Quoting Quiverfull: Just Thinking About ‘It’ Is The Same As Doing ‘It’?

Quoting Quiverfull: Just Thinking About ‘It’ Is The Same As Doing ‘It’? October 30, 2014

kissinglipsby Chad Bird at The Flying Scroll and republished at Ladies Against Feminism – The Affair

This article is talking about the new Showtime Network show “The Affair”. Cannot comment either way about this show as I’ve not seen it. Any readers out there that have watched any of “The Affair” and want to chime in would be most appreciated!

Fantasizing About Adultery is Adultery

Finally, the third delusion is that you can fantasize about having an affair without actually committing adultery. You can live out your fantasy vicariously through Noah and Alison in “The Affair,” or Robert and Francesca in The Bridges of Madison County, or through the million other books and movies that revolve around this theme. But, of course, you don’t need media for these mental games. You can daydream about what you’d like to do with that guy from work who is always flirting with you. You can close your eyes while you’re having sex with your wife and imagine she is that newfound friend that’s stirring feelings within you that you thought had died long ago. The heart is the bed where most adultery takes place. As Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart,” (Matthew 5:27-28). If you’re imagining that life with the other person might make you happy; if you’re romanticizing about him or her; then you have already betrayed your spouse. You have willfully chosen to adulterate in your heart. And your heart has your body on a leash; where your heart goes, your body is sure to follow.

That would make reading something like, say, “Fifty Shades of Grey” the same as having an affair?

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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NLQ Recommended Reading …

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

13:24 – A Story of Faith and Obsession by M Dolon Hickmon




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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nea

    If thinking about it is the same as doing it, then I am proud to confess my long-standing torrid relationship with Benedict Cumberbatch. Now, if he only knew I existed…

  • Em

    I think they already said not to read fifty shades, because you might remember how much better you are at masturbating than your husband is at sex, or something like that. Either way, both sad and hilarious.

  • Hey! That can’t be true. He and I are having a thought affair! *heartbroken*

  • I can’t with this thought process. I really bought into this, even as I grew away from my Christian faith. But we all have thoughts and even impulses. As human beings, we are fully capable of interpreting them and deciding the morality of the incident ourselves.

  • Saraquill

    So when my mom and I are talking about how many babies her sheep and quails are making… Ewwww.

  • SAO

    If you have a healthy marriage, it can withstand a few stray sexual thoughts about someone who is not your spouse. In fact, since everyone has them, what they are really advocating is lying to yourself.

    Unhappy marriages can be at risk from thoughts about how this or that person would make a much better spouse, but the problem is not the thoughts, it’s whatever’s wrong with your marriage in the first place.

  • texcee

    I guess I’m screwed due to all those lust-filled daydreams I used to have about Harrison Ford…

  • Catherine

    Well…if someone’s already sinned by just thinking about the act–they might as well do it?
    Yeah…I don’t think that logic was followed all the way through.

  • That cheater, having both of you as girlfriends at the same time!

  • I think the good reason not to read Fifty Shades is because, according to readers who know the dynamics of abuse, it pictures an abusive relationship between a stalker who does not take no for an answer, who is jealous and controlling, who threatens his partner while having the power to carry out those threats, who gives his inexperienced partner too much alcohol so her ability to consent is lessened, etc. (In one case, he even hits his pregnant partner on her pregnant belly, with a whip.)

    Here are a page of links to various sources that see the abuse in it: http://50shadesisabuseblogring.wordpress.com/the-links/

    But reading the book is not like having an affair.

  • chromesthesia

    ewwwww Why do people READ THAT BOOK? Men who are bossy and are jerks ARE NOT SEXY!

  • chromesthesia

    wait. HE HIT HER ON HER BELLY? WTF?! Why do people like this? I’d rather bathe in scorpions.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Speaking as someone in two long distance relationships…No, thinking about sex is not the same as having it.

    And your heart has your body on a leash; where your heart goes, your body is sure to follow.

    My heart really wants some Starbucks right now. My brain knows I can’t have some because Starbucks is on the other side of the city and roommate has the car. But, according to this line of thinking, you guys won’t be hearing from me for awhile. I’ll be in jail for stealing a car and going to get a white chocolate mocha anyways.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Mine’s with Orlando Bloom as Legolas. Or maybe Keira Knightly…I must be highly adulterous.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Also, not acting on them. These types talk about how people who believe evolution think we’re all animals but they reduce us to animals quite often.

  • I always found Aragorn MUCH more… uhm… “entertaining” than Legolas. Why have a boy when you can have a man? *chuckle* Though, I gotta say that Mr. Bloom certain grew into one HELL of a man over the years.

  • *reads*
    *bursts out laughing madly*
    I *wrote* smut, you pompous arse! And I never cheated on my husband, no matter HOW miserable I am in this sham of a marriage. Now that I’m planning my escape, though, I’m realizing that maybe I have more options than I thought I did back when I believed the bullshit you’re peddling.

    And for the record, starting on Saturday I’m going to be writing smut *again*. Because smut can mean word count and by all that is holy, I’m going to reach that damned finish line in NaNoWriMo this year!!! And I shall find a way to publish that smut! Because well-written smut CAN be marketable!!

    Because fantasies are HARMLESS and what Jesus was condemning was *leering* at someone because arrogant jerkwads are full of bloody privilege and feel damned entitled to anything they see!

    *grumbles* Pompous jackwagon.

  • It seems like every other sentence reveals another aspect of our animal nature.

  • Allison the Great

    Shit, I’m practically married to Thomas Kretschmann. He’s over 20 years older than me but I don’t give a shit.

  • Extremely odd. These people have taken Jesus’ words so far beyond their scope that they’re hardly recognizable.

  • Allison the Great

    If only thinking about boning them was the same thing as boning them. I’d be a massive slut. That’s actually really cool. It’s Mind Whoredom. Shit, if thinking about it were the same as doing it, I’d think about it all the time. That sounds awesome!
    I can’t be serious about this post, I’m laughing so hard right now. So many awful thoughts are going through my head right now.

  • Nea

    So much this!

  • Mirella222

    Off topic, but for your writing, have you considered self publishing? I’ve never done it, but apparently self publishing on Kindle is pretty lucrative for the romance/erotica genres. There’s no query letters, no sending manuscripts to publishers, and apparently you get to keep something like 70% of the profits. That’s just what I’ve heard about it in a friend-of-a-friend of mine did it and I heard about it…..but it’s something to look into at least??

  • B.A.

    LMFAO!!! I guess I’m a mindwhore,too. I like fantasizing. It sure beats the hell out of obsessing about problems.

  • Mermaid Warrior

    What if one were to fantasize about a person that doesn’t exist? Since it wouldn’t even be possible to be with that person, does it still count as bad?

    Also, if fantasizing is the same as doing, does this mean I AM a kickass fantasy hero?!

  • Mermaid Warrior

    Yeah, romance and erotica have done pretty well on ebook self-publishing. The genres have always been high selling and high demand. What’s more, self-publishing is often stated to be a good option for people who write niche work, and many of the successful romance/erotica authors on Kindle write niche stuff. You know, it doesn’t have a big enough audience for a publishing company to take on, but still enough for an author to make money.

  • Mermaid Warrior

    And I’m gonna drop my entire life, get a boat, and spend the rest of my life studying and swimming with the orcas of the Gulf of Mexico! No matter the practicality, sense, or legality!

  • Mermaid Warrior

    It’s also just plain badly written, and a poor depiction of BDSM at that.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Wow, if that were true, that means I’m one, too! Mega-cool.

    ;-D

  • I’m definitely considering it. Still trying to figure out what all I can do myself and what I’m going to have to find someone to help me with, but it looks like that’s going to be my best bet.

    My plan for NaNo is a slightly… okay REALLY… tongue-in-cheek Meta approach to preventing the End of Days by reaching 50k words by the finish line… only the Devil is moving up the timeline because the Alpha and the Omega is due to arrive on the 21st. It has the benefit of justifying EVERY trick in the book and being hilariously bad for a REASON!

    It starts at midnight tonight. I could use some happy thoughts!

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Mrs. Grizzley, I’ll send you happy Nano thoughts if you send me some. I do Nano every year for the past 11 and have only finished twice..plus I am switched the subject for this years attempt mere days before. Truly flying by the seat of my pants this time.

  • Gladly! I’ve had a bad run the last couple of years myself. I’m actually *guessing* that I managed to make the finish line on Generations since I can no longer remember and my copy of the manuscript has been edited to pull out all the damn “filler” that I’d been adding for word count.

    The only advice I have, to be honest, is that smut can eat up word count like nothing else I have ever seen

    Also, any other NaNos out there, my account name there is the same one as here and I accept all Buddy Requests. *sending happy thoughts in gallon-jugs of pixie dust*

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    My name there is bluesinthenight and I have written smut in the past but the last five years go with straight up who done its.. this year I will writing another one involving a Jimmy-Swaggart like televangelist surrounded by dead bodies. No smut this time but I am betting that my descriptions of the town as I went to college there and lived there post college will burn up a lot of words.

  • Sounds like fun. I need to fabricate a pseudo-Fundigelical “Chosen One” for a story at some point, someone to have making his “grand return” to the ministry after a scandal broke and all that. Lots of wish fulfillment, but that’s what stories are for.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    THe one I had been planning had too much wish fulfillment in it..I was going to do a story about a woman finding a man under a large fallen tree branch on her farm near the Appalachia Trail during a snow storm. He was going to have amnesia and no id, there was going to be reluctant romance, sexual tension and then some smut before finding out who he was… but I found my notes I’d written over twenty years ago with the idea of writing a “Jimmy Swaggart Murder Mystery”

  • Jewel

    No you’re both wrong! It’s Sean Bean as Boromir!! 🙂 I am his fifth wife. 😉

  • Jewel

    It is a depiction of a horribly abusive relationship. I was once fascinated with this book until I took a good look at it. It’s not pretty.

  • Ouch… I’m sorry… the life of a widow is difficult, isn’t it? /snark
    Seriously, Sean Bean dies in EVERYTHING he’s part of. But yes, I do admit to seeing where the appeal comes from. He’s *definitely* on the “Man” side of the spectrum.

  • Jewel

    I know some others may not agree with me, but I think there is a very fine line here. No, thinking about adultery is NOT the same as committing it, BUT, obsessing about it, thinking about it with different people continuously, making comments about other women/men continuously can be a symptom of someone who is unfaithful or willing to be unfaithful if the opportunity arose. I say this as someone who has been hurt by infidelity in more than one relationship, so maybe I am a bit jaded.

    It is normal to have passing thoughts about other people, and if you’re single, as I am now – heck, maybe that’s all you have (hello, Sean Bean, as I mentioned below in another post!). But if you are married or in a relationship or the other person you are thinking about is, you really do have to be careful about dwelling on those thoughts, or it could be a prescription for disaster.

    I hope I don’t come off as self-righteous in saying this! And it is definitely NOT from a religious or legalistic view that I am seeing it. Just as a woman who has been hurt by one too many men who can’t keep their minds OR their bodies faithful. 🙁

  • ShinyZubat

    Yes, you beat me to it. There is BDSM and then there is abuse. The relationship in that book is all abuse. If anyone feels inclined to read it for themselves, please do the world a favor and borrow the book as opposed to buying it. Do not reward E.L. James, or the publisher for releasing that awful book.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    The thing that bothers about the 50 shades of meh/gah! is how often the media likes to mention its popularity among what they term “the average suburban mom/wife/housewife”…it also gives the impression that women in general are secretly into men who are strong abusive types who take charge and thus return to their feminine role which they never knew they longed for all along. If those predisposed to believe that the role of men is to be in charge and the role of women is to serve men, and the inclination to be abusive in their actions continue to get these kinds of things that reinforce their views, they seem to only get louder and more insistent about creating a world in which their actions and views are the standard.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    The entertainment industry knows the importance of carefully crafted marketing and its role in making money. I don’t know what the publisher of 50-kinds-of-ick was thinking (besides…”hey, if this sells, I’m going to make a crapload of money!”) but in between the deafening surround sound, the endless previews, and nothing worth the admission price that I want to go to the movies to see…I’m hoping that it tanks at such a subterranean level that it disappears never to be released on dvd/bluray-on demand. I know it’ll be an expensive mistake for the production company and not great for poor Dakota Johnson’s future career trajectory, but thank goodness Charlie Hunnam was smart enough to quit it while he could.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Actually, the plot of ’50 Shades’ is identical to Debi’s ‘Created To Be His Help Meet’– be totally submissive and remain adoring through egregious abuse, and eventually he’ll turn into a loving and sensitive partner.

    It’s possible that the CPM is torqued that someone stole their shtick, and packaged it far more profitably than they’ve been able to manage! ;-D

    As far as the commercial success of ’50 Shades’ “proving” anything about “what all women REALLY want” goes… well, let’s just say that most people don’t read fiction in the same way fundies read the Bible. As a teenager, I read Fern Michael’s romances avidly for the pr0n, while simultaneously feeling distaste for the sexist and rape culture elements, and rejecting the ethic behind them.

    On second thought, isn’t that EXACTLY how would-be Christian Patriarchs read the Bible? They glom onto the parts that get them hot, reading them over and over, while ignoring the liberal and progressive parts which don’t float their boats?

  • I also think it plays into dangerous stereotypes, while the real reasons people read it is closer to: many women want to fantasize about sex, and reading about it is safer than finding an actual guy. Many women also would like to have money, and this book contains a billionaire. In books, you can skip the parts you dislike and relish in the parts you like, so you can miss the bad in a book easily. (Someone even claim the book is popular because it is so badly written that it puts readers in a state where they don’t concentrate on the horrors when first reading it.)

    And many women actually do play into gender stereotypes – not because they were born that way as sexists claim (not gendered actions –> roles/ stereotypes), but because society conditioned them that way (roles/ stereotypes –> gendered actions).

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    I haven’t conducted an extensive survey so this is all just my assumptions based on the limited (comparatively) experiences that I have in my life to draw from, but I can’t come up with even one woman that I know who managed to read 50 shades of Abusive D^ckhead in its entirety.

    I can’t ignore that there are women and men who clearly fit the ‘standard’ gender role stereotypes, I just find myself more compelled to marvel in the contrast presented by every individual I encounter who is actively fighting the good fight for acceptance of who they are. They are ‘atypical’ or something other than the ‘norm’, born that way, conditioned to be, or a combination they are who they are.

    I’m probably weird, but even if a book is the worst 200+ pages of words I’ve ever had the misfortune of starting to read – I don’t jump around or quit reading it before reaching the end. Fantasizing about sex seems like it’d be a lot easier to watch internet porn vs reading the sexy time parts of 50 shades of sh@t, or if a billionaire is someone’s ‘thing’ they could try a dating service for that type of relationship. But even the sexy time parts in 50 shades are liberally laced with the horrendous so how a reader can masturbate to every third or fourth sentence is a mystery.