As I sure you are all aware, Twitter is the best place to have a debate concerning biblical historicity and epistemology. It really lends itself, as a platform, to robust debates that can bring into play the best arguments and the most robust defences, together with top sources. I really don’t so Twitter very much.
Here is an example of a rare foray into Twitter debating. Get stuck in if you care to:
I think you find after their experience of seeing Jesus after his resurection they became ardent believers to the point of refusing to recant even in the face of torture and eventually death.
— Dr Phil Jones (@JonezPhil) March 30, 2021
1) how many people did this?
2) what is your evidence for this?
3) is there any evidence of other people doing this for a mutually exclusive worldview [i.e. one that is not true as far as you are concerned]?— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 30, 2021
You've done the research, you know how many did this. Jesus appeared to over 500 in one instance and 120 burst out into the streets to declare it on the day of Pentecost for starters. But you know this already.
— Dr Phil Jones (@JonezPhil) March 31, 2021
Can you give me the entire body of evidence to support the appearance to the 500? How do we know this is true?
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
It would be more than 500 because women and children were not counted. You need to read the undisputed Paul's letters.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
This is hilarious. Firstly, I dispute Paul's letters. I would like you to document the entirety of the evidence to support a resurrected Godman appearing over 500 people.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
Why do you dispute Paul's authentic letters?
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
The 500 witnesses claim is in the undisputed letter. It's possible that Paul used secretaries. Paul traveled with companions. He could have given them directions and asked them to write the letter.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
So you admit modal in probabilities. If I indisputably write you a letter now from within my cult a cult detailing a resurrected man-God figure appearing to 500 people 30 years ago, you'd believe me, right? Especially if you were unable to verify it, right?
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
Disputed doesn't mean that a letter is not authentic. I'm not impressed with the "I don't accept supernatural explanations" point, then you are obliged to provide a naturalistic explanation, and there isn't any.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
He lied, or provided false information. That was easy. Oh, and far more probable. Happens all the time. You don't believe the miracle claims of Sathya Sai Baba, and his miracles are far better attested.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
But, I ask you again, can you document the entirety of the evidence supporting a claim about a supernatural resurrection of a Godman who appeared to over 500 people?
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
There is an authentic and written testimony from a solid witness. This is a good as it gets. This type of testimony usually results in a conviction in the court, i.e. it's beyond a reasonable doubt.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
It is literally not as good as it gets. By a country mile. The claims are unverified and unverifiable. From someone with an ex post facto evangelizing agenda. It is literally the worst evidence for a supernatural claim.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
Paul wasn't a believer and he had no agenda. His education was probably equivalent to today's PhD. Paul was more than a sceptic, he persecuted believers.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) March 31, 2021
He wasn't a Christian when he wrote those letters?
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
Either being dishonest or being fooled himself or genuinely misinterpreting real data are all far more probable than the Christian thesis.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
You are aware of the entirety of the documented evidence for the 500 the appearance? "Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep" (1 Corinthians 15:6) That's it, there.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
The reason I keep asking both of you to document the entirety of the evidence for the appearance of the 500 is that there is essentially no evidence. There is one line in one letter written by Paul. If this was any other religion, you would laugh it out of the office.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
Do you understand that anyone could have verified the information provided by Paul and that this would end his ministry if he weren't telling the truth? Paul says go check yourself, there are people still alive, talk to them if you don't believe me.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
Did anyone verify it? Could someone living in Corinth easily verify it? Did any Corinthians verify those claims?
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
Are you saying that Paul was foolish enough to expose himself to fraud by providing easily testable claims?
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
Just calm yourself down and think that all other religions are false to you and yet they are all based on miracle claims that you deem as false (either lies, misinformation, disinformation or misinterpretations of data). I just add your one to the list.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
Historians are certain that Paul wrote:
First Thessalonians (c. 50 AD)
Galatians (c. 53)
First Corinthians (c. 53–54)
Philippians (c. 55)
Philemon (c. 57-59)
Second Corinthians (c. 55–56)
Romans (c. 57)These are historical letters, and you did not establish that Paul lied.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
Non sequitur. Also, you don't understand what I said. This is a Bayesian probability analysis. Lying or misinterpreting data or received misinformation or received disinformation are all far far more probable than a resurrected mangod appearing to 500, none of whom attest it.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
No bona fide historian believes that Paul was a liar, not even the agnostic Bart Ehrman.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
Either being dishonest or being fooled himself or genuinely misinterpreting real data are all far more probable than the Christian thesis.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
READ MY WORDS. I GAVE YOU FOUR OPTIONS AHEAD OF SUPERNATURALISM FFS.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
You don't understand Bayesian probability. Read what WLC or Richard Swinburne have to say on this subject w.r.t. resurrection.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
I've literally just written a book on a Bayesian analysis of the resurrection.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
This doesn't mean that you understand it. Read the resources which I mentioned.
— Les (@LesSzklanny) April 1, 2021
Says the man who was unable to understand my tweets…
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) April 1, 2021
Blah blah blah. You get the point. These types of Christians argue with such unfounded surety that their beliefs are built on firm foundations. Yet what we have here is someone who exudes Christian exceptionalism and who thinks the appearance to the 500 is an undisputed fact because…Paul. The epistemological stance here is completely untenable.
I kept demanding the entirety of evidence for the appearance to the 500-plus because this is the entirety of said evidence:
“3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters[c] at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. ”
Annnnd, that’s it. That is literally the entirety.
I get frustrated:
Dude, you really need to reassess your epistemology. Honestly.
— Jonathan MS Pearce (@ATipplingPhilo) March 31, 2021
It’s the surefire belief that Paul undisputedly wrote some letters, so these letters must contain truth, and thus the appearance claims (barely skimmed over in assertion) must be true.
Happy Easter everyone; this is what the level of belief is in your probably sadly above-average Christian.
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