Quoting Quiverfull: Pot Meet Kettle – Modesty Standards and Religion?

Quoting Quiverfull: Pot Meet Kettle – Modesty Standards and Religion? May 30, 2014
A bridal hijab. Everyday hijabs aren’t that fancy. Isn’t she beautiful?

by Bojidar Marinov from The American Vision – Civilization and Self Control

No wonder Islam seldom teaches self-control in man. While acknowledging the destructive nature of male uncontrolled lust, Islam leaves it to women to protect themselves and society from destruction by choosing their clothing in such a way as to completely shut them off from the world. Men are supposed to remain at the level of immature puberty their whole lives. Women and girls are supposed to act wise and mature from a very early age, exercising external control where men are unable to exercise internal self-control. In the Shariah legislation, a woman is guilty of adultery even when raped. It must be her fault, and the man is very often absolved, as being an innocent victim of his own overwhelming lust and the woman’s lack of prudence.

This, of course, is in stark contrast to the Christian worldview based on the Bible. Far from being an irresistible drive, male sexuality is believed to be controllable, and certainly not a central fact of man’s life. A man is defined by a number of characteristics, and his sexuality – while admittedly destructive when uncontrolled – is only limited to his family. A good Christian man is expected to remain self-controlled and sober even when tempted. There are rules for modesty in a Christian culture, and there are expectations of women as there are of men, but whatever the conduct of a woman, the responsibility for adultery, fornication, and rape lies always primarily with the man. Self-restraint has been an integral part of the moral code for Christian men throughout the centuries – whether it was the monastic codes, or the chivalry rules of conduct, or the Puritan morality, or the Victorian culture. A man without sexual self-control was a man without dignity, and therefore his reputation suffered. Kings and mighty rulers may have been promiscuous at times but they have always at least tried to maintain an appearance of respectability by obeying the accepted norms for sexual conduct. Even Louis XIV, with his many mistresses, preferred to keep them private, and would listen to the advice of his religious advisers.

Unlike Islam, which expects man to remain an immature, uncontrolled beast throughout his life, Christianity encourages maturity, self-control, and restraint. A Christian civilization is a civilization controlled and protected by mature, responsible men. A Muslim civilization is an always precarious balance between the destructive lust of immature men and the protective care of mature and responsible women.

Read the rest of the article at The American Vision

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

Comments open below

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon

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  • Please tell me the author was being sardonic.

  • Mel

    I don’t think so….

  • Mel

    The danger of “modest clothing” has nothing to do with sexuality; it is an expression of power. Muslim or Christian or Jewish or atheist women who have no choice but to dress in a certain way are being oppressed. If those same women can freely choose to dress in any way, but decide to follow certain standards, then conservative – or liberal – dress can be a sign of freedom.

    Example 1 – my medical doctor (MD) is a practicing Muslim who chooses to wear a hijab and keep her body covered from the neck down. She clearly loves her job, is wonderfully opinionated, and works happily with male doctors.

    Example 2: The Duggar women dress with visible hair and more skin than my doctor. They also never stop smiling, don’t have a real career and can’t interact with non-related males for any period of time.

    Who do you think is more oppressed?

  • That_Susan

    I think all forms of fundamentalism are oppressive to women in one way or another.

    And some fundamentalist Christians are very, very quick to blame women for being raped.

  • gimpi1

    Wow, I’ve never seen such a profound case of not recognizing one’s self in the actions of another. Has the author seen the “Christian” statements being made about the victims of Mr. Phillips or Mr. Goddard? Islam blames the victim indeed.

    In general. conservative religious groups are controlling of women. Conservative Islam, Christianity and Judaism all put onerous modesty rules on women, sequester women to a life in the home and tend to blame women for being mistreated by men. I find it hard to believe that the author of this piece doesn’t know that.

  • SAO

    Let’s see, when a Muslim tells a woman to cover her shoulders and knees, it’s proof that the Muslim man is an immature rapist. But when a Christian asks a woman to do that same, it’s a sign of maturity, self-control and restraint.

  • persephone

    I don’t know your doctor, but I would guess that she feels pressured by her religious leader and other members of her congregation to dress this way, especially since she does work outside the home. It may be covert, that gentle pressure that overwhelms. It may very well be her trade-off to continue her job.

  • Trollface McGee

    On first read I thought it was a pretty good parody… then I clicked on the link… My face and palm hurt now.

  • Jewel


  • What was it Christ said? See to the mote in your own eye before you look to pull the beam from your neighbor’s? I think this guy needs to get the BEAM out first.

  • Saraquill

    Why do I have the feeling that this is less about modesty and more taking advantage of pissing upon “filthy brown people” that it’s moderately socially acceptable to denigrate?

  • Brennan

    Yep. I subjected myself to the full article (because I’m a bit of a masochist) and it may be the most vile bit of racist, Islamophobic word-spew I’ve ever seen. And considering that I came of age post-9/11, I’ve seen a lot of vile Islamophobia. The thesis (repeated ad nauseum) is that the Muslim world has never and will never produce anything of value culturally. Muslims are frequently and explicitly compared to animals and he makes a not-so-subtle argument for a resurgence in European colonialism. He doesn’t seem to care one whit about the women involved except to make a few coded “they’ll come for your women!” references to the “animalistic” brown people. It wasn’t really about modesty or self-control; those were just convenient buzzwords for “we’re so superior to Those Other People.”

  • Saraquill

    Now I’m tempted to tell him about the origins of algebra in the hopes his head will explode.

  • Edie Moore McGee

    My niece dresses modestly (though she does wear pants). She says for her it’s about dignity. But it’s truly a choice. She has several children, though she’s Catholic, not QF. Her husband is anything but oppressive. From what I’ve seen at mass, the Church doesn’t have a modest dress policy.

  • Sameera Sheikh

    This has been bugging me for ages – a Muslim doctor wears hijab and it must be because of pressure by her religious leader or congregation, a catholic women dresses modestly and she’s making a free choice? I agree with gimpi1 that more conservative religious groups place greater burden on women wrt to modesty
    And the picture above – in the uk that is a pretty basic hijab- the girls/women that do wear hijab have them way more fancy and decorated with jewellery and brooches

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Interesting. Here in the Washington DC area I am seeing plainer hijabs.

  • Suraiya Ahmed

    The way a hijab is worn and how plain or fancy it is can identify the wearer as belonging to one sect or another. This is becoming diluted with younger women from most sunni and shia sects thinking fashion before tradition – but older ladies and some more fundamentalist groups do have one type that they predominantly wear.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I’ve wondered about that as I’ve seen some variety in the type worn by various age groups.

    Have to say, back when I was wearing a hijab for a project I did for four months that there is something very freeing about not having to worry about how your hair looks in public. I can see how it feels like a protection against the world

  • Monica Swanson

    I think Jesus had it switched around too–your own beam before someone else’s mote.

  • *facepalm* You may be right… my memory is not what it once was and I am ashamed to say that I haven’t reread the source material in quite a few decades.

  • guest

    Women are held accountable for “defrauding” men and partly responsible if they were defiled or taken advantage of if it’s considered that they may have been able to get themselves out of the situation or may have “brought it on” to themselves. Nah, Christians don`t ever blame women. Nope.

  • Catherine

    Exactly–I dress modestly, but I do it for what I perceive to be feminist reasons: it’s MY body and *I* decide who sees what. Not my husband, not my family, not the fashion industry. Me.

  • gimpi1

    Women are also regarded as responsible if their husbands cheat on them, for not being sexy enough or pleasing to them. Women are held partially responsible if their husband abuses them, and told to submit more and more, and that any attempt to defend themselves is ‘defiance’ and justifies their abuse. Women are denied the right to divorce in the face of abuse in the most extreme versions of patriarchy. There’s even “Christian domestic discipline,” a perversion that encourages husbands to beat their wives for disobedience. Seriously, all I can suggest for the author of this piece is a long, hard look in the mirror.

  • Mel

    I can see where that could happen, but I think it is unlikely in the area that I live. We’ve only got one mosque in the area and the Imam and other leaders don’t expect their own family to wear the hijab let alone others members.

    She may receive some pressure from her husband, but since she’s quite vocal about the importance of wives being respected by their husband, I think he probably lets her do her own thing.

  • Algebra isn’t in the Bible, though. So it is false pagan math. 😉

  • “Whatever the conduct of a woman, the responsibility for adultery, fornication, and rape lies always primarily with the man.”

    Rape. *Primarily* the fault of the man. Hmmm. I think by definition rape is always entirely the fault of the one doing the raping. Why is it listed right along with adultery and fornication, which are equally the fault of the woman (though, in patriarchy land, they’re considered at least 95% the fault of the woman)?