Quoting Quiverfull: Fashion Leads to Lust?

Quoting Quiverfull: Fashion Leads to Lust? June 5, 2014

by Stephanus Blignaut from Go Tell My People – Modesty: Discouraging Lust and Encouraging Godliness

Women are so easily caught up in “what everyone is doing” or what is available in the shops and what is promoted in magazines and TV. They don’t think about how their body is portrayed and what it causes in men – the stumbling block it becomes for men. Women condemn lust in a man when they see it but somehow they don’t make the connection between the condemnable lust and their own clothes that they are wearing. Not realizing this makes them stand guilty before God as a stumbling stone because of the lust they caused.

This should not be too quickly excused by women and ladies. Yes, the lust in a pervert is inexcusable and they have a serious problem. But the large majority of decent men are influenced in different degrees by what they see in you as a woman. And they may hide the feelings that it naturally provokes and even be ashamed of it. This causes serious dilemma for them in their purity and the battle they fight is a serious and deadly one. That may very well leave them impure before God and short of His holiness because of what you, a woman, placed before them in the form of a stumbling block and the same will also leave you blamed by God for your uncareful and unsympathetic, reckless and to a large extent plain carnal behavior and justification of it. A large majority of women may very well stand before God one day with a sea of men around her whom she caused to stumble by modeling her body in a sexy form in front of them. She may use the excuse that they should’ve had self control, maturity, etc but the fact is she didn’t have it herself and was far too deliberately ignorant. God says if a man even so much as looks at a woman with lust in his heart he is guilty of adultery. Now, if you don’t have the proper godly desire to be totally blameless in your dress and conduct how do you know how many, many times your careless and uncareful (sic-made up word) attitude makes decent men stumble. Oh, how are you not accountable before God for all the men that you know and live among whether they are brothers of the faith or still in the world? How do you not stand accountable before God? Even unto those who will see you only once or twice in their life. How many decent men can cause to stumble in a life time? How much blood can you gather on your hands and keep gathering it because of shallow excuses to dress the way you want, and not be sensitive towards those around you. Whether it be men and how they perceive you and how you influence them. Or whether it be the example you set for other women and girls. If you be a true Christian and are living “on the edge” how will you not cause justification in the lives of other very pretty women and young ladies causing them to reason, “If you who seems to be a stronger Christian can do it, then surely we can too”. Oh, how much blood can you spill? Because of your simple refusal to be blameless and to dress yourself as close to the cross as you can far away from the edge of the cliff. Too often Christians live as close to the edge of the cliff as they can rather than as close to the cross as they can. This is the life of blamelessness by which you will be blameless before God in as far as you were a temptress and justifier of edgy lewdness to other women.

Read the entire wordy article at Go Tell My People

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon

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  • Hannah

    “And they may hide the feelings that it naturally provokes and even be ashamed of it.”

    Getting an erection is not lust. It is a natural biological function indicating that you have a physical attraction to someone. All it means is Congratulations! your body is working exactly as it should. The verses they always use to support this specifically says “if a man looks upon a woman *with lust in his heart*”. That puts the onus squarely on him, not her. It’s what’s in his *heart* that’s the issue, not what’s going on in his pants. That’s biological and not really controllable, but how you think about women, whether object or human, IS.

    In short: it’s about the man’s intention, not his potential for boners.

  • Mel

    “A large majority of women may very well stand before God one day with a sea of men around her whom she caused to stumble by modeling her body in a sexy form in front of them.”

    Scene from the recent past:
    I am laying at home on the couch sick with the stomach flu. I’m dressed in a hugely oversized T-shirt and shapeless pants. My hair hasn’t been brushed in two days. I’m pasty-white with green undertones.

    My husband, who just got back from getting me crackers and ginger ale from a store 30 minutes away and has been eating in his truck so the smell of food won’t make me sick, gives me a kiss on the forehead before he goes to bed. He gently strokes my hair and says “I don’t know how you do it, but you’re still sexy even when you’re sick.” I reply “You are crazy.” He shrugs, kisses my forehead again, and says “Still sexy.” We laugh and he goes off to bed.

    If my husband can find me sexy in that situation, what chance does any woman have any freaking chance of dressing in a way that doesn’t excite ‘lust’ in a man?

    Better that men learn how to act like adults and church leaders learn how to differentiate “lust” and “desire” rather than lumping them together into one guilt-inducing pile.

  • Trollface McGee

    ” How much blood can you gather on your hands and keep gathering it because of shallow excuses to dress the way you want”
    Oh just stop and shut up.
    I don’t know if a) the writer is blaming women’s dress for sexual violence or b) equating giving men boners with actual violence. Either way – it’s evil. It says that a woman is at fault for being raped because he got that erection somehow. It says that someone’s dress is equivalent to actual violence while his ilk contribute to violence in the name of their God around the world. It says that we should feel guilty for a natural human physical response that we don’t have control over, but that we shouldn’t feel guilty or responsible for our controllable behaviours because of that response.

  • “what chance does any woman have any freaking chance of dressing in a way that doesn’t excite ‘lust’ in a man?”

    Exactly. Every time I’ve heard this guy’s argument, I usually say something like, “Gee, that sounds like a serious issue. I’d be happy to help – what exactly should I wear and not wear so that I’m not a stumbling block?” No one can give me a consistent answer. If you want to complain about something and how women as a whole should do something about it, at least have a specific solution in mind. And THEN we can talk. Until then, grow up and realize that maybe the existence of women’s bodies is the wrong thing to focus on.

  • Nightshade

    Exactly. Even if one accepts the Bible as the final word one must define terms. There is a huge difference between a man noticing that a woman is attractive and obsessing over that momentary attraction and making it into a problem.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I know, right? I was like “Blood? Dude, you need to chill out.” Lol

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    I don’t even understand why that’s a problem, frankly. If you get some, er, pleasant thoughts in your head and linger on them for a bit, fine. Just treat me with respect. I don’t give a shit what’s going on in a guy’s head, I care about his behavior. No Christian thought police for me, no thanks.

  • Nightshade

    I don’t care either, but if the guy is convinced that his eternal destiny hangs on such a thin thread it’s going to matter to him.

  • Independent Thinker

    Burkas are the only surefire way to prevent erections.

  • SAO

    Patriarchy sets an impossible goal for men and encourages them to blame someone else for their failure to meet it.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    There are some men out there that would pop the boner over burkas I believe

  • Joy

    If a man gets turned on by what I’m wearing, what he does with those thoughts is his responsibility and is between him and God. What I do with my thoughts about men who blame women for their thought life are between me and God and are my responsibility – it isn’t the men’s responsibility. Everyone is responsible for their own thoughts!

  • CrazyDogLady

    Yes, this exactly – and I think a huge issue is that we are not taught the difference. I was not raised fundamentalist – we were in a mainline Protestant denomination – but nobody ever explained the difference between “lust” and biological responses. Honestly, I didn’t really understand the difference until recently. That makes for a heck of a lot of guilt if you think your biological responses are sinful in themselves, and then no wonder there’s all this blame-shifting about “you caused me to lust in my heart” when that was never the problem in the first place – when in fact there wasn’t really a problem! So sad.

  • persephone

    I think it implies, or we can at least infer, a certain fixation involved in lust, as opposed to getting a little turned on. It was lust that caused Davis to rape Bathsheba and murder her husband. Every time lust is used in the bible it seems to be an emotion that results in rape and destruction, so it’s not a minor turn-on.

  • persephone

    Considering the number of rapes in countries with burqas, I’m afraid that’s incorrect.

  • “There is a huge difference between a man noticing that a woman is attractive and obsessing over that momentary attraction and making it into a problem.”

    Agreed. The world would be a much better place if self-control with regard to thoughts were the focus.

    I have chosen to be monogamous with my husband. That doesn’t mean that I am blind; what it does mean is that I notice a man as attractive and then put it out of my mind. I see past the body to the person as a whole. I was talking about this with a married male colleague / friend recently, and he said that he basically does the same thing with attractive women he sees. If we can choose self-control with our thoughts because fidelity is a priority, then I certainly expect the same of everyone else.

  • gimpi1

    Wow so much twisted blame wrapped up in so much bad grammar. Also, equating ‘immodest’ dress that some men see as arousing with “spilling blood?”

    And just when you thought it couldn’t get any weirder…

  • Edie Moore McGee

    Let me suggest that the author we are quoting above read this. As it stands, she is part of the problem, not the solution.


  • MizzKittay

    I think the modern equivalent to this biblical “lust” would be obsession. Men in those days saw women too. Likely had the same thoughts. Sometimes something would come of it. That’s where there were problems. Planning to leave your wife for that young girl you just saw on the street? That’s a problem. You don’t know that girl. Why would you leave your wife for a stranger? That makes logical sense to me in that way. To keep a mans thoughts completely pure would be impossible. That’s like asking a woman to hold a baby and not make awww or cooing sounds or to act motherly. It can be done but with restraint (for some, but not all women- I don’t want to be overly generic here). As long as a man isn’t touching me I don’t care if he gawks. If he stares at my breasts I’ll stare at his erection though. Seems fair to me. Though I’ll give the credit to men as most of them don’t stop and gawk or stare at me. A passing glance and maybe a few thoughts is fine. I see the whole modern modesty movement as men getting lazy with restraining themselves. Looking for a scapegoat. Though in reality I think the Bible simply meant don’t get too crazy and obsessive about love. Remember not all ancient languages are as descriptive and as elaborate as the English language. One word could have several meanings.

  • She envisions a bloodthirsty, small-minded version of a god– who would eternally condemn a man for feeling physical attraction and also the woman for “making” him feel attracted. Ugh.

  • Independent Thinker

    Good point.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yeah…poor guys (and girls, though we’re usually not acknowledged as having desire…). So much anguishing over some harmless fantasies…

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Lust is a feeling. Feelings do not make people rape. You can be utterly consumed with desire for someone 24 hours a day–“fixated,” if you will. That will not cause you to rape anyone unless you also believe you are entitled to their body without their consent. A guy can be doing the entire kama sutra with me in his head, but if he respects me as a person and does not feel entitled to my body simply because it arouses him, he’s not going to rape me, no matter what kinds of wild shenanigans are going on in his imagination. Which are no business of mine.

    I care about how men treat me, period. Making people feel ashamed of their sexual thoughts, whether they are “minor turn-ons” or major ones is just messed up, imo.

  • Nea

    The bible’s terms say: “if thine eye offends thee, pluck it out”. Not tell other people to stop making you look at them. The bible’s terms say “do not covet thy neighbor’s wife” and do not add the codicil “and if you do, I’m gonna be pissed at the tempting little hoe bag”.

    This whole “it’s your fault if I sin” nonsense is nowhere in the bible.

  • Nea

    She doesn’t have a chance. Especially in a culture that will rail equally at women for being temptresses and for not being attractive at all times. We’re all supposed to hit that sweet spot of looking nice but not *too* nice 24/7/365.

  • Nea

    There is a truth that needs to be chiseled in stone 10 feet high.

  • Allison the Great

    First off, as someone else has mentioned, sexual attraction is natural and biological. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. Sex is nothing to be ashamed of. People made it shameful. If God didn’t want us to fuck each other, then the idiot should’t have “designed” us to need to reproduce that way and he wouldn’t have made it so beneficial to our health. Please note, I don’t know if there is a “god” or not, but the fundamentalist version of this being is a fucking moron. Men are going to get erections no matter what.

    Second, it’s not up to me to control the thoughts and bodies of men. If I wear something short, it’s probably because it’s hot outside. If I wear something that fits my form it’s because I don’t want to wear baggy frumpy clothes like Michalle Duggar does. If a man is ashamed of what his body does when he sees a woman, it’s not my problem, it’s his.

  • Allison the Great

    And then this god designed him that way. I made you this way, but I hate it. Fundy God = Idiot Who Can’t Design Things For Shit.

  • Allison the Great

    Sooner or later, these men are going to have to learn to control their behaviors.

  • Saraquill

    And that stone should be used to whack many of the people who believe in the inscription.

  • Nea

    I’ve often said that the world would be a better place if the people who want to wallpaper it with the 10 Commandments would just follow them instead.

  • Silly me. Maybe my problem is taking John 3:16 seriously. I thought when our sins were forgiven, and we confessed, our sins were forgiven. I guess I’ve been reading the wrong Bible.

  • persephone

    My point is that these modesty police are confusing the basic desire we feel for another with the lust described in the bible. The word list in the bible carries a different meaning from our general usage. It’s more of the overcome with desire, even madness, level of feeling. And the onus is usually put on the person doing the lusting, not the object of his lust, unlike the purity police. David was punished for the rape of Bathsheba and the murder of her husband, not Bathsheba. The purity police would blame Bathsheba.

  • persephone

    Ah, yes, the minister’s wife level of attractive and modest.

  • Joy

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

  • Allison the Great

    Pssssh, no shit.