Devotee of Dionysos: An Interview with Sannion, Part One

"Like" the Patheos Pagan Page on Facebook to receive today's best commentary on Pagan issues. The Holy Powers are on the move and nowhere is that more evident, at least to me, than in the outpouring of devotional work that has graced our various polytheistic communities over the past couple of years. People are being swept up and swept away in love and sometimes ecstatic devotion to their Gods and this is a very good thing, a joyous thing to see. It is not, however, a new thing. Our Gods have been doing this to one degree or another for as long as we have had records of religious practice, and amongst the Greeks one God in particular stands out as the arbiter of this divine ecstasy: Dionysos. An awareness of Dionysos and His mysteries has graced my life since the beginning of my active awareness as a Pagan. One of the first initiatory rites I had the honor of witnessing was that of a young woman, an artist, dedicating herself to this God. After that, every few years, I would encounter someone who in some way had tasted of the sweetness that is His to offer. Eventually I began to pay attention. Owned by Odin as I am, Who carries His own brand of ecstasy, I could well understand how easy it is for such a God to twine His way into one's heart. I learned much about how to navigate the intensity of devotion my own God evokes from reading and interacting with devotees of Dionysus. For that I am grateful. I was also very lucky, about a year and a half ago, to have discovered the work of Sannion. Sannion is a devotee (that hardly seems a strong enough word) of Dionysos, a diviner, a poet, and one who carries this God's wisdom to our mad and disconnected world. His recent book Ecstatic is a sizeable compilation of articles, essays, prayers, and poems about this God that he loves so well. It is a phenomenal and comprehensive book and upon reading it, I could hardly wait to interview him. This interview was conducted via email on July 14, 2011. Tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you come to Paganism (if you prefer a different word, let me know). Well, I suppose the best way to describe myself is as a Classical Polytheist and Dionysian who lives in the Pacific Northwest. I serve my god as an oracular priest and am a prolific author, having just released my fifth book through Nysa Press. I like spiders and I'm learning Italian. There's not a whole lot else to say, but I guess if you want to find out more about me you could always visit my blog and website at thehouseofvines.com. As for the second part of your question—like most polytheists today I began my spiritual life in a totally different religion before eventually finding my way to Dionysos and the other gods. My family moved around a lot in my youth, so I was exposed to pretty much every form of Christianity imaginable, as we attended whatever church was close by (often the only church in the small, rural towns we tended to settle in). Eventually I came to have serious misgivings about some of the core tenets of Christianity, which led me to look elsewhere for divine truth. On top of that, in late adolescence I had a series of encounters with a strange, earthy, sensual, masculine figure—dreams, visions, and related phenomena—the memory of which haunted me through my early teen years. I chased his shadow through a variety of different religions and philosophical systems before coming to realize his true identity as Dionysos. Wishing to learn everything that I could about his nature, history, and preferred forms of worship I began an extensive phase of research on all aspects of ancient Greek culture and religion. Eventually I discovered that I wasn't alone in my love of antiquity and desire to see this religion revived when I encountered a thriving community of Hellenic Reconstructionists online. I spent the next few years active in this community, participating on the lists and forums, writing voluminously, organizing events, and founding and leading a number of different groups. Then around 2004 I had a series of powerful encounters with the Kemetic deities, which led to an interest in the fusion of cultures that took place in Hellenistic Egypt under the Ptolemies. Eventually I discovered some kindred souls and we formed a syncretic Greco-Egyptian religious group called Neos Alexandria. My time there was extremely pleasant and we had many ambitious plans, including the founding of a publishing line to bring about devotional books honoring the gods of Greece, Egypt, and neighboring lands—which is still going strong several years on! However running such a large and active group took a lot out of me, and my religious practice suffered as a consequence. So around 2009 I parted ways with Neos Alexandria to focus on my own solitary worship and writing and to put my energy into local activities to honor the gods, independent of the internet, which I think has some serious problems and actually impedes the growth of minority religious groups. And that's pretty much where I am at today. You've just written a new book about Dionysus. Tell me about that. I'm coming up on my 20 th anniversary as a dedicated Dionysian and I realized that during that time I had produced an immense body of writing concerning his ancient and contemporary worship and my own experiences with him. So to celebrate that and honor him I decided to gather it all up into a single volume since it had been scattered across a bunch of different websites, blogs, magazines, and newsletters and even some of my previous Nysa Press publications. I was quite surprised to discover just how much material I had written; it ended up being a nearly 600-page book, and that was even with a bunch of stuff left out! As far as I'm aware there really isn't anything out there quite like it. It has all kinds of stuff on history and mythology, the basics of religious practice and keeping his festivals, what having an intense relationship with him is really like as well as poetry, hymns, fiction, a play, and even a new system of divination based on his symbolism. Why Dionysus? Because I love him and everything that he represents. In your book you talk about different paths to/of Dionysos. I've also encountered this with Odin and many other Gods. Can you explain a little bit about this (and if you're comfortable doing so, touch upon your own personal path(s) to Him)? Dionysos is such an immense and complex divinity—full of paradoxes and the reconciliation of polar opposites—that it's not really surprising that there would be all these different paths leading to him and ways to relate to and understand him. But after a number of years of correspondence with fellow Dionysians in the Hellenic community I came to realize that there tend to be a lot of underlying patterns to our experiences with him and that these same core "archetypes" could be found in the mythological lore surrounding him. So I put together a rough outline of these and, judging by the feedback I've gotten since the piece was initially published, I think it's probably one of the most popular and helpful things that I've written. It shows folks that they they're not alone in what they're going through with him, that you can be a Dionysian in your own unique way instead of trying to mold yourself into this narrow, stereotyped role—i.e., the wild, drunken libertine poet or the mad-woman who's abandoned her home and family to dance in the woods and run with the wild beasts. In fact, there is room in the Dionysian throng even for people who are predominantly devoted to other gods. Realizing this can be very liberating for people, inspiring them to seek out a unique and authentic relationship with him, which is really what it's all about anyway. I could summarize the different paths here, but honestly I think it'd be best if your readers went and consulted the original article for themselves, which is available on the wildivine.org site I maintain with my partner. The version in the book is a little more polished and some minor corrections have been made, but I'm sure people will get the gist of it. As for my own personal path, that has undergone some transformation over the last couple months, along with how I predominantly view the god. This has been challenging in certain respects because I was on a very different path with him for a number of years, one that I'd grown quite accustomed and attached to, even though it was certainly challenging in its own way. That's the thing with Dionysos, however: He's always pushing and challenging you, encouraging growth and deeper kinds of liberation. He's a very fluid god, constantly in motion, and nothing ever remains the same with him. Even if you walk just one path with him you could easily spend a whole lifetime peeling back the layers and discovering depths of meaning you scarcely could have imagined when you began. My path right now seems to be that of the wine-pourer, one who dispenses the blessings of the god to his community. I do that through my writing and by answering questions that people have about him, through my oracular work and more conventional priestly duties such as hosting festivals and performing sacrifices. But there's more to it than that; I feel at times (and this is probably going to sound a little audacious but if you're doing the work you've got to own up to it) like I'm a conduit through which his blessings of fertility and madness flow into the world, that he uses me to reach out to others and help awaken them to his wonders. A lot of folks have said that they've found their way to Dionysos because of me and I think that's the highest compliment anyone could offer, but on the other hand I find it deeply humbling and a huge responsibility. You've really got to keep ego in check because there's no room for pride and arrogance in this kind of work. That'll get in the way faster than anything else. It's the god who is special, the god who is working wonders in people's lives, not you. You're just a vessel into which his wine is poured and any old cup will suffice. But there is certainly a deep satisfaction in being the best cup you can be, you know? I know you cover this in depth in your book, but I'm going to ask you anyway for the benefit of those who haven't yet read it: What advice would you give someone seeking to develop a devotional relationship to Him? Just do it! I know that may sound a little trite but it's really the only thing that works with him. Don't let your fear and insecurities get the better of you. Don't wait around until the time feels right, until you've figured everything out, until you've memorized all of the prayers and hymns, mastered the ceremonial procedures, accumulated all of the pretty tools and built up the perfect shrine for him. Because you know what? That's never going to happen! Perfection is an ideal we should aim for knowing full well that we can never truly attain it. And if you wait around until then to start you're going to miss out on a lot of wonderful things and precious opportunities along the way. Besides which you'll deprive yourself of the valuable lessons that can only be learned by monumentally screwing things up. So my advice to people is this: make mistakes—and lots of them! Pay attention while you're doing it, figure out why certain things don't work in certain situations, and try to determine why that is and what you can do to improve on that next time around. And make sure there is a next time, even if you totally screwed the pooch or you're not feeling it or getting anything out of it. Fake it till you make it. Experiment with different spiritual techniques and worship styles to see what works best for you and gets the strongest response from Dionysos. He's not going to smite you for flubbing a line or missing a step, but he will be disappointed if you never get around to trying. There are definitely some things that don't work—and he'll be sure to let you know!—but unless you persist in doing these even after he's made his preferences clear, you're not likely to incur his wrath for doing some bad ritual. Fake it till you make it. I've said the same thing about ancestor work. Just do it and keep doing it even when it feels awkward in its newness. Some additional pointers I'd offer those starting out in Dionysos worship: don't limit what you do to only what can be done in front of your home shrine. Dionysos is best worshiped outdoors in the wild places of nature, even if that means just pouring out a libation on a mountaintop or whispering a prayer to him as you stroll through a wooded park. Also leave plenty of room for spontaneous, free-flowing, emotional encounters with him. Don't spend all of your time reading off a script. Sincere, heartfelt words of praise are a thousand times better than even the most beautiful verses of Homer or Orpheus. If you can't think of anything then just string together a bunch of his standard epithets or create some of your own, commemorating past experiences with him or utilizing imagery that is meaningful for you. And above all else, you must worship the god with your whole body. Gesture, dance, sacred movement, even running around and yelling his name at the top of your lungs—this kind of physical "prayer" is what he likes best. Don't worry about being skilled and graceful or avoiding looking foolish—just throw yourself into it completely and let his spirit carry you away. Also, there should always be music in his worship. Prerecorded stuff played during ritual is fine but it's much better to have music that you make yourself. Drums, rattles, pipes, a bull-roarer or even clapping your hands and stomping your feet will suffice. Where music is he is, so make a joyful noise unto the Lord! What possible cautions? And are there any offerings that should be specifically avoided? Dionysos is a dangerous god, there's just no getting around that. He's not only the bringer of madness, but a god who is himself mad. And if that doesn't fill you with terror on some level then you're not paying enough attention! Most people don't really experience this side of him however, especially when they're just starting off. They get only the fun-loving, joyful party god come to liberate them from their cares. And that's great! We all need to let down our hair and blow off a little steam now and again. But when you start to get closer to him you'll likely discover what true liberation entails: stripping away the false layers, everything that holds you back and keeps you enslaved, all your fears and doubts and inhibitions, all the social conditioning meant to turn you into a mindless, emotionally repressed robot. Before you can truly be one of his he's going to have to reach deep inside of you and scoop out all the dirt and shit, all the trauma and delusion and unhealthy stuff that's polluting your soul. And let me tell you from personal experience, it hurts like a mother when that happens! When all that stuff starts bubbling up to the surface and you've got to confront things you've spent a lifetime avoiding, it isn't fun. It isn't fun for you and isn't going to be very fun for any of the people around you, either. Before the process is complete a lot of Dionysians end up hurting the ones they love in horrible ways and their lives often fall apart around them. Especially the ones who don't follow it through to the end. That's where the real danger lies—stopping midway. You can get caught in madness (the bad kind) and addiction, without any way of coping since those mechanisms are often the first to go. But if you stick with it and let Dionysos guide you through the purifying flames, some really awesome things can happen. But you've got to have faith and trust and love for him, an iron-willed commitment to live fully and freely, no matter the cost. I've been writing quite a bit lately on honoring ancestors. Now I know from reading your blog that you have devotional relationships to several Deities in addition to Dionysos and that you actively honor the land spirits where you live. Does ancestor veneration play any part in your spirituality right now? Dionysos, especially the form of him that I deal with most often, is a chthonic deity, the son of Persephone and lord of a portion of the souls of those beneath the earth. We see this side of him especially during Anthesteria, the Ionian flower festival when the new wine is broached, the god sleeps with the wife of the king to ensure the fertility of the land, and the dead walk among us, called up to join in the feast. But this was also a prominent aspect of Dionysos in Hellenistic Egypt where he was equated with Osiris and Dionysian iconography was frequently incorporated into funerary art. Initiates in his mysteries were promised a better lot in the afterlife, reveling eternally in the company of their Lord and enjoying an endless feast and ever-flowing wine. And hosts of spirits accompany Dionysos in his revels on earth like the Wild Hunt that follows in the wake of Odin. Therefore the dead are vitally important to me as a Dionysian, though most of the "ancestors" I honor are not related to me by blood. I have no real ties to my living family since my father vanished when I was still a child and my mom had been pretty much disowned by her parents for running off with a "Red Injun." (They even cut her out of this huge oil painting hanging in the living room—that's how extreme they were.) So I suppose it's not too surprising that I haven't really had much contact with the dead ones either. Even with that history I did make overtures to the deceased blood relations but they were pretty much unresponsive. I wonder if that will change—at least on my maternal Sicilian side—now that I'm delving into certain Italian religious traditions, but honestly I don't much care one way or another since I have a fairly strong connection to the Dionysiac dead and the Ptolemies in particular, who more than meet my needs for ancestor veneration. Of course, things are a little more complicated when it comes to the Ptolemies since they are not normal dead but possess a status somewhere between a conventional Greek hero and a full-fledged divinity, being the apotheosized Makedonian Dynasty that ruled Egypt during the Hellenistic era. Though they were worshiped as gods both posthumously and in their own lifetimes, few today even know their names and noble deeds, let alone would consider worshiping them. So with a few exceptions I've pretty much got the Ptolemies to myself, which is kind of neat when you really think about it. I have been actively engaged in their cultus for nearly half a decade now and probably have the strongest relationship with them of any of my divinities after Dionysos, Hermes, Aphrodite, and Spider. For me they are closely connected with Dionysos; in fact some of them acted as earthly vessels or avatars (to borrow the Hindu term) for him while they were alive and, if anything, their Dionysiac association has only increased in death. In addition to the standard things one does for the dead I've "horsed" them like the Haitian lwa in ritual, both alone and in concert with Dionysos. That is always an intense, strange, and exhausting experience but well worth it to give them a taste of physical existence and its pleasures once more. What has been the most surprising thing that's come of your developing devotional relationship and service to Dionysos? What aspect of your service to Him has surprised you the most? Ha! It's impossible to limit that to only one thing because really everything about Dionysos surprises you and challenges your basic assumptions. But I suppose the thing that stands out the most for me is how much he seems to like us and enjoy being around us. Most Greek gods are a little aloof, maintaining that fundamental divide between mortality and the divine. They may deign to come down from the gleaming heights of Olympos to observe the rites we carry out in their honor—and a few may have a more intimate involvement in the lives of their chosen devotees—but Dionysos gets right down in the thick of it with us, moving through our flesh in the dance and madness, throwing everything into riotous confusion and blurring all the artificial boundaries. And what's more he cares about us with an intensity that's shocking. It's always been this way, too—I mean every one of his myths that involve conflict (and there's a lot of them!) are because he's coming to the defense of his followers. You can talk trash about Dionysos all you want—even to his face like Pentheus—and he'll just laugh it off. But you threaten one of his or try to stop people from worshiping as their heart compels them—and he'll tear you apart with a ferocious and merciless savagery. You know that old saying "You mess with the bull, you get the horns"—well that's Dionysos they're talking about! Part Two of this interview can be found here.