Quoting Quiverfull: Victimhood Worst Thing Ever?

Quoting Quiverfull: Victimhood Worst Thing Ever? November 22, 2016

quotingquiverfullby Shalom Pearl Brand from No Greater Joy – Bossy Flossy

Editor’s note: This is Shalom’s advice on how to keep one child from being bossy towards the next youngest sibling. The unquoted advice isn’t bad, teach the kids to take turns being ‘the boss’ but this crap about victimhood and tattletails is just vile. These are children we’re talking about and Shalom is making one type of negative childhood traits to be something almost evil.

It is very important that Laila not know I am putting Gracie in her place, for then Laila will assume a victim attitude, whining, “she is hurting me and being mean to me.” The victim attitude is a much worse problem to deal with than a bossy or even mean attitude, for you can train bossy out of them, but the child who is always running to mom to be rescued is so pathetic I would not want to babysit her or my girls to play with her. As the second child, Laila is already subject to the hazards of victimhood, so I do not want to reinforce it by rebuking her bossy sister within her hearing.

My goal is that Laila trust her sister and that Gracie be protective of Laila. Both of these responses are crucial. Gracie cannot be protective of a tattletale sister who has learned that over-telling gets her mastery over her big sister; nor can Laila learn submission from a big sister who uses her authority to rule her unjustly. Keep in mind, of the two bad habits, the over-telling sissy is the greater fault and ugliest trait, one that is perpetuated by Mama always believing her sweet, lying baby.

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders, cultural enforcers and those that seek to keep women submitted to men and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull and Spiritual Abuse honestly and thoughtfully.

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  • jennabobenna

    Really?! A “tattle-tale” will learn how to deal with conflict constructively if guided to a place where they can learn the difference between when an adult is needed to intervene and when to deal with situations on their own. Children first learn morality in relation to themselves, this young children are susceptible to believing they have been wronged even when they haven’t been because their concept of fair is still in development. Part of parenting is guiding your children through development so that they grow out of their selfish tendencies and become productive citizens.

    On the other hand, a “bossy” child is going through the same self-centered phase and can be guided towards being more cooperative by a parent who isn’t more concerned with teaching the tattler a lesson than fostering amicable sibling relationships.

    One is not better than the other. Kids are selfish. Not because they’re sinful but because they aren’t adults and they are still learning how to navigate the world. Shaming your children for being kids is a recipe for years of therapy down the line.

  • SAO

    Oh, Good God. They are kids. Expecting the older to always be fair and protective is expecting a small child to have the maturity of an adult. To expect the younger to “be in submission” to the older is to ask her to submit to a small child as an “authority” — just ludicrous.

    Younger kids can never win fights, whether physical or from mere “bossiness” so they tattle to enforce their rights. It’s normal. They are asking the parent to intervene to prevent them from an unjust “authority” in a power struggle.

    Parents need to be alert to power struggles and not side automatically with either child. If you don’t know what happened, separate the kids.

  • Melody

    Amen! As an oldest kid, I couldn’t agree more. I hated always having to be the responsible one, who was seen as the cause, only because of my age. Even if I hadn’t done anything, I was still expected to have fixed it on account of being the eldest…

    And my younger, and only, brother was never submissive at all, so my age-authority virtually didn’t exist anyway 🙂 even if I tried to enforce it. So I got no benefits out of my age, only responsibilities. Not a good deal.

  • Evelyn

    Geez. I tell kids that there are two kids of “telling:” If they are telling to keep someone safe, I want to hear that so that I can help. If they are telling to get someone in trouble, I don’t want to hear that. If they persist in tattling, I just ask, “Are you telling me so that I can help keep Susie safe? Or are you telling me because you want Susie to be in trouble?” Sometimes with an added, “I know you really like following the rules, and you wish everybody did as much as you do, but I’m the teacher/babysitter/parent, and it’s my job to worry about the rules. You go play.”

  • AuntKaylea

    I think this is absolutely toxic advice.

    I was younger, smaller and the only female sibling in my family. One of my brothers liked to hit me repeatedly in the back in the kidney area – he did it persistently rather than hard – so it was always sore and I was always afraid of him.

    Every time I went to my parents (when I was around 5 years old and the sibling was around 8), I got in trouble for tattling. When I tried to fight back, I would scratch, he would show my parents a single scratch, and I would get in trouble, and my parents would cut my nails so short my fingers hurt. It was torture.

    The lesson I learned was that that house was not safe, that the last people to trust were my parents and family, and that the smartest thing to do was to have an escape plan and a hiding place.

    Learning to speak up when something is wrong is so hard in our culture that I think that teaching the difference while encouraging speaking up is so much better. But that is the sort of hand-on parenting that may require having less than 20 kids.

  • bekabot

    Keep in mind, of the two bad habits, the over-telling sissy is the
    greater fault and ugliest trait, one that is perpetuated by Mama always
    believing her sweet, lying baby.

    This is an arguable point, but I’m amazed by the note on which it ends. I’m amazed by the assumption on the part of the mother here that her younger kid has to be lying because she’s the baby and the weaker of the two. Jesus God, where does that come from? Not that it’s really any better to assume right off the bat that the older, bigger kid is the one who has to be at fault, but at least the older kid would be somewhat better equipped to absorb a blow of that kind. And honestly, why does either of the two kids have to wind up being the bad guy? Tiny tykes are not usually moral exemplars; it’s a mug’s game expecting extraordinary decency from any of them. Plus — I’ve never been a mother and I’ve never raised a kid, but it seems to me that a good way to keep kids from “playing the victim” would be to show them that not every human encounter has to have a victim in it. Just saying.

  • Nea

    “How dare victims complain of being victimized! Shun them!”
    “If rape and harassment really did happen, why didn’t the victim TELL anyone?”

  • Nea

    They are asking the parent to intervene to prevent them from an unjust “authority” in a power struggle.

    And they’re being taught by the parent that asking for justice is SO HORRIBLE that the parent doesn’t want to deal with them and would shun them if possible.

  • Friend

    I wonder if the fixation on “playing the victim” has to do with wanting to make sure her child doesn’t turn into a liberal? In Christian separatist circles, it’s commonly alleged that liberals are perpetually crying about imagined injustice and then begging for a government handout.

  • Astrin Ymris

    That’s the REAL problem… kids believing that they have a right to protest unfair treatment and get redress. Why, if that idea gets traction, you’ll have blacks protesting institutional racism in the justice system, farm workers forming unions, and college co-eds calling out Rape Culture! We can’t have that!/sarc

  • Nea

    Remember the author is the daughter of someone who said to “rejoice” when you see your kid being bullied.

    The people who like to claim life is brutal and unfair tend to be the most invested in making damnsure it is for everyone around them.

  • SAO

    I’m a younger sibling and when I had kids past the age of 5, my sister started talking about the disadvantages of being an older sibling. My view from childhood was that the older had all the advantages and the younger nothing but disadvantages. It was eye-opening and helped me see that my son would provoke his older sister then yell that she was hitting/pinching him (having known exactly what she’d do) so that she’d get in trouble. Sometimes she did pick on him for no reason, but sometimes, he just provoked her so she’d get in trouble. It got better when I gave them both time-outs for not playing well together. I think it taught them to leave when the other was annoying.

  • bekabot

    That’s odd, because I would have thought that allowing your kid to be pushed around by an older sibling was a pretty good recipe for producing a liberal…but then nobody’s parenting methods are foolproof…I’ve never raised a kid but I’ve noticed that much.

  • Saraquill

    I’m sad that Michael Pearl’s child harming rearing style has been passed to another generation.

  • Saraquill

    I still remember my first day in 1st grade, when I reported that child A hit child B when the teacher wasn’t looking. The teacher told me I was a bad person for relaying this tattling. It took me years to unlearn that speaking up makes me yucky.

  • Astrin Ymris

    I had the same experience! If my brother punched me, my parents would just tell him mildly not to do that (which had zero effect). But my scratching him in self-defense caused my parents to totally lose their shit.

  • persephone

    It’s part of the toxic Pearl and CPM hypermasculinity structure, where men who don’t take charge and hunt and fish are sissies, and probably gay, and women have to be just as strong, but have to still be in submission.

  • Anonyme

    This is why the zero tolerance policies in (some) schools are a bunch of bullcrap. Too many cases of bullies hitting/fighting/otherwise abusing classmates and the victim getting in trouble for fighting back.

  • Astrin Ymris

    That’s not a problem of anti-bullying programs per se as it is creating and instituting an anti-bullying program without first deeply and mindfully delving into what bullying is.

    When you skip this essential step, you wind up with programs which wind up defining bullying by specific actions and words without considering the context. Kids can be labeled “bullies” for arguing over a crayon– and if they’re poor or non-white, can wind up being set on the school-to-prison pipeline.

    Bullying is about intimidation and disempowerment. The message to the victim is “I can do anything I want to you– batter you, humiliate you, take or destroy your valued property, grope you without your consent– and you can’t stop me!. If you try to tell, the teachers either won’t believe you or tell you to ‘handle it yourself’. And then you’ll face our retribution.”

    Trump’s grabbing young actresses and models “by the pussy” is bullying. Cops who use stop-and-frisk laws and civil forfeiture against minorities are engaged in bullying. The fact is that our culture is rife with bullying; schoolyard bullying is only one part of it.

  • bekabot

    And yet, the Pearl and CPM hypermasculinity guys don’t have to do anything physical, not in reality. The most physically challenging thing they ever need to do is lift a heavy Biblical concordance on and off the shelf. When the house needs fixin’, they expect their submissive wives to fix the house. Maybe they (the hypermasculinity guys) should get out more and shuck some corn or hoe some fields or something; that might improve the prevailing mood, which certainly seems to be surly.

  • persephone

    Yeah, these guys have no concept of masculinity.

  • bekabot

    I’m not eager to nag them about their manhood; I just think they need more fresh air.

  • ConcepcionImmaculadaPantalones

    I got suspended in high school for defending myself from a girl who then turned around and complained to school admins, they did a search of my backpack and found the knife that I brought to school for a class assignment I had to present that day (the teacher for the class backed me up even!) while the bully girl went on her merry way, I was the one who was punished.