What Would You Do If Christianity Were Proven True?

What Would You Do If Christianity Were Proven True? August 27, 2019

So, I was asked in an email the other day what I would do if Christianity were proven to be factual and true and there was no denying Jesus is the son of God any longer. While I clawed my way through the rest of the email, dotted with familiar phrases like “typical atheist” and “denying the evidence all around you” and accusations of being under the control of Beelzebub himself, I had a bit of a giggle fit. I mean really, what would that mean if Christianity were true?

If Christianity were true, and the Bible was 100% non-fiction, we’d all be the products of an incestuous line of ancestors. We’d make Deliverance look like a heartwarming coming-of-age story. Romance novels would have taglines like “No one could tame the heat of Grandma’s desire. No one but Uncle Jim.”. Thanksgiving would be considered a group date. Baptism would be a touch more difficult what with everyone growing arms out of their foreheads and you’d get two Jesus wafers at Communion, one for each of your cannibalistic mouths.

We would have to reassess the meanings of words like “omniscient”, “omnipotent” and “benevolent” because they clearly do not mean what we thought they meant. Heck, we would have to reassess everything we thought we knew, what with that trickster god, Satan, running around burying dinosaur bones and trying to draw us all into butt sex and Harry Potter.

We’d also know, beyond any doubt, that free will isn’t a thing at all since we really don’t have much of a choice between worshipping or eternal torture. That’s like going to a buffet stocked with endless bowls of donkey dung and one bowl of overcooked, underseasoned corn niblets and saying, “Look at all the choices!”.

We’d suddenly be living in a world where resurrection is possible, where three days is considered a “sacrifice” and where all our sins have been forgiven, except that they haven’t so, repent you filthy meat sacks! Will you learn the donkey language? Or snake? Will your next Airbnb be in the belly of a whale?

All that aside, though, if Christianity were proven true and no one could deny its factuality, would I worship god? Would I grovel at his feet and beg his forgiveness for this blog, all the pre-marital pole-smoking and my inability to stop blaspheming? Would I stop writing and tweeting as Godless Mom and drag my kids to church? Would I suddenly shun my gay friends and family, speak out against going to palm prom or get baptised by a man in a silly hat?

Nah. I wouldn’t do any of that BS. Mostly because I am a decent human being.

I wouldn’t – no – couldn’t worship a god who wants us to believe he’s merciful but who also demands we love him and if we don’t he’ll throw us in the fire, forever.

I couldn’t worship a god who chose to sacrifice the life of his son to create some cosmic loophole through which our loathsome little sinning selves could be forgiven. Especially when given he’s omnipotent, he could have just forgiven us without all the pageantry.

I couldn’t worship a god who swears he is perfect, but somehow it’s our fault that he messed us up and made us flawed.

Jesus dog butt

I definitely could not worship any sort of deity who, for a good 2000 years, only appeared on toast, grilled cheese sandwiches and the curly fur swirls around a dog’s buttshole.

I couldn’t worship a god who, with his omnipotence, could do something about all the suffering in the world, which he clearly knows about being as he’s omniscient, but chooses not to. I couldn’t worship a god who claims he does nothing about the suffering our world is plagued with because he wants to protect our free will when we clearly already know we have none – worship or burn is not free will. Choices made under such duress are not actually choices.

I couldn’t worship a god who watches us while we’re doing the forbidden polka, the two-fingered tango or polishing the trombone to ensure we’re doing it just the way he wants and if we’re not, we burn. I couldn’t worship a god who gave any sort of a heck which holes are invaded by the old General and his two Colonels or how many uteri are in the room when a woman writhes with the ecstasy of orgasm.

Finally, I couldn’t worship a god who doesn’t even allow for an escape from his immoral tyranny; his Hitchensian celestial dictatorship, because even doing yourself in will send you straight to the flames of hell.

So, what would I do if I found out Christianity was true? Well, I’d just have to yell louder, fight harder and blog more right here on Godless Mom. I’m sorry to say, believers, but it’d just add fuel to my fire.

What would you do if Christianity were proven true? Let me know in the comments!

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • koseighty

    (Read in your best trailer trash drawl.)

    “ I love you, baby. Don’t make me smite you again. ”

  • Freodin

    I would say that the Christian’s question is too simplistic… but so is your reaction.

    Just what would be “proven”? I’d say that if “Christianity” was proven, this would also mean that each and every of Christianity’s claims would be proven… among them that the Christian God is good and loving and always right and all that stuff. I might still not understand it, disagree with it or even hate it. But it would be “proven”… and thus my objections would be wrong and “sinful”. I would be a bad person for holding them… and the only question left would be if I wanted to be a bad person or not.

    I know that this is difficult to fathom. It might go against the very core of your being, the very morals of your existence. Your conscience, your convictions would raise up against it. But there would be proof… and you would be wrong.

    I once had a discussion about a similar question, and ran into a similar problem. It was about absolute morals and conscience, and my question was “Would the Holocaust be justified, if the Nazis had been right.”
    People could not understand that. They tried to get back to “so you say if the Nazis had won, the Holocaust would have been moral?”
    They couldn’t understand the difference. No, I asked: “if the Nazis had been right. If Jews really were not quite human, vermin, bound to destory to cultures they infected.”
    They could not understand. They called me an anti-semite or a Nazi. They argued that “but it isn’t that way.”
    They could not understand. They could not bend their mind around the hypothetical that would contradict their core-values.

    It is very similar here.
    If Christianity was proven correct in every aspect, I would become a Christian. It might be difficult for me, but I don’t want to be a bad person.

    There is just one obstacle. The reason for my atheism – the cause for my atheism.
    Christianity isn’t proven correct. It never has. Every attempt ever made has pathetically failed.

    Go ahead, dear Christian e-mail writer, and prove it… then we can talk.

    Until then… I’ll remain an atheist AND a good person.

  • Astreja

    My conscience demands that I would stay the course, refusing to accept the alleged sacrifice of Jesus because I consider it craven to let someone die in my place.

  • Brian Gregory Lopez

    Quoting Atmosphere (one of my favorite hip hop groups): “In the afterlife I hope the AC works.”

  • Well, besides being really worried also for what it entails in what refers to the afterlife, science and especially the Universe, I’d be curious to know what of the too many to count denominations was the true one. If it was one of those that cleans you once you accept Jesus, blah, blah, I’d probably recant just in my deathbed.

  • johnsoncatman

    Well . . . of course the TRUE one is the one that the email author belongs to. How could it be any other way? (/s)

  • Cozmo the Magician

    I’d buy a gun and use it on Jesus and say COME AGAIN F^KWAD make my day.

  • Yeah, this kind of gotcha question would apply to the asker as well. What would they do if they found out the Coptic Church was the right Christianity, not their Pre-millennial Rapture babble?

  • Michael Neville

    I’ve made a similar argument about the Holocaust. When someone claims there must be an objective morality I say that the SS felt that they were morally justified in brutally killing various untermenschen. I’ve got the same reactions that you have. Some people are responding to the arguments that they think we’re making rather than carefully reading or listening to what we actually say.

  • Sassafras

    If Christianity was “proven” to be true, I’d go hang out with Satan.

  • igotbanned999

    Of course the unstated question is ‘which version of Christianity’?

  • johnsoncatman

    That should actually be the first response.

  • Clancy

    Looking at it the other way, last year a discussion was started on Patheos, asking, in part, this question, “What would it take to convince you, as a Christian, that your faith was not true?”

    There are over 2000 comments.
    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/channel-religion/christians_what_would_make_you_lose_your_religious_beliefs/

  • Erp

    As in the joke: a cardinal rushes up to the Pope and says, “I have some good news and some bad news”, The Pope says, “and the good is?”. The cardinal replies, “Jesus has returned”. The Pope beams and says “How can there now be bad news?”. The cardinal answers “He is in Salt Lake City”.

  • Chris Hogue

    I’d be perplexed by how gawd made the world look round when his buy bull clearly describes it to be flat.

  • Kendall Fields

    Lady you aren’t good at theology nor any good at describing God. At the end of the day, God is good all the time.If you think you can do a better job than God, then go right ahead and see if you can control the world and fix it how you want. Oh wait you can’t. Also the warning about Hell is not a duress choice but a warning. Also you can’t blame God for the sins you do. You aren’t a “decent” human being. You are a human and like me and everyone else we are all sinners and are liable to face God’s judgment for our sins. But that is why Jesus gave up his life to give salvation to those who believe. And as a little forbearance don’t say you’ll want more flames added to your fire because like everyone who denies God you’ll be talking big but once you enter hell you’ll be asking in a heartbeat to be let out.

  • The Salvation War series. ‘Nuff said.

  • I will pray the quantum fluctuation thought to have given birth to our Universe for you.

    Be careful what you wish for, knowing for all we know you may be following the wrong version of Christianism and worshipping Satan instead. Or alternatively you may have a place in the Wall of the Faithless waiting for you.

  • blogcom

    The question for you seems not to be a feasible one, certainly unworthy of consideration if your stereotypical response is any indication.
    I expected more, I don’t know, serious consideration or at least something original, other than the normal atheist blah.
    What I didn’t expect is something so blatantly arrogant and dismissive.

  • blogcom

    You might view yourself as more moral than God but it’s not the mark of a good person but one that revels in their imagined superiority.

  • I will pray Lurue, the Unicorn, for you.

  • blogcom

    Your point?

  • Besides that, you could have come with a better post that talking about skeptics being basically superior to others, etc. when your kind is so used to that.

    You guys are also as predictable as usual.

  • blogcom

    Nah, reveling in their imagined moral superiority is what atheists do, it’s telling any mention of set moral laws set their teeth on edge and bring out their worst qualities.

  • Kendall Fields

    And you are still lying about praying to a concept created by God. I am sure God is guiding me on the right path. I still can’t believe how you still deny God despite him being real. You are only saved if you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

  • Nah, reveling in their imagined moral superiority is what Fundamentalists do, it’s telling any mention of moral laws claimed by them to have been set up set their teeth on edge and bring out their worst qualities.

    FTFY.

  • Are you real or just a bot programmed by Fundies attempting to pass the Turing test?. I’m more for the latter.

  • blogcom

    When you have to copy,paste and superimpose words you are out of ideas.

  • Kendall Fields

    Are you a human blindly trying to insult me or a robot with no understanding of life?

  • The feeling is mutual.

  • blogcom

    P.S. you don’t have set moral laws, you make up as you go along.

  • Yes, you’re a robot.

  • Kendall Fields

    So you say.

  • Or maybe, just maybe, have an evolutionary origin because for a social species is better to have a morality, as it thrives.

  • blogcom

    Your feelings have no bearing on fact when the fact of the matter is you are wrong.

  • blogcom

    Yeah sure, so everything is in a state of flux?
    If thriving means populist it is meaningless.

  • I think the same of you.

  • Raging Bee

    …says the guy who believes in an imagined god…

    Seriously, boy, GM’s moral superiority to the God of the Bible isn’t imagined — it’s real, and clearly indicated by the Bible itself.

  • Perhaps also some do not need a boss whose existence is more than questionable to know what’s right and what’s wrong, nor threats about what will happen aftef we die if we do.not follow those who claim to be middlemen of said entity.

    Nor to spam sites where we’re unwelcome and doing it with contempt and prepotence.

  • Raging Bee

    Have you ever actually MET GM? If not, then you’re not in any position to say she’s “not a ‘decent’ human being.” Your uninformed self-righteous hatefulness is noted, and dismissed for lack of credibility.

  • Raging Bee

    I am sure God is guiding me on the right path.

    Your pig-ignorant rantings on this blog indicate otherwise.

  • Kendall Fields

    I don’t see any decency coming from her words only arrogance and hatred of God. You come up with better ways to insult me because you aren’t going very far with them.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah if anyone is being ignorant it would be you.

  • Raging Bee

    That only shows you’re using the wrong standards for judging her decency. My judgment of your credibility still stands.

  • Raging Bee

    Show exactly where I’m wrong.

  • Kendall Fields

    Right. And your statement shows why judgment means little to me.

  • Raging Bee

    Where has he pasted those words from?

  • Kendall Fields

    You have already shown it when you called me “pig-ignorant” and said I could not judge her decency based on her words yet you judge me based on what I said.

  • Raging Bee

    That doesn’t show I’m wrong.

  • LetUsSee

    You know it would be a great article if you went and got an exorcism done, then wrote about what exactly happened. C:

  • Raging Bee

    I had a friend who was beaten to death by an “exorcist.” What more does anyone need to know about that long-running scam?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Doesn’t matter until you can demonstrate your ‘god’ is more than a shared memetic delusion that can only infect those lacking skeptical facility.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    P.S. you don’t have set moral laws, you make up as you go along.

    Hint: So do you….

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    That’s an *assertion*…it’s time for EVIDENCE if you want to convince anybody not already suffering from your shared delusion.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Isaiah 45:7 disagrees with the delusion you carry in your head:

    “7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    King James Version (KJV)”

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I see hilarious faux-trage and whining from YOUR KIND about us making fun of your demands we treat your delusion as verifiable consensus reality.

  • Raging Bee

    Actually, yes, our moral laws are “set” by the verifiable consequences of our actions: acts that have verifiable benefit are good, acts that do verifiable harm are bad. That’s not something we “make up.” The consistent failure (or outright refusal) of so many Christians to grasp this obvious and basic fact, only proves their own moral bankruptcy.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower
  • Kendall Fields

    It does by a long shot.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You *still* lose.

    DEMONSTRATE this ‘god’ of yours, or we’re going to rightfully continue to laugh at your outraged naivete.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You can’t do better than THAT?!

    Narrator: Kendie-poo *can’t* do better than that.

  • I don’t believe any of that and my name is Courtney, not lady. Have you thought about being polite or is that bit not covered in your Bible?

  • Yeah, that was my initial response to the email.

  • Tiny but fierce

    I’ve been asked that question before. My consistent reply has been that I would immediately become a Satanist. If the Bible were proven to be the true description of God, I would come to the conclusion that he’s the evil one. Satan gave us the knowledge of good and evil, over God’s objections. God gave us suffering and torture “for our own good.” In the Bible, God killed millions because they made him mad. Satan killed, what 10 and those were all at God’s instigation.

  • Raging Bee

    Wow, GM, you really got the Christians triggered with this one. I wonder what put them into such full freakout mode.

    Have you ever heard some Christian say things like “What if the existence of God WAS proven? Would you be able to handle it?” Your speculation here, and the trolls’ reaction to it, kind of implies it’s the Christians, not the skeptics or atheists, who’d have the most trouble with actual proof of their God’s existence. (And of course, a LOT would depend on which interpretation of Christianity is proven true — it would be both terrifying and hilarious to watch all those bigots choosing sides in the bloody global sectarian strife that would surely ensue.)

  • Mmmhmmm. Yep.

  • lol! Exactly!

  • I agree that would be a great article, but I’d rather pound out schnitzel with my face.

  • Yes, he’s the good guy.

  • Raging Bee

    I have a factual basis for calling you ignorant — your words. You have no factual basis to judge the author’s character. So no, you still have to try harder.

  • Raging Bee

    Especially as played by Al Pacino.

  • Raging Bee

    What if that’s part of the exorcism rite?

  • Kendall Fields

    I didn’t think you actually read the Bible. Must be your hypocrisy showing.

  • Tiny but fierce

    I think the gentleman that stars in the series Lucifer, myself. Yummy man…

  • Yes, I woke up to so many comments. Gonna be here a while!

  • Kendall Fields

    Right. And again that is why your judgment means little. So you need to try harder.

  • Tiny but fierce

    This. A thousand times, this.

  • Kendall Fields

    So you say.

  • Raging Bee

    SURPRISE!!! Yes, atheists HAVE read the Bible — sometimes more extensively and honestly than many of you loudmouthed Christians!

    (Of course, if you really find that surprising, that just shows you haven’t been paying attention — this has been well-known for DECADES.)

  • Tiny but fierce

    I’d rather be tortured for eternity than worship the God described in the Bible.

  • All you’re accomplishing here, Kendall, is proving that believers don’t have superior morality through your demonstrated behaviour. I hope whatever has you so angry today subsides and that your day gets better. Much love to you ❤️

  • Then I guess we’re having schnitzel for dinner!

  • Raging Bee

    And if you worship the wrong version of God, you’ll just end up doing both!

  • Tiny but fierce

    Exactly!

  • Kendall Fields

    Christians aren’t “triggered” by what lies she speaks but we want to tell the truth because like it or not, little Courtney here is lacking knowledge on God and his righteousness.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    *Vegan* Satan, who eats seitan for protein (is that cannibalism?)

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Nonsense.

    The fact that you’re *here*, rather than off being a happy xtian, speaks VOLUMES that you’d rather not disclose…

  • Kendall Fields

    Really? Because from where I have been standing over the last couple of years all you Atheists do is look at single verses without understanding what they mean. You guys only look at the Bible to find “proof” for your cause without understanding how stupid you guys make yourselves look.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Typical of YOUR KIND.

    Refuse to be polite, refuse to admit when you and your ‘bible’ are wrong, and Attack, Attack, Attack.

    Do you have ANY idea how worthless you are, xtian propaganda aside?

  • Raging Bee

    “Lacking knowledge?” Please. You’ve said nothing to add to anyone’s knowledge. We’ve all heard your schtick before, and we know it’s 69crap. Say something we haven’t already heard (and debunked) a zillion times before, and we might take you seriously.

  • Raging Bee

    Never mind.

  • Kendall Fields

    And why? Because you hate righteousness? And like all people who say they would rather face hell than serve God once you enter hell you will immediately regret it.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Kendie-poo, when the facts contradict you and you refuse to reform, it’s not reality’s fault…it’s YOURS.

  • Raging Bee

    There’s also Satan as played by Peter Stormare in “Constantine.”

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Sorry, Bee. I was talking to Kendie-poo.

  • Kendall Fields

    The only thing you have accomplished is prove my point about you Atheists as a whole. I pray that you would actually use your head and learn from God rather than spout lies about God.

  • Raging Bee

    Yes, right you are. Nevermind…

  • Raging Bee

    Show where she’s lied and we’ll take you seriously.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah you guys take me seriously but I don’t take you guys seriously. Try saying the truth and I might consider it.

  • Raging Bee

    Nope, we’ve heard that before too.

  • Kendall Fields

    Calling God evil, a dictator, denying his righteousness, etc. are proof enough of her lies. Tell the truth and I might take you guys seriously.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure you have.

  • Raging Bee

    All of that is based on the Bible. So either she’s telling the truth, or the Bible is wrong. Which is it?

  • Kendall Fields

    The Bible is correct but she is wrong. If you guys actually learned something from reading the Bible, you guys would understand the truth. But you let Satan blind yourself to the truth.

  • Kendall Fields

    Not at all. She is just as morally superior to God in the same vein I am: not at all.

  • abb3w

    “Prove” what parts? Cue Hume on “is” versus “ought” yet again.

  • Kendall Fields

    So you keep telling yourself.

  • “Little Courtney?”

    Stay classy.

  • Raging Bee

    Which parts of the Bible are correct? The ones that support your prejudices, or the ones that don’t?

  • Kendall Fields

    And where in the Bible does it say the world is flat? Oh yeah it doesn’t.

  • Thanks, Kendall. I appreciate you joining in on the discussion and offering a different viewpoint. Have an awesome day.

  • Kendall Fields

    Thank you. I appreciate you calling me classy.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower
  • Kendall Fields

    It is sad that you don’t have anything better to call my beliefs than “prejudices”. You need Jesus.

  • Raging Bee

    Yes, there are references to “corners” of the Earth in the Bible, and they were quoted at one time by people who wanted to reject round-Earthism.

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh I didn’t know sarcasm was in your vocabulary.

  • Raging Bee

    It is sad that your beliefs are no better than prejudices. You need an education.

  • Kendall Fields

    You do realize people call places the ” corners of the Earth” and know it is not flat.

  • Raging Bee

    That doesn’t change what certain other people said in the past.

  • Raging Bee

    Also, a lot would depend on exactly HOW the truth of the Bible is proven. If, for example, it was Jesus showing up, performing a lot of miracles, and teaching the same things he taught last time, a lot of present-day Christians would crucify him all over again, and go right on believing their own versions of Christianity. And the atheists would see that and say “Okay, you guys are still full of 69shit.”

  • Raging Bee

    Can’t you even flounce better than that?

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure it is. You need Jesus more.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Kendie, honey, your projection is so strong NASA wants to use you as an environmentally-friendly launch motive.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure it doesn’t.

  • Kendall Fields

    You mean how like you have been flaying about.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    *Both* of you are morally superior to ‘god’…’things’ for which there are no evidence can’t have morality, and your ‘god’ is one such undemonstrated ‘thing’.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Your assertions only hold weight in your fevered imagination, and that of YOUR KIND.

    Reality disagrees vehemently from you.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Nope.

    YOU need to *demonstrate* this ‘jesus’ if you want me to stop mocking your naivete.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Kendie-poo, that’s how a *polite* person says GoTheFuckAway…

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Uh, you need to *look up* those fancy words before you use them, Kendie honey.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    YOUR KIND know nothing, and apparently work hard to keep that nasty naivete. I wouldn’t have believed that combination was possible until I met YOUR KIND of fundy.

  • Raging Bee

    Sounds like your tantrum’s almost run its course…

  • Raging Bee

    Right above your head.

  • Raging Bee

    THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD!* Unless some commie liberal misinterprets it…

    ___________________
    * Seen on a real bumper-sticker.

  • blogcom

    How can you use moral and we in the same sentence.

  • Raging Bee

    We’ve said exactly the same things to Christians. And unlike you, we have evidence to back up our claims.

  • Jim Jones

    Because your god is yourself and you are a jerk.

    And we know you are your own god because you both agree on everything. If you aren’t the same as your god, tell us on what points you disagree.

  • Raging Bee

    Why can’t I? It’s a proper sentence.

  • Not being sarcastic. Genuinely glad to have a differing viewpoint. That’s why I’m here. I have never believed in a god or been religious and so I am fascinated to learn about people’s experiences with these things. I genuinely appreciate your response and I genuinely hope you have a good day.

  • Jim Jones

    I love righteousness. I love it with every fiber of my being.

    I almost never see it from Christians. And if I do, it’s always from some person who is unknown to most everyone.

    Those Christians I know by name have no shred of righteousness – they are vile human beings.

    I love Fred Rogers’ three commandments: Be kind. Trump’s 100 commandments are: Be as cruel as possible.

  • Jim Jones

    And Hitler is sitting at the right hand of Jesus, watching Anne Frank burning in hell. According to Christians.

    Christianity is the worst religion ever.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure it is. And it is sad what happened to Anne Frank but she made her choice. She was not innocent in terms of her beliefs. The Bible is not a myth nor is God ruling by fear. Hell is a punishment and it is righteous. Nor is warning people of it ruling by fear. It is a wabring to do right.

  • Kendall Fields

    You mean like how bad your argument has become.

  • Kendall Fields

    No you don’t.

  • Jim Jones

    LTJG Kaffee: I want the truth!

    Col Jessep: You can’t handle the truth!

    Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know — that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

    You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall — you need me on that wall.

    We use words like “honor,” “code,” “loyalty.” We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

    I would rather that you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don’t give a DAMN what you think you’re entitled to!

  • Kendall Fields

    I am not God for a few simple reasons that anyone with a knowledge of who God is should know.

  • Jim Jones

    > Try saying the truth and I might consider it.

    Gods are impossible, Jesus never existed, and the bible is fiction from the first page to the last.

    Ordinary faith is expectation, based on experience.

    Religious faith is wishful thinking.

  • Jim Jones

    He projects more than a blue whale’s penis.

  • blogcom

    It doesn’t promote anything of the sort, it exposes the depravity of human nature without soft soap that’s the rub, and the reason nones don’t like it.
    You should know that by now.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure you do. But I’ll bet you will try and talk about me to your “colleagues”. I pray that you find the right path in life.

  • blogcom

    Because a sphere is flat????

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I pray that you find the right path in life.

    The fundie f***-off.

    Kendie-poo, IF prayer *worked*, you wouldn’t have to *tell* us you were praying, just do it.

    So you’ve just made it plain that YOU don’t believe in prayer, either, and are just using it as a futile attempt at a slam.

  • Kendall Fields

    I can’t trust your words given what you have been saying. If you love righteousness then you would love God.

  • Jim Jones

    Any baby is morally superior to the kitchen god of the Jews. and the ‘Allah’ of Muslims.

    ‘I’m so proud of my son’: Little Boy Holds Hand of Crying Classmate With Autism on First Day of School

  • Kendall Fields

    Try using something that actually matters.

  • Kendall Fields

    The Bible is true, God is real and Jesus is real. Without God, logic means nothing. Saying God doesn’t exist is foolish and pathetic.

  • Jim Jones

    Show us where your opinions differ.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope not at all.

  • Kendall Fields

    No baby is morally better than God. Not by a long shot.

  • Kendall Fields

    It seems you do not understand my point. Tell me as I am a human being how can I be God when unlike him I sin like any man.

  • I work alone. I mean, I suppose I could chat to my cat about you but really all I would say is that it’s a shame you can’t see how your behaviour here completely annihilates any claims of superior morality. Then I’d tell my little orange kitty that it sucks to see someone so upset and that I hope your day gets better. Cat would likely not respond. He’s a cat.

  • Matt Woodling

    Let’s assume that “proven true” means there is a god and that god inspired the words in the Bible and created everything and watches everything at this very moment and for all moments ever. I would have to hold the god responsible and call him out for the horrid things he’s done or let happen. I would hold him accountable for creating humans capable of doing what they do, knowing they were going to do it. I would castigate him for creating humans fundamentally flawed and then requiring them to fix themselves in order to earn his company and banning them to eternal agony or eternally being alone or eternally not existing (this last one doesn’t seem bad at all and seems likely to be what happens to everyone) for not admiring him.

    And if a shovel were nearby, I’d probably smack him with the shovel.

  • Hide. I’m too old to build a shack in the mountains, so it would have to be in plain site, dressed like a Christian, making the proper nods of the head, but secretly working with the resistance.

  • Kendall Fields

    Not once have I claimed to be morally superior. You guys have been the one to truly claim that. Your arrogance in this articles shows how pathetic your cause is and if that was enough your lies against God destroy your reputation even more. A cat is a lesser being created by God. We are above animals. Oh and your claims of “working alone” mean little from what I have seen on your “pages”.

  • I don’t think that’s understanding what the emailer meant. If Christianity is true, the version the emailer believes, then God is a moral monster. He sends people to hell, he uses poor reasoning, either he doesn’t gives us powers of reasoning to understand him or he is unreasonable, he is arbitrary, he excludes people based on faith which is opposite of reason. Christianity being true does mean it is right in some moral realism version of universally right.

  • blogcom

    You do realize Matt you not just talking about a bigger human than you.
    In fact you not talking about a human at all but someone infinitely superior?
    Probably not, hence the hubris.

  • Chris Hogue

    Draw a circle, make a mountain as big as you want, draw a line of sight from the top of said mountain. Can you see all points of the planet from the top? No. So, does it say the world is flat. Oh yeah, it does!!!

  • Matt Woodling

    Yes, I realize, which would make the god infinitely more evil than any human could be.

  • Chris Hogue

    Imagined superiority… You mean, like a religious person. Pick a religion, any religion!

  • Raging Bee

    You’ve plainly shown us that nothing matters to you. (So why should you matter to us?)

  • Raging Bee

    You do realize you’re offering nothing but a “might makes right” argument. Probably not, hence the childishness.

  • Artor

    Jah Rastafari is the True God, and the sacrament in every church in the world has to change.

  • Raging Bee

    Yet another “might makes right” argument: “The Bible is tough and you hate it ’cause you’re all 69pussies!” (Which, strangely enough, many 69reich-wing Christians routinely say to people who actually try to follow the teachings of Jesus.)

  • Raging Bee

    Not once have I claimed to be morally superior.

    You lie.

  • Artor

    He didn’t mean it. You are anything but that.

  • Kendall Fields

    No that is false what you said. That does not in any way say the world is flat. Try actually reading it instead of picking verses.

  • Kendall Fields

    Because as humans you should understand the folly of actions.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope.

  • Kendall Fields

    Thanks I appreciate you reinforcing what he said about how classy I am.

  • blogcom

    Oh those honcho hippy heretics you mean

  • blogcom

    Who actually try to follow,,,,,,,,oh you mean those honcho hippy heretics

  • Artor

    Oops, I forgot. You really are that dense.

  • People as you are one of the reasons why so many are fleeing of religion.

    Congratulations. Keep it going.

  • I also pray the gods your skull will not be as thick.

  • Kendall Fields

    Thanks I appreciate it. After all it is not like you aren’t really dense at all to understand what I mean.

  • Kendall Fields

    More people are coming to believe in Jesus than there are those who never truly believed leaving or those who are overcoming their issues to return to Christ. Congratulations on pushing people to Jesus.

  • Kendall Fields

    What use would praying to false gods do for you? There is only God and you are an atheist.

  • blogcom

    Or that’s relevant

  • Kendall Fields

    True that.

  • blogcom

    Its your thought process that’s off or a lack of consciousness

  • blogcom

    Says you to make you feel better

  • Chris Hogue

    I try to refrain from reading overtly contradicting trash.

  • Matt Woodling

    You have faith in a god that you can’t demonstrate exists. You have no basis from which to criticize someone else’s thought process, or consciousness for that matter. You’re trying to use rationality here to make a point. I would suggest you keep trying to improve on that rather than issue vague criticisms with no support.

  • I’d rather prefer nature delties. Your friend said nothing ’bout respecting the environment.

  • Kendall Fields

    So basically you are trying to insult the non-contradicting word of God. How sad.

  • Kendall Fields

    “Nature deities” do nothing for you especially since they aren’t real. Only God can provide salvation.

  • Sadly statistics say otherwise. Keep the nonsense going on.

  • Chris Hogue

    God’s so-called non-contradictory word is an insult to reality. The sad part is that people actually bible (buy bull).

  • You’ve a skull so thick that it could be used to demolish buildings. Keep it going.

  • Kendall Fields

    Statistics say Christianity is growing while atheism is decreasing in percentage by a wide margin. Pay attention to the whole world instead of just one place.

  • Kendall Fields

    It is Bible and God’s word is not an insult to reality because it represents reality.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure.

  • God or Satan?. I’m still waiting for the response to what I asked you the other day

  • Sure, sure, thanks to the monies donated by US Fundies. In the First World things are going quite differently. In fact, other studies say I*lam will be the dominating one in 2050.

    It’s here at Patheos.

  • Kendall Fields

    I already answered your question. Satan can’t provide salvation since he is not God and only God can provide salvation.

  • I guess you’re a hidden Satanist then.

  • Chris Hogue

    God has only found in religion and by the religious. Religions antonym: REALITY.

  • Kendall Fields

    Man your comments continue to get more and more foolish.

  • Lee Heller

    Peter Stormare does not get enough credit for that excellent portrayal. His barely restrained psychopathy (evil) was wonderfully delivered.

  • Derek Mathias

    I answered a very similar question on Quora with this diatribe:

    https://www.quora.com/Would-most-atheists-be-pleasantly-surprised-to-learn-God-exists-if-that-were-true/answer/Derek-Mathias-3

    Or if you’d prefer to watch my video version of it, here you go:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcHYsieoQK8

  • Lee Heller

    Actually it was the leaders who felt justified, especially with the blessings of the Catholic Church. The mass mentality of following orders allowed the ground troops to excuse their own barbarism. Also, most Senior Commanders were Catholic in the German army, the Church had the ability to threaten to excommunicate them which would have disrupted German greatly, but instead it chose to keep quite because the Germany Military met with the Pope and basically told him “you leave us alone and we will leave you alone”. It all came down with wanting to stay in power. No different than most religions. Wouldn’t it be nice if “Christians” would just live their beliefs and try to persuade others by their actions than with their words,fear mongering and threats.

  • Chris Hogue

    Facts can seem weird to crazy people just like beliefs seem weird to me. You can believe whatever you’d like, I’m going to continue to be lieving facts in the equation in reference to reality.

  • Courtney, thanks for this interesting and provocative essay. I’ll address a couple of quotes:

    “I wouldn’t – no – couldn’t worship a god who wants us to believe he’s merciful but who also demands we love him and if we don’t he’ll throw us in the fire, forever.”

    “So, what would I do if I found out Christianity was true? Well, I’d just have to yell louder, fight harder and blog more right here on Godless Mom. I’m sorry to say, believers, but it’d just add fuel to my fire.”

    I certainly agree with you that if Christianity were true, God would not be worthy of our worship, praise, reverence, or obedience. I would certainly wish I could be part of the disloyal opposition, as you are confident you would be. But I am not as sure as you seem to be. Could I, really could any of us, be disobedient if we were sure that the cost were eternal torture? I am much more confident that I will never conclude that Christianity is true.

  • paulsilvan

    Thankfully, that will NEVER, E V E R happen! Perhaps the existence of SOME sort of a creator may be proven, but certainly NOT one which has supernatural powers, and Christianity (nor any other religion created by Man) will DEFINITELY not be proved to be truth . That creator may have no awareness at all that it or we even EXIST. The creator may be no more than the flusher of some sort of a cosmic toilet, the germs from which humans evolved on Earth.

  • Jim Jones

    What would ‘proof’ involve? What would be proved?

  • anne marie hovgaard

    Make your millennium maybe, last time he took 2000 years to do it! Jack Harkness would be back up and making a pass at you in minutes.

  • Kendall Fields

    So what you are saying is that you are crazy since it is a fact that God is real?

  • Robert Baden

    Which Xtianity? I was raised UU and looked at Universalist Xtianity for a while.

  • Maltnothops

    Meh, the god described in the bible is a logical impossibility. It is possible for the god of the bible to exist, but only if the bible is wrong. I wouldn’t hold my breath on the the existence of the god of the bible.

  • C_Alan_Nault

    That question is on par with the one used by anti-abortionists: how would you feel if your mother had aborted you?

  • Allen T Coffey

    Great answer, Courtney.

  • Jesus was sent to be the ultimate sacrifice to replace the animal sacrifices by the temple cult. Temple and the Cult were destroyed in 70AD so a substitute was needed, so take the popular greco roman savior mystery cults like Baccus, and and some Judaism and you have Christianity. Jesus was basically a theological RETCON

  • Raging Bee

    Wow, thanks for showing how mature our Christian respondents are.

  • Raging Bee

    ALL “actions?” Do you have any clue what you’re talking about?

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes I do. I forgot to add a little part to my sentence.

  • Raging Bee

    A point? That little part?

  • Jennifer

    Kendall, I was disgusted by a few of the comments here too, but most of the ones I’ve seen are honest reactions based on people’s perceptions and experience. There’s no reason to put down the OP based on that.

  • Jennifer

    It would indeed be craven if you or anyone expected Him to die for us (or anyone else). But that’s the thing, we didn’t ask. He did it freely.

  • Freodin

    [rantmode on]
    Sometimes I despair of this wonderful and efficient filter that Patheos has decided to grace us with.
    My response to Lausten’s post here was, for whatever reason, send to moderation. I have no idea what strange combination of letters caused it this time.
    Ok, fine, whatever. There’s nothing bad or offensive in that post, regardless of what the filter might “think”.

    So the post got approved. Thank you, mom.

    But now – totally my fault – there were some typos in the post. And I foolishly decided to correct them – well, one of them. And so, becauise I didn’t want to leave in “to” when it should read “two”… the post is in moderation again.

    Thank you, Patheos, thank you so much for protecting us from having to read bad words by destroying our desire to read or write anything!
    [rantmode off]

  • Silverwolf13

    Exactly. Was Jesus born in a stable, or was he visited by the Magi? What about the slaughter of the innocents and the flight into Egypt? Luke says yes to the stable, but doesn’t mention the Magi or the slaughter of the innocents or the flight into Egypt. Matthew denies the stable, but says yes to the Magi, the slaughter of the innocents, and the flight into Egypt.

  • Astreja

    Even if there was a real Jesus (possible, but unlikely), and even if it was his intention to sacrifice himself in such a matter, I still reject it. It’s an utterly vile concept.

  • Pat Lisenbee

    Lol, am watching Lucifer right now on Netfilx! Yummy yum yum… I love this devil and what his job in hell really was makes more sense than anything the bible has to give.

  • Jim Jones

    Jesus never existed.

  • Jim Jones

    An interstellar travel trailer dumping the black water tanks on an unimportant planet.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Could I, really could any of us, be disobedient if we were sure that the cost were eternal torture?

    Ask the WWII resistance members who knew they could be caught and tortured.

    ANY torture feels eternal.

  • I find it worse: what if that Testament had been lost to history and because it contained critical bits not present in others everyone gets eternal damnation?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Authoritarian predators have to be resisted at every turn, regardless of what power they possess, else all will suffer worse.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You’re so terrified of this ‘god’ thing that you’re willing to shill for it rather than denounce its pretty demonstrably immoral acts, behavior, and temper.

  • So? I gave my dad a Rubix’s Cube type thing for a christmas/birthday present.

    It’s a cube not a square so it isn’t flat

    It still has corners.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    O RLY?

    Go ahead, imagine what would happen if a leftist Semitic man speaking no English showed up and started causing problems for capitalism and hypocritical authoritarian religion.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Oh you know the lies she says about God.

    So goes the whine of EVERY loser with zero evidence and a total inability to demonstrate anything but outraged delicate fee-fees.

    Go clutch your pearls elsewhere.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Like the skeptical mindset that gave us science, and through science the computer you’re using to spread your 69swill?

    Because ‘religion’ and your ‘god’ have 69fuckall to do with what matters.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    YOUR KIND don’t get to define ‘relevance’ any more…and we’re sick of you trying to steal your unearned, unDESERVED privilege back.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Ah, so now you’re claiming to be other than human…INteresting…

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Your self-image is painfully swollen.

    I’d see a doctor about it.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    The Bible is true, God is real and Jesus is real. Without God, logic means nothing. Saying God doesn’t exist is foolish and pathetic.

    I’m getting a LOT of mileage out of this image… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4f3150ef1736a97f38e5331eec815059a13ac6a27961f02da4b1e26161c6dbf.jpg

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Oooo, let’s add *sociopathy* to your list of attributes!

    You’re so scared of this ooga-booga ‘god’ that you’re denying the very emotions and survival attributes that make us human and help us survive.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Unless you missed it, your ‘god’ commanded at least 2 genocides and drowned the Earth at least once, per your ‘bible’.

    It’s not OUR fault it’s such a 69fucked-up mess of lies.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    If your ‘jesus’ came back, YOUR KIND would be the ones making the cross and nailing him up on it for exposing what 69shitty human beings you are.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Either way, your God CREATED 69Hell, and you just agreed that it’s okay for him to send people to that place of eternal merciless torment, just for not believing in (the correct version of) him.

    Speaking of Kendie-poo, have you ever seen a worse case of Stockholm Syndrome?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    All this is according to your 69fucked-up book, here:

    So punishing children with death and pain for disobedience BEFORE you’ve taught them right from wrong is ‘righteous’?

    Drowning the entire world because your creations are such 69fuckups that you can’t stand them is ‘righteous’?

    Burning a city to the ground and punishing a person who looks back in longing at the only place they’ve likely ever lived by turning them into a pillar of salt is ‘righteous’?

    Commanding at least 2 genocides is ‘righteous’?

    Advocating for an absolute monarchy and allowing slavery (and encouraging enslavement of foreigners) is ‘righteous’?

    How twisted your sad little psyche is that you’ll excuse all that for fear of the threat of eternal torture for which there’s ZERO rational evidence.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Your own book tells you your ‘god’ is jealous and creates evil.

    How can you call that ‘righteous’ and worth ANY kind of *love*?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    More people are coming to believe in Jesus than there are those who never truly believed leaving or those who are overcoming their issues to return to Christ.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4f3150ef1736a97f38e5331eec815059a13ac6a27961f02da4b1e26161c6dbf.jpg

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Xtianity only grows where life is 69shitty and people are desperate.

    As we humanists improve the lot of poor people, more and more will discard the false hope of religion…as has been demonstrated time and again in the real world.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    What use would praying to false gods do for you?

    The same thing that praying to YOUR false ‘god’ does for you…bupkis, except for giving you warm feeling like 69pissing in a dark suit.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I’d prefer the cat to Kendall here any day.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You 69fatuous little 69scumbag.

    If what you’re doing isn’t attempting to claim moral superiority based on your 69idiotic ‘god’ proclamations, then 69whattheeverlivingfuck IS it?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    …like a fine Persian rug…

    🙁

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower
  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I already answered your question. Satan can’t provide salvation since he is not God and only God can provide salvation.

    Who told you that, and why do you believe it?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Because from where I have been standing over the last couple of years all you Atheists do is look at single verses without understanding what they mean. read the black-letter text without rose-colored ‘god forgiving’ glasses on.

    FTFY.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Definitely a case of a LOLWUT!!??

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    Being a Christian the question doesn’t apply so i will answer the inverse of it

    If Christianity was disproved I would still live as a Christian. If someone asks for my shirt i will give him my coat as well. (Yes, I have actually given the coat off my back when asked)

    I feel Christianity is a worthy philosophy so not much would change

  • 24CaratHooligan

    My favourite take on “religion has to be the late, great Terry Pratchett’s brilliant “Small Gods” . I’d be more than happy to believe in any Discworld Gods, in fact I believe I have been blessed by Annoia more than once. I’d even believe in Om.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    You WISH people would talk about you…

  • 24CaratHooligan

    An ex used to to say “like a wet dog on a dirty rug”

  • Kendall Fields

    It shouldn’t be too hard for you to unserstand.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    We understand your point just fine.

    We’re accusing you, with this dialogue among others as evidence, of using your ‘god’ as an excuse to be a petulant brat demanding your own way when you have no evidence to support your peevish desires.

  • Kendall Fields

    As much as it may as seem to be like that their “honest” perceptions may not be so.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    He did it freely.

    Says who? And why do you believe it?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Tyrion Lanniser has you covered:

    https://youtu.be/Qir2crJDMDw?t=42

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    That’s compassionate humanism wearing a coat of xtian paint, FWIW.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope.

  • towercam

    Yep. Prayer is begging.
    Worship of anything is bad.
    Nothing is worthy of worship; worthy of love, protection, admiration, yes…not worship.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    Yes, there is a book by a free thinker that mirrors my sentiments. I can’t recall the name offhand

  • GW1: Could I, really could any of us, be disobedient if we were sure that the cost were eternal torture?

    H2: Ask the WWII resistance members who knew they could be caught and tortured.

    GW2: I would be happy to ask them, but their situation is not really comparable. They probably believed that there was a 50% chance they would be caught, tortured, and killed. That is not the same thing as knowing that you would be caught and tortured forever.

    H2: ANY torture feels eternal.

    GW2: No, it doesn’t! The ability to tolerate torture depends on one’s predictions of how long it will last and one’s beliefs about escaping it.

    GW2: If you were certain that you would be tortured eternally if you failed to comply with a command, would you comply or not?

  • Chris Hogue

    God is only a theory with zero evidence to back it up.

  • Kendall Fields

    Says the Atheist with no proof for his cause yet dares to falsely claim that God does not exist.

  • Chris Hogue

    I’ve made no claims about your seemingly absurd gawd. Besides, your an atheist of every other god if I’m an atheist of yours.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope. I am a follower of Jesus Christ not an atheist. And yes you have made claims about God.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    Yeah you do, you’re getting all excited thinking about these godless heathens talking about you and in reality we’re just living our happy godless lives (well not in my case, I have several gods in my life, just not yours. And mine make no pretensions about being “better” than me) not mentioning you at all.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    TESTIFY! I’m in, where do I sign up?

  • Jennny

    No he doesn’t understand that concept. Somewhere else he told me I’m a liar, I notice he’s done so here as well…so I replied I thought x-tians shouldn’t judge…and, cos every word of his bible is true, sez he, suggested ‘judge not that ye be not judged’…and ROTFLMAO, he came back with a verse about the wisdom of his (superior) judgement of me. I’d said I’d been fundy and read the bible for 50yrs, but no, KJ knows better than that, apparently I only skimmed it…which made another commenter ask if I’d considered putting that forward for The Guinness Book of Records.’, 50yrs of skimming the bible must be some sort of record. Am thinking of getting the T-shirt though…’I skimmed the bible for 50yrs and just look at me now.’…

  • Raging Bee

    Yep, I guess no one ever made it to Heaven before the KJV — including those heathen schmucks who thought the original divinely inspired writings were accurate.

  • Raging Bee

    He’s not afraid of his imaginary BFF at all; he’s just using his belief to pretend he’s better than us. Deep down, I’m pretty sure he knows it’s not real, and not good for any other purpose.

  • Raging Bee

    There are bigots in blogcom’s and Kendie-poo’s camp who have said outright, in all seriousness, that they can’t follow the teachings of Jesus because that would make them leftists and socialists. And of course they’re dead silent on the implications of their reasoning.

  • Raging Bee

    You didn’t actually show where GM was lying. All you did was re-paste the same catechism and PRATT-points we’ve all heard and refuted before. Your childishness and inability to deal with experienced adults is noted.

  • Raging Bee

    The Bible is true…

    Which interpretation of the Bible? With or without the Apocrypha?

    Without God, logic means nothing.

    Only to someone who could never handle logic in the first place. So tell us — if all logic depends on God, why are believers so much less logical than non-believers?

  • Kendall Fields

    I did point out where she lied. And you have refuted nothing. You foolish attitude and inability to tell the truth is sad.

  • Kendall Fields

    What other interpretation than God is good. You say believers are “less logical” because you know the simple truth.

  • Raging Bee

    We say believers are less logical because they keep on proving themselves so. And you just did your bit of proof for today too.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah what was proven here is your own lack of knowledge and understanding of God.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You’re an atheist about tens of thousands of ‘gods’…you just give yours a pass because you were psychologically abused and terrorized before your skepticism kicked in.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Your ‘god’, according to your book, committed genocide once and commanded it be done at least 2 other times.

    So, NOT good by any rational definition.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    How are we supposed to understand something that is defined by a book full of contradictions in descriptions of it?

  • Richard Dennis

    I really like how your mind works! It makes perfect sense that if it is proven Christianity is true, it follows that all the claims are somehow true! This is why I can’t imagine the scenario to even reasonably answer the question. It becomes upside down world. Would I be able to make the mental adjustments to accept the evidence after seeing it as complete bullocks? Would it still seem bizarre and unkind? Would I be able to give the emotional investment required, even if I mentally can agree to its truth? I have to agree, a Christian providing this scenario is ultimately trying to call out our unbelief as some kind of character/moral flaw when we can’t readily say we would become full on Jesus converts.

  • And Isaiah says it was his own wife who was the virgin who gave birth!

  • blogcom

    Admires genocide and sex slavery …. don’t know how you arrive at that conclusion describing something that took place in no way implies endorsement let alone admiration. You must have a problem with authors of crime and violence if relating a story is as good as supporting its vices.
    Christianity hoped to impact the culture for good but couldn’t command things change outside of Church.
    Against the backdrop of Roman culture the Church had civilized values way ahead of its time.
    And the slavery you refer to was not the North Atlantic Slave Trade.

  • blogcom

    Jewish leaders, at the time Christianity made its appearance were asked by fellow Jews; how do we deal with this movement in reference to Christianity or The Way.
    The answer was we do nothing and they gave their reasons:
    If its of man it will fizzle out on its own so we don’t have to worry but if it is from God we don’t want to fight Him.
    Different perspectives I suppose.

  • blogcom

    He eschewed politics so your scenario is unlikely.

  • blogcom

    That’s easy because Jesus wasn’t a leftist or a politician for that matter.

  • blogcom

    Having a temper tantrum now?

  • Raging Bee

    Plenty of Christians who’ve been labelled “leftists” or “socialists” for advocating policies in line with Jesus teachings, can tell you you’re dead wrong.

  • Raging Bee

    “May” not? You still don’t know for sure?

  • blogcom

    And you think your kind whoever they may be do?

  • Kendall Fields

    No I think the question should be about you.

  • blogcom

    And I’ll tell them they have it wrong, because they would say that wouldn’t they.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Because the God described in the Bible is a genocidal, misogynistic, narcissistic control freak who isn’t worthy of worship. Your idea of righteousness is abusive and controlling, just like your God. I truly could not even force myself to pretend to worship him.

  • Frolios

    What would you do if Christianity was proven true? What an odd question for a Christian to ask. I don’t know of ANY Christians who don’t believe that their Christian faith is already “proven”. Just asking the question seems to imply the questioner is conceding that the truthfulness of his/her faith is not a dead-on certainty. So before attempting to answer the question, I would need to clarify the questioner’s definition of the word, “proven”.

  • Raging Bee

    And I’m sure they find your advice just as credible as we do, amirite?

  • Kendall Fields

    Wow calling God evil because you hate how he is a righteous, just God. How sad.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    If the existence of “god” was proven beyond all doubt and everyone accepted it as a fact like the existence of trees or head lice, then the christians (or whichever god it was) wouldn’t be able to be special. That’s what bites them. They’d have no extra special imaginary friend.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    The lovely Tom Ellis. From my neck of the woods 🙂

  • Raging Bee

    The Christians gumming up this thread certainly don’t seem to have any answers.

  • Raging Bee

    That’s a good point. I notice the Christians on this thread aren’t all that smug about the prospect — they’re in full insecure triggered freakout mode; like a bunch of children suddenly forced to act like grownups.

  • Jim Jones

    Trump would have him deported as a brown skinned foreigner with no paperwork.

  • Jim Jones

    School’s back soon. It’ll be out of the basement.

  • RickLogic

    If Christianity were proven true, it would be the end of feeling superior or saved for having faith.

  • Silverwolf13

    The Greeks recognized that people needed to let loose once in a while.

  • Silverwolf13

    Yahweh authorized slavery, rape, and genocide, then murdered all the firstborn in Egypt. Satan offered a woman a piece of fruit.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Thanks, I needed that laugh. I’ve read the Bible, if that’s what you call righteous and just, you need to get a dictionary and then read your Bible.

  • Tiny but fierce

    I, too, have been blessed by Annoia. May your drawers ever stick! *Waves spatula*

  • Kendall Fields

    You will learn about God through the Bible than if you listen to Atheists. And the Bible shows God to be what he is: the almighty, good, just, and faithful God.

  • Judy Thompson

    brava, brava, brava.

  • Judy Thompson

    well, they’d just have to make him up, wouldn’t they. Oh… wait…

    never mind

  • Judy Thompson

    or thrown into one of those cushy detention tanks along with the rest of the foreigners

  • Judgeforyourself37

    LMAO, right, and if you someone, anyone’s daughter came home and announced that she was pregnant and swore that she never had a sexual encounter. would they believe her?? Nope, not on your tintype. Mary or what ever her name was. It certainly was not “Mary” living in the Nazareth, or Jerusalem. Mary gave birth to a baby the way all women who have given birth, it was nine months after unprotected sex. Or if she used “protection,” that protection failed.
    Jesus was a human being, and a Jew, but was such a good kind Jewish human being that he accepted all who loved God, whether they were Jewish, or Samaritans, or even those who did not believe in any God or Gods.
    Furthermore, he was a political dissident and put to death for going against the government of his time. He did not rise from the dead, but he made such an impact of his fellow man that they thought that the “saw” him after his crucifixion.

  • Raging Bee

    We learn even more when we study the Bible AND listen to atheists. Even many Christians admit this.

  • “Righteousness” is the most heinous, disgusting word in the English or any other language. When someone claimes to be righteous, it reallly meand being an arrogant pr!ck.

  • Compassrose44

    If Christianism were proven to be true AND implemented across the land, I’d immediately open a slave market since slavery is okay according to the Bible. This is, of course, snark. But something many Christians who want the Bible to be the “law of the land” miss is that slavery, genocide and all forms of bigotry are okay according to the Bible. Also, the Bible is silent on the issues of human rights, democracy and social justice. Instead, it pushes a monarchical form of government (the so called “King of Kings, Lord of Lords” stuff). So, if Christianism is proven to be true, who is going to be king?

    I actually think a better question is “What if God were proven to exist through scientific processes?” You’d have to establish the existence of God before you could establish the “trueness” of Christianity. The two are not mutually inclusive. What if it turned out God exists, but Islam is the “true” religion?

  • mikebank

    I would have to acknowledge god is real, but I still wouldn’t worship him/her, because god is terribly flawed.

    And which sect is correct?

  • Kendall Fields

    Wow using those bad pictures to in a failed effort to express your point. You aren’t good at this.

  • Kendall Fields

    Not at all.

  • Kendall Fields

    So you tell yourself and are you saying that out of experience about youitself?

  • Contractions of Fate

    I’d ask him if you could feed 5000 people with five loaves and two fishes, why does anyone starve?

    Is it because you spend all your time in Africa giving AIDS to babies?

    >:8o

  • Tiny but fierce

    Like I said, I’ve read the Bible.

  • Raging Bee

    You really have no real-world experience, do you?

  • Raging Bee

    There’s more life experience supporting his claim than you will ever have.

  • Duncan R. Bryson

    Stockholm Syndrome – good analogy. Hadn’t thought of it that way.

  • Duncan R. Bryson

    I thought the comments on this might be “interesting” so, as a bit late on this one, I tried to go to the earliest. This is as far as I got and this thread is developing into a War and Peace. Biggest can of worms you’ve ever opened?

  • Duncan R. Bryson

    “I hope whatever has you so angry today” – probably angry at “God” for something???

  • Duncan R. Bryson

    Didn’t the ancient Egyptians worship cats? They did mummify some.

  • Duncan R. Bryson

    I’m rather amused that religious people think they can “prove” the “existence” of their omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and all other superlatives to infinity deity by meer words and pulling “quotes” from their book which is essentially at least 1600 years old and greater. They can’t seem to grasp that, although they consider their book authoritative, we don’t. And this is only considering the Abrahamic religions.

  • Silverwolf13

    There were plenty of preachers running around Israel at that time, many preaching social justice. I have no doubt that some of them said things that got them in serious trouble with the Roman government, the Sanhedrin, or both. And there’s a good possibility that some of them were named Yehoshua. One of these—or, more likely, an amalgam of several of them—may have been used as the basis of the Jesus story.

    But the miraculous details are pure fabrication.

    The birth story follows standard myth. A miraculous birth from the sea (Mary = Latin “mare” = the sea. Compare Moses being found in the river or Aphrodite rising from the sea). Compare also the two conflicting birth narratives in Matthew and Luke, and the conflicting genealogies in those two gospels—both of which conflict with the genealogy in Genesis. The Flight into Egypt in Matthew is clearly designed to identify Jesus with Moses.

    Then check the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled, and you may note that these prophecies seem to be stretched to fit into the Jesus narrative.

    Then note that the dying and rising god is standard mythological fare. Dionysus died and then rose again. Maybe most famously, Isis reconstructed her husband Osiris after he had been killed and cut up into 14 pieces strewn about the world by Set.

    Lastly, compare the gospel story of the life of Jesus with the life of the Egyptian god Horus. The stories track almost deed for deed.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure you have but you more than likely skimmed ovet it and looked at specific verses of the Bible rather than the whole thing.

  • Kendall Fields

    And you are saying that you do? Because your statements lead me to think that you don’t.

  • Kendall Fields

    No there isn’t.

  • Raging Bee

    Wrong as always, boy. You’ll start to understand when you grow up a little. Or so we hope…

  • Kendall Fields

    No little kid you will grow up when you begin to understand the righteousness of God.

  • Tiny but fierce

    You make a lot of assumptions. I said and I meant, I read all 66 books, in order and completely, even the long and very boring “begats.” You’re thinking of Christians when you talk about skimming and looking at specific verses.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope because I think of atheists since you guys show so often that you guys don’t understand the Bible.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Well, to start with, I’m not an atheist although I suppose I can understand the confusion in this case. I am a non-Christian though. I was once Christian, I studied the Bible quite extensively.

  • Kendall Fields

    Uh huh. So by “extensively” you do same exact thing I pointed out: skim over the Bible until you find something that is supposedly contradictory.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Oh the assumptions fly again! No, I read the Bible word for word, every word. So the way through. And I wasn’t looking for contradictions, those are easy enough to find without an extensive reading. I looked at what the Bible actually said, what happened at Canaan, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Flood, the Tower of Babel. There was nothing just or righteous there. Nothing.

  • Kendall Fields

    What happened in those events you mentioned were righteous,and there are no contradictions in the Bible.

  • Raging Bee

    What’s even more amusing is when they say all that without ever producing any quotes, like the two Christian wankers on this thread. They literally show ZERO actual knowledge of the book they say proves everything they believe.

  • Raging Bee

    Both the question and the response are ridiculous.

    As opposed to…what…the rest of Abahamic theology?

  • If somebody steals your shirt and you know this, would you give him your coat as well? If so, why?

  • What would be proved would be all the main doctrines of Christianity, e.g. God exists, etc. I am an atheist, but I do not have trouble understanding the premise of the scenario.

  • Jim Jones

    I do. ISTM that it would be confusing, short of a survived execution or curing the blind and that would be an explosion.

  • I don’t understand your response. Could you please explain it?

  • Jim Jones

    Suppose that all Jesus could do was cure childhood blindness. How many would be brought to him and how long would it take? Desperate families would fly in from around the world.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    I would forgive him for stealing my shirt. If he stole it because he was cold I would give him my coat. I would do so because I trust in The Lord that my needs will be taken care of and because that is what He instructed me to do.

  • If a man, claiming to be Jesus in today’s world, cured every child of blindness who was brought to him, would that be proof of Christianity? I would think that a reliable demonstration of a “miracle” like that would be necessary but not sufficient. What do you think?

  • Your behavior would be unethical. You should report the theft to law enforcement. The theft itself is unethical and harmful to not only you but to the community. This is one of several examples where the Christian philosophy is not worthy of compliance.

  • David Cromie

    GM has said all that there needs to be said on the subject. Well done!

  • Jim Jones

    I think everybody would look for a different answer.

  • Jim Jones

    You would have great difficulty finding even one person who follows all that Jesus said (allegedly).

  • Jim Jones

    “You’ve got to cut loose, footloose, . . . “

  • But couldn’t Christians and nonChristians “reason together” and come to a consensus on what would constitute “proof” that Christianity was correct? I think they could.

    However, I think this discussion of what the “proof” would consist of is a side issue, not the main issue.

    Let’s reformulate the question: If Christianity were proven to be correct TO YOUR SATISFACTION, then how would you live your life differently?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    What if s/he stole it to sell it? And if ‘god’ was disproved, then assuming the Universe will care for you is a one-way ticket to starvation unless something else gets you first.

  • Jim Jones

    It is inconceivable that any such proof could even be imagined, let alone be confirmed.

    I’d be less amazed by a convincing demonstration of quantum mechanics in operation.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    Then i would forgive the person and regardless of whether God exists I won’t be fixated on the wrongs done to me and be free to live a happier life.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    In my opinion reporting the theft of a shirt to law enforcement is the ethical equivalent of calling the fire department because your cat is stuck in a tree. You are wasting resources for petty inconveniences that might be required for life and death situations.

  • You are just committing yourself to a dogmatic position — there is no possible way to prove to you that Christianity is correct or there is no evidence, reasons, or arguments which could persuade you that Christianity is correct. Some Christians are just as dogmatic in favor of their own position.

    You are evading the hypothetical question which simply asks you to assume a fact and then describe how you would react to that fact. It is a fair question. The flip question is fair also — “If you are a Christian and it were proven to your satisfaction that Christianity was false, how would you change your life?”

  • Jim Jones

    Tell me how?

  • How what? Be more specific, please.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    So you’re willing to be resource-poor and accept being the victim of predation, then?

    Sounds pretty 69masochistic to me.

  • Jim Jones

    How you would prove/disprove Jesus or Christianity.

    Short of Jesus.2 floating around on a cloud and never eating or drinking etc.

  • Jim Jones

    I can’t put it into words.

  • Ok, maybe you aren’t as dogmatic as you first appeared. Here you imply some evidence which might convince you. Assuming that there was proof TO YOUR SATISFACTION that Christianity is correct, how would you change your life?

  • Well then, I don’t see how we can have a discussion of this issue

  • Jim Jones

    You might ask the same about My Little Pony. Or Xena: Warrior Princess. (I’d prefer the latter).

  • I might do that, but it would be off topic. I think you do not wish to take the question seriously.

  • Tiny but fierce

    You can see that all you want, that doesn’t make it true. They were vile, genocidal acts in reality.

    Are you a literalist? If so, I hate to break it to you but yes, there are. Hope many women went to the tomb? What did they do afterwards? Check all 4 of the gospels, they do not agree on these simple facts.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope they were judgments on peopor not genocide. You are wrong again. Each of the four gospels mention different things to stress certain events that occurred. They never said only a specific number went there.

  • Jim Jones

    It’s mildly interesting but IMO quickly disintegrates into chaos and confusion.

    What if Jesus_2 started curing blindness by spitting into people’s eyes?

  • You are not taking the question seriously. You are evading the main issue. Sorry, but I’m going to discontinue our discussion now.

  • Jeff

    Why do soldiers sacrifice their lives for each other in battle, why are parents seen dying to save a drowning paralyzed child, or a mother taking a bullet for a baby in a Wal Mart shooting, why does a husband take a bullet for his wife. What parent seeing their child dying in a hospital bed, does not wish they could take the place of the child or even a loved one. “Vile”? I quote, “there is no greater love, than a man lay down his life for a friend.” Again I quote, “Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good.” The claim is that Jesus died for the world, the question then becomes, WHY? The chase for real TRUTH in this world will set you free. We can debate back and forth all day about your your belief vs my belief, be it atheism, God, karma, or reincarnation and it’s all about what I want vs what you want, where does that leave us? May I just say, on the behalf of followers of Jesus, I am so sorry for our behavior. The vindictive, hateful and hypocritical actions we exhibit. Followers of Jesus are broken and sinners like everyone. The difference is we know it and realize we need the help that someone only greater than ourselves can give, Jesus. Gods original design was not for this world to be filled with hate, injustice and war, but for the sake of love being a choice, He handed us the keys. All we have to do is look back through history and see that We have driven this world to where it is, not God. Hate, injustice, and war are just a few of the consequences of our bad driving. If God was to step in and intervene and save us from every bad decision, we would cease to be free will human and become pawns. I can’t force my wife or kids to love me, if I tried they would be more like slaves. My love, proven by my actions, is what drives them to love me. How far am I willing to go to prove my love for them, despite how they may treat me. Jesus paid it all with His life, for the world, despite how horrifically they treated Him! Each one of us has a unique experience in this life that has shaped the way we see the world. If your experience has been bad/ horrific, I’m sorry! As an example, I have not always had a good experience with gravity, things have fallen on my head, I have fallen on my face, worse of all, I have spilled my coffee, but I digress. Point being, I can choose to hate gravity, or even refuse to believe in it. My other choice, is to realize that maybe there is an order or purpose behind the the law of gravity and pursue the truth behind it. As most of us have realized, the result of not having gravity is much worse than having it. So how do I interact with it and use it to my benefit, and might I add, how do I do that without infringing on all of your rights to experience it freely. As I make my second point and close, let us not ignore truth based on experience and feeling, but let those things drive us to SEEK the truth. There are 4 fundamental questions of life. They boil down to this: origin, meaning, morality, destiny.

  • Jeff

    How many of you believe in George Washington or Abe Lincoln? There are as many eye witness accounts for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus as there are for past presidents. If you were going to fabricate a story, would you make one up that would get you killed? Old Testament prophets and eleven of the 12 apostles were brutally murdered for believing and testifying of Jesus. Not hardly a sales pitch for just a made up story. By the time one of my friends was Hanged, stabbed, or stoned to death I think I would have changed my story if it was made up. There are two kinds of people in this world, cynics and skeptics. Cynics ignore the truth for self benefit, skeptics are hesitant to believe the truth for self benefit but are willing to explore and even change if the truth prevails. Which are you and ask yourself, WHY? Gravity does not cease to exist just because it hurts sometimes.

  • Jim Jones

    > There are as many eye witness accounts for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus as there are for past presidents.

    If you can find some for Jesus, you will be rewarded mightily by every sect of religion.

    So far, not one has ever been found. All we have is anonymous, contradictory fiction, written 300 years after the supposed events and in a foreign country and a foreign language.

    Try this:
    Name one person who met Jesus, spoke to him, saw him or heard him who wrote about the event, has a name and is documented outside of the bible (or any other gospels).

  • Jim Jones

    > Why do soldiers sacrifice their lives for each other in battle … etc.

    Tribal solidarity and empathy. You’re way out6 of your depth here. You’ve swallowed the poison of religion and that leads to evil.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    You honestly think I would be resource poor for losing a shirt?

    Sounds like you are desperately looking for a talking point to me.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    There is no waste of resources? So when someone dies of a heart attack because the rescue people were getting your cat out of your tree it still sounds ethical to you to call rescue for such petty things?

    I’ll stick with the ethics of Jesus thank you

  • LD4: There is no waste of resources? So when someone dies of a heart attack because the rescue people were getting your cat out of your tree it still sounds ethical to you to call rescue for such petty things?

    GW4: You are still trying to use an analogy that doesn’t work. Stop talking about your cat in a tree and get back to the original example about forgiveness of a thief.

    LD4: I’ll stick with the ethics of Jesus thank you

    GW4: Yes, you will probably stick to the mistaken ethics of Jesus. He was not a very good ethicist.

  • Luther Dorn (deplorable)

    Fine, when a bank robber shoots someone he is trying to carjack fir his getaway would it not have been better for the cop to be responding to the robbery than taking a report about a stolen shirt?

    You seem to be pretending that trivial pursuits do not take up the finite time of first responders

  • Jeff

    In the interest of saving space, try this: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/

    Question: If Jesus turned out to be who He said He was and all evidence would prove it, would you actually believe? If the answer is no, then why waste time with people like me, because at that moment you become a bully and an antagonist. A cynic. On the other hand, if you are just a skeptic looking for the truth, I challenge you to treat your quest as if trying to solve a criminal case. Search out all evidence, and set aside all prejudices you have with the intent to find the truth. At this point it’s just my words against yours. I hope to spurn you on to find out for yourself what the real verdict is. If you do all this and I’m wrong then you’ve lost nothing, accept some time and gained a greater knowledge of the foolishness I believe in. On the other hand if I’m right then you will have gained everything and a future with the creator, and I will be exceedingly happy. My prayer is for the latter. Thank you for challenging me, I don’t have all the answers! Happy hunting!

  • Jim Jones

    Seriously, you need to leave now. You’re way out of your depth. Ludicrous drivel like Cold Case Christianity is no more compelling than the cynical ‘books’ by Lee Strobel.

    We’ve all read them as far as they stand up — which is about 2 pages.

    This is the area of Patheos for skeptics, not the gullible. You aren’t nearly ready for us. Go back to the Christian parts where your delusions won’t be easily punctured.

  • zencycler

    After death, if a deity appeared and gave me one more chance to believe, eternal bliss if I do or eternal hell if I don’t, I would say:

    Be gone demon, and do with me whatever you think you have the power to do. You cannot possibly be God, as any God who created this wondrous Universe would never do such a thing. So I’ll suffer whatever torment you are able to inflict to show my abiding faith in a divine and compassionate power that is surely greater than yours.

  • LD5: Fine, when a bank robber shoots someone he is trying to carjack fir his getaway would it not have been better for the cop to be responding to the robbery than taking a report about a stolen shirt?

    GW5: First, you are evading the first example of the stolen shirt. Second, it is your ethical responsibility to report crime, not set priorities for law enforcement. Third, in both your bad examples you assume that law enforcement does not have the resources or should not use them to respond to the report of a crime. That assumption is irrelevant to your making an ethical response. What is the correct ethical response with respect to the victim, the offender, and the community?

    LD5: You seem to be pretending that trivial pursuits do not take up the finite time of first responders

    GW5: You seem to be pretending that stealing a shirt is trivial.

    GW5: You still aren’t justifying your response of forgiveness of the shirt thief. You are evading the ethical issue. The Jesus response is a poor one.

  • Tiny but fierce

    “they were judgements on people not genocide.”

    So those babies and small children deserved to be killed? They were bad people? Let me guess, you’re “pro-life” too. Hahahahahaha!

  • David Cromie

    There is no falsifiable evidence, whether written or archaeological, that any man-god named JC ever existed.

  • I do wonder why God would invent humans. The Bible says he invented us so we could worship him. Excuse me? That’s it? Is god so needy that he requires adoration from puny little humans?

  • if there were a god, there would be no need of proof,or belief, or sects. This discussion would not exist. The deity would just be part of us and the idea of belief in anything beyond brussel sprouts would be superfuous.

  • Kendall Fields

    So because I agree with God’s righteous judgment, that makes me evil?

  • Kendall Fields

    One who are you to say that God does not have the right to decide the end of a person’s life. He is the author of life and the judge of humanity why shouldn’t he decide when people die.
    Two David had to understand actions had consequences. Allowing his son to die is a fitting punishment why do you think God chose that action on wait you wouldn’t understand because you never tried to understand why God chose that as the judgment on David. Plus the text never said the child suffered horribly only that he was sick which happens to many newborn children.
    Third Humanity is sinful because of Adam and Eve’s choice not because of God.

  • Kendall Fields

    Also you call Humanity’s fall nonsense because you can’t face the truth. Also Adam and Eve had the opportunity not to listen to Satan and follow God. It doesn’t take much of genius to understand how the world’s failures stem from humanity’s sin. Also you don’t have much of case at all to say God doesn’t exist other than the classic “I can’t see him” line you guys like to say.

  • Kendall Fields

    Also God knowing the day of your death doesn’t ebb egate free will. Try using actual logic that you proclaim to use.

  • Kendall Fields

    Also Bathsheba was willing in her adultery with David.

  • Mike De Fleuriot

    Yes, as an atheist with Christianity being real, I would go to hell. But guess what, I would automatically be proven correct for holding the position that I did. That any god worthy of worship would not allow hell to continue. And also any god worthy of acknowledgement would already know and understand this. This means that whatever happens, as an atheist I win in every case.

    For me, their heaven and hell hold no fear for me. Sure it might sting for a bit, but after a couple dozen trillion eons, would I really care?

  • Matt Woodling

    Right. And create us with the capability of sinning, presenting us with perfect opportunities to sin, wait for us to sin, watch us do it, then demand that the sinner and all of her progeny forever pay for it and be required to feel bad about and fix it without ever having the possibility of eliminating it. And love him to boot.

    It’s psychotic.

  • Mauigirl

    If Christianity is really true then the only thing I would need to do (which I try to do already) is live by the Golden Rule. I think that would pretty much sum up what Jesus really expects of us. The other BS is all man-made.

  • Tiny but fierce

    No, that doesn’t make you evil but it does make you delusional. If you see “righteousness” in mass slaughter, including infants and children, then you have no idea what the word actually means. You have no idea what makes a Deity actually benevolent. Because in no way, shape or form is genocide ever benevolent.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah re only delusional person is someone who says God is evil. The destruction of the Canaanites who did evil and polluted the land would allow the Israelites to avoid sin but as the Israelites refused to listen they became corrupted like the Canaanites and lost the land they were given by God. If you think God can’t decide to punish people for their actions, I think that shows you are just as evil them. You don’t know righteousness, benevolence or good.

  • Tiny but fierce

    You’re free to hold that opinion, just as I hold mine. If you can’t or won’t see the evil in the mass slaughter of Innocents, whatever their elders may have been guilty of, then I hold no hope for you in your pursuit of righteousness.

  • Kendall Fields

    And again does God not have the right to decide who will die? You are not free to hold your lie. You are only stuck in it. You examine yourself to be above God which shows your arrogance.

  • Tiny but fierce

    I’ve often felt that it’s much more arrogant, thinking you can know everything about God by reading an ancient book. What a small view of the Divine you have, so little different from men, with emotions like jealousy and wrath. We’re talking about a Being capable of creating this vast universe, and you want to limit this Being to such human traits?

  • David Cromie

    When you condone evil, then you share in it. Have you ever read the OT?

  • David Cromie

    In view of the claim that this ‘god’ created mankind in its own image, it must be a self-hating ‘god’, with a psychotic streak, if it feels the need for mass extinction of its creatures.

  • Kendall Fields

    God is not filled with wrath and jealousy like people are. You have an arrogant view of God if you say you wouldn’t understand him through reading the Bible. At the end of the day his righteousness, busyness, and benevolence shine throughout the Bible.

  • Tiny but fierce

    He flat out SAYS he is jealous and wrathful, unless you don’t take that book seriously.

    I’m saying that Deity is more complicated and vast a Being than can be comprehended by humanity, much less neatly summed up in a 2000 year old book. I think you don’t know the actual meaning of the word arrogant, either, because if you think you can comprehend the Divine, you are filled with arrogance!

  • Kendall Fields

    You miss the point of what he means. His “wrath” is righteous anger against sin and his “jealousy” is that he doesn’t want people worshipping false gods. No it speaks more to your arrogance that you can’t understand who God is.

  • David Cromie

    “God is not filled with wrath and jealousy like people are”. The so-called ‘bible’ says otherwise, and in no uncertain terms.

  • David Cromie

    You seem to think it is all a word game, and by trying to redefine words will give credence to your propensity for superstitious delusion.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope. Mankind is dead in its sins and he is the author of life. You are but a man you have no right to take a life away for an evil reason. God has the right to decide when a person dies and you would know that if you actually read the Bible. He brings those who seek him to him in heaven while those who deny him will face punishment.

  • Tiny but fierce

    I fully accept that I don’t, indeed that as a human, I can’t understand God. It’s you who has the absolute arrogance to think that you’ve got it all figured out. You think you’re so absolutely special that you can understand the Creator of this vast universe, full of billions of galaxies? Okay, go ahead, think I’m the arrogant one!

  • Tiny but fierce

    Well, I am but a woman but that’s beside the point. It’s not a lack of Biblical education, in my case, it’s too much Biblical education. I no longer believe in the God of Abraham, I haven’t for a long time. It’s been fun playing with hypotheticals though.

  • Kendall Fields

    I am not saying I would be able to do the things that God can do. But anyone who truly reads the Bible with a clear mind will be able to understand who God is. In fact that is the main point of the Bible.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure you have. In your case it is more of you being unwilling to understand God.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Yes, I know. Thus my original statement. I couldn’t force myself to worship the God described in the Bible and I wouldn’t try.

  • Kendall Fields

    And because you deny God, you won’t truly see what lies in front of you.

  • David Cromie

    You blithely rave on about what your favourite supposed ‘god’ may and may not do, as the whim takes it. However, you still have not come up with the irrefutable, falsifiable, evidence that it actually exists. Imaginary entities may have any ability you care to ascribe to them, which is very common in faerie tales and legends.

  • Jim Kendall

    That’s the wrong question to ask. The question is: If Christianity were proven true, then would you believe? If you’re not going to believe regardless of the evidence it doesn’t matter if it’s true. You would still believe as you do now.

  • Sandra Craft

    I think that’s still the wrong question. If there’s evidence — real evidence that meets scientific standards — there’s nothing else to do but accept it because that’s what evidence is for. To me the question is would you worship the Xtian god if it were real?

  • David Cromie

    The pertinent question is; Where is the irrefutable, falsifiable, evidence for any supposed supernatural entity?

    Having provided a cogent answer to this question, then we may consider the suitability for worship of whichever entity you deem worthy of being accorded the accolade ‘god’.

  • mobathome

    How much understanding would be provided with the proof? Or would it just be that we would just know it was all true, just like many Christians say they know? If we would just know, then is the OP’s question just another way of asking us to be in their shoes? And does that mean they can see themselves in our shoes?

  • Not shocking all about you is built upon fallacies.

    you are asking reality to fit your emotional state of shame over sin, rather than you basing yourself on reality. Common in those who leave the Church due to sexual sin (it’s ALWAYS sexual sin)

    secondly you seem to be using a materialist view. As I said to another elsewhere, you do so because you feel the material is controllable. you feel that you will be able to control God in this way.

    I imagine the realization that God is the uncreated, uncontingent Prime Mover made you realize your pride was untenable, so you attack God out of the mortal sin of despair in the hopes you make God guilty in your place. All you succeed in is total self-destruction by the sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance of blasphemy.