‘Jesus chicken’ company denies homophobia but funds anti-gay groups

‘Jesus chicken’ company denies homophobia but funds anti-gay groups November 29, 2018

Rider University in New Jersey has joined several other US educational bodies in a bid to exclude Chick-fil-A from its campus, citing the company’s opposition to same-sex marriage and its generous donations to homophobic organisations.

Rider cited the “company’s record widely perceived to be in opposition to the LGBTQ community,” and claimed that while excluding the option of Chick-Fil-A could be seen as a “form of exclusion”, administrators believes it’s acting “faithful to our values of inclusion.”

Rider Assistant Vice President of Student Affairs Jan Friedman-Krupnick said in a statement to Campus Reform.

It is important to me and to the University that all voices are heard. While Chick-fil-A is among other restaurants preferenced by Rider students, there are members of the community (faculty, staff, and students) who strongly opposed the option as well […] we carefully weigh benefits, risks and voices representative of all of our campus constituents.

Chick-fil-A’s CEO Dan Cathy via YouTube

Chick-fil-A is famously operated on the Christian principles of its national leadership, including closing on Sundays, listing “to glorify God” as part of its corporate purpose, and its active charitable arm. For years, liberals have boycotted the chain due to CEO Dan Cathy’s stated opposition to same-sex “marriage” and the company’s past donations to social conservative groups such as Family Research Council and Focus on the Family.

On Tuesday this week, Chick-fil-A issued a statement to the AP addressing the controversy.

Rider University’s survey was recently brought to our attention, and while we respect the University’s decision, this news story represents a good opportunity to clarify misperceptions about our brand. Chick-fil-A is a restaurant company focused on food, service and hospitality, and our restaurants and licensed locations on college campuses welcome everyone. We have no policy of discrimination against any group, and we do not have a political or social agenda.

Really?

In June this year Think Progress reported that company continues to support “rabidly anti-LGBTQ organizations”.

This despite it CEO Dan Cathy, above, saying four years ago that the company would stick to selling chicken and would be staying out of the fray when it comes to equality.

I think that’s a political debate that’s going to rage on. And the wiser thing for us to do is to stay focused on customer service.

A protester pictured outside a Chick Fil A outlet in 2012. Image via YouTube.

Yet in 2016, the Chick-fil-A Foundation gave about $1.8 million to three non-profits known for discriminatory activities: the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Paul Anderson Youth Home, and Salvation Army. This is actually a significant increase compared to its 2015 totals to the same groups.

More than $1,500,000 of that went to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and its local affiliates. The group seeks to use athletes and coaches to spread Christian teachings and impart an anti-LGBTQ message. The group’s Campus Playbook teaches young leaders that “God’s design for sexual intimacy is to be expressed only within
 the context of marriage, that:

God created man and woman to complement and complete each other. God instituted marriage between one man and one woman as the foundation of the family and the basic structure of human
 society.

More than $130,000 went to the Paul Anderson Youth Home, a Georgia-based “Christian residential home for troubled youth”. They teach boys the dangerous myth that “sexual, physical, and mental abuse of children, mostly in the alleged ‘safety’ of their own homes has produced all kinds of evil throughout the culture to include the explosion of homosexuality in the last century,” that “homosexual behavior and lifestyle” are lawlessness, and that same-sex marriage is:

Rage against Jesus Christ and His values.

More than $146,000 went to the Salvation Army. The religious organization has a lengthy record of opposition to same-sex marriage equality, anti-LGBTQ housing discrimination, and promoting exemptions from non-discrimination ordinances.

Rider student Julia Pickett, president of the campus Young Americans for Liberty chapter, told Campus Reform she recognizes Rider’s right as a private institution to exclude Chick-Fil-A but considers the decision unfair.

They sell chicken, so as far as I am concerned that should be the focus. I think that the administration of Rider felt that having Chick-Fil-A on campus would cause unwanted controversy and felt that the easiest fix was to find another restaurant. I wish they would be honest about it though instead of trying to cover it as a deep offense to the school.

Other institutions that have attempted to exclude Chick-Fil-A include Johns Hopkins University, Duquesne University, University of Nebraska Kearney, and the DICK’S Sporting Goods Pittsburgh Marathon. New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey are among the prominent figures who have condemned the company.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • TinnyWhistler

    I’m glad someone bothered to double check that they’d actually stopped this crap. Guess I’m back to ordering the cheapest thing possible on family road trips.

  • Michael Neville

    Cathy, if you don’t want people to think you’re a bigot then there’s an easy fix. Stop supporting bigots and your reputation will improve. Continue supporting bigots and you’ll be considered a bigot. This is not rocket surgery.

  • Jim Jones

    If you don’t want your face eaten by a leopard . . .

  • TheBookOfDavid

    Aside from the LGBT intolerance issue, if “glorifying God” is part of their mission statement, then they are a de facto ministry. I’m not going to drop a dollar in the collection plate just because Cathy reintroduced ritual animal sacrifice.

  • Albionic American

    I don’t see what atheism as such has to say about the problems of people with broken sexuality. The Biblical Hebrews might have had good empirical reasons for doing away with men who lie with men just like they had defensible reasons for avoiding contact with lepers and not eating pork.

  • NATHAN AMAL

    Sorry, bigots but we are not going to allow your filth to pollute young minds anymore. Shove that nasty chicken up your fake god’s bum!!

  • NATHAN AMAL

    or go somewhere else and show your kids some integrity.

  • NATHAN AMAL

    shut your mouth you backward, bigoted slob-no one cares about your fake god crapp anymore

  • Pennybird

    So the goal is to glorify god, but only a select number of his people?

  • Milo C

    That is an interesting perspective and while I don’t agree, it is clear that any possible empirical reasons a small middle eastern tribe had are no longer valid in the 21st century.

  • TinnyWhistler

    I carpool with my parents for the yearly family gathering and have little to no say in restaurants on the way down, but thanks.

    I suppose I could always just eat rest stop vending machine food instead and keep the integrity of my nonexistant children pure.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    Chick-fil-A is a restaurant company focused on food, service and hospitality, scratch out hospitality for hostility. an obvious typo.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    The cure for leprosy according to the bible, is bird’s blood. Tell me how that works for you, genius. Come to think of it, taking the bible too seriously is the most leadint cause of being a jerk ive seen yet.

  • David Eriksen

    Like this?
    Chick-fil-A is a restaurant company focused on food, service and hospitality hostility.

  • Gerry Wright

    Fast.

  • Gerry Wright

    Cute!

  • Gerry Wright

    That’s purely anti-semetic, you should be ashamed

  • Gerry Wright

    Say it in as pleasanter way -you sound like a bully.

  • Kendall Fields

    And Chick fil a continues to beat a lot of other competitors when it comes to food and costumer satisfaction. Face it you guys can’t handle the truth that homosexuality is wrong and in your failed attempts to bring the company down you have only increased it..

  • P. McCoy

    You can’t spell either; bigotry is wed to superstition and ignorance.

  • Kendall Fields

    What bigotry? You mean standing up for what is right and not supporting sin?

  • P. McCoy

    You’re a Trump Cultist; don’t lecture ME about “Sin” . I also reject Iron Age bigotry. I live in the 21st century. This isn’t Russia or the country Georgia where you can beat up LGBT people on a whim but smile in the face of your “dear leader” that brags about wanting to have SEX with his daughter!

    Go play that pious crap elsewhere .

  • P. McCoy

    They were ignorant about diseases and prevention. Nobody got AIDS in the Iron Age; you don’t know that AIDS was/is a MAN made virus created in the labs at Fort Dietrich!

  • Kendall Fields

    Why are you accusing me of following Trump? I never voted for the guy and I don’t like him. But I shouldn’t be surprised at this pint. Homosexuality is wrong just like all other sins and regardless of person’s sins they should not be assaulted.

  • P. McCoy

    You need to go after heterosexual sex offenders and leave Gays alone. America made and makes being Black a sin by actions we see in Trumpworld.

  • Kendall Fields

    And sex offenders are dealt with. Are you going to apply the same thing about “leave people alone” to murderers, liars, adulterers, etc? Blacks have always been miatreated all over America back then and now.

  • Raging Bee

    Chick Fil A beats its competitors therefore they’re right about gayness? Sorry, but you’re giving non-sequiturs a bad name.

  • Raging Bee

    Why should anyone care what your religion says about gays and gayness? Did the people who wrote that Bible of yours even know where the Sun went at night?

  • zenlike

    Never mind Kendall, they are both a pathological liar who literally believes in the flood, and also believes literally killing almost every person in the world, including kids and babies, is a good thing. Also, conducting a genocide is good. They are literally the last person to who we should listen to when it comes to good and bad, seeing how they support pure evil.

  • P. McCoy

    I don’t obsess over the ‘sins’ of others. All this exchange can do is degenerate into name calling; I am not interested in that. Hope you can look into the plank in your own eye instead of hurling invectives at the splinter in others’.

    But you need to comprehend that no one is interested in the type of “religion” that you espouse ; ultimately people will be judged and you don’t know what that judgment IS- the Bible is difficult to understand and open to inaccurate speculations and false confusion based on twisting Iron Age belief systems into a modern age.

    You need to learn how to spell lest you present yourself as functionally illiterate as well as a religious fanatic but cultists generally don’t care about those things.

  • P. McCoy

    You ACT like one- that is worse and you hide like the coward that you are behind “freedom of religion” something that has been abused and needs to be curtailed because your ilk has proven by their actions to be Enemies of the State- you want to overthrow the current U.S.government and establish a White Supremacist Christofascist Technocratic Theocracy!

  • The problem with some prejudice people is they think the stories in the Bible about r ape, pagan worship and male prostitution is equivalent to being gay. The word homosexual was never in the original Greek Bible either. We now know from modern science that being gay is a normal and natural form of human sexuality.

  • The Leviticus scripture you’re quoting was for Israel priests and doesn’t apply to Christians. Plus if Christians could have followed the OT to become righteous, there wouldn’t have been a need for Christ.

  • Kendall Fields

    No I am saying that this guy who wrote is upset that Chick-fil-a was not run out of business when the owner stated his honest belief. Sorry but you need to try harder.

  • Kendall Fields

    Why should anyone care about your Atheist views? The ancients may not have known where the sun goes but they knew that the sun and moon were important to their everyday life. And the Israelites thanked God for giving us night and day.

  • Kendall Fields

    I take care of my problems but if someone is doing wrong and trying to pass it off as right then I will say something. No the Bible is clear on what it means and is easy to understand but you guys don’t try to understand it. And so what if a lot of the Bible was written in the Iron Age? I suggest you worry more about your soul than about my spelling.

  • Raging Bee

    So what? Your religious opinions do not override anyone else’s rights, nor are they more important than the verifiable facts about real people.

  • Kendall Fields

    What matters is people follow what is right not what they want. And rights? So you consider incest, bestiality, and adultery to be rights as well?

  • Raging Bee

    First you have to explain WHY something is wrong, before you condemn it. And no, “The Bible sez so!” is not an explanation.

  • Kendall Fields

    Because I heard and seen many people die because of homosexuality. Not only that it goes against the order of life.

  • Kendall Fields

    And I take it that you are a homosexual.

  • Raging Bee

    Dead wrong on both counts.

  • Raging Bee

    Aaaaand, wrong about that too.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I dead wrong? Let me guess you are going to try and say people are born as homosexuals or try to justify homosexuality by using animals.

  • Kendall Fields

    So why are you trying to justify it. If you think it is okay, then why aren’t you doing it.

  • You are correct, multiple studies have shown that there is a biological basis for sexual orientation.

  • Barry Duke

    Well, I have seen many people die of heterosexuality. And homosexuality does not go “against the order of life” any more than left-handedness or being born a red head does. You need to learn that there’s a mighty big difference between unnatural and unusual.

  • Kendall Fields

    You can be born left handed or have red hair. But you can’t be born a homosexual. Homosexuality does goes against life. Are you going to justify bestiality as well?

  • Raging Bee

    Um…because I don’t want to. Why is that relevant?

  • Kendall Fields

    You seem awfully convinced that it is right. Let me guess you are one of those who say the “love is love” line, right?

  • Barry Duke

    Soooo … homosexuality is a choice you reckon. Then that argument must apply equally to heterosexuality. If you are the latter, please tell me just at what point you chose to be “straight”.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yep it does.You want me to go in depth about it?

  • Barry Duke

    Read the following link then feel free to come back to me. But don’t quote the bloody bible which knows bugger all about biology (Leviticus says insects have four legs). https://tinyurl.com/hm9eynd. And you’ve still to answer my question: when precisely did you choose your own sexuality?

  • Kendall Fields

    And that link is supposed to tell me what? And I asked do you want me to go into detail?

  • Bubblecar

    “problems of people with broken sexuality”

    You mean homophobes? Atheists tend to regard homophobes with pity, but the problems of homophobes shouldn’t become a problem for gay people or anyone else.

    Homophobes need to consult psychiatric help, and keep their bigotry – and their superstitions – to themselves.

  • Bubblecar

    Chick-fil-A don’t serve food – they serve typical American fat, salt and sugar while peddling moronic Middle Eastern religion.

    This is what you Americans hate having to face about your “faith” – it is ancient Middle Eastern superstition and you’re addicted to it.

    If you hate the Western world so much, why not get back on your camels and return to your “Bible Lands”? Bethlehem and Nazareth await you, the modern world doesn’t need you.

  • Kendall Fields

    The world needs Jesus, not me. Also they use peanut oil at Chick-fil-a not fat. And how is Christianity superstition? Is it because you don’t want to accept Jesus and you hate him? The Western world needs to turn away from its sins before it falls like many empires throughout history.

  • Bubblecar

    Your Jesus – your camel-riding Aramaic of Judea – is your Middle Eastern hero and you’re welcome to him. But why seek to impose this tribal Abrahamic rubbish on the West? We don’t want you and your Islam/Christianity (it’s all the same cult), so kindly bog off back to the desert and take your anti-Western homophobia with you.

  • Kendall Fields

    Jesus is the Savior of the world. And you call it tribal and rubbish because you don’t want to accept it. You don’t want Jesus but you need him. Besides continuing on the road of sin will just drag you and others down into a pit of your own creation. The Western world, the Middle East, East Asia, etc. all need Jesus. Also Islam and Christianity are not the same thing unless you want me to say Atheism and Agnosticism are the same.

  • Kendall Fields

    Also quote an actual scientist journal not “The Guardian”.

  • Bubblecar

    You’re babbling like the occult priestess you really are. This is the 21st century, sane people no longer subscribe to supernatural mumbo-jumbo, loaves and fishes, holy ghosts, water into wine with an ancient tribal spell.

    Your superstitious chanting of “sin, sin!” is a pathetic disguise for your anti-social prejudices and primitive sexual anxieties, which you’ve suppressed by embracing an alien cult from the Bronze Age. I can but repeat, get back on your magic carpet and buzz off back to the bazaar.

  • Barry Duke

    Still not answering the question about the choice of your own sexuality, Kendall? From that I gather you have no answer. Oh, and by the way, a GENUINE deviation from the natural is religion. Whereas homosexuality occurs naturally in numerous animal species (1,500 according to the link provided below), only deviant humans allow themselves to be hoodwinked by religion. You provide an excellent example of aberrant thinking by asserting that “Jesus is the saviour of the world.” If he were so he should be put on half pay for doing a dismal job. (https://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality.aspx).

  • Kendall Fields

    That would be hard to do since I am guy so I couldn’t be a priestess. But a priest yes. And look at what you are doing promoting what is wrong and trying to say that believing in God is primitive. It may be the 21st century but the truth does not change. Jesus died for mankind and people need to turn away from sin. Look at you with your hatred of God and how you disguise it as “protecting rights”. We all have faults but it takes an honest and good man to point out the truth. Are you going to say that incest and bestiality are okay because the Bible deems them just as wrong as homosexuality? And I say to you that you need to find Jesus before your time is up.

  • Kendall Fields

    No I have an answer but I ask you: Do you want me to go in depth? And here we go again with someone using animals to say homosexuality is okay. I take it you find cannibalism okay as well for that is found in animals as well. It shows you are doing an abysmal job at trying to justify homosexuality. You need to go find Jesus.

  • Kendall Fields

    And no deviating from nature includes many things like homosexuality, bestiality, incest, murder, and stealing. We all do what is wrong but you choose how you live your life. That is why we need Jesus so we can be redeemed and move on the path of righteousness.

  • Bubblecar

    Look at you and your love for Allah, Horus, Yahew and Cthulhu, and your brooding hatred for mainstream Western values. I actually admire your ability to keep a straight face while you kiss the feet of your ancient donkey-riding charlatan who wiped his arse on the back of his tunic. You people are laughable but fair enough, you’re also clearly sick. Why not consult a psychiatrist before you seriously hurt yourself and/or others around you?

  • Kendall Fields

    I hold love for God(Yahweh and Allah are just names used in Hebrew and Arabic) but I don’t brood over homosexuality nor any other sin in the world. Yep Jesus is the lord and Savior of the whole world. Your efforts to try and put him down are laughable and sad. We are all sick with sin but Jesus is the only cure for it.

  • persephone

    There’s nothing you can use to support your argument. It’s completely baseless, not backed by scientific studies in any way.

    You have chosen to let someone else make decisions for you. That you believe being a sheep to a religion is a good thing, that is your choice.

    However, your attempts to impose your beliefs, and they are beliefs, not universal truths or facts, are wrong. You can continue to repeat your claims, but all you’ve done is displayed your lack of knowledge and understanding.

    At this point, you should just move along, and run back to the echo chamber you normally dwell in, and tell all the believers that how you were soul-winning today among the heathen. I’m sure you’ll score major gold stars from them. It’ll be a tale you can then repeat at church tomorrow, and Sunday dinner.

    Please, though, if you go out to dinner after church, tip the waitstaff. 1 Tim. 5:18.

  • Kendall Fields

    No scientific studies show that people aren’t born homosexuals. Even if they were that doesn’t excuse their actions. God’s truth is the truth of the world not matter how much you whine about it. Also I make my own decisions can’t say the same about you guys. And what have you guys shown? Nothing but your own egos and bad reasons that regress your morality. I don’t seek approval from my church members for telling the truth unlike you Atheists who like to brag on the Internet about how you hate God. Oh and you don’t have to worry about me tipping the staff if they provide good service. Also for someone who is trying to talk down about believers you guys are always trying to read verses out of the Bible. How sad. You need Jesus just like me and everyone else in the world.

  • Bubblecar

    You may well be sick with sin, but you’re also sick with religious mania. Sadly too sick to realise that most people find the peddling of superstition abhorrent, especially if it involves an attempt to demonise perfectly innocent bystanders.

  • Kendall Fields

    If you brag about what you do, you best be prepared to hear someone talk about it. You are just as sick as me and everyone else in the world. Your problems are not bigger than mine or less than mine. And religious mania? You mean going out trying to preach the world of God? Then yes I am sick with it but it is a sickness that helps you move forward to God. However you are sick with hatred of God which is blinding you to God’s love. I pray for you as we all need God in our lives.

  • Bubblecar

    I will leave you to your affliction and hope that some relative might be kind enough to have you sectioned before it’s too late.

  • Kendall Fields

    I pray that God help guide you away from your hatred of him because eventually you will to regret it.

  • Barry Duke

    I cracks me up when people like you demand scientific evidence when your cockamamie views are challenged. But when we demand scientific proof for your delusions, no answer is ever forthcoming. All you can do is point us towards the bible which is the least scientific book ever written, and which, by the way, is a dead loss as a guide morality. The bloody history of Christianity is proof of this.

  • Bubblecar

    There is of course no such thing as “god”, but in your lucid moments, I’m sure you know that. Let’s hope you have more such moments while you’re still able to dress yourself and cross the road safely.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nah the bloody history of Atheism has shown a lot more violence in the last century alone than in the last 2000 years of Christianity. All you showed is a magazine I wouldn’t trust and using the fact that animals do it to say it is okay for people to do it. And again are you going to say it is okay to do cannibalism because animals do it? And besides the Bible has been proven true on diseases and health throughout it. And to answer your thing about the Bible discussing insects is that they are talking about jumping insects.

  • Kendall Fields

    God is real and denying that he is real is just pitiful.

  • Barry Duke

    Let’s get back to my question, and forget your mythical deity. When did you choose your sexuality? If you do not give me a satisfactory answer, I will bar you for trolling. You have a nice day now 🙂

  • Kendall Fields

    And does the age matter? I made the choice to follow God when I was younger.

  • Kendall Fields

    But if you want me to go in depth I made the choice when me and my family talked about years ago back in 2012.

  • Barry Duke

    Finally! An answer of some sort. Not by any means a clear one, but one that suggests to me that you were, by nature, not heterosexual. Then along came Jesus and – hallelujah! – you were “cured”. ‘Cept, of course, you were were not. All you did was pull the blanket of Christianity over your head, and pretend that god would make all your natural tendencies go away. If I’ve got that right, you weren’t the first and certainly won’t be the last to be duped into living a lie by religion. These things never turn out well: https://tinyurl.com/y8wj826g

  • Kendall Fields

    Yet another a lie by you. By nature we are all heterosexual. I never said I was a homosexual. I said that me and my family talked about homosexuality.Ever since I chose to get baptized at a young age I have gotten stronger and stronger. Besides with God we all can be saved. However you want to try and justify what is wrong and using bad articles to try and prove your lies. Get yourself to church for your lies will not reach me.

  • Kendall Fields

    No it isn’t.

  • Kendall Fields

    And again for a guy who says he is not a homosexual you are really trying hard to defend it.

  • Barry Duke

    Where did I say I wasn’t gay? FFS I have been happily gay for 58 years, 21 years happily living with a lover who died of cancer, and 21 years living with my now husband. You need to watch this to get your head straight, no pun intended, about human sexuality: https://youtu.be/rsVg0fFaO0Q

  • Kendall Fields

    Ah so no wonder you are trying to say that I was a homosexual. You are trying to get me to follow your disgusting ways. You chose to become a homosexual and are justifying what you are doing. You need to get this in your head: you chose to be a homosexual. Besides don’t show me this garbage.

  • Kendall Fields

    Besides you are living with your homosexual partner, not a husband. You aren’t a woman.

  • Bubblecar

    We hear your cry for help Kendall, but there’s nothing we can do for you. If you won’t see a psychiatrist at least consult a trained counsellor. You’re clearly losing it.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I losing it? For stating the truth? You need seek to God rather than suggest people need a psychiatrist.

  • Bubblecar

    Instead of living a life, you’re trolling the internet with your endlessly repeated homophobia and religious craziness. You’ve lost it big time and I think you know it – you’re hoping someone here can help you.

    All we can do is assure you that yes, your behaviour is not remotely normal and yes, you do need help. You would probably benefit from deprogramming therapy designed for cult victims, but you need to be properly motivated and you have to accept that the journey back to sanity may be long, hard and challenging. Good luck.

  • Kendall Fields

    Wow so you devolved into calling me insane and saying I am a member of a cult. If anyone needs help it is you. I am living my life and I am just stating the truth. And tell me how do I fear homosexuality? Because I say it is wrong? Then I must have a fear of rape, incest, bestiality, adultery, lying, etc. You need to find God because your idiotic comments suggest you need him now more than ever.

  • Bubblecar

    Every time you babble about your gods, saviours, angels and demons, it just confirms your status as a delusional wreck, Kendall. As does every re-affirmation of your deep problems with your sexuality.

    Be honest now – have you been diagnosed with schizophrenia or some other psychotic condition? Nobody here can force you to seek professional help, we can merely point out that you sound like you desperately need it. And now there’s nothing more I can do for you.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how does it? Your sad attempts at trying to put me down are getting more and more pathetic. I suggest you seek Jesus and not the comfort of doing evil.

  • Raging Bee

    “Might have?” Perhaps if you’d had any real education in the matter, you “might have” a better answer than that.

  • Bubblecar

    “And how does it?”

    Seriously, you’re asking how does your constant repetition of your delusions demonstrate that you’re deluded? Perhaps you need to try to imagine how you appear to sane people.

    You appear as what you are: a Bible freak with a head full of holy ghosts and demons and little Baby Jesus skateboarding across the lake. You’ve convinced yourself that these ludicrous fantasies are real.

    I know we should be patient and tolerant with those suffering psychosis, but you use your illness as an excuse to try to hurt other people – the people you brand as “evil” simply because we’re not deranged and self-loathing sickos like you.

    You’re not just ill, you’re ill-intentioned and you really ought to be put safely in an institution.

  • Kendall Fields

    And you seemed to have deluded yourself into thinking that God isn’t real. I am just pointing out the truth while you can’t stand it and want to say that I am deranged. I am not self-loatJing can’t say the same for you. Get there to a church and follow God rather than try to say that I am crazy.

  • Bubblecar

    Oh I see, I’m the crazy guy? I’ve deluded myself into believing the world is as it appears to science, and to sane people? I’ve deluded myself that the supernatural hocus-pocus that fills your weird little mind is all nonsense?

    Remind yourself kid, you’re the one that believes in magic and miracles and all kinds of distorted occult bullshit that sane people know doesn’t exist.

    But arguing with maniacs is a waste of time, so I’ll leave to you to your frightening little hell of sacred delusion.

  • Kendall Fields

    No you are the crazy guy because you treat science like it is a god. Miracles happen all the time and you blind yourself to that. Now you run away because you can’t face the truth.

  • Bruce Gorton

    I am South African.

    We don’t need your American chicken sandwich, we have Nandos.

    https://dp6mhagng1yw3.cloudfront.net/entries/2nd-socialgood/bd5199f0-3e87-4e0b-a0fb-7d63b92aac98.JPG

  • Bruce Gorton

    In the last century – the biggest death tolls through violence were caused by theistic regimes.

    While the communists did cause more deaths overall, they were mostly due to the failures of communism as a system rather than direct violence. Once you take out deaths by famine the Nazis were deadliest regime, and they were distinctly Christian, going to far as to brag about having crushed atheism.

    The Nazis stuck people in death camps, the communists bought into ideologically driven psuedoscience that caused the crops to fail.

  • Kendall Fields

    Hitler was an Atheist and his regime was not based around Christianity. And the massacres done by the Atheistic communists were just as horrible if not worse than Hitler’s massacres. So don’t try to throw off what the communists did and try to say that the Nazis were Christians.

  • Bruce Gorton

    Hitler was a Catholic at the head of a party that was mainly Lutheran, and his regime actively persecuted atheists for much the same reasons that you would.

    Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith …we need believing people.

    We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out

    And I am not minimising the evils of the communist regime, simply remarking on the difference in their character,

    When the communists killed millions it was because, at their root, their policies failed. When the Nazis killed millions it was because at their root their policies did precisely what they were designed to do.

  • Hundreds of thousands of medical and mental health professionals have proven you wrong.

  • Scientific studies have shown there is a biological component to human sexuality, being gay is not a choice.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes Hitler was a Christian despite him insulting Christianity several times and saying Christianity makes people weak. Oh yeah and an old friend of Hitler when he was a kid said that Hitler stopped going to church after he finished high school.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how?

  • Kendall Fields

    It is a choice and many scientific studies have shown that people do choose to be homosexuals.

  • Kendall Fields

    Oh and Hitler was part Jewish so are you going to say he didn’t persecute Jews?

  • The people who tried to make that claim are no longer in business and 1 of the companies that put out bogus reports that people like you try to use actually turned out to be gay and said his reports were bogus.

  • This just shows you don’t know what you’re talking about because they have decades of research.

  • Kendall Fields

    The last one doesn’t matter but you could look on the internet about it and you will see that people choose to be homosexuals. If you say they don’t then why do they tell people that they are or better yet why do polls of people who say they are homosexuals shows increases in those numbers among millenials and decreases in older people if people are supposed born homosexuals?

  • Kendall Fields

    Yeah and those decades of research show people choose to be homosexuals.

  • No it does not and your post are only showing how prejudice you are towards this minority group.

  • Kendall Fields

    It does show people choose to be homosexuals. And I take it that you are a homosexual?

  • More lying too funny. Let’s guess you can’t grasp that straight people and Christians have fought for the civil rights of this minority group. All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and Thailand. The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation, and that’s all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality, as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology.

  • You do know that prejudice people use to quote scriptures to try and justify their prejudice toward African Americans. Today we look back on those people as immoral, this is just history repeating itself.

  • Kendall Fields

    Sure they do or rather they want to support what is wrong and say it can’t be changed. Science has shown that people are not born homosexuals and that people are not born into the wrong body. Science has shown that people choose the life they want to lead unless you want to say people are born to be in incestuous relationships.

  • No they do not, only prejudice religious people have put out bogus reports on homosexuality, all major medical and psychological institutes have proven them wrong. New research continues to come out showing being gay is not a choice. It’s called acceptance of the fact there are gay people, the older generation had to hide it because of the ignorance of hate toward them.

  • Kendall Fields

    No they haven’t. New research has shown otherwise to your lies.

  • Science has shown they are born gay, no matter how much you want to lie about it. The fact you can’t grasp you’re trying to compare apples to oranges is hilarious to read.

  • No they haven’t, scroll up everyone.

  • Kendall Fields

    Scripture that was not dealing with African Americans. However scripture shows that homosexuality is wrong just like all other sins. Being born with a different skin color is not a bad thing.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope science has shown that people are not born homosexuals but they choose to be homosexuals.

  • There are no scriptures that say being gay is a sin. Prejudice people who don’t use reading comprehension 101 try to make claims that r ape, male prostitution and pagan worship is gay but it’s not.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope I have looked up the research and seen the truth.

  • No it doesn’t and all you’re doing is showing you’re not a true Christian when you lie so much.

  • Nah, you’re just trolling spreading hate about this minority group.

  • Kendall Fields

    Scripture shows that homosexuality is wrong and it also shows rape and prostitution are wrong. People who blind themselves to the truth like what you are doing are only creating more problems.

  • There are no scriptures that say being homosexual is wrong, the word didn’t exist when the Bible was written.

  • Kendall Fields

    What can an Atheist like you know about being a Christian? You abandoned the faith and want to talk about people being Christians.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I spreading hatred?

  • You’re an atheist, got it.

  • Kendall Fields

    Just because the word didn’t exist doesn’t mean that the practice wasn’t disproved of.

  • By telling lies about this minority group.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I an Atheist? You have shown yourself to be an Atheist throughout this entire conversation.

  • It’s not disapproved of at all in the Bible, there are no scriptures that condemn the long term loving relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today.

  • Kendall Fields

    So speaking the truth is a lie? How pathetic of you.

  • No you have.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how?

  • You’re not speaking the truth, you’re telling lies to try and justify your personal prejudices.

  • You’re constant lying about this minority group and the Bible. It’s why 1000’s of Christian churches fought for the civil rights of this minority group.

  • Kendall Fields

    Because according to you speaking the truth about disgusting acts against God is being prejudice. This shows that you side with sin rather than fight for righteousness.

  • Thanks for proving my point.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yeah and those churches that promote homosexual tend to die off or lose a lot of their members. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong just like all other sexual sins.

  • Kendall Fields

    And your point is that I am speaking the truth?

  • No ti does not say it’s wrong, only prejudice people try to make that claim.

  • Oh look more lying, keep proving my point.

  • Kendall Fields

    It does and denying that will continue to hurt the world even more.

  • Kendall Fields

    And what am I lying about?

  • The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

  • Homosexuality and the Bible.

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope scripture says homosexuality is wrong and don’t try to say they are “loving”. Jesus also said marriage is between a man and a woman.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I lying about it? In the Bible homosexuality is wrong plain and simple.

  • No he didn’t and the sacrament of marriage wasn’t part of the church until recently.

  • No it doesn’t only prejudice people try to make that claim, it’s why real Christian churches are marrying gay couples.

  • Kendall Fields

    He did and if you are a Christian then tell me why did he say that God created man and woman that the two would become one. That a man would leave his parents to be with his wife. If that doesn’t say that marriage is between one man and one woman, I don’t know what to tell you.

  • Kendall Fields

    Those aren’t true churches. A church that promotes sin is a not a true church.

  • You really haven’t read the Bible have you, gays and lesbians are men and women. Now what did people use to do in the OT? Come on quick go google it….

  • They aren’t promoting sin, that’s only your prejudice saying that.

  • Kendall Fields

    You still refuse to comprehend the point. Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman. Are you going to argue otherwise with him?

  • Kendall Fields

    They are promoting sin and you still refuse to see it. Are you a “Christian” or are you an Atheist?

  • This just shows you don’t know history, your argument for marriage only came about in the last 50 years, now ask yourself why…..Oh…that’s right the Church didn’t view it that way…..

  • Kendall Fields

    So then what did they view? Because your lies continue to get more annoying.

  • Well based on your posts, you’re an atheist.

    Here’s an apology letter from the church on this subject. everyone.

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

  • This just shows you don’t know about the history of marriage. LOL!

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes and those churches that promote homosexual die off more than anything.

  • Kendall Fields

    Am I talking about history or about what God views? I could care less about what the church says.

  • No they aren’t, and the more you lie the more you demonstrate to the world your true atheism. We get it you’re trolling.

  • Thanks for proving you’re really an atheist with that comment.

  • Kendall Fields

    You remind me a lot of the Pharisees.

  • Thanks for proving my point again, continue….

  • Kendall Fields

    And how does it prove that I am an Atheist? Because I will stand against the church on what it does if it goes against the word of God.

  • You’re going against the word of God constantly in your posts on here and you have no clue why, your hypocrisy is hilarious.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I proving your point?

  • See above everyone….continue…

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes because the word of God totally shows that homosexuality is okay despite the vast amount of evidence that says it is wrong.

  • Wow more lying there is no vast amount of evidence, that’s a complete lie.

  • Kendall Fields

    Instead of talking to an invisible crowd how about speaking to the person you accused of doing wrong?

  • Kendall Fields

    Nope it is the complete truth that the Bible condemns homosexuality unless you want to say that it doesn’t along with bestiality and incest?

  • The fact you’re trying to compare apples to oranges is really hilarious and shows your desperation since you lost this arument days ago. We get it you’re trolling….
    Oh by the way the Bible is full of incest and not condemned so you should be Ok with that at least.

  • Kendall Fields

    Then why does it condemn it in Leviticus?

  • Like I said everyone, scroll up for all the answers…continue….

  • Kendall Fields

    The only one being desperate here is you.

  • Condemns what? Let’s guess you don’t know what the Book of Levi is actually about.

  • Kendall Fields

    You are still trying to avoid the truth huh?

  • Kendall Fields

    God condemned incest in Leviticus. Do you understand what Leviticus is about?

  • It’s the holy code for Israel priests and nothing to do with Christianity.

  • No you are, it’s why you continue to lie and spread your hate about this minority group….continue proving me correct….

  • Kendall Fields

    It was meant for all of Israel. And just because the law has been fulfilled doesn’t mean that incest, murder, homosexuality, lying, adultery, kidnapping, etc are okay.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes a group that is promoting sin and you are trying to help them rather than try and convonce them to leave their sinful lives behind.

  • You really don’t know what that book is for, that’s hilarious!!! Keep demonstrating your atheism….

  • The only one promoting sin is you with your constant lying and prejudice comments.. continue…..

  • Bruce Gorton

    How about we look at what Hitler actually said:

    mbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.

    We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscience, and our Volk… This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our Volk. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our Volk and state, under its firm protection…. May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our Volk.

    In this world him who does not abandon himself the Almighty will not desert. Him who helps himself will the Almighty always also help; He will show him the way by which he can gain his rights, his freedom, and therefore his future.

    The National Socialist Movement has wrought this miracle. If Almighty God granted success to this work, then the Party was His instrument.

    From the time when the Movement I consisted of seven men, until we took over power in January 1933, the path was so miraculous that only Providence itself with its blessing could have made this possible… Our enemies must not deceive themselves—in the 2,000 years of German history known to us, our people have never been more united than today. The Lord of the Universe has treated us so well in the past years that we bow in gratitude to a providence which has allowed us to be members of such a great nation. We thank Him that we also can be entered with honor into the ever-lasting book of German history!

    God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work.

    I can keep on quoting Hitler’s if you’d like.

    You see the thing about Hitler was, he was a fucking head of state, his speeches are part of the public record.

  • Kendall Fields

    And does it mean that because he made a lot of speeches mentioning God that he believed in him? No. Because you also did not quote Hitler’s lines about Christianity making people weak. He is the same man who said that the superior race is blond hair and blue eyes yet he had brown hair and brown eyes.

  • Kendall Fields

    And tell me how am I displaying Atheism?

  • Kendall Fields

    No the one who is promoting sin is you especially with your justification of homosexuality and incest.

  • Bruce Gorton

    Oh and note, part of what Hitler did in his rise to power was target a marginilsed minority to paint as enemies who shouldn’t be trusted.

    That to me is the mark of Christian inferiority by the way, not that Hitler was a Christian, there were plenty of bad people who weren’t, (Stalin and Mao may not have killed as many through violence but they killed plenty, and their incompetence killed scores more) but that you feel the need to lie about it in order to repeat the exact same style of propaganda that he himself utilised.

    I can say that we learned from the evils of Stalin and Mao, you meanwhile? You have to lie about history so as to avoid having to learn from it.

  • Your constant lying and prejudice, there’s no way you’re a follower of Christ based on what you’ve posted here.

  • Kendall Fields

    And the efforts of atheists have shown the mark of Atheist stupidity.

  • You do realize you’ve made similar claims about Christianity and other Christians on here, so based on your own post, you’re not a true believer in Christ or God.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how am I lying? I have done nothing but speak the truth. You are the one who is lying here.

  • Kendall Fields

    And what did I claim about Christianity? Stating the truth that anyone can call themselves but not actually be what they say they are.

  • No matter how many times you lie about it, it won’t make it true. Being gay is not a sin. You’re the one that needs to leave your lying and prejudice behind you, you’re sinning so much on here there’s no way you’re a real Christian.

  • Kendall Fields

    We all sin but I am not the one who is trying to justify a sin here. That is you.

  • Well you proved quite nicely you’re not what you say you are.

  • I never brought up incest that was you trying to compare apples to oranges, I merely pointed out the Bible promotes it. Thanks for demonstrating your lying again and why your atheism is coming out loud and clear for everyone to see.

  • You’re trying to justify your constant lying and prejudice, those are both sins. Lying is condemned 110 times in the Bible.

  • You’ve not spoken the truth at all on here, that’s the point. Satan be gone!

  • Bruce Gorton

    Wow that’s quite a superpower you have there, you can read the minds of long dead people so well that you know better than their own words about what really thought.

    Hitler’s rise to power came at the same time as a lot of atheists rising to power, and do you know who those atheists didn’t thank for their rule? God. They also didn’t brag about stamping out atheism.

    But you’re Kendall Fields, mind reader of the dead, you know better than to look at Hitler’s public statements, his book or his governmental policies directed at “stamping out” atheism, you know what he was really about dontcha?

  • Kendall Fields

    And how?

  • Kendall Fields

    And what have I lied about?

  • Kendall Fields

    I have spoken the truth ut you refuse to accept it.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes and Hitler was also a Jew yet did he try to kill himself? It is not mind reading but understanding who the person is. Hitler was liar and a schemer. And tell me what Christian says Christianity makes people weak?

  • Bruce Gorton

    I don’t know, I’m not the one who can read the minds of long dead people. What kind of atheist bans atheist organisations, and argues against secular education?

  • Kendall Fields

    What kind of Christian would kill Christians and restrict them? Or what kind of Jew kills other Jews?

  • Bruce Gorton

    What kind of Christian kills Christians? Seriously? Have you never looked at European history pre 1900? Almost every second war in Europe at that point involved Christians killing other Christians, sometimes over minor doctrinal differences, sometimes over territory, sometimes as a way of getting out of paying their debts.

    What do you think happened to the knights Templar? A Christian order of knights, set up their own little banking empire – and whoop, they got offed by other Christians because the king wasn’t great at balancing a checkbook.

    Do you think the protestant reformation was bloodless?

    The bulk of WWI was Christians killing other Christians. Heck the partition in Ireland was mostly about two different brands of Christian not being that good at getting on with each other.

    What kind of Christian would kill Christians – that’s like saying Islamist terrorists aren’t really Muslim because they mostly kill other Muslims.

    Come on, get serious.

  • Kendall Fields

    No you need to get serious and understand. As I figured you would miss the point and go on a tirade. I am not surprised you missed the point.

  • No you have not, you’ve done nothing but lie on here. Satan be gone!

  • By constantly lying, since it’s is condemned 110 times in the Bible.

  • Bruce Gorton

    Oh I read and understood – you just don’t get it.

    Your identity does not immunize you. You have bought into tribal propaganda, not history, and you use history as tribal propaganda.

    You are disturbed by the idea that Hitler was a Christian precisely because that would imply that being a Christian and doing very bad things can go together.

    However throughout history – there have been very bad people who have done very bad things and been Christian.

    And a lot of the people they did these things to – have often been Christians too. The 100 year war – both sides were Christians.

    The Nazis believed they were fighting the godless Bolsheviks and on their belt buckles it said “Gott mit uns”. The communists believed they were fighting the evil capitalists and would one day triumph through Marx’s manifest destiny.

    They weren’t cartoon villains cackling about how they wanted to ruin the world, they were people.

    Just. Like. Us.

    You are here thinking you’re fighting the evil atheists who did all these bad things in history – and have to deny part of history in order to maintain the illusion of your tribe’s purity else admit that maybe it isn’t about what ideological tribe anybody is in.

    It is about who we are, about our capacity to have absolute faith in the rightness of actions which are very wrong. How far we are willing to go in the fight against evil – tells us exactly how evil we are willing to be.

    That’s the real rub here – history teaches us that it is often when we think we’re fighting the good fight, that we’re doing our darkest deeds.

  • Kendall Fields

    And how have I lied?

  • Kendall Fields

    And what have I lied about?

  • Kendall Fields

    I am more disturbed that you say Hitler is a Christian despite his words to the contrary. There have been plenty of people who claim to fight for God yet Hitler showed he was not one. He murdered the same Christians he supposedly championed, denounced the faith, lied about the origins of Jesus, etc. If that does not show he is not a Christian, then you are really blind. I have never claimed Christians were exceptionally pure but you Atheists seem to think we do. You have given into the lies against God and tried to say a man who showed throughout his career to be a liar and schemer was a Christian despite his own words on the matter.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yes because you tried to excuse homosexuality despite the scripture saying that it is a sin.

  • Barry Duke

    Quoting scripture to atheists? You really are wired to the moon. All your posts here suggest you have the intellect of gnat. There’s more sense in Harry Potter than on any other page of the bible. Now go away and stop trolling this blog, you annoying fucking imbecile.

  • Kendall Fields

    Yep I am not the smartest guy ever but at least I have enough knowledge to do what is right. We all stumble and do wrong but I thank God that he is helping along the right track. There is far less sense in Harry Potter while the Bible represents the truth of the world and how we need Jesus. I suggest you leave this website and go find Jesus.

  • Barry Duke

    “Yep I am not the smartest guy ever …” Understatement of the year. You must have more teeth than brain cells to believe the shit that is Christianity. BTW you’re banned!

  • There are no scriptures that say being gay is a sin. The fact you keep lying about it is very telling.

  • The Bible and homosexuality.

  • It doesn’t say it’s a sin, only people consumed with prejudice try to make that claim.

  • You’ve lied about the Bible and about homosexuality, you’ve proven quite nicely you don’t understand either of them.

  • Barry Duke

    Give up on this Kendall creature, Tracy. His gross ignorance suggests he was home-schooled, thus utterly without any knowledge of history or human sexuality. Oh, and I have banned him.

  • Bruce Gorton

    He murdered the same Christians he supposedly championed,

    Which is well within line for the behaviour of Christian leaders going back centuries.

    The Cathars were a Christian sect – Pope Innocent III launched a crusade against them.

    What you’re doing here is essentially proclaiming Christians cannot be bad people, and then when confronted with a bad person who was a Christian proclaiming they weren’t a real Christian.

    Not only that, but you’re trying to shunt that Christian over to the atheist side – despite the fact that he never claimed to be an atheist, and in fact his regime took measures to oppress atheist groups, in the process.

    You are tampering with your samples which undermines the trust we can place in your entire case.

    There is another thing I’ve noticed about you Christians here, and I think this line illustrates it:

    You have given into the lies against God

    Christianity is not God. Christianity is a family of movements of people who claim to follow God. This is an important distinction here – because it illustrates one of the chief dangers Christianity poses to its adherents.

    Because God is imaginary what he wants is whatever you say he wants.

    You project your ideas onto your God and then claim they come from an infallible source, whereas it was actually just you the whole time.

    It is a means of borrowing authority while deflecting responsibility. “Don’t blame me it is the way the boss wants it.”

    And anybody can say anything and claim that’s the way the boss wants it, because the boss isn’t real and thus isn’t popping down to say “Hey, no, no, that is wrong I want something completely different.”

    In a lot of ways Thomas Aquinas had it the wrong way round, a God who existed would by necessity by imperfect for the role assigned to it as the ultimate scape-goat, as such a God could always mess things up by appearing and having its own ideas.

    There are tens of thousands of different versions of Christian, many of which believe all the others are going to hell, and no word from above about who has the right of it.

    And it isn’t God at fault for this, God doesn’t exist so he didn’t say squat, it is the fault of those who put words in God’s mouth – and that is really what Christianity amounts to.

    If God exists and wants to prove me wrong, it can pop right into this conversation, but right now I’m not challenging God, I’m challenging you.