For any of you who haven’t been reading the threads on the census, a challenge that I set to See Noevo to answer, I would like to update you on what he has delivered by way of riposte:
For longtime readers here, you might be surprised to learn that JohnM has returned to the fray. This creationist commenter was pwned on a number of occasions, and has taken serious flak from Andy Schueler amongst others.
He joined in on the thread with a number of scattergun explosions – check it out. These amounted to not understanding the problem, misattributing quotes and not understanding what a client kingdom is. He also trotted out arguments on which he had been previously debunked years ago showing that memories are poor and creationists and apologists are stubborn and used a number of false historical equivalences/analogies.
Anyway, the challenge still stands, undefeated.
Here is my challenge in the form of statements that he has to address:
- A client kingdom has never been taxed directly or had such censuses in the history of the Roman Empire.
- When Herod was alive it was a client kingdom.
- When he died, his son took over for 10 years, made a mess, and Romans took back direct control.
- When they did, they held a census for tax reasons due to having a newly added directly ruled region.
- There is no example in the history of censuses in the entire world of people returning to their ancestral home.
- There is no need for anyone to return to their ancestral home for reasons of tax since this defeat the entire reason for having a census for tax purposes. People would necessarily move out of tax regions to other areas and so you would have no idea of the taxable value of a given region.
- One Egyptian census required ITINERANT/MIGRANT workers to return to their ACTUAL homes for reasons of tax pragmatism. This is in no way analogous to the Lukan census. Going back to my actual home is different to going back to where an ancestor lived 41 generations past, no matter where it was.
- The Lukan census required Joseph to return to his ancestral home of 41 generations past, no more, no less.
- This would have been impossible and utterly arbitrary for everyone to know their 41 generations past ancestors (I don’t know 3 past).
- This would also mean the whole of Judea could connect themselves to David.
- Not one single human being in the world of apologetics, or the world, has provided a reason, let alone a good one, why people should return to their ancestral homes for a tax census (let alone at 41 generations past).
- There would be a month where virtually no one would be able to work. Who would be looking after households as the whole country moved around to their ancestral homes? This would be economic suicide thus negating the whole point of a tax census, losing Romans valuable taxable money.
- Women were not required at censuses.
- Bethlehem is a different tax area to Nazareth.
I could go on. You get the idea.
Just answer each of them so that the Lukan account of the census is the most probable theory of claim of reality. I would like us to stay on this topic and this one alone until you show me why this claim is at all reasonable.