Well, for years I went to a spiritual director, a Sister of Notre Dame, and we met at the Dominican center where she worked; from the beginning, I would bring her a problem I wanted her to help me solve, and she would not give me answers. We would just sit in it, and she would ask me where God was found in this particular thing. And it's extraordinary how many problems sorted themselves out on their own. But it became a really powerful thing like, slow down, breathe deeply, look, watch, listen—where is God in this and what are you being taught and what is being asked of you? It will be both incredibly comforting and challenging and it will be provocative and it will be healing.
So I think there's a sort of leap that people make at some point where you just become interested in different things. The terror of being right and getting it right or being properly understood isn't interesting anymore. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean that beliefs and convictions, and your brain and doctrines aren't crucial and important; what you believe does matter, and how you think about things does matter. And, when you talk with 16-year-old girls who are cutting themselves, and you find out that they believe really horrible things about themselves, beliefs do matter. Part of the move to contemplation and to experience, for some people, is the reaction against beliefs that weren't life-giving. To say, "it's not about beliefs," well, that is a belief statement. So to me this isn't about a pendulum swing of "well, we used to be all about doctrine and now we're not." No, this is just about the proper integration of all of the ways that we are oriented in a healthy manner around our thriving in the world.
You're clearly a source of inspiration for many, many people, including myself. Where do you go for inspiration? Who and what inspires you right now?
Besides trying to surf every day?
Yeah, I'm going to ask you about that in a minute. What's particularly life-giving for you right now?
Boy, where do I start? To be honest, my family and my kids; my wife is very inspiring to me. I'm continually amazed by her. I love all the things that my kids are coming up with, because they're at very, very different stages and they never stop making me laugh. Now that I'm on the road, my kids are sending me texts and videos. I do try to get in the ocean every day and then I'm always hunting stuff down. So I'll get on to like onto architecture, and I'll start reading Louis Kahn and I'll discover whatever. So I'll get into something and I'll inhale a bunch of stuff on it, or I'll go on a Bob Dylan kick or I'll go onto things I know nothing about and I'll begin to identify patterns.
(Rob steals a piece of bacon off my plate as I move it off the table...)
Noted for the interview: do not let bacon leave the table! May I have your bacon, please?
Yes, you may. So, you're one of those web surfers who gets started on something and then follows the trail?
I actually don't do much online. Generally it's books. I'll be at a friend's house and see a book and ask if I can borrow it. I'll read about Van Gogh, or there's a psychologist in L.A. who's written a series of books on parenting from a Jewish perspective. I also find people extremely interesting. So when I meet people I find interesting, I ask them what they're up to, and what they do with their time, and if they give me answers of like they do whatever, and I have no idea what that means . . . to me that does not shut down things.
So tell me about surfing. A lot of surfers talk about their sport in very spiritual terms. What does surfing teach you about yourself, God, and life?
See, surfers all agree that you can only say so much and then you just have to stop.
If you get into big waves, then it's just fear. A friend and I the other day were out in ten-foot waves, and at this particular break if you get stuck and you fall and get stuck on the inside you get pounded, you just get held under, and you get spin-cycled and you lose all sense of up and down—it's just brutal... and awesome.
We were surfing the other night at sunset and the only light was from the sun, which was just dropping below the horizon, and I dropped in on one wave and the wave was essentially between me and the horizon so it just went dark. So it's big and loud and dark, and it's so peaceful. Where else do you travel across the surface of the earth on an orbital pattern of undulating water?
(laughter)
And you have to adjust to what the ocean is doing, so it's fundamentally humbling. It's bigger and stronger than you and the waves will come when they want, and you have dolphins swimming under you and a whale goes by and sometimes pelicans will buzz your head. In one place where I surf a lot, you're a couple hundred yards from shore and there's nothing really man-made around. There's a cliff that comes down where you paddle out. It connects you in some way. It's awesome, you're on top of the world.
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