Quoting Quiverfull: Do It For The Menfolks?

Quoting Quiverfull: Do It For The Menfolks? August 14, 2014

adventurousby Anna Sophia Botkin of Visionary Daughters and reposted at Ladies Against Feminism – What is Okay For a Girl to Do? from their new book/audio message ‘Adventurous Femininity’

As women we see our lives in terms of helping men with the challenges, quests, wars, and adventures.

We need to be very careful that we don’t pursue a brand of femininity that is so obsessed with it’s own girliness, that it can’t get it’s hands dirty with real dominion.

 Feminism, there is a lot more to that than women who dress up in pinstriped power suits and do man’s work. Essentially feminism is the desire to be autonomous. It’s the desire to be independent from a man and out from under his authority and this is a tendency that even the girliest girl, wearing the frilliest apron, and making the wholesomest muffins can have. If muffin making becomes a girl’s priority over serving her father, in more urgent or useful ways, just because…she really, really likes to make muffins, then her motive is really no different than a feminist’s. And equally dangerous as feminism, is the idea that men and women should live in these pink and blue worlds. Separated by different interests and disconnected goals. Men and women were created to be different and those differences are wonderful, they are glorious. But their distinct complimentary roles should work together towards a common goal.

Women should not live in a woman’s world, but in the common world of mankind. Not as a man, but as a man’s helper. Not stepping outside her role, but understanding her place beside his.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders or their followers/enforcers and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

Comments open below

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nea

    Feminism is the realization that women ALREADY do “not live in a woman’s world, but in the common world of mankind” and that is why every woman who doesn’t have a comfortable career as a professional Daddy’s Little Girl doesn’t just “desires” but needs to be autonomous to survive.

    The Botkin girls are the living definition of “check your privilege” added to the massive blind spot that Daddy is mortal. Girls, what is going to happen to YOU, much less your comfortable life, when your father finally goes and you have no husbands and no career experience beyond selling your own smugness for pin money?

    Open your eyes. Notice that throughout time, throughout the world, women have had to work and survive on their own because of men gone due to death, war, divorce, accident, sickness, poverty. Your self righteousness cannot make your father immortal.

    Heh. Phone changed that to “immoral.”

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    It’s not too late for a weaponized drone strike upon the “Ladies against Feminism” headquarters while all the “ladies” are there! It’d be a pretty kind and decent thing to do, so they wouldn’t have to worry about what to do with their time and how to feed/clothe/shelter themselves when their “Man Umbrella”-authority dies…

  • Yeah, if muffin making becomes a girl’s priority, next thing you know she can be running a multi-million dollar muffin making business, and we can’t have any of that.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Re: “…Essentially feminism is the desire to be autonomous. It’s the desire to
    be independent from a man and out from under his authority…”

    Yes. Exactly.

    And there’s absolutely no reason that women SHOULDN’T have this autonomy. The entire CPM meme has been created out of the whole cloth by tortured logic and Extreme Eisogesis, aided by the forged Pastoral Epistles.

  • KarenJo12

    Thank you! I saw this blurb and hoped you or Libby Anne would devote a thread to it. The Botkin position is that women have no minds of our own at all. We exist for no other reason and should no other thoughts than those put in our heads by our male owners. The fact that they themselves don’t live this way, something proven by the name on the books being Sofia and Anna Botkin, not their father’s, is glossed over or ignored.

  • Five bucks says that a hundred years ago, they’d have said…

    “”…Essentially freedom is the desire to be autonomous. It’s the desire to be independent from the white man and out from under his ownership…”

    …as if this was also some ridiculous thing.

  • persephone

    I shouldn’t have read this this morning. Probably going to be angry for a good chunk of today.

  • lh

    As women we see our lives in terms of helping men with the challenges, quests, wars, and adventures.

    We need to be very careful that we don’t pursue a brand of femininity that is so obsessed with it’s own girliness, that it can’t get it’s hands dirty with real dominion.

    Feminism, there is a lot more to that than women who dress up in pinstriped power suits and do man’s work. Essentially feminism is the desire to be autonomous. It’s the desire to be independent from a man and out from under his authority and this is a tendency that even the girliest girl, wearing the frilliest apron, and making the wholesomest muffins can have. If muffin making becomes a girl’s priority over serving her father, in more urgent or useful ways, just because…she really, really likes to make muffins, then her motive is really no different than a feminist’s. And equally dangerous as feminism, is the idea that men and women should live in these pink and blue worlds. Separated by different interests and disconnected goals. Men and women were created to be different and those differences are wonderful, they are glorious. But their distinct complimentary roles should work together towards a common goal.

    Women should not live in a woman’s world, but in the common world of mankind. Not as a man, but as a man’s helper. Not stepping outside her role, but understanding her place beside his.

    There. Fixed it.

  • Hannah

    I was just thinking it sounded remarkably progressive and sane if you deleted those bits. I guess acknowledging that girly girls can be feminists too is a bit progressive for them, though admittedly the teeniest of baby steps they ever could have taken.

  • katiehippie

    “And equally dangerous as feminism, is the idea that men and women should live in these pink and blue worlds.”

    They are the ones wanting to live in the pink and blue worlds. Do they read what they write?

  • Nightshade

    Why limit ourselves to pink, and the men to blue? There’s a whole rainbow of colors out there, pick your favorite, or enjoy them all!

  • Astrin Ymris

    All the upvotes!

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    If muffin making becomes a girl’s priority over serving her father, in more urgent or useful ways, just because…she really, really likes to make muffins, then her motive is really no different than a feminist’s.

    “If you’re doing anything because you enjoy doing it, it’s WRONG! Ask your father to give you some tasks you don’t like doing, so you can better demonstrate your servitude.” Gosh, I can’t imagine why women leave this subculture.

    Also, what’s with the constant obsession with “power suits?” These people really do seem to believe that all women who work are these “high-powered” corporate types whose lives are a constant string of board meetings. Do they realize that most people let alone women do not have those kinds of jobs? I work in youth non-profit. I’ve never been required to wear more than business casual, and I’ve also worked places where everyone shows up in jeans. Get a grip, folks. Also, pinstripes? Come on.

  • I was just going to comment that as I read this, every other sentence I was thinking either “Yes, absolutely,” or “No, full stop.”

    I would leave in this sentence – “We need to be very careful that we don’t pursue a brand of femininity that is so obsessed with its own girliness, that it cant get its hands dirty with real dominion.” Not that everyone needs to enjoy getting their hands dirty, but being unable to is certainly a weakness.

    And I would change one of the crossed-out sentences as follows: “People were created to be different and those differences are wonderful, they are glorious. But their distinct and varied complementary roles should work together toward a common goal – in the family, in the workplace, in society as a whole.”

  • Nightshade

    Maybe the whole thing is an experiment to see just how far women can be pushed to non-existence before they snap. A woman must be subservient to her man, must obey his every whim, must go out of her way to figure out what he wants before he can even ask, can’t even have a hobby just because she enjoys it. How much of this can any woman take?

  • katiehippie

    They are watching too many movies.

  • bekabot

    Bad Situation Type 1:
    “You broke it; now you own it.”

    Bad Situation Type 2:
    “You bought it; now it owns you.”

    Too bad, Botkin. Sounds like you’ve got a rotten case of Type #2. Tsk.

  • Nea

    Seriously. I haven’t had to wear hose or heels to the office since the early 90s.

  • KarenH

    Yeah, the “pinstriped power suit” comment actually had me responding out loud with, “the 90s called and want their wardrobe back.”

    In the meantime, I’m here at work, earning the money to pay for my lesbian duplex, dressed in a powder pink polo shirt and capri pants with powder pink canvas Mary Janes.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Yeah, the “pinstriped power suit” comment actually had me responding out loud with, “the 90s called and want their wardrobe back.”

    Oh yeah, I’m pretty sure that the Pinstriped Power Suit of Feminist Doom has big, boxy shoulder pads. 😛

  • I don’t care to live in their version of a world, serving a man, unless I’m working in a restaurant or something. Using a little humor here, and these people have none, let’s face it, as women, we’ve always thought we are a little better than men. We laugh about it. We don’t think like they do (thank heavens). We don’t act like they do (thank heavens). And, we just aren’t like them. We do things our own way, with less time spent belching, scratching, peeing (unless one is menopausal), spitting, and farting. Sure, we may talk an issue to death, but I’d like to think it would be an excellent form of diplomacy, instead of rushing to break things and kill people. We aren’t men. Basically, even though there are times when they absolutely refuse to call a plumber when we think we are far superior to them, they’re almost equal to us. They make us want to wring their dear little necks when they won’t ask for directions, but I’m just as bad. They can be annoying when they don’t buy gas when they should, but I have a healthy belief in allowing a car’s gas tank to clean itself out, fully by emptying it on a somewhat regular basis. But – we were not put on earth to serve men. Men were not put on earth to serve women. What part of normal human sociology don’t people like those poor little Daddy’s emotionally incestuous little darlings understand?

  • Pinstriped Power Suit of Feminist Doom? Where can I get one of those?