Trump’s Wall is Immoral: What Bible are you Reading Pastor Jeffress?

Trump’s Wall is Immoral: What Bible are you Reading Pastor Jeffress? February 11, 2019

I have to wonder what Bible President Trump’s close evangelical advisors are reading. Pastor Jeffress of First Baptist Church of Dallas Texas in a recent NPR interview justified Trump’s build-a-wall solution to immigration by cherry-picking certain biblical texts and misconstruing them. As a seminary professor once told me, a text without a context is a pretext.

President Trump and Pastor JeffressReligious supporters of compassionate immigration laws often cite the hundreds of verses of Christian and Jewish scripture that command us to welcome the alien and stranger in the land. In a vain attempt to sidestep these verses, Jeffress claimed that the Israelites were welcomed only because Jacob came at the invitation of Pharaoh, not illegally. According to Jeffress, God “said to Israel because you were once aliens and foreigners in Egypt. And that’s the key…. Israel came to Egypt as welcomed guests, not as illegal immigrants.”

This is a profound misunderstanding of foundational texts. Pharaoh did not have a guest worker program. This was before the modern nation state with its passports, immigration laws and border bureaucracy. There would have been no backlogged immigration systems, no laws and procedures. Just nomads wandering and hoping to find a place to settle down. Jeffress’ assertion is anachronistic.

More importantly, Jeffress overlooks the part about slavery, a predictable shortcoming of white Evangelicalism. These verses — and there are many  — tell the Israelites to remember they were once not welcome. Not welcomed one bit. Jacob’s people migrated and flourished, but his descendents were enslaved, brutalized and murdered.Rev. Jennifer Butler at the border

Moses barely escaped genocide thanks to brave women who rebelled against the laws of the land and floated Moses across a river on a makeshift raft. Had there been a wall I’m sure they would have scaled it to save their baby boy.

Moses grew up and led a rebellion against Pharoah’s oppression. In public rallies with his miracle-working staff he warned Pharaoh that his lack of compassion would doom his nation. Pharaoh remained stiff-necked and arrogant, even after God sent plagues to make him stop the brutality. That did not end well.

There are around hundred “remembrance” verses throughout the the Bible that tell the Israelites to remember their suffering at the hands of a tyrant. All of them have to do with remembering they were once aliens, foreigners and, yes, slaves. Verses like this one: “You shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the soul of the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Ex.23:9). The experience of oppression, of being unwelcome, demands that God’s people build a government with laws based in empathy for those suffering in the same way.

Jeffress concludes that God created government to maintain order and protect its people. Who are its people? The law of Moses and the prophets make it clear: the oppressed, those who come from outside. Let’s read scripture more carefully. More importantly, let’s live it.

If your faith is important to you and you want to join a movement for immigration justice, please join the organization I lead, Faith in Public Life, as we strive to hold government accountable to protect the oppressed.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Scott

    I’m confused by your title statement that Trumps wall is immoral. Why now is the wall immoral and wasn’t under the previous administration? I’m not sure I see it as immoral but I do have an issue with the concept. Makes me think of Berlin a bit. I’m more interested in the selective moral outrage that the press and progressives seem to be involved in. It’s like the use of tear gas to disperse crowds at the border. Obama administration uses the tactic 56 times in a 2 year span and not a peep.

  • Alpha 1

    Agreed, Trump’s worst crimes are bipartisan. Whether it’s a militarized border or the war in Yemen, both parties support a world order based on imperial domination in order to ensure the American ruling class can continue to exploit the lower classes of the world and accumulate as much wealth as possible. A radical shift away from the bipartisan consensus is needed in order to create a better world.

    Luckily Trump’s ability to turn subtext into text has caused the mask to slip and the human cost of American policy to become impossible to ignore. When Trump talks about how he supports the blood-soaked regime of Saudi Arabia because they buy American weapons, it becomes increasingly clear what’s really going on. It’s taking time but America’s rank-and-file liberals are starting to move away from the rotten consensus of the democratic party on everything from war overseas to the violence of borders at home. It’s better to applaud their shift instead of wagging your finger at them for not getting there sooner. You can’t change the world without normal people, and if your first response to them recognizing a problem is to ask why they didn’t see it before you’re never going to get anywhere beyond posting.

  • Scott

    Well, I’m not sure we want to move toward the radical AOC positions but I certainly agree some change is needed.

  • Alpha 1

    Right now the planet is lurching towards environmental catastrophe, Jeff Bezos has a higher GDP than some countries, and America is helping the Saudis blow up school buses full of children in Yemen. Is what AOC wants really radical compared to the status quo?

  • blogcom

    Welcome the stranger and alien in the land, sure but notice the emphasis on the singular it has literally nothing to do with mass migration let alone the illegal variety
    Check your contextual understanding at the door.

  • God told the Israelis through Samuel how the state would abuse them if they chose a king, but they refused to listen. God’s original government for Israel had no human king, legislature or standing army. There was no one to enforce the border. As God warned Israel, everything the kings would do would be immoral. Most of what the federal government does is immoral and illegal under the Constitution. So why do “progressives” fixate on the border wall? As long as “progressives” demand a larger, more intrusive state, that state will continue to commit even more immoral acts like the border wall. BTRW, Jeffres is wrong. God created government, not the state. And the only government God ever created had no human executive or legislature, but had just 613 laws and courts to enforce them. Most of those were religious ceremonial laws. The courts did not enforce the religious, moral or poor laws, but left those to God to enforce. Courts only adjudicated the civil laws protecting the life, liberty and property of Israeli citizens.

  • Yeah we’re suffering something more like an invasion.

  • John

    How did we get to the point of imposing religious texts on a secular state? Is this a theocracy?

  • Scott

    This isn’t a binary choice. i don’t care how much Bezos or anybody makes. We shouldn’t be involved with the Saudis in general and AOC is off her rocker.

  • Alpha 1

    Do you really want one person to have as much power as Jeff Bezos’ wealth gives him, with no democratic accountability? Can you really end America’s alliance with the Saudis or solve the climate crisis without ending the world’s reliance on oil? Tinkering around the edges of a radical status quo is still an extreme position. If anything AOC is the moderate here.

  • Scott

    Don’t really care about the Bezos thing, or anyone else for that matter. The whole income inequality thing is scam by the left. In 2016 the top 10 entertainers and athletes made more than the top 10 CEO’s. Never once have I heard anyone on the left bitch about Oprah and her money. As for AOC, she wants to mandate being off of fossil fuels in 10 years. When someone can tell me how we get an Airbus 380 for JFK to LHR, then I’ll listen.

  • Alpha 1

    Entertainers make money by directly providing a service. CEOs like Bezos make money by leaching off the labour of their workers, which is why he’s worth 100 billion dollars while Amazon warehouse workers are peeing in bottles to maximize efficiency. They then use that money to increase their wealth at the expense of others, which is why Amazon is extracting billions of dollars in concessions from New York.That’s why CEOs and businesses are the focus of the left’s ire instead of entertainers. Pretending they’re equivalent is to believe we live in a world without structures of power, or any sort of context at all.

    I will say that Liberal leadership is far to friendly with the billionaire class. I’ll never forget Hillary Clinton saying Donald Trump gives good billionaires a bad name, even though when you get down to it every billionaire is like Trump in one way or another. It’s like I said, the democrats believe in a friendlier, technocratic version of the same imperialist oligarchy republicans believe in.

  • Scott

    Pointless conversation. The left has turned the term CEO into a pejorative. Class envy is what they promote. They spread division. That’s how they maintain their power. If you have an issue with billionaires, do you have an issue with millionaires?

  • Alpha 1

    Eh, I think wealth should cap off around 10 million dollars or so. At that point you can do whatever you want with the money, increased wealth is as valuable as a score in a video game, making more than that probably involves massively exploiting the labour of others, and allowing it to go higher risks concentrating power in a class of people without democratic accountability.

    And why do you accuse the left of spreading division, instead of describing divisions that already exist? Billionaires are a class of people who control more wealth than some nations, make their money by leeching off the labour of others, and actively pressure governments to do what they want in order to increase their wealth. Do you think their existence wouldn’t be divisive if we just didn’t talk about them? That’s like saying the it’s divisive when you criticize the aristocracy in a monarchy, but having nobility isn’t divisive! The divisions are there, whether you acknowledge them or not, and the question is what should be done about them. If you like the current distribution of power and resources and want it to continue, just say so.

  • Denise Nilsson

    If Theocracy Pence has his way—yep.

  • Silverwolf13

    We can fuel jets with biodiesel. But what we need is a cheap electrosis process for extracting hydrogen from water.

    We are just now beginning to think about thinking about doing what it was obvious that we needed to do decades ago.

    We complain that the costs will be high. But imagine how low the costs would have been if we had started converting to renewables in earnest in 1989, when PBS ran a series on the subject, or when President Carter started installing solar panels in response to that era’s energy crisis. We’ve been getting warnings about this since 1873! But imagine how high the costs will be if we wait any longer.

  • Silverwolf13

    I think it was Warren Buffet who noted that there is class warfare in this country and that his side is winning.

  • Wesley

    Jacob taking his family, seventy people, down to Egypt at that time would be the equivalent of mass migration. when Abraham went to Canaan his party was even larger number several hundred people not including all the animals that went with them. let’s not forget the largest even mass migration took place during Exodus and does not conclude for another forty years when the caravan lead by Moses finally crossed the Jordon to conquer Canaan for their many sins.

  • Wesley

    there was always an outcry against such walls, but most administration backed down after the outcry while Trump has doubled down playing his base to help him. Trump was the first to even shutdown the government to get it.

  • Wesley

    they seem to be reading study notes that already support their positions more than the actually text itself. i would be rich if i had a dollar for each time i heard some media minister or Christian talk show host quoted from the study notes of CI Scoffeld, Charles Ryrie, or John MacArthur. all these Bible scholars have one thing in common they are big into Darby’s eschatology. the most ironic fact is that Scoffeld seemed to have written more study notes after his death than when he was alive should be sending them big RED FLAGS, but it does not.

  • kcwookie

    “i don’t care how much Bezos or anybody makes. ”
    So you don’t care how little the poor make and the problems that creates?

  • kcwookie

    “Don’t really care about the Bezos thing, or anyone else for that matter.”

    Perfect, thanks for the insight into your soul.

  • kcwookie

    And you have no issues with the poor.

  • kcwookie

    Leave Scott alone, he’s a good Christian.

  • Scott

    That’s an asinine assumption. We live within a dynamic economy, not static. There is no pie to divvy up. Just because someone makes more doesn’t mean someone else makes less.

  • Charlie Sutton

    Ms Butler is guilty of the same thing of which she accuses Jeffress; she misconstrues what is there in Scripture. She never cites any passages to back up her statements, which she ought to do. But she can’t, as the pertinent passages do not support her claim.
    Consider, for instance, the settling of Jacob/Israel and his family in Egypt as sojourners. Genesis 45:16-20 say, “16 When the report was heard in Pharaoh’s house, “Joseph’s brothers have come,” it pleased Pharaoh and his servants. 17 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Say to your brothers, ‘Do this: load your beasts and go back to the land of Canaan, 18 and take your father and your households, and come to me, and I will give you the best of the land of Egypt, and you shall eat the fat of the land.’ 19 And you, Joseph, are commanded to say, ‘Do this: take wagons from the land of Egypt for your little ones and for your wives, and bring your father, and come. 20 Have no concern for[a] your goods, for the best of all the land of Egypt is yours.’”” Pharaoh may not have had a guest worker program, but he specifically invited Jacob and his sons, their wives, and their families to come and settle in Egypt, giving them the area known as Goshen (in the Nile Delta, a highly desirable region as it was well-watered).
    The Ancient Near East may not have had the border stations, passports, etc, that we do, but that does not mean that they let all and sundry wander where they might wish.
    Furthermore, we learn that the Hebrews were enslaved after “there arose in Egypt a new king, WHO DID NOT KNOW JOSEPH.” (Exodus 1:8). This new king may well have been Ahmosis I, the first king of the 18th dynasty, which expelled the former ruling dynasty of the Hyksos around 1550 BC. He had little or no idea of why the Hebrews had been invited to settle in Egypt, and if he did, he did not care. He simply saw a threat and a potential labor pool. He overturned the agreement between the former rulers and the Hebrews and made slaves of them.
    In other words, the Hebrews came by express invitation, lived as sojourners (recognized foreigners living in a nation with permission of the rulers and recognizing the laws of the nation where they reside), but were later enslaved by a new and unjust king.

    The New Bible Dictionary (Eerdmans, 1962) speaks of sojourners in a discussion of the more general term “stranger” on page 1219. Under the broad term “stranger” there are three sub-types of non-citizens who may come to a nation. The first of these is “stranger” used to translate the Hebrew “zar.” A “zar” is an outsider; in context, the word is often used to describe someone whose intent may well be hostile and needs to be investigated.
    Then there is the Hebrew “nokri,” usually translated as “foreigner.” It too tends to a negative connotation; Solomon was condemned because he had married many “foreign” women, building for them temples for their idols, and so perverting the covenant Israel had with the Lord. The Hebrews were forbidden from marrying the foreigners near or among them for that very reason – the peril of accepting idolatry themselves, and creating a syncretistic religion worshiping the Lord, Baal, Moloch, Asherah, etc. The northern kingdom was wiped off the map as a result of such syncretism, and the southern kingdom was exiled to Babylon.
    Then there is the “ger,” or sojourner. These were people who dwelt in a land not their own. The “zar” or “nokri” might simply be passing through a nation for reasonable reasons, such as trade caravans. The “ger” lived in the nation. The Gibeonites (a Canaanite tribe) entered into an agreement with the Hebrews in Joshua 9 and were allowed to stay, even though the agreement was reached by deception. Other groups and individuals entered into agreements that gave them the status of sojourner.
    The sojourner had many privileges; he was not to be oppressed; he might glean from the fields at harvest if he had need; he could flee to the cities of refuge if accused of murder. He was considered someone who was vulnerable, such as widow or orphan, and so was under God’s protection and anyone who abused his vulnerability would be answerable to God. BUT – the sojourner also had responsibilities; he was to observe the Sabbath (which he would find to be a blessing) and at Passover he was to rid his household of leaven. He was to observe the laws concerning the eating or drinking of blood, or concerning sexual immorality, idolatry, and blasphemy. So the sojourner had both the protection of Law and responsibilities under the Law. To use modern terms, the sojourner had a “green card.”

    I write all this to challenge the article, which is an example of not only no context, but no text. All that being said, I don’t agree with Trump about a border wall. We do need to control our borders, but there are other and better ways than to seek to build an impenetrable barrier at enormous cost that, I am sure, will not be as successful as was intended.

  • Scott

    My, you are rather presumptuous.

  • Scott

    Warren, progressives favorite billionaire. I like how he plays progressives. Complain about billionaires, use a fictitious stat that his secretary pays a higher rate than he does, and then progressives and the press give him a pass. They even quote the guy. It’s rather ingenious when you think about it.

  • kcwookie

    Boy, are you out of it. There is only so much to go around. The GDP of this country is only so much and when we make the wealthy comfortable at the expense of the poor we are morally bankrupt.

    The more we claim to love Jesus the more bankrupt we become because we claim to love the name and not walk the walk.

  • kcwookie

    Really. I’m not defending wealthy people who made their money on the backs of others.

  • Scott

    You obviously have no clue about economics. GDP is indicative of the economic growth of a country. It changes every year. In static/planned economies is where there is only so much to go around.

  • doctorchrysallis

    blogcom — You’re actually the one who needs to check your contextual understanding at the door — you’ve dragged post-Enlightenment thinking into scripture. When we use a phrase such as “the White House” or “the poor person” or “the stranger,” we’re referring to a collective entity, not a singular individual. Your emphasis on the singular wasn’t known in biblical times; ontological individualism is a product of the Enlightenment. Where did you earn your Master of Divinity, and acquire the mistaken habit of interpreting scripture through an individualist lens (a modern heresy!). The distorted lens of individualism doesn’t have to do with being progressive, or liberal, or conservative. Even scholarly evangelicals know that individualism is problematic.

  • Scott

    I didn’t defend anyone. I wrote that I didn’t care what other people make. Progressives are far more concerned about those who make more than they do instead of those who make less than they do.

  • doctorchrysallis

    Said like an iconic, loyal white evangelical Trump supporter.

  • doctorchrysallis

    “Just because someone makes more doesn’t mean someone else makes less.” Oh yes it does! In our country, CEO’s are paid an average of 350 times more than their average wage-earning employees, whereas in certain other countries, the CEO’s would actually be morally embarrassed by such a disparity. In a moral economy, the CEO would assume responsibility for closing the gap, and would take steps to redistribute the excessive salary among the employees.

  • Scott

    In 2016 the top 10 entertainers and athletes made more than the top 10 CEO’s. How do you propose redistributing that?

  • Everett Kier Jr

    I didn’t know progressives read the Bible, at least not with the idea it is from God and comes with authority a commitment Mr. Jeffress has even if one wants to disagree with his position. More to the point is that the entire appeal to scripture seems specious since the problem addressed is not one of allowing people in the country–the US does have an immigration policy. What is being challenged is the necessity of an orderly and legal immigration and a desire to protect citizens, an idea that seems ignored in the opinion piece.

  • Scott

    First of all you are incorrect. Because someone makes more does not mean someone makes less. But let’s use your idea. The CEO of GE, Lawrence Culp, makes $6.25M a year. If her were to take a salary of $1 and divvy up the rest to his employees, they would benefit by $19.97/yr. If Wal-Mart CEO, Doug McMillon did the same thing, each employee would end up with an additional $7.

  • Rush to bear false witness much? I’m not a Trump supporter and I’m a member of the Choctaw tribe. I’m not evangelical. I’m Baptist.

  • Alpha 1

    All the actual labour that makes Amazon money is done its workers. But because Jeff Bezos owns the company, he gets first dibs on the money they make, and the workers get whatever’s left after he siphons it off. The pie is Amazon’s revenues, and Jeff Bezos’ profits come at the expense of Amazon’s workers. There’s only so much money that’s made, and it’s a zero-sum game as to how it’s distributed.

  • Scott

    Yep. And the reason the workers have a job is because of Jeff Bezos. Amazon has 541,000 employees. Bezos compensation in 2017 was $1.6M. If he took no salary and distributed it to all of his employees they would receive an additional $3 a year.

  • Alpha 1

    You’re thinking too small. Bezos’ net worth is over 100 billion dollars, largely due to Amazon stock. What if he and other Amazon shareholders turned the stock over to the workers so they could have a say in the way their workplace is run and control the profits from their labour?

    The ultimate problem with modern business structures are that they function as dictatorships, rather than democracies. Conservatives love to complain about big government and its power, but your boss controls whether you can go to the bathroom.

  • Scott

    How much? Who gets to make the call on how much someone is allowed to have? Plus now the goal posts have been moved.

  • Alpha 1

    I’m in awe at the power of his Radical Centrism: The status quo is acceptable as long as the president has good tweets. Both Sides are equally bad at all times. Thus all efforts must be focused on scoring gotchas on liberals and scolding them for not being nice enough to conservatives.

    It’s one of the most extreme, surreal political views I’ve ever seen. Howard Schultz has nothing on centrism this enlightened.

  • Alpha 1

    The goal posts have only been moved in that we’re talking about the total value that workers’ labour has produced, instead of yearly value. But if you’re talking about how much stock should be given to workers: All of it, distributed evenly to each worker. Going by Amazon’s current market cap of $805 billion it would give each Amazon worker about $1.4 million in stock, which seems like appropriate compensation for making one of the world’s most powerful businesses possible. After all, if Jeff Bezos disappeared tomorrow, Amazon would hire a new CEO and go on just fine. But if all its workers disappeared and only Jeff Bezos was left, the whole company would collapse.

    Even distribution of stock would also give workers control over the business they work in, and even distribution ensures a democratic system where everyone has the same vote.

  • Scott

    Oh my God.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    That just goes to show how ignorant you are. Yes! Progressives and Liberals read the Scriptures … many of us from our youth up … and we pray too … on a daily basis … and we believe with our whole hearts in Salvation, by Grace, through Faith, by and through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now to refute the flagrant and blatant lies of your immigration opinions … not a single one which can be supported by the Gospel of Christ, nor anywhere else in the Bible.

    “What is being challenged” … by TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast, is the entering into the United States of any Brown people at all. And as evidence of that, may I ask why then, there isn’t a brouhaha from TЯ卐m₽ about the 3,000 mile long Northern Border?

    Silly me, the vast majority of immigrants, legal or illegal, which cross over the Northern Border are White people … so there’s that.
    Meanwhile, the vast majority of immigrants, legal or illegal, which cross over the Southern Border are Brown and Red skinned people.

    And before you go twisting, spinning and projecting your own racism (and TЯ卐m₽’s too) onto me, remember, it is your own Orange-Idol and his
    “Harlot of Babylon “spiritual leaders” (ie: false prophets, wolves in sheep’s clothing) who have authorized their own ICE-Gestapo thugs to cage children … withhold food, water, medical care, and then force them to die in detention … without their parents.

    If you condone, defend or support anything that TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast says or does, then you already have the Mark of the Beast in your forehead … and you put it there yourself!

  • Tina Maria Meconi Araquistain

    Obama used tear gas 56 times at the border to disperse crowds? I guess I can check that one myself, but, I have a feeling there is a piece missing.

  • Tina Maria Meconi Araquistain

    Protect citizens from whom? Poor immigrant families? There never has been a question about the need for orderly and legal immigration. There are more family units seeking asylum, this is true. But the notion of this big problem of violent immigrants slipping in through the cracks of the border in record numbers is a manufactured lie. Trump has used this lie to justify his “WALL” when, even IF he were NOT lying, a wall would not address the problem. REMEMBER, Trump has won the election at the expense of poor (brown) immigrants. Hate. Fear. We are NOT being invaded. We are the United States!

  • Scott

    Unfortunately not. It was over a 2 year period though. Better than using real bullets I guess. CBP regularly has to use tear gas to disperse crowds.

  • Alpha 1

    Defending the dictatorial power of the world’s richest man to own the libs

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Imposing on the state is not what this article is about, it’s imposing Spiritual Laws of Love into the hearts of those who claim to be genuine Christians, or if they are in reality the “Harlot of Babylon” fake christians which Our Savior warned us so emphatically about. – Matthew 7:15

    As Our Heavenly Father enlightens the Scriptures in our hearts, we should test the spirits of those so-called “spiritual leaders” to see if what they say coincides with the Laws of Love and Forgiveness, which our Lord Jesus Christ commands of genuine Christians.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    What?!? In case you haven’t noticed, or are deliberately being deceptive:

    It’s not Progressives who are “fixated on the border wall”
    it’s that treasonous, dictator-wannabe, TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast!

    Why do “Harlot of Babylon” fake christians always project their own sins onto others?
    Just like their Orange-Idol does!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Then you, of all people, should not be pretending that it’s Progressives who are “fixated on the border wall” …
    but that IS what you did say in your comment, several posts above this one.

    As a Native American, you should have empathy with those who are seeking asylum. Just like the Cherokee Nation was forced to seek asylum when then president, Andrew Jackson (TЯ卐m₽’s declared favorite president) forced them off their ancestral, tribal, homeland, onto the Trail of Tears.

    Even today, many Native Americans are harassed, arrested, even attacked by followers of TЯ卐m₽.
    Yet they’re here legally. Could it possibly be the color of their complexion … and not their legal status?

    If you don’t see the correlation, then it’s hard to believe you’re really a Native American …
    … or that you’re not really a TЯ卐m₽-TOAD.

  • Scott

    Be honest. You’re a Marxist.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    From the lack of understanding and compassion in your comments, looks like you don’t care that the United States is helping the Saudis blow up school buses full of children in Yemen either.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Maybe if you put less emphasis on economics and more on compassion, you’d be a genuine human being instead of a vile
    TЯ卐m₽-TOAD.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Ya’ know what’s pointless TOAD? Worshiping that orange-goon, TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Warren Buffet, George Soros, Bill and Melinda Gates are “lefty” billionaires.
    ALL of those “lefty” billionaires are altruistic philanthropists and extremely generous with their wealth.

    Compare that to the billionaires on the right: starting with TЯ卐m₽, then the Koch Bros, Sheldon Adelson, the Mercer Family, etc.
    All greedy, hoarders, bent on keeping the poor, poor and giving the top 1% BILLIONS from the United States Treasury!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Anyone who defends, condones or supports TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast, and his vindictive policies, is a “Harlot of Babylon” fake christian!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Anything you claim has the inherent taint of dishonesty and the visceral stench of TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast.
    Be gone, vile TOAD!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    The only issues Sanctimonious-Scott has with the poor is that they breathe.

  • blogcom

    In other words you change the singular to the plural just because……… sorry I don’t get your reasoning. How did your arrive at the understanding the singular wasn’t known in biblical times- What???? I don’t know so much about the Master of Divinity but it sounds like the Master of something else. Not that I put much store in any theological degree anyway.
    You must remember mass immigration was never encouraged by Israel- it would have destroyed its character as well as being contrary to the wishes of God-so when they were conquered by other nations it was due to divine judgement.
    They did get travelers passing through on their way to other destinations so that verse about the alien and stranger can be viewed in such a context..
    Therefore to use that verse to prop up your political leanings is a misnomer.
    You can only compare apples to apples, not oranges to apples and historical context is paramount. .

  • blogcom

    Yes, just apply your own understanding of what constitutes mass migration, just to make it easier on yourself. .

  • blogcom

    Like its hard to believe someone like you desires a drastic change to your country’s demographics and character- indeed you might say destruction thereof – for political gain.
    What’s the word I’m looking for …….oh yes traitor. .
    Quit lecturing other people, you’re on shaky ground.
    .

  • blogcom

    A liberal Christian is an oxymoron…… sorry it is what it is.
    Your destruction awaits.

  • blogcom

    Projection is an old, tired tactic of the left- try again.

  • blogcom

    The beast most likely rises in Europe- wrong again.

  • blogcom

    Re-learn and expand your worldview- time is short.

  • blogcom

    Way to conflate different issues with nothing in common.

  • blogcom

    No -some just use it to suit their political purposes.

    Just look at how many who call themselves liberal Christians do it all the time.

  • blogcom

    Spiritual Laws of Love- sounds like New Age Twaddle.

  • Scott

    You know you could reduce carbon emissions if you stopped breathing.

  • I didn’t say you are fixated on the Wall. I said that as long as you demand an all powerful state it will abused people. You think you can control it but you are wrong.

    BTW the Harlot of Babylon was the Jewish leaders, not. Christians.

  • Alpha 1

    Democratic socialist. I’ve never even read Marx. I’d like to see a democratized workplace where workers control how the workplace is run and, most importantly, what’s done with the profits from their labour. I’ve said it before but bosses have more power over people’s day to day lives than governments do, up to controlling when people go to the bathroom! You can vote out a bad politician, so why not make a world where you can vote out a bad boss? There’s no reason to accept democracy in government and dictatorship in the workplace.

    What about you? Do you have any politics beyond defending the status quo and scolding liberals?

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Change – Demographics – Character – Mass-Migration? What the hell does that mean?

    Silly me, what you’re saying is that everyone in the US should be just thrilled that reich-wing-fringe-Whitey-Supremacists like you, don’t want to change MY country’s demographics and character.

    Furthermore, this country is originally the Red Man’s terrain, so get your vile, neo-nazi αss back to Europe or wherever the
    ‘f-ing’ else your ancestors migrated from!

    And you shouldn’t be throwing around the word “traitor” so freely, as you’re the one who worships that
    fat-fascist-slob, treasonous-criminal-thug, detestable-dictator-wannabe, TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast!

    If anyone is a “traitor” to their country, to all humanity … and to God Himself, it’s you and your Orange-Idol!

    If you defend, condone or support any policies or lies of TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast, then you have put the
    Mark of the Beast in your own forehead!

    We are all brothers and sisters under the skin. When you get to the point where you can receive that bit of hard-news, then you might start down the road to becoming a genuine human being.

    Meanwhile … ain’t no “mass-migration” … only in the depraved minds of TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽ and his deluded TOADS … you!

  • Everett Kier Jr

    I have a friend who is in the border patrol in Texas and while you might chose to deny it the reality is an open border is not safe. To deduce I, or others, hate “poor (brown) immigrants” is a false deduction and one that rejects the call in I Corinthian 13 to give the benefit of the doubt.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    I tend to agree with blogcom. It is simply a reality that there are those who assume scripture is a product of man’s quest to know the deity and your rant seems to give evidence of that assumption at work. Sorry. I will choose to ignore the foolish attacks and the ignorant statement regarding the mark of the beast assuming you had a bad day.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Silly you or ignorant I don’t know BUT if you are not aware the border situation to the North is a totally different situation than the border to the South and the problem is not skin color. Seriously!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Different how? In that the Northern Border is 3,000 miles across instead of only 1,500 miles?
    And that mostly White immigrants flow over the Northern Border?

    You claim it’s not about skin color but God and every decent person knows full well that it is. Your Orange Idol has made that perfectly clear, not just with Asylum Seekers at the Southern Border, but with the shameful way he treated the Puerto Rican people after they were hit with a massive hurricane.

    You dare sanctimoniously reference I Corinthians 13, the chapter which defines true Christian love?
    Yet you choose to embrace the Beast and believe his lies instead of following what our Lord Jesus’ commands:

    • Matthew 22:36 and Mark 12:31

    “Love thy neighbor as thyself.”

    • Matthew 7:12 & Luke 6:31

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

    • Matthew 25:35

    “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,”

    • Micah 6:8

    “He hath shown thee oh man what is good, and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God.”

    • Jeremiah 22:3

    “Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.”

    • Zechariah 7:9-10

    “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”

    • Psalm 146:9

    The Lord watches over the foreigner and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked.

    • Deuteronomy 10:18

    He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.

    • Leviticus 19:34

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

    • Deuteronomy 27:19

    “Cursed be anyone who perverts the justice due to the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.”

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    No surprise that: TOADS of a ‘feather’ croak together.

    Start by reading Revelation 13:1 – the Beast is described in detail, and it’s a perfect portrait of TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽.

    But you already know that; and since you already proudly wear the Mark of the Beast, you’re now attempting to drag as many with you and your Orange Idol into the Lake of Fire.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    “Harlot of Babylon” describes the End Days Church and that’s what the Christian Church in the United States has become.

  • Scott

    That’s a good question. My politics are all over the map. I don’t buy into one political ideology, so basically I’m a pariah to the left and right. I self identify as a conservative communitarian, something I made up to try and label my beliefs. I’m for a plethora of progressive positions such as universal health care, criminal justice reform, anti-death penalty, strict gun regulation along with other things popular with the left. I’m rather conservative when it comes to tax policy, meritocracy, individual liberty etc. I’m not an extreme redistributionist and I really don’t care if the guy down the street from me makes more money than I do. I believe people have the ability to be the best they can be and most people’s problems aren’t because the system is rigged. I’m a living, breathing example of what a person who comes from nothing can accomplish.
    Most people in the country work for a small business. The disparity between what that CEO/owner makes and his lowest paid employee is minimal. But the left loves to point out the exceptions all the time. Bezos is the new boogey man. This will pass in a bit and then the left will find another one. That’s what they do.

  • Scott

    No we can’t. Someone would have done it already if it were possible. Airbus certainly would be producing biodiesel jets if it were a reality.

  • Scott

    So you have no idea of who I am or my background, yet you write that I hold “one of the most extreme, surreal political views” you’ve ever seen. That says a lot about you. Couple that with the ad hominem attack insinuating I’m a Trumper…well, as Socrates stated “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” I have been adamant that I think Trump is the ant-christ. And what is most telling is that Trump never even came up in the conversation. You just felt the need to throw that out there. It’s all about ideology. Certitude is what divides us. The certainty that you are right and everyone else us wrong. It’s common place for the left and right.

  • Alpha 1

    How can you have universal health care without breaking the power the the for-profit healthcare industry? How can you have a meritocracy in world where Donald Trump’s inherited wealth allows him to grift his way to billions of dollars and then become president? What individual liberty does a worker have when they’re working multiple jobs to make ends meet, and their boss can fire them whenever they want? Their life is controlled by their employers, who could destroy them whenever they want by firing them.

    You can’t get the things you want without changing the current structures of power, which are defined by control of wealth. If you want a freer world, you need to ensure freedom from want. Labour provides the resources to ensure everyone can have a dignified existence, but because those resources are controlled by a small group of oligarchs millions of people have to scrape by paycheck to paycheck. That’s a rigged system, and if you don’t change it then inherited wealth means it you’ll be ruled by people like Donald Trump and his children forever.

  • Alpha 1

    My implication with the “good tweets” part was that your problem with Trump is that his tweets are bad. Other than tweets there’s not much difference between him and John McCain. Combined with the fact that the radical capitalism you defend is what created Trump, and whenever his policies come up your response is to try and score gotchas on liberals instead of opposing the policies, it’s hard to see your horror as anything but aesthetic.

    And yes, letting individuals control more wealth than entire countries by leeching off the labour of others in an extreme ideology. It’s a radical form of capitalism that creates a tiny oligarchy. Believing that oligarchy should exist is as deeply ideological as believing we should bring back feudalism. This is what I mean by radical centrism: It’s a fanatical adherence to the ideology that produced a nightmarish status quo, all while declaring yourself the only one who’s free from the constraints of ideology.

  • Scott

    I disagree. I don’t see this as a binary choice. I’m moving to Costa Rica in a few months. They operate a two model solution. Everyone contributes to the universal health care system and everyone can use it. If you want the private for profit option that is your choice but you have to pay for it and you have to contribute still to the goverment system. The UK is looking to this type of system because theirs is so flawed. When it comes to labor you are just flat out wrong. Each person had the ability to control their own destiny. Some certainly start out with an advantage where others do not.
    There is absolutely nothing special about me. I was born in the mid 60’s and grew up poor. Dinner at times was bread and gravy. We hunted small game to supplement groceries. My parents couldn’t afford college so I saved to go to a tech school. I got a job as a welder at 20 and married at 21. I worked 3:30 in the afternoon until 2:00AM and then enrolled at the university. School all day and work all night Four years later, two degrees. At 34 I left my sales job and started my own company. I had three kids, lived in a cheap duplex, and worked my ass off. Fast forward today and I sold my two companies to a competitor. Their is nothing special about me. I don’t blame my lot in life on others, certainly not some fictitious oligarchs. Your ideology limits you.

  • Alpha 1

    In 1940, the median home value in the U.S. was $2,938. By 2000, it had risen to $119,600 and today it’s just over $200,000. Even adjusted for inflation, the median home price in 1940 would only have been $30,600 in 2000 dollars.

    Home prices aren’t the only skyrocketing expense for today’s young people. Education costs have risen at an alarming rate as well. College Board’s “Trends in College Pricing 2017” report examines changes in tuition rates over time, showing how much more the class of 2018 is expected to pay than their parents did.

    It’s a lot.

    Students at public four-year institutions paid an average of $3,190 in tuition for the 1987-1988 school year, with prices adjusted to reflect 2017 dollars. Thirty years later, that average has risen to $9,970 for the 2017-2018 school year. That’s a 213 percent increase.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

    Are you sure it’s ideology that’s limiting people today?

  • Scott

    Yep

  • Alpha 1

    So the cost of homes and education don’t do anything to limit people’s ability to get an education or own a home?

  • Scott

    The barriers I faced were certainly no less than the ones some people face today. You seem determined to find reason for failure.

  • Alpha 1

    The barrier to education is literally 213% higher now than it was for you.

  • Scott

    What political ideology controls the education system?

  • Alpha 1

    Big-L Liberal capitalism, same as every other system in America.

  • Scott

    I’m wondering what your response is to my point on health care.

  • Alpha 1

    A public, universal healthcare system with private options as supplements is quite different from a trillion-dollar, for-profit healthcare and pharmaceutical sector. In that system private insurance is to public healthcare what private home security is to the military and police. Putting everyone on a good public plan would destroy the healthcare sector’s profits, and they’ll fight that system like the existential threat it is.

    And I’m still wondering how you think education and home ownership costing more now than they were for you isn’t a bigger barrier. You’re not an Ayn Rand hero. People today work just as hard as you did, but the things that let you succeed are literally harder to get than they used to be so fewer people can get them.

  • Scott

    The percentage of high school grads that went to college in 1980 was 49.3%. Its currently in the high 60’s now. Your argument doesn’t hold water.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    A Night at the Garden:

    https://anightatthegarden.com/

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    • You chose allegiance to the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to believe the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to follow the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to obey the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to worship the Beast instead of Christ!
    • You chose to accept the Beast’s LIE instead of Christ’s Truth!

    You bear ALL responsible for putting the Mark of the Beast in your own hand and forehead.

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

    9) “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,

    10) and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    11) For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    12) and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

    You are responsible for your own DAMNATION.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    • You chose allegiance to the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to believe the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to follow the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to obey the Beast instead of Christ.
    • You chose to worship the Beast instead of Christ!
    • You chose to accept the Beast’s LIE instead of Christ’s Truth!

    You bear ALL responsible for putting the Mark of the Beast in your own hand and forehead.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    The 3 R’s:

    It may already be too late for those who have aligned themselves with TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast.

    But Our Heavenly Father, in his infinite mercy, may give you one more chance to redeem yourself from committing
    Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit … the Unforgivable Sin!

    Renounce the Beast!
    Repent!
    Return to Christ!

    Otherwise, you’ll be cementing the Mark of the Beast in your own forehead for all Eternity.

    Choose either the Light and Life or the Dark and Death. Your choice, choose wisely.

  • Alpha 1

    Yes but they have to put themselves in crippling debt to do it. A college degree doesn’t get you as far as it used as well, and if you can’t get one of the dwindling number of well-paying jobs with your degree you’re out of luck. Your entire ideology is based on reducing everyone’s outcomes in life to hard work, as if the poor don’t work hard already. You’re pretending the world has no context or structures that limit people’s lives.

    It’s one of the purest examples of boomer mindset I’ve ever seen. Have you ever considered considered that the prosperity of post-war America that allowed you to become a small business owner and retire to Costa Rica isn’t there anymore?

  • Scott

    You continue to move goal posts and make excuses for not succeeding. Your ideology is based on blaming others. You limit yourself. I’m not retiring in costa rica. Taking a sabbatical to go do some volunteer work. I eventually have to come back and reenter the work force.

  • Dennis

    Well if you study your Bible instead of listening to everyone else you would find a complete civil code there. You would also find Nehemiah rebuilding the wall pursuant to God’s direction. You will also find God telling the People to accept and allow strangers to enter if they accept the Hebrew”s ways and laws. If not they were to move along.

    Strangers would bring strange gods and pervert the system God ordained, which was a civil code in addition to the religious one. Solomon is a prime example, there are others. Israel’s down fall was always rejecting wisdom and following the cultures around them.

  • blogcom

    Not a good idea to use Christ’s name in vain.

  • blogcom

    You’ll be behind the lawless one as he’s your leader.

  • blogcom

    Just one question, do you really think the U.S. is invincible, look at the empires that have come and gone before, all because of the hubris and crass stupidity of leaders and populations alike.
    America is not immune to the same fate.

  • blogcom

    Yes all those verses support mass immigration.
    No they don’t, I’m just being sarcastic like your interpretation through your narrow political lens.

  • blogcom

    I’m not from the U.S. I can’t imagine having to put up with treacherous compatriots like yourself.
    Traditional American liberals and libertarians have my sympathy.

  • John

    So, is your point that America should follow the civil code for Israel in the Old Testament? Is that your hermeneutic for interpreting the OT, that nation states are to follow codes given to ancient Israel? I think you misapply what was meant for Israel under the old covenant with how we are to live today. The New Testament places no such code on nation states, so bringing up the old ways is a apples to oranges comparison.

  • No, that’s poor hermeneutics and just reading into the passage what you want to believe

  • Church For Black Men

    Greetings.

    I just read your article about Pastor Robert Jeffres calling “Never Trump Evangelicals Spineless Morons.”. I am a pastor and writer that has chosen to respond to Robert Jeffress.

    I’ve written a blog titled,
    25 QUESTIONS FOR PASTOR ROBERT JEFFRESS OF FIRST BAPTIST DALLAS TO ANSWER PUBLICLY OR RESIGN

    ARTICLE LINK
    https://www.blackmen.church/single-post/2019/02/14/95-THESES-REMIXED—25-QUESTIONS-FOR-PASTOR-ROBERT-JEFFRESS-OF-FIRST-BAPTIST-DALLAS-TO-ANSWER-PUBLICLY-OR-RESIGN

  • Wesley

    i would have to agree with Ocelot that most of the fuss over the Mexican border is because of race. two other factors over the Mexican border are language, which is fairly easy to resolve with convenient times for English as a Second Language classes to help accommodate work schedules, and the mere fact that Latin America is strongly Catholic with our nation still has some strong anti-catholic bias example being the Blaine Amendments in many states. i have heard a pastor declare his biggest reason against hispanic immigration solely based on his anti-Catholic bias. early in our nation’s history it was better to be a black slave than an Irish slave for the black slave was treated more humanly than the Irish was, but that changed around 1830 as our nation started expanding toward the Southwestern part the USA. why is it that we think that only hispanics need to be fluent in English instead of being simply conversational proficient in English? Boston has many borrows and in each a different language is spoken. other cities have different neighborhoods where a language not English is dominant.

  • Wesley

    the nations of our world were all created by mass migration. the turks migrated clear to modern-day Turkey all the way from near Korea. one of the tribe that help form England migrated from Saxony in Germany hence the term Anglo-Saxon. the original Romans were originally from Greece. the ancient Hebrews were from migrants for southeastern Iraq for Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldeas. the Ishaelites were originally from Egypt for Hagar was Egyptian while Abraham was Chaldean. most of Europe especially western Europe was formed from mass migration. we saw massive mass migration when Pakistan and India first became independent nations with non-Muslims that in the territory of Pakistan moving into India while the Muslims moving into Pakistan form around India.. second half of the 16th century saw massive migration solely religious reasons.

  • disqus_goKBqSzJhb

    Build a a wall and they’ll go to the door. It’s immoral to use a door now?

  • DebbyJane65

    We could do better by building shelters at the border until processing can be complete. Welcoming those having to flee from unbelievable circumstances is our mission of mercy. Why build a wall to curb drug trafficking when agents caught El Chapo in a tunnel? Those fleeing to cross the border are looking for a red cross; not a closed door and no compassion. Let us help them make their America dream come true.

  • John Gills

    As a senior citizen white guy, methinks I detect aging, out of touch, white guy desperation in Pastor Jeffress.

  • John Gills

    Unless you’re wrong.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    When you hear TЯ卐m₽ threaten, insult, and bully others … does that sound like the voice of the Good Shepherd? (John 10:27-30)
    Are you willing to gamble your own soul to align yourself with and worship the false Orange Idol?

  • John Gills

    A pox on the orange idol!

  • Since you’re berating another person’s (skewed) view on the wall, what do YOU (Reverend Jen) do with the simple FACT that Solomon built a massive wall around Jerusalem? And what of the FACT that one of the very first things the Israelites did, upon returning from captivity, was to repair/rebuild the wall around Jerusalem? Its importance is worthy enough that it’s the focus of both Ezra & Nehemiah.

    What do you do with Scriptural facts like these? Do you just ignore them? Blow them off because they don’t fit your narrative?

    To be clear, I’m not a Trump voter nor a fan of the wall, but the snotty tone of this article is silly and shallow. It simply ignore an enormous amount of Scriptural truth.

  • Triggerman1976

    You can only welcome someone if you know that they are there and they have agreed to abide by your laws. You need to read your Bible more closely before you accuse someone of doing the very thing that you’re doing.

  • Adam “Giauz” Birkholtz

    There is a pie to divvy up. Currently, we store vast sums of money only with a few individuals rather than spending a not so great portion on food, healthcare, housing, public transportation, education, job training, etc. All those virtual “I owe you” points we call money just sits in limbo doing no good for so many people in bad situations they cannot escape without responsible debt redistribution.

  • Robert Conner

    LOL at the very question. Jeffress is going where evangelicals since Billy Graham have gone: lower. And then lower still.

    http://new.exchristian.net/2019/01/the-second-cyrus-and-his-court-eunuchs.html

    Why wouldn’t evangelicals love Trump? I mean, besides the shady finances, the dodgy friends, the rank hypocrisy, the congenital lying, the disregard for verifiable facts, the leering misogyny, the cult of personality, and, of course, the homophobia.

  • Robert Conner

    Theocracy? Yes, absolutely. Why otherwise would evangelicals fight tooth and nail for decades to get the Ten Commandments on walls and prayer in schools, creation “science” on the curricula, and control over school textbooks?

  • Robert Conner
  • Robert Conner

    Throughout the Reagan years the US military supported reactionary, murderous regimes in Central America, the source of most of current immigrants seeking asylum. Since we’re on the subject of Christianity, good Christian Ronnie Raygun and his good Christian friends ran guns to the Contras and propped up leaders who “governed” by death squad. The US is now reaping the social whirlwind sown in villages across the region. Naturally Americans, with the cumulative memory of a toddler, leave out this part when whinging about “invasions” of the southern border. The countries originally invaded were Central American countries and the invaders were US military advisors.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/28/opinion/school-of-the-dictators.html

  • Everett Kier Jr

    right….but since I have no memory why are you wasting your breath? I don’t find that era as black and white as you remember it but then again….

  • Robert Conner

    Yeah, I guess we’re different, you and I. I took a degree in Spanish and Latin American Studies back in 1991 and you’re historically illiterate. So yeah, there’s that…among other things.

  • Silverwolf13

    United Airlines announced plans to use biofuel for all flights out of LAX 2 years ago, and several airlines are following suit.

  • Scott

    It’s 30% bio and 70% jet fuel

  • Elzbieta Kraszewski

    “Pharaoh remained stiff-necked and arrogant, even after God sent plagues to make him stop the brutality”?
    Evidently, someone fought the part where God hardens the Pharaoh’s heart so he doesn’t release the Hebrews as he (Pharaoh) wants to. All so God can show off his amazing sea parting skills. So much for free will and robots, huh?

    And let’s not forget that, according to the Israeli archaeological society, there is no evidence for wide-scale Jewish slavery or wandering for 40 yrs in the desert. None. I know “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,” but one would think that an entire civilization in transit would have left behind something.

  • Elzbieta Kraszewski

    I have to agree with you a bit on this issue, Dennis, which demonstrates why, in a 21st century pluralistic country, using Bronze Age texts as the basis for law might not be the best idea. Yes, the Bible very much does state that the Hebrews should be kind and welcoming to the foreigners and refugees since they were once refugees. It also has God commanding them to slaughter every living creature in various civilizations because the people were pagans, and it warns many times about marrying foreign (pagan) women since they tend to lead their husbands into idolatry.

    The Bible has to be read in context to have any idea what its words mean, which is why both sides often take it out of context to suit their purposes.

  • Dennis

    Matthew 5:17-20 sir. This was Jesus words. not a apostle or another man’s doctrine. If you divide the Commandments you have that deal with god and those that deal with your neighbor, thus the saying about loving God and loving your neighbor to be the whole of the law. the Law further broke down the civil remedies for the trespass we do against our neighbor and those we do against God.

    Everyone thinks the Law is just religious doctrine, not so. It was a complete civil code regarding interaction with our fellows. In observing the religious and civil portion of the laws we observe the law. If you live it instead of picking it apart with a cold heart and a pernicious mind you do not keep the law. there is no love in your heart, you are just going through the motions. Here we find the meaning of the Law. You gain no benefit when you perform the law for your own, you have not love and your performance of the Law is entirely to shield yourself from breaking it and not accepting it as direction on how you are to view your position in God’s kingdom… in short you are trying to sneak in the back door.

    Jesus told us that the Law would continue until the heaven and earth pass away… it ain’t happened yet. you are listening to the traditions of men, like he told us not to. i’ll listen to Jesus, you can have the rest.

  • John

    Your examples do make the point, and I agree that deep down many evangelicals would enact a theocratic system if they could. I cannot interpret scripture in a way that would justify that as what God wants from his people who live in a pluralistic society. It is a terrible hermeneutic that arrives at that conclusion.

  • John

    Matthew 5:17-20 was addressed to God’s people, those who believe and follow him. It was not meant to be imposed on the wider society as a set of external rules or codes of conduct to enforce as the law of the land. Your points seem address the human heart and it affections for and adherence to God’s ways. All fine and good, to be sure. But you can’t make the sermon on the mount into law.

  • Dennis

    I look to principle that is timeless. tyranny is timeless, it doesn’t matter what part of earths history you pick from the basis, it is all the same. Ecclesiastes 9:1 “…there is nothing new under the sun”.

    “History will show that mankind is more disposed to suffer the evils while the evils are sufferable”… Declaration of Independence. They did not see that they had to relearn the lesson. It was a historical observation that repeated. Murder is still murder and so on.

    All this garbage about times changing does not address the propensity of man to commit the same offenses that others before him did. Those that come to the country to be allowed to enter are stating that they will be good citizens and obey the laws of the land to gain entrance. They are coming here to live in a better place, not to change into the thing they run from. Even the Framers spoke of this. This notion is a timeless principle, time, and recorded history, tell us so.

    All the emotional appeals and other logical fallacies cannot bend the truth. The “times have changed” retort ignores the fallacy of trusting those who seek power, regardless of their stated motives..

    Illegals in sanctuary jurisdictions are used to seat more politicians in the house of representatives by the power brokers in those jurisdictions and thus more votes for those who demand that we break the law for the poor refugees when it is their own power they add to. The working people pay the social security mediciad and medicare, there is no such tax on the returns for investment. So they are buying their clout on our tax dimes and perverting the political system in the process, all upon the backs of the common men and women.

    Nope, nothing to see here…

    My pessimistic self is fertilized by the failings of a people to rely on themselves and God and not chase the aspiration of men or women seeking power. Jefferson was quite clear on the “ambitions of men”. I’ve seen nothing to change my assessment.

    God Bless

  • Dennis

    You already did it, the Beast is merely a “kingdom” or in our age a government… You got a Social Security number? There is your mark. Did you go to them and say i am not yours… I did! Did you call them out on it I did. Did you get a letter of acknowledgement that it is a voluntary system, not mandatory, I did, with their letterhead and my name on it. Grievous Yokes are simply more taxes, 666 the amount of tribute Solomon collected every year. When his son declared that he would oppress the people even more, they stoned the tax collector to death and chased the king into a walled city for refuge… he was to be next. I Kings Chapters 10-12.

    Be careful to whom you point your finger.

  • Dennis

    Nope He is not a prophet or a minister he is the President. Its his job to stand for right and if it takes threatening people with action then so be it. Shepard ain’t warriors either but I bet you depend on them for your safety, do you call the police or defend your own home as the good man of the house is supposed to. You have been following the doctrine of men son. Best read your bible and learn the original meanings and not those of men who never knew Jesus.

  • Dennis

    Got that wrong, those things were there from the beginning. It was the liberals that forced us to take them out. You have no idea of your history.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Not so. The Beast is described in Revelation 13:1 and it’s a perfect portrait of TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽.

    The Harlot of Babylon churches have been lying to us for decades … some said it was bank accounts, credit cards, Social Security, welfare, Food Stamps, some obscure computer in Europe, a chip implanted in our brains, etc. etc. … all conjecture, all LIES.

    The Beast (TЯ☭itor-TЯ卐m₽) is here and now. If you support, defend, condone and worship that lawless, hideous monster, then you have already put the Mark of the Beast in your own forehead! There are none so blind that refuse to see!

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

    9) “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,

    10) and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    11) For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    12) and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

    You are responsible for your own DAMNATION.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast and First Harlot, Jezebel:

    https://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/19/02/image00-6-700×470.jpg

    • Image from : DonkeyHotey •

  • Robert Conner

    There from the beginning, huh? So was slavery. And putting children to work. Liberals gave you public education, and democratic elections, and eight-hour work days, and constitutions instead to the “divine right of kings,” for starters. Want to believe in Bronze Age folklore? Have at it. Just do it on your own time and your own dime.

  • Robert Conner

    I’ve noticed that “interpretation of scripture” tends to get the interpreters whatever results they want pretty much every time.

  • John

    Yep, that’s often true. But it is possible to read and correctly understand historical literature. When you look more closely at someone’s method of interpretation, you’ll often find it very rudimentary, inconsistent and naïve. “Interpretation” often gets a bad wrap, but usually from those who don’t understand or respect the process.

  • Robert Conner

    Speaking as a guy who’s read his fair share of interpretation, I’d say there are about a half dozen life-of-Jesus events that are historically plausible–peasant from Galilee, apocalyptic prophet, baptized by John, crucified for stirring up unrest, etc–and the remainder is folklore that’s been accreted post mortem, ex eventu “prophecy,” and the like. In short, believers have been making up theology to fit their needs since Day One, and that’s basically “the process.”

  • Everett Kier Jr

    Wow, what a literate and enlightened reply, a personal attack on someone you don’t know. Good job.

  • Robert Conner

    Awww…poor buttercup. Thoughts and prayers!

  • Everett Kier Jr

    you make me laugh…..no wonder you “took” your degree…obviously couldn’t earn it
    Just for the record…to whom/what would you pray?

  • Silverwolf13

    True, but it is a start. The Danish Air Force has flown planes using all biofuel. What we really need is to use hydrogen as a fuel.

  • Dennis

    Daniel 7, God does not mix his messages up like the Adversary. The Angel told Daniel the beasts were kingdoms and the vision was later carried forth when Daniel described “latter days”. That brings us to Johns revelation. The goat was the rise of the Greek state under Alexander. The four were Alexander’s generals that broke up the empire into four parts and Rome was the notable horn that Rosebabove the others. History even bears this out.

    John takes over from there. The reference to beast does not change, however, we have to begin with John with the foundation we have from Daniel. It not only follows scripturally, it also follows logically. I learned a long time ago that spiritual truth is when the intellect and intuition agree, God is at the root of it. The intuition is then our spiritual self trying to manifest through all things worldly, thought patterns, perceptions, values… everything. When we are truly born again we have shed all the garbage we have collected in the world and see the reality with spiritual eyes.
    “We are in the world not of the world”.

    Besides, I did not say that the manifestations were the Beast, I said that they were outward manifestations of the Beast. These things are adversarial, the inhibit and restrain us. Everything that is conjured up to use as control are manifest by the Beast. When you become dependent upon the Beast, you can not pursue you path.

    Besides, I have it on good authority that this is correct.

  • Dennis

    So he told his deciles to take from their purse ot if they had not sell their cloak and buy a sword. He told the young man to let the dead bury their dead, then again he condenmed the Pharisees… you take a lot out of context.

    Your doctrine is faulty, not of God.

  • It may be faulty because it came from one of the 200 Christian sects that Osteenize it to make it more palatable to marginal soldiers.

  • That was the real reason for the first clause in the First Amendment.
    The Constitution Party is actually the Theocratic Party.

  • Did the wall around Jerusalem have watchtowers with archers to shoot down those trying to get out of the city?
    Once Trump’s wall is complete, the watchtowers will be installed by DHS in the name of anti-terrorism, just as they were in East Berlin.

  • And the doors will eventually only work inbound.

  • It worked so well for Nick Begich.

  • DuckyShades

    Theocracy it is — only the author is the only one not privy to her own call for it.

  • DuckyShades

    Something tells me this article would not have been written had Obama pushed for a wall. Just a hunch. Gonna go now.

  • What in the world are you talking about? And is there marijuana involved?

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    “Good Authority” whoo-zat? TЯ卐m₽? or one of his ‘spiritual advisors’ … aka: false prophets, wolves in sheep’s clothing?

    Daniel 7 talks about “beasts” as kingdoms … of which there were many throughout history (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Caligula, King Herod, Attila the Hun, Henry the VIII, Constantine, Vlad the Impaler, Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad etc.).

    However, Revelation 13:1 describes the Beast. … note: singular … as the one who will be the Lawless One
    (2 Thessalonians 2:9). The others were ‘a beast … TЯ卐m₽ is the Beast.

    See the difference? Or are you so deluded as to still support, defend, condone and worship the hideous, orange, monstrous, IDOL who weaseled his fat-αss into the ‘Offal’ Office via TREASON?

    Make up your mind TOAD … time is short, if it’s not already too late for you. – 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    A genuine Christian, like President Obama, doesn’t “push for a wall”.

  • Dennis

    Slavery was practiced by every one especially the African nations… hell they still do there.

    Putting children to work… every farmer today does that, ranchers… you know the people that feed you?. Children begin learning their father’s trades still.
    Andrew Jackson was responsible for moving elections from real property owners to all citizens… you know the slave owner that finally got us out of debt. He started the Democrat Party and man do I find that hilarious.
    Public education, well probably a good idea until FDR put a Communist into the educational system during his tenure. Now its been hijacked.
    Constitution, yes they were liberal, Classical Liberals not the wolf in sheep’s clothing Marxists that have infiltrated that category..

    But to the point of my comment, the Ten Commandments were always there, its on the Supreme Court building.

    Regarding your rant, because it was nothing more having to resorted to a Red Herring to set the board for your expression of dissatisfaction.

    But where did you get the Bronze Age Folklore? Is it because I see value in principles that are timeless? The Code of Hammurabi is still useful in this day and age. As the Framers said, History will show that mankind is more disposed to suffer the evils”… they did not throw out the council of ages because the principle was realized a millennia ago. They observed the value of the principle as it moved through successive evolutions of mankind.

    You were too busy soothing your ego to really see what I said, and that is the intemperate condition of the pseudo liberals today.

    They just can’t handle the truth!

  • DuckyShades

    No, it’s not about that at all. It’s a polemic against Trump, and it’s ill motivated. If it’s about imposing love — then “love your neighbor as yourself” should be the crux. This is a political hit piece dressed up in Torah text.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Ask yourself, when you hear TЯ卐m₽ insult, bully, mock, incite violence, brag, deceive and threaten others, is that the voice of the Good Shepherd? Does your Orange Idol, whom you’re defending, speak with the voice of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

    Consider these words of Christ::

    “But the things which come out of a person’s mouth are from the heart, and these defile him.” – Matthew 15:18

    “A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. – Luke 6:45

    “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.” – Matthew 7:15-20

    Again, ask yourself, do TЯ卐m₽’s words and actions reflect “love your neighbor as yourself”? Or are they the words and actions of the Beast?

    “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies … ” – Revelation 13:5

    Are you willing to gamble your soul for the ‘privilege’ of supporting someone as wicked, amoral and unrepentant as TЯ卐m₽?
    If you are, then you already have the Mark of the Beast in your forehead, and you put it there yourself!

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    Then get your snout OUT of our affairs!