Quoting Quiverfull: So God Invented Clothing?

Quoting Quiverfull: So God Invented Clothing? September 24, 2015

quotingquiverfullby Kristen Clark from Girl Defined – The Bikini is Destroying the Christian Girl’s View of Modesty

Editor’s note: First, it’s been considered ‘normal’ to swim nude by most Europeans for a lot longer than the advent of the bikini. Europeans are much less sexualized or hung up on the idea of unclothed body parts. Also, correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t Adam and Eve nude in the Garden of Eden until they ate from the tree of knowledge, which made them feel shame over their nakedness, leading to them donning leaves? God seemed totally cool with the two of them hanging out in their birthday suits in the garden. Their own shame led to the clothing, not God suddenly opening up a ancient Brooks Brothers branch or handing them Flintstones type clothing.

It’s now considered totally normal for women (and men) to swim nude in Europe.

Why? Because that’s exactly where a worldview apart from God’s Word takes you.

When the idea of “modesty” becomes extinct from a nation’s vocabulary, there are no limits. No outfit choice can be considered “immodest” anymore because modesty itself doesn’t exist.

The only reason we, as Americans, still cover our intimate parts is because our country was founded on Biblical principles. Clothes were God’s idea. Modesty comes from God. Clothing was God’s specific design to cover the shame that resulted from sin.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Saraquill

    It’s sad when a heathen like me is more familiar with Genesis than a person who considers themself Christian.

  • Allison the Great

    No, this country was NOT founded on biblical principles. How do I know? BECAUSE THE FOUNDING FATHERS FUCKING SAID SO! MANY, MANY FUCKING TIMES, THEY FUCKING SAID SO! It’s in writing. The framers of the Constitution and some of the earliest Presidents have said that this is not a Christian nation so many times, in those exact words, no less. Sorry about the yelling, but shit, I’m tired of this. Willful ignorance is a huge pet peeve of mine. Instead of reading facts, they’re reading David Barton’s fan fiction.

    After that, I’ve got nothing. It’s not because I agree with her, it’ just that if it’s early and I have to go to work.

  • Deyndra

    If they repeat it enough, that they believe we’re a Christian nation, and lie enough, about what the Founding Fathers meant when they separated Church and State in the Constitution, then eventually they will change history. That’s the part that gets me. They know better, but they want to change the facts to suit them.

  • MomofTwins

    We cover our parts for the same reason North American Indians and other non Christian cultures have since time immemorial, including pre Christian Europeans – It’s fucking uncomfortable not to. This isn’t Tahiti. It’s too cold to walk around naked most of the year.

    And not for nothing, but swimming or bathing communal in the nude in sex segregated environments has been a widespread practice in Europe and the Middle East for millenia. My dad learned to swim naked at the locak Y in the 50s. Both sexes bathing or swimming nude together is unusual, although nude beaches have been around for a while and are more common in Europe than the US.

  • Poster Girl

    That is some serious stupid right there. Women in Saudi Arabia swim in abayas and veils (which sounds like so much fun!); women in Europe, as you pointed out in your intro, have been swimming nude for CENTURIES, well before there was even a United States.

  • RetroPam

    God created Adam and Eve nude, and called the situation “very good.” In Genesis 3:11, God asked, in effect, “who told you that it wasn’t?”

    And “dressing modestly” referred to dressing humbly, rather than being garish or flaunting wealth. God wouldn’t create two people in a state of “immodesty” and go on to describe it as “very good.”

    Moreover, there was plenty of open breast-feeding in both the Old and New Testaments. Not a word of condemnation.

    Why are these people OK with men’s and women’s locker rooms? If the Bible says that nudity is wrong (it doesn’t), where is the exception for gender-segregated situations? Wouldn’t the Law have seen fit to cover a detail like that?

    Like most “Bible teachings” that aren’t there, they fall apart as soon as you subject them to closer scrutiny.

  • Karen the rock whisperer

    “Clothes were God’s idea. Modesty comes from God. Clothing was God’s specific design to cover the shame that resulted from sin.” It’s been awhile since I read my bible, but I seem to have missed that part. I also don’t understand the whole concept of being ashamed of your body because you have sinned. Shouldn’t you feel bad about the sin, and confess it, and try to make amends if others are involved? What does body shame have to do with that? Maybe someone who is Christian can explain that to me (and no, I’m not being snarky here; this has always puzzled me; but I sensed that it was not a good question for the nuns of my youth).

    As someone who got fat before her first baby pictures, and has never not been overweight (and mostly obese), I have intense shame issues with my body. I’ve tried to deal with them, but it is very hard. And of course, I was raised to be “modest” as only a Good Catholic Girl can be; my prom dress looked as though a grandmother might wear it to her granddaughter’s wedding. So between the sins of being fat and being female, body issues are tough. I just don’t understand intentionally propagating this kind of pain, under the guise that somehow the God who made people naked demands covering up and thorough body policing.

  • Antoinette Herrera

    Ms Clark may want to steer clear of the beaches in South Florida. Nude sunbathing is not legal, but there are beach areas that are clothing-optional, and the authorities tend to not interfere. Parts of Haulover Beach and Virginia Key are good for sunning in the altogether, and I think there are lockers on Haulover for those who want to swim without worry.

    Now if Ms Clark wants to martyrbate, she’s more than welcome to moan about the hedonistic mindset of people living in Miami.

  • Edie Moore McGee

    I just read the blog post about wedding dresses. I have no idea why it was so exhausting and difficult for her to find a wedding dress that wasn’t strapless. Why she was exasperated and in tears, I tell you, tears, over the process. There are all kinds of modest wedding dresses out there. Trust me, I’ve been in a bridal shop in the last year (ordering a bridesmaid dress for my daughter). You can find whatever you want. Geez. Humblebrag again.

  • Mel

    Actually, God did make them some kind of clothing made of skin after the Fall.

    Why do I know this? YEC puts a HUGE emphasis on that as a sign that all animals were vegetarians before the Fall…..

    Which makes no sense at all, but I’ve not had time to write that blog post yet.

  • Julia Childress

    Because of the war on Christianity, the wedding dress designers are conspiring to make only immodest wedding gowns.

  • Allison the Great

    They can say it as many times as they like. The evidence will never fit their narrative. We need to call them out over it every single time they try to claim this. It needs to be refuted at every turn. This country is not theirs and it never was.

  • Allison the Great

    I read that blog post too, and I call bullshit on there not being any modest wedding dresses anywhere. The long sleeve look is in style now. A lot of designers are making beautiful dresses that have the long sleeves. And if they find a dress that they love but it’s not modest enough, they can have it altered.

  • persephone

    Once again, the modesty in that oft quoted verse was not part of some purity pledge. It specifically referenced excessive jewelry and flashy clothing, i.e. flaunting your wealth.

  • persephone

    Most heathens started out Christians, read the Bible and actually examined what they were reading, went with some version of WTF?! and got out.

  • persephone

    Sure, strapless was in for a while (they’re also easier and cheaper to make), but there have always been dresses with straps or sleeves or bolero cover ups or whatever. And if you find a strapless dress you love, seamstresses are happy to add straps or sleeves.

  • Anonyme

    I won’t believe God invented clothing until He comes up with a fabric that repels all cat hair.

  • Nea

    No such thing as a strapless wedding dress? All you need to do is walk into any bridal store and say “I want something like Kate Middleton had.” Even in America.

  • Mermaid Warrior

    I’ve heard that most nudity colonies have pretty strict rules about conduct. I guess they figure a lot of non-nudists will go in thinking it’s an “anything goes” type of place so they have to make sure that shit won’t happen.

  • Mermaid Warrior

    A lot of these people don’t realize how subjective modesty is. Growing up in south Texas, I always found it incredibly bizarre to watch TV shows where the parents would complain that the teenage daughter was going out in tank tops and low-rise jeans. Where I’ve always lived, it’s common for girls and young women to go out in spaghetti strap tops and short shorts because it’s so hot. And it’s not a big deal, even conservative parents don’t give a shit about girls dressing like that. Guys don’t stare any more than they normally would.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    I think that Clarke is missing a few things in the process that brought the first bikini that only a nude 18y/o dancer was willing to don in public to the bathing suit version common today. The main one being that the early movie stars wore versions that did not reveal their navels. At that time in history, bellybuttons were not to be shown on the small or big screen! Their bikinis more resembled the tankini of today with a slightly shorter top that revealed a couple inch wide section of skin.

  • BridgetD

    This…it hurts my head how much these fundamentalists distort reality.

    Our culture is a paradox. On the one hand, pop culture focuses intently on sexuality. On the other, we’re prudish to the point of ridiculousness. In most of the world, it’s not that big a deal. In fact, many of these countries also have a higher percentage of practicing Christians that our own United States. Although I honestly do get embarrassed by nakedness (product of my culture really), I know that nakedness is not inherently sexual or immoral. If people didn’t obsess about it, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    Also, sorry guys, we’re not a Christian nation founded on biblical principles. I know that people like to claim that, and then point to our money and pledge (which didn’t mention God until the last 50 or so years). The religious affiliations of our founding fathers (who were enlightenment age humanist thinkers) were relatively varied; we had several Diests and some anti-clerical Christians in there along with some die-hard protestants and one or two Roman Catholics.

  • BridgetD

    I have had people point out to me A LOT that the Constitution does not have the exact words “Separation of Church and State,” written down (implying that our founding fathers did not intend for our government system to be secular), even though it was heavily implied (establishment clause anyone?) and in letters by Thomas Jefferson. They’re literalists. They need everything spelled out for them, and unfortunately our Constitution does not do that.

  • BridgetD

    Makes sense.

  • BridgetD

    She’s either making it all up, she’s been to a single store (not even a bridal store, more like a thrift store that happened to have a few dresses), or she’s walking into each one blindfolded, because there is no way that she can honestly not find any modest wedding dresses. There are several eyebrow raising dresses, but finding a dress with sleeves should not be difficult. Even if you got a dress with straps, you can easily find a bolero to put over it.

  • BridgetD

    Add to that short sticky Dalmatian hair, and you’ve got me sold!

  • BridgetD

    They take one definition of the word and run with it.

  • BridgetD

    …That really does not make sense. If they don’t believe in evolution, where do they think that predator features (forward facing eyes, shorter guts, meat-shearing teeth, venomous bite, etc) came from? Did these animals have these features before the Fall, even though they were totally unnecessary, and even detrimental? How did obligate predators, such as cats or snakes, survive in the Garden of Eden when they cannot efficiently digest plant matter?

  • Deyndra

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

    What the founding fathers did or did not intend is now a moot point. They are dead and don’t have to live with the consequences. What matters is that the Constitution had provisions for change as society evolved and needed our government and laws to evolve with us. The Amendments clearly define the separation of Church and State, and have been interpreted that way by the Supreme Court in many decisions. The literalists don’t know what the founding fathers intended, but want to throw shade on the current form of the Constitution because it doesn’t support what they want.

  • BridgetD

    You’re certainly correct there.

    Honestly, people will argue for what they want, whether they feel that they can support it or not. It still blows my mind, however, how many people will still argue that we are a Christian nation, the founding fathers were all devout Christians, and separation of church and state is the root of all evil in America, all despite glaring evidence to the contrary. Even if they choose to ignore the court cases (where the actual definitions of our civil rights originate), how they can blatantly ignore the clear-as-day first amendment hits home how much people will distort reality to meet their beliefs.

  • Mel

    Oh, it’s a long, boring story that no one really elaborates clearly so far….

  • Tyrone Jones

    You’re right. They weren’t Christian -they were European or Scottish Freemasons 33rd level & above. The “god” mentioned on the dollar bills, etc., and in the constitution is NOT the Judeo-Christian God. Nope, many of them were not Christians at all.

  • Tyrone Jones

    Don’t think they know better. They being the general public.

  • Tyrone Jones

    NOT Preaching her or trying to convert any one. Just offering one teaching about Clothing that is taught from Scriptures. One school of thought is that nakedness represents our being unrighteous. God didn’t mind them being naked; Scriptures reads they were naked & unashamed. They didn’t even know they were naked really. The “coverings of leaves were Adam & Eve’s idea. Then, God killed a lamb and gave them their first set of clothes. We can conclude/infer a Lamb because Christ was the Perfect Lamb that became mankind Sacrifice.