Quoting Quiverfull: Patriarchy Rulez?

Quoting Quiverfull: Patriarchy Rulez? July 23, 2014

by Free Northerner cross posted from his blog Free Northerner – Patriarchy = Civilization

Patriarchy is civilization. Civilization is patriarchy.

The two concepts are indistinguishable, differing only in emphasis.

Any time someone says patriarchy, they are, whether consciously or not, referring to civilization.


Civilization is built when men produce more than they need to satiate their desires; civilization is the surplus value males create for the future, particularly their children.

Men will only produce surplus value if it will increase their returns in the marriage market(h/t:RPR). It is not that marriage itself is of value to men, rather marriage provides a means by which man can ensure paternity of his children. With the paternity of his children assured, man can invest invest in his children. Assured paternity binds father to children.

This binding of father to son and daughter is civilization, it may even be humanity itself.*

Patriarchy is a word encompassing all the mechanisms society has created so that man can be assured of the paternity of his children and will bind himself to them. It includes monogamy, pre-marital chastity, prohibitions on adultery, slut-shaming, the criminalization of prostitution, cad-shaming, father as the household head, proscriptions on divorce, patrilineality, and fatherhood itself.

These mechanisms are what create civilization.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

Comments open below

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon

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  • Nea

    Patriarchy is civilization. Civilization is patriarchy.

    That’ll be news to every country with a female head of state and/or democratic government. All of which predate America and some of which rate far higher on quality of life than America does.

    As for that tortured definition of civilization itself, citation very, VERY much needed. Henry VIII wasn’t much interested in his daughters, dude.

  • Trollface McGee

    Oh, this is the MRA Christian… I was wondering why the urge to say “fuck you” was doubly strong.
    During a rather tyrannical period in Ancient China, one emperor instituted very strict rules about enforced patriarchy – pretty much everything this little douche is promoting – penalties for adultery, sex outside marriage – it had nothing to do with “ensuring civilisation” and everything with maintaining political control by keeping people distracted, fearful and poor so they wouldn’t have the time or mental energy to revolt.

  • Mel

    Men will only produce surplus value if it will increase their returns in the marriage market

    Dude, spend some time on an old-school farm before making these stupid proclamations.

    Being married increases the amount of surplus supplies, not vice versa.

    For example, before my husband married, he could have cared for a house and about 20 cows assuming 2x daily hand milkings. The extra milk / cheese would have been more than enough to get the food and clothing supplies he needed for the rest of the year.

    After marrying me, I started a large garden that allowed us to store all of the vegetables needed for the year. Since I could keep the house, we could increase the herd of cattle to 40 cows milked by hand. Using the scraps from the garden and skimmed milk, I could either raise 20 chickens for eggs and meat or 2 pigs. Either way, we would have extra meat and vegetables to trade or sell for supplies.

    Adding children just increases the net value of the farm after the kids reach 5 years of age since that’s old enough to start weeding the garden, gathering firewood, etc.

  • centaurie

    Civilization is built when men produce more than they need to satiate their desires; civilization is the surplus value males create for the future, particularly their children.

    You know, historically, it’s men AND women AND children who produced things for their families…

    As for his ,indeed, tortured definition of civilization see this video for a succinct and comprehensible rebuttal: http://youtu.be/wyzi9GNZFMU

  • gimpi1

    Yes, and women produce nothing. We’re just baby-factories for men. Historically, we don’t grow and preserve food, make fabric and clothing, herd animals, make medicines, take care of the sick, offer counsel or teach. Today, we don’t practice medicine, design computer-systems, work in factories and farms. We don’t actually exist, except to provide a way for men to have “their” children.

    And men don’t love children they raise. They don’t love the women who bear those children. Step-children, adoption and community aren’t things at all. Men are uncaring pigs, unable to love at all, only caring about their selfish desires and furthering their genes.

    Patriarchy degrades women, of course, we all know that, But it also degrades the very men it claims to elevate. It makes them into monsters. I don’t know any men who act the way Free Northerner claims they do. I also see many civilizations both today and in history that don’t work the way he claims they do. Perhaps Free Northerner needs to get his head out of his… never mind.

  • gimpi1

    Yes, Mel, because women and children produce things. On farms, in factories and offices, in hospitals and research labs. All over the world. All throughout history.

    That basic reality is something Free Northerner fails to grasp. Most likely because women and children aren’t real people in his mind. Just props to add interest to his show, which is, of course, all about him. At least that’s how he comes off.

  • Allison the Great

    I’ve met one man who behaves the way the Free Northerner does. He’s in the military, he’s almost 50 but he never got promoted above the rank of “private”. He is the whiniest most infantile man that one could ever meet.

  • Allison the Great

    I take it this is one of the assholes that thinks that women never made a single contribution to anything. We are here for sex, babies, gettin’ supper on that there table and, well that’s about it. He never bothered to read a history book. The best way to give this whiney little prick the finger is to just kick ass, work our asses off to become the best we can be (doctors, lawyers, or whatever the fuck we want) while they toil at the bottom. The MRA’s I’ve met are total failures at life. They bitch, whine, and complain when life is not handed to them and when someone – especially a woman – surpasses them in success or gets that promotion they’re super sulky. They don’t have the drive. I’m sure there might be some MRA’s that are successful, but the ones I’ve met certainly are not. The ones I’ve met are quite immature and they never amount to anything at all. Managers, supervisors and employers can see that, so these guys never get promoted. These are guys who can never take responsibility for anything, so I find it funny that he’s talking about men taking responsibility.

    I mean who the fuck is this guy anyway?

  • Astrin Ymris

    When I saw this heading on FreeNortherner’s site, I decided NOT to click on it, because I knew it would infuriate me.

    This guy reminds me of an Amazon poster who claimed that if a woman was roofied and raped on a dinner date, she should “accept her complicity” in her own rape on the grounds that she didn’t “guard her drink” well enough.

  • Patriarchy is civilization. Civilization is patriarchy.

    A slogan Orwell would have included in his Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

  • bekabot

    Yeah, well, civilization is always breaking down, and its breakdowns, when they happen, are as much the fault of men as women if not more. Back when I was a teenage kid I thought we’d all be smart to create something hardier than ‘civilization’ which wouldn’t be as fracture-prone. I still think so.

  • Nightshade

    If (his version of) civilization is dependent on keeping half the population bound in servitude then it should be allowed to break down…no, should be torn down and discarded ASAP.

  • That_Susan

    I wrote a post and then decided that I’d be preaching to the choir here, so I posted it over there instead in order to possibly have more influence — under my same name, in case anyone here wants to see it.

  • Allison the Great

    Your comment on that was absolutely brilliant!

  • JeanPing

    Wow, who knew? My entire worldview just changed. Thanks, dude!

  • Nea

    he never got promoted above the rank of “private”. He is the whiniest most infantile man that one could ever meet

    I’m thinking these two facts are related.

  • That_Susan

    Thanks so much. I even went back and posted a response to the commenter who attributed female monogamy to the horrendous practices of slut-shaming and labeling children of unmarried women as “bastards” and ostracizing them.

    My own desire to be monogamous (my husband is also monogamous) is motivated by love, honesty, and a belief in keeping my vows — and also, during my childbearing years, I definitely wanted my husband to have no doubt that our children were his — NOT because of any fear of my children or myself being ostracized by society, but because of my own positive experience of growing up in a home with both my parents involved in my life.

    It’s so backwards that these Dark Enlightenment and Quiverful folks see fear as the best motivator for women and children, when there are seriously so many wonderful results to being a truly good person and following through on our commitments.

  • Allison the Great

    What infuriates me about this man is that he thinks that women owe him children, we how him sex just because we exist. I hate men like that. I also hate that he seems to think that we need him to make decisions for us and that without him we’d just be sluts and have all sorts of bastards that will be outcasts. He has all these low opinions of women’s decision making and then he is surprised when he can’t get a date. Unfortunately, each NO that he gets from a woman makes him more bitter and he then he treats them worse than he already did. He never learns that it’s not that we’re whores who want to tear down the *bullshit* self-proclaimed nice guy *bullshit* but he’s just an ass hole and we want nothing to do with him.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    I feel like inside he’s the kind of guy that would have this type of interior dialogue from Weird Al’s new CD “Jackson Park Express” – http://pop.genius.com/Weird-al-yankovic-jackson-park-express-lyrics

  • Nea

    we owe him sex just because we exist

    That’s what bothers me about the “defraud” terminology. You defraud someone by taking away what they are owed. I owe no one anything just by *existing* but he thinks every vagina is literally his by right.

  • Independent Thinker

    Names and places have been changed for my example. This happened to a person I have known since I was teenager who ended up caught up in the quiverful movement. Scott barely got by at his job as a salesman. Scott found out the company he was working for had their competitor opening a new location nearby Scott’s current job. Scott went to apply at Appliance Warehouse for a management job. Appliance Warehouse planned to hire two managers and make the best manager the head of the store at the end of six weeks. On the first day Scott meets Jane turns out Jane has six years of experience over at Appliance Superstore as the manager. Scott has no management experience he has always just been a salesman. Plus Scott is a sexist douchebag with a quiverful wife at home. Scott quits his job first job convinced Jane isn’t a threat. Jane and Scott work together the full six weeks. Scott trashes Jane every chance he gets. At the end of six weeks Jane is picked to be the new store manager. Scott flips out and quits. Scott then goes and gets a job selling golf carts which pays 1/3 of what he would have made a Appliance Warehouse as Jane’s assistant manager. Quiverful wife is shocked by the whole situation but in the end is thankful because Jane would have probably broke up her marriage because Scott with his four kids he can barely support is the kind of guy Jane would want to hook up with. Jane has no kids and is happily married but quiverful wife still drinks the koolaid. Scott’s story is very similar to a lot of the guys I have crossed paths with that are fundie.

  • That_Susan

    I’ve linked below to a really good video by Lacey Green –
    awesome young feminist and sex-positive activist, who grew up in a home heavily influenced by both Mormonism and Islam and is now atheist, by the way. In this video, Lacey does a great job addressing the issue of some men thinking women owe them sex.

    I learned about Lacy from my teen and I just love her!


  • Astrin Ymris

    She is great! She says– far more articulately than I could– some things I’ve been turning over in my head lately. The root of Rape Culture is the belief that women are amenities whose function is to provide sex, offspring, and housework to men rather than fully realized human beings in their own right.

    And it’s everywhere. Having seen the term “creeper” associated with the term “Minecraft” a lot, I decided to check out a video I found while cruising YouTuble. However, I discovered that nearly a minute near the beginning was devoted to “joking” about how strange the narrator found it that his viewers voted for a vid about “how creepers could exist” over “how to use knowledge about Sims women to pick up real women” It’s from :44- 1:43


    It’s not bad on the creeper mockumentary, but I was struck by his assumption that 1) No women or girls play Minecraft, or might be part of his audience, and 2) that artificial CGI women have anything to teach men about real women.

    IOW, he showed a subconscious belief that women’s primary reason for existing was to provide men with sexual gratification, and that if men were having trouble accessing this function, they should learn the “back door” secrets, and THEN they’d be able to make the app “put out” as it should. Women aren’t considered to have a mental life just as complicated and individual as men’s; they’re a kind of simpler being whose psyche is primarily focused on getting a man to have babies with. The gamer’s task is to get past the firewall of personal preferences to convince his target that HE fits that profile (or at least for long enough to “score”).

    The other striking thing was that since he assumed an all-male audience, his “joking” was aimed– consciously or not– at normalizing the belief that REAL men are concerned with “getting game” at all times over all other interests. And if they weren’t, something was wrong with them. A kind of “wimp shaming”, if you would.

    Now, this guy DOES have a girlfriend, so he’s probably not a creep (pun not intended). But he’s still buying into the soft side of PUA assumptions to some extent– or at least accepts them as normal. He felt strongly enough about the surprise results of his poll to devote a minute of screen time to it in a twelve minute video. That says a lot.

  • I actually agree with him that the binding of fathers to children has an important role to play in civilization. People, male and female, (those include fathers) need to care about those weaker than them, and those who come behind them (their own children, and those of other people). That is why “love others as yourself” is the most civilizing force in the universe: All those who have that spirit in their hearts will use what they have for the benefit of all others.

    But patriarchy is a force that limits that binding to a small group of privileged men, doing that for their own children and not the children of the less privileged, instead of extending that motivation and ability to make a difference to all, while extending it would civilize much larger segments of society. Which is very uncivil of them.

  • “Patriarchy is civilization… Civilization is built when men produce more than they need [which will happen if] it will increase their returns in the marriage market… marriage provides a means by which man can ensure paternity of his children. With the paternity of his children assured, man can invest invest in his children.” – Free Northener

    And yet, in the age of DNA tests, a man can be assured of being the father of his children without any of the above.

    As such, even if measures to ensure that fathers can bind with their children – assured they are his – were the basis of civilization, then many of the things he mentioned are, by his own reasoning , not needed in this world.

    By his reasoning, the need for patriarchy became much smaller in a world with DNA tests.

  • Saraquill

    That person has never read National Geographic or Wikipedia.

  • Freebird

    Many times guys who think they are the nice guy are really creeps. He is obviously a creep. Can you imagine him spouting his beliefs to a date? Red flag!!

  • gimpi1

    He’s a (cough) loser (cough).

    I have to assume Free Northerner is so “free” because no woman will give him the time of day. If any woman was unfortunate as to hitch her wagon to this “star” she is deserving of our pity.

  • gimpi1

    I’m sure Scott has his poor wife brainwashed into believing that he’s quite a catch, and silly little old her is lucky that he deigns to stay in the marriage. Think Michael Pearl.

  • Allison the Great

    Actually I can imagine it. That’s why he never gets a second date, ever. And when he doesn’t get that second date, he goes on some tirade about how his date was a whore who only used him to get a free dinner. He will never understand how fucking creepy he is and that he is what the internet refers to as a “restraining order American”. He’s someone that you need to stay away from. Girls know this when he and other guys like him stupidly talk about dominating and controlling women on the first date.

  • Independent Thinker

    I should update Scott and his wife. We are no longer friends but Scott’s wife has a quiverful You Tube channel and website. Scott’s family lives in a 1600 square foot house that’s 3 bedroom 2 bath on less than a 1/2 acre lot. They bought that house when they only had two kids and they film videos in it so I recognize it’s the same house because I had been in it on several occasions. They now have 7 children and plan to have more. Yes, that’s 9 people in that house. Scott still works as a salesman and quiverful wife does not work. Ironically, when I first met Scott and his wife he worked with several of my other friends who are not fundie. All of them have gone on to climb the corporate ladder. Scott is the only one 15 years later still doing the same line of work. Everyone else took management jobs or ended up going to work somewhere else for way more money. Scott also refuses to move anywhere that he might make more money. That’s another reason why he has been unsuccessful. Scott could have moved 1000 miles away at one point from where they live now but will not do that either. Scott lives in an economically depressed area and it doesn’t look like the job market there is ever going to fully recover. Scott also will not miss church, ever, for any reason so if any job requires him to work during church he will not take it.

  • 1fifty

    Some years ago I read a worldwide study where one of the results was that, after a baby is born, the comments from family and friends about who the baby looks like, runs 3-1 in favor of dad. It’s assumed this is to reassure dad that the baby is biologically his. Hmmm.

  • 1fifty

    Some years ago, I actually read about a worldwide study where one of the results was that, after a child is born, family and friends say that the baby looks more like the dad by a ratio of 3-1. Apparently, it’s to reassure dad that the baby is really his.