There is No Pro-Life Movement

There is No Pro-Life Movement May 16, 2019

Catholicism in the last few decades has been consumed by a tension between two struggles. The first: to live according to the Gospel in a compassionate, humble, and persistent way. The second: the temptation to dive into grandiose statements and the self-righteous minimizing of others.

The abortion debate has for decades been a distraction from the Gospel rather than a fulfillment of its teachings.

Why? Because many of the faithful are content with the easiest possible solutions: bans, restrictions, and intimidation. There is nothing easier to do in our country than to restrict women’s freedom. It has become an addiction and a distraction from a much harder question, one that would demand a level of soul-searching that the most vocal supporters of the recent law in Alabama are unable to have.

How do we build a world in which children can be lovingly born? How do we do this without giving in to the worst parts of ourselves? The parts that believe if we just shame and restrict women, they will behave as we want them to? That we can maintain the vast inequality between rich and poor and the below-bare-minimum support for new mothers and call ourselves Pro-Life in any way that is not a joke? Can we really believe that anyone can be a full citizen without having autonomy over the moral choices that affect their bodies?

When so many who applaud the brutalizing of immigrants, the separation of families, the death penalty, and the savaging of the poor, is the Pro-Life movement anything more than hollow branding of GOP policies? Another tribal marker that is as foreign to the Gospels as the crony capitalism they also cheer on?

So again we see the movement turn to easy answers that dehumanize women instead of the radical social change the Gospels demand. Hypocrisy and self-righteousness win the day again in a state legislature as children still go hungry in levels unheard of in an industrialized nation.

If you want a true Pro-Life movement put down the signs and pick up the serving spoon. Put down the poster board covered in disturbing images and start writing checks to food banks. Start smiling. Start helping. Start the sort of revolution the Gospels demand. Start supporting SNAP benefits and stop sharing snarky stories about mothers at grocery stores who dare to buy candy or soda for their children. Question your allegiance to Trump by reading the Gospels. Make this a country that welcomes and loves children and their mothers. Then, and only then, will we have a Pro-Life movement worth that name.


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  • Ancalagon

    “There is nothing easier to do in our country than to restrict women’s freedom.”

    How is that? Where have women’s freedoms been restricted so easily?

    Is “restricting women’s freedom” even appropriate rhetoric to address the abortion issue?

    Does punishing theft or murder with prison sentences or fines “restrict people’s (mostly men’s) freedoms?”

  • nicole

    Often i suspect that the pro-life movement is so popular among conservatives because it is so easy. Being pro-life costs you almost nothing. Once a year you march with a sign and then you feel morally superior to everybody else, no need to actually help people.

  • You know what? I’m tired of liars at Patheos Catholic who say that these things don’t happen. You known damn well that there are Catholics at every church performing corporal works of Mercy through various parish ministries, or just on their own. AND they’re still free to go protest and call for restrictions *on top of* their ministries.

    Why the hell do you and Shea and Pezzulo and Weiss and the other writers here keep lying about other Catholics? “No pro life movement”? Bull****. You’re lying. Maybe to get in with the woke people so you can show you’re not one of “those” Catholics.

    This site, save for a few authors, is full of it. Which is, unsurprisingly, not Catholic.

    Put your money where your mouth is and show us YOUR ministry, Mr. Columnist.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    You certainly can say this, but I lost faith in the “pro-life movement” many years ago. I used to think that the “pro-life movement” was one concerned with protecting life before birth. I don’t anymore. Now I think the “pro-life movement” is interested in destroying social safety nets and causing those who get pregnant to when they aren’t “supposed to” suffer as a precautionary tale. Are there exceptions, pro-life people who really do care about pregnant people and babies? Yes, absolutely and without question. Is this reflective of the “pro-life movement?” No.

    If you have a problem with the reputation that the “pro-life movement” has earned for itself, I’m sorry. It’s unfortunate. I wish the “pro-life movement” wouldn’t do things that earned it this reputation. But when it does those things, people are allowed to acknowledge what that says about the “pro-life movement.”

  • Fidi Prasanna

    Most of the pro life people try to advise women to not to open legs before marriage. But modern western women dont listen

  • DC

    Who are these useless bloggers who attack the real Catholics and Christians who actually out there helping real women and children and getting laws passed? What has this “poet, dad, blogger” done to help women and children who needed help and considered abortion? I’m gonna guess absolutely nothing while he tries to collect spare change from clicks tearing down the real people doing those things.

    This is shameful. Delete this slander, get your head out of the twittersphere, and go volunteer with actual people in the prolife movement. That or shut up.

  • DC

    No, Power Girl is right. You guys are shamefully publicizing that you don’t know anything about the counselors, volunteers, helpers, food bank workers, lobbyists, activists and other people who are in the prolife movement. Shut the laptop and go out and volunteer. Your perception of its “reputation” is determined by online media consumption, it’s clear. You’re not helping anyone – not women, not babies, not each other.

  • DC

    No, what’s easy is this online complaining that you guys are doing. Most people in the actual prolife movement are volunteering and donating quite a lot of time, effort, and money. What are you doing?

  • DC

    Exactly. I noticed he adopts the terminology of the prochoice left.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    Oh, I see. You know what I know and what I do, even without talking to me? Telepathy must be fascinating.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    Are you trying to provide a concrete example of Nicole’s point? Because you’re succeeding.

  • nicole

    Me, personally? Well thank you that you asked. I work(ed) in multiple projects helping refugees. Currently i’m starting a new day job but after i’m finally settled in i have plans for helping out with the local branch of the JRS. Plus i have done volunteer work for people with disabilities. As a student i even offered free tutoring of weaker children although i would have needed the money i would have gotten from paid tutoring.

    Any further questions?

    And what do you do for all human life?

  • Charles C.

    It may be possible to criticize the pro-life movement, I’m always open to changing my mind to accommodate new facts, logical arguments, or both, but this article presents none of that.

    First, how odd for an opponent of a movement to look at the shorthand name the movement is known by and then declare their own definition of that name which is broad enough to cover nearly every issue facing the country. As an example of why this is wrong, consider the pro-choice movement. An article could be written based on:

    I’m pro-choice. But not on issues like schools, guns, trade and business operations, health care, union memberships, light bulbs, shower heads, plastic straws, soda sizes, etc. etc. etc.

    One might object that the pro-choice movement is focusing on the abortion issue and not on those other choice issues, but if so, surely the pro-life movement can say the same thing.

    Second, it is very sloppy to claim that a pro-life position, even if one can justify labeling it so broadly, must subscripe to a certain set of policy solutions. We can disagree on what is the best method to bring dignity to humanity. Assuming that increasing welfare payments, as one example, increases dignity, independence, and community strength is not supported by our experience. There is room for disagreement but this article brings nothing useful to the conversation.

  • The poor need the rich for sustanance. I have never gotten a job from a poor man.

    The rich need the poor for salvation. Only the generous will be saved.

    Why do you want to destroy that system by killing off the poor?

  • DC

    I would suggest 1. not judging a movement by the fights you have with trolls on Twitter and blogs. 2. not judging a movement by the fights you had with an ex-coworker.

    The prolife advocates and volunteers in my town often come from union families. They’re fine with food stamps and help get people set up on them.

    This schtick where you guys go on the internet to 1. pretend all prolifers are hardline libertarians and 2. pretend that this even matters is silly and calumnious.

  • DC

    That’s good to hear. How would you feel if I said helping refugees and immigrants is “easy” and “costs you almost nothing”?

  • nicole

    what about advising guys not to stick their dicks into places where they don’t belong?

    For the sake of the argument let’s say people only fuck during marriage there would still be many abortions. Many abortions today happen because people think disabled children should be killed. What about working on a society that actively welcomes all life. That is generouse to all human beings no matter how convenient they are?

  • nicole

    That is definitely true in so many ways. There are so much more a person could do. I’m still easily able to work a full time job and i lead a relatively good life. Btw why did you only mention refugees, you forgot the mentally handicapped people.
    To answer your question i’d see it as a motivation.

    And you did not answer my question. What pro-life action do you take?

    And while you are at it please enlighten me as to how walking around with s sign once a year is a big sacrifice?

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I’m not supposed to judge the pro-life movement by interactions I’ve had with the pro-life movement? What exactly am I supposed to judge it based on, then?

  • Edward Hara

    What an utterly asinine reply. I have worked with two ministries run by a husband and wife who have given up everything to be able to help those in need. Both are deeply pro-life and that commitment causes them to run homes for those in need. The Silence of Mary Home in Harrisburg and the Paul Stefan Foundation in Orange are both run by deeply committed pro-life Christians. In turn, they exist because dozens and dozens of people have sacrificially given their time, talent, and treasure to make these ministries run. Hundreds of hours of volunteer time, many thousands of dollars, and personal involvement with the people who actual come to the homes for help.

  • DebraBrunsberg

    Just more of the useless tripe used to try to pretend that people who do not support the killing of unborn babies, are somehow less than Catholic or Christian because they do not show sympathy for the poor women who really want to kill their children without any guilt. More verbal B.S. that accomplishes nothing. Let me make this clear. Pregnancy is not a disease and abortion is not health care. No one, NO ONE, can profess to follow Jesus Christ, much less claim to be Catholic while they support the killing of God’s most innocent and vulnerable creations. How exactly do we pretty this up?

    I have never done any of the snarky things you blanket accuse everyone who supports life in the womb instead of the culture of death. Talk about fake Catholics, you are on the top of the heap. Not seeing Jesus supporting murder, with you know, that Thou Shalt Not Kill thing.

  • Fidi Prasanna

    If a guy put a dick in girl’s p**ssy forcefully and destroys her life he has to be put to death. Also if a girl in the night club seduces a guy and invite him to have a sex and after that if she cry “Muhh rape” I am okay to put her to death too. Honestly i am okay for punishing the rapists and the false rape accusers. Dont come and say that this is not happening. There are lot of false rape cases filed by women and when they found the truth it was the women who started to seduce and invite men to sex.

  • Nikolai

    Precisely. Abortion is an act of grave evil and violence, not freedom. Very sad and unfortunate that this author is misleading himself and his readers.
    The message of the Gospels isn’t “radical social change”, it is Jesus saying, ” Pick up your cross and follow me.”

  • Nikolai

    Easy? I’ve spent hours of my life on the sidewalk offering resources and caring options to women while suffering rebukes, curses, and even spit. I’ve offered my money, given resources and spent long hours in study. I’ve suffered for life, so have so many of my brothers and sisters.
    You have fallen in the very trap which this article’s author describes of judging and minimizing people.

  • Nikolai

    Disappointed to see such a poorly thought out article being shared around. The Gospel is a real thing, sir. It is Jesus’ message to us, “Take up your cross and follow me.” This Follow Me demands obedience to the way of life He lays out in Natural Law and Divine Law, and defines using the Church. It is nothing short of Satanic to twist this Gospel to justify abortion as care for women.
    Furthermore, you fall into your own trap of making grandiose statements and seeking to minimize the good works of people in the prolife movement. I have seen so much good happen in the Church. How shameful of you to ignore it in favor of an antiCatholic agenda.

  • DC

    >while you are at it please enlighten me as to how walking around with s sign once a year is a big sacrifice?

    Because that’s hardly all the prolife movement does. As I’ve reiterated, it’s mainly two arms: one which mostly assists real women and real children after pregnancy (so people need to drop the “you only care about babies until birth” trope) and a smaller one which engages with real legislatures to enact real change.

    Not that marching is itself something I would call easy. You get yelled at by counter protesters, maligned in the media, and then fellow Catholics like you guys tear them down when they come home.

    The social cost is fairly high, unlike being able to say you volunteered while you were looking for jobs or announcing that you plan to volunteer in the future, which carries no social cost at all and quite a few social benefits.

    In the end, there’s no need to try to rank people who need help and outdo each other in our preferences, whether it’s women and children, handicapped people, or refugees.

  • nicole

    You know i (used to) attend the march for life and i consider myself pro-life that is i am anti-abortion and pro-ALL-life. Honestly getting yelled at by counter protesters is no big deal.

    And yes there are people who do awesome work for the unborn BUT there is also the big mass the sort of people who show up for the march and call it good. That is simply easy. You know if i were totally wrong you and all the other commenters would not get this offended.

    So far we had getting yelled at as a social cost, which i find really cheap. Honestly, i’m an open pro-life person surrounded by only atheists and i cannot say what it costs me. What does being pro-life cost you? Being anti-racist at least got me kicked out of a bus, local bakery and a church youth group. So what concrete social coste have you had to pay for being pro-life?

    The unborn are the easiest part of humanity to defend they haven’t done anything wrong yet. Try and defend the dignity of inmate once, way less fun.

    This is a silly example but maybe it works to highlight my point. I have a few friends who are defenders of digital freedom and free software. The costs for them include: not being able to use any proprietars software (windows, MAC OS X, office, most games, photoshop, etc), no social media, etc… Some of them even turned down jobs in order not to violate their principles.
    For most people (not all) what are the concrete impacts of being pro-life in their daily lifes?

    And you still did not answer my question about what you are doing for life? Other than getting easily triggered online.

  • nicole

    Please see my last answer to DC. I don’t like wasting to much time arguing on the internet so one answer has to be enough for all.

  • nicole

    Please see my last answer to DC. It should answer this comment as well

  • Nikolai

    I mean, you are taking the time to type out a comment, so that’s time wasted anyway. But besides, I just proved your original point wrong. It’s not “easy” and not about feeling “morally superior”. Being spit upon doesn’t make me feel good, Nicole. But I suffer it because of the good things which might be accomplished. So again, no, I’m not prolife because it’s easy.

  • DC

    No, I said don’t judge it by your interactions with anonymous Twitter trolls. Go out into the real world. Maybe even volunteer at a CPC.

  • DC

    No honey, you launched into this conversation to declare that a movement of helping women and children in the real world and effecting legal change at the state and federal level is ‘easy’ – having to prove that your preferred methods of activism, which honestly just sounds like you worked some internships or odd volunteer gigs between jobs and aren’t actually doing anything now. Oh, and you got in a fight with your youth group. Fantastic. Who is this really helping? Why are you telling us this except that it’s about your ego and not the prolife movement at all?

    I’m sorry that your parents dragged you to a march for life which you apparently got nothing out of. I would suggest volunteering with actual prolifers. Or don’t – you don’t have to. But don’t air your ignorance or posture like this anymore, okay?

    Again, it’s not a pissing contest. No one is loudly announcing that your preferred charities are useless.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I literally gave you an example of one of my real, offline experiences with someone from a CPC and you said I wasn’t allowed to use that.

  • DC

    You talked to one person who apparently was critical of food stamps. Go volunteer.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I gave you one example, and I stated there were others.

    Would you like others?

    Actually, let me give you another.

    Before the one example I gave you, I made friends with very pro-life young lady who was very involved in all manner of pro-life activities (the pro-life club on campus, 40 days for life, etc).

    She also believed that all government funding to assist everyone should be dismantled.

    I told her that without government assistance, I wouldn’t be able to get by then as a poor student in school who had a variety of health issues, to say nothing of if I got pregnant. If I got pregnant, I would need more assistance, not less. I would need to keep my assistance with healthcare, I would need help food, I would need help with rent, I would probably lose the ability to attend school (my income source, both in that I got student loans and in that I was a student worker, dependent on my being a student).

    Her response was that I should get my family to help if I got pregnant.

    I told her that my family could not provide that kind of additional support, and I had known this for years. My family was poor and getting by as is was difficult. Her family, being richer than mine, might be able to provide her with support, mine could not.

    Her response remained that my family should provide support, period. Government support was wrong.

    And she was my friend. She was someone who was at least somewhat emotionally invested in me. But my position didn’t move her, to say nothing of the position of strangers.

    Do you want another one? Because I limited what I said not because there was only one example, but because I assumed you didn’t want to read a book. We can keep going with my offline experiences of pro-lifers wanting to cut support.

  • DC

    I didn’t ask for more examples of how terrible the people you know are. I said get out and get involved. The prolife movement nationwide has nothing to do with your friends and their views of foodstamps. You said the prolife movement only exists because it’s “easy” – now it’s terrible because you don’t see eye to eye on specific welfare programs with people you know.This is not pertinent. This is a provincial attitude.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    Lord.

    I never said the pro-life movement only exists because it’s easy. If someone said that, it wasn’t me, and you’re confusing me with someone else. I wish you would at least check what I said before ascribing things to me that I did not say.

    I said that, while I had initially believed that the pro-life movement was concerned with protecting the life of the unborn, my experiences with the pro-life movement had changed my mind. I also said that I felt that any negative reputation the pro-life movement had, it had earned. And I’m sorry, but I think that the pro-life movement advocating for cutting social safety programs that pregnant people and parents rely on in order to complete pregnancies and raise their children is in fact pertinent to how people view the pro-life movement. If all the pro-life movement wants to do is outlaw abortion, and they don’t care about anything else (lack of prenatal care, lack of access to food, lack of access to housing, etc), then people get to judge the pro-life movement based on that. They get to think the pro-life movement is crap.

    And if you don’t care about my experiences are with the pro-life movement (including my offline experiences), that’s fine. I do in fact care about them. I’m going to form my judgments around them. If you think I should form my judgments around something else, I’ve already asked what that might be.

  • DC

    >I’ve already asked what that might be.

    Getting out and joining it!

    The fact is that no one in the politically active arm of the prolife movement is pushing for reductions in food stamps so your individual political arguments aren’t really pertinent, that’s what I’m trying to say. And where I live, prolifers actively refer people for services. I’m sure this comes out in the wash, and no one in the political lobby arm of the movement is tied up with ‘fighting foodstamps’.

    I’m sorry I goofed you up with someone else on the statement of it being easy.

    Take care. I hope my negative reaction here hasn’t colored your opinion too much – it’s just frustrating to see a whole movement dismissed like this.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I’ve had years of experience offline with the pro-life movement in my area, and you are telling me I’m not allowed to use the experiences I’ve had with them. Instead, I must volunteer because this would…do what differently than I’ve already done? I already know the pro-life movement in my area. Maybe if I moved to your area and volunteered there, my experience would be different, but I don’t see how having more of the same interactions that I’ve already had would be helpful. I know all about the CPC in my home town, the people there, and what the CPC offers. I went to the pro-life club meetings when I was in undergraduate. If I did more of this, I would just get more experiences that you, as per your words, don’t want to hear about.

    And if we’re changing from my offline experiences to the politics, who in the government advocates for services? The pro-choice politicians, or the pro-life ones? Who advocates for expansions in food stamps, WIC, TANF, medical aid, etc? The pro-life people in government, or the pro-choice? I know what I see, both in my state and nationally. There was a period of absolute terror in my state when the “pro-life” politicians got more power than usual some years ago, and everyone was petrified that they would be able dismantle our state’s medical program for low income people. Pro-choice politicians managed to keep this from happening, but people were freaking out for a while.

    Are all pro-lifers like this? No. I said that already, and maybe in your area things are generally better. I certainly hope so. But in my area that’s not how it is, and that’s not what I see reflected nationally.

    Make no mistake, though: this isn’t the way I want it to be. I want the pro-life movement to be reflective of those who advocate for healthcare, access to food, support for housing assistance, etc. I know there are pro-lifers out there who support those things, and I want them to be the ones in control of the movement. But they aren’t. They’re struggling against not only abortion but also people who claim to care about the unborn while simultaneously working to cut funding for prenatal care.

  • DC

    One, the prolife activist and lobbyist arm of the movement is not advocating against these services. So for one, stop acting like they do. They aren’t “struggling against” these things.

    Two, the prolife political action arm doesn’t need to expend time and money advocating for SNAP and any other benefits you utilize and/or like. They have one job and they are currently doing it very well.

    You can choose to admire, prefer, and vote for pro-choice Democrats because you prioritize or use things like SNAP, but that’s absolutely no reason to needlessly malign the prolife movement.

    And it’s especially unnecessary considering the charitable arm of the prolife movement does help women and children extensively after the baby is born over and above the minimum government services.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I told you, over and over again, what I’ve seen the pro-life movement do, in person, in my state, and nationally. If you don’t think I should care, that can be your position. If you think I shouldn’t mind the same group that pushes for abortion bans in the name of the unborn also pushes for removal of access to prenatal services for the poor because it’s not their “one job” to allow the poor to have access to prenatal services, fine. You can form your own opinions, both about the pro-life movement and about my opinions.

    But I do actually get to form opinions about the pro-life movement based on its actions. I see what the pro-life movement does in my area, in my state, and nationally. If I think it’s crap for a group to say they care about the unborn and then fight against poor people having access to prenatal care, I get to think that. And I get to say I think that.

    You don’t have to want to change my mind. You can think I’m just wrong and say “to hell with what she thinks.” But if you want to change my mind about the pro-life movement, you need to get the pro-life movement to stop doing this. You can say they don’t, but I see it happening in real life and real time. If it was just happening in my area (if I didn’t see it in my state and nationally), I could be convinced that my area was an anomaly. But I see what happens outside my local area, and even you apparently think it’s not the job of the pro-life movement to advocate for the unborn outside of abortion bans (“They have one job and they are currently doing it very well.”). And you can think that, but I think that’s crap, and it won’t improve my view of the pro-life movement.

  • DC

    When have you seen the state or national prolife advocacy movement do these things?

    “pushes for removal of access to prenatal services” – when? Who? First I’ve heard this.

    Wait, are you talking about Planned Parenthood? Good Lord, really?

    Anyway, you’re basing this on, as far as you’ve said here, a conversation with a woman at a CPC who didn’t like food stamps. I also suspect you’re more pro-choice than you let on.

    Once again, you guys need to stay in your lane if you’re not on board with helping the unborn. Decide which side you’re on.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    “I also suspect you’re more pro-choice than you let on.
    Once again, you guys need to stay in your lane if you’re not on board with helping the unborn. Decide which side you’re on.”

    One may note that a significant contribution to Eris’s low view of the pro-life movement is the prevalence of folks being excommunicated from the PLM for reasons of perceived ideological impurity.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    Perhaps people should make their charity towards new parents many times more visible in public life to compensate if it is difficult to see. One should note that if the statistics showing a majority of non-opposition to abortion among catholics globally is to be trusted:

    https://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Millenials-Abortion-and-Religion-Survey-Report.pdf
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12178931
    http://theconversation.com/facing-a-groundswell-of-support-for-legal-abortion-argentinas-catholic-church-moderates-its-tone-101149

    Then Duffy, Shea, Pezzulo and Weiss are reporting how a majority of younger catholics and a global majority of catholics view the modern american pro-life movement’s desire for abortion restrictions.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    You…aren’t aware of almost the entire Republican party across the whole of the nation pushing for cuts to almost all government programs (healthcare, SNAP, etc) while pushing for abortion bans? I mean, I can give you examples from my state or National* but if you’ve never heard of this, I’m amazed.

    *Like this one, where abortion-ban-pushing-pro-life Republicans went for allowing insurance companies to opt out of providing material healthcare: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/27/trump-healthcare-bill-pregnant-women-maternity-coverage

    These people get elected on touting their pro-life credentials. They garner votes based on being members of and leaders of the pro-life movement. They insist that you’d better not vote for those “baby-murdering” Democrats. And then they turn around and pull stunts like the above. And who gets mad? Not their fellow abortion-ban-pushing-pro-life Republicans, who cast themselves as pro-life movement paragons to get elected.

  • DC

    It’s possible you missed that she launched her whole condemnation of the pro-life movement precisely for ideological impurity: not supporting food stamps, I guess, was the gist of it, or she also seems to imagine they lobby against government welfare agencies:

    ‘I used to think that the “pro-life movement” was one concerned with protecting life before birth. I don’t anymore. Now I think the “pro-life movement” is interested in destroying social safety nets and causing those who get pregnant to when they aren’t “supposed to” suffer as a precautionary tale. Are there exceptions, pro-life people who really do care about pregnant people and babies? Yes, absolutely and without question. Is this reflective of the “pro-life movement?” No.’

    Can anyone sincerely think this though? The politically active arm is not at all lobbying against social welfare. And the humanitarian arm of the “PLM” is actively engaged in caring for women and children after birth, setting them up with services they need and spending 90% of their time engaging in charity work to fill the gaps those state social services don’t fill.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    Well,
    1: criticism of a pro-life movement that includes, as members, folks that petition against accepting refugees from south america and the middle east is not really a desire for ideological purity, but a protest against naked hypocracy.

    2: Considering how many pregnant folks are still desperate for support, its doubtful that the PLM contributes as much as you tell us.

  • Cbalducc

    The vast majority of American Catholics have never heard of any of the bloggers at Patheos, the good and bad ones alike. Nor do they pay attention to any kind of Catholic media.

  • DC

    I’m not sure what you’re arguing: people should be louder and more prominent in their charity so that you guys in the comment box can’t avoid seeing it? No offense, but you’re not that….important?

    Duffy, Shea, Pezzulo and Weiss are trying to squeak out a click-income by being contrarian about everything and poisoning the well against any success we might have.

    If the prolife movement wins on any front, they lose. They took a bad bet in 2015-16, and they’ll just keep doubling down.

  • DC

    Why do you confuse the GOP with the pro-life movement? This isn’t hard and you are smarter than this.

    So let’s say I attack the USCCB’s position on migrants but then start going on about the Democrat Party and its pro-choice position. You would say…what? That the USCCB and the Democrats aren’t the same thing? And these aren’t the same subjects? And you’d be right.

    Also, it’s a side topic, but the idea you guys have that the GOP “across the nation” is “cutting every government program” is just kinda goofy. In fact I can’t really think of one nationwide proposal on the table at the moment.

  • DC

    These people can’t be bothered to defend their pharasiacal condemnation of other people while lifting themselves up for doing the noble work of tearing down people in obscure blogs. How do you expect them to understand volunteering?

  • DC

    FFS. The prolife movement doesn’t take a stand on the migrant issue. You guys really need to get out of the house more and meet real people.

    Maybe if your compatriots on the left weren’t constantly trying to shut down Crisis Pregnancy Centers and cut off our funding, we could help more women. Put your money where your mouth is and tell your pro-choice friends to lay off.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I’m not confusing the GOP with the pro-live movement, I’m saying the GOP is part of the pro-life movement. Do you disagree with this statement?

    The Democratic Party isn’t part of the Catholic Church. Some Democrats are Catholic, but the Democratic Party isn’t a part of the Catholic Church. They are 100% separate. The “one job” of the Catholic Church “is the eternal salvation of [people].”* Clearly any political party and the Catholic Church are going to have different aims.

    *https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2014/08/22/the-churchs-essential-and-ultimate-mission/

    If you want to say the GOP isn’t part of the pro-life movement, I’m going to be very interested to see who you think makes up the pro-life movement, considering that you think the pro-life movement’s “one job” is to outlaw abortion. If the pro-life movement’s “one job” is to outlaw abortion but for some reason you’ve ejected everyone who has anything to do with making laws from the pro-life movement, how can the pro-life movement accomplish it’s goals? I could see how you could eject the GOP from the pro-life movement if you felt the pro-life movement should focus on something other than abortion bans (I would think you were wrong and they are still a significant part of the pro-life movement, but I could understand the position), but that’s not your position. Your position is that the pro-life movement’s “one job” is banning abortion. That necessitates inclusion within the pro-life movement of a government arm. But if you think the GOP isn’t part of the pro-life movement, then I guess neither party is part of the pro-life movement (obviously the Democratic party is not), which makes things interesting.

    As to your aside, I didn’t say that the GOP “across the nation” is “cutting every government program”, so I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t agree with that position that you posted. For example, Republicans tend to be very excited about expanding the military. If you don’t like the statement that you (not I) made, I can’t help you.

  • DC

    No, I wouldn’t say the GOP is completely congruous with the prolife movement; the GOP is a party with its own list of goals. It is currently the one working with the prolife movement. There’s certainly prochoice Republicans; likely more than there are prolife Democrats, unfortunately.

    This is analogous to saying the Democrats aren’t the same as NARAL and Planned Parenthood, despite the overlap.

    What this means is I can’t point to, say, Hillary’s position that we should launch a Syria War (it was in her 2016 platform), and say that pro-choicers want unjust war.

    If I said “Planned Parenthood wants war in the Middle East forever,” would that be fair? Or even sensible?

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    “FFS. The prolife movement doesn’t take a stand on the migrant issue. You guys really need to get out of the house more and meet real people.”

    Your homeboy in the white-house sure does, and it wasn’t us that elected him.

  • DC

    I’m going to guess more than a few of you here have uttered “Trump isn’t pro-life” and yet also wish to intentionally confuse Trump with the prolife action movement.

    At any rate, given our successes:
    – state by state bans
    – a friendlier constitutionalist Court
    – the best job market in fifty years, especially for lower income and minorities who disproportionately seek abortions
    – conscience clauses for prolife healthcare workers
    and yet contrary to your fearmongering, welfare programs are still in place and stand to be better funded than ever

    I think we’re doing pretty well.

    “Your homegirl” would’ve worked against literally all of this, even the last item given the poorer job market and lower revenue she would have produced.

    In prolife terms, you self-ejected from the winning side and chose the losing side. You can still come back. It’s also your prerogative to choose other issues over abortion, like the list you and others have mentioned here which don’t help pregnant women.

    In that case you can stay in your lane and stop poisoning the well. Your call.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    I didn’t say the GOP was completely congruous with the pro-life movement, so I don’t know what you are talking about. You didn’t say it, I didn’t say it, so why you brought it up, I don’t know.

    Planned Parenthood doesn’t have a mission statement that involves war in the middle east, nor does it take action that involves war in the middle east. The Republican party has a mission statement that involves abortion (it’s party platform), takes action involving abortion (crafting legislation, voting, appointing judges), and this is literally their job as demanded by the pro-life movement. The “one job” you say the pro-life movement is crafted accomplish. If Planned Parenthood had a mission statement that had to with war in the middle east, took action regarding the middle east, and had a massive supporter base who supported them either wholly or largely because of a “one job” of war in the middle east, you bet your butt I think it would be sensible and fair to talk about Planned Parenthood in relation to war in the middle east.

  • Joslyn Renfrey

    “- the best job market in fifty years, especially for lower income and minorities”

    1: you can’t just parrot trump word-for-word and expect it to be correct, that’s not how it works:
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4244715-median-household-income-january-2019
    The median income growth of american households dropped sharply when the Obama admin transitioned to the Trump admin, even becoming negative during Trump’s first year, the general trend of increase in income is not Trump’s doing, and that such growth was in spite of, not because of trump’s presidency.

    https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-african-american-income-20170915-story.html
    Indeed, black household incomes have not been able to recover to 2000 levels like white households have.

    https://thinkprogress.org/doj-transgender-employment-discrimination-a2e4aa061387/
    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/federal-civil-rights-law-doesn-t-protect-transgender-workers-justice-n808126
    Indeed, removing workplace discrimination protections for people like me will make it harder for our minority to find work.

    “- and yet contrary to your fearmongering, welfare programs are still in place and stand to be better funded than ever”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4YyYAY9U0
    2. Taking food stamps away from hundreds of thousands does not count as welfare.

  • DC

    I said the prolife movement isn’t pushing to end a single social welfare program (except tax-funded abortions).

    You said: “You…aren’t aware of almost the entire Republican party across the whole of the nation pushing for cuts to almost all government programs?”

    I’m responding to this conflation of the GOP (or at least your inaccurate Democrat-based perception of it – I don’t think they’re actually shutting down programs at the moment) and the prolife movement.

    The prolife movement is to the GOP what Planned Parenthood is to the DNC: a political lobby which found an ally in a party.

    It’s as stupid to attack the prolife movement for whatever your beef is with the GOP as it is to attack PP for anyone’s beef with the DNC.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    If you can find me a Democratic platform calling for war in the middle east forever, just as there are multiple Republican pro-life platforms, we can talk.

  • DC

    tl;dr this is your analogy, honey, not mine.

    Stop going on about Trump when you criticize prolifers.

  • Eris, elder daughter of Nyx

    tl;dr this is your analogy, honey, not mine.

    Um, it literally isn’t? YOU came up with the analogy.

    DC 6 days ago
    No, I wouldn’t say the GOP is completely congruous with the prolife movement; the GOP is a party with its own list of goals. It is currently the one working with the prolife movement. There’s certainly prochoice Republicans; likely more than there are prolife Democrats, unfortunately.

    This is analogous to saying the Democrats aren’t the same as NARAL and Planned Parenthood, despite the overlap.

    What this means is I can’t point to, say, Hillary’s position that we should launch a Syria War (it was in her 2016 platform), and say that pro-choicers want unjust war.

    If I said “Planned Parenthood wants war in the Middle East forever,” would that be fair? Or even sensible?

    Seriously, what the heck? First you confuse someone else’s argument with one I made (reasonably understandable), then you change the literal words that I used, then you confuse YOUR argument with one I made? If you aren’t able to keep track of the arguments you made and the ones I made, I don’t even know how to proceed. You made that analogy and I didn’t like it. Then saying that it’s my fault I have to deal with because I made it (?!) is so wild.

    Stop going on about Trump when you criticize prolifers.

    I’ll stop criticizing the actions of pro-lifers when they stop engaging in them. This is, in fact, my point.