Good news: Christianity in NZ is fast heading towards extinction

Good news: Christianity in NZ is fast heading towards extinction September 24, 2019

LAST year Christians in New Zealand got the hump when Jesus was turfed out of parliament following a decision by the speaker – Labour’s Trevor Mallard – to remove all references to Christ in official government prayers.

Image via YouTube/RNZ

Although Mallard unfortunately stopped short of banishing prayer altogether – God still gets a mention –  around 1,000 Christians, who labeled him “Dishonorable Judas Mallard”, descended on parliament to protest the move. Some of the fools are pictured above.

Then earlier this year, New Zealand scrapped its archaic blasphemy law – a move welcomed by Jolene Phipps, President of Humanists NZ,  who stated:

Blasphemy laws have never served a useful or justifiable purpose. Instead they have been used to limit freedom of expression and freedom of religion or belief. Where they exist, blasphemy laws often incite violence rather than prevent it.

Charges of blasphemy are regularly used to persecute political or business rivals or to suppress minority groups. People accused of blasphemy have been stoned or hacked to death, and lawyers and judges intimidated with death threats or killed. We know a number of humanists accused of blasphemy who have sought refuge in New Zealand to escape persecution.

Now the country is back in the news following a report that the number of New Zealanders with “no religion” has officially surpassed the number of those who call themselves Christian.

Newly released data from the 2018 shows that 48.59 per cent of New Zealanders are not religious – up from 41.92 at the 2013 Census.

The number of people identifying with the Christian superstition has fallen from 47.65 per cent in 2013 to 37.31 per cent this year.

In a press release today, Humanists NZ said the numbers suggest it’s time to re-think the concessions and privileges afforded to Christians.

Phipps said:

Christianity has a privileged position in public policy today that is out of step with modern New Zealand. From parliamentary prayers to classrooms ‘closing’ during the school day so that Christian groups can run religious instruction, the concessions awarded to religious organisations clash with human rights and our concept of a free and fair society.

She added:

In our hospitals, 10 Christian churches get 100 per cent of the funding for chaplaincy, pastoral and spiritual support from the Ministry of Health.

Religious groups are awarded charity status and tax exemptions just for promoting religion.

Non-religious people need more recognition, support, services, and representation. We want to work together to ensure our voices are heard.

For the record, NZ’s Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, 39, ditched the Mormon faith in her twenties because of its hostility towards gays, and now calls herself an agnostic.

Image via YouTube

Last  year she became the first NZ PM to join a Pride parade in Auckland, as the pic above shows.

The 2018 Census numbers also show rising numbers of people identifying with other religions.

The number of Sikhs has more than doubled, from 19,191 in 2013 to 40,908 in 2018.

The number of those practising Islam has risen from 46,149 in 2013 to 61,455 in 2018.

And the number of Hindus also continues to climb, going from 89,319 in 2013 to 123,534 in 2018.

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  • James B

    Jesus is not truth ! It’s a bible verse not the definition of truth. Jesus is a myth. Therefore, he is not the truth. He is a lie !

  • kaydenpat

    Great news for New Zealanders.

    Sadly I don’t think I’ll live long enough to see similar numbers in my homeland of the U.S. Our country is dominated by Christianists.

  • Jim Jones

    Go back to Jesus land where your widdle feewings won’t be hurtied.

  • Kevin Klein

    I’m already in the holy land, God bless your confused soul.

  • Polytropos

    Some days, I’m proud to be a Kiwi.

  • epeeist

    Sorry, I don’t understand why it is bigoted. Could you possibly explain?

  • Kevin Klein

    Yeah, I possibly could. If any conservative commentator would write an article like this about your sharia loving friends, you lefties would be screaming ‘islamophobia’ all over the place. You people are not only abandoning the religion that the West was once built upon, but your own history and culture as well.

  • epeeist

    your sharia loving friends, you lefties would be screaming ‘islamophobia’ all over the place.

    So, writing an article that describes a change that simply removes the privilege given to Christianity but still allows prayer and a reference to “Almighty God” and the decline of religion in New Zealand is bigoted but a post that refers to the people here as “sharia loving” and “lefties” isn’t.

    You people are not only abandoning the religion that the West was once built upon, but your own history and culture as well.

    I live in the UK where Christianity has held sway, but you ignore the fact we are a democracy, a political philosophy developed in Greece and derives from Christianity not at all. We also have a Parliament and follow common law, things that were developed in countries like Iceland and the Isle of Man before those countries converted to Christianity.

    You might have seen that our Supreme Court ruled in favour of the primacy of Parliament yesterday against those who attempted to undermine it.

  • johnsoncatman

    A brand new account with only four comments (as of this morning, 9/25). Maybe got banned under another name. And showing the christian love with the last sentence of his comment.

  • Barry Duke

    “I assume you’re more busy whining about Brexit, which is also extremely democratic …”

    Crap. It was profoundly anti-democractic as thousands who had a stake in the EU were disenfranchised. (

  • Kevin Klein

    Pretty hard to show christian love towards bigots who have been so resentful towards our religion over decades now. I don’t see too many conservatives writing such articles about atheists, who have done their fair share of damage to the world as well. And yes, my account is new because this article appeared in my feed, so what? I never got banned…

  • Kevin Klein

    Nobody is forcing anybody to pray. You can participate in silence if you will. You’re advocating to ban prayer, I mean who is the intolerant one??

    If you look at how many people in the US identify as Christians vs how many identify as atheists, I think you’re the one not liking it. You don’t believe in God, that’s fine. You can keep your beliefs to yourself and let religious people pray if they want to.

  • johnsoncatman

    Your attitude is the perfect example of the christian “love” of which I was speaking. (“Love” actually being demonstrated as Hate.) The only resentment that anyone here has for your religion is how you try to force everyone to accept YOUR beliefs and inject them into public policy.
    I agree with you that conservatives have done their fair share of damage to the world, and I would go further and say that conservatives have done the majority of damage to the world.
    Congratulations on the new account. Do some more reading and you may actually learn something.

  • anxionnat

    Most recent religious surveys in the US shows “nones” neck-in-neck with catholics and with evangelical white protestants. All those “nones” are not atheists, granted. But “nones” are the fastest-growing “religious” option here. So, if I were you, I’d take an object lesson from that. “So many christians” no longer flies, especially with people aged 18-29.

  • CoastalMaineBird

    You can keep your beliefs to yourself and let religious people pray if they want to.
    I have no problem letting them pray, when they are private citizens. When they are GOVERNMENT servants, they are supposed to serve EVERYBODY.

    Why is there such a thing as “official government prayers” anyway?

  • Kevin Klein

    I suppose because of historical context. You could also argue why we even celebrate Christmas, or Easter. It’s just what it is. If there are Christians who have tried to force their beliefs on you, then that’s not right. I apologise on their behalf. But in my view, a prayer that lasts less than a minute won’t necessarily do other people harm.

  • Jens Christian

    The same Parliament who rejected the people’s vote and now dont want an election? Imagine how you would feel had it been a remain vote and parliament decided to leave anyway……

  • Barry Duke

    Atheism “a religion”? You Mr Klein have just proved that you have more teeth than brain cells. Now just go and kick a ball along a busy motorway rather than post moronic comments on this site.

  • Jens Christian

    You mean to be in the closet and be quited about your identity? I have always been a staunch supporter of the liberal democracy which are more or less value neutral and a strict separation between church and state. I don’t believe in forcing your spaghetti gods and their dogmas on other people but over the last few years realised the secular have no problems forcing their dogmas on Christians and other social conservative believers or agnostic people. Bible believing Christians are denied being Forster parents or adoption in England and Canada while students like Felix ngole are denied education because they have old fashioned ideas about human sexuality and marriage. Live and let live is not in many people nature and we are not going to live in utopia when the “horrible and stupid ” Christians disappear but in a new intolerant society which are dictated by secular woke progressives fascis.. When i read Jordan Peterson is disinvited from Cambridge university or universities make lists of words not allowed to use or murals of George Washington are being destroyed because they could trigger some…welll good luck but i think you will be disappointed with your secular paradise.

  • Kevin Klein

    Atheism is a belief system, as you believe that there is no God. It clearly is part of your identity, therefore it is not just a mere lack of belief. This article on it’s own basically proves that. If atheists simply lack belief, why do they want to have more representation in parliaments and governments? Nobody would advocate to have more representation of a lack of something, that makes no sense whatsoever. You follow your own ideology without even realising it. I also like my teeth, and sometimes I kick balls too. But sometimes I also educate clueless people like yourself.

  • Freethinker

    Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hairstyle. The only reason Atheism is a thing is because so many people believe so many idiotic mythologies which they then try to ramrod down everyone else throats as has been the case for thousands of years.

  • Freethinker

    I’m already in the holy land

    Which one…Saudi Arabia or India? Or is “holy land” simply a code word for a mental ward you are a patient at?

  • Barry Duke

    “If atheists simply lack belief, why do they want to have more representation in parliaments and governments?” No we don’t. We simply want NO religious presence or any other form of dogma in parliament, schools, universities etc. Superstition belongs solely in places of worship and in the minds and homes of infantile believers such as yourself.

    But so long as the religious are allowed undue influence and privilege in secular institutions where social policies are determined or taught, then the opposing views should be given equal weight.

  • Kevin Klein

    There are many atheists who want to see their group being represented in parliaments, committees and other institutions. I’m not sure if that applies to you personally, but many do. Bill Maher is one of them, he told Barack Obama very directly ( The fact that you identify as an atheist and demand equal representation shows that this is part of who you are, and not a lack thereof. Atheism is your religion and science is your God.

  • Some Guy

    All the info below is taken from Wikipedia with verified sources (most a minimum of 3 sources). This is not to say that state Christianity has always been a force for good, but since you want to use world history to make a case against something, you also need to consider arguments against state atheism.

    “Adolf Hitler’s religious beliefs have been a matter of debate; the wide consensus of historians consider him to have been irreligious, anti-Christian, anti-clerical and scientific.”

    Suppression of religion and conversions to an atheistic world view:

    “Under the doctrine of state atheism in the Soviet Union, there was a “government-sponsored program of forced conversion to atheism” conducted by Communists.[160][161][162] This program included the overarching objective to establish not only a fundamentally materialistic conception of the universe, but to foster “direct and open criticism of the religious outlook” by means of establishing an “anti-religious trend” across the entire school.[163] The Russian Orthodox Church, for centuries the strongest of all Orthodox Churches, was violently suppressed.[164]”

    “During the French Revolution, a campaign of dechristianization happened which included removal and destruction of religious objects from places of worship; English librarian Thomas Hartwell Horne and biblical scholar Samuel Davidson write that ‘churches were converted into ‘temples of reason,’ in which atheistical and licentious homilies were substituted for the proscribed service’.”

    “The emergence of Communist states across East Asia after World War Two saw religion purged by atheist regimes across China, North Korea and much of Indo-China.[182] In 1949, China became a Communist state under the leadership of Mao Zedong’s Communist Party of China. Prior to this takeover, China itself was previously a cradle of religious thought since ancient times, being the birthplace of Confucianism and Daoism, and Buddhists having arrived in the first century AD. Under Mao, China became officially atheist, and though some religious practices were permitted to continue under State supervision, religious groups deemed a threat to order have been suppressed—as with Tibetan Buddhism from 1959 and Falun Gong in recent years.”

    “As of November 2018, in present-day China, the government has detained many people in internment camps, “where Uighur Muslims are remade into atheist Chinese subjects”.”

    “Articles 3, 5, 24, 27, and 130 of the Mexican Constitution of 1917 as originally enacted were anticlerical and enormously restricted religious freedoms.[187] At first the anticlerical provisions were only sporadically enforced, but when President Plutarco Elías Calles took office, he enforced the provisions strictly.[187] Calles’ Mexico has been characterized as an atheist state[188] and his program as being one to eradicate religion in Mexico.”

  • Did you wonder WHY that happened during, for example, the French Revolution?

    Did you note how in USSR God was substituted by the State -Stalin’s cult of personality when the man was around, for example-, and the Chinese equivalent then and now?. As far as I know, for example, atheism formed part of the pack of Commnism and was not the main force driving it.

    Also, have you ever thought what would have happened, say, in the Crusades had had access armies of the era to modern weaponry, up to nuclear one?

    Atheists by no means are 100% “good guys”, but things are deeper here than just “in the name of atheism”.

  • Those PRATTs are going nowhere. Do not expect also “love” when your kind has treated so bad unbelievers in the past, up to killing them and not just “convert or else”.

    Same now when others threaten unbelievers with damnation and complain of being prosecuted while insult unbelievers just because “the” book” says so.

    If you want to believe, so be it. Keep it for yourself and everything will be fine. But do not attempt to force it down on others and think people will like it.

  • I will pray Ehlonna of the Forests for you.

  • epeeist

    The same Parliament who rejected the people’s vote and now dont want an election?

    The “people’s vote” on a referendum that Cameron only called in an attempt to quell the dissent in his own party and to try and undercut Farage and UKIP you mean. The one that was characterised by misfeasance by various parties on the leave side. The “people’s vote” that even then was only won by a 52:48 majority. Who was it who said, “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way”?

    As far now not wanting an election, would you trust a man with an indeterminate number of children who was sacked from his job as a journalist for lying, sacked for lying about an affair to the chairman of the Tory party? Oh, not forgetting employing someone who has already been held in contempt of parliament and someone else who was forced to resign for inappropriate conduct as International Development Secretary?

  • Kevin Klein

    I don’t see Christians killings non believers. As a matter of fact, Christians are being genocide in the Middle East right now. Also very “deep” of you to differentiate when it comes to the atheist dictators of the 20th century, but paint all religious “pratts” with the same brush. You atheists a just a bunch of snowflakes who feel offended just because some people say a prayer in public.

  • Kevin Klein

    Wow, @Freethinker is such a brave guy. Not only does he write such biased BS articles, but he also marks factual comments in which he got owned as spam. I guess free speech only counts when he’s doing it.

  • Kevin Klein

    I guess the Freethinker is too embarrassed that he got owned, so he has to use his authority as an admin to delete comments he doesn’t like. It seems that he likes challenging people on history, but doesn’t like the answer. Free thinking only goes one way with these cowards.

  • Some Guy

    I didn’t say it was in the name of atheism, but just as you say that things were deeper than first appearances, a case can be made that many wars you say were religious, were only religious in name, i.e. it was imperialism in disguise.

    I would also like to know if you know how many of wars fought throughout human history can be attributed to religion? If you take the Encyclopedia of War, written by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod, and count the amount of wars that can be attributed to religion, it works out to account for 6.92% of all wars. More than half of them were waged by Islamic nations (that’s including the Crusades as 10 separate wars).

    Also, the philosophies guiding these dictators and revolutionaries were in part due to their atheism. We can see how nations and tribes can be roused to conquer other nations using religion (or other division lines, as only 6.92% of wars used religion), but what is interesting is to understand what ideology (and the underpinnings of that ideology) can cause a nation to kill millions of its own people.

  • epeeist

    Nice display of cherry picking, not bad! How about the title alone”Good news: Christianity in NZ is fast heading towards extinction” as a totally non-bigoted statement.

    You accuse me of cherry picking and then limit your response to the title?

    As it is, I fail to see why this is bigoted, if we make a substitution, “Good news: Christianity Atheism in NZ is fast heading towards extinction”, presumably by your argument this would be bigoted too?

    maybe you should read up on all the things the church has influenced in western civilisation in terms of schooling, medical care, art and philosophy

    Schools? Like the Academy and the Lyceum you mean? Like the triadic system (Grammar, technical and modern) set up by the 1944 Education Act that was based on Plato’s Republic? As for medicine, this goes back to at least Hippocrates and Galen and on through people like Al Razi. Philosophy? Look at where the word comes from, “φιλοσοφία”, Christianity has to borrow from people like Plato and Aristotle because its system of ethics was so sparse and inadequate.

    You do realise that Charlemagne had to issue an edict to make religious institutions like cathedrals and monasteries set up schools because scholarship in them was so poor. That Gerard of Cremona could complain about the “Poverty of the Latins” because at that time they had so little access to the works of Plato, Aristotle and other authors compared to the Arabs and Persians of the time?

  • Barry Duke

    Jesus Christ on a fucking bike, why are you going on about your comments being marked as spam? Many comments – not only yours – automatically get shunted into moderation because that’s the stupid way Disqus works. And that pisses me off. All of your inane and frankly stupid assertions – like atheism is a religion and that Hitler was an atheist – have been published.

    I expect an apology for falsely acccusing me binning your comments, and calling me a coward.

  • epeeist

    But reading your last comment, I assume you’re more busy whining about Brexit, which is also extremely democratic by the way… I suppose referendums should just be ignored as long as they don’t turn out ‘the right way’.

    I have already responded to this elsewhere.

    As I have already said, we are a Parliamentary democracy. An advisory referendum with some dubious funding on the Leave side does not override the fact that parliament is sovereign.

    And before you leap into “liberal elites”, here is a picture of the person who ran the so-called “European Research Group” and is pushing hard for a “no-deal Brexit”.

  • Kjetil Hauge

    Being recentful over a religion who’s been murderous over centuries, millenia even, I have no problem with. Your religion deserves it. But don’t you worry, as an atheist I am resentful also to Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism or any other ideology who blocks rational thinking in humans.

  • Kevin Klein

    Again, your statements are simply not true. I didn’t limit my response to the title. If you’d care to read, I’ve given you two further examples for bigotry in this article. And yes, if somebody would write that atheism was “heading towards extinction” in a certain part of the world, and that this was a “good thing”, then I would definitely say that is a biased and bigoted article.

    The thing is, nobody is doing that. It’s always Christianity that is targeted for some reason. Even in situations where there are no more ways of denying it, our glorious lefty leaders tweet out their decry of attacks on “Easter worshipers”. Apparently you are not even allowed to describe Christians as victims explicitly, even in terror attacks. Funny how this was not the case at all when the attacks in Christchurch occurred. Just another weird coincidence I suppose.

    As for your other comments, again it’s just cherry picking of the highest order.

  • Vanity Unfair

    [A] prayer that lasts less than a minute won’t necessarily do other people harm.
    In that case, why not go the whole hog and follow the reported stricture of your supposed founder. It’s actually good advice.
    Matthew c6:6
    But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
    Incidentally, vv. 5 and 7 are also relevant.

    You could also argue why we even celebrate Christmas, or Easter.
    Only a small portion of us do. All the fun bits of the celebration are remnants of Pagan or Roman practice. Saturnalia, Yule and Oestre (other spellings are available) account for presents, feasting, trees, rabbits (hares, actually) eggs and, of course, the dying and rising god. They were just carried over into Christian practice to make the transition easier and given new symbolism. Denizens of this site already know this so to them I apologise for repeating such an oft-rehearsed fact.

  • I will pray Lurue, the Unicorn, for you.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” Adolf Hitler 1926
    “Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life’s work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me. In the years to come I shall continue on this road, uncompromisingly safeguarding my people’s interests, oblivious to all misery and danger, and filled with the holy conviction that God the Almighty will not abandon him who, during all his life, had no desire but to save his people from a fate it had never deserved, neither by virtue of its number nor by way of its importance.” Adolf Hitler 1945. There’s more. Plenty more

  • 24CaratHooligan

    We don’t believe there is no god. We KNOW there is not god. Different kettle of fish altogether

  • The keys respect to your examples are not only those wars include some as the Thirty Years War, whose effects were felt for centuries to come but also that they say a lot about the worst of religion, when despite claiming to be of peace it’s used to justify war, religious oppresion (the Middle Ages and the fate of some heresies come to mind) and this without including those where it was something secondary. Most if not all just based on the way some texts are interpreted.

    I’m not against religion but against both its abuse and proximity to power instead, even now, to treat with contempt those who either do not believe and have other because “the book” says so (“Every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord, every knee shall bend upon Jesus” even the ones of people as Alexander the Great, Buddha, 69Muhammad, and Confucius/gloating about watching from Heaven how unbelievers are judged/telling strangers that they’ll burn in 69Hell for not following Jesus, strong disliking of godless “Christian Humanism”, hypocrisy, clicheed sayings (“Christianity is not a religion”) and besides contempt for science many others I cannot remember now). Do not expect to make friends that way, especially when some have bothered to read the texts, know something about history, and have reasons to at least dislike them.

  • You’re not making Christianity better, you’re making it worse. Assume it.

  • You can keep your beliefs to yourself and let religious people pray if they want to.

    The feeling is mutual

  • Kevin Klein

    You’re not making atheism better, you’re making it worse. Assume it.

  • I repeat, the feeling is mutual for Christianity. I will pray Eldath, Goddess of peace, for you.

    Oh, and enjoy the blocking.

  • Barry Duke

    As you have chosen not to apologise for calling me a coward and wrongly accusing me of censorship, consider yourself banned from this site, you boring little imbecile.

  • Vanity Unfair

    You have a good point in there. A university-level education should entail having one’s previous beliefs challenged and the banning of speakers does not sit well with that aim. As long as what is said fits within the laws of incitement and defamation it does good to have ones preconceptions challenged. And to have a chance to return the challenge is even better. As Maryam Namazie has written:
    By their very nature, universities should be ‘unsafe spaces’ where orthodoxies are challenged and opinions questioned. Why go to university at all if you feel you have to be ‘protected’ from views you dislike?
    You also have a bad point. Felix Ngole was taking a course leading to qualification as a social worker. While so doing he published material with anti- homosexual content and was deemed to be unfit to practise as a social worker. This was overturned in the Court of Appeal earlier this year so he was not denied his education. Yes, I agree it should not have had to go that far. However, I do wonder how many clients he might have who maintain confidence in his ability to help them after learning of his views which are not just “old fashioned” but might also restrict his judgement.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    How so?

    You sound like a pathetic keyboard ‘warrior’.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower


  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    The MGTOW incel faction heard from.

    How pathetic.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Nobody is forcing anybody to pray.

    Try again. FFRF & AHA would be out of business if YOUR KIND weren’t violating the separation of church and state.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    How is neutrality, not embracing ANY religion, somehow forced on you?

    That’s like calling bald a hair color, or not stamp collecting a hobby.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Pretty hard to show christian love

    So what?

    According to YOUR KIND’s ‘rules’, that is *precisely* when you’re supposed to turn the other cheek, forgive seventy times seven, etc.

    WE are not bound by your book. WE only have to follow the rules that have worked all over the world, xtian or no, and that xtianity STOLE and ascribed to your superstitious jujudaddy.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Obviously I was referring to atheists who did the by far most damage to the world, not conservatives.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I don’t see Christians killings non believers.

    Lord’s Resistance Army

    Anthony Tiller

    Matthew Shepard

    Next question?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Also, the philosophies guiding these dictators and revolutionaries were in part due to their atheism.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Atheism is a belief system

    SO close.

    It’s an UNbelief (in ‘god(s)’ / supernatural) for lack of evidence.

    No tenets, rituals, etc.

    But thank you for playing! /sarc

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You’re whining, “B-b-but those meaniepie atheists are hitting us BACK FIRST!!!!”

    If YOUR KIND didn’t try to force your hateful superstitions into secular law, we wouldn’t have to get involved to protect our legal rights as disbelievers.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    From KK(k)’s prose, I’m guessin’ MurriKKKa…


  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Why do you consider honest reporting of a decline to be ‘bigoted’?

    My guess is that, were the shoe on the other foot (and you’ll deny this to your dying breath), you and YOUR KIND would be gloating unmercifully.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Xmas & Easter were both stolen from pagans.

    Xmas was stolen from various midwinter festivals, celebrations of the days getting longer again.

    Easter was stolen from spring fertility festivals…why do you think eggs and bunnies figure so prominently, rather than crosses, sackcloth, and tombs?

  • Jim Jones

    Matthew 6:5-6

    You don’t even obey Jesus’ clear rules.

  • Jim Jones

    Fred Rogers would ask you, “Are you being the best you that you can be?”

    And you know you are not. You are, instead, being an example of the worst Christian you can be.

    You are making enemies for your faith. Fred would be sad.

  • Jim Jones
  • Michael Neville

    You’re just another Christian who doesn’t know anything about atheism other than you hate it because we don’t share your beliefs. Most atheists say “I do not believe gods exist” (note the plural, there’s more gods than your favorite deity). That’s not the same as “I believe gods do not exist”.

    Why shouldn’t we be represented in governments? You have no problem with other Christians being in government, so why do you want to deny us representation?

    You’re not kicking balls, you’re just whining. “Them atheists is being mean ’cause they ain’t Christains like me.” Maybe one day, when you learn that not everyone shares your beliefs and ideas, you’ll learn to get along with others. But that’s not likely to happen as long as whining makes you feel happy.

  • epeeist

    I’ve given you two further examples for bigotry in this article.

    OK, let’s deal with them. Firstly banishing prayers, I was going to ask whether you thought that Muslims and Hindus were happy with Christian only prayers, but let’s go further back. Do you think that the Maori, who have their own culture and religion and were in New Zealand hundreds of years before its colonisation by Europeans?

    You have two choices, either you allow prayers from any religion or none to open the parliamentary day or you get rid of them completely. One would have to ask what purpose the prayers serve, speaking personally I see no reason for them. Does that make me a bigot?

    Secondly blasphemy, this is a victimless crime. If your god (or any other god for that matter) is affronted by “blasphemy” then let them sort it out. I am with Salman Rushdie on this, Privilege any system of ideas (which is what religions are) and protect it from criticism means that free speech is no longer possible.

    As for your other comments, again it’s just cherry picking of the highest order.

    You see I am perfectly happy to accept the contribution of Christianity to the culture here in the UK. Perfectly willing to accept that the music of people like Thomas Tallis and William Byrd were a positive benefit. But I am also aware of the precariousness of their position, both being musicians in the times of Catholic and Protestant monarchs. They survived, others did not being burnt for heresy or living in perpetual fear of their adherence to a particular denomination being found out.

    Further I am aware that our culture was not produced solely by Christianity. I have mentioned the Greeks, I live just outside of Manchester in the UK, Mamucium as it was named by the Romans (our local university is fairly late, its teaching is not based on the Roman Trivium and Quadrivium as it was in earlier universities).

    A short journey would take me to York, or Jorvik as it was named by the Vikings.

    I was born in a month named for the emperor August on a day of the week named after the Norse god Tiw.

    An interest in the history of ideas, and of science in particular, has made me aware of its beginnings in Greece through to its preservation by Islamic Arabia and Persia before being taken up in the West.

    It seems to be Christians in the main who want to deny the contribution of non-Christians in the development of our culture.

  • Freethinker

    Not coincidentally the essence of Christian “ethics”.

  • Freethinker

    Religion underpins hateful motivation in multiple conflicts as was publicly admitted by the Village Idiot in Chief himself when he went off script and stated the truth…..

  • Freethinker

    You should specify that references to some guy’s blog written from his skid marked couch bed in his parents’ basement are not admissible.

  • Freethinker

    Another statement with zero evidence. You are on a roll there Sparky.

    The only thing you are consistently “proving” is that beliefs in religious myths are the domain of the mentally unhinged.

  • Barry Duke

    This from Wiki:

    In Germany during the Nazi era, a 1933 decree stated that “No National Socialist may suffer detriment… on the ground that he does not make any religious profession at all”. However, the regime strongly opposed “godless communism”, and all of Germany’s atheist and largely left-wing freethought organizations such as the German Freethinkers League (500,000 members) were banned the same year … In a speech made later in 1933, Hitler claimed to have “stamped out” the atheistic movement.

    During the negotiations which lead up to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 26 April 1933 Hitler stated that “Secular schools can never be tolerated” because of their irreligious tendencies.

    On Hitler’s list of Brits to be killed after he occupied the UK was Winston Churchill (naturally) and Chapman Cohen, who was the Jewish atheist who edited the Freethinker from 1915 to 1951 and was a fierce critic of Nazism. ( His name was among 2,820 in Hitlers Black Book

  • MelindaF

    Ouch – scorched earth!

  • Freethinker
  • Michael Neville

    Another conservative who doesn’t know what free speech is. Frees speech means that the government will not prosecute you for making political statements. It does not guarantee you an audience, it does not provide you with a podium, and it does not protect you from criticism, rebuttal or ridicule.

    It’s Freethinker’s free speech to mark your comment as spam. If you don’t like it that’s your problem, not Freethinker’s.

  • Jim Jones

    Side note: I laugh at the description of a Passover where people wave palm fronds. They’re from Succoth which is later in the year! It’s like having Santa and reindeer.

  • Jim Jones

    > when the Catholic church has funded more hospitals around the globe than any other organisation.

    The RCC uses public funds to run hospitals – and abuse women.

  • Jim Jones

    > One would have to ask what purpose the prayers serve, speaking personally I see no reason for them.

    I’d rather listen to an Yma Sumac song. A least everyone would be awake afterwards!

  • Jim Jones

    Define ‘God’.

  • Jim Jones

    The governments of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the Kim family were not communist, socialist nor atheist. They are and were brutal dictatorships, pretending to be those things. These were mere decoration.

    In a similar way, in the US socialism is for the rich and powerful and their corporations. Capitalism, and a brutal version of it at best, is for everyone else.

  • Barry Duke

    Let me make this clear: I did not mark the fool’s comment as spam. For some reason this was automatically done by Disqus. I later approved it, but I was later compelled to ban him for trolling this site.

  • Michael Neville

    Sorry, I didn’t know of the bannation. Thanks for telling me.

  • Some Guy

    Very well, if you can just assert that. The Crusades were not Christian. They were imperialism, pretending to be a religious movement.
    The Thirty Years War was not a religious war, only a continuation of the France–Habsburg conflict. Both parties just using religious differences to gain political power over Europe.

  • Some Guy

    I’ll make this my last post. Not sure why, but it seems that the mod on this comment section responds to any dissident view with ad hominem attacks and post-deleting. Discussion drives traffic to a blog, stopping that seems questionable. But anyway.

    In the philosophy of Marxism, Marxist–Leninist atheism (also Marxist–Leninist scientific atheism) is the irreligious and anti-clerical element of Marxism–Leninism, the official state ideology of the Soviet Union.
    -Institute of Scientific Atheism of the Academy of Social Sciences (1981). Questions of Scientific Atheism

    You could also read A Sacred Space Is Never Empty: A History of Soviet Atheism by Victoria Smolkin, if you want. She outlines how atheism was central to Communism looking at their education programs and the Bolshevik leaders’ memoirs and statements.

    I’ll also post the following quote from Solzhenitsyn here, although I doubt it would persuade anyone here. It is nonetheless an insight from someone who lived through Stalin’s Russia and have written extensively on the subject, so it might be of some worth.

    “Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”
    Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”

  • Jim Jones

    I’m no great student of those wars but I have no reason to doubt you.

  • Kjetil Hauge

    Don’t forget those pro-lifers murdering doctors…now that’s irony for ya. Pro-lifers murdering people

  • David Cromie

    Have you never read Hitler’s Magnum Opus, or any of his speeches?

  • David Cromie

    Resorting to the ad populum fallacy does nothing to further your pathetic BS ravings, or the advent of the theocracy you obviously crave (even if you are too dim to realise it).

  • David Cromie

    Could we have that in cogent English, so that we could understand what point it is you are trying to get across? No wonder KK upvoted this incomprehensible word-salad, since you both appear to favour christo-fascist BS.

  • David Cromie

    Reese-Mogg (a friend of BoJo) is yesterday’s man (why no wing collar?).

  • RichardSRussell

    Not much point in reading anything else you have to say after the last sentence of your original post.

  • Andrea Fitzgerald

    Just what I was thinking 😉

  • Andrea Fitzgerald

    Exactly what I was thinking. This guy (KK) has absolutely no clue. 😉

  • Andrea Fitzgerald

    Which god? 😉

  • Andrea Fitzgerald

    My thoughts exactly!

  • EllyR I don’t know if I am proud but I am damn sure I am happy to live in this earthly heaven.

  • Justine Valinotti

    If atheism is a belief system, then asexauality is a sexual orientation.

  • Justine Valinotti

    If something is part of you are, it isn’t necessarily a belief system. For example, I am a 61 year old American female. Those things are part of my identity, but they are not belief systems, or even part of a belief system.

  • Freethinker

    Correct. The word “Socialist” which is now the new Rethugnicons’ bogey man term replacing the Cold War’s ‘Communist’, is almost irrelevant in its proper context. After all Canada is very much a Socialist country and running infinitely better and happier than the US and far from being “left” . Language has always been the first tool of wars and hijacking certain terms especially when it dehumanizes your enemies is always the first step.

  • Vanity Unfair

    In fact, the whole party name was a lie:

    National: it was international; the kleptocracy was for export.
    Socialist: very right-wing, pandering to the rich.
    Democratic: after usurping power Germany became a dictatorship.
    Workers’: Trade Unions were replaced by the Nazi-run Deutsche Arbeitsfront: a puppet “union”.
    Party: suggests participation where there was none.

  • DingoJack
  • DingoJack

    WWII deaths as percentage of German 1939 population (in 1937 borders): 8.23%
    Deaths within HRE due to Thirty Years War (estimate): 20-25%
    So if WWII dragged on for 5 times longer it’d have been bloodier (41.15%) — but it didn’t.

  • If Atheism were classed as a religion, then non-violence would have to be classed as a form of aggression.

    Why are Christian Trolls so lacking in intelligence? Bet your best friends are in the Westboro Baptist Church.