Survey Says: Not a Chance

Survey Says: Not a Chance March 17, 2015

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ProgressiveChristianity.org shared data from a survey of 500 progressive Christians. I was particularly struck by how the most negative answer to the particular questions above were worded. “Is the Bible inerrant?” – “Not a chance.”

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  • R Vogel

    It’s a strange question, yeah? Inerrant with regard to what?

    • Isn’t it strange as well to say that a work is, for instance, theologically inerrant but scientifically fallible?

      • R Vogel

        yeah, now that you mention it…. 🙂

      • An oxymoron, inerrant means without error, fallible is being erroneous. Either inerrant or fallible not both.
        Is there something in the Bible you suspect to be erroneous?

        • There are certainly things in the Bible which are erroneous. The view that there is a dome over the Earth, holding up waters above. The view that the heart is the locus of human cognition. The contradictory geographical movements, dates, and genealogies between the infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke. This is not, in our time, a matter of “suspecting.”

          • Your wrong, its ok to be wrong, many wonderful people have been wrong before. Just because you don’t understand what the Bible is saying, does not mean it is in error. You might want to get your plank checked out before you look for slivers in the Bible.

          • No, James is right. He’s actually a biblical scholar, familiar with the text in its original languages. And he could keep going:

            anachronistic place names in Joshua and Judges; OT large-scope narratives, such the unified kingdom and the exodus, for which there is conflicting archeological evidence; contradictory tales of Judas’s death; contraditory empty tomb narratives; verse and story interpolations (such as the tale of the woman caught in adultery) which do not appear in the earliest available texts; conflicts between the histories in Kings and Chronicles …

            there is much more …

          • Jon Sellers

            There are no original copies of biblical texts. There are over 31,000 passages in the Bible without error. You wrote 4 passages. 0 Truths.

          • Are you trying to suggest that, since we do not have the originals, we should just presume that they were different from the ones we have, in whatever way necessary in order to have the originals be inerrant? That is incredibly dishonest, and disrespectful to the Bible. If you do not like the Bible we have, by all means find some other book that will meet your expectations if you are able to. But please do not twist the Bible into what you think it ought to be.

          • Jon Sellers

            Your prefrence for Malicious Interpretation and Translation does not show the Bible to be erroneous. You Professing to be a Biblical Scholar then refuting the statements of the Bible is like being an astronaught preaching flat earth. Your writings are reminiscent 15th century English Dogma.

          • I don’t have preference for “malicious interpretation and translation.” I have a preference for accurate translation and interpretation based on our best linguistic, cultural, historical, and other data. The analogies you make are the opposite of the case. To pretend the Bible is inerrant when it is not is a quite precise equivalent to pretending that we have not found evidence that the Earth is not flat.

            I do, however, have a preference for correct use of capitalization…

          • Like a Cancer researcher desperate to disprove cancer. Like a person who lost their eye sight from staring to long into the sun, then… preaches about the non existence of said sun. You are wrong. Funny, and wrong. Like Uncle Paul, or Hawkins, but more like Dawkins. Your a joker at best, more likely a snake.

          • I haven’t read to much of your regurgitations. You are not pleasant, but I have read enough of your filth to see you use the four corners analogy to “prove” the author of Job was a flat earther. How is it possible for Job’s author to be a flat earther when the very same person was using the word, Chug to describe the tool used to form the earth. Chug is a Carpenters tool for forming perfect circles. Sometime in the Second Millennium BC a Jewish Poet Carpenter with Prophetic Powers was teaching round earth whilst simultaneously crafting the first story of the Bible ever told. Who do you think you are?

          • I’m merely someone who knows that circles are flat. Of course, by the New Testament era we have the geocentric model, with multiple heavens around the Earth, but even then, the authors don’t have knowledge of gravity, and so it could safely be assumed that there are no antipodes hanging from the underside of the Earth. The statement in the temptation narrative that all the kingdoms of the Earth can be seen from a high mountain can fit either a flat Earth or a geocentric model inhabited only on top.

          • Of course because Auto Cad didn’t exist in Uz. What is the word for sphere in Ancient Hebrew? Uncle Paul was genuine, you are a snake, a lawyer of the most dogmatic kind. Your intentions are clear. You are trying to make the Bible untrue. Ironic it speaks Volumes of Truth about You.

          • I am not trying to make it untrue. I resisted these conclusions for many years. Eventually I decided that if I continued to try to force my doctrine about the Bible onto the Bible, even when it did not fit the Bible, then it was my dogma and not the Bible itself that I was treating as my ultimate authority. And that seems a problematic strategy.

            That you offer no counter-evidence and resort to insults speaks volumes about you, especially when your vitriol is aimed at a Christian who is seeking to be honest about the Bible out of respect for the Bible.

          • In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            Is the Word erroneous?

          • You think the Logos is the Bible?!

          • You are tricky and cleaver but you don’t answer the question.
            The Bible can be Accurately called The Word, or The Word of God. Or in Greek you could say Logos yes.
            Do you think the Word is erroneous?
            I am Erroneous, I assure you, the Bible is Not.

          • Just asserting that the Bible can accurately be called the Word, and then equating it with the Word that the Gospel of John became flesh as Jesus, is not making an argument. You are turning the human authors of the Bible into popes, and are idolatrously transferring attributes of God alone to the Bible.

          • You are not Answering the Question on Purpose. You Believe in an Erroneous Word. Good luck with that.

          • Andrew Dowling

            “Your writings are reminiscent 15th century English Dogma”

            LOL. Please enlighten me about what writers you’re referring to . . .

          • Yessir well I haven’t studied Dogmatic preachers very well I’d bet James here could school you though. I do know enough to be talking about the Dogma that permitted the King to Kill his Wife like five times and Partake. Ministers then like professors today consumed with Godlessness and ExoNilho Dogma undoubtable the influence the Pythags, it stinks of their phil malosophy.

          • It’s interesting how you keep making unsubstantiated assertions, with no ability to explain the numerous contradictions in the bible.

          • I have seen mis/mal interpretation also mis/mal translation of the Bible. Never the Bible actually contradicting itself. Perhaps you’ve never heard the story of the Bible told?

          • On the contrary, Jon, I’ve read the Bible multiple times. You, on the other hand, don’t seem to be very familiar with the text. You can’t seem to respond to the specific examples of errors and contradictions (tip of the iceberg) that James and I have pointed out. You seem only able to generalize about your biblical preconceptions.

          • As for the anachronistic place names, I trust the authors of the Bible where vastly more knowledgeable of the names and places of which they where a part. You are looking back three thousand years and saying they used the wrong names. “conflicting archeological evidence” is a matter of interpretation, you choose to see what you are wanting to see in the evidence. interpolation you must be kidding. The one Bible, was written over a 1500 year time period by dozens of men, of different language and culture. Who used different schools of chronology and record keeping also style and method. And they managed to compose a true work. Interpolate that. What other work of ancient literature stands remotely close? I doubt you have read the Bible even once, certainly not with true intent beyond a hunt for errors. Name a Verse in the Bible that is not Miraculous. Every passage, prepared by The God for All Time.

          • Well if you choose to ignore archeology that’s your problem.

            But I don’t think you understand the word interpolation. Here are two clear examples: the earliest discovered manuscripts of the gospel of Mark do not include Mark 16:9-20. Those verses were clearly added later by other writers. In the same way the earliest discovered manuscripts of the gospel of John do not include John 7:53-8:11 (the story of the woman caught in adultery). In fact, these verses do not appear in manuscripts until centuries later. They were clearly added by later writers.

            You also haven’t read your bible clearly enough to see how often the gospel accounts conflict with each other.

          • Interpolation is study by the numbers.
            I see the evidence of Archeology as pointing to the truth of the Bible.
            I do see the Mainstream choosing an interpretation of the archeological, biological, geological evidences that rejects God. Choosing to adhere to malicious interpretation is not new. You are suffering from DOGMA. You are a Priest, A Professor, A Teacher, I am a carpenter. You spend your time trying to convince impressionable youngsters that God isn’t real and His Word is untrue.
            Remember the Hittites until recently they where evidence the Bible was untrue. Now They Prove historians who don’t believe the Bible are Fools.

          • The Hittites?! We’ve had archeological evidence of the Hittites for nearly a hundred and fifty years! It was only a handful of early 19th century historians who proposed the Bible was wrong about the Hittites. You are really grasping at straws here, aren’t you?

          • A hundred and fifty years isn’t that much time. Darwin wrote his works under the impression the Bible was erroneous in regards to the Hittites.

          • Er … what do the Hittites have to do with the Origin of Species?

          • I have much experience with story telling, just because various authors tell a story from different perspectives and recollections does not mean it is in error. I may recollect an event differently than My wife though we could both tell the same story differently and truthfully. In fact we can both bring new different details that the other might not have known. And Both Been Right and True. Also. Being Divinely inspired means. The True Author of Job and Genesis is the True Author of Jude and Revelation. so.. If the Divine Author wants to add to His Story hundreds of years later. So what? It can still be true. Even Factual. It is, in Fact.

          • How silly. Different “perspectives” doesn’t even begin to explain the conflicting New Testament stories. Still you are generalizing. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you are not familiar enough with the Bible to have seen these conflicts, much less attempt to explain them with any degree of clarity.

          • God taking thousands of years to complete His book, using various men from various backgrounds and upbringings, verifies its Theistic nature. Proof in the Pudding. You seem to forget all the Prophecy, much of the story of the bible was told from a looking forward prospective, now many of the events are in the past then they were often looking into the Future and telling the truth. For Example. How did John the Revealer Know that Instant World Wide Communication would Exist? Rev 1:7

          • There are no examples of the bible foretelling the future.

            Revelations 1:7?
            Look! He is coming with the clouds;
            every eye will see him,
            even those who pierced him;
            and on his account all the tribes of the earth will wail.

            Oh dear, are you trying to sell this as a “prophecy” of the internet or cable TV? I think someone forgot to tell you: Harold Camping is dead, and his Judgement Day predictions never quite panned out.

          • That text in Revelation (no “s” at the end) suggests that those who executed Jesus would see him return. It also reflects the view that either the Earth is flat or all its kingdoms are on the top of it, just like the story of the mountain of temptation does.

            It is interesting that people can take an example of the Bible reflecting the incorrect assumptions of its time, and try to turn it into a prediction of something else.

            It is like when people say that Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem cannot be about what happened in AD 70, since there are still stones one on top of another from the Herodian-era temple.

          • Thanks for correcting my “s”! 🙂

          • James you sound like Professor Daniel Dennett you malinterpreting to show flat earth then saying all Christians are guilty of your sin.
            And as to Jesus Words. I Believe His Prophecies.

          • OK, I am going to conclude that you are a troll, perhaps an atheist trying to make Christians look bad. The random capitalizations seem designed to make you look like you are an ignorant fool, but I am guessing that may be an act. But that won’t get you banned, whereas refusing to discuss what people have actually said, while pretending that it is others who have done that to you, will.

          • R Vogel

            Maybe the greatest Poe I have seen since Daniel over at Slacktivist. My favorite line so far:

            ‘I am a Scientists, Theologian and a Philosopher of sorts, but mostly I build fences.’

            I think I may make a poster of this and hang it on my wall, lol!

          • You have given you entire life to something you don’t believe. What a Shame.

          • Jim

            I think that it’s cool that you believe in anything that you have been spoon fed by your own religious organization, even when tons of historical and scientific evidence points to the contrary. Now that takes some effort and tenacity; standing up against those evil spirits of knowledge and logic. I’m sure your god will reward you some day for being close-minded and also for being mean-spirited.

          • Jim, your wrong to. I don’t belong to any Religious Organization except perhaps The Church. All of the Historical and Scientific Evidence I have ever seen points towards Jesus. I am a Scientists, Theologian and a Philosopher of sorts, but mostly I build fences. These guys on here James, and Beau are paid Ministers who reject God. I’m just pointing out the Irony.

          • Cecil Bagpuss

            Jon, you need to be building bridges rather than fences.

          • Thank You.

          • Jim, dear friend. We have much in common. When a Professor of the New Testament is Preaching about the Bible being Erroneous… Typical. The most accurate piece of literature the Earth has ever seen. Well described as The Word. And what, some guys said they know better? How many doubters have there been? Surely Jimmy and Beau are not the first. Since Pythagoras weak, small, dumb men have been taking what they like from the Bible and rejecting the rest. Professors of the Highest Class. Ignorant, Liars. Like the fatso from Oz. Smoke and Mirrors, Degrees. Big Deal. LIARS, Fat Liars.

          • Gee, Jon, it’s not enough that you call people you don’t know “liars”. You have to call them “fat”, too? I don’t know who you’re emulating, but it certainly isn’t Jesus.

          • Indeed, lets ponder Emulation for a moment.
            I am a carpenter who likes to call Pharisees, Snakes.
            Who are you emulating?

          • I ignored the insults when they were focused on me. But I will not allow you to insult regular commenters here. This isn’t that sort of blog.

          • Right … because Jesus went about calling the Pharisees “fatso”s. Noone is fooled by you Jon.

          • Jim

            I see more clearly where you are coming from now, and if Jimmy and Beau are “Fat Liars”, then I should be labeled a “Big Fat Hell-bound Liar”. Especially since I see the Bible as a collection of writings, written by human authors in antiquity. The collection contains some history, some myth, some allegory, some disappointments and some helpful thoughts, as can be expected from any works from antiquity.

            I speculate that if God wanted to send a document, it might be quite short (possibly just a single pager) and directly to the point. But hey, that’s what makes me a “Big Fat Hell-bound Beer-drinking Liar”.

          • More than once The Word breaks it down to “single pager” even shorter Micah 6:8 “All that is required of man; Live Justly, Love Mercy and Walk Humbly With The Lord”

          • Andrew Dowling

            Umm . . .you know Pythagoras lived centuries before the Bible was ever compiled right?

            Your nonsensical ranting begins slightly amusing but ultimately becomes just sad.

          • Yeah well the debate of the date of Job the man is moot but not un guessable.
            The date of Jobs authorship is also speculative but surely nine hundred years before the crucifixion of that Good Man from Nazareth, at least 300 years before Mr.P was born.
            Pythyboy was a lover of stories, secrets, and taught much that parallels the patriarchs.
            Like These Snaky Snakes, using some of it, its undeniable, but they drop the parts they don’t like.
            Somehow Pythagoras is the guy who discovered the right triangle solution after he saw the Pyramids of Egypt, also taught round earth after… Job. But I suspect these mods and the teachers you know… are all adherents to a type of Greek society… not a coincidence. Trained in the University’s, Fraternity’s and Godless Clubs to be Pythagoreans.
            If it walks like a Pythag.

          • What an odd thing to say. You have no idea what I have “given my entire life to”.

          • I can read, you tell well. A life spent looking into the Bible. Looking for reason to doubt. You’ve been trying to prove that your parents or someone you know was wrong. Well You are Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. A life wasted. You may yet make it to heaven, but how many years have you spent convincing children that the maker isn’t?

          • Ah … the answer is no on pretty much all counts. Apparently, you don’t read people as well as you think you do.

          • Jim

            “There are no examples of the bible foretelling the future”

            What?

            Well, you’ll just have to take a closer look at your bible and then tell me if the locusts in Rev 9.3,10 aren’t helicopters (including schematics and all). If those references aren’t as clear as day to you, I’m gonna have to buy you a pair of fundie glasses. 🙂

          • I used to wear fundie glasses, as a younger man. I find that I trip over myself far less often, now that I’ve removed them.

          • stewart

            I’ve long thought that a claim of Biblical inerrancy is pretty much irrelevant when we don’t know what the Bible means (I’m not going to concede anyone’s interpretational inerrancy), but your claim that we don’t know what the Bible says (what the literal words are) either drives a stake through the heart of any practical meaning to a claim of Biblical inerrancy.

      • R Vogel

        There is an interesting article at The Atlantic you might enjoy, ‘The Problem with History Classes’ that strikes me a oddly apropos.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/03/the-problem-with-history-classes/387823/

  • Andrew Dowling

    Poll options, especially when it comes to religion, are the worst.

  • stewart

    I was surprised to find that there are progressive Christians affiliated to the Constitution Party. I was mildly surprised to find that there are progressive Christians that think that the Bible is definitely inerrant, but there is the potential of a correctly interpreted qualification.