Quoting Quiverfull: Duggar Family Compared Abortion to Slavery?

Quoting Quiverfull: Duggar Family Compared Abortion to Slavery? August 7, 2014

This one is from a Korean gossip site but it appears to be true. Visited the Duggar Instagram site and sure enough, they are using an offensive graphic linking abortion to slavery. Cannot copy the graphic so I’m just linking to it on their Instagram. It’s from a Pro Life site called StandTrueDotCom, which is linked to Operation Rescue and run by prominent pro-lifer Bryan Kemper from Ohio. The graphics at the site are pretty over the top and we’ll be posting a number of them at the end of this post.

From KPopStarz.com – ’19 Kids and Counting’ Duggar Family Compares Abortion to Slavery on Instagram: Twitter Users Outrage, Jessa Duggar Retweets to Support

‘19 Kids and Counting’ Duggar family compared abortion to slavery on their Instagram and Twitter. This made Twitter users very angry, but one of the daughters of ‘19 Kids and Counting’ Jessa Duggar retweeted to show support. But Jill Duggar, married to Derick Dillard, didn’t acknowledge the post. Is she rebelling from the Duggar family?

They tagged the picture, “Legality does not equal morality… Slavery was legal. #AbolishAbortion”.

This, of course, made many Twitter users angry and even unfollow Duggar family’s account.

Karen W wrote, “@duggarfam @JessaSeewald Are you going to financially support all of the babies that are born? What about kids conceived due to rape?”

Miss Tina said in response, “@duggarfam Very telling how you never, EVER say, “abolish poverty” Or, “abolish war”. Or, “abolish rape”.

As a very religiously committed household, Duggar family opposes abortion and the use of some contraceptives. They have an iron-clad restrictions on who their kids can date and “court”.

You’d think that the Duggars would have learned by now that you cannot piss off your fans and expect to keep high ratings of their television show.

Here are some of the graphics that StandTrue encourages their followers to use in social media.

standtruerape

standtruealtar

standtruelincoln

standtruenazi

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders or their followers/enforcers and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

Comments open below

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nea

    I’m not remotely surprised. The Duggars have two problems right now. The first is that they’re so insular that they can’t grasp that their circumstances are not universal. Some women are injured/risk their lives by pregnancy. Some women can be injured/killed in childbirth (and if whatever J daughter continues to claim that she’s a midwife without actual medical training, sooner or later she WILL be responsible for a preventable death.)

    The second is that their star is fading fast. Michelle’s not getting knocked up anymore, Jim Bob’s political endorsement is attached to a string of losing candidates, and Gothard is in deep disgrace, unable to stem the tide against his beliefs and his cult, which the Duggars are eyeball deep in.

    Time to rally the faithful and grab a few headlines, lest TLC’s audience move on to the next freak show and forget them. Being outrageous worked for the Ducks – although I do hope that the Duggars don’t dip into overt racism as well. They don’t have the Duck Dynasty ratings; TLC can cut them loose and never look back.

  • Mel

    I actually have no problem with the statement “Legality does not equal morality” because it is true occasionally.

    Let’s say my husband hears screaming and the sounds of someone being hit across the street then sees the neighbor’s kid run outside with bleeding welts on his leg. Legally, my husband has no obligation to do anything. Morally, he damn well better call the cops at least and intervene if he can safely in the meantime. (I’d use myself as an example, but I’m a mandated reporter so I do have legal responsibilities.)

    But.

    The Duggars are a one-tune family. The purpose of all people is to have scads of babies. They don’t even pretend to care about people outside of their little universe for very long.

  • Mel

    Yeah, the Duggar (and QF in general) has caused me to look at my extremely conservative Catholic relatives with an odd sense of nostalgia. My relatives are at least allowed to attempt to space babies using NFP and even (gasp) choose not to get pregnant if they are willing to skip sex. Likewise, even ultra-Orthodox Jewish families can limit family size by skipping sex.

    The Duggars et al don’t have that choice and that is bat-shit scary crazy.

    Random side note: I think my Roman Catholic Church is so completely crazy on human sexuality in general – but most Catholics say something about informed consciences and order up some artificial birth control…

  • Allison the Great

    With some things, sure, just because it’s legal, doesn’t make it right. However, such is not true with abortion. The Duggars, and the people like them who promote this site and others like it don’t give two shits about anyone but those who believe as they do. They don’t care that pregnancy can be dangerous to a woman’s health (apparently not even for Michelle, if she gets pregnant one more time it could seriously damage her health, and the baby might not even live). To them, women only exist to have babies, so when we have to abort or if we don’t want to have a baby against our will (in the case of rape or incest or if we don’t want to put our bodies through a pregnancy) we’re not fulfilling our duty as women. Abortion is NOT murder. We have every right to terminate a pregnancy and rid our bodies of a zygote, or a cluster of cells. These assholes need to learn that their beliefs in this god or any other god does not give them the right to make these decisions for us. It’s none of their goddamn fucking business.

  • Allison the Great

    Yeah, when it comes to the J-girls’ claim that they’re all midwives, I’m skeptical. I wouldn’t let them deliver any babies of mine if I ever chose to have them. I seriously doubt they know what they’re doing. And what’s with this sudden “home birth” craze, anyway? If (in an alternate universe of course) I ever decided to get knocked up, I wouldn’t want to have the thing in my home or someone else’s home. I’d want to be in a hospital, because if something went wrong, or something happened that the midwife is not trained for (especially the Duggar girls) then that can cause a lot of harm and even death if they don’t have the training or equipment to deal with something like a hemorrhage. I don’t understand why women look down on other women for having their babies in a hospital, it’s none of their damn business where the kid was born. The kid’s healthy, the mom’s healthy, that’s what fucking matters. I’d also want drugs and shit if I ever gave birth. Fuck that natural shit.

  • Saraquill

    Are they trying to sever the hand that feeds them?

  • Mel

    I doubt Jill (I think it’s Jill) will continue to practice. If she does, she will never be able to accumulate any kind of financial freedom because she’ll be a lawsuit magnet – and as NeaDods pointed out, given enough time and births something very bad is likely to happen.

  • Trollface McGee

    Rape apologia – check
    Minimising slavery and ignoring that their holy book approves of it – check
    Godwin’s law – check
    Weird super-pink gynochair – check
    Duggar’s desperate publicity attempts – check
    Wewt, I got fundie bingo!

  • The only similarities between abortion and slavery are that your church used to support both, but later stopped because of politics– as opposed to honestly believing either one is wrong.

  • Nea

    IIRC, the Catholic use of birth control is only a couple of percents below general use – something like 95 instead of 97.

  • Nea

    I seriously doubt they know what they’re doing

    Not past the basics of a healthy birth to an experienced mother, they don’t. They’d be completely up the creek dealing with a breech or a wrapped cord or a stuck baby. (That last happened to a friend of mine. Stuck down too far to do a C-section and too big to come out. The doctors were actually debating breaking the baby’s collar bone vs the mother’s pelvis.)

    And what’s with this sudden “home birth” craze, anyway?

    Further isolation of mother from secular world, further reliance of family on church for help, brownie points for mother within church society, and a general attitude of “well, it’s God’s will” if shit happens.

  • Trollface McGee

    Birth scares me to death so if I were ever to decide to go through with that I would want lots of drugs and licensed nurses, doctors, more drugs, etc. etc.
    If someone genuinely wants a natural birth, that’s their choice, I don’t think anyone should be condemned for making something less painful and more comfortable.

  • Allison the Great

    It’s a craze among secular women too, though.

  • Petticoat Philosopher

    Orthodox Jews are actually permitted to use birth control, though not all forms. The ultra-orthodox fad of having loads of babies has nothing to do with a prohibition of birth control. They just want a win a demographics war with us non-Orthodox Jews and, of course, Arabs (if they are in Israel).

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    From what I’ve seen of this family’s home birthing, there are far too many extra people around for the process. If it was me, I’d be in a hospital – but if for some insane reason I was at home and unable to give birth anywhere else but home (…the baby is literally not waiting on coming out…there’s 20 ft of snow piled up on top of the house located in Southern California and all the shovels and spoons are where they cannot be gotten to and used for digging a way out…the neighborhood has inexplicably been blocked off from entry and exit by the sudden appearance of new mountains and falling rocks…) the last thing I’m going to want is an audience. And I’d need drugs, or everyone is going to be just as miserable as I’d be going through natural childbirth.

    Do they do episiotomies (the Duggars and others like them) in these home births? Do they stitch things up after? What about post-delivery prevention of infections, and the laundry!

  • Nea

    I wish I was surprised to read that, but anti-vax is a craze among secular women too. Too damn naive to think that all the things that up used to go wrong al la disease and birth “don’t happen anymore”? Don’t know.

  • texcee

    I have to wonder … have any of them actually delivered a baby? Or are they just claiming that they’re trained? I once took a CPR class, so technically, I’m trained to save people’s lives, but I’ve never had to actually DO it. What makes the D girls any different?

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    In their book there is discussion of Jill delivering babies, including a story of delivering the baby of a grateful single mother. I call bullshit on this of course because we all know that JimBob Duggar would never allow one of his daughters to come into contact with a unmarried pregnant woman.

  • That_Susan

    I don’t think anyone needs to look down on anyone else for their
    birthing choices. I had my first child in the hospital and my second at home, and while I personally found natural birth to be a lot easier and healthier than the induced birth I had in the hospital, I wouldn’t say, “Fuck that hospital shit.” I think everyone has to make that choice for themselves, and I’m thankful to live in a place where women have lots of options.

  • That_Susan

    Yes, and some women actually feel more isolated giving birth In a hospital than at home.

  • That_Susan

    My midwife was capable of doing episiotomies, and also of stitching women up if necessary, but she rarely needed to. She promoted water-birth, which makes your skin a lot more elastic.
    My second daughter, who was born at home, weighed 10 lbs., 2 oz., and no episiotomy as needed, and it was so awesome not having that soreness to deal with.

  • gimpi1

    I had a couple of friends have home-births. Both were not first-time mothers (one had two kids, one had three), both were healthy, with no signs of any complications or problem pregnancies.

    They both worked with an obstetrician and nurse-midwife with hospital practicing privileges and went through pre-delivery screening. Both live in an urban area, with easy access to hospitals in case something went wrong.

    One chose it because of worries about hospital-contracted infections (not a huge problem, but more common than you would think). For the other, it was mostly a cost-issue. It’s significantly cheaper. Things worked out fine for both.

    Since I decided not to have kids, it didn’t come up for me, so I really don’t have a dog in this race. There are reasons for choosing home-delivery. However, it’s something those making the choice should be fully-informed about, and screened to look for potential problems.

  • That_Susan

    Of course they shouldn’t.

  • Allison the Great

    Lying about helping others is so “un-Christian” of them.

  • Allison the Great

    I HATE it when I see moms of autistic/Asperger’s children claiming that it caused their autism. No, it fucking didn’t. Shit happens. The reason we have more people being diagnosed as being on the Autism spectrum now more than ever is that we are better at catching the more subtle signs and one does not have to be severely developmentally challenged/non-verbal to catch it. The doctors know more now about it than ever before. When I was a kid, they didn’t dare say autism or Asperger’s when it came to me. I could speak, albeit I didn’t start until age 3. I had a lot of Autistic traits, but they never thought it was enough to make a diagnosis until in the last 10 years.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Maybe not it she limits her practice to women who belong to the CPM in one form or the other. I think members of the same belief system would be reluctant to sue Quiverfull royalty– or at least celebrities.

    And I think secular home birthers would prefer midwives with actual medical education.

  • Astrin Ymris

    “Better diagnosis” explains Aspies, but not kids with moderate to severe autism.

    I’ve read that there’s a connection between pesticide exposure and autism rates. My own theory about the autism epidemic is that environmental pollutants have bio-accumulated to concentrations high enough to have a perceptible impact on human health.

  • Mel

    There is a heart-breaking website hurtbyhomebirth that tells stories of real moms dealing with the physical issues, severely hurt babies and dead infants that can happen with home births.

    To me, it’s the same as hopping on an unknown horse and trying to jump a 3 foot gate. Statistically, you will most likely be fine – but if you are in the unfortunate minority, you break your neck when thrown from the horse. It all depends on your tolerance for risk – and your understanding of the risks involved.

  • Mel

    “And I think secular home birthers would prefer midwives with actual medical education.”

    You’d think so, but they don’t. I read the Skeptical OB website frequently. Dr. Tuteur doesn’t pull punches – or assume that women are too stupid to understand risk. There’s a whole group of women who genuinely believe that “trusting birth” is all that is needed to deliver safely. And – statistically – for most women, that’s true. It’s important to remember, though, that when birth goes wrong, serious permanent complications like neonatal disability and death happen within minutes – and there is no way to transfer the mother fast enough to get from home to CS even if she lives 8 minutes away.

    Two websites – from totally opposite backgrounds, but are trying to be sure that home birthing women fully understand the risks of home birth – that are worth reading are:

    wwww.skepticalob.com (Former clinical instructor at Harvard Medical School – tends to be confrontational)

    http://navelgazingmidwife.squarespace.com/ (Licensed Midwife, Certified Practical Midwife (CPM is the same title JIll Duggar may be using if she practices after finishing her apprenticeship.))

  • Astrin Ymris

    The ideal would be if you could have a birthing rooms in a hospital where a mother could retreat to with her partner, her doula, and her swimming pool and just labor on her own timeline without interference– but has the option of opening the door and yelling for assistance if needed at any time.

  • Nea

    Presumably the older girls have helped with the birth of their younger siblings.

  • Nea

    I bleeding hate anti-vax because it was such incredible fun to spend over $500 being re-vaccinated for everything because I can’t count on herd immunity to protect me from what didn’t have a vaccination when I was a kid. Thanks, unknown patient zero, for bringing measles back close to me.

    Right now my arm has a rather sore lump that isn’t fun either – but I’m all topped up. By the way… anyone reading this who was being vaccinated in the 60s? Your measles vaccine probably needs redoing, according to the CDC. That’s what started this train a-rollin’ and then Mother couldn’t confirm that I’d had the chicken pox, either as a disease or a vax.

    Interestingly, when looking at my old vax records, I saw polio twice, I asked my mother about it, and she said that her father — a doctor who had seen polio firsthand — wasn’t pissing around with his only granddaughter. When there were two polio vaccines and nobody was sure which was better, his response was “get her both.”

  • Nea

    Wouldn’t be the first time. When they took lead out of gasoline (and thus out of the air) it had a huge impact.

  • Guest

    All those younger siblings born at home.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    You are not alone. With my asthma and my completely farked up immune system my doctor at Johns Hopkins insisted I retake all the childhood vaccinations after I had a bout of whooping cough that just about carried me off. Freaking anti-vaxxers endanger everyone.

  • Saraquill

    What did you win? Besides your breakfast exiting your stomach.

  • Mel

    My only concern about that is the value of continual fetal monitoring. I know it’s a pain – but it’s one of the main reasons the number of babies who die during labor in hospitals has reached record lows. Bluntly, if my husband hadn’t been on one, he’d be dead. During the pushing phase, his heart rate plummeted. It should be over 120; he was at 30. The doctor grabbed a vacuum and popped him out. It turns out he had a triple nuchal cord around his neck that was cutting off most of the circulation to his head. His mom remembers his face being a dark purple while his body was grey. Thanks to a neonatal resus team, he was fine within a few minutes.

    But without that heart-tracing….well, he wouldn’t have survived a few more pushes.

  • Saraquill

    I think homicidal thoughts at people who don’t think rubella vaccines are important. I know too much to think otherwise.

  • Trollface McGee

    A headache and an aching palm.

  • B.A.

    Why must these groups always drag the Holocaust into it? That is so offensive. But then,it’s ALL offensive. Lincoln must be rolling over in his grave.

  • B.A.

    You could make up a Duggar Drinking Game out of it!

  • B.A.

    I wouldn’t even let the Duggar girls deliver baby animals,much less humans!

  • B.A.

    I was called retarded,slow,stupid,lazy,etc. I was born in the 60s and none of the terminology even existed,much less proper testing and diagnosis.

  • Trollface McGee

    Yikes, I’d be a raging alcoholic in a single season.

  • Joyce

    There’s a whole group of women who genuinely believe that “trusting
    birth” is all that is needed to deliver safely. And – statistically –
    for most women, that’s true. It’s important to remember, though, that
    when birth goes wrong, serious permanent complications like neonatal
    disability and death happen within minutes

    Living in a big city, I’ve never seen any need for home births. With my first, had I not had modern medical intervention, either my daughter or I, or both of us, would likely have died. And I know too many people who can tell a similar experience. Sorry, I think “nature will take care of things” is naive, at best.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Really? Are there studies showing lower rates of neurological impairment after leaded gasoline disappeared?

  • Astrin Ymris

    But in a world of wireless IT, we could find a way to do continuous fetal monitoring WITHOUT encumbering laboring women’s freedom of movement.

    That is, if we viewed women’s comfort as being important enough to invest the time and money to do this. 😛

  • Joyce

    two notes about Catholics and birth control:

    1. The Catholic Church came within a hair’s width of approving birth control in the 1960s, but pulled back for one hideously superstitious and parochial reason. Read all about it at: http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/secrethistory.asp (So you can thank those few priests for the mess that the Supreme Court in the US has created).

    2. My daughters went to Catholic school (for non-religious reasons–I’m not even a little Catholic), and the parish priest gave a talk to the grade 6 & 7 parents on “Your kids and sex” (or some such title). I sat and took notes. This dour, humourless, and generally very conservative priest said, basically, that the church actually “allows” birth control as long as you don’t use it for selfish reasons. Well, I’ve seen A LOT of selfish reasons that people DO have kids, and considering that we are all using the earth’s resources up at an astonishing rate, I think we can all get a pass with that line of thinking . . . . . .

    And let me add that after 12 years at this Catholic school, where about 75% of the families followed the faith, there was one family with 7 kids, and another with 8, and one that I knew of with 5 . . . and the rest of us had 1, 2, or 3 kids. I’m pretty sure Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as everyone else.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Re: “…I’m pretty sure Catholics use birth control at about the same rate as everyone else…”

    According to Guttmacher, that’s the case.

    (Warning! PDF file)

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf

    If I’ve crunched the numbers right, 87% of Catholic women use Vatican-prohibited contraception. They’re slightly more likely to use Natural Fertility Planning– 2% of Catholic women use it, as opposed to 1% for all other groups. But really, it’s all much of a muchness.

    Well, except for the fact that 41% of Protestant Evangelicals use sterilization, as opposed to 34-23% for all other groups. That’s rather interesting.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    I haven’t had the opportunity to talk to a midwife myself, haven’t been pregnant either, so I do appreciate the answers to my questions that might seem a little silly. 🙂

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    My mom had chickenpox as a kid, but my dad, my brother, and I have not. Even though when my cousins had it our parents encouraged us to play with them hoping to get it out of the way, and even with both of my parents being exposed to chickenpox at least once a school year for 40 years. I got the two-dose chickenpox vaccination when I was 19 “just in case” before starting a classroom teaching assistant job that required many shots and needles prior to the first day on campus – then there was the first day of the summer school assignment when I was bitten and had to go to the ER for what I believe was a tetanus shot…if I had known the kid was under that table I would have stayed clear of that area completely. One of the first things they did that day was to tell me which students had their own assistant and why; the kid under the table was required to have his own assistant for the entire time he was on campus and going to-from school because he was aggressive and quick to get violent, he would bite, and at one point had tried to push a wheelchair bound kid out of the rear door on the bus while it was moving.

    On one hand, I have never gotten a flu shot in my life…and rarely have I gotten the flu and if I do it’s mild; my best friend from childhood gets the flu shot annually and gets the flu at least a couple of times each flu ‘season’ and it’s a lot worse than ‘mild’. On the other, I can’t rationalize not getting vaccinations like the MMR knowing that I’d be adding to the problem that people who really do rely on the ‘herd immunity’ concept more so than I are experiencing thanks to the intentionally anti-vac crowd. I know that the kids and adults who are medically unable to get these vacs are being put at risk by others who can and choose not to based on proven to be incorrect information. When I get the flu I stay home and try not to get others sick, I even make sure to let people know that I am sick so they can choose to be around me or not.

  • That_Susan

    Not silly at all! 🙂 It’s good to look into every option.

  • Mel

    I agree. One confounding /infuriating factor – diehard promoters who neglect to mention that they began using NFP at around age 42. Of course, they still had 1.5 ” surprise” children, but that just proves how much they trust God.

  • Nea

    There probably are, although what I was thinking about was the massive drop in violent crime.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Ah. Well, I suppose– but I’ve also heard the Pill and Roe vs. Wade credited (fewer unwanted children born to resentful parents).

    It’s very hard with social issues to figure out WHICH out of all the variables in our culture induced the change we’re interested in. Heck, it could have been feminism and LGBT rights movements leading to testosterone-fueled young men (the main perpetrators of violent crime) feeling less pressure to prove their manhood by committing violent crime! ;-D

  • Sara Lin Wilde

    I recommend The Skeptical OB to anyone who is interested in a really bluntly critical take on the “home birth” craze – not limited to right-wing types, I’m sorry to say.