God loves Mark Driscoll (and everyone else)

God is love. God doesn’t hate anyone. God poured his wrath on on Himself, because He loved us too make us drink that cup. Mark Driscoll needs to be reminded of that.

But, you know what?

So do I.

Sometimes I get this idea in my head that God hates all the same people I hate.

Sometimes I believe that God hates Mark Driscoll.

I won’t lie– Mark Driscoll isn’t my favorite person in the world. For one, he glorifies a part of me that I hate– the violent, angry part of me that I’ve been trying to put to death for years. For another, he puts down others and mocks them (another part of me that I hate, actually). Thirdly, the guy loves him some gender roles, and as a feminist, I just can’t stand some of the things he says about women and men. Finally, we have the same jacket– he’s totally cramping my style:

Mark Driscoll  and I would disagree on a lot of things (well, besides fashion, obviously).

But God doesn’t hate him.

God loves Mark Driscoll. God loves Mark Driscoll boundlessly and relentlessly. God loves Mark Driscoll more than a father would love his son, more than a husband would love his wife (yes, Mark is the woman in this analogy, and if he challenges me to a cage match for saying that, I accept). God loves Mark Driscoll enough to die for him.

God loves Mark Driscoll as much as God loves me.

And because, as a Christian, my job is to be Christ to the world, I need to do everything I can to love Mark Driscoll as much as God does.

I need to look beyond the angry words and the misguided comments. I need to look beyond the faux-hawk and the extremely fashionable jacket and see the human underneath. The human who cannot live without love.

Now that I’ve gotten to know Jesus and he’s changed my heart, it’s easy to love the oppressed. It’s easy to stand up for those who think they’re not loved by God and tell them otherwise. But it’s hard for me to love the oppressors. It’s hard for me to love those who would dare point a finger at another person and say, “God hates you.”

But as hard as it is, I need to love. Both the oppressed and the oppressor need to be loved into freedom.

God loves everyone. 

Even Mark Driscoll.

Do you folks ever forget that God loves everyone? Who are the hardest people for you to love? 

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  • http://www.alise-write.com Alise

    Love this. Love you.

    His comments hurt my heart, but you’re totally right. God loves Mark.

    But you look better in that jacket than Mark does. ;-D

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      They hurt my heart too, especially since I’m still trying to get past the “God hates me when I mess up” mindset that I grew up with.

  • http://facebook.com Cindy Holman

    This is good stuff. Totally agree. God loves Mark – so glad, because that means he can love me also :)

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Sometimes I also forget that God loves me. When I see how much he loves others, it’s a great reminder!

  • http://susiefinkbeiner.wordpress.com Susie Finkbeiner

    Great GREAT post! And I reminder I always need. I have a heart tattooed on the inside of my right wrist. Inside the heart is a cross. That ink is my reminder that Jesus loves me, and you, and Mark Driscoll, and oppressors/exploiters/abusers/etc. God’s love isn’t fair. God’s love is merciful. And I need to have mercy and compassion on those I fear the most and those who anger me the most.

    Thank you for this post.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      “God’s love isn’t fair. God’s love is merciful.”

      Awesome! :)

  • http://pauldebaufer.wordpress.com Paul DeBaufer

    Where do these people come up with these ridiculous notions that God hates certain people? That’s just so much heresy. And heresy is the correct word, because to say that God hates people to to misrepresent His nature. God is love. 1 John tells us explicitly twice, but the entire biblical witness supports His nature as love. Heresy is denying His nature.

    Yes, God loves Mark, no mater how wet brained he may have become. Paul ells us God loved us so much Jesus died for us while we were still His enemies. But does Mark believe this? I am sure he gives his intellectual assent, his cognitive nod, but does he truly believe it in his heart? Maybe he believes God hates him and psychologically cannot accept that in himself so he projects this hatred he feels God has for him onto others. Personally I think Mark makes a mockery out of himself with his cage fighter Jesus and his hateful God.

    Yeah, I need to get on board myself and love the heretics and promoters of a god of hate & vengeance. It’s a work in progress within me.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I have no idea where people get ideas like that from. I just can’t even fathom how anyone could claim that God would hate.

      • http://pauldebaufer.wordpress.com Paul DeBaufer

        Me either. I wonder how many people refuse Jesus/God because preachers & their followers teach that God hates.

        • Ben Thorp

          I presume that he gets the idea from the Bible. Contrary to what you might think, there _are_ verses that attribute hate to God – take Psalm 5:5 or Psalm 11:5 as 2 examples. God is frequently describe as having wrath, and vengeance; but He is also described as having love, grace, and mercy. Any attempt to limit God to one characteristic, particularly when our language limits our understanding of those things, be it hate or be it love, isn’t truly God.

          • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

            As I stated at the beginning, God loved us so much that he experienced his wrath himself so that we wouldn’t have to. We can acknowledge God’s wrath, but we must do so in light of the cross.

            So I must disagree with you still. If our God hated some of us, he would not have died for us. He would not go out of his way to draw us to him.

          • Ben Thorp

            I agree that all things must be viewed within the light of the cross. And I agree that the love of God is truly awesome. But I am curious as to how you address the scriptures that _do_ attribute hate to God. Is it merely poetic license or overemphasis?

          • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

            good question! I’ll let Greg Boyd answer that for me since he’s a lot smarter than I am: http://www.gregboyd.org/essays/essays-predestination-free-will/how-do-you-respond-to-romans-9/

  • http://tamaraoutloud.com/ Tamara

    This makes me think of what Anne Lamott says about knowing you’ve created God in your image when it turns out He hates the same people you do. :)

    This is a great reminder of truth.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Yeah, I create God in my image all too often.

  • http://homekettle.wordpress.com thescreamingkettle

    I’m still not seeing straight enough from his comments to be able to write about it coherently and with a ratio of words that aren’t profanity to words that are greater than 5:1, but I hope to sometime this week. We’ll see. Till then, thanks for this.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I wrote and erased about 3 different angry, rant posts before coming up with this one. haha. Sometimes writing and refraining from hitting the “publish” button can be soothing.

  • http://bramboniusinenglish.wordpress.com brambonius

    Like the gungor song that I love so much that I post it once in a while on facebook says:

    Atheists and Charlatans and Communists and Lesbians
    And even old Pat Robertson, oh God He loves us all
    Catholic or Protestant, Terrorist or President
    Everybody, everybody, love, love, love, love, love…

    (God is not a white man)

    MD fits somewhere in there, like all of us, from Mother Teresa to Osama Bin Laden…

    God does love so much he hates everything that destroys us, like sin. He hates it when we destroy ourselves and each other and all of creation, because he is love. You can’t see anyone whom you love suffer without getting pretty angry, so that’s where Gods wrath comes from. The more He loves, the more He’ll hate sin (and no, I don’t have that idea from Rob Bell, I got it from the church fathers and the eastern orthodox…)

    There could be a theological discussion about your line ‘ God poured his wrath on on Himself, because He loved us too make us drink that cup.’ Many theologians would say that Jesus didn’t endure the wrath of God, but the powers of evil in our place, which could not hold them, and he destroyed evil, sin, death and satan an the resurrection. Like in the narnia story when Aslan takes the place of Edmund to be killed by the witch…. But that’s a difficult discussion…

    anyway, good reminder. I was kinda irritated by MD’s latest ‘viral scandal’… I got a lot to learn

    peace

    Bram in Belgium

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Good song! It really changed my thinking when my boyfriend sent it to me in the middle of me ranting about Pat Robertson and his comments about feminism.

      “Even old Pat Robertson, love, love love.”

      Also, “The more He loves, the more He’ll hate sin”…that’s really great. Thanks for that.

  • http://timviola.wordpress.com Tim Viola

    This is an absolutely fantastic post and a big wake up call for me. I am in the same boat as you where I find Mark Driscoll very tough to love. Thank you for challenging me today!

    Much love,
    Tim

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  • http://thoughtsonbeingawake.wordpress.com Zach.Verwey

    Wow, Sarah. Thank you for this post. I happened to watch the video of Mark Driscoll’s “hate comment” a few days ago, and since then, I’ve been very bothered by it. I must admit, I agree with the idea that we cannot accept some attributes of God with acknowledging the others. However, the thought of anybody telling people that God hates them is unacceptable to me, and I think it is the very reason that the church has fallen into committing so much injustice in the past (and present, I suppose).

    My biggest concern was for people journeying on a path of faith that is still very uncertain. My beliefs have changed drastically from the ones I grew up with, and some days it’s hard to figure out exactly what I believe. So, in my case, I watched that video, and with a sinking feeling, I asked “Is he right?”

    Now, I know enough Scripture to know the answer. God has wrath, but God is love. His comparisons of Himself as Father and Bridegroom should affirm any ideas that God still loves in the end, much like a father will (or should) always love his children. For others like me though, I fear that they walk away from this video with a twisted idea of God’s feelings towards them. It brings tears to my eyes.

    It’s challenging and good for me to read this post, because God DOES love Mark Driscoll just as much as He loves you and me, and He similarly loves the people that I find it hardest to love. And I think that it is only with this mindset that we can truly learn to love those people, too. Because, as difficult as it seems sometimes, we are also called to love Mark Driscoll.

    Thank you for the reminder. And thank you for the challenge.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I had a bit of trouble thinking, “Is he right?” as well. It’s difficult to feel secure and inseparable from his love when preachers say things like that.

      • http://merechristianarchy.tumblr.com/ JJ

        I wonder what ‘The Wrath of God” actually looks it. I know I refer to this article that seriously challenged me on that point a lot, but it is a very good one. The author talks about how in our brokenness we distort “the wrath of God” and make instead into something that looks like “the wrath of Man”. I suppose I should just become Eastern Orthodox already. It is here:
        http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

  • http://fivedaysof.wordpress.com fivedaysof

    Wondeful post thanks for the reminder :D

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Thanks! Glad you liked it!

  • Al from Alba

    Hi

    I’m maybe coming at this from a different angle (not from USA) but I find that rather than fooling myself that I love everyone (‘cos I’m meant to as a Christian,and God loves everyone – which I believe He does) its actually better to admit to myself that some people are actually my enemies – I hate them.. I really do sometimes (especially in every day situations and frictions like family, work, church etc.), but the sooner I admit that to myself the better – because then I’m bound by Luke 6:27-36 to love, do good, bless, pray or them – here and now. I find praying for someone (someone who I’ve clashed with in some way)…for them to be blessed here and now in their day to day life and struggles (as well as my being honest to God in my prayer that I don’t love them – but that I know that He does – and even more amazingly that He loves the hate filled me as well) brings me closer to loving them….. but if I don’t start by admitting that I hate, it sometimes festers. God loves all the people I hate – but that shouldn’t stop me being honest with God!

    Best wishes, Al from Alba

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I agree with you. I have been working out these feelings of hate for months, so this change did not happen over night! Yes, we must first be honest with God about our short comings before we can really change them.

      thank you! Great point!

  • Bobby

    Something that’s always helped me in dealing (mostly in my thought life) with fellow Christians that I don’t agree with is to imagine myself meeting that person before I knew anything about their theology, or their youtube videos, or the blog posts about them. What if I met them in the store, or at the mall, or restaurant? Would we have struck up a friendship? Possibly? It just helps me put things in a bit more perspective when they do things I don’t agree with.

    Also, I think it’s okay to admit that, just like in a normal family, there are brothers and sisters we just aren’t that close to or like all that much. Maybe it’s like Paul and Barnabus and their (strong) disagreement on John Mark. What does God do? He sends them in two different directions to cover even more ground for Christ.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Great thoughts. You’re right- while I must love everyone, I won’t always get along perfectly with all of my brothers and sisters in Christ, and that’s okay.

  • Karen H

    I guess I’ll be the only one to say the person I find easiest to hate – right out here for the whole world to see. Ready? It’s my daughter’s ex-boyfriend. I’ve tried so hard to forgive this little punk. I’ve tried to see him through God’s eyes; I’ve prayed to see him through God’s eyes for pity sake!

    I’ll think I’ve forgiven him and might be able to rustle up an ounce or two of love for him then BAM! I’ll see his picture on Facebook or hear something about him and that old hatin’ feeling comes roaring back.

    I used to wish he wouldn’t get into his first choice college. Now I just wish he would be embarrassed really really badly – a situation of God’s choice. That’s progress, right?

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Ah, I’m sure my parents feel the same way about some of my ex boyfriends

  • http://inkindle.wordpress.com jddoug17

    Love what you. And the honesty about yourself. Me too.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Thank you. glad you liked it.

  • http://twitter.com/chellysimko Rachel Stephan Simko (@chellysimko)

    Mmk, gotta say – this is one of my favorite posts about Mark Driscoll – both for the honesty and the hilarity.

    And the jacket? Awesome.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I got it in the ladies section of Sears. Don’t know where Mark’s been shopping.

  • http://wesleyanarminian.wordpress.com Kevin Jackson

    Enjoyed the post. And thanks for the reminder not to hate Driscoll. ;)

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I need to remind myself of that on an almost daily basis.

  • Jim

    Very simply, Mark Driscoll is sick and should receive our compassion. Why does he imbue such hatred? Scripture holds the answer:

    Those who are not loving do not know God.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Agreed.

  • HC

    God also loved everyone when he drowned them without pity or regard. I would caution you to not think God’s perfect love defined the same way you would define love.

    • Chris

      Agree.

      Food for thought when considering how much God “loves” everyone (hint: God doesn’t love how you and I love, in many instances we are called to hate every false way, Proverbs 119:128 and stay away from people like Mark Driscoll).

      HIS WORDS ARE ABSOLUTE AND ALLOW NO COMPROMISE.
      Deut 4:2 Whatever He commands must be done. There can be no additions or subtractions.
      Deut 5:32 Whatever He commands must be done. No one can turn to the left or the right.
      Deut 12:32 Whatever He commands must be done. There can be no additions or subtractions.
      Joshua 1:7 Whatever He commands must be done. No one can turn to the left or the right.
      Ps 119:128 All His rules about all things are right, and every false way should be hated.
      Prov 30:5-6 Every word of God is pure, and any addition to them will make you a liar.
      Re 22:18-19 He will severely judge any man wicked enough to add or subtract from His Word.
      HIS JUDGMENT AGAINST SIN IS SEVERE.
      Gen 2:17-18 Adam and Eve and 150 billion children earned eternal hell by one bite of a fruit.
      Gen 7:21-24 He drowned and suffocated each human and animal without any pity or regard.
      Ac 12:20-24 He killed Herod and ate him with worms for saying “thanks” at the wrong time.
      Rom 1:18-24 Because the wicked compromise nature’s light, He gives them reprobate minds.
      HIS JUDGMENT AGAINST COMPROMISE IS SEVERE.
      Gen 9:22-27 The posterity of Ham by Canaan were cursed for compromising parental honor.
      Gen 19:30-38 Lot compromised all the way to Sodom’s city council; but he was tortured in his
      soul, lost his family and everything, and impregnated his two daughters in a cave.
      Ex 32:26-29 He had the Levites prove loyalty about the golden calf by killing family members.
      Lev 10:1-7 He killed Aaron’s two sons for offering innovative incense, and He would not
      allow grief for them. Is not this harsh for ordained men in the worship of God?
      Nu 14:1-45 He killed ten spies and the whole nation without remedy for not taking the land.
      Nu 15:30-36 Israel had to stone a man to death just for picking up sticks on the sabbath day.
      Nu 16:1-40 He swallowed Korah, Dathan, Abiram, wives, and little children with the earth
      and burned up the 250 princes for presuming on an office and man He had called.
      Nu 16:41-50 He killed 14,700 Israelites for grieving for Korah and the 250 princes of Israel.
      Nu 20:6-13 Moses and Aaron missed Canaan for using the rod instead of talking to the rock.
      Even though they got the right results, God ignored forty years of faithful service.
      Nu 21:4-6 He sent fiery serpents among them to kill many for compromising thankfulness.
      Nu 25:1-9 He demanded the hanging of the rulers and killed twenty-four thousand for a little
      lovemaking compromise with the Moabites. Phinehas earned His praise for zeal.
      Josh 7:24-26 Israel stoned and burned Achan, his entire family, and all possessions for stealing.
      I Sam 6:19 Why did 50,300 die just for peeking in the ark? Aw shucks, you must be kidding.II Sa 6:1-10 He killed Uzzah in David’s glorious parade for using an ox cart (I Chron 15:13).
      II Sa 12:7-14 He killed a baby for David’s sin and punished him horribly with Absalom.
      II Sa 24:15 Why did 70,000 die just for numbering Israel? Is an innocent census that bad?
      II Kg 2:23-24 He sent she bears to tear forty-two children for compromising ministerial respect.
      II Kg 6:24-29 He made the famine so bad in Samaria they ate dove’s dung and their children.
      II Kg 17:1-23 The Lord took Israel captive into Assyria for secretly compromising His statutes.
      II Chr 26:19 He smote Uzzah with leprosy in his face for attempting to burn priestly incense.
      Acts 5:1-11 He killed Ananias and Sapphira for giving less than the total they claimed.
      I Cor 11:30 He killed, weakened, and sickened many at Corinth for communion compromise.
      Rev 2:23 He promised to kill children with death for a compromising prophetess Jezebel.
      HIS DEFINITION OF TRUTH IS NARROW AND EXTREME.
      Gen 4:1-7 Cain was rejected though offering to the LORD at the right place at the right time.
      Isaiah 8:20 He condemns any contrary opinion to Scripture as having no light at all.
      Jeremiah 3:1 The Lord compares compromising truth to a wife taking on many lovers.
      Ezek 16:33 He compares compromising truth to a wife buying lovers rather than getting paid.
      Matt 7:22-23 Lip service does not mean anything to the Lord of heave, only true obedience.
      Mat 13:44-46 Jesus valued the truth so highly that a man would sell all that he had for it.
      Matt 28:20 Only Christ’s commandments and all of His commandments are to be taught.
      Luke 6:26 Lip service does not mean anything to the Lord of heaven, only true obedience.
      Jn 4:21-24 He denied truth to both Israel and Samaria, allowing it only to Himself.
      John 8:44 Lies come from the devil, for he lied from the beginning and is the father of them.
      John 14:6 He claimed to be the Truth Himself, and therefore everything else is a lie.
      Acts 4:12 There is no salvation outside His Name, for there is no Saviour but Jesus Christ.
      Acts 17:11 Noble men and women search the Scriptures to determine truth and reject all else.
      Acts 18:26 Though Apollos was very gifted, instructed, and fervent, he needed conversion.
      Rom 3:4 He can easily condemn all men as liars and Himself as the source of truth.
      Rom 11:6 His precise definition of grace and works does not allow for any mixture of them.
      I Cor 11:16 Even on matters as minor as hair length, He would not allow any contention.
      I Cor 14:38 He condemned those who didn’t like it His way as being hopele ssly ignorant.
      II Cor 11:4 He warned against another Jesus, gospel, and spirit from Satan the great deceiver.
      Gal 1:8-9 Paul absolutely condemned any other doctrine from any source as cursed by God.
      I Thess 5:21 We are to prove all things by objective criteria and reject anything not qualifying.
      I Tim 4:1-3 If men preach against meat and marriage – no matter how sincere – it is devilish.
      II Tim 3:7 The Lord ridicules the education and learning of our age as missing the truth.
      Tit 1:12-14 Paul rightly condemned the Cretians as always liars, evil beasts, and slow bellies.
      I John 4:6 John demanded all spirits and men be tried by the apostles to confirm the truth.HIS RULES FOR COMPROMISERS ARE HARSH.
      Neh 13:25 Nehemiah smote, cursed, and pulled the hair of those compromising in marriage.
      Ps 50:21-22 Though He is sometimes silent, He promises to tear compromisers in pieces.
      Ro 16:17-18 Compromises of apostolic doctrine are marked and avoided as belly worshippers.
      Phil 3:18-19 Those who mind earthly things are belly worshippers and the enemies of Christ.
      II Thess 3:6 Paul ordered total separation from any man not following apostolic tradition.
      Tit 3:10-11 Heretics get two chances to repent and convert, or they are to be rejected.
      II Jn 1:10-11 He would not allow his beloved lady to entertain or bless any compromisers.
      Rev 2:1-5 He promised to remove the candlestick from Ephesus for losing their first love.
      HE REJECTS NOBLE EXCUSES FOR COMPROMISE.
      I Sa 15:22-23 God took the kingdom from Saul for compromise and called it witchcraft and
      idolatry, even though the people chose compromise for sacrifice unto the Lord.
      Is 1:10-15 The Lord hated Israel’s hypocritical feasts and called them Sodom and Gomorrah.
      Mal 2:1-9 He promised a facial of religious dung for the priests who compromised His word.
      Matt 15:5 Jesus condemned the vowing of assets to the temple to avoid parental honor.
      Mat 8:21-22 Jesus condemned one of His disciples desiring to bury his father for compromise.
      Mat 15:1-20 Jesus condemned Jewish tradition as vain worship and showed disdain for them.
      Lu 14:25-33 Jesus Christ demanded hatred for our dearest relationships to be His disciple.
      HE WARNS AGAINST COMPROMISE.
      Nu 15:37-41 Israel wore blue ribbons on their garments to remind them against compromise.
      De 28:47-48 God promised to destroy any who would not serve Him with joyful, glad hearts.
      Jos 24:16-20 Joshua rebuked Israel sharply for any idea of serving the Lord with compromise.
      Job 32:1-22 Elihu knew God’s inspiration to be greater than wisdom of old and esteemed men.
      Ps 119:99 In comparison to God’s words, teachers are not to be respected or followed.
      Ps 119:100 In comparison to God’s words, the ancients are not to be esteemed or followed.
      Ezek 20:39 The Lord exhorts Israel to idolatry, if they are not going to eliminate compromise.
      Amos 4:4-5 The Lord exhorts Israel to idolatry, if they are not going to eliminate compromise.
      Matt 6:24 Jesus states absolutely it is impossible to compromise between God and mammon.
      I Cor 16:22 He curses any not fully loving the Lord Jesus Christ with judgment at His coming.
      II Co 6:14-18 Only absolute separation from false religion will bring His fatherly affection.
      I Tim 6:3-5 Ministers are warned to withdraw from any man consenting not to God’s Word.
      II Tim 3:5 The perilous times of the last days would be characterized by a form of godliness
      without authority, and Timothy was to avoid such compromising teachers.
      James 4:4 He condemns any man who chooses to be a friend of the world as His enemy.
      II Pe 2:20-22 He condemned those who compromise with their former ways as dogs and pigs.
      I Jn 2:15-17 Compromise with the world and its things proves the lack of any love for God.
      Rev 3:15-16 Jesus prefers us hot (zealous) or cold (pagans), but not lukewarm (compromisers).

      REMEMBER: “God is love.” :)

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him should not perish…

      And I highly doubt (if the flood was even literally, which I also highly doubt. Sorry, Biblical literalists. I believe it was an ancient story about Mesopotamian gods passed down through oral tradition) that God flooded the world without pity or regard. The fact that he searched the world for reasons not to do so, and promised never to do so again suggests to me otherwise.

  • Robert

    Great post Sara and I agree with you!!! I just wanted to ask you how you would respond to some points friends of mine make. One says that Gods love and forgiveness is contingent upon repentance and faith in Jesus, otherwise Gods wrath remains upon them. I am a *hopeful universalist* hoping we all end up in the same pool eternally. So many verses my friend has shared with me look to echo his point. Just want to hear your and any of your readers thought. Thanks for being so open on here. :)

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      I wish I had answers for you. I’m a hopeful universalist as well, but I must admit that every time I hear someone say God hates people, part of me believes them and I panic a little.

      Still, I think the overall point of the Bible seems to say that God loves everyone and died for everyone. Maybe there’s still wrath for those who reject his love (I don’t know how that works…), but to say God hates seems like a stretch.

      This article by Rachel Held Evans gives me some hope though: http://rachelheldevans.com/bible-inclusive-salvation-heaven-hell

      I really wish I had more answers. I’m searching for them too right now. Anyone else want to add to this?

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  • Robert

    Sara- thanks so much for sharing the link to Rachels post. i am seeking to understand this issue as best i can as you also said. Anytime i bring up the verses that sound to have inclusivist universal application, i am told it only apploes to believers, ones who place faith in Jesus. Ugnhh Sin seesm to be so overwhelming in scope for any of us to handle APART from Jesus and His forgiveness and love along with the Father and Holy Spirit. I hope more people weigh in. Thanks so much for sharing Sara!!

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com Sarah Moon

      I’ve been thinking– the Bible seems clear that Jesus is the only way to heaven. But MUST people know Jesus by name in order to get to heaven by him, or did Jesus’ death unlock the doors so that all could enter, even if never got a chance to know Jesus or if they got confused about who he was along the way?

      I don’t know the answers to that question, but it’s something I’ve been pondering!

  • Seth

    I mean no disrespect, but I don’t quite undertand the agony over Driscoll. The guy is often abrasive and opinionated, but he is not the one deciding anyone’s salvation. There are so many people who are SO upset over what this guy says. Folks, he’s a lightweight. Any level 4 or higher prison will be filled with a multitude of characters far harder to love than Driscoll.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      You don’t have to understand. It’s good that you’re able to brush off Driscoll’s comments. I wish I could come to that place in my own life!

      It’s hard for me to love Driscoll, however, because his words represent the very things that I am fighting against as a woman. His words feel personal to me because of my experiences.

      And yes, criminals in prison may have committed worse crimes, but the danger with Driscoll is that the harm he does is subtle, and he does it in the name of Christ and thousands of people buy into it. That’s a dangerous combination.

      • Seth

        I hear you, but did you just use “subtle” and “Driscoll” in the same sentence without a hint of irony? ;) I didn’t know that it was possible.

  • http://www.jermainelane.com Jermaine Lane

    Thanks for this. My take:

    Is it up to me to hold Mark D. accountable for what he says? No. I’m not an elder in his church nor am I the Holy Spirit. It “seems” like, faith based bloggers’ favorite pastime is blasting M.D. and pointing out how wrong he is and here is the scripture to back up why he is wrong. Really? What if, we got out of the way and let God judge hearts and spend our time serving/loving the sick/poor/outcast/unlovable/people wounded by Mark D. and Mark D. himself?

    David, King and Poet psalmed, “I’ve hid thy word in my heart, that I might not sin against you (aka God). I read scripture so I can remember how much God loves me and so I can know God better, not to use it as a sledgehammer against people I disagree with. Or bend it to my will.

    Plus, Mark D. has family. He has kids. His kids will grow up reading how all these mean people talked smack against their dad. They have a totally different context on Mark D., that’s their daddy. Sure, he says hurtful things, but are we to repay hurt with hurt or with, you know, good and stuff.

    I disagree with the majority of what he preaches/writes. Yes, he is my brother and sometimes, family disagrees. But I refuse to put this man on blast. That’s easy. Loving him as deeply as God does, that is difficult, but perhaps, a more worthwhile goal.

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com Sarah Moon

      yes! I agree with you very much on this. I’ve written many posts about Mark Driscoll out of anger that I didn’t publish for the reasons you’ve mentioned. I don’t feel that it’s my place to blast him like that.

      I will stand up against some of the wrong ideas that he preaches and I will hope that I can help some of those who have been fooled by his wrong teachings, but I pray that I never get to a point where I feel it’s okay to use my blog to rant about him everytime he says something I don’t agree with.

  • Anonymous

    According to Driscoll’s reformed theology….maybe God doesn’t love everybody. So who knows, maybe Driscoll just thinks he’s elected!

    • http://moonchild11.wordpress.com moonchild11

      Even if that is his theology, I’m not sure why he’d preach that. It’s not like his making people aware of the fact that they are not elect can change anything.

  • Pingback: Is Mark Driscoll right? Does God hate me? | Sarah Moon

  • http://mosthopeful.wordpress.com Most Hopeful

    I’m finding it’s always easier to love the oppressed, because we get to love that part of ourselves as well. It’s harder loving the oppressors, because it means, as you say, that we have to accept that part of ourselves.

    I’m also finding that right after we accept it, it starts to morph into something a little more graceful.

    Thanks for your words.

  • ConspiryRanieri

    I’ve always had a particular problem with the whole anti-gay thing too.

    Number of times Jesus discusses gay marriage: Zero.

    Number of times Jesus discusses gays: 0.0.

    Number of times Jesus’ Followers discuss gays: Off the Charts.

    Jesus was concerned with causing children to stumble and not believe in him.

    The television seems to be an infinitely bigger enemy than the gays.
    The closet is not the elephant in the room.


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