Dustin Smith on the Evans-Carrier Debate

Dustin Smith on the Evans-Carrier Debate April 14, 2016

Dustin Smith has shared his account of the debate that took place yesterday between Craig Evans and Richard Carrier. Click through to read it.

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  • Phil Ledgerwood

    I’m interested to know which “dying and rising” gods Carrier used in his argument. I know the very existence of this category has been heavily contested in recent scholarship. Does he mention this as argumentation in his book on the historical Jesus? I’ve been trying to avoid buying it, but I’d be interested in seeing where he goes with that argument and how it holds up to modern comparative religion scholarship.

    And if the writer’s student had grown up in Appalachia, he would know the historical Jesus was exactly six feet tall, which is why no other living man has ever been exactly six feet tall. This is a good five inches taller than Richard Carrier.

    • I know the very existence of this category has been heavily contested in recent scholarship. Does he mention this as argumentation in his book on the historical Jesus?

      It’s discussed as an element of the background knowledge, only, to the extent of half a dozen pages including footnotes & citations. I wouldn’t say he “goes anywhere” with it specifically.

  • John MacDonald

    Smith said “if Jesus used to be an archangel and, one day, decided to become a human.” I wasn’t aware mythicists thought Jesus ever became human?

    • Mythicists sometimes find it hard to avoid interpreting texts in more straightforward ways. I have noticed Robert Price doing that on more than one occasion.

    • Speusippus

      Carrier’s view, anyway, is that Jesus was said to have taken on, I forget if it’s called “flesh” or not, but a spiritual body appropriate to the low heaven Jesus’s death was supposed to have taken place in. In quick informal modern day speech it’s fair to call this, in passing, “an archangel becoming human.”

      • arcseconds

        Surely it’s not fair, but totally misleading.

        Humans are understood by everyone to have material bodies and exist on earth. An archangel from a higher heaven (?) taking on a spiritual body and emigrating to a lower heaven hasn’t become human.

        • Speusippus

          “Humans are understood by everyone to have material bodies and exist on earth” is a false sentence. Witness Mormonism as just one contemporary example.

          • Why Mormonism?

          • Speusippus

            I am not sure what you’re asking. Mormonism is a religion which posits the existence of human beings who have material bodies and do not exist on earth, and the existence of human beings who do _not_ have material bodies and do not exist on Earth. (Christ before incarnation, and the Holy Ghost, and each of us prior to birth, for examples of the latter. Every angel for examples of the former.)