken) away.

          MT 28:2 An angel arrived during an earthquake, rolled back the stone, then sat on it (outside the tomb).
          MK 16:5 No earthquake, only one young man sitting inside the tomb.
          LK 24:2-4 No earthquake. Two men suddenly appear standing inside the tomb.
          JN 20:12 No earthquake. Two angels are sitting inside the tomb.

          MT 28:8 The visitors ran to tell the disciples.
          MK 16:8 They said nothing to anyone.
          LK 24:9 They told the eleven and all the rest.
          JN 20:10-11 The disciples returned home. Mary remained outside, weeping.

          MT 28:8-9 Jesus’ first Resurrection appearance was fairly near the tomb.
          LK 24:13-15 It was in the vicinity of Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem).
          JN 20:13-14 It was right at the tomb.

          MT 28:9 On his first appearance to them, Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and the other Mary hold him by his feet.
          JN 20:17 On his first appearance to Mary, Jesus forbids her to touch him since he has not yet ascended to the Father.
          JN 20:27 A week later, although he has not yet ascended to the Father, Jesus tells Thomas to touch him.

          MT 28:7-10, MT 28:16 Although some doubted, the initial reaction of those that heard the story was one of belief since they followed the revealed instructions.
          MK 16:11, LK 24:11 The initial reaction was one of disbelief. All doubted.

          MT 28:1-18 The order of Resurrection appearances was: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, then the eleven.
          MK 16:9-14 It was Mary Magdalene, then two others, then the eleven.
          LK 24:15-36 It was two, then Simon (Peter?), then the eleven.
          JN 20:14 – 21:1 It was Mary Magdalene, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas, then the eleven disciples again.
          1CO 15:5-8 It was Cephas (Peter?), then the “twelve” (which twelve, Judas was dead?), then 500+ brethren (although AC 1:15 says there were only about 120), then James, then all the Apostles, then Paul.

          MT 28:19 Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize.
          1CO 1:17 Although he considers himself a disciple of Jesus, Paul says that he has not been sent to baptize.

          MK 1:2 Jesus quotes a statement that allegedly appears in Isaiah. No such statement appears in Isaiah. (Note: IS 40.3 is seen by some as equivalent to MK 1.2; MA 3.1 is a much better fit, however, given that Jesus is allegedly quoting word for word in MK 1:2.)

          MK 1:14 Jesus began his ministry after the arrest of John the Baptist.
          JN 3:22-24 Before the arrest of John the Baptist.

          MK 1:23-24 A demon cries out that Jesus is the Holy One of God.
          1JN 4:1-2 Everyone who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. (Note: This would mean that the demon is of God.)

          MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
          AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

          MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to “babes.”
          JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

          MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
          LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

          MK 6:52 The people were so unimpressed with “the Feeding of the Multitude” that they did not even understand the event.
          JN 6:14-15 They were so impressed that they tried to force Jesus to be their king.

          MK 6:53 After the feeding of the 5000, Jesus and the disciples went to Gennesaret.
          JN 6:17-25 They went to Capernaum.

          MK 15:25 It was the third hour when Jesus was crucified.
          JN 19:14-15 It was after the sixth hour since Jesus was still before Pilate and had not yet been sentenced at that time.

          MK 16:1-2 The women came to the tomb to anoint the body.
          JN 19:39-40 The body had already been anointed and wrapped in linen cloth.

          MK 16:5, LK 24:3 The women actually entered the tomb.
          JN 20:1-2, 11 They did not.

          MK 16:14-19 The Ascension took place (presumably from a room) while the disciples were together seated at a table, probably in or near Jerusalem.
          LK 24:50-51 It took place outdoors, after supper, at Bethany (near Jerusalem).
          AC 1:9-12 It took place outdoors, after 40+ days, at Mt. Olivet.
          MT 28:16-20 No mention is made of an ascension, but if it took place at all, it must have been from a mountain in Galilee since MT ends there.)

          LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
          LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
          LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
          LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
          LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
          JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.

          LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
          MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
          2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.

          LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
          1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
          1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.

          LK 18:9-14 Do not boast of your virtue.
          RO 11:20, 1PE 5:5 Do not be proud.
          RO 15:17, 2CO 1:12, HE 3:6, 2CO 2:14, 5:12, 11:17 Paul boasts of his faith and says that one should be proud of it.

          LK 22:3-23 Satan entered Judas before the supper.
          JN 13:27 It was during the supper.

          LK 23:43 Jesus promises one of those crucified with him that they will be together, that very day, in Paradise.
          JN 20:17, AC 1:3 Jesus was not raised until the third day and did not ascend until at least forty days later.

          LK 23:55-56 The women followed Joseph to the tomb, saw how the body had been laid, then went to prepare spices with which to anoint the body.
          JN 19:39-40 Joseph brought spices with him (75 or a 100 lbs.) and annointed the body (as the women should have noticed).

          JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
          JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.

          JN 1:1 Jesus was God incarnate.
          AC 2:22 Jesus was a man approved by God.

          JN 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge.
          JN 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, AC 10:42, 2CO 5:10 Jesus does judge.

          JN 5:22 God does not judge.
          RO 2:2-5, 3:19, 2TH 1:5, 1PE 1:17 God does judge.

          JN 5:24 Believers do not come into judgement.
          MT 12:36, RO 5:18, 2CO 5:10, HE 9:27, 1PE 1:17, JU 1:14-15, RE 20:12-13 All persons (including believers) come into judgement.

          JN 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true.
          JN 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true.

          JN 5:38-47 Men have a choice as to whether or not to receive Jesus.
          JN 6:44 No one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father.

          JN 7:38 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (i.e., the OT).
          (No such statement is found in the OT.)

          JN 10:27-29 None of Jesus’ followers will be lost.
          1TI 4:1 Some of them will be lost.

          JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or “prince”) of this world.
          1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings–the earth is his.

          JN 12:32 Jesus implies that all persons will be saved.
          1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 God wants all to be saved.
          JN 12:40, AC 2:21, 2:39, RO 9:27, 10:13 Some will not be saved.
          RE 14:1-4 Heaven will be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men (only?).

          JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going.
          JN 14:5 Thomas does the same.
          JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going.

          JN 17:12 Jesus has lost none of his disciples other than Judas.
          JN 18:9 Jesus has lost none, period.

          JN 17:12 Mentions a “son of perdition” as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT).
          (Note: There is no “son of perdition” mentioned in the OT.)

          JN 18:37 Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth.
          RO 1:18-20 The truth has always been evident.

          JN 20:9 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (meaning the OT). (No such statement is found in the OT.)

          JN 20:22 In his first resurrection appearance before the assembled disciples, Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit.
          AC 1:3-5, AC 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit was received much later (on Pentecost.)

          JN 21:25 The world probably could not contain the books if all that Jesus did were to be written.
          AC 1:1 The author of Acts has already written about all that Jesus began to do.

          AC 5:19, 12:6-11 The disciples take part in a jailbreak made possible by an angel.
          AC 5:40-42 The disciples disobey the Council and continue to teach and preach Jesus.
          RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.

          AC 5:29 Obey God, not men.
          RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.

          AC 9:7 Those present at Paul’s conversion heard the voice but saw no one.
          AC 22:9 They saw a light but did not hear a voice.

          AC 9:7 Those present at Paul’s conversion stood.
          AC 26:14 They fell to the ground.

          AC 9:19-28 Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus, then Jerusalem where he was introduced to the Apostles by Barnabas, and there spent some time with them (going in and out among them).
          GA 1:15-20 He made the trip three years later, then saw only Peter and James.

          AC 9:23 The governor attempted to seize Paul.
          2CO 11:32 It was the Jews who tried to seize Paul.

          AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
          RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth.

          AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
          RO 9:18 God has mercy on whoever he chooses, etc.

          AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia.
          AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway.

          AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: “It is more blessed to give than to receive.” (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.)

          RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law.
          RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin).

          RO 2:13 Doers of the law will be justified.
          RO 3:20, GA 3:11 They will not be justified.

          RO 2:15 The law is written on the heart. Conscience teaches right from wrong.
          1JN 2:27 Anointing by Jesus teaches right from wrong.

          RO 4:9 Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness.
          JA 2:21 Abraham was justified by works (which made his faith perfect).

          RO 10:11 (An alleged OT quote; no such statement in the OT.)

          RO 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended.
          CN 2:16 Let no one pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink.

          1CO 7:8-9 Widows should not marry (although it is better to marry than burn).
          1TI 5:14 Young widows should marry, bear children, rule the household, etc..

          1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
          2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).

          1CO 10:33 Paul says that he tries to please men (so they might be saved).
          GA 1:10 Paul says he would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men.

          2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
          1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.

          GA 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens.
          GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

          1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
          1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
          (Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)

          1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
          1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

          1TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
          2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
          CN 4:5-6 Be wise in your behavior with outsiders. Let your talk be with grace, mixed with salt, so that you may be able to give an answer to everyone.
          1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.

          JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged OT scripture verse not found in the OT.)

          RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then …
          RE 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.

        • Angel Rosas

          All the grass on Earth is burned up? A 3rd of the grass is burned up. Where did you get this? All the references make sense, with different contexts.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I notice you’re so incompetent that you don’t even TRY to precisely refer to what you claim to be objecting to.

          Actually, you’re still just attention-69whoring…you twisted git.

        • Angel Rosas

          I’m talking the truth.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Spare me the “You’re taking it of context/You’re misinterpreting them!” bullshit69. That’s just a weak excuse that believers use whenever someone points out inconvenient facts about the Bible

        • Angel Rosas

          It says a “third” of grass is burned up. You’re a idiot for taking it out of context. You say “incovenient” facts, but you use a “incovenient” list yourself.

        • Greg G.

          Revelation 8:7 (NIV)7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

          Revelation 8:7 (ESV)7 The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

          Revelation 8:7 (NKJV)7 The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

          You’re a idiot for taking it out of context.

          i don’t think you know what “out of context” means. It says what it says in context or out. It doesn’t change the meaning.

          You said he was an idiot. He reported what the verse says correctly, You reported it incorrectly. That shows you are either and idiot or a liar.

          The “inconvenience” is on the Bible inerrantists.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          That was exactly what you were doing. I showed that you were wrong, so you brought up that bullshit69 excuse to try and get away with your nonsense. You aren’t the first or last fundie hemorrhoid to try and pull this. Citation needed about my “inconvenient lists,” especially since you haven’t actually addressed my post or point whatsoever.

        • Greg G.

          That is the best response you have for all of those?

          Revelation 8:7 says a third of the EARTH, a third of the TREES, and ALL of the GRASS was burned up. Read it again.

        • al kimeea

          LOL – reading The Holey BuyBull revealed a mundane mythology, cobbled from earlier myths & an a55aholic deity…

        • Angel Rosas

          Exactly how? Gilgamesh corroborates the flood, with having a goddess. But Moses was the realistic depiction. The God of the Bible is the real one, and you can’t hate that.

        • al kimeea

          Moses & realistic don’t belong in the same sentence. Can’t hate something that’s only been rumoured for 2000 years any more than Gilgamesh. The God of the Bible is an unpleasant thing, more petulant than prescient & as real as Gilgamesh.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          The Bible is evidence of the ‘bible’.

          FTFY.

          If you’re so lost to reality that you can’t tell that, and so needy for attention, well, we’re just going to use you as a catnip toy…and your ‘god’ won’t do squat about it, because the only power it has is to change YOUR mind, and that by going away and leaving you freed from the shackles of supernatural delusion.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but it’s evidence of God. IT’s simple reality.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nope, but it’s evidence of God. IT’s simple reality.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so don’t waste our time with your drivel.

    • JustAnotherAtheist2

      Can you give me a clear example of god’s love that I can see for myself right now?

      • Angel Rosas

        You exist, and are real.
        I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Yes, my parents made a baby and I had the good fortune of it being me. How about you answer my question now?

        • Angel Rosas

          You failed.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You failed.

          Your parents failed.

          YOU are a failure. You’re offensive, mean-spirited, ignorant and proud of it, have no talents and haven’t developed any socially useful skills, and look like you’re well on your way to being a useless leech on society because nobody will want to hire you…

          Face it, you’re a loser. And if you don’t change your ways, you’ll CONTINUE to be a loser, laughed at and disdained, living off the scraps that fall from *successful* peoples’ tables as they look down on you with contempt.

          And they’ll also laugh at how you’ve crippled yourself with superstitious nonsense FOR THEM, so they don’t have to put you down, because you’re holding *yourself* down for them, in subservient degradation.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, i’m speaking the truth. I would rather want that than you. I’ll be laughing at my way to heaven, when i finally go up with my parents. Your parents too. I go with God, against the grain of this world. Our moms and dads too. I don’t follow them, but God.

        • Lucy

          If your parents are like most parents I know of, they would not be thrilled you are having this conversation, nor with the fact that you are using Hitlerite terminology unironically. And if they put you up to this, I feel truly sorry for you.

          But I doubt your parents put you up to this. So I suspect you are in for a lecture if they find out.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Is this your way of saying you aren’t going to answer my question? You’d be a whole lot more persuasive if you could follow a logical flow without these baseless diversions.

          Frankly, you are so incoherent that I now worry that you might have a mental illness. I don’t mean that as an insult, either, my concern is genuine and I hope you have the wherewithal to get the help you need.

        • Angel Rosas

          You are deluded.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          Feel the love.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Until you can demonstrate that your God exists and created ANYTHING, this is a worthless, fact-free assertion. And we’re here because our parents got together, had sex, conceived a child, and gave birth. God had nothing to do with it.

        • Angel Rosas

          God let them have sex, and have you. God knows you intimately. You need to see that. God’s presence is all around us. You need to attune unto the spiritual to hear it. Be with God, in the Holy Spirit. It’s possible.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          Your ‘god’ isn’t demonstrated.

          And given how YOUR KIND abhor and malign any sex other than that prescribed by your authoritarian superstition, that’s a particularly foolish claim.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s true. 2 sexes. Transgender kids are wrong.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          YOUR KIND are wrong.

          What I find most amusing, now, besides your desperate need for even bad attention, is how ignorant you are of the basis of your beliefs.

          And that you’re hypocritically willing to use all the fruits of science while maligning any parts of it you don’t, in your childish petulance, *like*.

          Why not be *consistent* and not use ANY of the fruits of science rather than being a hypocritical greedy child guzzling until you sicken yourself?

        • Angel Rosas

          Not ignorant. The reality of it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Not ignorant. The reality of it.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, making your words worthless.

        • Lucy

          Intersex people exist.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Except that you have yet to show that your God exists, much less created anything. More worthless assertions with no evidence.

        • Angel Rosas

          God created everything. That’s the simple truth.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, that’s a BLATANTLY FALSE assertion. Until you can provide evidence for your claims, they’re false. Saying that it’s true doesn’t make it so.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          God created everything. That’s the simple truth.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • Lark62

          Whenever a person is conceived, about 6 million sperm bite the dust.

          For every person that exists, there are 6 million people who will never exist.

          This proves nothing except your invisible imaginary friend is an asshole62.

        • Angel Rosas

          Life begins when sperm joins the womb. A baby. Don’t abort. That’s evil.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Life begins when sperm joins the womb.

          More heresy from the ignorant attention 69whore.

          Your ‘bible’ says that life begins at first *breath*, as (in the story), your ‘god’ *breathed* life into your ‘adam’.

          Yet another link in the chain of damnation you’re forging yourself in your desperate, attention-seeking *macho* *pride*.

        • Angel Rosas

          life begins at the first breath since god breathed life into adam. babies have life, but are hiding in the womb. chain of damnation, but you call me damned. You call me damned, but the path to damnation is there.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          life begins at the first breath since god breathed life into adam. babies have life, but are hiding in the womb. chain of damnation, but you call me damned. You call me damned, but the path to damnation is there.

          You’re denying your own ‘bible’, so you’re a heretic.

          You’re also a demonstrated liar, so we don’t need to heed you, and may freely mock you.

        • Wan Kun Sandy

          Life begins when sperm joins the womb. A baby.

          It’s not womb. It’s ovum, AKA egg cell. Even the joining of a sperm and ovum DOES NOT happen in the womb, rather it happens in one of the two Fallopian Tubes, or oviducts. When a sperm is able to get into the ovum, there will fusion of the genetic materials between the sperm and ovum, and thus later on a zygote cell is formed (the whole process is called fertilization). Later on it undergoes development, dividing from 1 cell to 2 cells, 2 cells to 4 cells, 4 to 8 and so on, later forming morula and eventually blastula, while going down from the oviduct to the womb (uterus). There it can implant itself on the womb and begin embryonic development.

          Notice that all of them before implantation are mere cells, certainly NOT a baby. A baby is born, by the way, before being born it’s called fetus or embryo.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, it’s life. at what point, do we classify a baby? just because’ it’s a embryo? What part of it being a embryo makes it a baby? the brain waves? it’s simple a progress in development. What’s different between abortion when the baby is 9 months old and post-term abortion?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nope, it’s life. at what point, do we classify a baby?

          When it stops being a parasite, and draws its first breath, just like your ‘bible’ commands.

          Any other questions?

        • Wan Kun Sandy

          nope, it’s life.

          Suuure, it’s life, since it’s composed by living cells. So what?

          at what point, do we classify a baby?

          Most legal laws classify that a baby is a human that has been born.

          What part of it being a embryo makes it a baby? the brain waves?

          I repeat once again, a baby is BORN. Being out of the womb. Do you even know what is “embryo” actually? Basically an embryo is a wannabe new creature, that’s still yet to be the new creature. So even a 7 months old “baby”, despite looks human enough compared to earlier months and has the basic things, is still legally called fetus. If the 7 months old comes out, then it is now called a baby.
          And, there is no such thing as “brain waves”. It’s just brain, or brain cells if you want to talk about its components.

          Nature sometimes abort, too, in case if you don’t know. It’s called spontaneous abortion. Who should be blamed for that, if it happens?

        • Lucy

          Just FYI, that “spiritual feeling” is the result of specific effects in the brain. People of all belief systems, be they religious or not, will sometimes experience that feeling because certain types of thoughts and brain activity cause it, just as surely as some things cause happiness and some things cause sadness. It’s kind of like an emotion, kind of like a state of mind, and kind of like an altered consciousness in a way, hard to describe – yet it still originates in the brain and not with a specific deity.

        • Angel Rosas

          Derail? You don’t want to accept the truth. Very funny when you say not “my kind” when I’m Mexican.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Oh, and we’re supposed to tell you’re ‘mexican’ though a text exchange?

          YOUR KIND are what you are by *choice*, and thus a fitting target for epithets against your authoritarian overreach.

          YOUR KIND feebly try to use *shaming* against us, when the fact is that you’re earning the pushback you have here, and are wildly flailing around for a way to make us ‘back off’, even by using dishonesty or false equivalencies.

        • Angel Rosas

          I said I was a Mexican.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I said I was a Mexican.

          AFTER I called you out with ‘YOUR KIND’ for your 69asshole *behavior*.

          Therefore, your ethnicity isn’t the issue. Your needy attention-seeking offensive behavior IS the issue, making the sobriquet apt.

        • Angel Rosas

          *YOUR KIND*, lol. What part of it is offensive? The beliefs, in it?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          *YOUR KIND*, lol. What part of it is offensive? The beliefs, in it?

          I don’t care what you believe, or claim to believe.

          I care what you try to FORCE on others, and your unwillingness to examine it.

          What’s offensive is your demand for acceptance and subservience DESPITE not doing your job and providing *evidence* for your assertions.

          That’s just downright uncultured.

        • Angel Rosas

          I told you i was mexican, and my name says as much.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I told you i was mexican, and my name says as much.

          AFTER I called you out for your *behavior* with ‘YOUR KIND’.

          and ‘Angel’ is a GIRL’s name in the US, in Anglo culture, sissy-boy.

        • Lucy

          No, it doesn’t.

          I’d think you’d be aware that multiple Hispanic countries exist. But apparently you either aren’t very good at geography, or it doesn’t occur to you that English speakers often confuse other Hispanics with Mexicans and have no way of telling specifically that you are.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Demonstrating that you’ve not got the mental or intellectual attributes to comment in arenas such as this place.

          Barack Hussein Obama is a US American ya daft bastard.

          Get back to Sunday School.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          What in the fuck69 are you blathering about? I never brought race into this, you did, shitstain69. And you haven’t gave any “Truth,” just a bunch of religious nonsense which you refuse to provide evidence for. I’m not going to accept your “just-so” stories just because you say so.

        • Angel Rosas

          Because it’s true. “Your kind”, hahaha. We exist, and refuse to believe.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Word salad from a fucktarded69 kkkunt69 who has no argument or evidence for their God claims. Useless garbage.

        • Angel Rosas

          kkkunt when i’m “mexican”, right? very obvious, for your reading of it. God is real.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          kkkunt when i’m “mexican”, right? very obvious, for your reading of it. God is real.

          You use that as an excuse for your inadequacy and ignorance.

          AND you’re a demonstrated liar, so DISbelief of your statements is the default.

        • Lucy

          I don’t blame them for using that term.

          After all, you were using Nazi terminology (“degen”, which is short for “degenerate” in the context of art and perspectives) to dismiss the fact that Jewish perspectives on folklore are distinct from Christian ones, or indeed from other Jewish ones – there are many Jewish perspectives out there. None of which exactly parallel the Christian one.

          And you used the same terminology to dismiss that I am in fact asexual and sex-repulsed and was at least to some extent viscerally repulsed by your descriptions of your horse fantasies that clearly still lurk in your subconscious.

          And most of the repulsion was on a purely neutral level – though I still wouldn’t want you acting on that because a) horses can’t consent and so it’s wrong to do that to them, and b) horses are huge so if they got you up your hole with their dingdong they would seriously injure you and you would possibly die.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Non sequitur and an ad hominem attack. I called you a kkkunt because that’s what you are. And the only one bringing up Mexicans and asserting that I’m insulting you because your Mexican is you. I didn’t even know that you WERE Mexican until you said so. This is a weak distraction from your lack of arguments and evidence.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Plenty of Mexicans are stupid cunts…I suggest ya look in the mirror for some local evidence on that assertion.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Because it’s true. “Your kind”, hahaha. We exist, and refuse to believe.

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

          And you seem to be confused…now you’re claiming to ‘refuse’ to believe?

          Get over yourself and your ego, sonny.

        • Angel Rosas

          I’m speaking the truth, and yet you hate me for it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I’m speaking the truth, and yet you hate me for it.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, and you’re deluded.

          You’ve been (incorrectly) taught that holding to a statement DESPITE the evidence, just because YOUR KIND want it to be true or because you have a jones for faux ‘persecution’ is admirable.

          It’s despicable, as are you.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you’re simply repeating religious garbage that I grew up hearing and rejected entirely. And again, dicklicker69, you haven’t given me any “Truth,” just religious diarrhea.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Ahhhh…you are spewing verbal diarrhea because English isn’t your first language and your grasp of it as a second language is pathetic. I get it now.

        • Lark62

          Fail.

        • Bob Jase

          If you came into the world as a light your bulb has burned out.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, the opposite.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re casting *heat*, with hot offensive words, but no *light*, which would be SHOWING what you have to offer.

          You realize that you *can’t* SHOW, though, because you know it’s just in your head, and you’re attention-starved, so you keep on poking people who simple courtesy would prescribe that you don’t bother.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, because it’s true.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nope, because it’s true.

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

      • Angel Rosas

        You are loved.

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          I am, though not by you if your penchant for dishonesty and obfuscation is any indication.

          Please Angel, get help.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You are loved.

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

          IF the person is loved, it’s *despite* your assertion, not because of it, and not by any supernatural myth.

    • Otto
      • Angel Rosas

        Nah. It’s fake.

        • Otto

          Yeah, cuz it’s a story.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah. It’s fake.

          You mean your ‘god’? Because the lack of evidence for it sure points to that conclusion, statistically.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, he’s real. Your wife cheating does not need to have evidence. Is that right, since we’re “mammals”? You know to immediately divorce her in that case.

        • Otto

          God doesn’t say anything himself, he can only communicate through other people, because he is a character in a story.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, that’s how he reveals himself. Would you want him to destroy stars and planets on a daily basis? What would you like him to do.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why do you keep throwing out offensive lies?

          Do you crave attention so badly that even bad attention is better for you than the void of NO attention you seem to suffer in your daily life?

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, but i’m telling the truth.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nope, but i’m telling the truth.

          You’ve done nothing but *lie* since you got here, so I doubt that.

          Look up ‘The Boy Who Cried Wolf’, and learn the lesson.

        • Otto

          If he reveals himself why does he need you to talk for him?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          There you go, being *sensible* again…

          😉

        • Angel Rosas

          *sensible* in the eyes of the world, hahah. Refugees are a good thing in this world, right?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          *sensible* in the eyes of the world, hahah. Refugees are a good thing in this world, right?

          Do you look both ways before you cross a busy street?

          Yes, *sensible* in this world, else you won’t *last* long.

          Refugees are just another example of your supposed ‘god’ being a 69fuck-up. IF it had done its job right, per your story, there would be no refugees because there would be no war, and nobody would want for anything.

          You’ll try to reject this by claiming ‘free will’, but THAT is just another mistake your supposed ‘god’ supposedly ‘designed’ into humanity.

          “It’s not a bug, it’s a FEATURE” is a joke in the tech industry, but in your religion, it’s treated as ‘true’ and admirable for some reason.

        • Angel Rosas

          because i’m defending for him. he exists and is out there, in the foundation of the world. i’m being a representative for God. telling you of his existence, and stuff. the biggest thing about this is you know he’s real. search inside yourself, and recognize there is a god. you can determine the existence right now. God is real. You need to see. May God Bless.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          because i’m defending for him.

          Nope, you’re not.

          You’re *attempting*, but failing miserably, because *you’re* a failure.

          Your supposed ‘god’ wouldn’t need YOUR help, loser. You’re doing this to try to lay YOUR OWN doubts to rest, and it won’t work.

          You can’t deny what YOU know is in your mind. You can lie to others, but never successfully to yourself, but all you can do is keep trying because that’s all that’s left for you until you come to your senses and give up the superstition you cling to despite the emotional and mental harm it does to you.

        • Lucy

          An infinitely powerful being needs no other beings to defend him.

        • Otto

          God’s that need people to argue on their behalf are not real.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, I’m telling you he is real. I’m a ambassador for Christ. I’m telling you the existence of Christ, and of God.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, I’m telling you he is real. I’m a ambassador for Christ. I’m telling you the existence of Christ, and of God.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so your words, like your self, are worthless.

        • Otto

          No, I’m telling you he is real.

          Thanks for making my point for me.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, that’s how he reveals himself. Would you want him to destroy stars and planets on a daily basis? What would you like him to do.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, He isn’t real. Until you provide logical, objective, verifiable, empirical, reproducible evidence that your God exists, is the One True God, and that your holy book/religion is true and correct, we have no reason to take you seriously. Just repeating your assertions isn’t an argument.

        • Angel Rosas

          Jesus.
          https://youtu.be/Vt6LnWD61Hc
          You are living in his creation, and are his creation. You have free-will so you are able to pick.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          More worthless, evidence-free assertions. You have yet to demonstrate that your God exists, much less created anything.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          That’s a baseless assertion until you anchor it in observable reality.

          Which YOUR KIND does a 69piss-poor job of.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s real. Go watch komoda.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Callow youth, YOUR KIND don’t have ANY power to compel.

          But I’ll bet your ‘god’ would (if it existed as your book *claims* it does) PUNISH you for playing such a heathen game as GTA (although I had to look up the reference, being an adult with no emotional need to 69murder 69prostitutes after 69fucking them, stealing, etc.)

          I’m guessing you’re using it as a release for the urges you can’t assuage with your ’69bestiality’ 69addiction any more?

          It’s interesting that YOUR KIND are *fine* with war, 69murder, 69rape, and 69pillage, but *consensual* 69sex drives you to distraction, because it takes away your power to degrade others and make them FEEL degraded.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, God is real. I don’t play GTA. Whatever comes into a man and comes out of him is what makes him unclean. You don’t want control.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Another nerve nailed…there is NO other common reference for that word you unwittingly dropped in conversation.

          Enjoy your damnation, little Skippy! It’s gonna *gnaw* at you until you successfully escape the mind prison you currently inhabit while simultaneously subconsciously seeking an escape.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, because it’s annoying.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, because it’s annoying.

          Ah..gotcha.

          You 69SUCK at GTA, and *that* is why, in your fragile uncertainly, you claim it annoys you.

          Just admit you’re a loser…it’ll be a BIG load off your mind to be honest about something for once.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i was talking about your responses. i don’t play gta, and you’re a loser in the eyes of God.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, i was talking about your responses. i don’t play gta, and you’re a loser in the eyes of God.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, and dishonorable as well.

          So you’re to be disregarded until you actually do your work.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i have salvation because of the lamb. Jesus.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, i have salvation because of the lamb. Jesus.

          Says the demonstrated liar.

          Admit it, you’re *terrified* that your thoughtcrime will doom you, since you have doubts.

        • Angel Rosas

          GTA, should make you clean. the stuff about “prostitutes” is there for shock value. do you take your news from fox news for that bit? how funny. rural. You need to have love. Love will solve it.
          7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          GTA, should make you clean.

          Your desperation and lies *reek*.

          You so fear being denied one of the (probably few) outlets you have to release the pressure of emotionaly dissonance that you’d excuse ANYthing to get your fix.

          You’re a junkie because your religion offers you no other escape, and you feel guilt because you don’t believe you SHOULD need escape.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Another worthless assertion from a fucker69 with no evidence or argument.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, it’s true.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Prove it, Blue Waffle Disease.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, it’s true.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • Lark62

          You’re not very good at this.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not very good at what?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Not very good at what?

          Your socialization 69SUCKS, and whoever twisted your psyche into the form that it presently holds, which holds that annoying strangers rather than working together toward a greater good is admirable, deserves harsh punishment for damaging you so.

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s real. Catch it again.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, it’s real. Catch it again.

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

          Why should I weaken myself with a illness that would degrade me to be as inadequate as YOU are? Do you not like continually losing because you refuse to recover? You sound like the the leper in the story where he ran away for fear of being cured and losing himself.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Really fuckin’ shite at it?

          We really shouldn’t be encouraging the poor bastard, it’s cruel.

          Quine’s troll petting zoo is the best place for the knuckle-dragging Dime Bar.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You have yet to demonstrate that your God exists, much less created anything. Nor have you shown that this is a creation, or that your God is responsible. If you can’t show the assumptions that your arguments rely upon as being true, your arguments will always be wrong. And you haven’t shown your assumptions to be true. Not by a long shot.

        • Angel Rosas

          God exists, and you are a creation.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I exist, and your ‘god’ is a creation of human minds.

          I can *demonstrate* my assertion…why don’t you try to do that for yours?

        • Angel Rosas

          Not at all. The God is the one who made it all, and you are a creation. You’re not greater than God. You can die.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You seem pretty insistent on that.

          I don’t believe for a SECOND that you actually *believe* it, though…because if you DID believe it, you wouldn’t be so insistent about pushing it on *others*.

          You’re attacking our justified disbelief as a coping mechanism for your (equally justified) disbelief because you’re SCARED of the superstitious ‘punishment’ that was poured into your psyche before you reached the age of reason.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Not at all. The God is the one who made it all, and you are a creation. You’re not greater than God. You can die.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Which you have to prove, making this yet another assertion. Your continual refusal to provide arguments or evidence for your claims have been duly noted.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          God exists, and you are a creation.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • Angel Rosas

          “assumption”? it;s all true. God created everything and is in all.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          “assumption”? it;s all true. God created everything and is in all.

          So you say, skippy.

          But you’re a demonstrated liar, so anything YOU say should be DISbelieved automatically.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          They ARE assumptions, because you haven’t provided logical, objective, verifiable, empirical, reproducible evidence that your God exists, that He’s the One True God, that He created the universe, and that your holy book/religion is true & correct. You simply ASSUME & ASSERT that this is the case, without any justification. This makes your arguments worthless.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Too many big words in there for AR, methinks.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Probably, but I don’t think I can dumb my posts down enough that AR could understand it.

        • Lucy

          Sorry, songs from Joseph, King of Dreams (which I’ve seen multiple times, btw. along with Prince of Egypt) are not evidence of God.

          And, by the way, my favorite song from Prince of Egypt is Through Heaven’s Eyes – and no, that is not proof of a god. I see it as more of a metaphor. Oh, and by the way, did you know Prince of Egypt (and Joseph, King of Dreams, for that matter) were filmed from an explicitly Jewish perspective, not a Christian one? Like, seriously, Prince of Egypt even features some lyrics in Hebrew, referencing Adonai, the Jewish god (the Christian god is never referred to as Adonai).

          Oh, and by the way, my dad is Jewish by birth and is an atheist (though he hates labels) and one of my uncles on my dad’s side is a practicing religious Jew – who is also an atheist, the Jewish framework readily allows that. Shocker, I know.

          And look, I found that favorite song of mine. I’ll link it right here. Take whatever you want from it, but know it won’t convince me to believe in a god:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0a9WFkgzU

          Oh, and as for those Hebrew lyrics? Here they are. In the song “When You Believe”:

          https://youtu.be/RTTxywB7b_U?t=177

          And I know that this might be a shocker to you, because you are definitely Christian. No Jew would talk like this, religious or not. And I know. I live in NYC. I’ve known a lot of Jews. And I watched Shari Lewis as a kid – she’s a Jew.

        • Angel Rosas

          Are you “degen”? Jewish lore is still important to Christianity. Jesus was a Jew.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          So you don’t eat pork? You take the ‘sabbath’ on Saturday? You don’t cut your hair? You’re 69circumcised?

          Face it, you’re messing with a bunch of people who have *outgrown* your weak-minded superstitious notions, and you’re nothing more than a gadfly, and an unsuccessful one at that.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, not at all. You’re meant to take food with “thanksgiving” so you are able to have clean food with blessing. Sabbath is what i celebrate and you too, unconsciously. Cutting my hair would be a good thing. Circumcised was a thing of the old covenent, but i can take it again. nope, you’ve outgrown yourself. thinking in your delusion, while i go to heaven.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, not at all. You’re meant to take food with “thanksgiving” so you are able to have clean food with blessing.

          More heresy, if you claim to follow your ‘bible’.

          Your ‘jesus’, per your book, said “not one jot nor tittle of the law shall pass away until all has been fulfilled.”

          Note the ‘ALL’ in that sentence. That ‘ALL’ includes, per the story, the ‘second coming’ of your ‘jesus’….which hasn’t happened yet, assuming your book is anything more than a badly-written story.

          So YOUR KIND are still bound by Hebraic law or you’re heretics and apostate.

        • ORigel

          Depends if you follow Paul or Jesus, I suppose.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Paul’s idea of Jesus or the gospel writers idea of Jesus. Those are the versions that won the day and merged to be modern Christianity.

          None of which actually existed.

        • ORigel

          Yes, neither existed.

          Note, too, that the Gospel of John’s Jesus and the Jesus of Revelation are different characters than the Synoptic Gospel version.

        • Greg G.

          Note, too, that the Gospel of John’s Jesus and the Jesus of Revelation are different characters than the Synoptic Gospel version.

          The Gospel of John’s Jesus and the Jesus of Revelation are different characters as well.

        • Lucy

          First of all, that’s irrelevant. Second, in spite of Christian claims, Jewish and Christian perspectives on the same lore are very different.

          And again, Jews still exist, and are not an extinct culture. Maybe if you thought outside your bubble you’d see that and not join the Hitlerites in hating them.

        • Lucy

          Also, while I am not religious in any way, being surrounded by Jews (both in school and having been raised with Jewish influences courtesy of my Jewish stay-at-home dad) tells me that you quoted exactly the wrong song from Joseph, King of Dreams to express the idea of trusting God. That song is about Joseph being a little full of himself as a result of being told what a “miracle” he is. He hasn’t proven himself, he thinks he’s special, and like he’s above petty things (hmmm, kind of like a rather brash young commenter who just posted that song, hmmm?)

          Whereas, the song in this movie that actually discusses trust in God in a mature way (for those who believe in it) is this one:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3LndEB-Drc

          I think your (totally off the mark) choice of song, which has nothing to do with God-belief and everything to do with an over-inflated sense of being “special” and lack of humility, says quite a lot about you, actually.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, you’re full of yourself. I know I’m a child of god. You know, you aren’t. You interpret the song in your twisted manner while the actual song is meant to be “cheerful”. Dark, and twisted humor. It all requires a change of mind.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You might want to look up ‘whistling in the dark’, you pathetic tween.

          If you haven’t figure it out yet, be aware that *we* have figured out that, IF you really believed the nonsense you’re peddling here, you’d be off living your best life rather than annoying people you don’t know.

        • Angel Rosas

          nope, i will speak the truth. you talk in the dark a lot. you need the light.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          nope, i will speak the truth.

          NOT.

          If this thread is any example, you’re too incompetent to do that….you lie as you breathe, it’s become an instinct for you, rather than the normal human tendency to tell the truth.

        • Lucy

          I’ve looked into my crystal ball and I see you failing literature class with flying colors when you actually get around to taking it.

          Seriously, your teacher won’t be impressed with your lack of analytical skills.

          And yes, the song is cheerful. Hopeful, even. But – and here’s a big but – it is also a song of a child who hasn’t matured and has a swelled head and a lot of growing up to do. Clearly, you have trouble grasping this kind of nuance, or yo would understand that “bighead” is not in the same realm as “dark and twisted”, yet is something that should be avoided.

          Maybe someday, when you have grown up, you will look back on that and realize that there was actually something else you didn’t know and that there is far more nuance in the world than you are even beginning to understand right now.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah, you’re full of yourself. I know I’m a child of god. You know, you aren’t. You interpret the song in your twisted manner while the actual song is meant to be “cheerful”. Dark, and twisted humor. It all requires a change of mind.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • Angel Rosas

          Are you “degen”? The workers were Christian, but presented it in a Jewish mindset since it was during the Exodus. Adonai refers to our God, with Jesus being the representative. He actually does have a Hebrew name, with a large number of Messianic Jews.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You seem VERY frightened to be considered ‘abnormal’.

          Hint: you ARE. *Normal* people have grown up sufficiently to realize that if a group of adults have shown they aren’t interested in your childish nonsense, you should leave it and change to a mutually-interesting topic.

          I don’t care about your fandom, nor do any of the others here, who *were* xtians, and are thus inoculated against your malign attempts to enslave us to your mind-virus again.

          Of course, you’re still an annoying little git, with no manners and less self-awareness.

        • Angel Rosas

          normal people, by the “world” is shit. if i was *abnormal*, i would like bestality. you would like that, than to be christian. i would rather be christian than you, any time of the week. those people who were once “christian” need to be again.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          normal people, by the “world” is shit. if i was *abnormal*, i would like bestality.

          Then why stick around?

          Per your book, don’t you have a *glorious* ‘hereafter’ waiting for you?

          And re ‘abnormal’, YOU still like this ‘bestiality’, or you wouldn’t keep coming back to it. Your xtianity won’t take away the urge, it’s just going to put it in a pressure cooker of psychic pressure until you explode and act out, hopefully harming nobody, but at least only harming yourself.

        • ORigel

          Reminds me of the Book of Mormon, where everyone has to believe in Jeebus to be saved centuries before the Crucifixion.

        • Lucy

          You do realize that’s a Nazi term right? It was the Nazis who used the term “degenerate art”, to describe art that didn’t fit their ideal. It was one of the ways in which they fostered racial prejudice. Including towards people who share your own racial background.

          You do not want to be in bed with those guys.

          And (though I seriously doubt you’ll look it up) here’s the basic source on this fact, which two seconds of Googling would have found:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

        • DeadBabyJoke

          That’s not evidence, you’re just a dipshidiot69.

        • Angel Rosas

          You’re gay.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You keep using those words.

          I do not think they mean what YOUR KIND think they mean.

          So do better. YOUR KIND can’t successfully browbeat, you saleshack…you’ve got to *convince* if you want to make the sale…

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s retarded. Your analogies don’t make sense. You want your reality. Go back to playing personal 5.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          And yet again you demonstrate your juvenile mentality, and pathetic, not-even-sophomoric attempts at disdain and opprobrium.

          I *have* reality, and your supposed ‘god’ has yet to make an appearance.

          In fact, if your ‘god’ considers belief so important, pray that I’m contacted DIRECTLY….mostly because you 69SUCK at selling your foolish idea.

        • Angel Rosas

          Not at all true. You refuse to believe. I can see you’re been effected by it. Read the text, and conclude they come from each other. Not a fan fanon idea.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Why *should* I believe?

          YOU frame it as a ‘refusal’….but not believing, when there’s no evidence, is *wisdom*…not something you’d know about, youngster.

          If you don’t believe me, consider whether or not you’d try crossing a busy street, at night, in a driving rain, without looking both ways and trying to avoid cars…using your ‘faith’ that you’d be safe.

          You’ve got a LOT of growing up to do, and wasting your time on defending a superstition that will only stunt your ability to learn from what your faculties tell you isn’t a wise use of your time, no matter how emotionally satisfying you find the praise your abusers heap on you for it.

        • epeeist

          Guys, I think you are responding to a sock here. Have a glance at “her” posting history. One post on a game blog a year ago and then a spate of this crap starting about 10 hours ago. Looks like someone took over a moribund account.

        • Lucy

          Teenager. That’s what we’re responding to. A young punk who is convinced he had a change of heart and must share how morally great he is now.

          I’m sure his age is a big reason why his posting history is so sporadic, too. Except for today. And I bet he’ll be in for a tongue-lashing when his parents find out. If they find out.

        • epeeist

          Teenager. That’s what we’re responding to. A young punk who is convinced he had a change of heart and must share how morally great he is now.

          We have had a poster called “Candy Smith” who has had socks, the language for this one is different but the style is quite similar.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Ha…wasn’t a just thinking the same sure?

        • Greg G.

          I think it is the person who wore “LubedUpLarry” and “Pop Leibel” socks, among others.

        • Angel Rosas

          I’m morally great. Being persecuted for your beliefs is a honor. Atheists are the biggest hypocrites I have seen.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Ohhhh, you’re one of THOSE.

          Hint: Being an 69asshole is being an 69asshole, and NO amount of ‘good intentions’ will overshadow that.

          While you’re about it, consider *what road* is said to be paved with ‘good’ intentions (another Hint: NOT to the Pearly Gates)

          And consistently slamming your metaphorical face against our verbal resistance is NOT persecution, it’s masochism, which is a perversity your xtianity frowns on.

          As for your last comment, that’s another confessional accusation…you’re really pretty unwittingly transparent, little bub.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, i will go on the path to life. path with “good intention” like what you consider, is “shit”. Only to life, will i go.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, i will go on the path to life.

          NOT.

          You keep on deluding yourself, and we’ll go on living our best lives without you or YOUR KIND.

        • Lucy

          People who are morally great don’t need to say it. They show it, with their actions. You have not.

          And being persecuted for one’s beliefs is no honor – it can be summed up in one quick sentence: “They tried to kill us, and we survived – let’s eat”.

          That is a Jewish saying. A saying from a people who, unlike Christians, actually were persecuted for their beliefs (and culture) and faced not just pushback as you are facing now, but, to start with, being killed, driven from their villages, being forced to work a limited range of jobs designed to set them up as villains, and made to wear yellow stars and other such badges identifying them so people could attack them.

          None of this is happening to you. All that is happening to you is receiving pushback on a big-boys forum after bringing nothing whatsoever to the table.

          The people who were genuinely persecuted for their beliefs and/or culture (not just Jews, but Native Americans and Romani and some other groups as well, who were persecuted in different ways but with the common denominator of risking being killed or driven away) will be the first to tell you that being persecuted is no honor, it is a real danger when it happens and often a source of not only fear for one’s life, but shame, as people who grow up experiencing this prejudice know the shame of being told they are not good enough by society simply because of who they are and who cannot help but internalize at least some of the idea that they are inherently inferior by virtue of being the persecuted race no matter what they do to fight off these feelings.

        • Bob Jase

          You’re also humble as All shite!

          As to being persecuted, you came here and attacked us, we didn’t hunt for you to attack you.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I’m morally great. Being persecuted for your beliefs is a honor. Atheists are the biggest hypocrites I have seen.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “I’m morally great.”
          You worship a murderous, genocidal crybaby who killed everything on the planet because he was throwing a hissy fit. And the Bible promotes all kinds of evil and depraved shit69. in no position to talk about “morality.”

          “Being persecuted for your beliefs is a honor.”
          You’re NOT being persecuted for your beliefs, you’re just butthurt69 that we have the nerve to not only disagree and mock your idiotic beliefs, but because we know more about your holy book and religion, which you can’t refute. Get over yourself, skidmark.

        • Greg G.

          That is the type of Christian who feels persecuted when others resist his persecution of them.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “How dare you resist persecution in the name of my God? Help, help, I’m being repressed!”

        • Angel Rosas

          You were once that way.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You were once that way.

          We *were* young and stupid…but WE got over it, and beat the mind infection, and are inoculated against YOUR KIND’s attempts to spread your mind pathogen among us.

        • I’ve shown Angel the door.

        • Susan

          I’m sure his age is a big reason why his posting history is so sporadic, too.

          No. The posting history suggests that some guy named Angel’s account was hijacked by a troll.

          You were not talking to Angel.

          Just a sockpuppet troll who hijacked Angel’s account because Angel made the mistake of commenting on Disqus a long time back about gaming, and then let his account go dormant.

          This is basic internet stuff. Repulsive, but basic.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nope, it’s true. I have the cross with me, and carry it daily. I rather be with God than you.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I’d rather you were with your ‘god’ (in the most vivid way) than being an annoying, twerpy pest around here, too…but you refuse to go away, and seem to suffer under the delusion that annoying people and driving them away from your religion gets you some kind of brownie points.

          Whoever warped your psyche into its current configuration did NOT do you any favors, kid…that’s free advice, although you’re too callow and puffed full of false pride to take it.

        • Angel Rosas

          haha. i will speak the truth. you’re puffed up of pride and “callow”.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          haha. i will speak the truth. you’re puffed up of pride and “callow”.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, and your accusations show your own mindset.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You’re the little bitch69 puffed up with pride and callow, otherwise you’d admit that you were wrong, that you have no idea what the fuck69 you’re talking about, and would leave this website.
          You refuse to do so out of pride and delusions.

        • Bob Jase

          Well if you don’t want to be here you know you can leave.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope, it’s true. I have the cross with me, and carry it daily. I rather be with God than you.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Why don’t you crucify yourself and go be with your pussy69 God? And if you’d rather be with God than us, then fuck69 off this website. You came here to cause trouble, directly in violation of the holy book that you pretend to follow.

        • Angel Rosas

          It is a refusal. You don’t want to believe. This is the path that leads to life. It’s a refusal if you were once walking on the path, but lead astray.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          It is a refusal.

          Keep on telling your lies, little boy, while the rest of us laugh at you and your silly superstitions and ‘afterlife’.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          And you refuse to believe in Harry Potter. You don’t want to believe. Same argument, different fictional character.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Why should we believe in your religious delusions when you refuse to support your claims?

        • Angel Rosas

          No, it’s reality. And it’ll come.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Calling an elbow a foot doesn’t make it so.

          And you can keep lying, to us and to yourself, but that won’t make it real…it’ll just make you an 69asshole who goes out of his way to lie *unpleasantly* because you have an unrequited need for attention, even negative attention.

          Sounds to me like you don’t honor YOUR parents…because not liking what they give you is ‘dishonorable’, by YOUR KIND’s lights.

        • Angel Rosas

          We’re the body of Christ. Liking what? My members need to be treated honorably.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          We’re the body of Christ. Liking what? My members need to be treated honorably.

          Non sequitur, then more nonsense.

          Social approval is important to humans functioning properly.

          Honor is granted where it’s earned. YOUR KIND make a *point* of acting DIShonorably, then demanding not just respect but subservience, since YOUR KIND were able to use force for so long to make us *good* people comply with your authoritarian hate and lies.

          You want to be treated with ‘honor’? FUCKING **BE** HONORABLE!

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You’re violating the Bible by being here and pulling this shit69, you hypocritical fake Christian @$$hole.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          No, it’s reality. And it’ll come.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          And I can fly by thinking happy thoughts./s

        • Angel Rosas

          You need to be holy.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You need to be holy.

          Is *that* the best you’ve got?

          Run along, little boy.

          YOU need me to be ‘holy’, as I’m obviously kicking your callow, ignorant, tight-69assed 69ass up and down the thread…so you’re demanding I resign because I’m showing just how inadequate the ideas your mind has been stained with are, and how inadequate YOU are in trying to communicate them *persuasively* to others.

          – great command
          – great commission

          You’re a failure.

          That is all.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You need to be lobotomized.

        • Greg G.

          Again?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I guess the first one didn’t stick.

        • Greg G.

          AR is obviously immune to dain bramage.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          HAHAHA!!! I love the spoonerism.

        • Ignorant Amos

          How can a vacuum get lobotomized?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          With patience and effort.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Literally ALL of your posts are fucking69 retarded, numbnuts69. You’re in NO postion to call the posts of others “retarded.”

        • Angel Rosas

          What? It’s true.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Your only ‘truth’ is in your hateful authoritarian overreach…not unlike the main character in your book.

          I think I see why you’re an xtian…it allows you to give yourself a license to be a pushy 69asshole while blaming it on your ‘god’.

          But IF you ever get a girlfriend/boyfriend, friend, this 69shit is NOT going to fly, so why keep practicing it?

        • Angel Rosas

          why do i care about a bf/gf? it doesn’t make sense. I care about God’s approval the most.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          why do i care about a bf/gf?

          Because you’re obviously starved for *attention*, as evidenced by your maladaptive behavior here, and for *approval*, which you obviously crave even more for being denied it in your meatspace life.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          It’s because no one wants to be with a dumbass69 like you.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Now the penny is dropping.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you’re simply to fucking69 stupid69 to understand what we’re saying. That doesn’t make these posts retarded, it just makes you retarded.

        • Angel Rosas

          you’re just mad. this is a call to holliness.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          you’re just mad. this is a call to holliness.

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

          Why should we believe a demonstrated liar?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you are LITERALLY too fucking69 stupid to understand what I, and everyone here, have been saying. If you don’t want to be called stupid, then stop being stupid and making stupid posts. So far, I’ve been fully justified in calling you stupid. You don’t seem to understand basic logic or grammar, nor do you know what a logical fallacy is. That’s stupidity. The fact that you’re doing so in a piss69-poor attempt to defend your religion and convert us, on an atheist website, no less, just proves it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          What? It’s true.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Also, ad hominem attack.

        • Jennny

          How very dare you insult learning disabled people with that slur, very jesusy x-tian of you indeed. I’m disgusted on behalf of myself, my LD friends and two LD family members.

        • epeeist

          You are responding to what is almost certainly a sock puppet, have a look at “her” comment history.

        • Artor

          Sure, but there’s a real idiot manning that sock.

        • Ignorant Amos

          It’s reminiscent of an early Candy Smith.

        • Angel Rosas

          What? It’s true. Is transgender kids wrong?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Transgender kids are good, as are cisgender kids, because they’re true to themselves.

          Unlike YOU, who hide from your urges and malign them.

        • Angel Rosas

          good? surgery. urges to do bad things, from the enemy. having urges to fuck horses is not normal.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Surgery is good.

          Your supposed ‘god’ is such a 69fuck-up that surgery, antibiotics, vaccines, etc. are required to fix all the newbie mistakes that bodies suffer from.

          YOUR KIND also don’t have the privilege of deciding what surgery is good or bad. That’s between the patient/guardian and the doctor.

          YOUR KIND can’t force people to live by YOUR rules, in YOUR little boxes anymore, and it’s obvious YOUR KIND purely *hate* equality and your loss of the undeserved privilege you abused for so long.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          See also Libby Anne’s Two Boxes:

          This shows YOUR KIND’s hateful demands vs *workable* morality.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a50f9870485b8b1e441f7806cebe3f178dcfdf0e0fde6000f109de325384a343.png

        • Artor

          Rape69 belongs in that upper right box too. Gawd lurves him some 69rape!

        • ORigel

          Not all trans people get surgery. Trans kids first get puberty blockers, if they are fortunate enough to have understanding parents or guardians. Then hormone treatments. Only later they make the choice of whether to go through surgery.

        • Lucy

          Uh-uh. Urges to do it with horses – that’s all you.

          Oh, and FYI, gender (be it trans or cis) has nothing at all to do with urges to “get it on”.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I bet that Angel has banged all the animals in the farmyard.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Been banged by them all, is what I suspect. Hence the amount of godbotting and hurtin’ being done here.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          AR likes to have fun, barnyard-style, then prays for forgiveness.

        • Greg G.

          It’s the only way to go. Praying for permission never works.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          AR is delusional, so he probably believed he got permission.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “Having urges to fuck69 horses is not normal”
          Who the fuck69 is saying this? Fucktarded69 Christian homophobes who don’t have an argument, so they have to use the slippery slope fallacy, that’s who. You’re criticizing the LGBTQ and us for a position that no one is holding. And you should REALLY look up Neal Horsely.

        • ORigel

          Denying the identities of transgender kids is wrong.

          Transgender kids are fine.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, it’s not true, and it’s not wrong. What Christians do to children is wrong.

        • Ignorant Amos

          It must take some training to be so asinine with just the one head. What an imbecile Dime Bar.

        • Ignorant Amos

          The word now has a number of meanings in common parlance…one of which is “stupid and foolish”. Don’t justify the fucker by becoming a tone troll. Especially as the fuckwit has demonstrated no intellectual ability to understand the difference.

        • Jennny

          I think you use the ‘R’ word in the USA maybe as less of a slur. In the UK, it’s just not used, it’s very insulting….learning disabled is the universal term. Still puzzling over the answer the troll gave me…he/she/it said it was talking accurately about transgender children?? As if the two are the same, it’s too dumb to know the difference.

        • Ignorant Amos

          I think you use the ‘R’ word in the USA maybe as less of a slur. In the UK, it’s just not used, it’s very insulting….

          Jennny, I’m commenting from the UK…I’m a Brit. I hear the word often enough used for it to enter mt vocabulary.

          Now I did know that retarded was a naughty word but I still think this is retarded. I could probably get away with calling these people idiots, morons or even imbeciles but for some reason, ‘retarded’ really seems to rankle with these verbal puritans – none of whom, to my knowledge, have ever actually suffered with any learning disability. Ironic really since the phrase mentally retarded was invented to replace all of the above… but has ultimately become more shocking.

          https://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2013/12/13/19263/banning_retarded_is_retarded_itself

          …learning disabled is the universal term.

          That’s correct. Which is why if one is using the word “retarded” to describe someone who has learning difficulties, rather than as a shorthand alternative to say, “a knuckle-dragging imbecile”, there is a difference. Whatever way we want to carve it up. There are folk that are stupid. Some can’t help it, while others realish and wallow in their stupidity. The pejorative in this context is aimed at the later. Though with this onionhead AR, it’s hard to judge.

          I’m a big fan of comedians that use controversial language. Some of the funniest British, American, and Australian comics regularly get slated for such controversial use. Brit comics like Ricky Gervais and Frankie Boyle among them…

          “JUST TO CLARIFY FOR UPTIGHT PEOPLE STUCK IN THE PAST. THE WORD MONG MEANS DOWN’S SYNDROME ABOUT AS MUCH AS THE WORD GAY MEANS HAPPY. I NEVER USE THE WORD MONG TO MEAN ANYTHING TO DO WITH DOWN’S SYNDROME.” ~ Ricky Gervais

          Still puzzling over the answer the troll gave me…he/she/it said it was talking accurately about transgender children?? As if the two are the same, it’s too dumb to know the difference.

          Good luck with that. The simple fucker just burbles gibberish as far as I’ve been able to make out.

          Btw, my nephew has grown up with special needs and learning difficulties through suffering from cerebral palsy, so don’t think I take this subject flippantly.

        • Jennny

          My experience is different. It’s a childish, immature insult of a word. As a teacher, if one heard it thrown at another child, one reprimanded the speaker. I work with LD folk and know it occasionally happens to them, they are shouted at in the street. Much as I like Gervais, I’m sorry he pushes boundaries about LD folk who have enough to put up just with coping with everyday life and are acutely aware of their disabilities.

        • Ignorant Amos

          That’s because you still associate the word to a particular definition. To that ends, you shouldn’t be using any derogatory word associated with being a fool or stupid. Idiot, cretin, and imbecile are all medical terms that have been redefined as pejorative and derogatory in modern parlance. But because of their use in common parlance, they are more acceptable.

          When you or someone is referring to another as an idiot they are doing the exact same thing.

          Idiot
          It was formerly a technical term in legal and psychiatric contexts for some kinds of profound intellectual disability where the mental age is two years or less, and the person cannot guard himself or herself against common physical dangers. The term was gradually replaced by the term profound mental retardation (which has itself since been replaced by other terms).

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot

          I’m guessing at some point you’ve called someone and idiot, cretin, imbecile…or one of the many words synonymous…as a pejorative. You are therefore as guilty for using a childish immature insult of a word.

          Ya think the use of the word “stupid” is any better?

          Stupidity is a quality or state of being stupid, or an act or idea that exhibits properties of being stupid. In a character study of “The Stupid Man” attributed to the Greek philosopher Theophrastus (c. 371 – c. 287 BC), stupidity was defined as “mental slowness in speech or action”. The modern English word “stupid” has a broad range of application, from being slow of mind (indicating a lack of intelligence, care or reason), dullness of feeling or sensation (torpidity, senseless, insensitivity), or lacking interest or point (vexing, exasperating). It can either imply a congenital lack of capacity for reasoning, or a temporary state of daze, or slow-mindedness.

          Think again.

          Now perhaps you’ve never used a word in a derogatory manner in reference to a persons mental ability to comprehend simple statements. I don’t see how you could have managed such a feat, particularly in the field of teaching. But don’t think for one moment you are on the moral high ground just because antiquity is more on your side. It is what it is. Only folk who actually have learning disabilities are exempt. I would no more call my nephew stupid than I would retarded…or any other such reference.

          As a matter of convenience, I’ve rarely felt the need for the use of the word “retarded”, there’s plenty enough others to do the job. But I hear it enough, and am savvy enough, to understand the context in which it is being used, to know when and where it is out of order. So even that fuckwit Angel wasn’t using it as a direct reference to someone who actually has learning disabilities or worse. Far be it for me to be defending the right of that cretinous Christer to use a particular pejorative, but if the cap fits and all that jazz.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, that’d be your God and holy book.

        • Clancy

          Like your Bible.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      I DON’T BELIEVE YOU.

      Explain why I *should* subscribe to your superstitious nonsense before you attempt to insert it into our conversation.

      • Angel Rosas

        Um, because it’s true. It’s literally a change of mind. Believe.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, you ASSERT that this is true. But you have yet to provide anything remotely close to evidence which supports your nonsense. You just ASSERT that this is true, and expect is to accept it on your word, without thought or question. Sorry, we don’t work that way.

        • Angel Rosas

          You work in a deluded way. It’s all a lie, and you believe in it.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          More projection, and another confessional accusation.

          Don’t you ever get tired of losing using the same debunked PRATT tropes?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          This coming from a cumbubble69 who believes in an imaginary friend and worships a Jewish zombie. And you can’t, and won’t, provide evidence for your claims. The only delusional one who is believing in lies is you.

        • Angel Rosas

          Only the truth will get you out. Jesus is real.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Only the truth will get you out. Jesus is real.

          But you’re a demonstrable liar, so anything you say is rightly discounted.

        • fuzzykat

          That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Prove that Jizzsus is real, turd burglar.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You work in a deluded way. It’s all a lie, and you believe in it.

          You’re a demonstrated liar, so nothing you say should be believed.

        • Angel Rosas

          Yes, because it’s true.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re a demonstrated liar.

          Why should we believe ANYthing you say?

          You’re obviously attention-hungry and malign…are you the ‘serpent’ your book talks about?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Prove it, dildo69.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Um, because it’s true. It’s literally a change of mind. Believe.

          Psychosis and schizophrenia are ALSO changes of mind. Changes of mind aren’t always good, when not informed by EVIDENCE.

          Belief can’t be compelled. Either something IS, and can be demonstrated, or it *isn’t*, and then disbelief is the greatest wisdom.

          When you believe you can breathe water sufficiently to wear lead boots and step off a boat in the middle of the ocean, *without* any retrieval method short of walking to short, and TRY IT, *then* I’ll consider ‘belief’ in your delusional superstition.

        • Angel Rosas

          Belief requires faith. To do so, requires faith. I’ll walk, but I won’t tempt my God.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Belief requires faith.

          Belief requires *evidence*.

          Faith is what YOUR KIND uses when reality won’t play your silly games, and you try to claim that big crack in the coherence of your worldview is a feature rather than a particularly egregious bug.

        • Angel Rosas

          no, it’s simply the truth. To walk in it requires courage, but that’s far better than the world.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          no, it’s simply the truth.

          Leaning on Heb 11:1, I see.

          But faith is the *claim*, so it CAN’T be the evidence without violating all the rules of logic, especially Assuming the Consequent.

          I mean sheesh, kid, are you so wet behind the ears that you don’t know that?

        • Bob Jase

          If you find the world so awful then leave it.

        • Greg G.

          I read that astronaut Buzz Aldrin took communion on the moon. If they can put a Christian on the moon, why can’t they put them all on the moon?

        • Ignorant Amos

          Not “all” ffs…you’ll have the “Hasty Generalisation Police” on yer arse.

          Only the bug nutty, bat shit crazy, barking at the moon Christers. Leave the “nice” ones alone.

          Though I think space [pun intended] will still be an issue.

        • Angel Rosas

          A change of mind is good, when it isn’t deluded. Don’t change your mind into something bad.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          A change of mind is good, when it isn’t deluded. Don’t change your mind into something bad.

          Since you’re a liar, and apparently deluded based on your posts here, that’s downright disingenuous.

          I think you ought to take your own advice, though.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          You’re ALREADY deluded, wanker69.

        • 3vil5triker .

          Um, all this tells us is that you believe its true, not that it actually is. If the whole thing was fake but you had been deceived and brainwashed into believing it anyways, probably by other people who had been deceived themselves, you would still be telling us the exact same thing.

          So, how do you propose we resolve this dilemma? What can you tell us that wouldn’t also be said by someone who had been tricked into believing a lie?

        • Angel Rosas

          You would probably believe fake stuff, instead of reality.

        • 3vil5triker .

          Oh, absolutely, I mean, I used to believe in the Jehova’s Witnesses. The same thing would apply to most of the atheists around here: we used to believe in lots of fake stuff instead of reality. I’m pretty sure you would consider many of the religions that we used to believe in to be outright frauds, even if they marketed themselves as the “true” version of Christianity.

          Look, we’ve been burned by this before. We know from first hand experience just how susceptible we can be to being tricked into believing fake stuff, so we get extra defensive when someone comes around doing and saying the same things we’ve heard a thousand times before.

          So again, how do you propose we resolve this? Because as things stand right now, even if you had the truth on your side, we can’t tell the difference; you are acting in the same way peddlers of a fake belief would act. Followers of a fraudulent religion that worshiped a non-existent god would also be telling people that their religion is true and to just believe.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You would probably believe fake stuff, instead of reality.

          You’re lying, as that’s what you do.

          And you’re *projecting*, showing us all what you’re really made of and afraid of, despite yourself.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Says the dipshit69 who wants to fellate69 a Jewish lich on a stick.

        • Angel Rosas

          Nah, i believe because it’s the truth. Signs and wonders. It’s the truth, simple.

        • 3vil5triker .

          You already replied to that message, to which I already replied in turn. But you’ve still not addressed anything I said.

          You say: “Nah, i believe because it’s the truth. Signs and wonders. It’s the truth, simple”, but as I keep pointing out, somebody who believed in a lie would say the exact same thing, so this is getting us nowhere. All kinds of fake religions also point to having witnessed “signs and wonders”, but they either fall apart under scrutiny or the clams are unverifiable, which makes them useless for determining if they’re real.

          So we’re just where we started.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nah, i believe because it’s the truth. Signs and wonders. It’s the truth, simple.

          Since you’re a demonstrated liar, all that you say can be justly discounted.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          No, it’s a delusion.

    • fuzzykat

      Meh

    • Lark62

      My unicorn’s love is eternal. She loves you.

      Compare and contrast my statement with your statement. On what basis is one less ludicrous than the other?

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Unicorns are at least *cool*

        😉

      • Angel Rosas

        Because God is real.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Nope.

          You can keep lying to us and yourself, and being unpleasant about it, and all it will earn you is social ostracism and an eventual ban.

          Why are you so perverted that annoying others for ANY attention, even disapproval, is so important to you?

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Prove it, anal69 wart.

      • Angel Rosas

        Love truth, and it will set you free. Only it will set you free.

        • Clancy

          That’s why I’m an atheist. I’m free of the foolishness of religion.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Love truth, and it will set you free. Only it will set you free.

          ‘Truth’ is slippery, *facts* can help one cope.

          And since you’re a liar, you’re to be disbelieved by reflex.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          And the truth is, Harry Potter sacrificed his life to save you from Voldemort.

      • Artor

        My unicorn despises deliberately moronic ash-holes like Angel.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      I suddenly realized that’s a setup line that’s just TOO good:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRNZHFr69t4

      • Angel Rosas

        It’s true. You honor the 10 commandments even if unknowingly. Hitting your mom is not honoring your parents. You go to Hell if you pick it.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Horeshit69, liar. The Ten Commandments are more like “the Ten Suggestions.”

        • Angel Rosas

          You don’t follow them? Don’t honor your parents?

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          I notice that you *conspicuously* don’t mention the first four…and that you’re still trying to lay clumsy ‘traps’.

          And being honored is EARNED, as respect is earned…there are too many biological parents out there who had no business ever being such, and NO, they don’t deserve honor.

          Meanwhile, thank you SO much, you little 69asshole, for reminding me my parents are DEAD. Go fuck off back under your moldy, slimy ‘bible’ lean-to and play GTA while indulging your ‘unnatural’ vices and leave us ADULTS to carry on a conversation.

        • Angel Rosas

          Don’t hurt your mom. You wouldn’t want to hurt them. I can understand not having parents.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Don’t hurt your mom. You wouldn’t want to hurt them. I can understand not having parents.

          You sociopathic lying piece of 69SHIT.

          Don’t EVER let my parents names pass your lips again, scum.

          They’re gone, and I mourn my loss of their companionship. I take comfort in knowing they’re not in pain any more, as their bodies were failing, as all do with time.

          But any 69BULLSHIT about an ‘afterlife’ will show you to be the inadequate, heartless, ghoulish SCUM you’ve been demonstrating you are up and down this thread, preying on what you *believe* is somebody who’s emotionally weak, and thus susceptible to infection by your mind virus out of a desperate need for solace.

        • Angel Rosas

          Don’t hurt your parents/ Not good. Have love. Your parents are in a better place by now. May God Bless.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          Don’t hurt your parents/ Not good. Have love. Your parents are in a better place by now. May God Bless.

          Says the hateful, manipulative LIAR trying to gain an edge of dominance by probing a scar. YOUR KIND deserve far worse than the world will do to you, merely because the rest of us are *better* than you, and that without your ‘god’.

          My parents are *dead*, and your ‘soul’ 69bullshit is designed to reopen wounds to weaken people, making them susceptible to your hateful mind poison.

          May you suffer sorrow overflowing with no surcease for your hateful attempts at subversion of consent.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Passive/aggressive tactics so the debased cunt thinks it’s mainted the moral high ground. Christer oxygen thief.

        • Does her know you’re spending your time here with grown adults who know far more of life and the world than you?

        • Lucy

          Harassing them on their own blog, for that matter?

          Not even my Christian Scientist grandfather would have been happy to see any of his sons harassing atheists about Christianity on the Internet, if the Internet had existed in those days.

        • Ignorant Amos

          You’re a fucking crackpot.

          Should respect be given to a mother who beats their three year old daughter with a machete?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXCOqkxJPyk

          Fuck off ya dickhead.

        • Norman Parron

          I don’t respect anyone jes cuz…they must earn it. You go on & on about parents…what about the others that I don’t respect or follow??? Well not true I’ve never ‘murdered’ any one nor boiled a kid in its mother’s milk!

        • DeadBabyJoke

          “And being honored is EARNED, as respect is earned…there are too many biological parents out there who had no business ever being such, and NO, they don’t deserve honor.”
          FUCKING69 THIS!!!^^^ This what most people can’t grasp.

        • Ignorant Amos

          And the reason religion prevails. Undeserved and unquestioned respect for one’s parents fuckwiittery.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          I never showed my parents or other adults undeserved and unquestioned respect. I’m not saying that I didn’t respect my parents and others, I did, but only if they earned it.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Nope.

        • Ignorant Amos

          Yep, nowhere are they refered to as “commandments” or “mitzvot”.

          Ten subject headers?

          But what about the so-called “Ten Commandments,” the words recorded in Exodus 20, the words that the Creator Himself wrote on the two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai (Ex. 31:18), which Moses smashed upon seeing the idolatry of the golden calf (Ex. 32:19)? In the Torah, these words are never referred to as the Ten Commandments. In the Torah, they are called Aseret ha-D’varim (Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4). In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d’varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.

          The Aseret ha-Dibrot are not understood as individual mitzvot; rather, they are categories or classifications of mitzvot. Each of the 613 mitzvot can be subsumed under one of these ten categories, some in more obvious ways than others. For example, the mitzvah not to work on Shabbat rather obviously falls within the category of remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy. The mitzvah to fast on Yom Kippur fits into that category somewhat less obviously: all holidays are in some sense a Sabbath, and the category encompasses any mitzvah related to sacred time. The mitzvah not to stand aside while a person’s life is in danger fits somewhat obviously into the category against murder. It is not particularly obvious, however, that the mitzvah not to embarrass a person fits within the category against murder: it causes the blood to drain from your face thereby shedding blood.

          http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm

          And we won’t even get into the fact that the first ten were smashed, so version 2.0 had to be knocked out. And they are a different ten.

          Poor Angel Rosas…too ignorant to know just how ignorant a fuckwit he/she is…the naive mindwankery is flabbergasting.

        • DeadBabyJoke

          Too bad Angel Rosas is too stupid and willfully ignorant to understand this. 10(10100) upvotes.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          You’re STILL here failing at the ‘great’ commandment and the ‘great’ commission?

          Don’t you have homework to do? After all, if you flunk out, that’ll be just one MORE thing we can make fun of you about (IF we bother to think of you at all, that is…)

        • JustAnotherAtheist2

          I hope Angel is a Poe, because the alternative is just too pitiable.

        • Artor

          A Poe would probably have revealed a glimmer of intelligence somewhere in there. I see no sign of any such thing.

        • Phil Rimmer

          Think, you’re right. This all seems too clumsy

        • Ignorant Amos

          There is a mastery in good Poe. It’s catch 22. If it’s really good Poe, how would we know?

        • Mmm… yeah… and women only get battered if they choose it…

          The victim is never responsible for the abuser’s actions.

        • Ignorant Amos

          I bet you don’t even know the Decalogue…or that there isn’t even ten commandments. Fool.

  • eric

    We believe that God is rational, and that he created an orderly world which mirrors His rationality.

    How exactly does this make Christianity uniquely inspiring of science? Judaism and Islam share the same God, so theological uniqueness goes right out the window right there. On top of that, Chinese mythos have orderly heavens. Apollo is the Greek God of logic and reason – and those people practically invented logic.

    Moreover, the person/ideology proposing some hypothesis is irrelevant to it’s confirmation or rejection by science. Newton rejected the Trinity. Does his contributions mean we should reject it because he did? No (certainly atheists may reject the trinity for other reasons, but nobody should reject it using the logic “Newton explained gravity, sooooo…”). Einstein was similarly unorthodox. Does relativity mean his beliefs about the creator have weight? Of course not. Christianity posits a rational universe? Bully for it. That provides no logical reason to think Jesus was the son of God.

    • JustAnotherAtheist2

      I also can never get my head around the idea that a godless reality would be just chaos and irrationality. What reason is there to think this?

      • Yeah, they make a lot such bald assumptions. In fact though you could easily argue the opposite (and some have) since then, for instance, without gods which can change things around as they like that might make science easier.

  • DeadBabyJoke

    No, it’s not real, dildo69. Put up or shut up. And no transgendered people aren’t wrong in their views, you are. I doubt that you can come up with an actual reason other than “The Bible (allegedly) says so.”

    • Angel Rosas

      No, it’s true. Was the transgender kid right? Is strip pole dancing for a kid right? You want to say it’s wrong if it’s in the Bible, but anywhere else and it is “ambiguous” or you don’t want to say. Just goes to show the antiChrist spirit. Transgenders are wrong in multiating their own body, and having others condone it and engage in it. It’s Sodom.

      • DeadBabyJoke

        “No, it’s true.”
        Another worthless assertion.

        “Was the transgender kid right?”
        Here’s a question: How do the LGBTQ affect you, personally? “Because it’s icky” isn’t a valid reason.

        “Is strip pole dancing for a kid right?”
        It’s better than Christians raping69, molesting69, sexualizing69 and marrying children. Christians are in no position to talk about “protecting children,” when it’s Christians that children need protection from

        “You want to say it’s wrong if it’s in the Bible, but anywhere else and it is “ambiguous” or you don’t want to say”
        Liar. I’m not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, so anything that the Bible says is irrelevant. Despite the arrogant delusions of Christians, nonbelievers and the LGBTQ are under no obligation to follow or conform to your idiotic69 religious beliefs. Period.

        “Just goes to show the antiChrist spirit.”
        No, that’d be Christians, who like to use their religion as a weapon, but then throw a temper tantrum when people push back and criticize them for it. And how Christians ignore vast swathes of the Bible when it’s convenient for them.

        “Transgenders are wrong in multiating their own body, and having others condone it and engage in it.”
        No, that’s just you’re stupid69, uninformed opinion. And you haven’t given an actual reason for condemning transgendered people. The Bible says nothing about them at all. Even though “the Bible ALLEGEDLY says so” isn’t a valid argument.

        “It’s Sodom.”
        Sorry, but you’re a liar. At no point in the Bible did it ever say or imply that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of the LGBTQ. The Bible EXPLICITLY states that they were destroyed because of inhospitality, cruelty, apathy, adultery, lying and strengthening evildoers. The claim that it was because of homosexuality has no biblical basis.

  • Lucy

    You still are one. The fact that you chose the only song from Joseph, King of Dreams that showed a character failing and didn’t even realize it only highlights that fact.

    And while I am cis, I also know that yes, sometimes people’s gender doesn’t match their body. It happens. It is an actual difference in the brain, not merely a “view”. And not all of them are as blatantly obvious as your anecdote example (which still isn’t proof, any more than gymnastics is proof of the devil). Some transgender folk even defy the stereotypes of the gender they identify with yet are still trans, which wouldn’t happen if they merely “wanted” to be one or the other.

    Because if it was just a want, trans women who aren’t girly and trans men with a feminine flair would simply have continued to identify with the gender they were assigned at birth rather than putting up with the ridicule they get for identifying with their actual gender and then defying that gender’s role rather than staying with the gender that seems to fit their personality socially.

  • Vance Morgan

    I find your posts and perspective to be both accurate and enjoyable–for the most part. But I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that “Christian” is a very, very, very broad tent. The “Christians” whom you identify and throw under the bus regularly on this site deserve it–but don’t even come close to being the only Christians out there. Be sure that, on occasion, you recognize that there is a very specific type of Christian you are targeting. The loudest, perhaps, and those whom the media mistakenly believe are the only kind of Christian. Don’t make the same mistake.

    • A very good point.

    • It’s admittedly difficult sometimes as right as you’re, knowing they’re the most visible and most disrespectful towards not believers or those who follow other beliefs.

    • Artor

      We are generally aware that there are plenty of decent Xians out there. Most of my family, for instance. But they are not the ones running the country, or in charge of the narrative. If they outnumber their more toxic brethren, they need to step up and show us, because it’s not readily apparent.

    • Ignorant Amos

      When this issue is raised, the point is made. Christians who leave everyone else alone, are not the target. The problem is, that Christians that leave everyone else alone, are very few and far between. The very nature of Christianity is to proselytise, which by definition, isn’t leaving folk alone.

      Just the other day your concern was addressed on this very blog.

      That said, Christians who leave everyone else alone, are giving succour to the eejits. Since the eejits are also bringing the “nice” Christians into disrepute by association. Very rarely do we see Christian on Christian action on matters of woo-woo. Though it’s not never.

    • I see that. I try to say “some Christians” when that’s what I mean, but I’m sure it may come across as too broad a brush sometimes. Thanks.

  • Angel Rosas

    Only it will set you free.

    • Michael Neville

      You keep saying the same thing over and over again and nobody is buying it. Why are you here? You know that we’re not impressed by your bumpersticker one-liners.

      • Clancy

        You think he’s a bot?

        • Michael Neville

          I think he’s a teenager who’s preaching to the heretics and apostates but doing it very poorly.

        • Bob Jase

          I think Don Camp assigned a bunch of his students to annoy us as he can’t answer even simple questions.

    • RichardSRussell

      Why bring a Stephen King novel into this?

      • Artor

        Because Angel is completely unable to tell fiction from reality?

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      Only it will set you free.

      You’re a demonstrated liar and so should be ignored, or at least disbelieved by reflex.

    • DeadBabyJoke

      How about you free us from your incoherent gibberish by fucking69 off from this website?

    • Lord Backwater

      Prune juice will set you free.

  • Angel Rosas

    It’s real.

    • The Virgo Cluster of Galaxies too. I will pray it for you.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      It’s real.

      You’re a demonstrated liar and so should be ignored, or at least disbelieved by reflex.

      • DeadBabyJoke

        I keep pointing that out to this dumbass69, as futile as it is.

  • David B. Appleton

    A deepity is a statement that, to the extent that it’s true, is trivial, and to the extent that it’s profound, is false.

    On the surface it’s terribly deep, but way down underneath it’s awfully shallow.

    • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

      ^^^ISWYDT

      😉

  • eric

    909! with no change at the top.

    I will *hope* it’s a vigorous discussion between believers and nones. I *expect* there’s a lot of advertising, bots, and repetitious posts…

  • RichardSRussell

    Did you know that the number of mathematical equations in the Bible is exactly equal to the number of deities in the Universe? Astonishing but true! One* might even consider it a miracle!

    – – – – –

    *and we know which one, don’t we?

    • Greg G.

      1 Kings 7:23 gives us a ratio to determine the value of the diameter of the circle to its circumference. 2 Chronicles 4:2 validates the value.

  • flexilis

    I have been watching this comment thread from afar and occasionally dipping into it. My question:

    Is Angel Rosas trying for the Guinness Record for the largest number of inane comments on a Patheos nonreligious post, or for the greatest average inanity? Either way it must be some kind of a record. Kudos to those who have tried to engage and educate.

    • DeadBabyJoke

      It’s like talking to a mentally disabled brick wall.

    • Ignorant Amos

      I think I can safely say there has been worse over the years. Let’s see how it pans out though.

    • Yes, rather impressive in a backwards sort of way.

      Angel has been shown the door.

      • Ignorant Amos

        Not really that impressive.

        Repeating the same incoherent asinine few words ad nauseam without actually saying anything constructive, is really quite easy and a bit of a gift, if ya ask me.

        Wanna see?