Quoting Quiverfull: Part 1 – Christian Economic Abuse Is A-Okay With Jesus?

Quoting Quiverfull: Part 1 – Christian Economic Abuse Is A-Okay With Jesus? June 16, 2015

quotingquiverfullby Biblical Gender Roles from his blog Biblical Gender Roles – Can a Christian husband deny his wife equal access to his income?

Editor’s note: Not if he wants to have consensual sex with her ever again.

This guy seems to be hell bound and determined to do all the things that would clearly lead his wife to not be in the mood for sexy fun times. This is what Economic Abuse can look like, no matter what your views on equality in marriage are. I’m guessing he thinks that the husband automatically gets access to the woman’s wages even as he’s controlling access to finances for the wife.

This is also why so many Christian women struggle when their husbands die with the issue of making financial decisions or even simply paying bills and or figuring out a budget, because any genuine role in the family finances has been removed from them by guys like this because “Some men might do this in order to shield their wife from some of the financial stresses the family may face.” Cruel to keep someone clueless about the family financial situation and without any real input into it.

So no, Biblically speaking both spouses do NOT have an equal right to what the other makes. The husband is the authority of all income that comes into the home, whether through his wife or himself.

A husband can deny access to his income as long as he is providing the necessities of food, clothing and shelter to his wife. He may do this because his wife spends too much money, or he may use it as a form of discipline for other sinful behavior.

But there may not be any negative reason why he chooses not to give complete and equal access to the family finances.  Some men might do this in order to shield their wife from some of the financial stresses the family may face. Whatever the reason, the truth is from a Biblical perspective a husband does not have to open the family finances to his wife.

However, this truth does not mean he is released from talking with his wife and knowing from her perspective what she thinks are the financial needs of herself, their children and their home.  Out of respect for his wife’s position as the manager of his home and children, and also because a husband ought to know his wife’s opinions, he should regularly inquire of his wife what she thinks the home needs are.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • katiehippie

    The whole subtext is that women aren’t smart enough to handle finances.

  • The Proverbs 31 woman had control over her own income. Just sayin’.

  • purpleprose78

    Men die. I’m not wishing it on these people or anything, but it happens. Sometimes, they die suddenly. Both of my grandmothers were widowed young (35 and 42 respectively.) They were left with young children to raise. If they hadn’t been prepared to work and pay the bills, things could have gotten very bad for their families. And it was pretty darn hard for them even though they were both smart and capable women. I am really worried about the young daughters raised in this movement who were told “Don’t worry your pretty little heads about it.” My parents having grown up in those situations were determined to make sure both my brother and I could support ourselves. These people shackling their women to control them. It is not a good situation.

  • Nea

    Plus owned property in her own right and made business deals.

  • Aimee Shulman

    No, actually the truth is that from a Biblical perspective THERE IS LITERALLY NO BASIS WHATSOEVER TO ASSUME THAT THE WIFE SHOULD NOT GET A SAY IN THE FAMILY FINANCES. Nor is there any basis to assume that the husband has the right to consider himself “the authority of all income that comes into the home.” There IS, however, a long passage that details all the ways in which a wife has control over her own finances and how she runs the home and her own businesses with them and her husband says NOTHING to her about it except “go you.” The only perspective this creepshow is coming from is the perspective of a bloated ago and a sadistic delight in controlling others and making them crawl.

  • pinkie

    Shh…can’t let the “girls” know what’s really in the Bible or they might try being self-sufficient. /sarcasm/

  • Nea

    and also because a husband ought to know his wife’s opinions

    Don’t you just adore how that was an AFTER THOUGHT?

    Men who “shelter” women from knowing what is going on financially are setting them up to be victimized by either the man or by predators after he dies. Men who take control of their wives’ income and dole a portion back to them are flat-out thieves.

    Proverbs 31 is in the Bible, and it sure as hell doesn’t say “don’t let her bother her pretty little head about the money.”

  • Wives do not need to be disciplined! WTF teaching is this?
    “Oh, honey, you did something I didn’t like. Let me teach you a lesson.”
    Oooooohhhh, I’m so angry.

  • Jennifer L.

    Having visited this man’s blog and read his “about me” statement, I would say he is trying really hard, in all the wrong ways, to mitigate some pain from his past marriage. What he doesn’t seem to realize or understand is that his methods and ideologies will only serve to alienate himself from his wife.

  • Thinking you need to discipline your wife only works if you don’t consider her an adult human who is responsible for herself.

  • Allison the Great

    I’ve met my fair share of girls who married young, didn’t go to college or receive any kind of vocational training, they didn’t ever learn how to manage money or really take care of themselves. They went from being high school kids to wives in less than a year, and they never mentally grew up. Their marriages fell apart, and now, they’re wishing that they learned some skills or that their parents had taught them something about life before they made the mistake of marrying so young.

    I do agree that it is cruel to not let the wife handle money. I think he does that on purpose though. You don’t want them wimmin folks knowin’ too much about money! They’ll leave you and become witches! This sick prick is doing that to keep his bride dependent on him. It’s easier to keep her around and keep sexually abusing her the way he implies he does if she doesn’t think that she has a way out of the relationship.

    I was reading an article on Valerie Terico’s blog and she brought up a good point. Guys like this douche are bible literalist, and the reason he doesn’t think anything of not having his wife’s consent for sex is because the concept of consent is nowhere in the bible. As we all know, to those brutal and psychotic motherfuckers in the Iron Age, women were on the same level as livestock, they even had a property value if they got raped. The guy who writes this back asswards gender roles blog feels the same way. He doesn’t need permission to do what he wants to do with his property .

  • Allison the Great

    A Thousand Ways to Make a 21st Century Woman Want to Kill You Or At the Very Least, Blind You With Pepper Spray

  • She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard. . .

    24 She makes linen garments and sells them;
    she supplies the merchant with sashes. . .

    Give her a share in the fruit of her hands,
    and let her works praise her in the city gates.

    When did that stop being part of the Bible?

    And I asked a rabbi at chabad.org, who confirmed that that Proverbs 31 shows that women had control over the money they earned back in Old Testament days and that they did so traditionally in Judaism during the times when their Christian sisters did not.

  • Rachel

    This guy is talking out of both sides of his mouth. One second it’s “Don’t you worry you’re pretty little head about finances,” then the next it’s “My wife spends too much money!” Of course she spends too much money! How can you expect someone to be financially responsible if she has no concept of finances?

  • Antoinette Herrera

    Once again, the repugnant rape apologist known as Biblical Gender Roles has seen fit to weigh in on how to best manipulate and degrade one’s wife. When he’s not attempting to rationalize using finances as a means of coercion, he’s talking about why the wife shouldn’t worry her pretty little head about where the money goes. The bit about asking her opinion is a fig leaf. And insulting to boot.

  • Poster Girl

    Just to be clear…..this is the same guy who says it’s a sin for the wife to not want to have sex? No idea how his first wife could have dumped such a gem!

  • FrequentFlyer

    Yeah. He says the wife is the manager of the home at the same time he’s saying she doesn’t need to know about the finances. What manager doesn’t know how much money is coming in and going out? It’s impossible to be a manager without that information.

  • I notice none of your descriptive words were “Christian”. You should probably add “Feminist” in there somewhat as a warning to all the good Biblical men out there that the practices within are Bible-based.
    I mean, what other reason would radical feminists hate them?

  • Nightshade

    My first thought? Great argument for a woman having her own money, until I read further…

    In Mr. BGR’s answer to a question on the same page he says ‘I do not believe a husband ought to allow his wife to have a separate account, unless he has direct access to it and can withdraw funds.’ So that kills the personal finance option, which brings me to great argument against marriage, except…

    On his ‘Why did God make Woman?’ page he says ‘God beautifully designed woman to be man’s help meet.’ So according to him the only reason for women to exist is for men. So finally I come to the conclusion…

    Rejecting (this man’s) version of gender roles is the only sensible option. Yep, way to go, buddy.

  • Or that he never stops to consider why she is spending a lot of money. I’m bipolar, and for me, overspending is a sign that I’ve flipped to mania. But it could be a lack of coping skills, a way to alleviate boredom or loneliness. Hell, she might just want pretty things.
    But instead of, I don’t know, talking to her and saying something like “I’ve noticed you’re putting a lot more on the credit card then you normally do. What’s going on?”, he’s just like “Bad girl. Grounded.”

  • Isilwath Theresa Imparato

    I was wondering if this would be discussed here. I particularly “liked” his response to the working wife where he told her that her husband had final say on if she worked, when she worked, WHERE she worked and for how long, oh and she had to hand over her paycheck. There’s a term for someone who works under someone else’s complete authority and is not allowed to keep anything that they earn: slave. :/

  • FrequentFlyer

    Yes, men die. My mom was 40 and my dad was 42 when he died. If my mom had no job and no experience handling money she, my little sister, and I would
    have been in trouble. She probably handled most of the finances when he was alive anyway since she had always been in bookkeeping and office management. I don’t sit around all the time worrying that my husband FireCapt won’t come home, but I am not delusional enough to think that it could never happen. He and I both know that I can take care of myself and our children if the worst ever happens. Do men like this think they will always be there for their wives and families, or are they so self absorbed that they don’t care what happens when they are gone?

  • Rachel

    Great point! People tend to assume that women who spend a lot of money are just selfish but consistently shopping too much usually indicates that something deeper going on.

  • SAO

    I must say, the guy has got to be a significant contributor to the rise in atheism. If that’s Christian, I’d rather be a heathen.

  • I knew a family who subscribed to this type of thinking. He worked with my husband. My husband was pushing for the family-owned company to get insurance, at least life insurance. The friend’s response? “I don’t need life insurance. I have God and he will provide.”
    My husband’s response? “What about if your wife dies?”
    “Oh…I guess I will need someone to watch the kids until I can get remarried.”

    Doesn’t everyone want a champ like this?

  • Nah. He’s doing ol’ Jesus a favour and weeding out the weak ones afore the Rapture comes.

  • Sari

    I don’t even have a job, and there are 3 life insurance policies on me. My husband said it would take THAT MUCH to replace me (and he wouldn’t remarry).

  • Saraquill

    Setting one’s wife up to potentially starve sounds like a way to piss off the Middle Eastern hippy.

  • Nightshade

    Yep, and he recommends cutting off her funding to make her have sex with him. Yeah, a real peach, isn’t he?

  • Astrin Ymris

    I think the CPM is vaguely aware of this. That’s why Michael Pearl and some others have been trying to obscure the oppression by dropping meaningless platitudes like “But do be nice to your wife and let her talk.” Or “Women are just great when they’re complete doormats.”

    It’s not like such “advice” actually obligates the husbands involved in any concrete fashion. After all, he’s the final judge of whether he’s being “nice” enough or not.

  • gimpi1

    OK, here’s the deal; I’ve been the principle breadwinner and I’ve brought in the secondary income. I’ve never not brought in money, but that may happen someday. When I was the principle breadwinner, I never made financial decisions without consulting my husband (or live-in before we married). My husband has never made financial decisions without consulting me. My right to equal input over financial decisions is not based on my contribution, it’s based on my competence.

    On our finances: Our household account is joint, and we both make monthly deposits into it, and pay bills out of it. We also have a joint savings account for major household purchases. We each keep a small, separate “mad-money” account that we can use to save up for individual stuff or just for fun. We each have retirement accounts, with rights of survivorship. (I actually helped him set his up, I’m generally better at investing than he is.) Our house is my prior property – he moved in with me. When we married, we put his name on the title, so we own it jointly. We live in a community-property state.

    We would be much worse off if we followed this fellow’s advice. In fact, we wouldn’t be a couple at all. I would have shown any man who tried to take control of me, and my husband would leave any woman who wanted an owner rather than a partner.

    If all this “complimentarian” stuff is so natural, why do they need so many rules and threats to make it work? Why did things change in the first place?

  • gimpi1

    Men (and women) die, men (and women) get sick or become disabled and men (and women) leave. That’s reality. Every adult should be able to earn a living, write a budget, cook a meal, care for their clothing and home, manage transportation and basic repairs. Living any other way is just begging for disaster.

    Don’t many of these same people object to governmental programs that help widows or mothers with young children whose husbands are disabled or not there? Don’t plan on being able to support yourself, but don’t expect any help if you need to? Yeah, that’s going to work out well…

  • gimpi1

    I admit, my uncharitable response was, “Wow, I’m amazed his first marriage lasted more than 15 minutes, and I’m even more stunned that he found someone else to put up with him.”

    It takes all kinds to make up a universe. Apparently, some people are OK with being controlled and treated like infants. Sooo not my cup of tea…

  • gimpi1

    “A thousand reasons for her to leave you.”

    “How to give her divorce attorney a thousand winning points.”

    “A thousand ways to be sure no woman with more than an ounce of self-respect will give you the time of day.”

    “A thousand ways to wind up divorced, broke and bitter.”

    There are no end of possible blog-titles here.

  • gimpi1

    It also could be that he hasn’t set foot in a grocery store in five years and has no idea of what things cost.

  • gimpi1

    My mother-in-law came to my husband and I years ago, having (briefly) left his step-father. The step-father had gone on a rampage about how she, “Owned Nothing! It’s all mine! The house, the cars, mine! You have nothing but what I decide to give you!” In talking to her, I suggested she print out a copy of Washington state’s community-property laws and staple it to his forehead…

    (They reconciled. Sadly, it turned out that this rant and some other behaviors he had been exhibiting that she hadn’t mentioned were a form of dementia. He started drinking heavily, perhaps out of fear of what was happening to him. He passed away a couple of years later, after a fall that happened in part because he was drinking. I’ve always regarded his actions as a form of suicide. This may show that some people fall into this complimentarian nonsense because they aren’t really rational anymore. Food for thought…)

  • gimpi1

    Well-spotted.

  • BlueVibe

    Note to CP types: You cannot claim that you want a wife to be a “helpmeet” if you then deny her the information she needs to carry this out. You’re not “shielding her”, so stop lying to yourself and everyone else–this is a straight-up power play. You cannot claim you’re “protecting” her when you’re setting her up for disaster if you die unexpectedly and leave her without the means (financial and informational) to keep the family afloat. This is about you getting all the control and her getting all the responsibility (and blame).

  • Well, maybe they conflate that treatment with “he puts me on a pedestal. He takes care of me.”
    I know that line was sold in the Mormon church. “We’re not sexist! We love, revere, and honor/protect women, who were blessed with being natural nurturers and keepers of the home.”

  • Maria

    That rant sounds exactly like the attitude my father had to the household. My mother’s contribution by raising the kids for 40 years apparently meant nothing. Nastiest piece of work he ever pulled off was forcing my mother to join him in Saudi Arabia during a work contract, against her will, by telling her that either she came or he’d cut off her income. She didn’t want to go because she didn’t feel that five-year old me would be safe. She was right. It made no difference.
    He, however, was raised Catholic but completely atheist. Seems bullshit gender attitudes get everywhere.
    Oddly, he had a form of dementia too when he died, and he drank heavily as well.

  • gimpi1

    And that’s fine… until it isn’t. Until he leaves. Until he dies. Until he gets sick and can’t work. Until his elderly dad moves in. Until there isn’t enough money to take care of everyone.

    I know the Mormons and some Evangelicals sell this strongly. If someone enjoys the “pedestal” well, it takes all kinds. I strongly suggest that they understand the way off it, and the potential cost for being up there.

  • gimpi1

    I wonder if some dementia sometimes figures into this. I’ve dealt with my father, who suffered traumatic brain-injury, my uncle who had dementia caused by untreated diabetes, my husband’s step-father who was never diagnosed, but seemed to present with classic Alzheimer’s, and his uncle, who developed a form of non-Alzheimer’s dementia.

    One thing I’ve noticed is there’s a trend for polar, simplistic thinking. There’s also a tendency for empathy to weaken. People dealing with dementia often don’t seem to relate to other people as people. Perhaps understanding nuance and relating to others with empathy requires higher brain-centers that aren’t hitting on all 8 cylinders… Makes me wonder, anyway.

  • BlueVibe

    With me, it’s depression. At least I’m aware that I do this, but it’s basically trying to create a different life through crafts, etc. (That is, it’s not about the high of shopping per se, but acquiring raw materials that I try to use to create a different reality. No, it doesn’t work.)