The Bible is Fallible—And It’s Okay

The Bible is Fallible—And It’s Okay February 19, 2019
Photo credit: Pixabay

Over a decade ago, a person in formal leadership at the church I attended stated  in a conversation that the Bible was not the infallible word of God.

Gasp.

To say I was taken aback would  put it lightly. I was utterly mortified that a person of much spiritual influence would state these words. I questioned the validity of his Christianity. I thought the Bible was synonymous with God. Because I believed that the Bible was the living, breathing word of God, I perceive this individual denied God himself (‘cause God is a dude, right?).

During days 224-230 of my year of calling it quits on the Good Book, my observation of the continual scripture wars in our world reminded me of why I no longer view the Bible as the infallible word of God.

If you are truly holy you will make it one word: Theinfallibleworduvgawwwd.

I think it is awesome  to transform from a pearl-clutching self-righteous Christian do-gooder, with all knowing from the Bible of what it takes to make it into the gates constructed by the very same heavenly pearls, into a person who has taken the Bible down a peg or two. Who am I kidding? We’re talking about a lot of pegs.

I got it wrong. I got this person all wrong.

It is okay.

When we are evolving spiritually, the beliefs that served us for one season of our life will not necessarily serve us in another.

It is not the end of the world to get things wrong about your beliefs. It is the beginning of a new one.

Even the notion of “getting it wrong” can benefit from a hearty dose of benevolent scrutiny.

A Human Book

The Bible is a very human book. All sacred texts are human.

It is okay.

Actually, it is amazing.

It is liberating because it expands our vision of how to think and be in this world. The construction of the Biblical text has been subjected to the social, political, and cultural influences of the writers and scribes.

Various scholars have argued that we have hundreds of thousands of variants. It does not make the Bible less useful. It makes it more accessible.

Freedom lies in how we hold these sacred books and concepts.

If you hold the Bible as the definitive Alpha and Omega of all things pertaining to life, whereby absolving you from figuring things out for yourself or with other people, then most likely you will be confined to a proscribed list of dos and don’ts to appease a psychotic God who will strike your can down punish you at any infraction.

Also, with this belief system, we never quite know what infraction will be spared or will incur the earth swallowing us whole. I liken it to God playing heavenly Russian roulette when punishing us for sins.

In other words, it is scary out here for die-hard Bible thumpers because according the Bible, God can make you die a hard and miserable death over any kind of infraction.

You can drop dead after telling a lie (See the Book of Acts). Honesty is paramount in my life.  Yet, I would not have someone drop dead over it. Sheesh.

Such stories, for those who take the Bible literally and as a Divine-automatically written work,  lend toward the fear and control that’s heavily pronounced in much of contemporary Christianity.

On the other hand, by humanizing the Bible, we do not need to hold our breath, wondering if we might make it to heaven or if our salvation is still in-tact because we paid our light bill instead of tithing last month.

We are able to understand God as loving and just, not petty and punitive. And it inspires us to work out how to love and be just in a diverse world.

The Bible is useful and powerful, along with the multitudes of books written.

This Thing Called Life

Because the Bible is human, it does not contain all truth.

The Bible does not contain all of what God had done and will do. We, the people of this earth, are very much part of how things turn out here.

The Bible can give insights. It does not have all of the answers for an ever changing world. Figuring out this thing called life is up to us.

There are only so many ways we can try to spin the Bible to get out of the slavery endorsement conundrum.

It is a human book. The same book used to promote freedom and equity across races is the same one used to do the opposite.

The same book used to denounce LGBTQIA is the same one used to support.

What a magical text! You can almost make it what you want it to be.

You can pick out a passage, wave the book around, and abracadabra.  It transforms into the truth, Honey!

Thus, we have a proliferation of Christian church denominations around the world. We have not agreed on this sacred book.

I would like to think that God is a clear communicator.

The challenge lies not with God needing to return to college to take Communications 101. It lies in people having an understanding that humans wrote the Bible. God did not write it like a dear diary to the universe.

Closing: Divine Inspiration

After years of cherry picking scriptures to annihilate my enemies prove a dogma central to my faith, my reddened fingers became worn.

I have been healed of Biblical carpal tunnel syndrome.

All of us have the power and ability to receive inspired words from God.

Inspired words are not necessarily direct words. I am ever inspired by God and learn daily lessons available to me from simply going about my business.

Various art, media, and industry furnish evidence of Divine inspiration.

Most of all, you are the evidence, too.


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Matthew

    I truly believe that this IS the discussion of the day to be had in the church at large.

    I don´t want to be overly negative, but Christian unity will continue to be greatly hindered when some hold
    to biblical inerrancy and others do not.

    It´s competing ideologies and conclusions trying to grasp at and claim the name Christianity.

  • Etranger

    Better to use reason to live a good life than to rely on something that is deeply flawed and contradictory. Essentially, by believing that the Bible should be a basis for your beliefs you allow for extreme moral relativism. For example, a Christian who loves his/her gay friends for who they are is just as correct in that belief as the Westboro Baptist Church. Just two different interpretations.

  • Kendall Fields

    So then you should have no problem with a Christian loving a murderer for who they are. The Bible is clear on what it means.

  • Etranger

    Really? Not sure the bible is all that clear on that (if anything!). Shouldn’t we love all humans on some level?

  • Kendall Fields

    It is clear on it but you blind yourself to it. Continue to promote sin and you will bring God’s wrath down on the church.

  • Etranger

    Chapter and verse please 🙂 (Heck, even Christ loved sinners remember…but I agree, you can find a verse to support your hatred of murderers and you can find a verse to support loving murderers. That is why anyone who believes the Bible is a good basis for justifying one’s moral views is an idiot, plain and simple).

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah the idiot is the one who disregards the Bible and say it is not a good basis for morality. Jesus loves people but did he not say go and sin no more. So you have no good reason to justify sin. Especially since Paul points out that justifying sin is the same as rebelling against God. Or will you continue to try to discredit scripture despite it being God breathed?

  • Etranger

    It is impossible to have a rational conversation when people talk like you. I never even suggested justifying sin. I am all for a consistent morality. Christians haven’t figured that out yet. Sin is a bad measurement of morality. Seriously, if you sleep with your menstruating wife you are sinning in some people’s books.

  • Kendall Fields

    If you were a Christian you would know that the menstruating situation is part of the Jewish purity laws and is not a sin just a prohibition like the dietary laws and the interest law.

  • Etranger

    I know it part of Jewish laws (so is the clobber passage on homosexuality btw). I was talking about the notion of sin…keep up.

  • Etranger

    But excellent illustration of how you pick and choose what you like from the “good book” 🙂

  • Kendall Fields

    And homosexuality is a sin but I am just pointing out the truth.

  • Etranger

    That is not clear from your book 🙂

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah I just know what is and what is not a sin. If anyone is picking and choosing, it would you be the perfect description of an Atheist.

  • Kendall Fields

    It is clear but again you indulging in your sin and trying to justify it.

  • Etranger

    Not a perfect description of an Atheist (you actually have no idea from my comments here what my belief in a god is…). But definitely a good description of a rational ethical humanist! That is, someone who understands how to determine right and wrong without misinterpreting a book of mythology written by men.

  • Etranger

    Well, get your stones ready and start killing the gays. After all, that is in your book… Why don’t you follow your book more passionately? Ah, hypocrisy…a Christian’s stock in trade!

  • Kendall Fields

    A “humanist” which is just another word for worshipper of man. You only follow the rules of man which continues to fall into sin. I follow the living God who sent his only son to save all of mankind. Your denial of God is only making your own situation worse.

  • Etranger

    “You only follow the rules of man which continues to fall into sin.” That is quaint. What is the Christian moral code but a set of rules of men? I think you missed the point of the article 🙂

    Humanist is not the “worship” of man. Good ole Christian education there eh bud?

  • Kendall Fields

    Because then not only would homosexuals die but so would liars, murderers, thieves, etc would die as well. Also God will punish all those who deny Jesus when there time comes but you wouldn’t know that little Atheist. After all, you guys pathetic look through the Bible to find “contradictions” only to fail to find any.

  • Etranger

    Probably your arm would get tired. Christians love to judge everyone in their sight! Then you also might get targeted as well! Definitely some passages in that book of yours about the sin of pride. And spreading hate against innocent people (gays) certainly can’t be god in the eyes of any legitimate god.

  • Kendall Fields

    Christians dont follow man which you do, we only follow God. The article is foolish and idiotic and tries to discredit the Bible pathetically like what you are doing. I consider humanism to be the worship of man because it removes God from the equation and treats mankind like an item to be worshipped. I don’t think your “humanist” education is helping you at all.

  • Kendall Fields

    No one is without sin and saying homosexuals are innocent for doing a sin they justify and promote is a lie. You call telling the truth to be hate then why don’t you stand up for murderers and thieves as well and say they are innocent. I don’t love judging others but I judge because I love God and his son Jesus. However you have shown that you hate God and hate the truth that is Jesus.

  • Etranger

    Murderers and thieves committed a wrong against another or society. A gay person commits no wrong against anyone or society, per se. That is where you lack reason. Anyone can plainly see that.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope homosexuals have committed a wrong to themselves and others. Anyone who follows God would understand that but you deny the righteousness of God to justify evil.

  • Etranger

    Please explain how they have committed a wrong to themselves (without ref to god) and especially to others.

  • David Bruggink

    Sooo if the version of Christianity you practice is the “One True Version” as you say, then apparently the fruits of the spirit, as demonstrated by your rancorous arguing, are Haughtiness, Disdain, Arrogance, and Belligerence. What a beautiful Faith to share with the world! Maybe check out Buddhism instead?

  • Kendall Fields

    Sexual diseases especially AIDs. And tell me how is it right when there is no love in their actions.

  • Etranger

    How do you know there is no love? And if there are some folks who have sex for pleasure, so what? No harm there. Are you anti straight people because of sexual diseases ? Just curious. Not all gay people have sexual diseases (I know that hurts your narrative and desires). Again, consistency not your strong suit. Okay so again, please respond to my original question.

  • Kendall Fields

    Besides even if it did no “harm” it still stands against what is righteous. I don’t need another reason to trust God.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes preaching the word of God is true. You have a problem with that?

  • Kendall Fields

    Sexual diseases are brought about by people doing what is wrong and others who spread them so they won’t die alone. Nah it doesn’t hurt the truth because at the end the day doing homosexuality is destroying your soul. There is no love in homosexuality because it isn’t love. I know you aren’t a very consistent person but try to do what is right and not promote homosexuality instead of listening to lies that people say to justify it.

  • David Bruggink

    Devastating wrongs have been committed in the name of “preaching the word of God.” You can call it whatever you want, but they will still be prideful words coming from your mouth, and this is no gospel at all. Anyone who claims to speak for God is a liar. Jesus had harsh words for those who claimed to know God’s will.

  • Etranger

    Thank you for being honest. It illustrates the irrational and willful ignorance of the religious!

  • Etranger

    I know plenty of people who are gay and in loving relationships! Sorry but that proves your fantasy wrong. Also, it is wrong to knowingly spread disease. But that is not related to the issue of homosexuality itself being wrong.

  • Etranger

    You reveal the conundrum of all Christian sects. They all claim to know God’s will and push that on others. It is a scary phenomenon.

  • Kendall Fields

    Did I ever say I spoke for God? No. I am telling the truth? Yes. And there have been evils committed by those who hated God. How am I being prideful?

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes and your comment shows the stupidity and foolishness of those who hate God.

  • Kendall Fields

    It is related to homosexuality being wrong. “Loving” relationships which can be applied to affairs, incest, and bestiality as well. Sorry but your “experience” doesn’t make it the truth.

  • Etranger

    Not sure how you got that, but okay…lol

  • Etranger

    Just because you think there is no love (because all you think about when you think of homosexuality is the sex act itself…like a lot of perverted, sex-obsessed Christians) doesn’t mean it is true. Sorry but your “opinion” doesn’t make it truth. Actual evidence contrary to your opinion makes my statement true. That is how facts work.

  • David Bruggink

    Claiming that “my religious interpretation is the absolute correct one” is the same as claiming to speak for God… Anyone who claims they have the religious truth always fall back on “Hey it’s not US saying it – it’s God!” But no, man. Everyone brings an interpretive framework to their religious text… and it’s a good thing they do. Otherwise there would be even more people colonizing, raping and slaughtering than there are, and claiming “It’s not my word that said to do it, it’s God’s!” Do you think the people who wrote down the original text weren’t processing and filtering their experiences through their own personal viewpoint? That’s why (if your eyes are open) you’ll see many theological, moral, and factual inconsistencies. To claim they aren’t there is to bury your head in the sand singing LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU BECAUSE I AM LIVING IN A BEAUTIFUL DREAM AND I DON’T CARE ABOUT FACTS

  • Kendall Fields

    You call Christians sex obsessed because you don’t want to accept the truth. Your “evidence” is nothing but a lie that you continue spout in the hope it becomes true.

  • Kendall Fields

    Did God command people to rape? No. I have an issue with murder because we are not commanded by God to destroy the evil in the world as he will deal with that. I have no problem with a country taking over another country. And what inconsistencies are there in the Bible because as many scholars have shown there are none. There is only way and anyone who claims there isn’t is the one burying their head in the sand like you. Also it is an awful thing for people to have multiple ideas about the text when there is only one right answer.

  • Etranger

    And you have absolutely no evidence but your imagination. This is weird.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah I have enough evidence to known what is or isn’t the truth. Unfortunately for you and your cause, the truth lies with God.

  • Etranger

    You should present the evidence then!! You haven’t done it yet…

  • Kendall Fields

    You haven’t displayed your evidence especially since you failed to discredit what is in the Bible like the author of this article.

  • Etranger

    Well I gave you evidence that gays can be in loving relationships. I debunked your claim that gays harm society because they are all spreading disease… The Bible doesn’t address either one of those. It was written by someone who didn’t like some people’s sexual activities, just like if you or your pastor wrote it. Had you or the other person who wrote the Bible had a different experience in life you might write it differently. For instance, if someone who liked people and saw the good in them wrote the bible, it might be a much better resource for folks to live a good life. Instead, it is just a book of things compiled by disgruntled men.

  • Kendall Fields

    So then by that “standard” of yours bestiality, adultery, incest, and polygamy should be fair game as well. And not only that but murder, suicide, stealing, and rape should be okay as well because the writers mention all of these to be wrong but they were “disgruntled men” according to you so their word doesn’t matter. Like Pharaoh you harden your heart against God.

  • Etranger

    Not at all. My standard would not accept those things because it is demonstrable that they harms others (except for polygamy – if everyone is consenting it is not my place to say it is wrong. Usually it is not good for the women involved however so it is more often than not wrong. Funny how it is often practiced by religious people though…)

  • Kendall Fields

    Excuses, excuses you have excuses to justify what is wrong for days. But you seem to forget that incest, adultery both involve consent but like homosexuality they are wrong. Also polygamy has been wrong ever since Creation and using the “religious people” argument is not helping you.

  • Etranger

    I wasn’t using any “religious people” argument. I explained when it was wrong. Incest and adultery can cause harm to the participants and adultery causes harm to the person being cheated on. It involves lying and disrespecting another. I provided no “excuses” for justifying bad behavior there. Instead, I provided a rational explanation of why those things were wrong. Homosexuality isn’t even in the same league with those things.

  • Kendall Fields

    No Incest doesn’t hurt the participants unlike homosexuality. It is wrong because family members are not supposed to have sexual relations. Adultery is wrong because a man is supposed to be loyal to his wife and vice versa. No all you have done is trying to say homosexuality is not wrong and you have failed. Homosexuality is just as wrong as incest and adultery. Or do you not have a problem with two brothers or two sisters have sex because according to you homosexuality is not wrong.

  • Etranger

    There is potential psychological harm involved in incest. However, that is not always the case. I am glad I get to clarify at least – it is not immoral like adultery but it is not advisable. Homosexuality does no harm like adultery does however. The problem with “adultery” is that there is harm done to the unknowing spouse. If the couple allows each other to have sex with others then there is no wrong done and it is not adultery. You still have not shown why homosexuality is wrong, except that you think God thinks it is. That is not enough in a rational world.

  • Kendall Fields

    All you have is excuses to justify what is wrong. You aren’t being rational nor realistic. No it is still adultery if they allow each other to sleep with others. Also it looks you still didn’t answer my question from earlier which I am not surprised about given how you have been acting.

  • Etranger

    I haven’t answered one of your questions? My gosh, I have responded to everything you have thrown at me, despite the fact that you still have given no reason why homosexuality is wrong 🙂

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh I already stated why it is wrong. You haven’t responded to everything which is why I don’t take your words seriously. Your excuses to justify homosexuality get old.

  • Etranger

    LOL sounds good. “Because God” is not a reason something is wrong. It is a belief why something is wrong. Oh well, maybe I missed something. There was a lot of sh*t I had to muddle through from you.

  • Etranger

    Typical experience for me – I discuss in good faith and rarely receive reciprocity from the christian fundamentalist respondent…oh there’s the problem…fundamentalist = non-thinking.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah if anyone has been laying poop around it would be you from the amount of lie you’ve been spouting.

  • Etranger

    Have a good one!!

  • Kendall Fields

    Typical experience – Atheist attacks me for stating the truth and says I am irrational when they aren’t the ones using their heads.

  • Kendall Fields

    Ah so you admit that you have been lying? So you finally decided to be honest.

  • Etranger

    No truth from you. You were incapable of giving any evidence when requested but continued to malign a group of people for no reason at all. Very sad.

  • Etranger

    LOL. Oh what the heck – you’re a weird distraction. Please name one lie I told.

  • Kendall Fields

    No it is sad that you continue to justify the disgusting actions of others and try to justify it while also attempting to attack God. I have told the truth while you have shown nothing but lies and excuses.

  • Kendall Fields

    Aww you call me weird because you can’t handle the truth? How pitiful of you. I could name several of your lies from ones you have spoken about the word of God to your lies about homosexuality to you saying I don’t think to you lying about answering all of my questions. It would get tedious annd pathetic after awhile.

  • Etranger

    That is what I thought. I didn’t lie once in our dialogue. You did, however. You said gay people were harming themselves and others, with no real evidence. You said that homosexuality is akin to murder and theft. That is a lie. No evidence to support your claim. You said that there is no such thing as a “loving homosexual relationship”. Again, a lie with no proof.

  • Kendall Fields

    You did lie. You ignored the truth and continued to deny it. You have shown no evidence to prove your lie same with your lies about the Bible. There is no such thing as a “loving homosexual relationship” same with incest, bestiality, and adultery.

  • Etranger

    “LALALALA – I say it is true so it is true” – you sound very very sad and childish. Please tell me you are 12 years old. I cringe at the thought that an adult male writes such drivel….

  • Kendall Fields

    AH the usual Atheist tactic of accusing their opponent of being a child because they hate the truth. You are getting pitiful by the minute.

  • Etranger

    Well. the evidence is there in black and white. None of your responses provide any truth about homosexuality. All of mine are based on evidence and truth. Sorry, you lose this one 🙂

  • Etranger

    I don’t know if it is an “atheist tactic”. I bet you do get the response a lot since you exhibit childish behavior, i.e., inability to formulate a rational thought. I asked for an instance of when I lied and you went on a rant about nonsense….

  • Kendall Fields

    No if anything you have shown that you have lost. Especially with you doing the “I say it is true so it is true” remark. You have not told the truth about homosexuality at all. You need to stop because you are starting to look even more pathetic.

  • Kendall Fields

    No I provided you with your instances but like always you form excuses to avoid answering for them. I have been telling the truth which you call being “irrational” while you have been lying.

  • Etranger

    Alright – well we are getting no where 🙂 It is always sad to see folks unwilling to argue in good faith. It has been a good illustration of Christian ignorance and inability to think, though. Very good reason for most of us to ignore what any of you have to say. All based on superstition!

  • Kendall Fields

    Quite hypocritical given how you acted. Your lies have just proved me right that you are like most Atheists I have encountered: hypocrites and liars. And for the person who talks so much of “reason” you have been the most unreasonable person here aside from the other guy.

  • @RaceandGrace

    The church competes over who has the truth. Attaching the weight of eternity on who gets this truth right creates more strife.

  • Matthew

    I think you are right. Thanks.

  • Chari McCauley

    But, both Father and His Son said that WE are not to judge.

    WE are not qualified; WE don’t have Their perspective.
    WE are to have empathy and get rid of the hubris!

  • Chari McCauley

    Even Moses got in trouble for putting words into Father’s mouth….

    You should take heed. Moses was not permitted to enter the promised land. It was just one example of The Father making a correction. King David is another.

    Father loves you; but, don’t put words into His mouth,…He WILL call you out.

    WE are not above Lucifer on that; hubris is NOT permitted. WE ALL have much left to learn.

  • Kendall Fields

    No he said for us to not hypocritically judge.

  • Kendall Fields

    Moses got in trouble for not listening to God and to top it off he said that only himself,Moses, was responsible for the Israelites leaving Egypt. David got into problems because he decide to do what was wrong I.e. adultery and murder by proxy.

  • Chari McCauley

    Oh please! Sexual misconduct has been hiding behind “the duty” to trust authority figures (doctors, police officers, pastors, priests, teachers, or whomever WE call “god” at the time) for quite some time.

    You should read Jeremiah; Father states His reasons for being upset with HIS PEOPLE pretty plainly. From the abuse of the land, the animals and each other. THAT behavior will NOT be permitted to enter His home.

  • Kendall Fields

    Were the Jews following God when Jeremiah spoke to them? No they weren’t.

  • Sandra Urgo

    As Rob Bell points out, the Bible is on a moral continuum, as mankind figures out morality through the ages. And morals regarding behavior do change as people learn more about science and psychology. That’s why, for example, we no longer put disrespectful children to death as was recommended in the Old Testament (exodus and deuteronomy).

  • Chari McCauley

    Exactly, those….who never sin…may cast stones.

  • Chari McCauley

    The crimes listed apply to ALL who wish to live with Him.

  • Kendall Fields

    And?

  • Kendall Fields

    Then judges cannot do their jobs nor can the police arrest a criminal.

  • Chari McCauley

    The crimes listed apply to ALL who wish to live with Him.

    Were the Jews following God when Jeremiah spoke to them? No they weren’t.

    Exactly, and?

    Do we have to be Jewish to commit a crime?

  • Kendall Fields

    Did I say you have to Jewish to commit a crime? No I didn’t. But it seems that you missed th3 point entirely.

  • Netizen_James

    As Master Kenobi taught us: “many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.”

  • Netizen_James

    In what way was the genocide waged against the Amalekites s(upposedly at YHWH’s command) a ‘good basis for morality’? Is murdering old men and capturing young girls to be used as sex slaves ‘moral’ behavior in modern times? Or are you ‘cherry picking’ that which you’re naming ‘Biblical Morality’ to fit your own existing notions?

  • Netizen_James

    There is no place in Scripture, properly translated and understood, where a loving monogamous consensual and mutually beneficial sexual relationship between two persons of the same gender is condemned as a sin. Sex as worship is a sin. Rape is a sin. Sexual exploitation is a sin. God is Love. Love cannot be a sin.

  • Netizen_James

    Yes, according to Scripture God commanded the Hebrews to rape the captured virgins of Canaanite tribes they conquered. (just because you call them ‘wives’ doesn’t keep them from being ‘sex slaves’)

  • Kendall Fields

    Tell me how was God wrong for having the Amalekites destroyed? A wicked group people who practiced despicable actions. Are you going to call soldiers evil for killing men in war? Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about making women unto sex slaves just your wicked lies. All you have shown thus far is a hatred of God and his word.

  • Kendall Fields

    Homosexuality is not love nor beneficial. Your pathetic attempts to justify sin are just pitiful.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nowhere in scripture did God say for the Israelites to rape Canaanites women especially since God hated rape and he told the Israelites to kill all the Canaanites and their cattle.

  • Netizen_James

    Where are you getting that homosexuality per se is a ‘sin’? Again, there is NO PLACE in Scripture where a loving monogamous consensual and mutually beneficial sexual relationship between two persons of the same gender is condemned as a sin. If you think there is such Scripture, site the passage, and prepare to get educated.

    Yes, two people of the same gender can love each other. Did not St. John claim to be the ‘disciple that Jesus loved’?

  • Netizen_James

    >Then judges cannot do their jobs nor can the police arrest a criminal<

    That you cannot differentiate social justice and crime from religion and sin is very telling, and very dangerous.
    The US Founders wrote and ratified our godless Constitution on purpose.

    Not all crimes are sins. Not all sins are crimes. Totally different set of considerations. Many citizens think eating pork is a 'sin'. Should government prohibit the production and distribution of pork products for human consumption on that basis? Of course not, that would be stupid. But that's the whole point. It's not government's job to enforce religious tenets or punish sin. That's not what government is for. That's why our founders carefully segregated civil authority from ecclesiastical authority. If you think same-gender sex is wrong, don't engage in same-gender sex. Simple. No need to corrupt the civil authority in an attempt to get YOUR religious tenets established as the 'officially correct' ones.

  • Netizen_James

    Are you telling the truth – no, you are not. You are claiming scripture condemns loving monogamous consensual sexual relationships between two persons of the same gender. There is no place in scripture where such relationships are condemned as sinful. thus you are not telling the TRUTH, only YOUR interpretation of Scripture.

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh from the several spots in scriptrue like Romans, the Gospels, and 1st Corinthians where marriage is stated to be between a man and a woman. Nowhere does scripture show homosexuality to be right. You do realize people say I love my mom, I love my dad, I love my dog, etc. Does that mean I want to have sex with them? No so did not try to say Jesus was a homosexual which is a sin.

  • Netizen_James

    From Numbers31: 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    Now what do you think ‘keep alive for yourselves’ mean? And why just the virgins? Clearly the point was to take those virgins and use them as sex slaves – to rape them and force them to bear children for the Hebrews. This is Scripture claiming that YHWH commanded the Hebrews to take sex slaves as plunder. So – either Scripture is infallible and YHWH did command this rape, or this is merely a story of past cultural victory, giving credit to God. Pick one.

  • Kendall Fields

    You say no judging so then judges cannot do their job by your standard. Do not try to justify homosexuality.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nowhere does scripture state that homosexuality is beneficial nor is it loving. You corrupt love with your false definition of it and your attempts to lie. I am not interpreting scripture just pointing out the truth which you are not doing.

  • Kendall Fields

    Even the devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes. If you going to quote the scripture then read the whole incident. Nowhere did it say for them to rape them or make them sex slaves. So the scripture has no flaw and God did not order rape. So how about you read the whole passage before you try to quote it?

  • soter phile

    If you consider yourself a follower of Jesus, why wouldn’t you share his view of the Scriptures?

    He constantly quoted the OT, even while dying on the cross.
    When Satan misused the Scriptures to tempt him, Jesus responded with… Scripture.
    He acknowledged human authorship while still calling it the “Word of God” (e.g., Mk.7:10-13).
    He once demonstrated the divinity of the messiah by pointing out a single word from the Psalms.
    He said not one iota would pass away (Mt.5:17f) & that it all basically pointed to him (Jn.5:39-40; Lk.24:27,44).

    It’s not just a matter of debating the ‘authority of Scripture’, but rather one of knowing & following Jesus.

    One doesn’t have to trust every word of Scripture to become a Christian,
    but the more you grow to follow Jesus, the more you trust every word of Scripture.

  • soter phile

    Because Rob Bell is a more authoritative source on morality than the most influential book in history?

    To be clear, the cross still says we all deserve death – as disrespectful children of God.
    And yet, in the very same place, God demonstrates his love is greater than our failure.

    We are worse off than we want to admit, but we are more loved than we ever dared to hope.

  • soter phile

    Funny that you don’t think human reasoning is ‘deeply flawed & contradictory’.
    I’d think that was rather clearly an empirically proven point by now.

    But the skeptic’s hypocrisy has always been the refusal to turn that skepticism on himself.

  • soter phile

    Louis Crompton was a gay man and a pioneer of queer studies.
    Here’s a quote from his massive book Homosexuality and Civilization:

    Some interpreters, seeking to migrate Paul’s harshness, have read the passage [in Romans 1] as condemning not homosexuals generally but only heterosexual men and women who experimented with homosexuality. According to this interpretation, Paul’s words were not directed at ‘bona fide’ homosexuals in committed relationships. But such a reading, however well-intentioned, seems strained and unhistorical. Nowhere does Paul or any other Jewish writer of this period imply the least acceptance of same-sex relations under any circumstances. The idea that homosexuals might be redeemed by mutual devotion would have been wholly foreign to Paul or any Jew or early Christian.

  • soter phile

    Kenobi also said: “only a Sith deals in absolutes.”
    Gasp… that statement itself is an absolute…

  • Etranger

    I never said human reasoning cannot be flawed and contradictory. At the end of the day, though, the beauty is you can get to some workable notion of what is right and wrong. If you rely just on a book, which is deeply flawed from the outset, you rarely can get there.

    You don’t understand skeptics too well; they are constantly evaluating paradigms, including their own!

  • soter phile

    I did not say the skeptic failed to be evaluating paradigms.
    I said the skeptic refuses to evaluate himself.

    To be precise – and directly at your prior point –
    the skeptic’s hypocrisy is his ironic (and often extreme) confidence in his own logic.

    Once one realizes the humbling limits of self, dismissing the most read, most influential book in history in favor of personal preferences & cultural biases (which come & go incessantly) seems a much more flawed premise.

    And that’s without even engaging what Kierkegaard called “the infinite qualitative difference between humanity and God” – something a skeptic begins by ignoring.

  • Netizen_James

    See https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619

    The comment in Romans has to do with the known sexual atrocities of Emperor Gaius Caligula who was well known to Saul/Paul, and who in fact received ‘in his person’ the punishment for this incest and abuse of power by getting stabbed by the Praetorian guards who assassinated him.

    See https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619 for a description of the correct interpretations for the other ‘clobber passages’. The bottom line is that there is NO PLACE IN SCRIPTURE where a a loving monogamous consensual and mutually beneficial sexual relationship between two persons of the same gender is condemned as a sin.

  • Netizen_James

    What fallacious bullshit. I never once made the assertion that Jesus was a homosexual. Take your strawman out and burn it.

  • Netizen_James

    I did NOT say ‘no judging’. Take your strawman fallacies and burn them.
    YOU are the one foolishly conflating ‘sin’ and ‘law’. They are entirely different things.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure you didn’t but your words contradict you.

  • Kendall Fields

    No you are the one is ignoring what righteousness and you have been trying to justify what is a sin.

  • Ken

    This exchange (or one side of it) kinda proves the validity of

    A fool who picks up a bible now becomes a religious fool now carrying a book. 🙂

  • Patrick O’Malley

    Then God is fallible, since all God had to do was write a simple book.

    Makes it hard to believe in that God, since that God created a massive universe and couldn’t create a small, simple book.

    Oh, and the Noah nonsense.

  • Cynthia Brown Christ

    BTW, I commend you on your patience in attempting to communicate with a bible idolater! I could not have help up this long.

  • JenellYB

    Do some searching on terms like the theological origins of humanism, theological humanism, humanist theology.
    And do some soul-searching in the effort to demonize ideas you don’t agree with.

  • JenellYB

    The relevant question here may be whether “worshiping The Bible” is equal to “worshiping God?”

    There is only one reason Bibliolators defend the divinity, infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible is if it, the Bible. is discredited, or even allowed as questionable in any way, their God will fall from divine status.

  • JenellYB

    This is not to judge the person, but to pass judgement on an action deemed unacceptable and illegal under a formal code of laws and justice.

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh I “demonize” a philosophy that has strayed further and further from the truth.

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh I don’t worship the Bible but it is the word of God. You want to discount it then you are denying God and who he is.

  • Kendall Fields

    That is judging a person so no excuse.