Quoting Quiverfull: What Age is ‘Too Young’ to Spank?

Quoting Quiverfull: What Age is ‘Too Young’ to Spank? October 4, 2014

smackby Michael Pearl from No Greater Joy – Too Young To Spank?

Let me give you an example of the application of the “rod of training.” A six-month-old throws his food bowl on the floor because he doesn’t like what is in it. This is the early stage of self-will and defiance. If the little guy gets away with it and if his parents don’t constrain him to do otherwise, then they are normalizing such behavior. Furthermore, they are allowing the seeds of defiance to grow in the child’s soul. Rebuke here would not be effective, nor would punishment. The child would not make any connection between his action and any suffering that you inflicted. If he were spanked hard enough to create significant pain, he would become so distracted with the pain and so fearful and emotionally disturbed that he could not be trained to any end. Remember, the child is simply expressing his will by dumping the food in the floor. I have had food set before me that I felt like dumping on the floor, but it would have been socially embarrassing to take that action. The child has no social consciousness, so he does whatever he feels like. Dumping it is not a great offense for a six-month-old, but he will not always be six months old, and it won’t be cute for long. It will make you downright mad when he is three years old and flings a whole plate of food into your lap.

So we watch him, knowing his propensity to selfish compulsion. When he seizes his bowl with intentions of dumping it, swat the offending hand with a little instrument (light wooden spoon, rubber spatula, flexible tubing less than a quarter inch in diameter, or any instrument that will cause an unpleasant sting without leaving any marks). As you swat the offending hand, say “No” in a normal commanding voice. The tone is more important than the word―not angry―but decisive. Children understand the temperament in your tone before they are born, and will recognize it. This swat is not punishment. Probably, it will not even cause the little guy to cry. He will be shocked and stop any action in which he is engaged. Explain to him that he is not to throw his food onto the floor. If he again makes an attempt, swat his hand again and say, no. The third time is the charm. He now knows that “No” uttered in a commanding tone, is something serious. He will not try that stunt again—at least not for this meal.

Understand well, if he has already dumped his food onto the floor, it is too late to swat him. He will not make the intellectual association, and any spanking would then be “punishment” for past deeds, entirely counterproductive for a small child. If you didn’t catch him as he was attempting to spill it, then you must put the plate and food back in front of him and be ready to respond when he tries it again. This is training for the purpose of discipline. The child will actually profit emotionally from this exercise, for he is constrained to act in ways that will make him more loved and cause him to find wide approval from everyone he is around. A child with unacceptable habits becomes a rejected child, then a dejected child, and eventually a self-loathing kid who feels that he can never please anyone and that no one likes him. I am sorry the psychologists and secular child advocates don’t get it, but then if all parents practiced child training as I have suggested, there wouldn’t be any need for abnormal psychologists or child protection agencies. A lot of people would move on to more practical kinds of work, and there wouldn’t be any more crime or war.

Yes, we spank our little ones, but only as we define spanking, not as others might imagine it to be. We obey God in applying the rod of training, not because we are gullible and blind religious fools, but because the Word of God has made us wise beyond our secular peers. We know what is good for our children. We know it from experience, our own and the experience of our forefathers who walked in wisdom applying the rod of correction to our backsides. Some of us don’t remember any of the much-talked-about “cruel beatings” that are attributed to our “strong disciplinarian” forefathers. We remember loving parents who cared for our souls. They applied the rod with firmness and dignity. To us, they represented the law of God, and they stood for everything that was good and wholesome. They called us to the higher path and chastened us when they felt we needed a little reminder to walk by the rule of law rather than by our passions. Today, we thank them, just as our children now thank us. Since our Heavenly Father chastens us (Hebrews 12), could we do otherwise than to emulate his child-training methods?

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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  • Nea

    Well, it’s nice to see that he finally admits in writing that he has redefined the word spanking to mean only what he means, that makes him superior. He’s just as wrong as when he redefines hitting an infant with a switch as not actually counting as hitting an infant, but at least his pride (and lack of grasp of English) is finally right there in irrefutable black and white.

  • Anonyme

    “This is the early stage of self-will and defiance.”
    Self-will. Wouldn’t want that. And it couldn’t possibly be that Baby is just developing fine motor skills, is playing, or learning cause and effect (what happens if I do X?). You know, learning the building blocks of survival.

    “The child will actually profit emotionally from this exercise….”

    Or learn to bottle up his/her emotions because one toe out of line, even if its just harmless kid behavior, will result in pain.

    “I am sorry the psychologists and secular child advocates don’t get it,if all parents practiced child training as I have suggested, there wouldn’t be any need for abnormal psychologists or child protection agencies.”

    What is this?..I can’t even…This combination of smug pride, derision and idiocy is beyond my comprehension. Yes, you’re right, Mr. Pearl, if my parents had whipped me, instead of letting me talk to those evil psychologists to work on my ‘issues’ (as a result of ADD, Asperger’s and general emotional insecurity), I NEVER would have gone through clinical depression, suicidal thoughts or feeling like an outcast.

    Methinks Michael just wants the CPA to disappear forever so he can instruct others to beat their children without fearing any recrimination.

    Also…the “no more crime or war” bit…that’s a level of stupid I can’t even find words for.

    Ok, I’m done. I’m going to Emergency Kitten to get that pile of BS out of my mind. http://emergencykitten.com/ (You can refresh the page to get a new kitten, so keep doing it until you can recover from this bile 😀 )

  • Nefercat

    “if all parents practiced child training as I have suggested, there wouldn’t be any need for abnormal psychologists or child protection agencies … and there wouldn’t be any more crime or war.

    “… in applying the rod of training… the Word of God has made us wise beyond our secular peers.
    Malignant narcissism, anyone? With a splash of grandiosity?

  • Dandi-Doo

    I am to creeped out and mad to make a coherent respond to this…person…who thinks it’s ok to beat a toddler.

  • Anonyme

    I’m also trying to figure out what he means by ‘abnormal psychologists’. is he saying all psychologists are abnormal, or referring to ones that work with “abnormal” behavior?

  • What a douchewad. I hereby challenge Mr. Pearl to try his training on me, an adult who can stand up for herself, instead of encouraging the bullying of small children. Not that he’ll take me up on it. IMHO, the man is waayyy too much of a effin’ coward.

  • Saraquill

    I’m waiting for him to justify punching pregnant women in the stomach in the name of “improving” both woman and fetus.

    Me, I say waiting until after conception is too late. Go for (Michael’s) testicles!

  • Saraquill

    Thank you for the link.

  • BaronessBlack

    Wait! Current recommendation is that babies should not have solid food before 6 months. So, the Pearls think that a 6 month old baby should be able to behave as an adult would, with the very first solid food they come into contact with?
    These two are just like every other child abuser trying to find an excuse for their actions. I think it’s criminal that their books are still sold.

  • I don’t think he *knows* what the current recommendation is. And I’m not entirely certain that he would *care* even if he did know. His go-to is that if a child is doing something he doesn’t like, beat them until they do. Which is abominable.

  • Trollface McGee

    If we beat our kids more, we wouldn’t have any more crime or war…
    Well, an idiot interpreting a thousand year old text said so, so it must be right!

  • Trollface McGee

    If a fetus can understand… then what? Intra-uterine plumbing line to stamp out the defiance early?
    To the testicles… with a battering ram!

  • Jenny Islander

    It’s been observed before that if somebody had taken Michael Pearl aside a long, long, long time ago and told him that the desire to cause pain and see people cringe can be exercised in the company of consenting adults who will willingly play the part of the victim, then the world would have been spared a lot of misery. I used to agree. But it’s pretty clear from the things he lets slip that he would’ve ended up blacklisted from every club within driving distance of wherever he happened to live. Can you imagine this horrible old ass deigning to observe something as beneath him as a safe word?

  • Nea

    Right now I’m reading Dreams of Joy by Lisa See, about life in Maoist China. The word “expert” is used not to denote actual expertise but being “unspoiled” by education or training.

    That’s the kind of expert Mikey Pearl is.

  • Nea

    I’d missed the “no more crime” bit the first time around. So apparently no criminal ever- including the very famous preachers caught in sexual misconduct were ever spanked? Riiiiiiiiiight.

  • Nea

    And negotiations with a sub? He’s not big on negotiations.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    From what I understand most abnormal psychologists are the “doing research at universities or for/at government agencies.

    Pearl most likely thinks that they’re all abnormal and practicing quackery, and wouldn’t know what actually happens when a person goes to a psychologist or that there are various types/occupational differences whatsoever even if he were to see it all up close. Michael Pearl doesn’t need no quacks and enjoys instructing others in how to abuse their children just like he did with his, after all he beat them into submission and they didn’t turn out too bad right?

  • bekabot

    Yes, we spank our little ones, but only as we define spanking, not as others might imagine it to be.

    So much for the death of relativism. So much for firm definitions and standards.

    “Yes, we kill our enemies, but only as we define it, not as others might imagine killing to be.”

    “Yes, we cheat our opponents, but only as we define it, not as others might imagine cheating to be.”

    “Yes, occasionally we dip into the church kitty, but that’s only as we define it, not as others might imagine embezzlement to be.”

    “Yes, we grope our parishioners, but that’s only as we define it, not as others might imagine groping to be.”

    Et cetera.

    Though I think what Michael Pearl is really saying is: “Shoot, I know enough not to rub out my own kids. If you’re stupid enough to kills yours then you’ve got the kind of genes that shouldn’t be passed on.”

  • Trollface McGee

    Ew and I just remembered the fucker does prison ministry… The idea that he thinks they’re in there because they didn’t get beaten enough and is potentially teaching them to beat their kids when they get out… If only he were an inmate instead of a visitor *sigh*

  • teaisbetterthanthis

    Emergency Kitten is now on my bookmarks bar. Because it’s important.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Mine too! If I’d known about Emergency Kitten earlier, I wouldn’t have blown out my wrist with endless games of computer Mah Jongg yesterday.

    Thanks, Anonyme, for the new coping skill! It’s possible that there wouldn’t any more crime and war if everyone used Emergency Kitten when they felt hostile or stressed.


  • Astrin Ymris

    Are any of the Pearl offspring living above the poverty level?

  • Astrin Ymris

    Not even a toddler– a lot of 6-month-olds can’t even crawl yet.

    Notice how he’s citing just enough development psychology to give his “advice” with a thin patina of apparent reasonableness?

  • KarenH

    A lot of 6 month olds can’t even sit up unsupported yet. My grandson is 7 months old and just mastered that one. (and he’s a genius! 😀 )

  • Nea

    None that I know of, and some of them are living so far below it as to qualify for Third World poverty, considering that they have no electricity or water.

    Despite the Pearl pater’s bragging, I’m not sure that Michael and Debi are living all that high on the hog either. Yeah, they have land and electricity, but if they were making money, would Debi have needed to beg others for what Michael obviously couldn’t provide to his “queen”?

  • Astrin Ymris

    That’s what happens to kids when you insist on instant, unquestioning obedience in all aspects of life on pain of a beating– you beat the self-confidence, initiative and risk-taking ability needed to navigate adulthood out of them. 🙁

    Michael doesn’t seem to be too good at managing money, as shown by his buying costly cuts of meat when he was desperately poor. And letting their health insurance lapse in protest of Obamacare? Dumb move. Besides, Samaritan Ministries offers a “biblical” health care plan he could have enrolled in. But Michael refuses any advice or input that might help him in this area. He knows best… always. Because Bible.

    So Michael may have built the mini-mansion during a brief period of prosperity, without giving a thought to putting anything away for a rainy day, or budgeting for insurance. Then after book sales began to flag and donations slowed down, he was left “land poor”.

    Alternatively, he could share the entitlement attitude of many Rescue Adopters that it’s other people’s job to squeeze their budget and do without to fund their adoption, so that they don’t have to dip into their savings to complete their international adoption “debt free” (and financially flush).

  • At least I now what’s wrong with my sister and I. Our parents never whipped us. We are both willful, hard-headed individuals who are determined to have our own way in life. Neither one of us are submissive. Bad parenting, I guess.

  • Nea

    When does Michael ever think ahead? The stories of his life, from the honeymoon to the cat food move, show one long string of impulsive actions with poor results that it’s somehow someone else’s responsibility to make work out. He can’t even keep a coherent message in his advice books beyond “hitting is fun” – everything else gets contradicted in another chapter.

    Heck, we know straight from Michael that thinking and judging context is so terrifying that he almost had a religious crises in college. When an unaccredited school is asking too much intellectual rigor, you know his reasoning is weak, and he admits right up front that he wanted simple, unchanging rules to lean on that didn’t require any thinking on his part.

    And then he thinks he has the ability to give advice!

    Did they really let their health insurance lapse because of Obamacare? Or is that just this week’s reason? Because I thought Debi gave it up as a sacrifice when money got ti- I mean, when she was convicted to give more to the ministry.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    That’s a good question, and one I honestly don’t have an answer to.

    What I do know is best summarized as “things I learned mainly through education and the remainder via life experience.”…I grew up in a middle class home with both my parents teachers with 40 year careers in the classroom. If they hadn’t been so responsible with money, we would have certainly struggled more, but because they *were* so responsible, I had nice things (though they were bought when there was money to do so, not all year every week etc) got a job in HS so I could get my license, then paid my mom to buy her old car, etc. – they did their best to impart upon me what responsible money management looks like and how it is done. They have helped me financially even as an adult well beyond 18, whether it was helping me obtain a mortgage with a lot less interest based on their teaching careers and putting money I inherited into an account so it would be there and then some for when I actually bought the place I live in now, to writing the checks for the private practice psychiatrist that I see for management and medication to treat my bipolar disorder. That alone is an expensive opportunity that I wouldn’t have without them – if I were seeing someone that is covered by my insurance, it would be months between 15 minute long appointments and even if the doctor was of the same caliber as the one I saw for 10 years or the one I see now they wouldn’t have the time to demonstrate that skill because there would be a waiting room overflowing with other patients they had to see. I guess it could be said that I’ve got hands-on experience, as a patient, with psychologists and psychiatrists – and learned quite a bit on my own because I want to be involved and engaged in my treatments beyond merely getting meds prescribed. Staying on top of what advances they make and what options I have in the event that my current medication regime becomes less effective in time is important to me. My parents are very much Christian, but they’ve always recognized that some things require a doctor and mental illness doesn’t go away with prayer. They’ve even heard me out at times when I felt that either they’d misunderstood a situation or just hadn’t thought of what my side of things felt or what it looked like. Considering how many parents react to the news that their child is bipolar (though I was already over 18 when I was diagnosed) the response mine have had over the years has been commendable even in the rougher moments.

    I doubt very much that any child would truly thrive in a home like the Pearl’s tell people they have and that they should create themselves with their horrible books, I know that I wouldn’t and that’s just because I ask too many questions, need reasons for doing things beyond “because I said so and now I will beat you into it”, and never have been able to restrict myself to only learning what is presented regardless of whether it comes off as pointedly saying in different words that I might know more than some people in the room. I admit that there have been times in my life where I’ve been the classic “too smart for her own good but unless it’s interesting enough she’s an underachiever”, but I’m incredibly grateful to have been raised by my imperfect but amazing parents. And I’ve turned out pretty darn well, despite not being beaten. I’d be shocked if the Pearl kids turned out even half as well in spite of how their parents treated them.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I read somewhere that “Obamacare” was the reason they “had” to let their health insurance lapse– I can’t remember if they cited the HHS Mandate or the Great Post-ACA Rate Increases (which didn’t actually happen).

    It’s possible that the “Debi was convicted to give the cost of her health insurance to the ministry” is code for “Why bother spending money for health care on a post-meno-pausal women? She’s outlived her only usefulness– time for her to drop dead and free me to marry a fertile and hot young virgin!”

    Michael just failed to consider that Debi might develop a debilitating but non-lethal ailment that negatively impacts her ability to give him the the service he’s used to. As you observed, he really doesn’t think things through.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I think I would have been one of those child abuse casualties myself if I’d been born into a Pearl-type family.

    Given how easy it is for even documented kids to “disappear” without triggering any alarms unless someone comes forward, I find myself wondering how many such deaths occur among the extreme homebirther, homeschooler, homechurcher fringes. 🙁

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    With documented kids these days the technological advances make it harder to ‘disappear’ that kind…undocumented (which I’m taking to mean there’s a record of their existence with the government? please correct me if I’ve interpreted that wrong…) it’s probably as easy to disappear them as it was in the early 80’s and before with the documented kind. This is why it’s important to hold people accountable even if they’re homeschoolers and homebirthers. And even if they get the kid from another country…ESPECIALLY if they get the kid from another country.

  • Nea

    I’m sure they’ve blamed Obamacare – I just think it’s another example of not keeping their story straight. Like Debi forgoing health insurance and also having a decades-long debilitating problem she’d need healthcare for.

  • Nea

    Their kids haven’t thrived, not one of them. None of them have died, but they’re all desperately poor. Some have lower standards of living than their own parents.

  • Nea

    He’s outright said that people tell him in prison that they “wished people loved them enough to have spanked them.” Citation so very f-ing needed.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I was thinking specifically of Erica Parsons– domestic, kinship adoption, her adoptive parents receiving government checks every month for her care– and she STILL drops off the map without a trace, until her adoptive brother goes to authorities and tells them he hasn’t seen her for the better part of two years!

    The aparents’ story is obvious and easily refutable hogwash, but without a body– and no clue where to look for one– there’s no way to prove murder. So law enforcement is throwing the book at them for the checks they’ve been receiving and cashing in the interim. That’s federal fraud in some cases, which might earn them some pretty significant hard time.

  • Baby_Raptor

    You don’t hit kids. Ever. There’s no difference between hitting a kid and hitting an adult, yet parents supposedly have a “right” to abuse their kids when doing the same to an adult would land them in jail.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Relativism is only bad when you’re using “moral relativism” to describe people who don;t adhere to your translation of the bible.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Well, fetuses are supposedly people because some pregnant people sing to them…Which implies some understanding…

    On the other hand, that could easily cause a miscarriage, and we both know that “life” in the womb is the only life these people consider worth protecting.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Thank you for linking this. I shared it over at Love, Joy Feminism, with credit to you linking it first.

  • Trollface McGee

    Utterly unsurprising, and still makes me nauseous.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    With the checks being cashed every month and the current state of affairs being that the government doesn’t have enough money to send out someone to investigate what they don’t know about since they can’t even afford to hire/retain enough staff to manage cases involving problems they *do* know about…let’s just say I’m not surprised it took her adoptive brother going to the authorities to just get the a-parents fraud on the radar. The feds *really* hate fraudulent collection of government benefits by people, mostly because they know that it will always be picked up by the media when someone has to be held to account with the citizens over debt and funding cuts…and everyone in the country seems to get really pissed when they find out that the safety net they’re helping to provide is being stolen – it’s one thing if it’s going to the truly needy (even if some won’t admit that they do have empathy like that…) but for it to go to people thanks to fraud, well that’s wrong and of course it has to be the government’s fault for not knowing about it…(sigh) That’s why today’s politicians are so awful in my perspective; they know that a lot of people are upset and simply don’t think about why and what it actually takes to fix things, so they appeal to that anger to get elected and then sit on their asses with the occasional public appearances/media spectacle. Fraud occurs because people who know it’s happening don’t say anything to the appropriate parties or it’s simply not discovered for a while. Then, there’s also the challenge of how to afford to pay enough people to sit there looking for possible fraud when they have other more pressing things to focus on in their budgets.

    These people know at the very least where they last saw her, if not who they left her with/sold her to, or where the body is. I’d imagine that law enforcement and the prosecutor are hoping that if they lean on them enough as the case goes through the court and they know they’re going to prison, they’ll find out where the body/girl is. Or that one of them will be the weak link after some time behind bars and want to make a deal in exchange for the information/testimony. Sometimes court cases really mean “dancing with the devil” in the furtherance of getting justice for victims.

  • Hannah

    Exactly! I wonder if this man’s every spent actual time with a six month old. I’ve worked with children, primarily babies and toddlers, for round about 15 years. By the time a child is old enough to be dumping food on the floor to ‘see what happens’, (whether six months old or older), they have the capacity to understand consequences. Our route was, clean up once, ask if they’re all done (sign language if they knew it, offering more and headshakes if they didn’t). If they want more, it comes with a warning that they’ll be done if they do it again. I’ve never seen a child get upset at losing food without understanding that it is a consequence for dumping.

    That said, this is a man who thinks a *maybe/maybe not yet* sitting up infant is being given the types of food that can be thrown, and has the motor skills to throw it deliberately. That in and of itself shows just how little he actually knows about children. And if you don’t know a thing about children and childhood development, how can you possibly know the ‘best’ way to raise them?

  • Hannah

    Hmm… given the neglect some kids go through, I can imagine someone saying that, just meaning they wished someone cared enough about them to discipline them, stop them from going down the wrong path. But I’d also bet good money that if it was said, that person did NOT mean Pearl’s interpretation of spanking.

  • Trollface McGee

    Don’t the Pearls believe that the soul is contained in the sperm or some other phallic-worship mumbo jumbo? Which means, why wait for the fetus? Start early and go for the balls!

  • Astrin Ymris

    I’m pretty sure that at this point Erica is dead. If she wasn’t, then either the Parsons or whoever she’s with would have brought her forward by now; it’s been over a year since the case broke in July 2013.

    The Parsons have been told they can’t get custody of their younger biokids back unless they produce Erica. So if they could produce her without laying themselves open to murder or abandonment charges, they would.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Yup. For anyone curious, Libby Anne posted the video of him out-right saying this here:


    You’d think this idea would seriously mess up their man worship because it makes men responsible for passing on sin and such.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    They’re still in custody (in jail) now? Or are they out on bail while the case against them for the fraud and whatever else is being prepared? If they’re out LEOs may be hoping to catch a break whether it’s from the actions of the Parsons or someone else comes forward. Honestly from the lawyer perspective I’d have wanted them to be denied bail to see if that amps up a willingness to talk in exchange for maybe the death penalty off the table or the shot for parole after 15-25 years. Obviously whoever talked first would be the one who benefits most from an offer.

    Telling them that they have to produce Erica in order to get their younger kids back…have they made any effort to get the kids without that stipulation? I’m not familiar with the specifics so if you have any links to provide I’d love them 🙂

  • Astrin Ymris

    Yes, they’re out on bail… and they HAVE been trying in court to get the younger kids back.



    I know their house was searched, looking for evidence about what happened to Erica. I’d like to know if their computers were seized, too. I’m thinking that Erica might have been “re-homed” like other unsatisfactory adoptees.


  • Astrin Ymris

    But would Debi have dared say to him “I’m in a lot of pain” before the problem became impossible to conceal?

    And if she HAD mentioned it, would Michael have heeded it enough to remember it when he decided to drop her insurance? Remember the story of their honeymoon; Michael’s NOT inclined to pay attention to Debi’s nonverbal cues… or her verbal ones, for that matter.

  • Baby_Raptor

    He’d just tell her to pray about it, probably. Oh, and to stop whining.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    You’d think that they would have mentioned if they’d found some sign that Erica was “re-homed”, but I’m almost certain that they would have seized any computers in the house when they went in looking for evidence.

    The mom appears to have 76 various counts charged against her, the dad not as many but it does say that a polygraph indicated deception when he was asked if he knew what happened to Erica. Maybe he got a little too friendly with her and his wife was pissed about it so she either got rid of her or got rid of her from existence completely. Her actual mother may be a little…odd…but she’s at least been able to let authorities know that the family Erica was supposedly living with aren’t alive. I just wonder what the brother and the two defendants were fighting about that led to him notifying the cops that his sister was MIA.

  • Nea

    i think that she said something and he blew her off, personally. Or she had to pretend that her Leet Herbal Skillz were up to the job. Or she exaggerated her pain.

    Or all of the above.

  • Trollface McGee

    They’re never responsible. If a man sins it’s because of his bad wife, bad mother, feminism, gays, etc. forcing him to sin.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I’ve actually read online comments to the effect that since the teen disclosed after an argument with the APs, this invalidates the info he gave. He was just trying to “make trouble” for his folks.

    This DESPITE the fact that Erica is indisputably missing, no matter what her adoptive brother’s motives might have been. It’s strange how some people’s minds work.

  • gimpi1

    Or, perhaps tell her it’s all Obama’s fault for developing a “socialist” health-insurance system that he was “compelled” to “protest” by canceling their policy.

  • gimpi1

    Me neither. Being strong-willed stood me in good stead during my caregiver-years. Could you do what you need to do for your parents if you weren’t willful and hard-headed? I doubt it.

    Strong-willed people accomplish things. They take care of others. Submission won’t get the hospital staff to pay attention to you.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    Balderdash I say to those online comments that the info the older kid gave was invalidated because it was only after he’d fought with the APs and wanted to make trouble that he shared it with the authorities.

    And poppycock too. Erica is STILL MISSING. She’s not getting any less so merely because the authorities didn’t find out she was gone until the older adoptive son told them, even if it was after a fight with his APs. If his APs could produce the girl or give accurate and verifiable facts on where she went and where she is now – and why they cashed checks that they wouldn’t get if she wasn’t in their physical custody which is what the majority of their charges are stemming from – then THEY WOULDN’T BE IN TROUBLE now would they!?

    (sigh. takes deep breath..) Sorry, I don’t want you to think that I’m yelling at you, but these people make me want there to be a zombie apocalypse only in their area and then we can nuclear bomb it just to keep things contained. That, and it’s been one of those mornings. 😛

  • Astrin Ymris

    Well, it IS the only way to make sure… ;-D

    Seriously, that’s a classic way of invalidating legitimate complaints about abuse– say that the person bringing the complaint is “emotional” or “bitter” or something like that. Someone– I think maybe Ellen?– mentioned that just today.

    (((Concepcionimmaculada – The10th)))

  • Astrin Ymris

    Somehow, I’m sure that there are a whole slew of people in prison who’ve been spanked– many quite abusively. It’s possible that such inmates simply don’t seek private counseling with the author of TTUAC. Or that a lot of prisoners tell Michael whatever he wants to hear, in hope of either attention, favors, or just to mess with Michael’s mind.

    Alternatively, Michael could just be full of shit. 😛