Quoting Quiverfull: Pampering Your Child is Not Love?

Quoting Quiverfull: Pampering Your Child is Not Love? January 23, 2015

quotingquiverfullby J.C. Ryle from his book Training Children: It Starts With Love as quoted by Kelly Crawford of Generation Cedar

Editor’s note: Why is it that every time some Quiverfull cultural enforcer or speaker starts talking of training children that they immediately demonize the child, such as Voddie Baucham did yesterday in R.L. Stollar’s ‘The Child as Viper’? There’s no room for simply loving your children, participating in life with your children without a constant subcontext of evil, no room for the freedom to make mistakes or learning opportunities, or those moments when you lovingly indulge your child because you love them and want to show that. It’s all beat the evil out or deny that child anything that speaks of loving actions. Almost like they really hate children.

Constant spoiling doesn’t do a child any favors, but it’s usually rooted in some version of love, not the hate these people seem to love to claim that non-believers have for their children

“Soul love is the soul of all love. To pet and pamper and indulge your child, as if this world was all he had to look to, and this life the only season for happiness–to do this is not true love, but cruelty. It is treating him like some beast of the earth, which has but on world to look to, and nothing after death. It is hiding from him that grand truth, which he ought to be made to learn from his very infancy,–that the chief end of his life is the salvation of his soul and to glorify God by enjoying Him forever.” J.C. Ryle

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, influential bloggers and cultural enforcers and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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  • SAO

    I treat my kids well, you pamper yours and she spoils hers rotten.

    Actually, I think the issue is jealousy. Parents with one to three kids have a lot more time for their kids, more money to give them materials things, and notice more. Besides, we pagans do all the wrong things and end up with fine kids anyway.

    When my son was small, if he was whiney and uncooperative, I learned to review when he’d last eaten and how much. Often, I’d realize the problem was too little lunch, too long ago. So, I’d feed him rather than discipline him for being whiney and uncooperative. He always turned back into a cheerful and helpful boy. He’s grown up to be a cheerful and helpful young man.

  • Nea

    Teaching children that they have value, that they are worth listening to, that they have rights, is pretty much antithetical to the whole “you are my property and I will treat you as I please” set of actions we see over and over.

    Patriarchy is all about control. You can’t control someone who has options outside of you, even options for their own thoughts In their own head.

  • BlueVibe

    Well, no–spoiling your child is not love. But there is a lot of territory between “spoiling” and “beating”. The problem is the mindset that if you’re not switching your child for every eyeroll, you’re spoiling her. Listening to your child and treating him or her as a valuable human is not spoiling. Flexibility is not spoiling.

  • BlueVibe

    Re: “Beast of the earth–spoiling your dog is not love, either. Failure to provide a safe and loving but structured life for dogs is a major reason they end up at the pound. THat still doesn’t make it a moral choice or a sensible idea to hit your dog, though.

  • Amarad

    >So much< of babies and small kids being whiny or uncooperative comes from either being wet, cold/hot, tired or hungry, but not being able to fully verbalize that. That's one of the many reasons I hate Pearls methods.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I Googled– J.C. Ryles was an Anglican bishop who died in 1900.

    Once again, CPM reveals its fascination with the Victorian Era.

  • gimpi1

    Well said.

  • Astrin Ymris

    And of course, they can deny assistance to “sinners” unless they “repent” if that happens.

    The only reason more religious charities aren’t doing this today is because they’d lose the government funds they receive if they don’t provide aid in a nonsectarian manner. If it weren’t for that control, there’d be a lot more “religious charities” demanding that married LGBTs split up and single mothers give up their babies for adoption in order to get assistance.

  • Edie Moore McGee

    You know, there’s no reason to treat kids as “less than” because they are children. My husband and I have one child and more than adequate family income. (We didn’t set out to have an “only,” but China changed its rules in 2006 and we became medically unqualified.) We can do some nice things for and with our daughter, who is, by the way, a really nice kid. She always gets included in nice vacations and occasional fancy restaurant meals. She gets lots of dance lessons every week (and those costumes and shoes aren’t cheap) and wears clothes she likes. I can say “yes” to most of her requests, e.g., some friends wanted her to join them on a ski trip, we do all the school trips including the option ones, she has an iPhone, Kindle, computer, etc.
    Occasionally, I get pretty serious and totally unsolicited grief from other parents (and from people without children!!) about spoiling her. MYOB, people. We wouldn’t do it if we couldn’t afford to do it, and she knows — she’s definitely been told — she’s one lucky kid (and not because she’s adopted). I’ve never seen one whiff of entitlement attitude from her and she’s turning 13 in a month (so she’s a bona fide adolescent). So much of this baloney is rooted in jealousy.

  • Edie Moore McGee

    I noticed the same thing about naps and reasonable bedtimes, SAO. I think 90% of the acting out in public is because Junior needs to rest.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Oh I agree! I used to get grief at my old church for how close my youngest and I are and the fact that I made sure she had things like a cell phone and all sorts of things/treats. It’s jealous and it sure did not spoil my daughter. She’s 23 and works at a university while working on her MBA. She’s turned out to be a very nice person with a good work ethic and morals without the stingy controlling parenting practiced in QF or by Fundigelicals!

  • Saraquill

    She was the child who was very sick when she was younger, right? I fail to see how a little kid who’s going through a scary experience is bad because s/he wants to cling to a parent for security.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Yes, we almost lost her to meningitis and a bleeding disorder when she was 4. I took tremendous heat at church for our clinging together like that. Looking back I have to say there was some jealousy at play during that time. I cannot imagine why anyone would feel so threatened by a mother taking care of an ill child that they would advice the mother to beat the child. That was when I was given Michael Pearls book with the advice to use it. So glad I ignored it.

  • Saraquill

    I supposed you could have used the book for toilet paper, but I doubt your parts did anything to deserve that level of punishment.

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    The stuff that they consider pampering and spoiling is pretty ridiculous in the first place. When my daughter was in high school it was discovered she had a thyroglossal duct cyst that needed surgical removal. Before I picked her up from the hospital the next day I put some things on her bed, a new book she’d been wanting, a silly stuffed animal and a few other boredom busts/recovery things and made sure I had her favorite comfort foods. I was on the edge of leaving our old church and one of busy bodies stopped back to ask if there was anything the church could do, saw what I was doing re getting those few things put in a basket and laid on her pillow and started criticizing me to my face that I was spoiling my daughter. I did the same thing when my son had his two bouts of ACL surgery and for the husband.. they just never got that this was one of the ways I would care for my family when they were seriously ill or recovering from surgery.

  • Friend

    We bought our son a winter jacket for Christmas. He quickly lost it, said he was sorry, and asked for another one just like it. When I tartly said it was somewhat expensive, he apologized again and dressed in layers. He did not ask a second time.

    At the risk of spoiling him, a few weeks later we decided to surprise him by purchasing an identical jacket on sale.

    Upon seeing the jacket, our son beamed: “You found it!”

    I smiled. “No, son, we bought you another one.”

    Our son looked absolutely crushed. His face brightened only a little when I told him the replacement jacket was discounted. I had to coax him to try it on.

    Until that moment, I had assumed that our son just did not care about his Christmas gift. Why? Because he’s a kid, and kids are supposedly worse than adults.

    And yet, he does not lose many possessions.

    When I lose something, I am highly upset with myself, and I ask myself if I can acquire an identical item. Perhaps our son lost the jacket through carelessness, but he reacted much as an adult might.

    It takes no thought at all for me to “improve” our son by pointing out his wrongs, for that is how I was trained. I have had to teach myself to look carefully at his face when he is sharing a concern or reacting to a situation. His eyes, his cheeks, his lips, the tilt of his head tell so much. Sometimes, yes, he needs clear and immediate consequences.

    As he matures, though, mercy and forgiveness work better as disciplinary tools. This is because he has an active conscience. Unknown to me, he had been beating himself up inside about losing that jacket. He needed warmth from me, not from winter clothing.

  • Friend

    I’m thankful to know of another mother on this wavelength. Your son sounds like a sweet, considerate guy.

  • Silver

    Just remember, the only people you should treat like children in CP are adult men.

  • Nightshade

    And they’re supposed to be the bosses of everyone else. Mind-boggling when we step back and look at it (more or less) objectively.

  • knownever

    Salvation Army does in fact deny lgbt couples places in their shelters and programs, but I’m thankful for whatever moderating influence federal money has.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I Googled, and found one incident of an LGBT couple being denied aid unless they renounced their relationship from decades ago– I think in the 80’s– but nothing this century.

    Do you have any URLs showing that this is still going on in the SA? Because if so, they should lose their federal funding.