Televangelist Brought Down the Berlin Wall

Televangelist Brought Down the Berlin Wall September 7, 2012

David Barton isn’t the only wingnut who invents his own delusional history. Kenneth Copeland told Barton on his own TV show that the Berlin wall came down because German pastors were reading his books and praying for the wall to come down. This is funny stuff.

httpv://youtu.be/KxsIrBTLhTY


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  • cry4turtles

    I couldn’t watch the clip. I had an exboyfriend who looked like Copeland. He tried to kill me. Copeland’s voice and face sends me into PTSD.

  • tbp1

    I don’t have those associations with Copeland, of course, but there’s something about him that just creeps me out (more than other televangelists, even).

  • raven

    Sort of trivial really.

    I’m waiting for Cindy Jacobs or Rick Joyner to claim to have defeated an invasion of the Greys or Reptiloid UFO aliens.

  • Stevarious

    Man you can tell by the halting, unsure way he speaks that he’s completely making it up on the spot, too.

    @cry4turtles

    Ugh. I’m sorry that happened to you, I wouldn’t wish it on anybody…

    …but would it be inappropriate for me to say that at least you don’t have those memories associated with the likeness of someone likable?

  • The wall just went “pssssbbbttt”? The people with sledge hammers had nothing to do with it?

  • kraut

    The typical lying christian – I just hope that becomes a meme (chsristian = lying), saves us a lot of hassle in identifying whom to trust.

    I don’t have to view the video, having followed at the time the development in the former GDR (I am an expat german as you might gather from my name).

    What brought the govt of the GDR down was a popular uprising, in which some pastors had a role to play. And it started with a mass exodus of east germans through the suddenly open Hungarian border in 1989.

    What also is important that the move to send troops against demonstrators was stopped at the local level, avoiding bloodshed.

    “On 9 November, in an effort to stave off the protests and the mass exodus, the government crafted new travel regulations that allowed East Germans who wanted to go to West Germany (either permanently or for a visit) to do so directly through East Germany. However, no one on the Politburo told the government’s de facto spokesman, East Berlin party leader Günter Schabowski, that the new regulations were due to take effect the next day. When a reporter asked them this, Schabowski assumed they were already in effect and replied, “As far as I know … immediately, without delay.” When excerpts from the press conference were broadcast on West German television, it prompted large crowds to gather at the checkpoints near the Berlin Wall. Unprepared, outnumbered and unwilling to use force to keep them back, the guards finally let them through. In the following days increasing numbers of East Germans took advantage of this to visit West Germany or West Berlin (where they were met by West German government gifts of DM100 each, called “greeting money”).”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_East_Germany

    I tried unsuccessfully to find the influence of prayer in the achievements of the citizens of the former GDR.

    But again – lying for jesus (or for your bank account) is a standard practice of christians, especially of the preachy kind.

  • TxSkeptic

    “… and just suddenly one day, it just, ppfffttt, it just, down it went.”

    Hilarious, it just magically fell down. He doesn’t even give the standard conservative credit to Reagan.

  • busterggi

    I’m shocked.

    Everyone knows Ronald Reagan tore the Berlin Wall down with his bare teeth.

  • vmanis1

    Hmmm…`post hoc, ergo propter hoc’.

  • d cwilson

    I thought Saint Ron knocked it down with just a stern gaze.

  • timberwoof

    He stared at the ass end of a ship?

  • dean

    Everyone knows Ronald Reagan tore the Berlin Wall down with his bare teeth.

    I thought Saint Ron knocked it down with just a stern gaze.

    You forget that the accepted conservative myth is that President Reagan carved up everything those commie ruskies touched with America’s credit card.

  • grumpyoldfart

    You believe my lies and I’ll believe yours.

    It’s a system used by Christians for 2,000 years – works a treat.

  • It’s all a lie!!

    Everyone knows it was David Hasselhof who brought down the Berlin Wall!!

  • stoferb

    He’s ofcourse wrong. The Berlin Wall fell along with the entire Iron Curtain because a mormon prophet had prophecied that it would happen!

  • laurentweppe

    Lies!

    Everyone knows the Berlin Wall fell thanls to Sarkozy’s time machine.

  • F

    Apparently, no pastors were praying between the time of the partitioning of Germany and when the wall was torn down.

    I do recall seeing pieces of the wall for sale in department stores after it came down, much like the selling of the ghastly commemorative coins (frequently featuring 9/11).

  • Once I prayed for rain. After a few weeks of prayer, it rained. Prayer works.

  • kraut

    “I do recall seeing pieces of the wall for sale in department stores after it came down, much like the selling of the ghastly commemorative coins (frequently featuring 9/11).”

    I do not think that is comparable. After all: the coming down of the wall was a success by tens of thousands, it was a successful popular upraising.

    What was 9/11 – blowback?

  • I thought Saint Ron knocked it down with just a stern gaze.

    Okay, that wins at least a half an internet.

    This is a trend. The last few times I found something really clever in Ed’s commentariat and then looked to see who said it, d cwilson keeps popping up.

    Keep it up.

  • amadan

    Damn! And I though it was because the first OT VIII Scientologists had just “rolled of the production line”!

  • candiron

    It is simple minded to try to tar all Christians with this brush. Here Chris Rosebrough of fightingforthefaith takes Copeland to task for his false teaching on this matter:

    http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/09/did-kenneth-copeland-bring-down-the-berlin-wall.html

  • kraut

    “It is simple minded to try to tar all Christians with this brush.”

    No, it is that the majority of those who call themselves or are called by others spokemen/women for christianity are almost regularly involved in lying, subterfuge, deception.

    It is not simple minded, it is experience. There might be some christians out there who do not lie for jesus – I have however not read/heard them to be considered spokesmen/women for christianity.

    If you feel that strongly about being associated with that unsavory lot, then prove to me/us that lying is not part of the message of your saviour (i.e lying against science, lying about gender equality, lying about sexual equality, lying about economic equality, social justice etc. lies, lies and more lies, from fundamentalist teabaggers to catholic lay persons) by standing up and shouting those spokespersons down.

  • The typical lying christian – I just hope that becomes a meme (chsristian = lying), saves us a lot of hassle in identifying whom to trust.

    […]

    What brought the govt of the GDR down was a popular uprising, in which some pastors had a role to play. And it started with a mass exodus of east germans through the suddenly open Hungarian border in 1989. What also is important that the move to send troops against demonstrators was stopped at the local level, avoiding bloodshed.

    Wait, are you saying that the fall of the Berlin Wall wasn’t caused by this Copeland guy sending religious literature over the border into East Berlin?

    I will need to give this some serious thought. The hypothesis that East Germany was unable to stop defections from other routes, and that the Communist Party found itself powerless in the face of popular resistance, is an intriguing idea. But I’m not so sure it has more explanatory power than a guy who disseminated nonsense religious books about the End Times and a peculiarly American cult-like belief about Jesus. That’s assuming he actually did smuggle the books and isn’t making this part up, having instead relied on the awesome long-distance vibes of Jesusness which still would have worked just as well but did not before 1989 for imminently explicable reasons.

  • kraut

    “But I’m not so sure it has more explanatory power than a guy who disseminated nonsense religious books about the End Times and a peculiarly American cult-like belief about Jesus.”

    On second thought – I might have to agree with you. There is simply a more convincing argument to be made that books proclaiming the all encompassing healing power of some 2000 year old dead Rabbi have more influence than the mere pissed off subjects of a suppressive regime.

    After all – who has ever heard of changes done to governance by mere citizens without the guidance by some supernatural entity – just think french revolution – clearly an example of a god driven regime change, and the guillotine clearly was inspired by the holy spirit.

    The same goes for the american revolution against british oppression. The teabaggers clearly carry the legacy of that event in their name, and their adherence to scipture bears witness to the simply fact that the hand of god guided even those evil semi secular devils like Jefferson et. al.

    No, humans are simply incapable to change governance of any kind without the hand of god – the result is clearly seen in the russian revolution when godless jews and other misguided persons went against the god supported czar, not waiting till he (god, not the czar) gave the signal to throw off the yoke of hundreds of years of brutal feudalism.

    The result: it took seventy years till the church of russia again was the moral centre of dear old russia, defending its position ferociously against pussy rioters and supporting a in return supporting president, a circular relationship some might call unjustly incestuous.

  • anubisprime

    kraut @ 6

    I just hope that becomes a meme (chsristian = lying), saves us a lot of hassle in identifying whom to trust.

    I think we were at that point about 2000 years ago give or take a decade or two!

  • Jacques Ouihausse

    He’s hallucinating and doesn’t know, what he is talking about. First and foremost, the remaining life expectancy of anyone not wearing a uniform and walking along the East German side of the Berlin Wall while it was still guarded was expressed in seconds. Second, there were a lot of people trying to sing, talk, write or dance the Berlin Wall down, but even most of the crazier fraction in general chose the safer approach from the Western side. It’s safe to assume the majority of both fractions were not pastors.

    While it’s true, that parts of the East German churches had a substantial role in the resistance against the SED regime they didn’t limit their contribution to simply praying the Wall away. Saying otherwise is utterly disrespectful. They would have prayed for comfort and strength, but not asked god to do what has to be done by men. East Germany is the heartland of Prussia and protestant theology therefore heavily influenced by Enlightenment. The sane majority of European christians wouldn’t touch fundagelical books and philosophy with a ten foot pole while in reverse to Fundagelicals even consrvative German protestants would appear as socialist godless liberals.

  • Oh yeah? Well, I collapsed Rome! And the USSR! Nyaa nyaa nyaa!

  • PS – and I won Hastings in 1066. Can you tell how I’m doing this, yet?