Dear White American Jesus [Guest Post by Kenly Stewart]

Dear White American Jesus [Guest Post by Kenly Stewart] July 23, 2019

One of the most important theological/Christological statements I’ve ever read comes from Khalil Gibran, the Lebanese-American poet and Maronite Christian:

“Once every hundred years Jesus of Nazareth meets Jesus of the Christian in a garden among the hills of Lebanon. And they talk long; and each time Jesus of Nazareth goes away saying to Jesus of the Christian, “My friend, I fear we shall never, never agree.”

Taking the above as my inspiration I offer the following:

Frequently throughout American history, the Jesus of White America meets The Jesus of Immigrants and Refugees, who says to him:

“My brother why do you deny me entry? Can you not see my wounds, some that you caused? Why build a wall to keep us out? When did you begin to proclaim Lord Caesar instead of Lord Christ?”

The Jesus of White America also meets his oldest companion, the Jesus of Black America who says to him:

“My brother when will you finally let my people go? Was one crucifixion not enough? Why crucify young Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and countless others? Why do you care more for a flag, than the broken black/brown bodies that prop it up?”

The Jesus of White America is then confronted by the Jesus of Africa, South America, and Colonized Persons Everywhere who says to him:

“My friend when will you stop exploiting us? When will you stop stealing from us? When will we get our land back? Why not redeem yourself and seek forgiveness for your transgressions towards us ? Our children are sick, hungry, and dying. Are the tears of their mother’s less than yours? You can fund wars and launch drones but not bake bread? I know not what is worse, your abuse or indifference.”

Finally, the Jesus of White America is confronted with the overlooked but original Jesus, the Jesus of Palestine:

“My friend why do you ban Muslims, don’t you know they love me too ? Can’t you see hatred of the Other leads to the Cross? You moved your embassy to Jerusalem, but continue to turn your back on Bethlehem because it rests on the West Bank?”

And what can the Jesus of White America do but hold his head down in shame? Does he have the deluded hope that his hat will hide his identity?

Why follow a red hat but not the words written in red?

The questions have been asked. Now we wait for a response.

by Kenly Stewart

**

Keith Giles was formerly a licensed and ordained minister who walked away from organized church 11 years ago, to start a home fellowship that gave away 100% of the offering to the poor in the community. Today, He and his wife live in Meridian, Idaho, awaiting their next adventure.

Upcoming Event: July 27-28 “Unleashing the Word of God” [With Richard Murray] – FREE! – Woodstock, GA

Keith’s newest book, “Jesus Unveiled: Forsaking Church As We Know It For Ekklesia As God Intended” released on June 9, 2019 on Amazon, and features a Foreword by author Richard Jacobson.
Keith’s Podcast: Heretic Happy Hour Podcast is on iTunes and Podbean. 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Herm

    Can’t you see hatred of the Other leads to the cross?

    Luke 14:25-27
    Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: [26] “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. [27] And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    The living Jesus recognized in me and I in him, with all authority in heaven and on earth, continues to insist that his sibling students hate familial, national and religious allegiance over the allegiance to trust in the love of our perfect Father, who loves all children of Man, all his merciful neighbors,
    all his self-centered enemies and all of his children born of God. All of our Father in heaven’s children, on earth, are called to pick up their own cross in love of all others of mankind. All children of God choose to serve all others first as they would have all others serve them, regardless of family, nation or religion of birth or adoption.

    There is a wall between authoritative relationships of Man, of which there are a differing many, and the single authoritative relationship in God. The single gate to enter life from mortal carnal childhood of Man into eternal spirit childhood of God is to love the Lord our God with all our spirit heart, with all our spirit soul, with all our spirit strength, with all our spirit mind (each the image of God made in each of mankind) and that we each love our other (of family, nation and religion) merciful neighbor as we do ourself. Only the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, can possibly guide children of Man along the road and through the gate to live as a child of God, sister or brother of Jesus the Christ, the Son of God begotten by Man through the Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    John 14:15-17
    “If you love me, keep my commands. [16] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— [17] the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

  • Perhaps because wanting to come does not come with an invitation.

  • Ted Firch

    Wow. That said it all in a very few words.

  • As all of the artist portrayals here indicate, we tend to envision Jesus very much in the image that fits our cultural heritage. This is not in itself a problem but only becomes a problem if and when we refuse to stretch our initial mental images to increasingly include all of humanity; which, of course, is what the image of Jesus should ideally be, an image inclusive of all human beings, der Jedermann.

  • Herm

    Bob, if we listen with our carnal ears, in the image of Man, to our families/communities of birth we hear in our brain an invitation and way to each tribe who values us. If we listen with our spirit heart and mind, in the image of God, we hear in our soul the invitation to accept to live eternally with and in the Holy Spirit, as is Jesus the Christ and our Father in heaven living with and in the Spirit of truth.

    To become a child of God, a sibling student of the only begotten Son of God, it is not an invitation to pick up your own cross, it is a prerequisite.

  • JD
  • Jesusismyquarterback

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-”

    That is mistranslated….In the Greek the phrase is “love less” not “hate”

  • Herm

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
    Luke 14:26 (NIV2011)

    Greek Strong’s Number: 3404
    Greek Word: μισέω
    Transliteration: miseō
    Phonetic Pronunciation:mis-eh’-o
    Root: from a primary misos (hatred)
    Cross Reference: TDNT – 4:683,597
    Part of Speech: v
    Vine’s Words: Hate, Hateful, Hater, Hatred
    Usage Notes:
    English Words used in KJV:
    hate 41
    hateful 1
    [Total Count: 42]
    from a primary misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less :- hate (-ful).
    Strong’s Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    The same miseō is written in John 12:25…

    Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
    John 12:25 (NIV2011)

    A like sentiment is written in Matthew 10:37 that is expressed more like your suggestion “love less”.

    “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Matthew 10:37 (NIV2011)

    Greek Strong’s Number: 5228
    Greek Word: ὑπέρ
    Transliteration: hyper
    Phonetic Pronunciation:hoop-er’
    Root: a primary preposition
    Cross Reference: TDNT – 8:507,1228
    Part of Speech: prep
    Vine’s Words: Abundance, Abundant, Abundantly, Abound, Behalf, More
    Usage Notes:
    English Words used in KJV:
    for 104
    of 12
    above 12
    for (one’s) sake 8
    on (one’s) behalf 3
    more than 3
    in (one’s) stead 2
    than 2
    very chiefest + 2
    beyond 1
    to 1
    over 1
    more 1
    exceedingly abundantly + + 1
    exceedingly + + 1
    very highly + + 1
    miscellaneous translations 5
    [Total Count: 160]
    a primary preposition; “over”, i.e. (with the generic) of place, above, beyond, across, or causal, for the sake of, instead, regarding; with the accusative superior to, more than :- (+ exceeding abundantly) above, in (on) behalf of, beyond, by, + very chiefest, concerning, exceeding (above, -ly), for, + very highly, more (than), of, over, on the part of, for sake of, in stead, than, to (-ward), very. In comparative it retains many of the above applications.
    Strong’s Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    Jesusismyquarterback, thank you for choosing to help us out. The only reason I use biblical references, to share my relationship with and in the Spirit of truth, as a little kindergarten student of my brother Jesus, is because I’ve been where you are, and it is good. There is more to your sought eternal journey when you find the narrow gate.

    I recently wrote the following in a different thread (the next article following this one);

    Mark 4:10-12
    When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. [11] He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables [12] so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ ”

    Luke 8:9-10
    His disciples asked him what this parable meant. [10] He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “ ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’

    There is only one Teacher for students of Jesus the Christ. All orthodox teachers, such as in…

    Matthew 23:1-8
    Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: [2] “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. [3] So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. [4] They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. [5] “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; [6] they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; [7] they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. [8] “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

    … are not the source in the Spirit of truth.

    The only source for truth is the Spirit of truth, the one Teacher (Matthew 23:8), another advocate of God, expressing exactly what Jesus and our heavenly Father say. All the authors of the New Testament testified as they understood their relationship with God nearly 2 millennium ago, each in their own differing presentations. The really good news is that Jesus does live, today, with all authority in heaven and on earth, and has actively has for the last 1,989 years. This is real and there is only one church for all children of Man born of God. That church is administered more than sufficiently by our one high priest in each of us and each of us in him.

    “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
    John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

    Accept to let your relationship as a child of God, brother or sister of Jesus the Christ, be direct with and in God as is Jesus and our Father with and in the Spirit of truth. Come out of the corporate carnal “Christian” church patterned after the structure administered by the high priest Caiaphas.

    Love you and thanks, again.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    That very verse represents what is happening today, in our own country. While we may still “love” those who have chosen the Dark Side over the Gospel of Christ, in choosing evil spirit of TЯ

  • billwald

    The sales pitch of every heterodox Christian denomination is, “We must be the real Christians because all the unrighteous, fake Christians hate us.”

  • Herm

    Who determines with certainty that any human tradition of conformity, or non-conformity, is the truth?

  • soter phile

    incisive and (sometimes) accurate critique of White conservative American Jesus…
    conspicuously absent: a critique of White liberal American Jesus.

  • soter phile

    It’s only wrong when white conservatives jettison Jesus for a self-projection… according to the blog entry.

  • soter phile

    because God said “make me in your own image”, right?
    and the quintessential humanist gospel is “your savior is you.”

    too bad both of those sentiments are the direct antithesis of the Gospel Jesus preached.

  • Well, I don’t know with whom you are having a discussion here, but it certainly isn’t me.

  • Harald

    This is racist garbage that seeks to separate people by race instead of unifying them under the teachings of Jesus. This person seeks to use Christianity as a weapon to destroy Christianity itself. The article is a denial of the immeasurable good that Christianity has done over centuries. It denies the central role that it played in the freeing of the slaves in America and the freeing of all mankind regardless of race. It seeks to sensitize people to race and elevate their sense of separation by tribe over their unity as children of God…in other words, it is Machiavellian leftism.

  • nydiva

    Who knows what Jesus preached if anything. Jesus may have been a historical figure, but the gospel are not historical writings. It’s theological story telling. O Yes, where can I find this “quintessential humanist gospel?”

    I’m a humanist and there is no god that will help us but us. Much like during the Black Plague that killed millions in Europe before people discovered that faith and prayer would not heal them, but finding out what cause the disease and applying scientific remedies.

  • soter phile

    you said: I’m a humanist and there is no god that will help us but us.
    as i said, the quintessential humanist gospel = “your savior is you.”
    Thanks for the (apparently) unintentional confirmation.

    as for “who knows what Jesus preached…” your accompanying paragraph jettisons all known scholarship, including the earliest, most well-attested documents (i.e., the Gospels). that says more about your inability/refusal to engage the scholarship than it does about history itself.

    and your scientific non-sequitur conveniently forgets that most of the leading scientists in the West were Christians. You might as well point at Galileo (like so many do) & forget that Galileo remained a devout believer to his dying day. You can’t eat your cake & have it, too.

  • fractal

    So,

    A woman Jesus wouldn’t be a problem for you?

  • fractal

    I finally blocked him.
    He picks fights and gives you two impossible choices to choose from; the choices he articulates.

  • fractal

    Sorry Herm,

    My deep quite voice within said no such thing.

  • fractal

    Interesting.

    Your view of heaven is that it has a “narrow gate”.
    My view is that there is more ways to the Goddess than there are rays of the sun.
    She too, desires us!

  • MurphsLaw

    It’s amazing the lengths white liberals try to use black people and Hispanics to continue their dominance over their ability to allow them to think for themselves.
    The idea that minorities are incapable of being socially conservative is more racist than what the fraud propaganda media Is trying to hang trump with……
    Truth and light…..lol

  • nydiva

    I did reply, but was censored.

  • LWTBP

    Go ahead, have your woman Jesus. I’ll have my male Jesus.

  • soter phile

    sorry, Ricky Bobby. Jesus is not whatever my culture tells me.
    God made us in his image – not the other way around.

    and inclusion only applies on Jesus’ terms… the same Jesus who insisted to the Samaritan woman (who wanted worship on her faith’s terms) salvation is from the Jews.

    a self-projected god is a fabrication that helps no one.

  • soter phile

    “nit-picky stuff” like who Jesus is.
    you know… just the centerpiece of the faith… no biggie…

  • Wow. Not only are you discussing pretty much exclusively with voices in your own head, not with me, you have absolutely no understanding at all of the meaning of the inclusion of various Samaritan characters in the Gospel stories – which is just about 180 degrees opposite of what you say here.

  • Herm

    Don’t be sorry, fractal. Your honest awareness is what you have to work with. Your heart, soul, strength, mind of spirit is yours to recognize or ignore. Mine is on the surface and cannot be equated with some sort of carnal “quiet voice”. Sense of relationship with and in spirit has no dependency upon ears, mouth, eyes or neural receptors. I wish you well.

  • soter phile

    Yes, Samaritans were included. Yes, it was jarring for Jews.
    No, Jesus did not say “for Samaritans, I become a Samaritan messiah.”

    He said: salvation is from the Jews. For people who care to know the real Jesus – and how ultimate inclusion comes only on his terms – that matters.

    A “jesus” remade in my own image is utterly divorced from reality – and helps no one.

  • Herm

    Good luck with that. God is a spirit plurality without any sexual gender dependency to propagate the species, as spirit awareness and influence needs no carnal boundaries of dimensions such as length, width, depth, beginnings or endings. Life in spirit is eternal. Life in carnal is temporal.

    My Father in heaven is neither male nor female, simply parental.

  • fractal

    Then why insist on calling him FATHER?

    Don’t you know what you miss, by not acknowledging and developing a relationship with the Divine Feminine?

    And tell me,
    If your whole life, you only heard of Goddess referred to as She and Her—over and over again—Mother, Goddess, She, Her.
    Wouldn’t you subconsciously begin to think of yourself as “lesser”, because Goddess is Always Referred to in the Feminine?

    And when you objected, and said “How about God in the masculine?”, you were patted on the head, and told: “Sure, Goddess is both male and female—SheSheShe, HerHerHer, MotherMotherMother…”

    And when you objected further, desiring some kind of connection with the Sacred that acknowledges your gender, you are told:

    “Goddess Wants us to only call Her in the Feminine, because that is the way it is in our Holy Book—get over yourself—GoddessGoddessGoddess, SheSheShe, HerHerHer…

    For Your Whole Life. Over and over. Every day.
    Goddess Goddess Goddess—Don’t you call Her God!!!

    Do you not see the damage it would cause you as a man?

  • fractal

    Yes,

    The crusades and inquisition did “immeasurable good”, as does the sexual abuse of children and nuns by clergy.
    Sweetie, Christianity didn’t save anyone from anything.
    People save themselves and others from oppression.

    I came of age in the Sixties, and my alternative culture led the way in refusing to tolerate hate speech and racism in our midst, as well as being open to mixed marriages, integration and affirmative action.
    My first home away from my Wonder Bread youth was deep in the inner-city, where we were the “White Hippies” of the neighborhood— we all got along great.

    And none of us considered ourselves Christian!

    Meanwhile, good Christians were still telling us racist lies, preaching segregation from the pulpit, and physically attacking us for having good relationships with people of color.

  • fractal

    Perhaps the Truth is much bigger than the rational mind can comprehend.

  • fractal

    I find that sad.

    The Abrahamic Triad has managed to mentally sever the union between consciousness and material reality—and it has caused enormous suffering.

    Goddess does not create the way humans do, with hammer and nails—standing back and staring at Her composition, which is separate from Herself.
    Goddess creates by immanence—coming thru creation, as it is a part of Her which is forever becoming…

    There is no separation between the Sacred and profane/carnal.
    That abstraction happened as the result of dualistic thinking—this or that, yes or no, good or evil, etc…
    Dualistic thinking compartmentalizes and divides—the opposite of what Grace does. It works well for science, but not the correct tool for apprehending the Spirit of Unity and harmony.

    There is no such split as consciousness expands and one finds the spark of Divinity within.

    Finding the spark however, rests upon opening yourself to your unconscious mind—the doorway into worlds unfathomable to the linear mindset.

    As long as the Abrahamic Triad scares people away from this approach with the !!!ooga booga!!! fear of Satan and Demons, they will rely on dogma and Church hierarchy instead of their intuitive intelligence, to find Goddess.

    There is no separation between consciousness and matter, God and creation.

    Where can I go and not find Goddess?
    She is everywhere I look!

  • fractal

    Unless you are an oppressed person—you wouldn’t understand.
    Unless you put yourself in the shoes of another.
    Which you are demonstrating, you are disinclined to do.
    I think we all know why…

    I laugh when I hear Anti-Choicers say that Black women are being oppressed by abortion—the ultimate “think for yourself” issue.

  • Harald

    …and there you have it. The true motives are on display. For better confirmation, I could not have asked.

  • Herm

    Earthling perception is bound solely by “down-to-earth” rationale utilizing physical senses of touch, smell, taste, sight and hearing for confirmation. None of mankind knows all the truth of just this earth, much less of that which is beyond those senses. The individual body in spirit perceives only in heart and mind having no carnal body nerve endings, nose, tongue, eyes or ears.

    God knows the truth to this moment and will continue to know the truth for each moment until the end of eternity. God, by any name given by mankind, is spirit capable of occupying all there is to this moment recorded in Their soul to share, as each of us is ready, Their grace through strength of bonded love for those made in Their image, which is spirit, not physical.

    None of us, of Man, can have a rational conversation seeking truth with them, of God, using physical words designed for eyes, ears and mouth. Eternal truth, having no beginning and no end, can only be shared with hearts of spirit within hearts of spirit, and minds of spirit within minds of spirit. Until children of mankind, made in the image of God, become aware of, and exercise, and be responsible to, their grace spirit they cannot begin to glean the truth from they who are aware of, and can influence, all there is to this moment within the spectrum of eternity.

  • soter phile

    18.5M African American babies aborted since Roe v Wade.
    That’s almost half the current US total for that demographic (~43M). Incredibly disproportionate.

    When you see such disproportionate numbers in prison, we rightly cry “injustice!”
    Calling it a “think for yourself” issue is delusional – if not outright insulting.

  • fractal

    Obtuse ooga booga.

  • fractal

    I am of womankind.

  • Herm

    great! so?

  • fractal

    Your whole post is about “man” and “God”.
    I am not make in the image of your “God”, as I am not a man.
    Therefore,

    Not my purview.

    I do find it interesting that you chose to respond to this post, and ignored my others to you which were much more meaningful.

  • Herm

    You are so hung up with becoming equal to superior in sex and gender you cannot move from solely carnal competition to spiritual unity. There is no propagation, like with temporal carnal human species, requiring the uniting of “opposite” organs of living members before their dying elements return to the earth, necessary to sustain and/or grow the eternally united living body of members with and in themselves soley of spirit.

    I have no allegiance to either a patriarchy or matriarchy. My allegiance is purely to the progressive good of the entire carnal human body that I was born a member of, by no choice of my own, … and, to the family of God, having no beginning or end, that I accepted the invitation to be born into as an eternal member with and in the Spirit of truth.

    In all things, I do to all others (female, male, asexual, etc.) of human kind and of spirit kind as I would have all others do to me.

    I did respond, at length, to your other posts but those responses are “Pending” Keith’s evaluation for reasons I do not know.

  • Herm

    man
    /man/
    noun
    1.
    an adult human male.
    “a small man with mischievous eyes”
    synonyms: male, adult male, gentleman, youth; More
    2.
    a human being of either sex; a person.

    “God cares for all races and all men”
    synonyms: human being, human, person, mortal, individual, personage, soul
    “all men are mortal”

    Matthew 16:15-16 NIV
    “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” [16] Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

    Mark 10:45 NIV
    For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

    My “whole post” is about the single plurality “Man” (female, male and asexual) as human kind relative to the single plurality “God” (female, male and asexual).

  • fractal

    Where was that “plurality of ‘Man'” when the constitution was written?
    Where is it now in the hierarchy of family and Church?

    Why do Abrahamic Triad members hyperventilate and start squealing with fright when Goddess is referred to in the Divine Feminine?

    It is a LIE that “man” refers to both genders.
    One that makes people feel better, until they realize they have been suckered.

  • fractal

    How convenient that you don’t need an allegiance; it has already been done for you, and as a male, to your advantage.

    In a spiritual body, the union of active and receptive principle still holds; which is somewhat erroneously and glibly referred to as male/female gender on the material plane.

    As long as there are gendered roles and qualities assigned, people will be oppressed, most especially women. It is the only way men can treat women as property.
    You are Sapien; it is part of your spiritual path; why not take the coursework?
    Be fully human while you are here, and feel what each principle has to offer; put yourself in the place of those who have the “complementary” role—and dissolve the compliment.

    Learn to appreciate and embrace both the active and receptive principle in your human life, and your spiritual work will be much easier.
    The only way to go past assigned qualities and gender, is to go thru them, and learn the lessons both have to teach.

    How often do you ever think of Goddess in the Feminine?
    When do you allow the Divine Mother to nurture you?
    Pray and humble yourself to a woman icon?

    I bet you even think that Holy Spirit dove is a boy dove.

  • Herm

    I am not a member of a Christian, Jewish, or Muslim corporate church. I did not write, “all men are created equal”, though at the time it was written the “men” could have been meant to mean all of Man. Today, I would write a true Declaration of Independence for all of Man as equal in the love of their living God. Are you bitter because you were born into an ignorant, short sighted, chaotic, too often self-centered, too often destructive and too often competitive rather than supportive species of life? If so why do you fight the war of equality through accusation rather than education?

    We are only equal from the potential of each our differences. We are not equal from our sameness, as no one is the same, nor has been, nor ever will be. All of us, in this physically shared world, are subject to play the cards were dealt, even though too many see nothing wrong with a few stuck up their sleeves, men and women.

    You aren’t going to win by taking your limited and valuable opportunity to have any choice over the usage of the peculiar awareness and influence, on this earth, that is you. There are potentially infinitely more lives that never will be than are. You are rare, savor it, don’t squander it.

    It is not a lie that the word “Man” can refer to all of huMAN kind. The definition offered you is a direct quote describing the fully accepted meaning of the noun “man”. Sorry, but that is a card you have been dealt and cannot be ignored to suit your fancy.

  • Herm

    You are Sapien; it is part of your spiritual path; why not take the coursework?

    Thank you for your assumption that I am wise. I wonder, although, why you assume I am not wise enough to have sought formal education(?).

    It is true that I in no way “Pray and humble” myself before any icon. My God is a divine nurturing family made up of all forms of gender, none dependent upon carnal organs to support my healthy spiritual growth. I am treated as a beloved child of my family of God. We do not pray to one another as we converse with and in one another as a family with all love for one another. Humility is easy to accept when we realize there is nothing worth competing for, especially time as there is no limit of time to come. All my needs are provided for when I am ready. All in and of God serve each other in humility as they are able. Little children of God, as I am one, are not born into God to serve (as each has only their immature and inexperienced uniqueness to offer) God but are accepted wholly to be served by an infinitely capable, humble and loving family. Even children of Man are not born to serve their family, as they have nothing but their needs to offer at birth, but to be served by their family that one day they might serve to sustain mankind.

    I live with and in the Holy Spirit, today through eternity, as does Jesus the Christ, born a son of Man, now the child of God with all authority on earth and in heaven, given by our heavenly Parent, who, also, lives with and in the Holy Spirit for all time.

    You lost your bet.

  • fractal

    Keep pretending that your POV and religion aren’t oppressive and misogynistic.
    See how Goddess feels about that when you actually meet Her.

  • Herm

    Why not take your “coursework”? … please!

    You’re wasting your time here. It’s true that under Constantine’s sponsorship, the only Christ chronicles canonized were selected to protect patriarchal corporate church rule. Read “The Secret Book of John” if you wish to understand a fuller sense of spiritual as best as can be expressed in the words of mankind, or “The Gospel of Mary”.

    The entire experience of life on earth is going to be oppressive, gravity sucks. My point of view truly does treat all others of mankind as I would have all others treat me. I don’t have a religion. I have a relationship with and in God directly. There is nothing physical that can prevent that for you if your heart and mind of spirit is open. I have met God (who is neither male nor female, but is a family inclusive of all) and have accepted to live with and in God forever more.

    You speak of your deity as though she was a carnal person. You don’t understand that carnal cannot live eternal. God is spirit and only spirit has no beginning and no end.

    God is not to be feared as you threaten my supposed ignorance with the wrath of your fantasy “Goddess” of fractal. Good luck!

  • fractal

    Why do you keep referring to “God” as a male, if you believe that Goddess is neither female or male?

    If Goddess is neither, than why not use the Feminine pronoun?
    And why would my using the Feminine pronoun mean that Goddess is a fantasy?
    Shouldn’t either pronoun be equally correct, if both are equally irrelevant, considering your belief that Goddess is beyond gender?

    Why do you keep dodging this question?

  • fractal

    I would like for you to actually respond to the post I made below.

  • fractal

    I would like you to respond to my post below.
    Why are you intent on ignoring it?

  • Herm

    You simply refuse to comprehend what I write to you. I have not referred to God as a male. I have referred to God as them or they including feminine, masculine and/or two spirits of gender. I have not dodged anything. What gender do you refer to a family? I honor the authority of my Mother and Father of God equally.

    Your using the word “Goddess” is clearly feminine and not the God spoken here which includes all children of God; brothers, sisters, mother and father at minimum of familial relationship. God does not propagate sexually and does not have any inequality between male (sperm donor) and female (egg donor). Spirit life does not have upper body strength or weaker sexes.

  • Herm

    I did … tap on my picture, scroll down and you should find two “pending” responses to your comments. This I told you before.

  • Herm

    There is no post showing on my screen below from you. The next post is from MurphsLaw.

  • RowdyHoo

    Fractal, you have a logical point. I’ve contemplated that issue for most of my adult Christian life. I too believe that there is one God and many ways to that God, that God is gender-neutral, and that referring to God as “him” originates from the seemingly ever existent patriarchal culture, from which nearly all of today’s culture derived. It is also a limit of our language as it does not seem appropriate to refer to God as “It” or any similar pronoun. I also agree that having a God’s false-maleness reinforced over and over is unfair and frustrating to you and many others. I do hope that maybe you find some solace in the fact that that believe there are many that feel like I do but do not know how to correct that language limitation, and simply fall back to cultural habitual of calling It, Him. Which is not correct or fair.

  • fractal

    I don’t see that on my screen, just like you don’t see my pending responses on yours—do you?

  • fractal

    Try calling “God” (which in our culture automatically means MALE) Goddess for one month.
    Refer to Her in the Feminine only—as the Mother (or try the Sufi approach and refer to Her as your Beloved!), and consider Her qualities with that viewpoint.
    Correct yourself mentally when you slip; think of how She birthed you and universe and that She loves us unconditionally, as a Mother would.

    You will be amazed at the difference in your spiritual POV.

    It would be easy enough to correct that language limitation—simply make both terms equally correct.
    But Nooooooooooo—
    People start screeching about Heresy and False Gods…

    There is a dark and ugly underbelly to this Absolute Insistence that we view Goddess as always Male, even with the apologist caveat that “really, HE is beyond gender—but don’t call Him Her—that is Idolatry!”

    The truth is, we all anthropomorphize Divinity; we Say we know Mother Goddess is not gendered, but really, deep down, we all have been taught an inner template which includes gender, and that means “Man”.

    To be that anxious and angry about viewing Goddess as Female, as to accuse another of Heresy, being an Apostate etc… simply unwraps the disdain and disrespectful viewpoints of the Abrahamic Triad toward women and the Sacred Feminine.

    This is about misogyny and patriarchy, pure and simple.

  • Herm

    You’re right, I see no pending responses on yours. I have no clue as what tripped the auto pending and why Keith has not addressed them. I have never had a pending comment before.

  • Chari McCauley

    Thus the words “love less” not to stop loving them. Neither The Son, nor His Father or His Mother (Genesis 1:26, Romans 1:20) ever stop loving the fallen ones.

  • RowdyHoo

    Possibly I am misreading your reply. I beleive that I agreed with your point. Your recent reply seems to have missed that?

  • fractal

    No,

    Just an added suggestion and more commentary…

  • RowdyHoo

    My experiance has shown me that we are all (me included) hypocrites at a certain level. We all are self-delusional too a point and only through conversations with those who we truly trust, who think think different that ourselves and who will call us out on our BS, can we whittle down that delusion over time.

  • fractal

    True.
    But some hypocrisy has more impact and does more damage.