MRAs Make Limbaugh Seem Cuddly

MRAs Make Limbaugh Seem Cuddly March 9, 2012

Man Boobz links to a post by a guy named Chuck Rudd on his blog, Gucci Little Piggies, that makes Rush Limbaugh’s attack on Sandra Fluke seem almost sweet and kind by comparison. Wait till you read this combination of moronic pseudo-science and bigotry. For example, did you know that long fingers make Fluke a lesbian?

But just for fun – and to those who believe in such things as biological markers of behavior and normal distributions of said markers – I want to point to Fluke’s 2d:4d ratio. I’ll use value-neutral language just for fun: people who have a longer ring finger (4d) than index finger (2d) have more testosterone and, some argue, a higher sex drive.

Granted, there is a gap between Fluke’s (non)ring finger and her middle finger, but it seems that her ring finger is quite a bit longer than her index. It’s almost as long as her middle finger. In general, a low 2d:4d ratio in women indicates a greater proclivity towards homosexuality or bisexuality and greater tendency towards aggressiveness and assertiveness. So, yeah, pirate fits.

Um. Okay. And about her being a slut:

I think the term “slut” is too arbitrary to have much meaning in a political context, especially when we don’t actually know anything about the so-called slut’s sexual history. It doesn’t fit Sandra Fluke anyway as we don’t know for sure that she’s heterosexual. This would explain why her performance at Nancy Pelosi’s circus tended to focus on the secondary health benefits of birth control pills.

Fluke is not a “slut”, nor is she a “good citizen” which is what President Obama called her in a press conference held today. Based upon readily observable behavior and on her beliefs about what she and her favorite groups have a right to grab from tax payers and employers, it’s best to call her what she is: a pirate.

As disgusting as that is, his readers are even worse.

forget the fingers… shes got strait up MAN HANDS. But look on the bright side, if she survives the up coming second dark ages, I’m sure she will do a fine job of pulling a plow…

She’ll be fat, unmarried and childless at 39. The perfect white citizen for Numerika…

she reminds me of a cape buffalo. a male cape buffalo…

She’s either a dyke or an absolute fuck machine…

As a fellow Cornellian, my guess is lesbian. Cornell has a decent les population.It also speaks more to a les to demand free birth control as a hand out from the government speaking on behalf of all women when she has no shot of getting pregnant. That’s just the thing lesbians like to do: consider their opinions the worldview of all “womyn”. At a minimum, she was a LUG. Her face and hair are so masculine, she could pass for a male supporting character in “All the President’s Men”…

This finger length analysis from candid photos is nonsense. There are too many knuckle-bends in all directions, combined with skewed camera position, to get an accurate measurement. There has to be some standard for this, such as hands pressed flat against a flat surface, with all fingers together, or each finger extending in a straight line from its source carpal (or metacarpal, whatever it is). Having said that, she looks like a fat, ugly cunt — which is what Rush should have called her, as it does not imply sluttiness…

Her higher testosterone is why she is confident enough to get up and speak in front of Congress and be at the center of a controversial issue. More feminine women would not want anything to do with it.

Gosh, I can’t imagine why anyone would think the attacks on Fluke are evidence of misogyny, can you?

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  • The Lorax

    “Wimmins should stay out of Congress, ’cause they don’t have the balls to do it!”

    *twitch*

    Seriously, all this bullshit is bad enough, but how can she POSSIBLY need birth control to prevent pregnancy AND BE A LESBIAN?!?

    Or is she part of the homosexual agenda that’s going to bring tyranny and anarchy? Is she also a Muslim atheist?

  • alost

    Clearly, Rush is an “entertainer” and never meant for the right-wing at large to adopt his misinformation about Sandra Fluke. In fact, perhaps these posts are just “entertainment” too and shouldn’t be taken seriously? Now THAT’S a joke. Ugh.

    Seriously, the level of sheer insanity here contrasts with how calm, collected and intelligent Sandra has been in her conduct.

  • Captain Mike

    For example, did you know that long fingers make Fluke a lesbian?

    Believe it or not, digit ratio sometimes does predict homosexuality in women. I vaguely remembered reading something about it once, so I did a quick Google and found this:

    http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/readings/homofinger/homo_finger.html

  • Reginald Selkirk

    But if she’s a Lesbian, then all that tax money she’s spending on contraception is a waste.

  • d cwilson

    But look on the bright side, if she survives the up coming second dark ages, I’m sure she will do a fine job of pulling a plow…

    Well, at least they’re admiting that their goal is to start a new dark age.

  • P.Z. Myers tackled the predictive power – or lack thereof – of finger length ratios here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/03/08/digit-length-ratios-and-overinterpreting-the-data/

    It’s just as silly and useless as you’d think.

  • Captain Mike

    That’s what I like about Free Thought Blogs. I learn things.

  • Getting to this late, but adding to what PZ wrote in that post, you can’t even see the digit ratio merely by visual inspection as these clowns are suggesting. The measurements have to be taken from the finger base at the joint (left hand only correlates) and the relative positions of the joints conceal the true relative length upon visual inspection. And then, the differences in length actually turn out to be quite small.

  • Okay, what does “MRA” stand for? Male Right-wing Asshole?

  • Aquaria

    #9:

    It’s supposed to be Men’s Rights Advocate, but it turns out that they’re all actually what you called them, but they’re too fucking cowardly to admit it.

    Whiny-ass titty babies is another term that applies to them.

  • Ben P

    Okay, what does “MRA” stand for? Male Right-wing Asshole?

    I swear this came up here just the other day…but I could be misremembering from PZ or another blog.

    “MRA” is an acronym for “Men’s Rights Advocate.”

    There are a number of such communities on the internet and they run the gamut from a little unusual to far out wingnut in terms of beliefs.

    The relatively reasonable ones advocate on topics like substantive unfairness in some state domestic relations laws when it comes to child custody, alimony and child support. These are at least semi-legitimate concerns.

    The more extreme ones delve into a bizarre array of beliefs generally tempered with a heavy dose of misogyny and hatred of anything and everything “feminist.” Speculating on the sexual orientation of women (particularly those who have rejected them) is common.

    Scrolling down the “Gucci Piggies” blog we have posts on “Rape Culture,” (Specifically criticizing feminist claims about rape); at least two posts referencing PUA (Pick Up Artist) ideas on male-female intereaction (all women want assertive dominant men and “beta” men are doomed to being taken advantage of by women); a post addressing the issue of “misidentified paternity;” etc.

    That gives you an overview of the ideas advanced.

    a post referencing PUA (Pick Up Artist) ideas on relationships,

  • Just to add to what Ben P said, there is a great deal of downplaying rape when the victim is female, and playing it up when the victim is male or the perpetrator is female.

    They also have a strange (but unsurprising) obsession with evolutionary psychology and a propensity to reduce all human interactions to something that can be explained by their ev-psyche theory de jour.

    There are also a great many of them who are just pissed off that pretty girls won’t date them. They seem to think they are entitled and that women who are choosy about dates are pretty much just bitches. But once they hit the magic age of like 29 or 30 they must all turn to the lowly betas because the alphas won’t have anything to do with them. But would they themselves date a less attractive woman? Nope. They belittle women who aren’t “hot”, yet they think that any woman can get sex no matter what her appearance or social skills. There are no beta or omega females, or something. Therefore good-looking women owe it to these “nice guys” to date them. Or at least have sex with them.

    Ed, just know this: you would do well to rename the Bryan Fischer award after almost any one of the MRA luminaries.

  • rowanvt

    The ring fingers on both my hands are visibly longer than my index fingers. I’m a tomboy. I’m aggressive and assertive. I do not act stereotypical simpering feminine in any way, shape, or form.

    I’m also a completely heterosexual woman.

    There are no words I can say in response to those man-brats that won’t paint me as a complete asshole, and that makes me irate.

  • Infophile

    Seriously, all this bullshit is bad enough, but how can she POSSIBLY need birth control to prevent pregnancy AND BE A LESBIAN?!?

    Identifying as a lesbian doesn’t preclude having sex with men. For instance, I have a friend who identifies as a lesbian because she could only ever be romantically attracted to another woman. She can, however, be sexually aroused by men.

  • laurentweppe

    So, Rush wanted to masturbate with the help of videos of Sandra Fluke having sex, but Chuck Rudd only needed a photograph of two or her fingers to reach the same result. I admit, Rush Limbaugh is beaten here.

  • Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

    But at least now we know what the H stands for in Jesus H. Christ; it stands for haploid.

    Where I come from it stands for “hang-gliding”.

  • Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

    Oops. Rong thred.

  • StevoR

    Area Man – March 9, 2012 at 4:34 pm :

    Okay, what does “MRA” stand for? Male Right-wing Asshole?

    Mens Rights Advocate but also Male Rape Apologist & better Male Supwemacist.

  • philipp

    You know the strangest thing here? ‘Gucci Little Piggies’ is a line from a Radiohead song.

    Yes, this Alpha Male rape-apologist listens to Radiohead.

  • Aquaria

    The relatively reasonable ones advocate on topics like substantive unfairness in some state domestic relations laws when it comes to child custody, alimony and child support. These are at least semi-legitimate concerns.

    Semi-legitimate is being generous.

    Child custody follows some simple principles that aren’t about sticking it to the poor widdle menz: Judges tend to grant child custody to the primary caregiver. SInce that is typically the woman in the average divorce, women tend to get custody of children. If men want custody of their kids (and not asking for it to stick it to their wives, a frequent trick these MRA scumbags pull), then take care of said children as much as your wife does. The vast majority of men don’t do as much as their wives in that department, and they know it, if they’re honest with themselves. MRAs aren’t honest–with anyone.

    Child support? This is really simple, guys: Children don’t raise themselves. They need food, clothes, doctor visits, medicine, vaccinations, a roof over their heads, school supplies–on and on and on. Those things don’t come free, and the caregiver’s time is also worth something.

    Ultimately, though, if you bring them into the world, then you need to contribute to raising them. Duh. Don’t want to pay child support? Don’t have any kids. It’s really that simple. And all you men who gripe about how much you pay in child support? Shut the fuck up, all of you, especially those who think women are living high on the hog on “your” money. They’re not. They’re not even breaking even, unless you’re one of the 1%.

    Alimony? Women who don’t work full time are more likely to get alimony than women who do, and women who remarry stop getting alimony. The choices are simple, men, beyond the most obvious one of never getting married, since people who don’t get married don’t pay alimony. So here are the essentials if you ignore that and get married anyway: 1) Do what it takes to keep your wife from leaving you. Simple, huh? 2) Don’t demand that your wife stay at home rather than work. The state doesn’t want to be responsible for propping her up until she can get back into the workforce with a reasonable standard of living; you’re the one who took her out of it, you support her. Simple. 3) If your wife does work, make sure she hasn’t had to take menial jobs that give her lots of flexibility, and/or worked less than 40 hours a week to tend kids and have your dinner on the table when you got home. If her jobs were more disposable than yours to make your life easier, you’re going to be paying alimony. 4) Don’t be an asshole after you divorce and she starts dating again. Remember: If she re-marries, you don’t pay anymore alimony. 5) If she decides not to re-marry, leave her the hell alone, anyway. In fact, that’s a pretty good rule for all divorced people after the divorce: Leave your ex alone, unless there’s a damned good reason to be in contact.

    Honestly, life is pretty simple for men who take responsibility for their own actions and think about someone other than themselves, rather than going the MRA route. Those assholes apparently think that their male privilege entitles them to get their way at everything, and that their money and time and wishes are more important than those of their children or their ex-wife.

    They’re not more important, but behind every MRA is a wah wah wah titty baby who doesn’t like it that women matter, too.

  • Ben P

    Child support? This is really simple, guys: Children don’t raise themselves. They need food, clothes, doctor visits, medicine, vaccinations, a roof over their heads, school supplies–on and on and on. Those things don’t come free, and the caregiver’s time is also worth something.

    That’s not what the issue is at all.

    In most states child support is subject to a formula where it’s a percentage of your income. The custodial parent petitions the court for child support from the non-custodial parent.

    Suppose the non-custodial parent has a solid income and is 100% current on child support, but then loses their job and can no longer afford payments conditioned on their prior income level. They fall behind and file a petition with the court to modify the child support. The petition takes several months to be heard and the non-custodial parent falls further behind. When the petition is heard, the court tells the non-custodial parent that under “deadbeat dad” rules, the court won’t modify the child support declaration until he’s current on his payments.

    For a second scenario, suppose the non-custodial parent is a truck driver. The administrative body charged with regulating child support determines he’s behind and under state rules on child support has the parent’s driver’s license suspended, substantially limiting the non-custodial parents ability to make an income. Then gets told he can’t get the license reinstated until he’s current on his income.

    All of these rules are supported by the same impassioned argument that you just made. Kids need money, if you didn’t want to pay child support, you shouldn’t have had a kid, so suck it up and pay. Except working in the law I can tell you that hard and fast rules almost always cause substantial unfairness at the margins.

    I’m sure you can find examples of deadbeat dads, but reality is child support enforcement in most states is very robust. “Deadbeat dads” with substantial incomes who refuse to pay are rare. The much much more common scenario is that the mothers talks to the DHS and says the father hasn’t paid child support in months and learns (a) the father is in prison, (b) the father is on drugs and has no job or otherwise has no job and no income or assets.

    As far as custody, I’m on a list of attorneys where we get pro-bono referrals from the bar association. A substantial percentage of the people who have called have this story with slight variations. “When my wife wanted a divorce I didn’t have any money to hire a lawyer, so I didn’t contest it, the judge granted her sole custody. Now she’s on meth and I really worry about our two kids, but I don’t have the money to hire a lawyer now either, what can I do?”

  • MRA = Massively Rationalizing Authoritarians?

  • frankboyd

    I’d like to note that this seeking out of some anonymous blogger to be held up and denounced makes utter nonsense on certain people’s earlier claims that “Oh we don’t need to denounce hideous misogyny directed at conservative women because it’s only be done by minor players (even if they are major comedians/politicians/commentators)”

    No, it means that you are fine with misogyny – extending to the most grotesque rape jokes – is okay s long as it is directed at women who don’t share your views 100%. Because they’re not considered really human by you.

  • dingojack

    I say Cranky, found of that evidence for equivalence yet?

    (Not holding my breath) Dingo

  • slc1

    Re frankboyd @ #23

    Just to prove that Mr. boyd has a bone up his ass, I used to refer to Ann Coulter, who I am sure that he would consider a conservative commentator, as “tranny Annie” and was taken to task here by a number of commenters, including among others Mr. Michael Heath.

  • Homo Straminus

    Re: frankboyd–anyone who tries to argue the tribalism you describe wouldnt find a supportive audience here. These “certain people” don’t immediately come to mind, in any case.

    But aside from that, frankboyd is just concern trolling. “Oh! You shouldn’t call out THAT person unless you spend a lot of time calling out THIS one!” Well, sorry, cupcake. Ed found an idiot and told us about him. Whether this sterling example of an MRA deserves ridicule had nothing to do with whether or not anyone else does. Sorry.

  • Azkyroth

    Okay, what does “MRA” stand for? Male Right-wing Asshole?

    “Men’s Rights Activist.” Their term. Think “People’s Democratic Republic.”

    We really ought to stop using it. Concedes too much.

  • Azkyroth

    There are no words I can say in response to those man-brats that won’t paint me as a complete asshole, and that makes me irate.

    Responding with appropriate anger and disgust to genuine complete assholes doesn’t make you an asshole. The opposite conceit is perhaps the most effective weapon in the arsensals of assholes.

  • Azkyroth

    As far as custody, I’m on a list of attorneys where we get pro-bono referrals from the bar association. A substantial percentage of the people who have called have this story with slight variations. “When my wife wanted a divorce I didn’t have any money to hire a lawyer, so I didn’t contest it, the judge granted her sole custody. Now she’s on meth and I really worry about our two kids, but I don’t have the money to hire a lawyer now either, what can I do?”

    I guess those men should have “done whatever it takes” to stop their drug-abusing, negligent wife from leaving them. Because, you know, wrongful behavior on the part of women never happens. They’re not actually people, they’re idealized, idolized martyr abstractions.

    I mean, sure, it might have seemed like I struggled for years to make a marriage to a pathological liar with serious untreated psychological issues work, and ultimately didn’t file for divorce until she moved out with a guy who was “NOT HER BOYFRIEND” and withdrew the entire balance of our daughter’s college savings account for her own use, after, despite being the only part of the couple who was willing to cultivate any marketable skills, ALSO taking over the primary child-care duties after I caught her trying to drive drunk with our daughter, while working AND going to college nearly full time. That was just me avoiding my responsibilities. Right?

    Aquaria, I don’t doubt that there are many cases where your sexist generalizations do hold, but simply erasing experiences like mine is inexcusable.

  • Chiroptera

    Ben P, #21:

    The impression I’ve always had when I’ve heard of scenarios like that described by Ben P is that child support and child custody laws are being used as yet another tool to humiliate the poor and lower working classes.

    If scenarios like Ben P describes really are a problem, then the solution is relatively simple; allow case workers and/or judges to take into account the circumstances of the case.

    One reason that such solutions aren’t in place (if, in fact, they are not) is because, first, we like to hurt the poor and don’t really want to change the system, and, second, because the MRAs and their fellow travellers sow confusion and distraction by blaming the whole mess on feminists and try to gut entirely the protections the laws give (or try to give) to divorced mothers and their children.

  • Captain Mike

    If anyone is actually interested in men, boys and their issues, there’s a blog you should check out:

    http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/

    I just found it myself, but if the people running it are MRAs, they do an incredibly good job of hiding it. I found it on Natalie Reed’s blogroll if that helps.