Quoting Quiverfull: Lesbian Sex is Like Esau How?

Quoting Quiverfull: Lesbian Sex is Like Esau How? March 24, 2014

by John Piper from his blog Desiring God – Lesbian Sex, HIV, Esau and Christ

The Insanity of Sin

Esau “sold his birthright for a single meal” (Hebrews 12:16). This is insane. His desire for food had made him irrational: “I am about to die; of what use is a birthright to me?” (Genesis 25:32). Besides the spiritual aspects of primogeniture, the firstborn was to receive twice the inheritance of other brothers (Deuteronomy 21:17).

The pastor compared this to Bill Gates asking you for some M&Ms, and you saying, “Make me majority stockholder in Microsoft, and you can have some.” And he says, “Fine.” Such is the insanity of sin. All sin. That’s the deal. You get M&Ms; you lose eternal joy.

But here’s the hook: The writer to the Hebrews makes this an example of sexual craving, not gluttony. Verse 16: “See to it that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau.” This helps make sense — if senselessness can make sense of anything — of presidents and pastors who risk their entire presidency and ministry for brief sexual pleasures. From Clinton to Swaggart to Haggard, legacies and souls are peddled for lentil soup.

When Esau Is the Hero

Which brings us to the New York Times article, titled “In Rare Case, Woman With H.I.V. Infects Female Sex Partner, C.D.C. Says.” Same-sex desires are disordered and sad, yet they don’t have to become sinful acts. But what kind of strange force is at work, when two lesbians engage in reckless and repeated sexual activity, knowing that one of them is infected with HIV? Answer: insane force. Esau-like force.

But be careful not to think this Esau-like insanity is owing to the passions of the moment. It is, in fact, what we are taught by the very Center for Disease Control that is supposed to protect our nation’s health. Here is their counsel, quoted at the end of the article:

C.D.C. officials advised that all infected people having sex with uninfected people stay on daily antiretroviral drugs, which can reduce virus levels in blood and bodily fluids so much that transmission is highly unlikely.

Translation: When you play Russian roulette with each other, be sure there is only one bullet in the gun. This is not the fruit of momentary passion. This is the considered counsel of cultural insanity. Esau is the hero in this story.

Comments open below

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment‘ by Janet Heimlich

Quivering Daughters‘ by Hillary McFarland

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement‘ by Kathryn Joyce


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  • Trollface McGee

    Woman-woman transmission is highly unlikely, which is why it’s mentioned as a rare case. Lesbian sex is about the safest partner sex you can have (and has better odds of preventing pregnancy than abstinence programs!)
    The group transmitting the highest rates of HIV and STDs? Heterosexuals- especially in countries where women have substantially less power than men and where men are not accountable for infecting their partners. But hey, anything to blame teh ghey.

  • Nea

    presidents and pastors who risk their entire presidency and ministry for brief sexual pleasures. From Clinton to Swaggart to Haggard, legacies and souls are peddled for lentil soup

    Except that Phillips, Gothard, Haggard, et al had to step down… and Clinton didn’t lose the Presidency. But then, Clinton spoke for the US for 8 years, but he never pretended to speak for God.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Yeah, how do you like that wonderful selective rock throwing on the part of Piper?

  • Nightshade

    Huh. Somehow I’ve never had occasion to use the words ‘Esau’ and ‘lesbian’ in the same sentence. Until now. Thanks, Mr. Piper. You just made my day.

  • Nea

    Example #4321190875 of the utter lack of perspective on the fundamentalist side; if it’s cheating, it’s all just the same.

    Or possibly example #9973852 of “we’re all sinners”. It’s hard to tell, especially as the latter defense inevitably encompasses the first one.

  • Clinton: More morally sound than Phillips, Gothard, and Haggard.

    I think I should go get some ointment for that burn 😀

  • “(and has better odds of preventing pregnancy than abstinence programs!)”

    Hah, yep! But then again, what doesn’t?

  • To give a more serious response:

    Christ asked us to sell all we have for a single meal– “Sell all of your belongings and give them to the poor”, he said to the rich man. The meal the rich man would be buying by selling all he had, of course, was love. Love that we are commanded to have for one another and for God, indeed, love is the sole commandments of Christ.

    Rejoice, lesbians, in your love, for love is Godly.

  • Fledgeling Feminist

    It must be awkward for his point that the Old Testament says nothing about lesbian sex.

  • tulips

    Because…wut?…and huh? It’s reads like writers block on a hard deadline so just toss out buzz words as though they had any relationship with each other and sadly the masses likely drank it in deep and long because famous. My little rant was still more coherent.

  • Ele

    So, the point of this is that having sex when it comes with a risk of getting HIV is foolish, given that what you gain is some temporary pleasure and what you risk losing is very great.

    Okay. I guess I agree.

    My take-away from the Esau analogy: Couples should use condoms (thereby also preventing pregnancy) if one of them has a disease which is transmissible through intercourse, to make sure the other one doesn’t catch it. And a wife has the right to refuse sex with her husband if he has a sexually transmitted disease she doesn’t want to catch.

    ….what do you mean that wasn’t the point??? What does that have to do with lesbians?

  • Sara Lin Wilde

    I couldn’t even get to the lesbian panic; I got totally derailed at the idea that “I am about to die; of what use is a birthright to me?” is irrational. I don’t remember the story too well – maybe he wasn’t about to die? But if he was, then yes, the birthright becomes pretty darn useless. And hey, wouldn’t giving Esau some lentils *without* making him forfeit his birthright have been an act of decency on Jacob’s part? Like the kind of thing Jesus might’ve done?