Heretic! Catholic hardliners demand action against Pope Francis.

Heretic! Catholic hardliners demand action against Pope Francis. May 1, 2019
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CATHOLIC bishops have been urged to ‘take the necessary steps’ to stop the Pope’s pursuance of positions contrary to the faith and his dubious support of prelates who have shown themselves to have a clear disrespect for the Church’s faith and morals.

Those who think that Francis has strayed from the straight and narrow have accused him of heresy in an open letter. Among his accusers is Fr Aidan Nichols, one of the best-known theologians in the English-speaking world. The signatories are demanding that the bishops of the Catholic Church, to whom the open letter is addressed, should:

Take the steps necessary to deal with the grave situation of a Pope committing heresy.

The 19 signatories said:

We take this measure as a last resort to respond to the accumulating harm caused by Pope Francis’s words and actions over several years, which have given rise to one of the worst crises in the history of the Catholic Church.

The open letter is available in Dutch, Italian, German, French, and Spanish.

The letter’s text is dated “Easter Week” and appeared on the traditional Feast Day of St Catherine of Siena, an uppity saint who counseled and admonished several popes in her time.

The 20-page document is a follow-up to the 2017 Filial Correction of Pope Francis that was signed originally by 62 scholars and which stated that the Pope has:

Effectively upheld 7 heretical positions about marriage, the moral life, and the reception of the sacraments, and has caused these heretical opinions to spread in the Catholic Church.

The Pope’s detractors claim that it has now become clear that Pope Francis is aware of his own positions contrary to the faith and that the time has come to go a “stage further” by claiming that Pope Francis is:

Guilty of the crime of heresy. We limit ourselves to accusing him of heresy on occasions where he has publicly denied truths of the faith, and then consistently acted in a way that demonstrates that he disbelieves these truths that he has publicly denied.

However they have not gone as far as claiming that Francis has:

Denied truths of the faith in pronouncements that satisfy the conditions for an infallible papal teaching. We assert that this would be impossible, since it would be incompatible with the guidance given to the Church by the Holy Spirit.

But rather than let the good old “Holy Spirit” sort out the problem, they are dumping in the lap of the bishops who  must ensure that:

A heretical papacy may not be tolerated or dissimulated to avoid a worse evil.

Giordano Bruno was found guilty of heresy by the Catholic Church and burned at the stake in 1600

The signatories first present in detail – and with theological references to substantiate their claims – the different positions against the faith Pope Francis has shown himself to hold, propagate, or support, including:

Seven propositions contradicting divinely revealed truth.

Many of the Pope’s heretical statements touch on questions of marriage and the family and are to be found in Amoris Laetitia, but there is also a new claim made by Pope Francis in 2019 – namely, that the “diversity of religions” is “willed by God”.

While castigating the Pope, the signatories have warm words for those bishops who have defended Catholic doctrine by their own personal witnesses.

We recognise with gratitude that some among you have reaffirmed the truths contrary to the heresies which we have listed, or else have warned of serious dangers threatening the Church in this pontificate.

The authors make it clear that it is up to the bishops to take action and that they do not need a majority among the bishops to do so.

Since Pope Francis has manifested heresy by his actions as well as by his words, any abjuration must involve repudiating and reversing these actions, including his nomination of bishops and cardinals who have supported these heresies by their words or actions. Such an admonition is a duty of fraternal charity to the Pope, as well as a duty to the Church.

If – which God forbid! – Pope Francis does not bear the fruit of true repentance in response to these admonitions, we request that you carry out your duty of office to declare that he has committed the canonical delict of heresy and that he must suffer the canonical consequences of this crime.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • persephone

    I’d like to post a comment, but the word that figures prominently starts with an F, so I’ll just move on.

  • Michael Neville

    I understand that many people don’t want to read about Filosophy or French Fries.

  • phatkhat

    So, by being human and compassionate, he has committed heresy. Well, the RCC is pretty screwed up, and the worst crisis I see them having is the pedophile priests.

  • Matt G

    But God chose him!

  • Geez, what the hell do you want, guys? He still upholds important Church doctrine, such as that women and their horrible cooties can’t be allowed in the priesthood. And that exorcism is a legitimate idea, not irrational nonsense that causes vulnerable people harm. And that you shouldn’t have sex unless you have a strong risk of getting pregnant if you do it often enough.

  • Raging Bee

    But God changed his mind…(like a girl changes clothes)…

  • Freethinker

    He is “compassionate” to who exactly? This man presides over the oldest crime empires on earth.
    We now now know the Vatican’s top brass is made up of roughly 80% homosexuals who still tow the horrific homophobic attitudes AND he has done absolutely Fvck all to get rid of the infestation of pedophiles in the Catholic church with numbers running as high as 1 in 5 worldwise have have been for the last 2000 years. This man is nothing short of a scumbag. The people who are trying to oust him are even worse.

  • WallofSleep
  • Freethinker

    Don’t worry. He too will be “retiring” soon, you know to spend more time with his family…..oh wait…he has no family. It’s actually spending more time with that handsome Swiss guard that’s been hanging around the papal chambers a lot lately.

  • Robert McLean

    Isn’t silly old Frank the pope considered infallible or something similar? I think he is. If that’s the case, this gaggle of odious bishops or whatever they are, are stepping well over the line, one would think. Surely, if anybody knows what their pretend god fairy wants, it’s Frank, if not who? Given the falsity of their fairy and as god’s local rep, Frank is in the best position to make up stuff to keep the punters under control.

  • JEKinTX

    I am delighted to see such discord in religion. Mind you I don’t wish harm on any believer but sometimes the truth can hurt but only for a while and then you come to see that without that “ouch!” you would never have been able to see that you were being swindled.

  • JEKinTX

    And in my case, that happened 30 years ago. Not a Catholic but a Southern Baptist. Either way I hope others catch on. It seems that some are doing just that but it can never happen fast enough. The longer religious powers control others the more people will be affected and more than often in negative ways (sometimes physically, sometimes, emotionally, and sometimes both).

  • LimeGecko

    You can’t very well swear your undying fealty and submission to the magistrate and hierarchy of the Catholic Church which requires you to recognize the Pope as St Peter’s successor and Christ’s infallible vicar on Earth and then complain when you disagree with his teachings.

    Anyway the greatest crisis in the Church is the child sex abuse crisis.

  • Raging Bee

    The Pope can fire any or all of these reactionary wingnuts, any time he wants to. Worst case scenario for him: he calls an Ecumenical Council, rallies his supporters, and isolates and humiliates his enemies before quietly retiring the lot of them. His failure to do so, or even credibly threaten to do so, shows he’s weak, and that, in turn emboldens the wingnuts even more. It also shows he’ll never be any good for the rest of us. He’s rolling over for a Vatican junta, just like he rolled over for the Argentine junta.

  • Broga

    These smug nutters seem to think celibacy, which is weird when imposed on young misguided men and women, is the best behaviour. Meanwhile, they pronounce on marriage which of which they have no experience. Frankie should boot them out.

  • Freodin

    That’s a common misconception. The doctrine of papal infallibility is limited to very specific situations. Basically, the pope has to declare that what he now states is infallible.
    This idea was around before the First Vatican Council of 1870, but because there wasn’t any set rules, there was still debate which papal words were infallible. The First Vaticanum set these rules… and since then, there have only been two infallible papal statements: the immaculate conception of Mary and her physical ascencion into Heaven.
    In every other case, the pope is as fallible as any other divinely hand-picked leader of God’s Own Church can be. They are quite good at hedging their bets… limiting the “Infallible Statements” to these things that cannot – or need not – be debunked.

    Getting rid of a pope is another problem. After the last great schisms in the catholic church, and the councils that were set up to solve this problem, the positions of the church have shifted back to one of absolute papal authority. So basically, there is no way to fire a pope.
    They might exert some friendly pressure to convince him to resign though, especially after the precedend of Benni the Rat.

  • Brummie

    Way-hay! Insurrection in the ranks! bring it on. How any of them can justify their stance is beyond me.

  • barriejohn

    They are naive – and so are many of the people commenting on Vatican affairs in various places. The position of Pope has been largely a PR resonsibilty for many years now. Wake me up when he actually changes something!

  • barriejohn

    Benedict even abdicated; “You made a mistake choosing me, God – couldn’t you see what was coming?” And the Emperor of Japan (who is actually a god himself) has abdicated as well. Sometimes it’s difficult for us secularists to keep up with these things!

  • Broga

    Why does His Omnipotence not communicate what he wants with a clarity that leaves no doubt as to its meaning? Confusion reigns and certainty has so many different versions from so many different versions of Christianity that chaos and conflict are inevitable.

  • Matt G

    Or maybe Gorgeous Georg has grown weary of Pope Palpatine and is looking for some fresher meat….

  • Matt G

    They used to debate how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Sad to see that theological disagreements have not become more sophisticated with time.

  • Matt G

    Pass the popcorn!

  • Bezukhov

    Cool! I haven’t seen a nice Auto-da-fé for centuries.

  • Freethinker

    You mean he’s looking to be someone else’s fresher meat, in proper red pumps, higher up the food chain. Perhaps that’s the real reason Palpatine is now coming out against Franny. Oh the intrigues that go on in god’s bathhouse.

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    And so it begins.
    The infighting and backstabbing in the name of love. Looking for another Benedict. He was perfect for the role.

    Christians! Don’t EVER say the US is a “Christian” nation. You might as well go into Subway and order a “sandwich”.

    WHAT. KIND?
    Oh, foot long.
    No. SPECIFICALLY, what kind?

    I want to hear:
    This is a Baptist nation.
    Or…
    This is a Catholic nation.
    Or…
    This is a Mormon nation.
    Or…
    This is a Jehovah’s Witness nation.

    Hope you get the idea.
    Stop hiding under the umbrella of “christianity”. See how fast many of those “faithful” become heretical “enemies”.

    Once you have a spokesman to explain to nonbelievers what should be following EXACTLY, keep it under wraps. As in private, personal.

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    Exactly.
    What’s with the radio silence?
    In a time when we have literacy levels and communication capabilities unimaginable 200 years ago, let alone 2000, God seems disinterested in writing anymore.

    He’ll have a guy chisel rules in a stone table when most people are illiterate, but is adverse to email? How about just commanding someone’s TV?

    I mean, satan LOVES confusion and chaos. Why not address it?

    Christians. God and satan are the same person. Satan is god’s alter ego he uses to deflect blame for bad things, while receiving praise as God for only good things. That’s why he NEVER disciplines satan, but does make a “friendly wager” with satan over Job.

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    Yup.
    Like a mosquito bite. It will initially sting, and then the itch may irritate a while more. But ultimately it shouldn’t kill you.

    Get over the initial fear and embarrassment of being swindled and bullied, and everything gets better after that. Not instantly, but with time.

  • terremoto415

    Cat(lick) fight!

  • JRM7

    This is the sort of thing Steve Bannon has been up to. They want to get rid of this “liberal” Pope because he’s open-minded, fair, and loves the poor. It’s also consistent with the rise of religious nationalism everywhere in the world saThve Ireland. This will get really ugly next decade. Expect your lovely American government to crack down on heretics here including anyone who’s not a member of a mainstream religion. There is no separation of church and state. We won’t make it to 2030 intact . . . but so be it.

  • tatoo

    I thought the Pope was infallible?

  • phatkhat

    I think he has tried to make changes, actually, but it’s hard in a calcified organization like the RCC. Sure, there are things he could do better, but so could you and I. The fact that he’s being accused of heresy is probably a good indication he is doing things that are good. And he does seem to have a heart for the poor, which is unusual in Xtianity.

  • Freethinker

    “A heart for the poor”…is that the litmus test sufficient for you to gauge one’s morality or criminality? Every single Italian Mafia boss of note over the centuries has donated money to the poor to show their benevolence while committing all manner of crimes. In fact this is a default common tactic among organized crime bosses around the world.

    I guess if you were the judge you’d be be getting them off with a warning on the account of their PR good works. “Well, Tony, I know you killed all those people, extorted, tortured, addicted and ruined the lives of countless others but…you did make some donations to the less fortunate among us so let’s just call it even. You are free to go.”

  • AnglesWithFlies

    If we continue on our current trajectory, your prediction will be true.

  • AnglesWithFlies

    Love your analogy. Perfect fit. They use the umbrella term “Christian” only when trying to enlarge the group. When you talk doctrine, they are as diverse and divisive as feral cats.

  • phatkhat

    I think a heart for the poor SHOULD be the litmus test for people who claim to be Xtian. Yet, it seems the furthest thing from their minds, at least here in the US.

    All of us are capable of both good and evil. And no, criminals should not be let off. But Francis has not murdered anyone, as far as I know. He certainly could do more about the pedophile priests, granted. As far as gays go, Francis has been more accepting than any Pope ever. Also atheists. But gays in the clergy – pedophiles, too – is not limited to the RCC. Xtianity is awash with them. And other denominations don’t do any better dealing with it. There is vast hypocrisy in all religions, which is one reason I’m not religious.

  • Damn. These delusional idiots are amazing in their ability to not see the complete (100%) failure of religion to bring the world peace that they all claim to be able to accomplish. They claim that it’s major task of their (and all other) religion, yet it hasn’t happened and never will as long as fairytales are accepted as factual.

    There will never be world peace until a huge majority of the 7 billion inhabitants of this one and only planet we have (say 90%) shun all religion and become secularists.

    #GodIsImaginary

  • That’s more information that falls on deaf ears here. You get a gold star for trying though. If god was real he wouldn’t need a human to proclaim his existence. Smiley face. 🙂

  • Phil

    Don’t they burn heretics alive and in public?

  • Ohyetwetrust

    the way Trump and GOP are going, it’ll soon be “This is a fascist nation” with the Dumpy as Dictator.

  • Ohyetwetrust

    Mad dogs, more like.

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    Partly right.
    When they say Christian, they mean christofascist. Never consider that. Authoritarian theocracy right this way, no waiting.

  • Ohyetwetrust

    Exactly right. I tend to hold back on using the ‘christofascist’ term but that is the correct.
    Steve Bannon is attempting a coup in Italy–and beyond— by using the sex abuse issue as a wedge to turn Catholics against the pope. Bannon’s goal is to set up authoritarian rule, political and religious, a la Trump in Europe.
    Richard Engel’s program runs this Sunday evening. https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/steve-bannon-is-going-after-pope-francis-1489886787730

  • Ohyetwetrust

    Christian fascism is coming. Steve Bannon is attempting a coup in Italy–and beyond—by using the sex abuse issue as a wedge to turn Catholics against the pope. Bannon’s goal is to set up authoritarian rule, political and religious, a la Trump in Europe.
    Richard Engel’s program runs this Sunday evening.
    https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/steve-bannon-is-going-after-pope-francis-1489886787730

  • Wisdom, Justice, Love

    They need the Catholics to back the extreme religious disposition. Tell those WARRIORS to get our and fight, and PROVE your devotion to god.

    Support the US christofascists movement, at least don’t contradict them. Obedience is your only goal.

    If Benedict were still in place we’d be well off to the (genetic/human) “races”.

  • Wow! Well, this is going to be fascinating. I have to wonder if they would go as far as the traditional punishment–a papal barbecue?

  • Well, he has no family that neither we nor he knows of–or he might know.

  • Taximan72

    Instead of dealing with crimes committed by RC priests, etc., these guys focus on bull shit. Disband the criminal organization and give the proceeds to the victims. This will send a message to the rest of the large criminal organizations like Exxon, etc. that they’re not above the law. Disgusting hypocritical people.

  • Shouldn’t the Holy Spirit be giving the same message to all the Catholics? Even to all religious people? To all people?

  • anne marie hovgaard
  • Shrdlu42theSecond

       Or, perhaps he is real, and doesn’t want humans talking for him?

  • Shrdlu42theSecond

       Yeah, because “secular” societies like the Soviet Union, Red China, and Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge have been so “peaceful”.

       Before you start claiming Religion is the sole (or even major) cause of our problems, you might want to review something known as the French Revolution, and the Reign of Terror!

  • barriejohn

    And you need to look up the meaning of the word “ideology”, because that’s where the problem lies!

  • Shrdlu42theSecond

       Sorry, barrie, but trying to “move the goalpost” or change the subject only amounts to evasion and avoidance – which is proof you have no good argument or Reply to make (otherwise, you’d have made it)!

       You originally claimed that Religion (not “ideology”) must be abandoned for there to be world peace. So I responded with examples of societies that had abandoned Religion, but weren’t very “peaceful”. (Except, in the sense of the old saying about making a desolation and calling it “peace”.) The point, of course, is to refute your claim that Secularism leads to peace. (And the implied claim that Religion only doesn’t.)

       By the way, Secularism (particularly in the way you’re using it) is an ideology too!

    P.S. – Just so we’re clear, for me Secularism simply means “Separation of Church and State”. Another way of putting it is to say that secular problems require secular solutions. But abandonment of Religion isn’t “Secularism”, it’s Anti-Theism, which as my examples show can be just as poisonous an ideology.

  • barriejohn

    You originally claimed that Religion (not “ideology”) must be abandoned for there to be world peace.

    No I didn’t.

    By the way, Secularism (particularly in the way you’re using it) is an ideology too!

    Not me again, but we’ve heard all this bullshit about atheism being a religion many times now. There have been atheistic ideologies that have been equally as poisonous as religious ones (the Nazis being a strange mix of Christians, theists, atheists, racists, paganists, etc.), but that’s human nature for you. People like to belong to a group and wave their flag (it’s obviously an animal instinct), but maybe mankind will eventually learn to rise above all this. With time running out, I’m not too optimistic, but we shouldn’t abandon hope.

    PS Secularism DOES mean separation of Church and Sate, and provides the best guarantee of religious freedom!

  • barriejohn

    And you need to look up the meaning of the word “ideology”, because that’s where the problem lies!

    That was all I said, and it was a reply to YOUR comment!

    You make an awful lot of assumptions about what people actually think and believe, but I’m not going to prolong this back-and-forth argument with you, as it’s getting us nowhere. And any sensible person can see that time is running out for Planet Earth – or at least for human existence as we know it – and no one’s coming to save us from the impending doom.

  • Shrdlu42theSecond

       I don’t make any “assumptions”, but you sure seem to be. You also appear to have poor reading comprehension skills. I already explained my mistake in confusing you with Jerry Bier (since corrected), and much of what I had previously written arose from that mistake.

       As for your remark about “ideology”, I already explained that too (in the context of my earlier mistake). So why beat a dead horse?

    P.S. – And how anything in this particular “thread” relates to “time running out” is beyond me. Now you really are trying to “move the goalpost” (change the subject)! But since I don’t want to be accused of “making assumptions”, until you explain precisely what you’re talking about, I have no response to make about that.