9 Ways Atheists Get More Joy Out Of Life

9 Ways Atheists Get More Joy Out Of Life June 4, 2018

The other day, I noticed this tweet:

Aside from the fact that Mary seems to have missed the point of the poem, Mary has offered up the same sentiment I hear from so many theists: atheists are joyless.

This is something I’ve heard more than once, and I’ve never quite understood it. As someone who has had a life filled with joy but who has lacked religious belief since day one, it’s completely absurd to me. I think that for some religious people who say this, this is an attempt to make us feel small; that they don’t really believe that we can’t feel joy. For others, however, I get the sense that they truly believe we live without any joy at all.

Either way, many religious people I’ve had the opportunity to get to know, are miserable. Now, I realize that the small group of religious people I’ve gotten to know is hardly representative of an entire demographic… I get this. Of course, not all of them are miserable. I’ve met some truly happy people who profess a belief in god. However, there are some things we don’t need stats to know when it comes to how atheists experience joy. We know that religion comes with dogma. We know that religion is prescriptive and requires certain behaviours. We know that those behaviours are promoted with the use of threats, guilt and shame.

We also know that atheists are free from all of that. We don’t do dogma, we don’t take kindly to threats from the magical zombie in the sky. We don’t believe in eternal punishment or infinite reward. We are free to explore what it means to be us without the pressure to fall in line.

Here are nine ways atheists are free to feel joy, without the burden of dogmatic shame or guilt:

Girls just want to have fun. Image: Creative Commons/Pixabay

1. Sex! We are not afraid of going heels-to-Jesus! We celebrate the four-legged foxtrot like it’s an Olympic event. If an atheist feels shame for hiding the bishop, it’s only because he has residual BS carried over from when he was religious. It’s okay for women to ride the bologna pony as much as they like and it’s perfectly okay for men to nail men and women to bang women. So, you’re a back door bandit? That’s fine. More than one partner? It’s cool, as long as all your partners are. Whips and chains your thing? Have at it! Role-playing, toys, or just the good old missionary position with the love of your life? It’s all good! It’s good for the heart, it’s good for the mind and it even burns calories! As my motto goes, a little less time at the gym, a little more time riding him. There is absolute joy in mutual pleasure if you can strip away the shame, the guilt and the idea that you’re a dirty little sinner bound for hell.

2. Celebrating the joy of others! Instead of disowning people because they have fallen in love with someone of the same sex, we love them just the same. Even more, we are happy for them! We celebrate their milestones with them, and we dance with them at their weddings. We happily consume their wedding cakes baked by people who are not bigots and we joyfully march down to the county clerk’s office and look down on people like Kim Davis with the full knowledge that we are, in fact, better than them. We find profound amounts of joy knowing we are on the right side of history, and even more joy can be derived from being able to separate ourselves from those who would judge another based solely on who they have fallen in love with. You see, trying to actively prevent certain people from loving certain people, is an act against love and against joy. It defies the very idea of joyful living.

3. Discovery! Nothing is quite as exhilarating as reading a headline that a global ocean was discovered on one of Saturn’s moons or hearing that a new robotic prosthetic will give amputees all sort of new abilities and movement. I imagine one day we will find signs of life out there in that deep abyss… my heart literally flutters at the thought. We’ll discover cures for the ailments that most trouble us now, and we’ll discover new tech that makes life easier, of a higher quality and more enjoyable. The absolute and utter joy in new discoveries is indescribable. An atheist would never dismiss these discoveries if they conflicted with previous explanations for our existence. We embrace them and allow them to lead us to new and exciting places. We will all die knowing more about our world and our existence than we do now.

4. Saying “I Don’t Know”! I know what you’re thinking… how can saying I don’t know be joyful? It’s very simple. Saying I don’t know means you have more to learn. Learning is fun. Learning expands our ability to be able to function in this world, treat others with respect and potentially one day live in peace. Those who insist they are certain of something, are closed to the joy of learning. Saying, “I know for certain that God created us” gives you no need to further investigate our origins and eliminates the possibility of you learning something new about it. Saying we don’t know, leaves us open to discovering something new about our existence… and that would be a discovery that would bring a great amount of joy to those who were open to learning about it.

5. Sunday mornings! In the fall, watching your football team win with your little boy by your side… or hiking along a creek as dried up leaves crunch beneath your feet. In the summer, swimming with your kids out to the platform in the middle of the lake and diving off. Sleeping in and rising to your husband making you Nutella crepes or jumping all morning with your son on the trampoline. These are just a few of the things that bring more joy than a sore-bum from being stuck in a cold, hard pew, surrounded by corpses on crosses, listening to a man warn you of the eternal fires of hell.

6. The joy in knowing this life is all we have. Understanding that there are no second chances and that once we’re gone, we’re never coming back makes a person really want to live life to its fullest. We really live because we know life is fleeting. We cherish this life whereas many religious individuals appear to be living for the next life.

Image: Creative Commons/Pixabay

7. Masturbation! Yes, self-pleasure brings a great deal of joy to someone who understands that there is nothing wrong with it and that it is absolutely normal. We all know that even the most devout monks slap their happy sack from time to time but the difference between myself and a monk is that I am not ashamed of it. I am a sexual creature with a libido and the sheer joy that comes from celebrating that over being ashamed of it is inexplicable.

8. No Hell to fear! An atheist is free to live their lives without the fear of hell. When we do good things, it’s because we want to do good things, and never because we are afraid of eternal torture. There are no firey images of the devil floating around in our minds, no act that we feel deserves suffering for eternity. We believe in compassion and empathy and love, not torture. It’s not so hard to believe that choosing compassion over eternal torture is a far more joyful way to live, is it?

9. We are not being watched! Well, some of us may have stalkers but as far as being watched by a celestial Dad-dude in the sky who judges our tiniest actions goes… well, we live happily and joyfully without that. We know that consequences for our actions are detectable and real-world and we adjust our behaviour based on that rather than a space-stalker.

Today’s most populous religions come with deep shame. They make people feel guilty for who they are, and how their bodies function. Fear is driven into the devout and obedience is cultivated via threats of damnation. These things are directly incompatible with joy.

Facing facts is not cold or hard or joyless. Facing facts gives us freedom. It gives us the freedom to live with far more joy than your book would have you experience. It gives us the freedom to live life in reality and celebrate our own humanness.

Are atheists more joyful than religious people? I doubt we can prove that… but to assert that we are joyless is completely unfounded. We live with a great deal of joy… joy that many of you will never know.

What do you think? Do atheists feel joy? Let me know in the comments!

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  • Fred Tully

    There are people who can suck the joy out of life. It is not there fault, they were just born that way. Or so I recall…

    “So negative they could kill a battery from across the room”, but I did not see any correlation with religion… but then I never hang around them long enough to find out anything about them. I just do not need those negatives in my life, and leave them as soon as possible.

    And one more. Take up philosophy, and develop a philosophy of life, and you will never hear those negative people again.

  • I don’t understand how not believing in a scary deity makes my life less joyful. Since I cast off belief in religion, I feel more peace, I am no longer afraid of an afterlife, and I am more likely to seize opportunities to try new things because I believe this life is my only chance. Being able to say “we don’t know yet bit we continue to explore” is more freeing than saying “god did it but I don’t know how and it doesn’t make sense”. You hit the nail on the head with your examples.

  • NotAgain U bucking fastards

    I find it funny that the person responded to a funny poem, two things that give many people joy, to claim we have no joy. The poem itself gave me joy. It’s like walking up to me while I am laughing and hugging my children and telling me that I can’t love because I’m a brunette.

    I definitely relate to each of your points, Courtney.

  • Cozmo the Magician

    Yeah, #1 is my #1 reason (: Glad I never had religion to spoil that. But there are some other things I have been able to enjoy throughout life that I would not have if my mom had been one of these fundie type. A) Sci-Fi books (or just about any book not all jesus) B) Rock & Roll (unless it was all jesus) C) D&D D) Comics (keep your Chick tracts) E) Movies F) Just about any hair/clothing style I have ever worn (no matter what it is, some bible humper will hate it) G) Many different foods.

    I could spend a joyful afternoon just adding to this list (; But I’m going to go have a cig, and then join a friend in some Word of Warcraft.

  • Otto

    I can certainly attest as a person being raised Catholic that I am much happier living without thinking that there is an afterlife. I used to think that if there was even a minuscule chance of ending up in hell that it would be better to have not been born. Then add to it that there was so much doubt and internal conflict as to what the ‘right’ religious belief is, and the aggravation of listening to religious authorities claim to ‘know’ this or that about God. “I don’t know” was far more comforting than listening to these people talk out of their ass.

  • Michael Neville

    I never understood the “you’re joyless because you don’t believe in the imaginary sky pixie that I believe in” concept. I find joy in the same things Courtney does plus I find joy in sleeping in on Sunday morning, not giving money to professional god-botherers, and not being concerned that the god-botherers say that a white-bearded geezer is upset about what I do with my genitalia.

  • (((GC)))

    …join a friend in some Word of Warcraft.

    So spellcasting and magic are real! 🙂

    I remember some Bible thumpers vehemently objecting to the Harry Potter books and movies. Any supernatural stuff (that’s not all Jesus) is evil and sinful! No invisible powers (that aren’t all Jesus) allowed! (Guess they need to give up their cell phones and Wi-Fi….)

    Never mind that the magic in that world had nothing to do with religion, and that the stories celebrated morality and values that theists and nontheists both can embrace.

  • (((GC)))

    Someone has to quote the John Lennon song sooner or later: “Imagine there’s no heaven, it’s easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky…”

  • Priya Lynn

    I’m confident that whether or not someone feels joy has far more to do with other factors than whether or not one is religious. Maybe many very religious people would disagree with that but I have no doubt that the majority of people who consider themselves religious, or christians don’t spend a whole lot of time or effort in religious activities or thought. I have read that there is research that shows religious people report being happy but analysis of their statements shows they are not as happy as they claim. I think it is something they feel they need to assert (being happy) otherwise it denegrates their being religious.

  • Brian Curtis

    It’s not that they’re trying to convince anyone (except maybe themselves), it’s not that they can support this notion with evidence (they obviously can’t)… they’re just stating something that they NEED to believe. They NEED to believe that atheists are leading empty, miserable lives, because it helps reinforce their decision to remain faithful.

    Consider the alternative: what if people OUTSIDE the faith were leading happy, fulfilled, and meaningful lives? What would that mean for their religious identity, if it were only one option among many, and not obviously superior in every way? Clearly that can’t be allowed to happen.

  • Thank you and thanks for reading!

  • Great analogy. Thank you!

  • The list could go on forever.

  • It does seem more comforting than struggling with what god really wants.

  • Exactly. Thanks for reading!

  • God, that’s a great song, isn’t it?

  • That’s interesting. I’d love to read more about that.

  • Great point. They absolutely need to believe it.

  • Otto

    I struggled for a number of years trying to figure out which religious direction to go when the answer was:

    D) none of the above.

    It was a wonderful relief.

  • Bill Ameen

    Don’t forget, we save money by not tithing or otherwise wasting money on organized religions (however, I do donate to good causes like CFI, FFRF, AU, and AA!). Also, by not going to church I’m no longer subject to sing-shaming…I can’t sing (not even in the shower) and one of the earliest reasons I quit church when I was old enough to decide for myself is that I can’t sing, and every religion expects you to sing. That was even before I realized that belief in “god” was phony!

  • Yep, I save my donation bucks for Doctors Without Borders!

  • rationalobservations?

    The non-religious/godless Homan cohort are the third largest and fastest growing group of educated, peaceful and joyful members of our recently evolved species of ape.
    It’s odd that the religionists appear pleased to call themselves “god fearing” although the vile homicidal god of the old testament would be something to fear if it actually existed.
    Not only are atheists demonstrating we are better without any gods, we are also happily fearless of both life and death.

    Remember that the top ten most peaceful and happy nations today are also the ten least religious free, secular democracies in history.

    Rejoice that education and free, secular democracy has already proved to be the antidote to the poison of religion.

  • FreethinkingWorldGuy

    Good article!

    The enumerated list of “9 ways of joy” atheists DO experience, while not comprehensive or exhaustive, actually serves as a strong sales pitch for atheism, whether intended or not!

    A belief that “Atheists have no joy” is just one more unfounded belief theists can add to their list.

  • slripk

    The moment I realized I no longer believed in religious nonsense and I had no compulsion to try to believe it, I felt a huge weight lift. I still feel that joy of that moment when I think about it.

  • FreethinkingWorldGuy

    Good points!

    Consistent with your “sky pixie” remark and tying that in with “white-bearded geezer”, the “atheists have no joy” belief is just as silly as believing (or asserting) that Santa Claus disbelievers cannot find joy.

  • Otto

    It is kinda like once someone pointed out…ask a Christian what they really enjoy about the Christmas holiday and see how much their answer has to do with religion…not much.
    Ask a Christian what they really enjoy about life in general and I bet you get very non-religious answers.

  • It’s called jealousy.”How could YOU possibly be happy without a god to tell you that you are? Don’t you understand that you have to PRAY to god to find joy, and I feel so SORRY for you, you poor deluded heathen, you.”

    And I don’t care. Im happy (yeah happy) in my heathenistic ignorance.

  • It’s okay, It gives them unbridled pleasure to believe we are actually a miserable lot, and they probably get a great deal of satisfaction by praying for us, and about us, and consigning us to their hell.

  • Jim Jones

    One of my happiest days ever was getting the polio vaccine. It was a sunny day at high school. In a few days, I would be protected from a living death that was all too easily caught.

    It may be my last memory. To hell with the religious and the anti-vaxxers.

  • Jim Jones
  • prdorizs

    This article gives the light in which we can watch the truth. This is exceptionally pleasant one and gives indepth data. A debt of gratitude is in order for this decent article.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixq4p4Vpjss

  • Phil

    I felt joy once, then she dated some other guy.

  • Yep. Thanks for reading!

  • I was never a believer, so I didn’t get to experience that. Sounds awesome, though.

  • In fairness, you’re really only comparing atheists to *conservative* Christians. As a progressive Christian, I’m in nearly complete agreement with everything you’ve written here. I’d only clarify with #6 that while I do hope for the Resurrection, I still believe we’re to live this current life to the full. I actually believe that’s exactly what Jesus taught us to do.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    What ive seen of liberal christians is usually they dont condemn their fundy counterparts, but are quick to pounce on the whole im a christian spiel. No, either all christians get along with each other or begone.

  • Like how all atheists get along with each other?

  • Of course, Chuck! I’ve known plenty of Christians who get just as much joy out of life as I do 🙂

  • Ame

    A caricature of dysfunctional conservative Christians, that is. My grandparents are conservative, Catholics with a traditionalist bent, but even they make irreverent sex jokes, can talk to anybody without judgement, and laugh along with Kevin Smith’s Dogma movie.

  • Ame

    Yep, isn’t wonderful? And all the way to the point of using violence to expunge the opiate of the masses — oh wait

  • rationalobservations?

    Which modern, peaceful, educated, free, secular and predominantly non-religious democracy has offered violence of any kind to the remaining rapidly declining rump of religionists that are actually treated with sympathy and kindness as an eccentric throwback to a more superstitious, ignorant and less civilised age?

    I imagine that you are not referencing any of the peace loving, modern non-religious democratic states but those run under atheist communist or perhaps even christian fascism and mistake totalitarianism with atheism? The population of the top ten most peaceful and godless nations in history abhor all totalitarianism – religious and non religious.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iUIGzxa4EWQ/WdQVa-PhHxI/AAAAAAAABcQ/i3IUzFMnicMVWWz5nXU94tE6XIXFvshrQCJoC/w705-h960/at.jpg

  • rationalobservations?
  • rationalobservations?

    Please present the authentic and original, 1st century originated evidence that “Jesus” existed and that confirms any of the diverse and different, confused and contradictory legends within any of the human written “New Testament” bibles that have been fabricated since the 4th century.
    Once there is evidence established that a man named “Jesus” actually existed, we may discuss any evidence of what he said or did?

  • Ame

    You do realize that the whole world isn’t truly democratic, right. Large countries can’t survive on populist voting alone without some qualifier..democratic parliament, democratic socialism, democratic republic, etc. So your description of a free democratic secular society is very inaccurate. And such countries that you can list do have large curbs to religious freedom or even free speech, so I guess you have a definition of free with a very large qualifier attached. So as for modern and secular and certainly violent, you have China and North Korea, unless your subconscious imperialist racism thinks those two countries are too backward to be considered modern…

  • rationalobservations?

    Well done in demonstrating the simple minded talent of overstating the completely obvious.
    China and North Korea are NOT free, secular democracies and (Like the USA) do not rank high in the “Global Peace Index”.
    Of course the whole world isn’t democratic – many folk in many countries are dominated by religious and/or political totalitarianism. It is in stark contrast to that that the “Global Peace Index” highlights the top ten happy, well educated and peaceful – least religious secular and democratic nations.
    I do not describe or define free, democratic secular democratic society. I happen to live within one, but leave the annual Global Peace Index to list and define them.
    http://visionofhumanity.org/indexes/global-peace-index/

    I notice that you make no attempt to actually answer the question: “Which modern, peaceful, educated, free, secular and predominantly non-religious democracy has offered violence of any kind to the remaining rapidly declining rump of religionists that are actually treated with sympathy and kindness as an eccentric throwback to a more superstitious, ignorant and less civilised age?”

    Care to try again? take all the time you need…

  • Ame

    I am saying that your definition of free and democratic needs some clarification, otherwise your list is shorter than you think. It’s cute that you have someone elses list, but how can they gloss over restrictions over freedom of religion or freedom of speech and call that a free nation? I mean, even Japan has issues with free press restrictions and the law is biased against the young and disabled. You realize that the reason that they’re peaceful now is because of consequences for their participation in Axis powers in WWII, right? So that left me to listing for modern and secular.

  • rationalobservations?

    If you bothered to look at the Global Peace Index – you would not need to speculate regarding their ranking or the nature of the countries they list. Worth noting that while the USA languishes at 114 of the 163 nations listed, Canada is No.8 and Iceland is No.1. Are you arguing that these nations are not free, secular democracies and if so – why?

    As a comparison – totalitarian China is just below the USA at 116 of 163 nations and totalitarian North Korea is below them both at 150 of 163 nations.

    You appear to miss the main point that totalitarian states dominated by religion or political tyranny rank low for peace while educated secular nations head the list?

    This is not an absolute measure but an interesting one concerning the most powerful yet gun and god crazy nation that is the USA in particular?
    The least peaceful nations are religion dominated Arab and middle eastern or central African states in which democracy is outlawed and religious law prevails.

    I notice that you still make no attempt to actually answer the question: “Which modern, peaceful, educated, free, secular and predominantly non-religious democracy has offered violence of any kind to the remaining rapidly declining rump of religionists that are actually treated with sympathy and kindness as an eccentric throwback to a more superstitious, ignorant and less civilised age?”

    Care to try again? take all the time you need…

  • rationalobservations?

    Still no answer to my question!

  • Ame

    And I am still waiting for YOUR clarification. How can I answer your question without an establishment of definitions?

  • Ame

    What exactly makes a country a free country?

  • rationalobservations?

    I have already given you examples of nations within the top ten most peaceful free secular democracies according to the Global Peace Index.
    If you are an American citizen – Canada is just north of you and 106 places above the USA in the Global Peace Index.
    If you wish to continue to prevaricate or obfuscate – I WILL understand your reason for that…

  • rationalobservations?

    Freedom from persecution, equality of citizens and freedom of choice in an elected government elected by the individual citizens.
    Freedom from religious or political oppression.

    If you don’t recognise freedom, perhaps you can never be free.

    Now can you answer the question regarding which modern free secular democracy oppresses or persecutes it’s religionists?

  • Ame

    Examples are not definitions. Canada has major, major issues with free speech. Yes, Canadians gloat how much free stuff they get and many forms of license are enshrined into law, but that comes at the price of shutting down government criticism. Even the LGBTQ community there feels conflicted about trading in this major freedom for government recognized marriage.

  • Ame

    You say freedom from persecution and freedom from regions and political oppression when France uses the force of the state to strip away religious identity from the public sphere? It is very publicly boasted in France that religious identity must be subject to French identity, whatever that is. And they wonder full of surprise when Muslim migrants push back hard. And Germany, they have all but declared that children belong to the state, the state decides where to place every child for education, special needs or religious exemption be damned, and if you don’t comply, your children are taken from you.

    Yep. Freedom under a sword of the state. Can’t wait to have that!

  • Ame

    And, and don’t get me started on England! Perhaps there was a time they could boast of freedom (for native born Britons, anyway), but that has passed for a number of reasons, but the most choking reason of all was explained by Rowan Atkinson’s speech on the death of free speech.

  • rationalobservations?

    Meanwhile America languishes at the bottom section of the Global Peace Index and ranks at No.5 most ignorant nation in the world.
    Gun and god crazy USA is so far behind the more civilised nations that all you can do is recite and recycle nonsense propaganda your fake news system pumps into what passes for your mind.

    Take care that your neighbour doesn’t exercise his “rights” to own an assault rifle with which to slaughter your kids and the rest of your tribe.

    Look out for that totalitarian dictator with more powers than any king or emperor in the past few hundred years (you call a “President”) doesn’t continue to exercise his rights to oppress and suppress all freedoms in favour of the interests of his friend Vladimir and his only bosses at the NRA and the Fundagelicals.

    Meanwhile the rest of us look on in disgust and pity.

  • Ame

    You mean the U.S. of America. There is more than one American continent, so be specific. You use one index to define your estimation of the nation’s of the world. You seem rather obsessed with it. I think a more worldly person would know where to turn for more useful information about the status of each country. Such as traveling and observing such countries, talking with honest local people, not just the tourism professionals and government officials, what it’s like to live there and compare/contrast freedoms and rights. And analyze what their news organisations are allowed to report. Interesting that you have nothing to say about my comments for Canada, England, Germany, France, and Japan. So what makes them more free than the U.S.A. despite their respective restrictions to freedom of speech and freedom of religion?

    Interesting how you turned the topic towards gun rights and bad presidents and fundamentalists. Isn’t France currently struggling with all those things, too? They’re having BIG problems with illegal firearms despite supposed reasonable gun restrictions, plus problems with religious extremism….eek. Nice how pot calls kettle black. Oh yeah, they give a lot of free stuff so that makes them more sophisticated than the U.S.A., I suppose. Personally, I am glad that my special needs child isn’t subjected to France’s abysmal record in following its own special education laws.

  • rationalobservations?

    Oh the irony.
    Of course it’s the USA. You obviously don’t bother to read that which you fail to refute as I included a link to the Global Peace Index in an entry you merely ignored and answered with the usual unsupported denial.
    I have traveled around the world 9 times and lived and worked in many different countries including the USA. The irony of an American referencing being “worldly” is hilarious.

    As for crime rates USA Vs France?
    Intentional homicide rate USA 3 times more than France
    Murder rate USA 19 times more than France.
    Murders per million population France 10.54 USA 42.01 4 times more than France.
    Rapes France 10,104 USA 84,767 8 times more than France.

    Crime rates USA Vs UK?
    Intentional homicide rate USA 4 times more than UK
    Murder rate USA 18 times more than UK
    Murders UK 722 USA 12,996 18 times more than United Kingdom
    Murder rate per million UK 11.68 USA 42.01 4 times more than United Kingdom

    The number of mass shootings around the USA in 2018 continues to climb.

    According to data from the Gun Violence Archive, a total of 124 mass shooting incidents have occurred as of June 14.

    Four people were shot, including two children, at an office complex in Westminster, marking the 125th mass shooting so far this year..

    (In 2017, the U.S. saw a total of 346 mass shootings.)
    https://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass-shootings-in-the-us-when-where-they-have-occurred-in-2018
    http://www.shootingtracker.com/

    No mass shootings in the UK since 1996
    Here are some links again:
    http://visionofhumanity.org/indexes/global-peace-index/
    https://www.unilad.co.uk/politics/these-are-the-most-ignorant-countries-in-the-world/
    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

  • Ame

    You’re getting further and further away from your original claims of what constitutes a free country and my questions about how a country can be considered free when there are restrictions to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The U.S.A. has a problem with violence in its populace, but it’s not the fault of constitutional law, wheareas many of the countries in that index that are supposedly more free have freedoms restricted into their own constitutions. Their governments have greater power over their people. Sure, that’s nice and peaceful until the government decides it’s in the best interests of the nation to eliminate you as a problem

  • rationalobservations?

    What “claims”?
    Your denial appears based upon egotism and paranoia based mistrust of your fellow citizens and your government. Although mistrust of your fellow citizens and current presidential dictator appears well deserved…

  • Ame

    I know “America” is not great. Every country has pros and cons, every country has serious problems that keeps it from being a utopia. Germany may appear so much better with all the free stuff and equality, but as long as I keep my children safe and provide what I think is best for them to flourish, the government should have no claim over the them when there is a dispute on educational placement. France may appear so great but the freedom to express the more visible features of my religion is too important to me. Canada may appear so great, but I want to nonviolently, peacefully protest my president, within reasonable parameters of the law, without the government knocking on the door to cease and desist. My country isn’t great but these protections are not just laws constructed out of the benevolence of a government who can later decide that perhaps I could bear to have less freedom for the good of the state; my rights are constitutionally protected, and it’s the burden of the government to prove that it is complying with the constitution.

  • Ame

    And these countries may have something of checks and balances, but their executive branches are porous with the legislative branches. In France the president can and has done once in history undo the results of free election of representatives in legislation. That is a serious problem. The USA may have problems with deadlocks, it may give some power to the executive branch to allow executive orders in limited situations, but those orders can be overturned if not compliant with the constitution’s rigid system of checks and balances. Obama really screwed that up by deciding to give the presidency more power to legislate with his pen, setting up the precedent of liberal use of executive orders. Obama gave the next president a gift, and it’s no surprise that Trump is happy to make use of it. If Congress ever has guts to sue the president, then the Supreme Court could re-establish presidential checks.

  • BeaverTales

    I wasn’t against Religion until after I was told that my lack of belief in magic Sky Fairies made me a bad, bad person…Controlling what I believe seems important to the people who do believe in them. Since they can’t tell me how to think, they’ll happily tell me how to live. I otherwise don’t care what theists believe in their own heads. I can’t prove it or disprove it anyway..

    I am happier without the guilt, shame and fear I see in those who tremble before [fill in the blank]. I have a lot more to do in my life than worry about praying and begging magic fairies in the sky to solve all my problems in life that I should be solving myself.

  • Fraser Hutchinson

    ^^ This^^. In the same way the need to convince themselves that atheists cannot be moral, that atheists cannot have meaning in their lives, and so on and so on. Once they start passing judgement on me not based upon my actions but based up whether I believe in their particular mythology then the incur my resentment.

  • Robert Conner

    One thing most atheists very definitely are is informed about religion. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/95dd8d1127e8311d24e461da02b941d75e3d08c195d39d680678fc8016a546ad.jpg

  • Obscurely

    A hearty “AMEN!!” from this progressive pastor!!

  • Obscurely

    A lot of progressive Christians like me might not be willing to say this so boldly but — “We don’t care if we can prove whether Jesus was ‘real’ or not (bathwater) — what he taught us is more important than his literal existence (the baby:)”

  • rationalobservations?

    You merely overstate what is very obvious to many of us.
    I have paraphrased this common religionist assertion as: I believe only because I have been indoctrinated with faith and have faith merely because I have been brainwashed to believe”.

    If you are happy to unquestioningly believe in the confused and contradictory fables one of many similarly legendary “god-men” written centuries after the time in which they are merely set and to overlook the vile and exclusively self serving nature of religion in favour of delusion – that is your affliction.

    There is nothing that has been “taught” by “Jesus” as there is not one single historical trace of the existence of “Jesus”. There is not even a single credible version of christian bible among the many diverse and very different prototype bible versions (Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus – both late 4th century in origin and both very different from later versions and those we know today) that started to appear shortly after the 4th century Roman religion they called “christianity” was cobbled together.

    The lessons of humanitarianism originate long before the Roman religion of christianity was brutally imposed upon the world in the 4th century.
    The “golden rule” is followed by most members of our recently evolved species of ape regardless of religion and very often in spite of enthrallment to a religion.
    The top ten most peaceful nations in the world are also the ten least religious nations in history.
    The third largest and fastest growing human demographic prove daily that we are not only good without gods, we are better.

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg
    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png

  • rationalobservations?

    Of COURSE! There is no example of utopia in the world today.
    I merely point out that the most peaceful nations are the least religious nations and that Canada ranks 106 places higher than America.
    I am not sure how you think that denigrating Canada and that fact neutralises or gets America off the hook of the relative absence of peace within the gun and religion crazy mass shooting capital of the world known as the USA?

  • rationalobservations?

    I am still not sure how this validates, justifies or excuses religion or excuses the USA from the reasons it is so far down the Global Peace Index?

  • Obscurely

    So you can’t take ‘yes’ for an answer? 😉 We progressives don’t ultimately care if you’re right in everything you just posted (and we def agree Constantine’s imperial co-option of Christianity was the worst thing that ever happened to it). We’re far more interested in the ethical baby we share with Muslims, Buddhists and atheists than our doctrinal-historical bathwater — “Jesus” (whoever he was or wasn’t) took things like the Golden Rule to a whole ‘nuther level of human moral evolution (see esp theorists like Rene Girard on this) …

  • rationalobservations?

    You appear to be advocating humanitarianism, not christianity or any other politico-corporate business of mind manipulation and anti-humanitarianism?
    1,000,000 BC The fictional Fred Flintstone helps a stranger who was robbed and left to die. He says “I’d want him to help me.” Golden rule thinking is born!

    c. 1,000,000 BC to 10,000 BC Humans find that cooperative hunting works better. Small, genetically similar clans who use the golden rule to promote cooperation and sharing have a better chance to survive.

    c. 1800 BC Egypt’s “Eloquent peasant” story has been said to have the earliest known golden-rule saying: “Do to the doer to cause that he do.” But the translation is disputed and it takes much stretching to see this as the golden rule. (See my §3.2e.)

    c. 1450 BC to 450 BC The Jewish Bible has golden-rule like passages, including: “Don’t oppress a foreigner, for you well know how it feels to be a foreigner, since you were foreigners yourselves in the land of Egypt” (Exodus 23:9) and “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18).

    c. 700 BC In Homer’s Odyssey, goddess Calypso tells Odysseus: “I’ll be as careful for you as I’d be for myself in like need. I know what is fair and right.”

    c. 624-546 BC First philosopher Thales, when asked how to live virtuously, reportedly replies (according to the unreliable Diogenes Laertius c. 225 AD): “By never doing ourselves what we blame in others.” A similar saying is attributed to Thales’s contemporary, Pittacus of Mytilene.

    c. 563-483 BC Buddha in India teaches compassion and shunning unhealthy desires. His golden rule says: “There is nothing dearer to man than himself; therefore, as it is the same thing that is dear to you and to others, hurt not others with what pains yourself” (Dhammapada, Northern Canon, 5:18).

    c. 551-479 BC Confucius sums up his teaching as: “Don’t do to others what you don’t want them to do to you.” (Analects 15:23)

    c. 522 BC Maeandrius of Samos (in Greece), taking over from an evil tyrant, says (according to the historian Herodotus c. 440 BC, in his Histories 3.142): “What I condemn in another I will, if I may, avoid myself.” Xerxes of Persia c. 485 BC said something similar (Histories 7.136).

    c. 500 BC Jainism, a religion of India that promotes non-violence, compassion, and the sacredness of life, teaches the golden rule: “A monk should treat all beings as he himself would be treated.” (Jaina Sutras, Sutrakritanga, bk. 1, 10:1-3)

    c. 500 BC Taoist Laozi says: “To those who are good to me, I am good; and to those who are not good to me, I am also good; and thus all get to receive good.” (Tao Te Ching 49) A later work says: “Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain and your neighbor’s loss as your loss.” (T’ai-Shang Kan-Ying P’ien)

    c. 500 BC Zoroaster in Persia teaches the golden rule: “That character is best that doesn’t do to another what isn’t good for itself” and “Don’t do to others what isn’t good for you.”

    c. 479-438 BC Mo Tzu in China teaches the golden rule: “Universal love is to regard another’s state as one’s own. A person of universal love will take care of his friend as he does of himself, and take care of his friend’s parents as his own. So when he finds his friend hungry he will feed him, and when he finds him cold he will clothe him.” (Book of Mozi, ch. 4)

    c. 440 BC Socrates (c. 470-399 BC) and later Plato (c. 428-347 BC) begin the classical era of Greek philosophy. The golden rule, while not prominent in their thinking, sometimes leaves a trace. As Socrates considers whether to escape from jail, he imagines himself in the place of the state, who would be harmed (Crito). And Plato says: “I’d have no one touch my property, if I can help it, or disturb it without consent on my part; if I’m a man of reason, I must treat the property of others the same way” (Laws). (Wattles 1996: 32-6)

    c. 436-338 BC Isocrates in Greece teaches the golden rule as promoting self-interest (you do unto others so that they’ll do unto you). He says: “Don’t do to others what angers you when you experience it from others.” The golden rule then becomes common, in positive and negative forms, in Greco-Roman culture, in Sextus, Demosthenes, Xenophon, Cassius Dio, Diogenes Laertius, Ovid, and others. The golden rule has less impact on Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and early Stoics. (Meier 2009: 553f)

    c. 400 BC Hinduism has positive and negative golden rules: “One who regards all creatures as his own self, and behaves towards them as towards his own self attains happiness. One should never do to another what one regards as hurtful to one’s own self. This, in brief, is the rule of righteousness. In happiness and misery, in the agreeable and the disagreeable, one should judge effects as if they came to one’s own self.” (Mahabharata bk. 13: Anusasana Parva, §113)

    384-322 BC Aristotle says: “As the virtuous man is to himself, he is to his friend also, for his friend is another self” (Nicomachean Ethics 9:9). Diogenes Laertius (c. 225 AD) reports Aristotle as saying that we should behave to our friends as we wish our friends to behave to us.

    c. 372-289 BC Mencius, Confucius’s follower, says (Works bk. 7, A:4): “Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.”

    c. 300 BC Sextus the Pythagorean in his Sentences expresses the golden rule positively and negatively: “As you wish your neighbors to treat you, so treat them. What you censure, do not do.” (Meier 2009: 554 & 628)

    c. 150 BC Various Jewish sources have golden-rule sayings. Tobit 4:16 says “See that you never do to another what you’d hate to have done to yourself.” Sirach 31:15 says “Judge the needs of your guest by your own.” And the Letter of Aristeas (see Meier 2009: 553f) says “Insofar as you [the king] do not wish evils to come to you, but to partake of every blessing, [it would be wise] if you did this with your subjects.”

    c. 30 BC to 10 AD Rabbi Hillel, asked to explain the Torah while a Gentile stood on one foot, uses the golden rule: “What is hateful to yourself, don’t do to another. That is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary. Go and learn.” (Sanhedrin of the Babylonian Talmud 56a)

    c. 20 BC to 50 AD Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria, in speaking of unwritten customs and ordinances, mentions first “Don’t do to another what you’d be unwilling to have done to you.” (Hypothetica 7:6)

    c. 4 BC to 27 AD According to his legends written centuries later: “Jesus” proclaims love (of God and neighbor) and the golden rule to be the basis of how to live. Those men who wrote bibles attribute to “Luke” 6:31 gives the golden rule in the context of loving your enemies, later illustrated by the Good Samaritan parable. Again attributed to “Matthew” 7:12 says: “Treat others as you want to be treated, for this sums up the Law and the prophets.”

    c. 4 BC to 65 AD Roman Stoic Seneca teaches the golden rule: “Let us put ourselves in the place of the man with whom we are angry; we are often unwilling to bear what we would have been willing to inflict,” “Let us give in the way we would like to receive – willingly, quickly, and without hesitation,” and “Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your betters.” The golden rule fits well the ethics of the Stoics, who propose a natural moral law, accessible to everyone’s reason, that directs us to be just and considerate toward everyone. (Wattles 1996: 39f)
    https://criticofchristianity.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/320798_292559984099120_1613929294_n.jpg
    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • Ame

    Why consider France a freer nation than the USA when their president has power to undo the people’s vote?

  • Ame

    “Rejoice that education and free, secular democracy has already proved to be the antidote to the poison of religion.”

    I have been addressing this all along and you pull out a survey to start talking about peaceful. The more secular governments you suggest by linking that survey are not as free as you think upon closer expection. But hey, I guess peace and security with the sword of the government at your neck is more important than freedom of the people.

  • Obscurely

    Now you’re starting to get it! 😀 — YES, progressive Christianity is part of the long line of humanitarianism you’ve traced so beautifully, our strain of it just happened to come into being through an evolution of Jewish monotheism. As intelligent as you obviously are, why didn’t you already know that?

  • rationalobservations?

    The point appears to be that the most peaceful nations are those in which religion has all but disappeared while the most religion dominated nations are the least peaceful.
    If you have evidence that contradicts that independent assessment please feel free to present it.
    It obviously offends members of the rump of religionists who live in the so called “developed nations” that these facts are now published – but there’s no need to be so obsessive in your self evident denial of the fact that education and democracy are eradicating religion and bringing peace to lands in which religion is powerless and almost moribund.
    Your hyperbolic and dishonest recycled fake news regarding the state of democracy in the rest of the rest and delusion that the elective dictatorship of the USA is in any way affording freedom to individual Americans is risible.
    You are of course “free” to have your kids and the rest of you kin folk mass murdered by a fellow citizen who you demand must be “free” to own an assault rifle.
    Many of the rest of us have demanded and achieved freedom from that kind of threat to our lives and the peace of our towns and cities and nations..

  • rationalobservations?

    Now YOU’RE starting to get it. All you need is humanitarianism and to shrug off the vile ideology of religion to become a fully fledged humanitarian.
    Religion is a mere distraction that is declining in the most educated and advanced societies and nations.

  • Obscurely

    Why not build bridges with like-minded progressive Christians instead of burning them with disrespectful dismissals like “the vile ideology of religion” — fyi, there’s no ideology in progressive Christianity, unless it’s the same one you’re afflicted with! 🙂

  • rationalobservations?

    Why not cast off all primitive and childish superstition and build bridges with other humanitarian humanists?

  • Ame

    Canada is currently attacking religious freedom. Cheers

  • rationalobservations?

    Outlawing persecution and discrimination is NOT a form of discrimination or persecution.

    Few care what religionists do or think in the privacy of their mind, home or clubs (called churches and mosques etc). Keep you religion and your taboos to yourself and you will find that no one cares about them so long as they do not break our secular civil laws.

  • rationalobservations?

    France is not utopia. It ranks at “only” 63 places higher than the USA in the most recent “Global Peace Index”.

    I am puzzled why you continue this obsession with who is the least worst nation and why other nations may be almost as bad as the guns and gods crazy mass murder capital of the world USA in some respects?

    Your patriotism is understood and the fake news you recycle is familiar to many of us. That fails to excuse any nation that puts guns before children and is willing to sacrifice other people’s children as part of their worship of guns.

    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png

  • Ame

    You still have a quoted claim to defend.

  • Obscurely

    I guess I’m not getting through to you? My whole point has been that progressive Christians don’t share the “primitive and childish superstition” (your words, not mine) that other Christians may have. As for building (vs burning) bridges with those who don’t share your worldview, isn’t that what rational and enlightened people DO? — I’m certainly trying hard to find common ground with you here, but you keep hurling insults instead 🙁

  • Ame

    Passing a law that prohibits all forms of religious discrimination is certainly a defense of freedom of religion. I know that you’re referring to M-103 (a poorly written law as it only targets Islamophobia), but I am not even talking about that.

    I am talking about Canadian government pulling the accreditation of Trinity Western University not for anything of the content being taught at the university, but as a statement against its religious policy of barring premarital sex. The government somehow found a wayto make it LGBTQ discrimination, but the policy said nothing of the sort. Just that sn evangelical unversity prohibits any sexual relations outside of marriage between a man and a woman, which includes heterosexuals. It’s a private religious university that people can freely choose to go to or not, but now the government has the power to say “you are not even a university,” and telling all those who graduate from it, “your degrees mean nothing.”

  • Triggerman1976

    Nice use of equivocation, Courtney. Not to mention the straw man.

  • Triggerman1976

    You misspelled “ignorant”.

  • rationalobservations?

    What “claim”?

  • Jason Reagan

    How so precisely? Please provide quotes.

  • Jason Reagan

    We all get along about the same as all other people groups. Humans be human.

  • Jason Reagan

    So atheism leads to better power lifting. Nice! Does that apply to dumbbell rows, bench press as well? 🙂

  • Jason Reagan

    But more likely to be faceless and constantly toting a tri-color pie chart… 🙂

  • Jason Reagan
  • Jason Reagan
  • slripk

    Uh…yes. All of it!

  • rationalobservations?

    In a 7-2 decision, the Canadian Supreme Court has ruled against Trinity Western University in their fight to open a law school, siding with the Law Society of British Columbia in its belief that equality laws and LGBTQ+ human civil rights trump “religious freedom” rights.

    Denying the “right” to persecute and discriminate against certain ordinary law abiding citizens is not a form of persecution or discrimination.

    Any business or educational institution that persecutes and/or discriminates against any minority group of ordinary citizens deserves all it gets.

    Writing for the majority, Chief Justice Richard Wagner, along with Justices Rosalie Abella, Michael Moldaver, Andromache Karakatsanis, and Clement Gascon stated “The LSBC’s [Law Society of British Columbia] decision not to approve TWU’s [Trinity Western University] proposed law school represents a proportionate balance between the limitation on the religious protections under s. 2 (a) of the Charter and the statutory objectives that the LSBC sought to pursue. The LSBC’s decision was therefore reasonable.”

    If you break the law you can’t expect not to get busted.

    BTW: Lawful marriage is whatever the law of a nation specifies it to be. Across most of the developed world religious rituals have no meaning in law and lawful marriage is a contract between two people that affords them certain rights and demands from them certain obligations and lasts as long as both parties to that contract agree to it continuing.

    Secular law has no interest in “gay rights” or “LGBTQ rights”. Only the upholding of the law with regard to every citizen[s civil and social rights.

    Edit: BTW/2: I had no idea what M-103 was until I looked it up. I fail to see why you think it is connected with the discriminatory practices of Trinity Western University and the abolition of all such practices?

  • rationalobservations?

    Hardly as we are doctors, lawyers, teachers, university lecturers, priests, builders, plumbers, farmers, miners, oil riggers, and members of every age group, social class, ethnicity and occupation.
    The third largest and fastest growing human demographic fill every possible description of the human form of recently evolved ape.
    The only sure similarity between us and that we all agree upon is there is no evidence of the existence of any of the millions of undetected and undetectable gods and goddesses.
    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png

  • rationalobservations?

    You’re not getting through as you don’t write anything credible.
    You label yourself as a (“progressive”) christian yet appear to be denying the primitive and childish superstitions of christianity.
    If you do not believe in the mythology and superstitions of christianity, why do you label yourself as christian?
    If you are a humanist why disguise yourself?

  • rationalobservations?

    No sign of that.
    However an alternative spelling of ignorant is “christian”.

  • Ame

    Hey, fine the university of you have evidence of discrimination. But a government that can take accreditation away for reasons other the best interests of education, that is a serious intrusion of government. Perhaps in Canada that is no big deal.

  • Obscurely

    I’m sorry, but mutual respect demands that you cannot assert or imply a right to tell me or anyone how to be a humanist — after all, “Live and let live” is the heart of any truly humanist creed …

  • Triggerman1976

    I’ve got a full analysis forthcoming at http://www.triggermanblog.wordpress.com

  • Triggerman1976

    Clearly, it is, given the blatant errors.

  • Mr. James Parson

    You forgot the computer programmers

  • Mr. James Parson

    “I don’t know” is unbelievably [sic] powerful and may very well be the best answer

  • rationalobservations?

    Is programming computers no longer an “occupation”?

  • Damien Priestly

    Spam for your BS site…flagged.

  • Triggerman1976

    That’s what people say when they don’t have a coherent response.

  • (((GC)))

    Yes!

    BTW, I love, and have started borrowing, how you sometimes use “No holy” to emphasize that some figure of speech with religious roots is not to be taken literally! (And to mock “No homo.”)

    (And yes, I appreciate guys who aren’t afraid of boy cooties, who are comfortable with hugs and such, no disclaimers needed, quite orthogonally to what sorts of people they like in bed.)

  • (((GC)))

    For smaller questions too, one of the most powerful answers a parent can have is “I don’t know. Let’s learn about it / let’s find out.”

    (In our time, that includes learning to evaluate the trustworthiness of internet sources too! There’s stuff out there far more dangerous and malevolent than an infinite number of kitties at an infinite number of keyboards.)

  • Jason Reagan

    Duded…I was just making a silly comment 😉

  • rationalobservations?

    Thanks for making me laugh wit your assertion that no one can tell anyone else how to be a humanist followed by an instruction on how to be a humanist.
    However I am very happy to “live and let live”. It’s a shame that religionists don’t see it that way and are constantly trying to impose their taboos upon the rest of us.

  • rationalobservations?

    Denying the “right” to persecute and discriminate against certain ordinary law abiding citizens is not a form of persecution or discrimination.

    Any institution or business has the option to comply with the law and not to persecute minorities by discriminating against them, or to close down or be closed down.

    Although I have not spent much time in Canada myself, I am very pleased that the law and civil rights appears to be a “big deal” to Canadians.

  • Obscurely

    NICE TRY! 🙂 How is asking a question telling anyone how to be a humanist? (check my post) — next time try answering my question instead of insulting me (again)?

    Here’s another Q for you to ignore — isn’t asking honest questions something humanists characteristically do?

  • rationalobservations?

    Yes.

  • Bald Humanist

    “Yes, self-pleasure brings a great deal of joy.” And carpal tunnel if not careful

  • Bald Humanist

    A promise of blog post =/= an actual response to my request to back your claim with her quotes

  • The more I read the putdowns some Christians so favor, toward ‘nonbelievers”, the more one thing stands out: they’re jealous. We don’t suffer guilt, we don’t spend our days fretting over God’s wrath because we might have disobeyed an ancient law, we don’t pray for stuff and then discover God has denied us–again–and it’s Our Fault–again…

    It’s a lot like coming to school in a pretty new dress, and the girl next to you says, “where did you get THAT thing? The Goodwill bag?” sigh.

    I was thinking the other day, as hard as we work here, as many old lady aches and twinges we have, my husband and I are relatively content, happy human beings. We answer only to ourselves, not the skygod. And that’s cool.

  • Triggerman1976

    I’m sorry I didn’t realize that I worked for you. I’ll get right on that.
    https://gph.is/1coTkSO

  • Bald Humanist

    When you make a claim — you are simply making work for yourself.. i.e. onus of proof. If you do not desire your claims to be taken seriously then you are of course free to refuse to provide evidence.

  • Triggerman1976

    I will. I am. Stay tuned.

  • Bald Humanist

    Will. i. am. ? Have not heard from you since the Black Eyed Peas!

  • roberto quintas

    Joy is not a privilegie. But it is not reasonable, logical, neither have evidence. Therefore, an atheist should not pursue joy… [defiance intended]

  • What?

  • Morgan Lefaye

    I suffer from six different mental illnesses (all diagnosed by shrinks at various points). All of them are caused or exacerbated by long stints in fundamentalist Christianity. I’ve gotten over the guilt about sex a long time ago. However, I still feel guilt about common things like being angry (because I was told it was as bad as murder) and refused to practice self-care or learn how to set boundaries because I thought it was out of keeping for women or selfish or whatever stupid stupidness I picked up.

    I escaped from Christianity long ago and the stuff has the half-life of toxic waste. Luckily, my wife is teaching me the things I missed out on growing up, like assertiveness.

  • Perry Widhalm

    I was raised a Roman Catholic but eventually learned what myths and metaphor are so I fell away from the organized religion of my youth. Clearly, there are two distinct aspects to all religious traditions …. morality and mystery. We human being cannot live without either facet of religion in our lives. For instance, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris are avowed super atheists yet both men are religious fundamentalists when it comes to ethics (replacing morality) and scientific investigation (replacing mystery). We human beings have a deep need to organize our knowledge, experiences and intuitions in way that gives meaning, direction and purpose to our lives. Essentially, that is the religious impulse that every person I have ever known possesses. Although, amusingly, many atheists cannot recognize their own religious impulses and innate desires.

  • roberto quintas

    Well, atheist like to say that only what have evidence exist, that the world only can be understanded with reason and logic. As you can read BertB comments in “A Tippling Philosopher” at the article “One True Religion”.

  • Jane Ravenswood

    of course atheists feel joy. and that is the reason that many theists are scared to death of atheists. We show that their claims aren’t true. I’ve had far too many theists claim that I have to be angry, depressed, joyless, lonely, etc. In that I am joyful, happy, contented, etc, I show that sackcloth and ashes aren’t required. I’ve chucked that fear and ignorance and am far better for it.

  • Jane Ravenswood

    yep, D&D. when the fundies started with that, I thought they were complete morons.
    but I would like to have a fireball during rush hour.

  • Andrea Fitzgerald

    Wonderful post!

  • Edward Silha

    Most of the money contributed to Doctors Without Borders and other like charities are used to help people who need the help. Large amounts of money contributed to churches (charity?) are spent on glorious church buildings, parson’s homes, jet airplanes and more that benefits only church members and their parson.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    None of these points, of course, are unavailable to religious people, unless you define religion as fundamentalism.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    That sounds familiar to me – I experienced something rather like it again when I moved on from atheism. A sense of great freedom and joy and release.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    God-fearing means the old sense of the word, as in respect. It’s of course the complete opposite of fear to embrace divine love (in my experience, and widely reported by the billions of people who experience divine love). Poison? No mate – you are free to embrace atheism without denigrating others, so please do refrain from such abuse.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    That is down to money of course – and most of it ill-gotten at the expense of colonised countries. It continues today.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    The problem in the US is inequity, not religion, and equity and a high standard of living have much more to do with those “utopia” nations than religion – I would say the move away from religion is much more of an effect than a cause, because (in my opinion) comfort and complacency leads to self-regard and distraction rather than embracing ultimate reality.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Pity he couldn’t take his own advice seriously with “imagine no possessions”. Such treacly preaching is beneath Lennon, who did much better with “everybody’s got something to hide except for me and my monkey”

  • rationalobservations?

    Sorry to have touched such a raw nerve but your response is typical of the condition of denial of most religionists, Rob.
    I wonder how you consider you personally imagine you “experience divine love” and why the starving millions who die each day and why the children wasting away with cancer (and other blights ignored by any of “the gods” – including your undetectable and undetected originally Canaanite daily “Yahweh”) have been deemed unworthy too receive this imaginary boon.
    The delusion yoyu describe is also shared by many who dismiss your mythology and corrupt business of religion just as you dismiss theirs.

    https://criticofchristianity.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/320798_292559984099120_1613929294_n.jpg
    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    What??
    Your failure to answer my question is noted.
    Your word salad appears meaningless??

  • rationalobservations?

    The nations that have moved on from the childish superstitions and self interested lies of religion now embrace reality.
    Your continued dishonesty and ill informed and unsupported claims are once again noted but are all to easy to dismiss..

  • Pamela

    I am a faithful Catholic as well as a traditional Catholic. My faith gives me great joy, meaning, hope and true peace. I don’t understand ex-Catholics who were so unhappy. They obviously never learned the faith as it was meant to be learned and lived. As for atheists and all their anti-religious feelings I say you were created (yes, someone actually brought you and all matter into existence) with free will for many of life’s choices. You are free to live a completely Godless life. We believers wish you the best. I do not care that you have chosen to live a life without God. So please stop worrying about what we believe and be happy.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Ok, I’m not going to get into a conversation with someone hell-bent on bigotry against religious people – good luck to you mate. Dishonesty? Nah, but hope eventually you can cope with actual reality instead of slagging off at people.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    No raw nerve being touched in me, I’m just stating an opinion. Is disagreement difficult for you, mate?

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Clearly you’re someone who hasn’t yet learned the meaning of “word salad” – I’d recommend a quick search in google scholar to enlighten yourself. Bye, troll, I won’t engage further with angry controlling people such as your posts suggest you to be.

  • Atheists are joyless.

    They’re not, but so what if they were? Does this make atheism less likely to be true?

  • rationalobservations?

    The first online definition is “a confused or unintelligible mixture of seemingly random words and phrases”.
    In response to the question: “Which modern, peaceful, educated, free, secular and predominantly non-religious democracy has offered violence of any kind to the remaining rapidly declining rump of religionists that are actually treated with sympathy and kindness as an eccentric throwback to a more superstitious, ignorant and less civilised age?”
    You responded with a confused or unintelligible mixture of seemingly random words and phrases that failed to address or answer that question as follows:
    “That is down to money of course – and most of it ill-gotten at the expense of colonised countries. It continues today.”

    I guess it is inevitable that confused and ignorant folk like you will always cut and run when you realise that you cannot justify your claims or answer any questions.
    Farewell buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…

  • rationalobservations?

    The question mark (?) in my Disqus pseudonym is there to invite logic and evidence supported discussion. I am sorry that you are incapable of answering that invitation.
    Blanket and unsupported denial does not qualify and your whining is symptomatic and predictable.

  • Pennybird

    Oh, I don’t know that secularists don’t have guilt, shame and threats. I grew up with plenty, just not god-based. But, yes, there’s tons of joy too, and a lot comes from the mysteries in nature. Fascinating stuff, that.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Sorry you’re incapable of reading plain lucid English. I’ll leave you to your baiting and hating dude – life’s too short.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    And no, it’s not cutting and running to remove oneself from an abusive situation – you don’t get to abuse me and keep my company sorry mate – ffs learn some manners and respect for people who have different perspectives from your dogma

  • rationalobservations?

    Look, Rob – you already made it very clear that you have no justification for your views and no answer to those who confuse and confound you. It’s pointless continuing to reiterate that evidence of ignorance and incompetence on your part.
    Twice now you have made the pathetic admission of cutting and running from further humiliation – yet here you are back for yet another drubbing.
    Go with my sincere sympathy and fond regards in the hope that you may gain better knowledge and a little wisdom and insight with maturity.
    Farewell little buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…
    Best wishes to you and yours, son.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • rationalobservations?

    You merely appear to admit the depth and intensity of your brainwashed indoctrination and bemoan the fact that others have seen through and/or shrugged off that indoctrination in favour of peace, love, joy and the recognition of the reality and precious unique opportunity to maximise the experience of life between personal nonexistence before conception and eternal nonexistence after death.

    The top ten most peaceful nations are the ten least religious nations and the third largest and fastest growing human demographic are the happy and educated non-religious.
    The millennial generation and “generation Z” are the least religious cohort in all human history and the decline of religion within and across the better educated, free and now predominantly secular nations of the developed western world is a trend that appears unstoppable and that also appears to be the aspiration of the millennial generation in lands still brutally dominated by a non-christian religious totalitarianism in an entirely similar way that the west was brutally dominated by christian totalitarianism through centuries of terror, torture, genocidal crusades and hundreds of years of inquisitions and vile persecution of innocent citizens.

    The obscenely wealthy catholic business of religion and it’s bank continue to amass $£Euro billions and none of that endless wealth is dispensed to humanity in this world still filled with ignorance, starvation, poverty and other dire human need. Meanwhile, Popes pontificate about the “needy poor” from their golden throne within the most luxurious, treasure filled palace the world has ever contained.
    If you wonder why humanitarian humanists who are working to ease and overcome the difficulties of mankind are “anti-religious” it is because religion is anti-humanitarian.
    https://criticofchristianity.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/320798_292559984099120_1613929294_n.jpg
    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png
    https://freethoughtnaija.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/graveyard-of-the-gods.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Again, Rob – you already made it very clear that you have no justification for your views and no answer to those who confuse and confound you. It’s pointless continuing to reiterate that evidence of ignorance and incompetence on your part.
    You have demonstrated your fragile sensibilities and made the pathetic admission of cutting and running from further humiliation – yet here you are back for yet another drubbing.
    You mistake straight talking for abuse and that is something one day your may grow out of when you gain maturity and a better understanding of the cut and thrust of discussion and debate.

    Perhaps you will finally retire from discussion with my sincere sympathy and fond regards in the hope that you may gain better knowledge and a little wisdom and insight with maturity.

    Farewell little buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…

    Best wishes to you and yours, son.

  • rationalobservations?

    The two distinct aspects of the major religions still active today appear to be wealth and power.
    Humanitarian humanists are all about activities connected with morality and charity while the world’s most obscenely wealthy institution (the Roman church and it’s Vatican Bank) merely hoard their great wealth and withhold it from humanity in this world filled with dire and catastrophic need.

    The top ten most peaceful nations today are also the ten least religious nations and the third largest and fastest growing human demographic are the “godless” non-religious. Humanity has already demonstrated that education and free, secular democracy is the antidote to self serving and anti-humanitarian tyrannies, institutions and businesses of religion.

    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png
    https://freethoughtnaija.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/graveyard-of-the-gods.jpg

  • rationalobservations?
  • rationalobservations?

    Joy is experienced and is observable and detectable. none of the millions of gods and goddesses have ever been detected and are undetectable.
    Your lack of logic and understanding is something you demonstrate within all your irrational comments.

    Shrug off your indoctrination and rectify your ignorance, Roberto!

  • rationalobservations?

    Actually it appears that the communities that are predominantly “godless” are in fact the most peaceful.
    The top ten most peaceful nations in the world are also the ten least religious nations according to the annually published “Global Peace Index”.
    (As an aside: The gun worshipping religion dominated USA ranks at 114 of the 164 countries listed.)
    Religion has declined to the point of almost oblivion across mush of the developed world and the benefits are there for all to observe and the “Global Peace Index” to measure and record.
    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png
    https://criticofchristianity.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/320798_292559984099120_1613929294_n.jpg
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • rationalobservations?

    “Moved on” to what?
    Don’t you mean “regressed back to…”?

  • Perry Widhalm

    Have you ever traveled to the 3rd World friend? I have many times especially in southern Africa. I have never encountered a single atheist organization in the field. Not one. The two largest aid organizations are the Roman Catholic Church and the UN. Atheists love to drone on about what good people they are but that’s about it. Where it counts, they are not to be found.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    No, very much progressed, but I’m done with your hateful ways

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Nah, but at least you kind of tried I suppose

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Actually nah

  • rationalobservations?

    I have been actively involved in supporting and funding many projects to enhance the development of the developing world for more than 30 years (few who are actually involved in charity and development still reference the developing world as “the 3rd world”).

    I have never discovered any organisation or individual who was funded and supported by any religious institution. I have , of course, encountered individuals who claimed membership of a “church” and have funded themselves or been funded by a secular charity and there are many secular charities that include the name of a religion in their corporate name. None receive a cent from the religious business they incorporate and some catholic charities divert funds to the already obscenely wealthy Vatican from which not one cent ever emerges to support anything but the employees, property and enterprises of that corporate institution.

    There are not many atheist organisations, but the third largest and fastest growing human demographic are “godless” non-believers and most of us are also charitable humanitarian humanists who put humanity first and are appalled by the time and money wasted upon exclusively self serving businesses of religion.

    The Roman Catholic “church” and/or Vatican Bank is NOT listed as funding any charity and the United Nations is a secular organisation funded by many predominantly secular nations.

    Those still in thrall to any of the declining and exclusively self serving businesses of religion love to drone on about what good people they are and many are nearly as good as atheists who do good as its own reward. Where it counts, the actual institutions and businesses of religion are not to be found.

    https://criticofchristianity.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/320798_292559984099120_1613929294_n.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Is this yet another lie or are you really going to cease this meaningless pitiful whining?

  • rationalobservations?

    Why have you not even had the wherewithal to even try to present or justify a position, claim or denial?
    Thanks for keeping me amused and I will possibly miss your pathetic nonsense in the way one misses tooth ache by noticing its absence with relief.

    So once again: Farewell little buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…

    Best wishes to you and yours, son.

  • rationalobservations?

    Run along then and let the grownups talk sensibly about stuff you appear not to understand.
    Go with my sincere sympathy and fond regards in the hope that you may gain better knowledge and a little wisdom and insight with maturity.
    Farewell little buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…

  • Morgan Lefaye

    Squeeeeee! Love the meme!

  • Rae Meadows

    I am a Pantheist/Pagan, but I totally relate to all of these points. I’m not down with the dogmatic shame or guilt. I was raised fundamentalist and my poor partner went to a Christian school. Casting the dogma aside was a liberating feeling. I would definitely describe it as joy.

  • Perry Widhalm

    Not sure where you are getting your information. For instance, check out the Maryknoll Fathers. My father donated to these Catholic priests for 50 years.
    Check it out: https://maryknollsociety.org/
    Another one my wife and I have donated to is the Catholic charity “Hearts For Zambia”. They care for about 400 Aids orphans in northern Zambia.
    Check it out: http://heartsforzambia.org/who_we_are/
    Parsing Catholic people from the Roman Catholic church is a non-sequitur.
    Again, I’ve never encountered an atheist organization doing anything but self-promoting and virtue-signaling …. like your replies.

  • roberto quintas

    You aren’t serious. Joy is a feeling, it’s subjective,and you only see corporal reactions, therefore It doesn’t exist, accordingly to atheist claims.

  • roberto quintas

    “I experienced Joy, therefore It is real” isn’t different from “I experienced God/Jesus/whatever, therefore is real”.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your pathetic debunked bunkum is unsupported by anything you write and therefore remains debunked.

  • rationalobservations?

    Which atheist makes these claims?
    It appears that you only recycle what religionists falsely claim about atheists. Such ignorance and calculated dishonesty is risible.

    It is apparently only you who claim that joy does not exist.

    Your warped views appear to be the result of being deluded and corrupted by the lies and evil anti-humanitarian dogma of religion. Please try to rise above the swamp in which you have submerged yourself.

    Life is good.
    People are mostly good.
    Religion poisons and devalues everything – as you continually demonstrate.

  • rationalobservations?

    Joy is observable and detectable. It can be monitored through the activity within the brain of the person experiencing joy.

    All the millions of gods and goddesses you do not believe exist and those you have been brainwashed to believe in are undetected and undetectable and any “joy” the deluded religionists may feel cannot be demonstrated as being connected with anything supernatural or paranormal.

    The whole population of ancient Egypt knew and lived with gods that were the prototype for later versions including the originally Canaanite god “Yahweh” that was stolen by the folk who were in the process of reinventing their history and themselves as “Israelite” or “Hebrew” tribes. If human responses to indoctrination is an indication of truth in that which is being indoctrinated – you must claim that all the millions of gods dreamed up by men and worshipped by men down the ages “must” be real.

    Shrug off your indoctrination and rectify your ignorance, Roberto!

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • rationalobservations?

    Thank you for so graphically reinforcing my point, Perry.

    Your father as a presumed religionist and myself as a recovered religionist and now avowed atheist are identical in our charitable instincts and actions.
    Your father contributed to charity just as I contribute to several charities. NOT “the church”.

    You and your wife as declared religionists and I and my wife as atheists are identical in our charitable instincts and actions.
    I support several secular charities that use my money for the good of humanity and have sponsored many generations of African village children for over 30 years and am proud of the many now adults who took full advantage of the home life and education provided for them. I avoid Catholic charities especially since the previous Pope’s butler revealed (among many other scandals) that the then received regular cheques made payable to him in the sum of Euro 500.000 from Catholic chrities that did not and do not receive a cent from the obscenely wealthy RCC and its Global Vatican mega-billions investment bank. This politico corporate organisation masquerading as a “religion” is considered to be the wealthiest institution in the world and as the potential for return on commercial investments diminished it is reported that the RCC/Vatican bank have resorted to buying and storing gold bullion as a means of storing and hoarding its ever more obscene wealth.

    You should get out a little and look at the work of the many secular charities you claim do not exist and perhaps reconsider any donations to the self serving and anti-humanitarian business that is the RCC?

    Best wishes and kindest regards from one humanitarian to another.

  • Perry Widhalm

    WOW. You are truly ill friend. I did not write anything about secular charities. I wrote that I have not encountered an ATHEIST charity. Where do you get off describing my father’s works or mine? Typical Leftist idiot utilizing identity politics. As I wrote moron, my wife and I have spent years in the 3rd World and witness what goes on there first hand. GFY Marxist.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Because of your abusive, controlling tone

  • Perry Widhalm

    Typical arrogant reply from a Leftist worshipping at the alter of virtue-signaling and self-promotion. As I wrote, in all my travels in the 3rd World I have NEVER encounted even ONE Atheistic organization. Not one. Where did I write secular charity? What’s wrong with you. Do you realize you are a Fundamentalist Atheist? Yea, just like those Christian Fundamentalists or Roman Catholics you despise.

  • rationalobservations?
  • rationalobservations?

    How can you possibly tell how much joy an avowed religionist is getting from life, GM?
    Surely if they believe in heaven and hell and all the phony and fake so called “sins” that actually harm no one (and are mostly not crimes while so many crimes are not “sins”) they must be worried (unhappy) about the consequence of those “sins” (actually harmless expressions of normal human nature) that were invented in order for religion to control people and extort money from them for fake “redemption” and forgiveness.
    Those religionists who appear happy may be masking their worries or ignoring them?
    Religionists are more to be pitied than despised – and that’s what the majority of us do in the most peaceful and l;east religious free, predominantly secular democracies of the western world.

  • rationalobservations?

    How dare you insult me in this way!?
    Is there no end to your dishonesty?
    Where do YOU “get off” describing me as “leftist” or as an “idiot”.
    I despise communism and communism light socialism. It is a blight that destroys economy, prosperity and individual freedom and is very similar in totalitarianism to religion in that respect. If the legends could ever be historically authenticated (and proof of “his” existence ever discovered) – they indicate that “Jesus” was a communist and probably a homosexual. Why would you follow someone you appear to hate with such vengeance and fury?

    How many religion linked charities flag themselves as religious?
    Your nit picking regarding the word atheist is typical and the term non-religious or secular is synonymous with “godless” or not religious.

    Your fury at being confounded is also typical of the bigoted and narrow minded religiot.

    It is most noticeable that you have no argument against my description of the despicable politico-corporate enterprise and global investment bank that calls itself the “Roman Catholic Church” and no evidence of any charitable activity undertaken by that enterprise.

    GFY yourself.

    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png

  • rationalobservations?

    Hahaha.
    Oh yes, that old failed excuse for an excuse?
    Really??

    If you had any evidence supported argument – your would have taken great pride in presenting it.
    If you had any validation, justification or excuse for your position – you would have put it forward long before now.

    So once again: Farewell and run along little buddy – but if you do happen to ever have anything interesting and evidence supported to contribute – feel free to respond to any of my future entries.
    Take all the time you need…

    Best wishes to you and yours, son.

  • rationalobservations?

    I am truly sorry that you are driven to such fury by that which confuses and confounds you, Perry.

    I abhor totalitarian communism and communist lite socialism almost as much as I abhor totalitarian religion.

    Again: Your nit picking regarding the word atheist is typical and the term non-religious or secular is synonymous with “godless” or not religious.

    It has been said that the charitable work of religious people and organisations is invalid because religious people are only giving to ensure their place in heaven while the non-religious do good simply as its own reward.

    Tiresomely, we heathens still need to explain that, no, we are not mere hedonists or nihilists or people who don’t believe in anything at all, we have just decided not to subscribe to the veracity or one or another clutch of fairy tales.

    There are some strong arguments that religion does in fact corrupt charity! Examples abound of organisations with a religiously-inspired mandate operating on the ground in ways which are unfair and unequal if not outright coercive.
    Leo Igwe is the head of the Nigerian Humanist Movement and the International Humanist and Ethical Unions representative in West Africa. He is actively engaged in numerous struggles including publicising the frequent acts of religionist violence against supposed witches (many of whom are children) and working to end Nigeria’s own version of the caste system.
    “No doubt religions have executed many humanitarian projects on the continent that have impacted positively on the lives of Africans. But these projects, as helpful as they may appear, are Trojan horses. They are evangelising weapons which missionaries use to get Africans to embrace Christianity. Missionary schools are religious indoctrination centres. It is true that missionary hospitals heal the sick. They also kill by denying women their rights to abortion and to reproductive health services. Missionary hospitals in Nigeria carry out forced baptism on infants and forced conversion on death beds and forced administration of sacrament to patients.”

    Many (murderous?) Catholic Aid agencies, especially those involved with AIDS, continue to suppress or deny the importance of condom use in the fight to prevent the spread of HIV.

    The problem for religionist charity and aid projects is that whatever the laudable motives of the giver, organisations with a rigid ethical code derived from scripture cannot help but view part of their job as proselytising for those values. This can result not only in unfair provision but in a distraction from the main purpose of helping those in most severe need.

    Of course accountability is not an issue unique to religious charities; it is a fundamental issue for all charities. But for the non-religious the best place to start is with an organisation which is not shackled to a list of arcane and anti-humanitarian “absolute” moral judgments, and which does not distinguish between people based on their faith, race, gender or status. The name for such a structure is “secular”.

    There are numerous non-religious / secular charities. One such is https://newhumanist.org.uk/supportus

    Here is a list of just a few specific organisations for which there seems to be particular support amongst Humanists UK membership.

    Age UK– http://www.ageuk.org.uk
    Amnesty International – http://www.amnesty.org.uk
    Kiva – http://www.kiva.org
    Oxfam UK – http://www.oxfam.org.uk
    Medecins Sans Frontieres – http://www.msf.org.uk
    National Aids Trust – http://www.nat.org.uk
    One Laptop Per Child – http://laptop.org/en/
    Plan UK – http://www.plan-uk.org
    Sparks – http://www.sparks.org.uk
    WaterAid – http://www.wateraid.org/uk
    UNICEF – http://www.unicef.org.uk
    Humanists UK has highlighted the evangelical mission of the Samaritan’s Purse shoebox appeal, a scheme widely participated in across the UK. For more information on Samaritan’s Purse, including further examples of secular charities specifically as an alternative to “Operation Christmas Child”, see our alternatives to the shameful and discriminatory Samaritan’s Purse shoebox appeal.

    see https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/

    Here is a link to a longer list of non-religious charities:
    http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Secular_charities

    You are not alone in your corrupted thinking as confirmed within the article at the end of this link:
    http://thaumaturgical.com/a-big-list-of-atheist-charities/

    The top ten most peaceful and charitable nations today are also the ten least religious nations in the history of our recently evolved species of ape.
    The decline in religion is demonstrated by the growing abundance of rotting redundant churches that litter the villages, towns and cities of the best educated and now predominantly secular nations of the developed world.

    Your ignorance appears to be only exceeded by your arrogance and egotism, Perry.

    You have earned my deep and sincere sympathy but no respect since you are too filled with indoctrination and lies to offer any respect to those who are far more peaceful, loving and charitable than you demonstrate yourself to be.

    May your delusions, self hate and hatred of humanity perish with you as the millennial generation and generation Z reject your dogma and death cults and are ready to replace those declining few who still are filled with childish superstition that causes them to be filled with hate, prejudice and discrimination and to attempt to denigrate those they don’t even know…

    https://freethoughtnaija.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/graveyard-of-the-gods.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Thanks. There are many such gems throughout this column and other columns I contribute to. Please feel free to click on any of them and copy and past their web address to pass them on.
    Remember: All humanity are non-believers in most of the many gods and goddesses invented by men…
    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • Perry Widhalm

    So long Leftist moron …..

  • Morgan Lefaye

    When I converted from Christianity to Paganism, I decided I believed in all deities. Therefore, I could face retribution from Allah if I entered an Islamic place unveiled, for instance. Luckily, that is not something I ever had to put to the test. One time I did go to an Islamic museum and was nervous the whole time because I was not veiled. That was in spite of the museum people stating I was not in trouble.

  • roberto quintas

    “Joy is observable and detectable. It can be monitored through the activity within the brain of the person experiencing joy.”
    What part about this is brain activity you don’t get? You don’t detect Joy, since this is an abstract concept attributed to the brain activity.

  • roberto quintas

    “It appears that you only recycle what religionists falsely claim about atheists. Such ignorance and calculated dishonesty is risible.”
    Well, sir, this is called logic and reason. Joy is a feeling, check the dictionary. Joy is subjective, check psychology and phylosophy. It is a claim made by atheist that only what have evidence exist, therefore, the logical conclusion is that Joy don’t exist.

  • roberto quintas

    “any “joy” the deluded religionists may feel cannot be demonstrated as being connected with anything supernatural or paranormal.”
    Any Joy that any person may feeling cannot demonstrated whatsoever. It’s delusional attribute brain activity as being connected to Joy.

  • roberto quintas

    You are denying logic and reason.

  • roberto quintas

    ” If human responses to indoctrination is an indication of truth in that which is being indoctrinated – you must claim that all the millions of gods dreamed up by men and worshipped by men down the ages “must” be real.”
    It is not the point of the question my faith, but you commit one mistake, presuming that I am Christian.

  • roberto quintas

    “Religion poisons and devalues everything – as you continually demonstrate.”
    Yes, let’s just forget that all our civilization, phylosophy, science and technology were made and developed by ancient people, ALL of them religious.

  • roberto quintas

    “I do not think there are other “ways of knowledge” than logic and Reason, and the observation of nature.”
    BertB claims. QED.

  • rationalobservations?

    Thisis the first sensible entry, so: Cut and run from further humiliation at the truth that confuses and confounds simpletons like you.

  • rationalobservations?

    More folk appear to follow the rational option of dismissing all the millions of undetected and undetectable gods and goddesses. Do you also believe in the 30,000,000 deities claimed to inhabit the “sacred” cows of India? Can you even name them?

  • rationalobservations?

    Repeating garbage and bunkum makes it no more credible.
    Get back to me if you ever have anything evidence supported and sensible to offer.

  • rationalobservations?

    Which atheists make these assertions?
    Only religionists claim to know the minds of the growing millions who no longer believe in the garbage and lies of religion and religiots.

  • rationalobservations?

    Prove your irrational and unsupported assertions.

  • rationalobservations?

    I am following evidence and applying logic and reason.
    It is you who are in denial of everything that confounds your nonsense.

  • roberto quintas

    Actually, who claims that brain activity demonstrates and detect Joy is the one who need to prove such connection.

  • roberto quintas

    Your evidence is “brain activity”. This evidence only shows that there os brain activity. “Joy” is an abstract concept attributed to brain activity. The same brain activity can be attributed (and claimed) to abstract concept such as God/Jesus/whatsoever. QED.

  • rationalobservations?

    I make no presumption of the brand of your indoctrination. The fact you are a brainwashed and indoctrinated religiot must be clear to all who laugh at your bizarre and semi-literate comments.
    I make no judgement of your religion and could hardly care less which of the frauds you have succumbed to. You have given much reason to presume you are of limited education and little intellectual capacity, however.

    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Garbage.

  • rationalobservations?

    It is you who claim that joy cannot exist and therefore you who are required to validate, justify or excuse that absurdity.

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    There is evidence of many aspects of the complex activity of the human brain.
    As you repeatedly demonstrate: there is no evidence of the existence of any of the millions of undetected and undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men that exist only in fiction but have never been detected in the real world.
    QED

  • rationalobservations?

    “I do not think there are other “ways of knowledge” than logic and Reason, and the observation of nature.”
    BertB
    No gods, goddesses, goblins, fairies, unicorns, ghouls ghosts or any other fictional entities can be observed within nature.
    Therefore there is no logical reason to believe in such hypothetical and unproven entities. QED

    (Thank you for further validating the points I raise that confound you.)

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    In the western world everyone professed to be religious as the alternative was being summarily executed or slowly tortured to death.
    Many of the greatest atheist minds in history suffered these fates.

    The ancient Egyptians invented surgery and most of the surgical instruments that are in use today in modified and improved form. Do you assert that the universe was ejaculated by their creator god after he pleasured himself and that all the pantheon of Egyptian gods exist?

    The Greeks observed the cosmology of the solar system and had quite sophisticated dentistry. Do you assert that all their gods and goddesses exist?

    The greatest minds in history have all too often been suppressed or persecuted by the totalitarian and brutal religion run states in which the served.

    Rather than make this ongoing series of ridiculous claims – why don’t you reveal the evidence of the god(s) in which you have been indoctrinated to believe?

    Obfuscation is not an answer or the rebuttal of that which so far has confused and confounded you.

    So far you have given no one any reason to consider anything you write.

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • Morgan Lefaye

    I decided it would not be nice or polite to dismiss others’ beliefs while claiming mine are true. So I decided that if my deities exist, then so do everyone else’s.

  • roberto quintas

    Logic and reason. Not Joy, happiness or any other feeling. Then you have agreed with the previous argument that an atheist shouldn’t pursue Joy. You have contradicted yorself, therefore nothing you say is reliable.

  • rationalobservations?

    What a busy life you must have researching the names of all those millions of deities and how they like to be worshipped and sacrificed to.
    How are you getting on with your personal blood sacrifices to Quetzalcoatl as just one example?

  • rationalobservations?

    Your condition of blanket ignorant denial is once again noted.

    Please present what you imagine to be the evidence of the nonexistence of joy?

    Your ignorance appears to be only exceeded by your naiveté and unwarranted egotism.

  • roberto quintas

    Making a parody:
    “Please present what you imagine to be the evidence of the nonexistence of (Gods)?
    You, sir, already lost. You are even capable to follow a single argument and shows poor textual understanding. Your stuborness only shows that an atheist isn’t too diffrerent from a Christian.

  • rationalobservations?

    You fail to dodge the question you cannot answer, Roberto.
    You claim that a god, or the gods, exist and that puts the onus on you to present the evidence that supports your claim.

    What do you imagine the evidence of the nonexistence of Santa or Fairies or your god could be?

    Of course when it comes to evidence of the nonexistence of the nonexistent it is obvious that evidence of nonexistence of the nonexistent is nonexistent because the nonexistent is nonexistent.
    The absence of evidence of the existence of gods and the fact that they are all undetected and undetectable and purely and exclusively imaginary may be a good enough reason for the fastest growing and third largest human cohort not to believe in any and all of the undetected and undetectable exclusively imaginary gods and goddesses. You have yet to reveal your excuse for believing in such ridiculous fiction?

    It is you, sir, who already lost because you never started to present any logical or evidence based argument for your wacko claims..

  • roberto quintas

    “You claim that a god, or the gods, exist and that puts the onus on you to present the evidence that supports your claim.”

    no, sir, I haven’t make any claim like that.

    “Of course when it comes to evidence of the nonexistence of the nonexistent it is obvious that evidence of nonexistence of the nonexistent is nonexistent because the nonexistent is nonexistent”.
    where is your evidence that joy exist? your evidence only shows that there is brain activity.

    “The absence of evidence of the existence of gods and the fact that they are all undetected and undetectable and purely and exclusively imaginary may be a good enough reason for the fastest growing and third largest human cohort not to believe in any and all of the undetected and undetectable exclusively imaginary gods and goddesses”.
    well, sir, the absence of existence of any feelings, since they are all abstract concepts attributed to brain activity, may be a good reason to atheist NOT pursue joy or any other feelings. your angry, agressiveness and hate are showing that you are not being rational or logical… are you really an atheist? I don’t think so, because you fail in follow one single argument and have serious problems of textual interpretation.

  • roberto quintas

    “No gods, goddesses, goblins, fairies, unicorns, ghouls ghosts or any other fictional entities can be observed within nature.”
    well, sir I will not lecture you, but the observation of nature is observe the effect of Gods, as the joy is the effect of brain activity…

  • rationalobservations?

    I am gratified that you do not believe in the existence of any of the millions of undetected and undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men, Rob.
    I find it rather sad and somewhat pathetic that you do not believe in the existence of joy and offer my sincere sympathy for the empty and joyless life you confess to enduring.

    I shall return to my joyful and entirely fulfilled life with renewed appreciation after your revelation of the sad condition of you and perhaps someother of my fellow members of our recently evolved species of ape.

    Much love to you and yours and I truly hope that you may find some peace, joy and fulfilment in that apparently meaningless and dismally unhappy life of yours.
    Best wishes and get well soon, my friend!

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Again:
    I find it rather sad and somewhat pathetic that you do not believe in the existence of joy and offer my sincere sympathy for the empty and joyless life you confess to enduring.

    I shall return to my joyful and entirely fulfilled life with renewed appreciation after your revelation of the sad condition of you and perhaps someother of my fellow members of our recently evolved species of ape.

    Much love to you and yours and I truly hope that you may find some peace, joy and fulfilment in that apparently meaningless and dismally unhappy life of yours.
    Best wishes and get well soon, my friend!

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • roberto quintas

    “I find it rather sad and somewhat pathetic that you do not believe in the existence of joy and offer my sincere sympathy for the empty and joyless life you confess to enduring.”
    sir, I haven’t say that joy don’t exist. you really have a problem of textual interpretation.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Haters gonna hate (and pretend it’s ok to abuse – sorry mate, you don’t get away with that with me)

  • rationalobservations?

    All you demonstrate is the fact that liars “gonna” lie…
    Your ignorance and dishonesty appears only exceeded by your arrogance and egotism.

    Run along and stop bothering me with your furious nonsense, boy.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your habit of obfuscation and lack of connection with the meaning of the word “truth” appears to be symptomatic of your indoctrinated and ignorant condition of denial.

    You appear to have nothing to say but just keep on saying it?

    You have exhausted my long patience with idiots and have run out of time in which to put up or shut up so now please shut up!

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    Lies from me? No, dude, that’s just your hate blinding you. Stop trolling and start living.

  • roberto quintas

    I see. You have a problem with your indocrination, you aren’t aware of that and you are suffering because of it. Sorry, sir, I can’t help you. You need a good psychological atendance.

  • rationalobservations?

    Further expressions of furious denial are superfluous, Rob.
    Please read your latest rant and take your own advice, son.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your arrogance is once again exceeded only by your ignorance, Rob.
    Take your own advice and seek professional help, son.
    (Ask your shrink about your tendancy for projection.)

  • roberto quintas

    are you talking to yourself in the front of a mirror? so far, you are the one who exorts arrogance, ignorance, hate, angry. you acuse me of indocrination and don’t realize your own indocrination as is blatantly obvious in your responses.

  • roberto quintas

    “Ask your shrink about your tendancy for projection”
    this is really funny. to you, psychology is or isn’t a science?

  • roberto quintas

    Some patterns in the comments of the user “rationalobservations” [not too much rational, but let’s move].

    he wrote: “It is you who claim that joy cannot exist and therefore you who are required to validate, justify or excuse that absurdity.”

    he wrote: “The absence of evidence of the existence of gods and the fact that they are all undetected and undetectable and purely and exclusively imaginary[…]”

    he wrote: “Joy is observable and detectable. It can be monitored through the activity within the brain of the person experiencing joy”
    in other terms what is favor to him or his presuming certainty is good, not questionable or confrontable. this is a clear indocrination. his responses only have hate, angry and agressiveness, he is not rational or logical. are he really an atheist?
    I hope I can remake my argument, since he obviusly have problem of understanding. maybe I can write more in first grade school level, his level.

  • roberto quintas

    “More folk appear to follow the rational option of dismissing all the millions of undetected and undetectable gods and goddesses.”
    oh, silly… how can you prove that the red color exist to a blind men?
    “Do you also believe in the 30,000,000 deities claimed to inhabit the “sacred” cows of India?”
    yes… all of them is called “cow”. };) your ignorance in any other religion than christianity is a pattern that I see in atheists.

  • rationalobservations?

    Haha.
    Your pathetic condition of denial fails to mask your inability to support any argument or claim through evidence.

  • rationalobservations?

    Still no answers or evidence supported claim I note.
    Your pathetic little rants must surely be an embarrassment for you?

  • rationalobservations?

    Your condition of denial is once again noted.

  • Rob don’t tolerate intolerance

    If you’re accusing me of lying, you are simply out of your head dude. Get a fkn grip and stop with the libellous nonsensical fantasy and stop the ridiculous trolling and dogma while you’re at it – we get it, it’s difficult for you when people don’t obey you and follow your exact view of the world .But sort those issues out with a professional rather than spilling them all out over the internet..

  • rationalobservations?

    Further expressions of furious denial remain superfluous, Rob.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your pathetic condition of ignorance and denial was clear from your first entry, Rob. Further demonstrations appear to be unnecessary
    .
    You claim that joy cannot exist – I point out that it can and does.

    I hope I can actually put forward a coherent and evidence supported argument, since you obviously have a problem of understanding. maybe you can write in more of a first grade school level that appears to be beyond your current level.
    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • roberto quintas

    “You claim that joy cannot exist – I point out that it can and does.”

    no, to both. I didn’t claim that joy don’t exist [please, make an effort in your reading, I know it’s hard for a first grade schooled to do so] you didn’t show that joy “exist”, your evidence only shows that there is brain activity [again, I know it’s hard for a first grade shooled to not know logic, reason and argument].

    let’s try again, in your level:

    joy exist.

    joy isn’t a privilege [anyone can have joy]

    joy is an emotion.

    joy is subjective.

    joy isn’t logical.

    joy isn’t rational.

    joy doesn’t have evidence of its existence.

    [there is a problem here, since it’s part of atheist “credo” that only what have evidence can exist]

    with those lines I can conclude: na atheist shouldn’t pursue joy, since it is not reasonable, logical, neither have evidence.

  • roberto quintas

    joy exist.

    joy isn’t a privilege [anyone can have joy]

    joy is an emotion.

    joy is subjective.

    joy isn’t logical.

    joy isn’t rational.

    joy doesn’t have evidence of its existence.

    [there is a problem here, since it’s part of atheist “credo” that only what have evidence can exist]

    with those lines I can conclude: an atheist shouldn’t pursue joy, since it is not reasonable, logical, neither have evidence.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your pathetic attempt to dismiss logic, evidence and to second guess the the thoughts of the third largest and fastest growing human cohort continue to fail and continue to make you look ever more ridiculous.

    Lets try getting down to your level:
    If you have any evidence of the existence of any of the millions of undetected and undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men – bring it on or recognise that there is none.

    http://thunk.co/img/cc0cfb12.jpg

  • Old Texan

    My only brother is so be-sotted with church and WASP agenda (philosophy?) that he just basically rejected our Mother in her old age.
    He and is wife are estranged from me completely, and one of their son’s never visits them and one only comes about twice a year. These boys spent much of their youth in church and church activities.One, I know, finally rejected the whole thing and became a much better person.
    He and his wife are the most joyless, hate-filled people I ever knew. They hate Catholics, Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, any other Christian religion and Welfare in any form .In Texas there is a government program to provide milk and basic food for infants and their Mothers. If my brother saw someone using food stamps or a WIC (Women and Infant Children) card in a grocery, he would throw his items on the floor, go into a rage and leave.
    At about 16 I joined the church and got religion. I eventually became atheist because of the behavior of fellow Christians, towards each other and outsiders, and by studying the bible and it’s history. A voracious reader, I became interested in the sociology of the Southern Pacific, (actually when I learned of the Sacred Duck, Ouaque-Ouaque). I realized that anyones gods filled the same need in them as mine did me. I learned that there was not one shred of evidence, outside christian writings of any miracle working preacher in Palestine 2,000 years ago. That is the single most historically recorded period of the Ancient World. Also that there had been about 16 or 17 crucified savior gods or god’s sons in the Middle East. An interesting aside, almost every one had a Mother, whose name was some variant of Mary or Miriam.

    Then it occurred to me that Jesus is a Greek name. No one knows what his name was. The chances of a Palestinian couple giving a kid a Greek name 2000 years ago was the same as now, that is zero chances.

    In studying the bible,I became aware of what a terribly immoral book it was. Then I came upon Luke 14:26. Luke 14:26 is not preached about. Jesus says for anyone to be a follower of him, one had to hate their Mother, Father and whole family. I looked it up in the Greek. The so-called King James Version of that bible is an exact translation of the Greek.
    My transition was now complete. It cost me my brother and his family, many friends, and my marriage. But the cost was worth it. I have been free for over 50 years. It still costs me friends. When they find out I’m atheist, I am suddenly not a friend. The really funny part about the whole thing, that I had two work friends who were Holiness, Church of God, shouting, swaying, speaking in tongues, going into trances Christians who never changed towards me. They remained friends for many years, until their deaths. They were the happiest Christians I have ever met. Non-judgemental and didn’t hate anyone. I capitalized the christian and church here out of r respect for them.
    I will leave on the hilarious note that the King James of the holy bible fame, was the homosexual sex slave of the Duke of Buckingham, who gave the King a nice palace because the King was such a good ……………I better leave it at that, this may be a family blog.

  • SpokenMind

    In case you are interested, here is an article by Dr. Rober Spitzer:

    https://www.magiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Science_and_the_Shroud_of_Turin.pdf

    Pleasure talking with you. All the best in your future endeavors.

  • rationalobservations?

    A propaganda piece from a Roman Catholic lie factory hardly adds to the anything other than verifying the medieval origin of the “Turin shroud”.
    The most telling and honest line within the propaganda you link to is:
    “The cloth has a certifiable history from 1349 when it surfaced in Lirey, France..”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turin-shroud-latest-fake-forgery-scientific-blood-pattern-spatter-study-carbon-dating-debunked-a8450101.html

    https://www.livescience.com/63093-shroud-of-turin-is-fake-bloodstains.html

    https://phys.org/news/2018-07-shroud-turin-fake-retracted.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2157217/The-Turin-Shroud-fake-Eminent-historian-claims-40-similar-cloths-originated-1-300-years-AFTER-crucifixion.html

    Enter “fake Turin shroud” for many more articles and links to forensic studies that confirm the fakery.

  • rationalobservations?

    As an atheist I find some ironic joy in the ridiculous and risible garbage of religionists who start by stating “Joy exists” and ends with the lie <em… it's part of atheist "credo" that only what have evidence can exist…".

    Please keep up the dishonest garbage and debunked bunkum Roberto. It draws attention to the fact that only the ignorant and the gullible believe in the myths, legends and lies of religion.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • (((GC)))

    To deal with rush hour, I’ll take a flying car. (This IS the 21st century; we were promised them!)

  • roberto quintas

    and here we have the proof that an atheist don’t follow logic or reason, neither is able to a debate in intellectual level.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your condition of vacuous denial is once again noted.

    Thanks for making me laugh, though.

    Christians are often baffled as to how atheists could deny the existence of their originally Canaanite god, “Yahweh” and Roman god-man “Jesus”, but they really shouldn’t be. Christians deny thousands of the very same undetectable and undetected gods, goddesses and god-men that atheists deny. Atheists just deny one more god than Christians do (or three gods, maybe?).

    It’s not that we are “anti” any of the many millions of gods and goddesses that have been invented by men down the ages. We simply do not believe in any of them. I wonder if you or any other apparent religionists are “anti” Zeus, Odin, Apollo, Quetzalcoatl, Pratibhanapratisamvit, (Buddhist goddess of context analysis), Acat, (Mayan god of tattoo artists). Or Tsa’qamae, north american god of salmon migration, or any of the millions of other imaginary deities among which yours appear nothing special and about which there is nothing unique or original?

    Atheists and religionists are not so different, after all! Let us celebrate our vast agreement on the non-existence of millions of undetected and undetectable gods and other hypothetical and imaginary beings!

    Why don’t you take your own advice and ignore all forms of misinformation and indoctrination and THINK and do some independent research for yourself?
    https://78.media.tumblr.com/90655fad1a9c00f1351376446a77439e/tumblr_oncyk1qIlf1v5pvz5o1_1280.jpg
    https://sacerdotus.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/harris-impotent-evil-or-imaginary-600×435.jpg?w=1400
    https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-08/11/4/enhanced/webdr07/original-30282-1439282033-3.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto

  • roberto quintas

    Great… Where is your proof that Joy exists? When (If) you want to try seriously talk, let’s try: what “existence” is?

  • rationalobservations?

    If joy does not in fact exist. why do I find it so joyful to be alive and to be constantly confounding moronic and delusional religionists?

    Where is your proof that gods, goddesses and god-men exist? That is the key question you always fail to answer through evidence.

    https://78.media.tumblr.com/90655fad1a9c00f1351376446a77439e/tumblr_oncyk1qIlf1v5pvz5o1_1280.jpg
    https://godless.no/wp-content/uploads/Atheist.jpg

  • rationalobservations?
  • roberto quintas

    Again, you confess your lack of logic and reason. Well, at least you can read this: https://www.paulopes.com.br/2018/11/comte-sponville.html?m=1#.XAWmD01v80M

  • roberto quintas

    You argument: “I feel Joy, therefore It exists” isn’t different of the argument of the “awful religionists”…

  • roberto quintas

    “Oh, look mom, how smart I am arguing with a meme”.

  • roberto quintas

    Sir, If you don’t pretend that There Is no Gods your rant againt the “awful religionists” is pointless. Your insignifcancy is awesome.

  • roberto quintas

    Sir, you constantly claim that “there is no evidence of existência of Gods”. This is you claim that you know “there is no God”. Try to make sense, try not contradicting yourself.

  • rationalobservations?

    I make a subjective statement that I experience joy and observe that others also report they experience joy.

    I also observe that brain scans can detect and observe the effects of joy within the human brain and the alteration in the chemical balance of the blood is scientific evidence of the chemistry of joy.

    Dopamine, Serotonin, Oxytocin, and Endorphins are the quartet responsible for your joy/happiness. Many situations can trigger these neurotransmitters.

    If you do not personally believe in joy you have my sympathy for your sad, ignorant and joyless life. You earn no respect for your willful ignorance, arrogance and egotism however.
    Seek professional help and counseling and endeavor to cure your ignorance through evidence supported education.

    https://i0.wp.com/akosbalogh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14444761_1426658324028442_7289900052337451843_o.png

  • rationalobservations?

    If you do not personally believe in joy you have my sympathy for your sad, ignorant and joyless life. You earn no respect for your willful ignorance, arrogance and egotism however.
    Seek professional help and counseling and endeavor to cure your ignorance through evidence supported education.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • rationalobservations?

    Thanks for the link to a fellow atheist’s observations that closely resemble my own.
    There are millions of undetectable and undetected gods, goddesses and god-men in myths and legends but never in the here and now real world. Whole generations and whole populations believed fervently in pantheons of deities that are all but forgotten today.Their devotion to their gods was equal to and often in excess of the declining cohort of religionists who still believe in ancient superstitions and undetectable deities.

    I know of no one who says “there is no god”. Most folk recognise there is no evidence of any of the millions of gods and goddesses.
    https://godless.no/wp-content/uploads/Atheist.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    I offer you only the absolute fact that no evidence of the existence of any opf the millions of gods, goddesses and god-men exists. Nothing more.
    To confound this observation – all you need to do is present evidence of the existence of a god or the gods that could not be evidence of anything else that is entirely natural with natural explanations.

    https://78.media.tumblr.com/90655fad1a9c00f1351376446a77439e/tumblr_oncyk1qIlf1v5pvz5o1_1280.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Your inability to present an evidence supported argument in favour if your fantasies is once again noted but it is superfluous to the evidence of that inability demonstrated within each of your furious and puerile entries.
    Your impotence is self evident.

  • rationalobservations?

    Nothing smart within any of your entries so far, son.
    Obter uma vida e obter alguma educação. Você é um constrangimento para si mesmo e para todos os que lêem o seu lixo.

    https://78.media.tumblr.com/90655fad1a9c00f1351376446a77439e/tumblr_oncyk1qIlf1v5pvz5o1_1280.jpg

  • roberto quintas

    “I make a subjective statement…” – therefore not logical either rational.

    “Many situations can trigger these neurotransmitters.” – many situations, icnluding the experience of meeting Gods.
    you are really funny. you must be a shame to atheist community.

  • roberto quintas

    “If you do not personally believe in joy…” – therefore IS a belief, not a scientific statement, neither have evidence of existence. you still ignore all my previous argument and still goes with the same rethoric [not logical/rational] with you only show your hate.

  • roberto quintas

    then you agree with this: “If someone says to you, “I know that God does not exist,” he is not substantially an atheist; is, above all, an imbecile. The truth is that you do not know.” I rest my case. You lost all the credibility you think you have.

  • roberto quintas

    sir, if you accept a second hand evidence as evidence of existence [brain scan, body reaction], then all our culture [including science and thecnology – developed by those perky ancient people, all of them religious] is an evidence of existence of Gods.

  • roberto quintas

    great… where is your evidence that joy exists?

  • roberto quintas

    sir, you are the only one who is embarassing yourself. you aren’t even able to understand what I write, so you are the one who needs education. start to try to make sense and not contradicting yourself.

  • rationalobservations?

    You missed the scientific evidence my deluded and egotistical friend.
    Try again?

  • rationalobservations?

    Hahahahaha.
    Your ignorance based delusions are only exceeded by your egotism.
    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

  • rationalobservations?

    Meaningless word salad once again.
    You should try to offer some logic and evidence based entry for once..

  • rationalobservations?

    I observe that brain scans can detect and observe the effects of joy within the human brain and the alteration in the chemical balance of the blood is scientific evidence of the chemistry of joy.

    Dopamine, Serotonin, Oxytocin, and Endorphins are the quartet responsible for your joy/happiness. Many situations can trigger these neurotransmitters.

    If you do not personally believe in joy you have my sympathy for your sad, ignorant and joyless life. You earn no respect for your willful ignorance, arrogance and egotism however.
    Seek professional help and counseling and endeavor to cure your ignorance through evidence supported education.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l4PzhcYQrE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZF2z7qKgME
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-79WwFMiO0

  • rationalobservations?

    Oh! The pathetic irony of your garbage…

  • roberto quintas

    your “evidence” only shows brain activity and body response. try again?

  • roberto quintas

    so, you are simlply ignoring what that philosopher said and pretend that have nothing with you?

  • roberto quintas

    you haven’t show any logical or rational response. your evidence is second hand evidence. why should I make what you don’t do?

  • roberto quintas

    “I observe that brain scans can detect and observe the effects of joy within the human brain and the alteration in the chemical balance of the blood is scientific evidence of the chemistry of joy.”

    therefore you have the evidence of brain activity and body response.

    “Dopamine, Serotonin, Oxytocin, and Endorphins are the quartet responsible for your joy/happiness. Many situations can trigger these neurotransmitters.”
    that include the expericence with Gods.

  • roberto quintas

    paraphrasing: “If you do not personally believe in [Gods] you have my sympathy for your sad, ignorant and [Godless] life. You earn no respect for your willful ignorance, arrogance and egotism however.”

  • roberto quintas

    oh, the patetic response of a person unable of rational or logical thinking.

  • roberto quintas

    sir, if you accept a second hand evidence as evidence of existence [brain scan, body reaction], then all our culture [including science and thecnology – developed by those perky ancient people, all of them religious] is an evidence of existence of Gods.

  • rationalobservations?

    “Only”..?
    Let that go however and “only” reveal two items of science based evidence of the existence of gods, goddesses and god-men.

  • rationalobservations?

    The personal and unsupported opinion of a “philosopher” (or anyone else) is not evidence. You have yet to offer any actual tangible historical or science based evidence.

  • roberto quintas

    well, sir, your pattern of what is a “science based evidence” is not the same of mine. to me, culture, history, art, language [social science] are evidence.

  • roberto quintas

    paraphrasing: “The personal and unsupported opinion of an “atheist” (or anyone else) is not evidence.

  • roberto quintas

    “You have yet to offer any actual tangible historical … evidence”. well, sir, you can take all the human history. that’s a lot of historical evidence.

  • rationalobservations?

    Thank you for confirming the fact.
    The unqualified and unsupported opinion of anyone (as I said) is not evidence. That’s why I offer evidence and ask for evidence and point out the fact that there is NO EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men.

    So yet again: What do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

  • rationalobservations?

    The whole of human history is somewhat lacking in evidence – but there is no evidence at all of the existence of any of the millions of undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men.

    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

    You appear to confirm that you are 99% atheist yourself?

    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Hahahaha.
    As they say: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”.
    I accept your flattery but continue to observe your utter, total and complete absence of a single item of evidence in favour of the existence of any of the undetected gods, goddesses and god-men.

    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

    You appear to confirm that you are 99% atheist yourself?

    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • rationalobservations?

    Your total ignorance of logic is as embarrassing as the humiliation you continue to subject yourself to with the garbage you recycle.

    Now what do you have in the way of actual tangible EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

  • rationalobservations?

    Repeating garbage fails to make that garbage less ridiculous.

    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

    You appear to confirm that you are 99% atheist yourself?

  • rationalobservations?

    Oh, the irony and hilarious effect of the nonsense you recycle.

    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

    You appear to confirm that you are 99% atheist yourself?
    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg

  • Joe

    Experiencing joy is all the proof I need to say it exists.

  • roberto quintas

    Hello Joe. That what I am trying to explain to this moron. Joy exists, we fell it and there is no need evidence to prove it exists. There a re a lot ot “things” that exist without evidence. He say that brain scan and body response is evidence of existence of joy. What this stupid don’t understand is that this “evidence” is second hand, it shows brain activity and body response. If we accept second hand evidence as proof of existence, than all our culture is evidence of existence of Gods. I have experience with Gods and this is all the proof I need. Unfurtunately he is so full of hate that none argument that I offer will be enough. His stuborness is very close to the christians.

  • roberto quintas

    sir, do you know the difference between “believe in” and “existence of”? I bet no, since you aren’t able to sound logical or rational. You haven’t make a single sustaining of your claims, all you have written was just about how much is your hate.

  • rationalobservations?

    Oh, the irony of the nonsense you recycle.

    Do I know the difference between “believe in” and “existence of”?
    Yes, of course I do. Why are you having so much difficulty differentiating between them?

    As for logic and rationality? You have yet to demonstrate any understanding of either and have yet to express either.

    I have made NO CLAIMS.
    I merely point out the absolute and total absence of any evidence that supports any of the claims of the existence of gods, goddesses and god-man.
    No one (NO ONE!) has ever offered any tangible and authentic evidence – including you and those who’s opinions you recycle but cannot validate, justify or excuse.

    I hate no one. I only hate lies.

    Now what do you have in the way of EVIDENCE of the existence of any of the millions of undetected gods, goddesses and god-men?

    Please don’t bother to humiliate yourself even further until you can offer a logical, rational and most of all EVIDENCE SUPPORTED answer to that last (and oft repeated – but never answered) question.

  • roberto quintas

    “I have made NO CLAIMS”.
    you said that joy exist but still don’t give what you order: a single evidence. you also claim that, since “there is no evidence of existence of Gods”, but you confortably accept a second hand evidence [brain scan, body response] as good enough to prove the existence of joy.
    we both now that joy exist and it doesn’t need an evidence to prove it exists. Thousand of human beings can testimony about joy. it does have the same body reaction and feeling through the ages.
    what I expect is that you realize that the Gods don’t need a “science based evidence” to exist, as joy. there are many things that exist without evidence. art, music, literature, movies, poetry, feelings.
    It does not matter if I don’t believe in Christian God, He exist. it doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in any Gods, they exist. the single observation of nature [and the natural explanation] is an observation of the manifestation [the picture, the image] of the presence of Gods, just as the brain scan and body response are the manifestation [the picture, the image] of the presence of joy. thank you for playing. better luck next time.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your garbled and evidence devoid garbage has become boring for some time.
    You have demonstrated that you have no evidence of “Jesus” or any of the millions of undetected and undetectable gods, goddesses and god-men of religious fiction.
    Repetition of your garbage fails to render it less nonsensical and meaningless.
    I can’t be bothered to read anything from you that fails to be prefixed by: “Here is the evidence….” but does not lie in that regard and go on to offer only denial, opinion, red herrings and propaganda.

  • rationalobservations?

    Your personal and unsupported opinion, and culture, history, art, language [social science] are NOT evidence.

    Thank you for demonstrating that there is no evidence.

  • rationalobservations?

    Hahahahahaha.
    Oh! The irony and naivete…

  • roberto quintas

    let’s remind this from you: “You have yet to offer any actual tangible historical or science based evidence”. then now you follow with that: “culture, history, art, language [social science] are NOT evidence.” here is the thing. it is not about science based evidence, but what YOU accept as evidence [and you fail in offer any evidence of existence of joy, that exits without the need of evidence]. Again, it simple your stubborness and circular thinking [reproducing the same pointless argument]. Again, all you proven is your lack of logical, rational or scientific argument. therefore, you aren’t capable or competent. therefore you lack the basis of what makes a person an atheist. you can give back your membership of the atheist community. thank you for playing. better luck next time.

  • rationalobservations?

    Now you confirm that you are a joker or a troll, Robbie. Surely no one could be that ignorant and arrogant!

    Still, you are keeping me laughing and no doubt anyone still following this thread will be enjoying your ongoing stupidity and humiliation.
    Thank you for continually demonstrating that there is no evidence of any of the millions of undetected and undetectable, imaginary gods, goddesses and god-men of myth, legend, lies and fiction.

    There is nothing authentic, unique or original within the 4th century Roman “Jesus” cult religion and not one single item of evidence of the existence of “Jesus” from within the 1st century and no historical evidence of any of the events written in legends of “Jesus” for the first time several centuries after the time in which those legends are merely set.

    The 4th century founded Roman religion they called “christianity” was cobbled together from mostly pagan components and exclusively pagan feast days and festivals. Why not elves?
    The midwinter Yule festival provided the log and decorated tree and the midwinter festival of Saturnalia was a time of festive banqueting, gift giving, home decorating and much else that was stolen and watered down by the christians.

    Even the “City of Nazareth” is an invention of the late 3rd or early 4th century. The time when the Roman religion they called “christianity” was first cobbled together from mostly “pagan” components, imagery and mythologies and exclusively pagan feast days and festivals.
    It’s also worth noting that the oldest/first prototype bibles were cobbled together in the late 4th century and they differ from each other and are almost entirely different from later versions and those we know today.
    Even the only two versions of the “Nativity” within modern versions of bibles contradict each other.

    Christians are often baffled as to how atheists could deny the existence of their originally Canaanite god, “Yahweh” and Roman god-man “Jesus”, but they really shouldn’t be. Christians deny thousands of the very same undetectable and undetected gods, goddesses and god-men that atheists deny. Atheists just deny one more god than Christians do (or three gods, maybe?).

    It’s not that we are “anti” any of the many millions of gods and goddesses that have been invented by men down the ages. We simply do not believe in any and all of them. I wonder if any unreconstructed religionists are “anti” Zeus, Odin, Apollo, Quetzalcoatl, Pratibhanapratisamvit, (Buddhist goddess of context analysis), Acat, (Mayan god of tattoo artists). Or Tsa’qamae, north american god of salmon migration, or any of the millions of other imaginary deities among which the Judaeo/christian gods appear nothing special and about which there is nothing unique or original?

    Atheists and religionists are not so different, after all! Let us celebrate our vast agreement on the non-existence of millions of undetected and undetectable gods and other hypothetical and imaginary beings!

    Seasons greetings and remember to keep the Saturn in Saturnalia!

    https://i.imgur.com/rREtEph.jpg

  • rationalobservations?
  • roberto quintas

    no sir, you are the ignorant here. you don’t even read what I write. again, shove in your nose your prejudice and bigotry. I am not a christian.

  • rationalobservations?

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
    You, “sir” are a delusional and egotistical, evidence and logic devoid fantasist.
    Thank you for keeping e entertained with your delusional garbage.
    Keep it up!

  • Raging Bee

    Your sentence structure is as incoherent as your thinking.

  • Raging Bee

    If we accept second hand evidence as proof of existence, than all our culture is evidence of existence of Gods.

    No, it’s not, because gods are alleged to be separate entities existing outside of our imaginations.

  • roberto quintas

    Alleged. Gods are inmanents.

  • roberto quintas

    Maybe you need to improve your textual interpretation skills.