How To Respond When They Call You A Heretic

How To Respond When They Call You A Heretic October 5, 2018

Everyone is someone’s heretic. At least, that’s my opinion these days. Whenever someone calls you a false teacher or a heretic, what they really mean to say is: “Your theology isn’t the same as mine. I can’t be wrong about anything, therefore you must be a heretic.”

What these people don’t realize is that, to someone else, they are the heretic.

See, Christians disagree on all sorts of things. This is why there are thousands of different denominations around the globe, and across the nation.

Yes, we all use the same Holy Bible. Yes, we all believe that our interpretation of those scriptures is the correct one. Yes, we typically consider those with different theology to be “abhorrent” or “heretical.”

This is precisely why our house church family decided 11 years ago not to adopt any official statement of faith. Because we knew that, historically, every single time Christians attempted to bring unity by establishing doctrine what they actually did was create more division. [See the thousands of different Christian denominations around the globe mentioned earlier].

So, I’m pretty used to being called a heretic. It’s actually why I co-host a podcast with Jamal Jivanjee and Matthew Distefano called “The Heretic Happy Hour” – because we’ve all been called heretics by so many people that it’s starting to become a joke.

A few days ago, my friend and brother in Christ, Ricky, posted this meme above on his Facebook wall. As you can see, it’s pretty dramatic. Plus, it encourages everyone else to label me as a false teacher and a dangerous heretic, too. [Even if they really have no idea why they should do this].

For the record, my friend Ricky considers me a heretic and a false teacher because I don’t accept Penal Substitutionary Atonement Theory [a relatively new theology that only arrived on the scene a few hundred years ago], and also because I don’t agree with his view on homosexuality [he accepts the modern English insertion of the word “homosexual” which was added in 1946, and I reject that political edit in favor of the actual Greek words for “effeminate” and “pedophilia.”]

So, we have a disagreement on theology. That’s ok with me, honestly. I don’t personally believe that Christians need to have agreement on doctrines in order to have unity.

Not only have I experienced this reality for the last 11 years in our house church – where people who disagreed on all sorts of theologies sat side-by-side every week and never argued or divided over doctrines – but I’m convinced that this is what Paul was referring to when he said that our unity was “in Christ” and not in our agreement on theology, or anything else.

For reference:

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:26-28)

The problem is, my friend Ricky believes that I cannot possibly be an actual Christian. Why? Because my view of the atonement is different from his own.

I know that’s pretty crazy, right? But, sadly, it’s the truth.

For him, and sadly for many, many other Christians, the Gospel has become more about having the right information about God. So, if your information about God is different from mine then you are a heretic, and you are also not actually a Christian because you got some of the answers wrong on the theology test I just gave you.

But, the Gospel is NOT about having the right information about God. The Gospel is not about information – it’s about Transformation.

Transformation isn’t dependent upon information. Transformation is what happens when we abide in Christ and Christ abides in us. This can take place independent of the quality or accuracy of the information about God we may have in our brains.

I don’t know about you, but my opinions and doctrines and beliefs about God and other theological ideas have changed over the years. There are things I believe today that I did not believe 5 or 10 years ago. So, whereas my beliefs may fluctuate, my connection to God through Christ never does. It remains constant regardless of my ideas and opinions about theology.

As my friend Joshua Lawson once said: “The funny thing about my worldview is that, no matter how many times it changes, I’m always right.”

Now, my friend Ricky has gone out of his way to smear me. He wants everyone to know what a heretic and dangerous false teacher I am.

How should I respond?

I love him. I pray for him. I genuinely pray and ask the Lord to bless Ricky’s socks off. I pray for his marriage, his children, his finances, his relationships, and his connection to God.

At first, I may not “feel” like doing this, but in obedience to Jesus – who specifically commanded me to do exactly this whenever anyone accuses me, curses me, or seeks to harm me – I simply start to pray for my friend, Ricky.

Eventually, as I pray a blessing over my friend, the Holy Spirit begins to soften my heart, change my attitude, and bring me into alignment with the Father’s heart for Ricky.

God loves Ricky so much it hurts. And as I begin to pray for Ricky, I start to feel that love, too.

So, now I start to pray even harder for my friend. I actually MEAN these words that, earlier, I was only saying in obedience to Christ. Now, I totally share God’s heart for this man and I really, really do want the Lord to bless him in every possible way.

This is how we respond to those who call us heretics and false teachers: we love them.

We do not respond with the same spirit but with the opposite spirit.

Why? Because only love will change the world, and only Christ’s love will change me.

I’m committed to that Gospel of Transformation.

How about you?

**

Keith Giles is a former pastor who left the pulpit 11 years ago to start a church that gives away 100% of the offering to the poor in their community. 

His new book Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible”, is available now on Amazon and features a Foreword by author Brian Zahnd.

He is also the author of the Amazon best-seller, “Jesus Untangled: Crucifying Our Politics To Pledge Allegiance To The Lamb”.

Keith also co-hosts the Heretic Happy Hour Podcast on iTunes and Podbean. He and his wife live in Orange, CA with their two sons.

BONUS: Want to unlock exclusive content including blog articles, short stories, music, podcasts, videos and more? Visit my Patreon page.

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  • Iain Lovejoy

    You’re only saying this because you’re a heretic. [NB – Sarcasm]

  • Happy Noodle Boy

    Benjamin Franklin once said something similar in a letter. He was strongly opposed to any laws against blasphemy, because he saw from his readings of history that far too often a charge of blasphemy did not mean “uttering a verbal insult against God,” but rather “stating a religious belief that a country’s leaders don’t agree with or approve of.”

  • Herm

    her·e·sy
    ˈherəsē/Submit

    noun

    * belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.
    synonyms: dissension, dissent, nonconformity, heterodoxy, unorthodoxy, apostasy, blasphemy, freethinking; there are more…

    * opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.

    As a child of God, I am as free of the deadly stain derived from a judgment of heresy as is my brother Jesus, the Christ. Before I am labeled with any “Scarlet Letter” meant to humiliate me before the fearful of Man, I already carry my cross by the prerequisite set by my one Instructor to be his student (Luke 14:25-27), by my Messiah’s example, and according to my Father’s will.

    Nowhere in scripture have I found anyone accused of blasphemy/heresy by the only judge I trust, my brother Jesus with all authority, everywhere, over children of God on earth and in heaven. In the New Testament the only accused, by the authority of one or another orthodox religious sect’s doctrine, of heresy were my high priest Jesus, his apostles, his disciples, and his followers. No church of Christ’s teaching accused or murdered anyone for the crime of heresy/blasphemy before the introduction of the sword to “Christianity” by Constantine.

    I freely choose to remain only in the unified church (Matthew 16:13-20) administered by Jesus, my high priest forever, whose flock only worships in Spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24) having no physical trappings. I reject all the scattered church sects, by any name or claimed authority, founded on pharisaical/sadducean like orthodox religious doctrine.

    I cannot bring myself to accept the spirit of fear, and the subsequent false judgements over the last 1,900 years, derived from the following scripture as of my Messiah’s teaching, and I don’t have to (heresy?):

    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

    2 Peter 2:1-3 (NIV2011)

    Greek Strong’s Number: 139
    Greek Word: αἵρεσις
    Transliteration: hairesis
    Phonetic Pronunciation:hah’ee-res-is
    Root: from
    Cross Reference: TDNT – 1:180,27
    Part of Speech: n f
    Vine’s Words: Heresy, Sect
    English Words used in KJV:
    sect 5
    heresy 4
    [Total Count: 9]

    from (haireomai); properly a choice, i.e. (special) a party or (abstract) disunion :- heresy [which is the Greek word itself], sect.

    Strong’s Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    Satan is not my teacher. How do I know? Because I asked directly that only my God in heaven, my Father, my Lord and brother Jesus, and the Holy Spirit teach me while keeping me safe from false prophets and teachers, as were the insufficiently righteous Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matthew 5:20), and all was given me perfectly as asked.

    or·tho·dox
    ˈôrTHəˌdäks/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.

    synonyms: conservative, traditional, observant, devout, strict

    2.
    (of a thing) of the ordinary or usual type; normal.

    There is no such thing as an orthodox child of God who is a sibling disciple (student) of the Messiah Jesus.

    Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

    Romans 8:1-2 (NIV2011)

    There is no way, even with full fearless freedom to think and ask any question directly of the one Teacher (Matthew 23:8-12), that a baptized, living with and in the Spirit, disciple of Jesus can be condemned as a heretic, blasphemer, or follower of Satan (Satan may be told to get behind or away, although) by God.

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

    “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

    “Which ones?” he inquired.

    Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    Matthew 19:16-19 (NIV2011)

    “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other.

    John 15:9-17 (NIV2011)

    Consider this an “alter call” of the spirit directed and instructed from the high priest Jesus. Any who find themselves trapped in orthodoxy and traditions of the flesh, who are today blinded by the fear of punishment from heresy or being accused as a student of Satan, please, alone and in all humility open your heart and mind of spirit (your gifted image of God), as like an empty shell new born, know nothing child, to directly (heart to heart, mind to mind) ask God directly to give you your daily bread, to forgive you your debts, to not lead you into temptation and to deliver you from all evil right that moment, and forever more. Open your heart and mind of spirit that you see to accept to be whelmed (baptized) by the Spirit of truth living with and in you forever, without pause, from that moment on.

    I am not the one Teacher, the one Instructor, the one Father for all children of God on earth and in heaven today. I am a very little sibling student of the Messiah, my one Instructor, offering you the way to they who can guide us all into all truth as each of us can uniquely bear for the rest of our inherited eternity. I do not fear being charged with heresy, or as a student of Satan, though I will have the appropriate anguish when charged to mount the cross I carry in love for my accusers and by the will of my Father. I choose, unified in all love, eternal relationship with and in God over any one of the scattered orthodox fellowships. Anyone of those orthodoxies can truly charge me with heresy under the authority of their doctrine. So be it, for nothing will cause me to blaspheme the Spirit of truth I know living with and in me today, in favor of orthodox religions founded only on a study, not a relationship, of God. I am a heretic as is my Christ. You are welcomed to be one, too. You are loved!

  • Herm

    … not unlike my Instructor, the Messiah.

  • I could say the enemies of the faith sure remember how you rolled over, alike kicked mongrels, when some Israeli nutjob insisted celebrating Christmas is suppression, and Anti-Semite. Nowadays even the Pope plays “Islam’s little bitch”, and the eradication of Christians, by scientific hubris & hostile competing religions, is just another cold-war lesson.

    We were arrogant in our goodwill & tolerance, as the friction of society & the millions of personal lives ruined prove. Without God’s support & permission we all are merely outgunned mortals, and that is not a gun control debate while criminals earn record-salaries due selling more automatic weapons.

    God, we all are are unworthy, and evil in our selfish ways. Grant us a chance to turn the tides.We did not mean to turn this planet into a capitalism-crazed purgatory of abuse, environmental toxins, and insane egomaniacs. And God, if it is what it takes to purify creation: The really faithful will accept your call to arms, their own death penalty, and even the not precisely flawless decree on judgment day – amen.

  • Brainless reciting of a religious book long proven faked to mindcontrol the masses of people intended to be enslaved.

  • Herm

    Interesting in your unique presentation, Andrè, though a bit conflicted contrasting your own self centered sufficiency to fulfill God’s call to arms against, “We did not mean to turn this planet into a capitalism-crazed purgatory of abuse, environmental toxins, and insane egomaniacs.” Humility did not become you by admitting “we all are are unworthy, and evil in our selfish ways“, to be followed by, “Grant us a chance to turn the tides“. Sorry to have to use even further “Brainless reciting of a religious book” to quote but, maybe, you didn’t read this part:

    “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

    Matthew 26:52-53 (NIV2011)

    Creation of our physical universe began at least 13.8 billion years ago. The animal species mankind is most likely no older than 200,000 years old, dependent the entire time upon procreation to grow its awareness and influence, through physical uniting of unlike members, who each can survive responsibility to their own awareness and influence for no longer than 120 revolutions of this earth around its dim sun. Don’t you find it worth considering that this is the only species of life on this puny little planet that seems to even care about challenging an apparent awareness of spirit, as verses carnal, life?

    Who do you pray to through the name God? Do you really believe, as your statement of faith beyond what you know today, that God really exists, by any name remaining with no beginning and no end the same in spirit, will explain to you “what it takes to purify creation“? … or are you simply voicing your and/or our complete impotence to be responsible for our, and ours, continued survival?

    Thanks, Andrè, for piping in even though you really haven’t offered any hope whatsoever for the future of mankind, or, as requested, a statement of faith. Criticism can be good (constructive) for all if tempered with love (empathy, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, …) when the critical in everything does to the criticized as the critical would have done to themselves. Any other criticism delivered with unqualified authority is self exaltation.

  • Herm

    Is your hubris supported by any credentials? There are segments of all books penned from sincere spiritual inspiration that can be quoted to support the treatise, pointing to God’s availability for direct teaching and nurture, presented above. I did not point to me or the Bible (quoted here to an audience who reads that book) as the source for all truth as each of us can bear. There is nothing carnal that can teach all the truth to the past with no beginning, today, and beyond to the end of eternity. If you actually read to comprehend what was written above, you would find that any reasoning of mankind forcing subjugation other people by the evil (destructive) spirits of intimidation, manipulation, coercion and self promoting propagandic confusion ends in death. The metaphoric cross I bear is very real in spirit to explain what I am prepared to do in place of wielding a sword to free the enslaved masses. I have witnessed incarcerated inmates of Folsom prison, in heart and mind, become more free embracing the value system of love, without ever their flesh leaving Folsom alive, than when they were outside enslaved by the value system of survival of the fittest determined by the sword, wielded by the evil spirits mentioned here.

    You don’t have to believe me, in fact, I ask that you don’t. If you truly believe that God could exist enough to allow you to talk to him, as you did in your comment before mine, then ask him directly. If you don’t get an answer, then the deity you wrote of just isn’t available to free the enslaved masses.

    I can only testify that God/Allah/the Almighty Deity really does exist to free all the enslaved masses who come to them in humility as little children. Good luck with your judgments and criticism sans solution! You are loved.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    Do what I do: Yawn.

  • Markus R

    Theology matters. It matters to Jesus, who said he will separate the sheep from the goats, and the wheat from the tares.

  • Nimblewill

    We are all heretics according to Roman’s 11:32. For God has consigned all to disobedience………………..

  • Herm

    Markus R, the Good News (Gospel) found in the New Testament of the “Christian” Bible is that you can begin to know all truth, for certain, as you can bear, when filled (baptized) with the Spirit of truth (Holy Spirit, the one Teacher) living with and in you forever [John 14:15-21, 16:12-15]. You will know on that day that Jesus (the Messiah, the one Instructor [Matthew 23:8-12]) is in you and you in him, as well as, the one Father of God is in Jesus.

    For unity in semantics, this is the definition of the word “theology” that I am speaking to:

    the·ol·o·gy
    THēˈäləjē

    noun

    * the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

    * religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.

    If the Caiaphas, an authority of the Sadducean theology, had conversed with the Holy Spirit residing in the Holy of Holies (the curtain before it torn top to bottom at Jesus’ death), which was his right as high priest, do you believe that he would have sentenced Christ to death for the crime of blasphemy because the Messiah accepted to be called the Son of God? Why didn’t the high priest, and his entire council, recognize God in their midst when they had the scripture sufficient to study God enough to even intellectually know how to determine who the Christ was, or was not, most especially if they had the one Teacher who could guide them into all truth as they could bear, the Spirit of truth residing in the Holy of Holies? Why didn’t the Pharisees and teachers of the law (scribes) recognize the carpenter, Jesus of Nazareth, as the prophesied Messiah when each of them were renowned authorities in the study of the nature of God, systematically developed theory derived from an in-depth study of scripture telling of the coming of the Messiah?

    When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    Matthew 25:31-33 (NIV2011)

    Most all of Jesus apostles, disciples and followers (children of God born of the Spirit [John 1:12, 13]) were the sheep, knowingly carrying their cross [Luke 14:25-27] to actually die by the thousands in the name of Jesus, the Christ, did not have the scripture book of Matthew to study the nature of God. What could possibly have possessed them to be that convicted and separate from all those reigning authorities (the goats) blinded by theology and their disciple crowds yelling, “Crucify him without the New Testament to study?

    Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

    Jesus is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’

    Acts 4:8-11 (NIV2011)

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

    There was no scripture resembling the compiled and canonized New Testament available for 300 years, and no way to distribute it then for another 1,100 years to the masses, that you alluded to as why “Theology matters”. How was the Good News taught to “all the nations” in those 300 years?

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV2011)

    I am testifying to you today that 24 years ago I was filled with the Holy Spirit that he will live with and in me forever, promising never to leave me orphaned.

    I am a sibling disciple (student) of my one Instructor, who I know in me and I in him, led as a sheep in only his flock, separated from those who are students (disciples), the goats, in the study of God, administrated by the hundreds of different authoritative schools of the law that are rigidly constrained by pharisaical council agreed upon and enforced theologies, dogmas, creeds, rituals, sacraments, and interpretations.

    This is a Spirit led offering to you, this moment, to know that you are invited to join the flock of Jesus to hear his voice instructing you as is attested to in the New Testament scripture that you partially quote from. I can’t lead you into all truth, I am but a little sibling student of he who can.

    None of the institutionalized carnal authorities in the study of God can lead you into all truth. I know, for I was once a certified, ordained, authority in several different studies of God, of which I can safely testify that none were a knowing relationship in God. I did not know God in me and I in them until I died to 50 years of carnal accomplishments and was reborn anew to begin growing as a child of spirit (spirit is the image of God graced carnal Man) whelmed by the Spirit of truth living with and in me, without pause, without end. On that day I knew Jesus in me and I in him. On that day I knew my Father’s will in me. As with carnal families there is no study necessary, or possible in the beginning, to know parents, and siblings, in the child and the child in them. On that day prayer with and in God for the first time, and so ever since, became continual.

    Pray today, in all the humility of a know nothing little child, inviting God to remove the blinders on the goats of many shepherds leading in the study of God who they have no relationship with and/or in, to become a sheep being led into all truth, as each can bear (nothing to fear from ever again being tested on how much you know from a study of the nature of God), by the one and only Spirit of truth living with and in you forever, as I testify to you that he is with and in me this moment and has been for over 24 years now.

    Did you expect this long and sincere of a response to your statement? God is real, not a study in conjecture, and he (they) divinely love you!

  • Herm

    Christ was truly a heretic to the orthodox Jewish church of Israel, whose reigning authorities sentenced the only begotten Son of God to be crucified in the name of God. All of the Messiah’s disciples, who were killed in the name of God, were heretics. All who judge another as a heretic have not died to the sin of being ruled by their orthodoxy. Romans 11 is only an excerpt, from within a letter “to all in Rome“, that describes Paul’s thoughts supported by his scriptural knowledge, taught him as the Pharisee Saul having Roman citizenship, regarding the state of Israel’s relationship with God, as he saw it.

    Under God’s authority I cannot possibly be considered a heretic, for God has no orthodoxy that I must remain subject to to remain a member.

    or·tho·dox·y
    ˈôrTHəˌdäksēt
    noun
    1.
    authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice.
    “monetarist orthodoxy”
    synonyms: doctrine, belief, conviction, creed, dogma, credo, theory, tenet, teaching
    “Christian orthodoxies”
    2.
    the whole community of Orthodox Jews or Orthodox Christians.

    Only when subject to the authority of institutionalized orthodox churches (like the orthodox Jewish authorities during the Messiah’s ministry on earth), who do not know to subject themselves to God’s authority only, can I be labeled (the ever feared public “Scarlet Letter” of public opinion”) a heretic.

    I have died to orthodoxy and was reborn after having seen to accept the Spirit of truth as my only guide into all truth, as I can bear. I have been set free from all sin as a little adorable child of God, born of the Spirit of truth living with and in me forever. To testified this Way, to you, would be an unforgivable sin, as I know for certain, if it were a lie. I would be held in contempt, by my one judge Jesus, the Christ, with all authority in heaven and on earth for all living children of God, for the one unforgivable trespass of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I will live because, as a child of God filled with the Spirit, I can do no less to fulfill the will of my Father than what is written in Luke 10:27.

    For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

    Romans 6:5-7 (NIV2011)

    You, too, are invited to be freed from all sin, including from the worry of being judged a heretic.

  • Markus R

    Forgive me for saying so but you just laid out a lot of doctrine and dogmatics!

  • It is you insisting to know my plans, and desperate enough to judge my free opinion. I pray, as I please. And that you can’t handle it? Well, you are one of millions, get used not to be seen as center of the universe by anyone else.

  • Interesting, how your need to go sermon was ‘provoked’ by my own, independently placed comment. But thanks, may your benevolence be returned to you tenfold. And yes, nobody is flawless, but it wasn’t me expecting others to stay submissive…

  • But my apologies for being hasty. I shouldn’t have excluded some hints that I mean it factual, not against you. Still it has been decades that nigh-all sourced taught it as wrong to take comments personally. Your need of ego-bashing speaks of insecurity & the assumption that such scores you people (no, only victims). Have faith in both, God and your ability to make your own way, or reach your own goal. Good night.

  • The Mouse Avenger

    Precisely!

  • The Mouse Avenger

    That’s all a lot of baloney, & you know it! >:-(

  • Herm

    Thanks for trying to be so gentle and considerate with me. Perhaps you don’t know the definition of doctrine.

    doc·trine
    ˈdäktrən

    noun

    a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.

    Exactly what set of beliefs are you speaking to, that I laid out, and for which church, political [arty, or group?

    As to dogma I’m really not sure that I spoke to any principles, such as in everything do to your neighbor as you would have your neighbor do to you, as much as just who the authority teaching all truth is in the “Christian” Bible, and who learns from whom. If you are learning from a study of God (theology), rather than a direct relationship with and in God, you are not learning the principles of God directly from God. For the children of God, Jesus, the Christ, is the only authority, not me or any carnal church on earth, with all authority in heaven and on earth to judge incontrovertible truth taught by the Spirit of truth.

    dog·ma
    dôɡmə

    noun

    a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

    Really, Markus R, you should never need any forgiveness for honestly sharing what you know or honestly believe. I truly hope that you actually read to comprehend what I shared before this. It is the truth, as much as I can bear this moment to know, as I know it to be living with and in me today.

  • Herm

    Andrè, your one of millions opinion is duly noted. As a little child of God, whose family has no beginning and will know no end, I had to accept that I “can’t handle it“, as I know of no infant who can, carnal or spirit.

    You wrote,

    I could say the enemies of the faith sure remember how you rolled over, alike kicked mongrels, when some Israeli nutjob insisted celebrating Christmas is suppression, and Anti-Semite. Nowadays even the Pope plays “Islam’s little bitch”, and the eradication of Christians, by scientific hubris & hostile competing religions, is just another cold-war lesson.

    Who is the “you” in “how you rolled over”? … and who is the audience you believe that you are addressing here through your free opinion?

    I have knowledge in relationship, greater than any faith of possibility, that I have reached the plane that I sought to overcome my inadequacies to make my own way for eternity. I no longer live on faith alone since seeing to accept the very real Spirit of truth living with and in me, in a reciprocally knowing relationship forever. I truly do hope you can come to understand the reality of what I am saying, that is in contradiction to your replies. I do have faith, that I cannot prove as fact to my heart and mind of spirit until the end, that my Father will never leave me orphaned.

    In your opinion, what should we do, specifically.

  • Herm

    independently placed comment” might better serve us both if related to as your independently placed reply to my stand alone “Statement of Faith”, as was requested by the moderator.

  • John Gills

    H.L. Mencken once defined ‘orthodoxy as my doxie and heterodoxy as your doxie.’

  • Herm

    Henry knew his American English, thanks.

    doxie

    English

    Noun

    doxie (plural doxies)

    * Alternative form of doxy (sweetheart or mistress)

    * (informal) A dachshund

  • That baloney is scientifically evidenced, and faith needs only god, not a bunch of bible reciting control-freaks.

  • A D

    Markus R,
    The wheat from the tares is in the New Testament itself. Anyone who claims that all of the NT is the inspired Word of God had not read the New Testament deeply and attentive enough. There are contradictions in there, and before you try to defend it by saying that God is not the God of confusion therefore there must be some explanation, to that I would say that there is an explanation, not all the Epistles are written by who they claim to be written by. There is a hierarchy in the scriptures and the Gospels that speak of Jesus and His words are at the top. The later Epistles of the second and third Paul contradict and make void some of the doctrines the authentic Paul laid forth. This is one major reason why there are so many denominations out there. I personally choose to follow the teachings as put forth in the Book of James because I find that it has captured both Jesus and the authentic Paul in one short but powerful Epistal. The authentic Paul did away with the legalistic Jobs of the Torah, not with the Ethics of the Torah. That is why loving your neighbor as you love yourself fulfills the whole of the Law. The Ethics of the Torah is spelt out in all of Jesus parables, in the Beautities, in giving to the poor, orphans, and widows and in acts and works of kindness towards others done out of love. James sums it up pretty well and was written as a response to the type of “faith” as in head knowledge only that appear in Ephesians and elsewhere.

  • Markus R

    :-). I have to smile at the idea that the church fathers such as Augustine of Hippo. Tomas Aquinus, and John Calvin did not read the scriptures deeply and richly enough! Or that the fathers at the Council of Nicaea and the antenicean fathers were so illiterate in the original languages that they could not deduce the authorship of almost every New Testament book. Do you realize how arrogant your statements are in light of the scholarship that has occurred over 2000 years?

  • A D

    I have to smile because Constantine had to force the Bishops to make the Council of Nicaea because they could not agree on important points of doctrine due to the contradictions in the Epistles and were fighting each other for decades prior. Constantine said that the Bishops were possessed of the devil, greedy for power, and were causing civil unrest in the populations on account of their doctrinal fights, even over the smallest things. I have to laugh that a man like John Calvin made up a doctrine that was unheard of before and burned other Christians to death on green wood on account of it. Then there is the beautiful Tomas Aquinus who was so enlightened in his ability to judge the scriptures that he declared that a husband should beat his wife until he rips her flesh open because a man is to love his wife as his own body, and afterall, men discipline their own bodies. Don’t even get me started on Augustine of Hippo! The “scholarship that has occurred over 2000 years” all point to forged Epistals and contradictions. Have you even read anything from a textual scholar of the NT?

  • A D

    By the way, Martin Luther wanted to remove the Book of James out of the New Testament because he admitted it contradicted with other Epistles, and with his faith only theology. I recommend you read and study what really happened at the Council of Nicaea, and what led up to it, and how long it actually took because no one could agree on anything.

  • Markus R

    You must be the author of that classical book Historia Eglesia Ad Hominem. But at least you are consistent—you take the same approach to history as you do to scripture.

  • A D

    LOL, can you actually refute a thing I have said with facts? I suggest you educate yourself a little with church history, find out what quality of character and mental state the church fathers had. Most of them were deranged, only christians keep making excuses for them.

  • I experienced Jesus Christ as the consciousness of the Sun. I wrote an ebook
    about my experiences which is available to download in pdf form and is
    also available on blogger, links are below

    link to my free ebook, “Messages from the Sun God, Jesus Christ”
    http://www.mediafire.com/fi

    link to the ebook on blogger: https://messagesftsg.blogsp

    blog http://www.jesuschristsungod.com

  • Eireanne Russ

    HMMM> Jesus was called a heretic, so when someone calls me one, I say thank you. Then love them the way Jesus did.

    Besides the world has always changed and won by heretics. If everyone followed the orthodoxy in anything, there would never be change.

  • Linnea912

    I remember reading somewhere that the original meaning of a heretic was one who made up their own mind. So if anyone calls me a heretic, I consider it a compliment!

  • Chari McCauley

    faith needs only god, not a bunch of bible reciting control-freaks.

    You do…indeed…have a point there.
    Who can teach us better about Father than Himself, or a Son Who was raised by Father?
    Thus the parable His Son taught. The Lord was NOT FORCED to come here; He volunteered.
    The parable, I sent my servants and they killed them. Maybe, if I allow my Son to go, they will listen to Him.
    People seem to think Father is all by Himself. There is…indeed…only one Father, He and His Son are each as individual as Father made sure each of us is. He is not all by Himself. Only 1/3 of His angellic children were lost. Father is adored, and He knows who is sincere.

  • Chari McCauley

    Because they all strayed from the original ten hand-written…IN STONE.

    There are two spirit’s in our bibles, because our Father will show us the why for His instruction.
    The ten were universal and all inclusive, It took four books of ammending Father’s ten to get around those ten.

    The story of Job showed us the two spirits, one spirit want you to LIVE, and be fruitful and creative.
    The other spirit is so jealous of Father’s love for us that when they challenged Father…those jealousn sons will not admit that the, too had a “hedge around them” while being raised by Father.

    NO jealous god can fill the body of My Father. But, He is still trying to save them. The last will be first; and we will be there to see some of the first children He lost brought home. The prodigal’s Son tells us how happy both Father and His Son will be to bring them home.

  • A D

    “There are two spirit’s in our bibles” WOW, I came to the same conclusion this past two weeks. I was seriously taking long drives every evening and grieving over the condition of things for the past 1900 years! Our history is so bloody and wicked. Most of the persecutions of the past were against those who lived like Jesus said to and followed principles from the book of James. The wickedness done against women by the earliest Church Fathers to the preset is unspeakable! In Paul’s original letters there was no subordination of wives and slaves. Even the household codes in Colossians are interpolations. God did not set up a Christ and the Church model for marriage in Genesis 1 and 2. Adam never said a man would leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife because were are members of the body and bones of Christ! When Adam proclaimed what he did, it was a show of intense unity and equality between man and woman, not a mystical christological hierarchy between a head as man and body as woman. Male headship in this way is simply not natural. What ends up happening is that women bear the same burdens on their back as their husband, they contribute the same efforts, time and money, they do all of the garbage work around the house, they are co-creators of life, and when it comes time to enjoy the fruit of their labor, the husband takes all. All privileges of having choice and government in life is taken away. Even mini decision making for our own children is removed from us as mothers! So we are equals in effort, ability, contribution, and risk, but never allowed the fruit of our labor all under the disguise of the husband “leading.” Clean the house all day and serve non-stop, and when it comes time to buy a toaster or anything at all, we find out that it is the husbands job/privilege to make those decisions because of some babble about Christ and the Church. The same with income, Proverbs 31 says that she is worthy of the fruit of her labor, give her her due share of the work of her hands, yet because of Eph 5, husbands confiscate the whole paycheck of a wife and she ends up having to coward down to him and beg him for 20 dollars of her own money to buy herself something. They provide their wives nothing but crumbs for survival and then expect gratitude in return even though the wife earned it so it is no “provision.” It is just theft wrapped in theological paper. They tell us that upon marriage we will be relieved of the burden of ever making a decision again in life, even in the smallest things! Yes, having any choice in life and freedom to use our own judgment is such a burden! Thank god for the christ-husband who delivers us from suck a yoke!