Quoting Quiverfull: Women Be Silent In Church Matters?

Quoting Quiverfull: Women Be Silent In Church Matters? September 6, 2015

quotingquiverfullby Tim Bayly from The Bayly Blog – Rachel Miller and Valerie Hobbs: Where is the Apostle Paul When We Need Him?

Editor’s note: Tim Bayly is having what sounds like a ridiculous foot-stomping whiny little hissy fit over the fact that women – W-O-M-E-N – have opinions, options and leadership positions in churches over men. What is it about these weak Christian men that the moment a woman has an opinion they act like someone is trying to cut their penises off with a dull meat cleaver? It does not say anything positive about their shaky grasp of masculinity. Relax, Tim, women aren’t out to ‘get’ you. What did these two women do to invoke the petty behavior of Tim Bayly? Why they openly criticized John Piper and Doug Wilson on the internet in an excellent piece here on  Patheos.  Rather than actually respond point by point to Miller and Hobbs and explain why he thinks they are wrong Tim Bayly goes for the cheap and nasty response of women criticizing anything about men is rebellion against their Bible roles. Classy.

Currently, there are several pieces out there on the web that display the depth of rebellion against God’s Order of Creation that has taken over the Reformed church today. Let’s start with two women who have gone to the internet to correct and rebuke a number of church officers including Pastors John Piper and Doug Wilson.

The first thing to note is that they are women. Of course my pointing this out will elicit howls from the Joni Rebel side. “Our being women has absolutely nothing to do with it,” they’ll protest. But of course, it has everything to do with it. When women such as Dr. Valerie Hobbs and Ms. Rachel Miller publicly admonish and rebuke men, particularly men who are ordained officers of Christ’s Church, it would be hard to imagine any clearer rebellion against their sex. To say these women are immodest or that the viewing of their public exercise is unseemly is a gross understatement, Scripturally. This is sexual rebellion on the order of the male effeminacy that Scripture tells us disbars a man from…

the Kingdom of God:

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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NLQ Recommended Reading …

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  • Em

    The women are the ones in “sexual rebellion”? What about the wave of evangelical molesters?

  • Nea

    That’s just Satan and totally forgiveable. /s

  • Nea

    Shorter: DAMNIT PEOPLE STOP BLURRING RIGID GENDER ROLES, I CAN’T COPE. Also, I can’t actually rebut what those women say, so I’m just going to point out that they have girl cooties. In conclusion: Bible, bible, penis, amen.

  • And porn’s fault. Which mean’s it actually, like Eve, the woman’s fault.

  • That the essence of an argument ad hominem, it attacks the qualifications of the person doing the arguing rather than the argument itself. That’s why arguments ad hominem are considered fallacious*. Tim Bayly is unable to recognize that he is making a fallacious argument, and he wouldn’t, of course, listen to a woman telling him he is doing so.

    It’s not even a coherent argument ad hominem. The apostle Paul did say women were to keep silent in church, but in the next verse, he says they can ask questions of their husbands at home. So he did not command women to be silent on the subject of church itself; he only commanded them to be silent in church itself. That makes the internet open for women’s opinions even by the shifting goalposts of people like Tim Bayly

    * and fall into the category of “fallacies of irrelevancy” – the personal characteristics of the person making the argument are irrelevant to the validity of the argument being made.

  • Allison the Great

    Bayly complains about effeminate men, but it is completely lost on him that he is more effeminate than any of the men that he complains about. He doesn’t seem to understand that he is the exact thing that he is continuously lamenting about in his blog: a whiney little drama queen of a man. I think that’s hilarious.

    Update: If you ever read the comments, it’s kind of sickening that his commenters and his followers have made so much of an idol of him. And the men who worship him so much are either just as or even more “whiney and effeminate”. The irony of their complaints, that they’re actually throwing hissy fits about themselves, is completely lost on them.

  • Allison the Great

    And none of his arguments are ever new. They’re always “creation order’ “Adam-first-then-Eve” “women in rebellion”. All he can ever do is bloviate about how much he doesn’t like it. He can’t present a better argument. What we see here is all he’s got.

  • KarenJo12

    The comment section is interesting, because the Baylys are totally okay with Kamila Ludwig tearing apart anyone who disagrees with their patriarchal crap whether male or female. Ludwig is highly educated, never married, and has a supervisory job, but she’s not usurping male authority because she says she’s not. I refer to her as Aunt Kamilla, after the brutal enforcers in Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale.”

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    Sounds like something I need to change my email signature to – Bible, bible, penis, amen! Love it.

  • Friend

    “Church officers.” Pulling us over for Thinking While Female, issuing tickets to hell.

  • Anonyme

    Well, Jesus never talked to women as equals and welcomed their input…
    Except for Mary and Martha. And Mary Magdalene. And the ‘woman at the well’. And the woman who anointed his feet. And the adultress from the ‘cast the first stone’ message…

  • Allison the Great

    Yes, because thinking and voicing our thoughts while female is both rebellion and heresy. /sarcasm.

    But seriously, Baby Bayly thinks exactly that. If we have thoughts and opinions, we shouldn’t voice them. If we’re good at something that is normally reserved for men, we shouldn’t do it. If we accomplish something that has nothing to do with raising children, it should not be celebrated, for doing anything outside of the sphere of “biblical womanhood” goes against our sex.

    I honestly don’t understand how someone can be so fussy that they get miffed when we don’t always act according to our sex or whatever. What does that even look like, really? When I try to picture that I just see a bunch of people who are overcompensating.

    Update: I re-read this post and I saw that it made no sense. It seems I had an issue with autocorrect changing my words after I’d typed them.

  • Nea

    If we accomplish something that has nothing to do with raising children, it should not be celebrated

    Then he’d better get off the internet and computers, shouldn’t he? He’s getting Admiral Hopper’s and Hedy Lamarr’s cooties all over his keyboard.

  • Allison the Great

    If one were to tell him of this, he’d probably lament that her accomplishments were because men didn’t do it, say that she was supported by a man or that a man really did what she did, or that she was in rebellion and that a man would have done it later. His ego is really, really fragile. Then he tries to make himself sound like less of a misogynist by saying that his wife likes to go on zip lines.

  • Allison the Great

    It is interesting that he completely ignores the molestation and goes right to stamping his feet about women having opinions, isn’t it? He doesn’t care about the molestations or any of that. Who cares! Women are rebelling against their sex! Someone has to put a stop to it!

    Whenever I picture Tim Bayly throwing a fit about something, I picture him as Eric Cartman crying.


  • Allison the Great

    You’re right, I can’t stand Kamila, and she doesn’t even know I exist, I’ve only read her comments. She’s a massive ass kisser. All of them are, but it’s nauseating to see a woman kiss the ass of such a misogynist as Tim Bayly.

  • persephone

    I wonder if it relates to all the times their mommies literally beat their butts. More fallout from corporal punishment?

  • Suzanne Harper Titkemeyer

    His fits are very Cartman like..

  • pinkie

    Speaking of Aunts, that would be a good classification for Debi Pearl also.

  • Allison the Great

    Picturing Cartman have made Bayly’s hissy fits comical to me. There are also several videos of angry toddlers on YouTube, and those angry toddlers are a lot like Bayly too.

  • Poster Girl

    Wonder how he feels about Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann criticizing President Obama?

  • KarenJo12

    She and I have had several run-ins at other websites.

  • KarenJo12

    I think we should adopt Aunt as the title for women like Kamila and Debi Perl.

  • pinkie

    …And Nancy Campbell. Give ’em some virtual cattle prods and we’re all set.

  • Antoinette Herrera

    Angry toddlers eventually calm down, though. Tim Bayly? Not so much.

  • Antoinette Herrera

    It’s probably wank bank fodder for him.

  • Allison the Great

    Oh fuck, she inflicts herself on other websites too? So she’s Patriarchy’s Favorite Internet Honey Badger (TM).

  • Allison the Great

    True. Given the sheer number of posts of about Feminism on his blog, he’s always got to be throwin’ them hissy fits about girls and their cooties and how we’re not allowed to touch boy stuff, because that’s the rules, and if we don’t follow them he’ll tell his (sky) daddy.

  • KarenJo12

    Yep, Like I said, she’s an Aunt. She replied to a woman calling her out at Baylyblog with “And I’m not your ‘dear'” because the woman to whom she was replying started her comment “Dear Kamila.” She’s a really darling.

  • Astrin Ymris

    Obama’s not an “ordained officer of Christ’s Church”, so that’s totes okay. Women criticizing secular men is always acceptable.

    Neat how that works out for them, isn’t it?

  • Allison the Great

    She needs to get over herself. I can’t stand those honey badgers who think they can talk down to independent women.

  • Joy

    Hmmm… he almost sounds hysterical, doesn’t he?

    Oh but wait a minute… he can’t be acting emotionally out-of-control and hysterical! It’s only women who act that way. Men are always rational and logical!


  • pinkie

    Kudos to them! 🙂 In this case, Aunt would almost be 1984-style doublespeak – The ones with the real power (men) give out a smidge of power to some women and use them to control other women, using them as vicious cultural enforcers.

  • Aimee Shulman

    These people don’t really have all that much interest in what Jesus actually did and said. They’re much more interested in figuring out how they can twist it to make other people obey their demands. Funny how these men who claim to care so much about Jesus act exactly like the Pharisees he rebuked—no servant hearts here, no washing of feet, only hissy fits and outrage that someone isn’t meekly submitting to whatever ridiculous restrictions these guys feel others should obey.

  • gimpi1

    Well, since many of these extremists believe that “male effeminacy” ought to be punished with death, and women having opinions, knowing facts, offering their viewpoints or being educated enough to correct a man is “sexual rebellion on the order of male effeminacy,” I assume this fellow wants to imprison and/or execute women for thinking. Nice.

    I will say this; it’s thoughtful of Mr. Bayly to let everyone know just exactly how insecure, afraid and weak he is, and how far he’s willing to go to coddle his fragile identity. We now know to keep him well away from any authority. He clearly can’t be trusted with it.