Quoting Quiverfull: No Spanking Leads to General Degeneration of Society?

Quoting Quiverfull: No Spanking Leads to General Degeneration of Society? April 10, 2015

quotingquiverfullby Michael Pearl of No Greater Joy in part eight of his new foreword for his book “To Train Up A Child” – Attack on Traditional Child Training

Editor’s note: He’s claiming that the anti spanking movement cannot prove their claims even as there are many more legitimate scientific studies showing that harming a child to make them behave is bad in the long run. Mr. Pearl ignores facts or blurts out lies about anything that runs counter to his belief.  This seems to be a typical thing to do in the world of Quiverfull and Evangelical Christianity, come up against a study or a fact that doesn’t fit with your ‘Biblical World View’, just call it a lie without legitimately refuting it.

If you draw a line through history at the point where spanking was abandoned, you will find that it coincides with significant increases in juvenile misbehavior, suicides, low self-esteem, self-loathing, and a general degeneration of society. You will also discover that where parents give up corporal chastisement, they resort to emotionally ab,usive methods such as screaming, insulting, and humiliating in order to control aberrant behavior.

However, we are not suggesting that the cessation of spanking is responsible for the increase in juvenile misbehavior and crime. There are many factors, and this is not the place to discuss them. But just as we cannot say that lack of spanking causes delinquency, the progressive cannot say, based on the statistics, that spanking causes delinquency. There are a number of factors contributing to the decline in civilization and to juvenile rebellion and indifference. However, in answer to the progressive claim that spanking is responsible for youth misbehavior, if the statics do speak in regard to delinquency, they would say that the cessation of spanking has increased misbehavior in youth, not diminished it as they suggested would occur with its elimination.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6

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Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement by Kathryn Joyce

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  • Anonyme

    I think Mr. Pearl gets a “high” off of beating and abusing children–they’re smaller. defenseless and easy to brainwash into thinking that everything they do is a sin so they’d better comply with Daddy’s beatings or they’ll go to Hell. It makes him feel like a real tough guy because he has control over someone so innocent and helpless. It makes me sick.

  • Edie Moore McGee

    Tell a lie long enough and loud enough …. That’s how Mikey rolls.

  • ShaLaLa

    My parents didn’t hit. They also didn’t yell or insult or humiliate. They parented. They talked to us and helped us gain important tools. They offered guidance without being controlling. They were our friends (yeah, to everyone who says you can’t be a friend to your children without failing at the parenting part, I call bullshit. I’m honestly not even sure how one would go about parenting well WITHOUT fostering a friendship with your kids), our guides, and our soft place to land.

    Also, I would like a citation for his claims about the world going to hell since spanking started to fall out of vogue. Seems to me the world is a much better place now than even when I was born. But then, Pearl and I have VERY different ideas about morality.

  • Nea

    This! Notice that Mr Commandan is the ultimate uber-authoritarian — but he chose a field where you can just declare an expert. He mentions police and the military with appreciation because they are also authorities… but he’d never think of joining be used you have to *earn* a rank there.

    Also, soldiers are likely to shoot the sort of leader he claims to be in the back. No one *wants* to follow someone who has no empathy for them.

  • Mel

    Anyone else notice how fragile civilization is to the CP/QF types?
    Apparently, societies will collapse if:
    -Homosexuals marry
    -Women have rights
    -Parents don’t spank
    -Anyone questions their interpretation of the Bible

  • Jenny Islander

    “Civilization” apparently means “a culture that permits me to just tick off the ticky boxes without stopping to wonder whether the person who set up the checklist actually has a direct line to God and perfect knowledge of right and wrong.”

  • Jenny Islander

    I used to read a lot of true crime books. This type of man–almost always a man–cropped up everywhere. It’s almost diagnostic: if you have three suspects for a case involving violence or murder, look at the police/military/etc. washout first.

  • Anonyme

    Sort of off-topic but not, check this out:

    And the Pearls and all their colleagues are saying that the LGTB movement will destroy “traditional marriage”.

  • KarenOfRocks

    I was never spanked, but only because I was such a “good child”. I was actually a very sensitive and depressed child, and my mother’s guilting games when I didn’t behave exactly as expected were extremely painful to endure. It was far less painful to just do whatever she wanted than to listen for days on end about what a lazy/ungrateful person I was. (My mother was terribly proud of being such a wonderful parent that she produced a perfect kid.) My father was equally difficult to disobey, but for the best of reasons: he explained why something needed doing (or not doing) in a way that made my rational self want to comply. He never seemed proud of his parenting, though he was proud of my real accomplishments.

    The only people I know who were never spanked are my Norwegian cousins. The adults are kind, generous, honest, responsible people. The teens show a remarkable lack of angst, and are quite well-behaved. Spanking is actually prohibited in Norway now, I believe, but I can’t even imagine my adult cousins yelling at their children. You just don’t treat other people that way. It isn’t respectful, and it’s important to model respect for your children.

  • Baby_Raptor

    You know, this country has been predominantly inhabited by people of the Christian persuasion since it’s inception. If Christianity really was the only course of morality and the one thing stopping The End of The World, would we be having this conversation?

  • Plain English

    Christianity is not the cause of abuse in families but it often enough enables abusers. And is used as a denial tool for hitters. People who are able to harm children, to swat and spank and physically disrespect youngsters, are able to perform these acts because they learned the disrespect in their past. We do not invent harm for others but we are taught it. Christian correction when it involves emotional shaming and/or physical hitting, is simply, plainly abuse in all cases. No reasonable and emotionally healthy parent would ever routinely hurt their child without a built-in trigger that sets them off. They can speak of God’s will and correcting without anger but it is all abuse, all of it. Norm Lee speaks very lucidly about all this at parenting without punishing…. dot net I think it is…. First do no harm, then let the children lead.

  • Plain English

    Well said… Pearl is a sick fuck.

  • Baby_Raptor

    I get that you want to defend your beliefs but let’s not descend into lying and white knighting.

    People do things because Christianity told them to. They think that god commands it. This doesn’t automatically require a predisposition towards doing whatever it is they think they should do. Denying this is ignoring thousands of years of Christian history.

  • Plain English

    I don’t see the lie. I believe it is dishonest to blame the captain when you have committed to obeying the captain without recourse. Unless that is, you quit the army. And then it is fine to disobey ‘God’. I am an atheist son of a Baptist preacher. People do not do things merely because Christianity told them to do it. They are able to harm because Christianity uses that predisposition in them. It affirms their own harm and frees them to use that harm sometimes by calling it love. Therefore, love your neighbor can be construed as bomb that whole village (old testament style) to save FREEDOM. I say this because I respect history. If you want to be a Christian and then used the Bible to justify hitting your children, I put it on you, not some fantasy gawd or army. That asshole shit Pearl would beat his kids for the anybody! He could be a Devil worshipper or AnyFuckingThing believer and he would beat the shit out of his kids because HE likes doing that….
    And as for your silly white-knight comment, you sound rather shallow and lacking…

  • Baby_Raptor

    So you think it’s dishonest to blame Christianity for telling people to hit kids because they committed to follow Christianity? Do you also think “I was ordered to” covers violations of the law or are we just protecting religion?

    It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people will turn to condescension when you criticize religion. Oh, no. I said something that didn’t kiss Christianity’s ass! must pile on the insults! Nevermind that you know absolutely nothing about me, I said something you don’t like so I MUST be childish and shallow.

    I don’t believe this bullshit because I’m living proof that it’s not true. The people who raised me spent years treating me like shit because I’m female-bodied. They ultimately disowned me for being Bisexual. Neither of those would have happened were it not for the people doing it believing the bible told them to. You can pretend otherwise all you want but religion has a history of being the source of a lot of nasty and immoral things. Pretending something else is to blame just makes you an accomplice.

  • Plain English

    Did I say that it was dishonest? My intention was merely to point out personal responsibility. God is not real and is used to harm others in the sense we are both reflecting, I think. Christianity is to blame, okay? But we have the personal challenge, each of us, to take our own responsibility finally in how we allow THINGS like Christianity to become an excuse for our personal issues. When you say that people would not stoop to things such as disowning you unless the Bible gave them permission, I don’t want to disagree with you. But of course others are disowned because they commit crimes such as having a relationship outside their ‘class’ or group etc. The Bible is not cited here but the disowning is very real. I am sorry to hear that you were disowned for being bisexual but not all Christians do that, you see? Your hateful family disowned you because they are fucking rigid twits. If you want to believe that some God or some religion MADE them like this, that is up to you. I support you. I happen to be both atheist and bisexual and a rather stupid male person who is too rude quite often. But those fuckers who judge us for being who we are will not hide behind a black book and get away with it. Those pricks who judge and shame and show us the door can fucking take responsibility themselves! Christianity allows and encourages this bullshit, so I regret somehow suggesting to you that it is getting off free of charge. I charge it alright but then finally I turn to the human being, real like you and me, and say, What the fuck???
    Those who join the mighty prayer mob and allow Christianity to carry-on this kind of hatred are individually responsible. Forgive me, Raptor, for being provocative, perhaps and name-calling. I believe the world would be better served without religion, certainly without the extremes of religion at least. Remember the scene in Oh Brother Where art Thou? where the two mouthier characters get into an argument about what to do in a tight spot? They vote against one another and then turn to the third for the deciding vote, and he says,
    I’m wit chew fellers! Well, in essence, I’m wit you too so if you want me to bash the fuck out of religion, toot a trumpet and I’ll be there! But I might say you don’t go far enough…
    And your comment about me being an accomplice is baiting me. I’m wit chew so get over your love of all-powerful religion.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Okay, change your story and pretend I’m the bad guy. Whatever works for you. Do yourself a favour and try to learn that people can make comments without attacking you personally. Saying that you enable the bullshit religion causes isn’t “baiting” you. It’s stating a fact. If I wanted to get a rise out of you I’d just insult you like you’ve done repeatedly to me.

  • Plain English

    So you or I have to be bad, huh? If I say something like your comment sounds shallow and lacking, you see that as an insult? Yet In your very first sentence to me, you said I was lying and white-knighting. Both of these statements are quite personal, Raptor. I have not lied to you and I have no idea what you mean by white-knighting… I just don’t get the reference…I understand that we can be guilty of something even if we cannot comprehend a charge but well, maybe you could assist me in getting a clue about what this particular white-knighting was?