White Christians Must Resist an Age of Tyranny

White Christians Must Resist an Age of Tyranny July 20, 2018

This week President Trump showed unadulterated support for a murderous tyrant by embracing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s worldview, even as Putin undermines our democracy. If it wasn’t clear before, it should be now: America is headed toward tyranny and people of faith must speak out.

Christians, who value the dignity of every human being as created in God’s image and therefore value democratic governance, must resist him. We cannot support a president who calls good evil and evil good. A nation under a cruel and oppressive government cannot sustain a flourishing democracy.

Trump deliberately and consistently blurs the bright lines between good and evil. He insults Haiti and African nations without apology. He sees fault “on both sides” when white nationalists march through the streets of an American city. He praises dictators who brutally murder their people.

Since so many white evangelicals are captive to the false gospel of white nationalism preached by our President and his spiritual advisers, Christians who follow the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ must be especially loud in our opposition to the ideology preached by false prophets.

Murderous dictatorial regimes are incompatible with the Christian vision of governance. Putin murders his political opponents. Putin puts Christian missionaries and other religious minorities in jail. Putin assassinates his political opponents. Putin despises democracy. Putin is giving Trump lessons.

Holocaust historian Timothy Snyder reminds us that when Hitler rolled into Austria his racist attack on Jews was met by little resistance. In fact, many Austrians joined in enthusiastically. Hitler realized he could proceed with his genocidal vision for an Aryan humanity more quickly than he had thought. Hitler placed Nazi-sympathizing “German Christians” in positions of power throughout the established Lutheran Church of Germany. The Confessing Church was formed to resist the Nazification of the church. It did not represent a majority, but its resistance was critical. We need a modern Confessing Church.

We still have a democracy here in the U.S., but it is in great peril.

By equating oppressive leaders with liberty and neo-Nazis with peaceful protesters, Trump has once again shown his goal is tyranny that like that of Putin’s Russia, which targets its citizens because of their race, religion and sexuality.

Autocracy, exploitation and racism are counter to the will of God. Biblical heroes challenged and outwitted tyrants, from Pharaoh (Moses) to Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel), to Artaxerxes III (Esther), to Caesar (Jesus) to emperor Domitian (St John in Revelation). All humans are created in the image of God and must be treated with dignity and respect. God’s preference is for those most persecuted by the world’s tyrants: immigrant, the refugee, the widow, the orphan– those oppressed by tyranny. God warns that those who do not rule justly will face judgement.

Trump’s embrace of Putin comes after he insulted  democratic Europe several times and left the United Nations Human Rights Commission. With words (and potentially deals struck in back rooms) Trump is systematically undermining the world’s embrace of democratic and human rights norms. This after showing just how far he can go by separating immigrant families, ripping nursing babes from their mothers’ arms even as they ask for asylum.

From the start of this administration religious leaders have raised the alarm about Trump’s white supremacist agenda. Days after he appointed Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions as his top advisers, religious leaders decried Trump’s “cabinet of bigotry.” Religious leaders led the front lines to defend Charlottesville from white supremacy. And they led in Brownsville as the details of a morally bankrupt ‘zero tolerance’ policy to immigration became clear.

Some white evangelical Christians will continue to walk lock step with the President. By embracing a president who embraces white supremacy and dictators they bring shame to the gospel and the Christian faith.

It is time we take Trump at his word. He has said he wants a whiter America. He has signaled that he prefers autocracy to democracy.

As a Christian minister, I must be honest in calling this a road to tyranny. We all must be firm in resisting this toxic white supremacy.

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  • Ivan T. Errible

    There is no god.

  • DHFabian

    On “Trump’s embrace of Putin,” a ludicrous notion in view of the measures Trump has taken to provoke war with Russia, are you, too, in support of increased tensions with the potential for catastrophic nuclear war?

  • DHFabian

    How do yo0u know?

  • CroneEver

    Amen. These times are sifting people like wheat. Stand strong. The best resistance is to practice the Gospel.

  • How you weave a story of deceit and conflation to conclude what. That you must stand against a road to tyranny? You are on a road all right. It is leading you straight to hell for preaching sedition. Your words belie your understanding of democracy. Those of us who voted for President Trump and support him are glad that the era of the Progressives has been exposed for the evil it is.

    Who in their right mind would make the statements below:

    “A nation under a cruel and oppressive government cannot sustain a flourishing democracy.”
    “We still have a democracy here in the U.S., but it is in great peril.”
    “By embracing a president who embraces white supremacy and dictators they bring shame to the gospel and the Christian faith.”
    “As a Christian minister, I must be honest in calling this a road to tyranny.”

    A Christian Minster would not post this garbage.

  • David

    “As a Christian minister, I must be honest” well you blew that one, perhaps try again using facts?

  • mjp1800

    “A Christian Minster would not post this garbage.”

    Not one that rejects wholesale the message of the prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures, I guess.

  • Timothy Weston

    The irony is that authoritarianism is how the conservative Christians that voted for him stay in power.

  • Do not confuse partisan politics with biblical comparisons.

  • mjp1800

    Then don’t claim this nation is a Christian one.

  • Most understand that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principals; often shortened to Christian.
    Today we continue the downward spiral into destruction that has been prophesied long ago.
    We are really a Constitutional Republic that guarantees Freedom of Religion and Speech. Thus haters like the Minister who wrote this blog have the freedom to do so. Do you claim she is a Christian?

  • mjp1800

    My discernment is that she is standing up for beliefs I would describe as consistent with Christianity.

    As for you, it seems you want to have it both ways. You want to claim we are a Christian nation, and then block off a Biblical critique of same. I don’t see that as logically consistent.

  • Possible. But what she is really doing is writing a blog that she thinks other like minded Liberals will appreciate.
    There is a big difference in Founded (1776) and Current State (2018). I didn’t say we are a Christian nation. A nation that embraces Abortion as a birth control method and recognizes SSM cannot seriously be considered Christian in a biblical sense.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    Because there’s no difference between those who believe and those who don’t.

  • Martha Anne Underwood

    Jen Butler, you are so right. Trump and the evangelicals who voted for him are ruining our country. As Christians we are supposed to put the God above all and follow Christ’s path of love. We need to stand up and speak out on the tyranny we face in our country now.

  • Martha Anne Underwood

    She did use facts. If you are saying she is lying then give proof.

  • Rudy Schellekens

    I am not a trump lover, although I AM a Republican. I do find the article troublesome. You may (or may not) remember how chummy Roosevelt was with Stalin. Stalin, who was responsible for the death of at least FORTY (40) MILLION Russians. You may (or may not) remember how Chummy Ambassador Kennedy was with the Nazi regime. Or how chummy Presidents were with the Shah of Persia.
    Politics makes strange bedfellows, and always has throughout history.

  • Steve Bailey

    Thank you, Jen. You encapsulate the situation beautifully. Your fourth paragraph about the false Gospel that American Evangelicals have unfortunately bought into is crucial. The false prophets of the currently very ‘uncivil’ American religion must be soundly called out and rebuked by Christians who are not afraid to lift up Jesus Christ and His Gospel. I’m appalled that 80% of Southern Baptists buy into the Trump heresy and fail to recognize the profound damage he and his minions are causing to your once great country – a country we have looked to in the past to defend the values expressed in its Constitution.

  • Mr. James Parson

    “the Christian vision of governance”

    What is that?

    I wonder how I will be treated as an atheist. I wonder if I will have hide who I am, again?

  • Mr. James Parson

    There could be something somewhere that someone would call a God.

  • Mr. James Parson

    There is strong evidence that an interactive God does not exist.

  • Barros Serrano

    The problem is that so many of you pretending to be Christians are in fact fascists.

  • Barros Serrano

    Whereas the U$A was a Christian nation when massacring Natives, enslaving Africans, depriving women of basic rights, slaughtering Vietnamese, giving away the store to billionaires, etc., right?

    Your notion of what constitutes Christian morality and what violates that are strange indeed.

  • Parading our “national sins” is a typical Liberal pretext to make you feel better than others. In fact
    if those “sins” are valid then you are complicit through your relatives just as the rest of us.
    You have no idea what constitutes Christianity other than Liberal hyperbole.

  • Government and Religious affiliation are different. Progressive Liberalism’s main goal is to have a totalitarian one-party state. This is your party not mine.

  • Lana

    I do not believe she is a Christian period. I believe in the bible; and it says women are not to teach let alone preach the Gospel. I voted for Trump because he is a Republican and will vote for him again. Women preachers need to find another job…

  • mjp1800

    I don’t read the Bible in the same way as you do. Women were the first to witness (and witness to) the risen Christ. I’m glad they didn’t keep the news to themselves. How about you?

  • Lana

    Has nothing to do with who first witnessed the risen Christ; and it is plainly written that women are not to preach. I stand by the Word.

  • Lana

    All countries are guilty of that; no one country is perfect. Africans enslaved and sold Africans to whomever. American Native tribes fought and killed each other. Women have rights here in the USA, but in other countries it is very oppressive or dangerous. Vietnamese killed there own in the name of Communism.

  • mjp1800

    Lana wrote, “I stand by the Word.”

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    You’re voting down the blogger as a Christian for teaching scripture, but supporting Trump, who has violated all the commandments.

  • Lana

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone…I still stand by the Holy Word. I pray for our President Donald Trump because of his position as Commander in Chief of our great Nation. I pray for his family and their protection from haters and vicious liars. God is the One who is really in control and I believe President Trump truly loves American. He is draining the swamp of treacherous and poisonous snakes among other evil entities.

  • Lana

    Lol…what damage? The jobs he is trying to bring back to Americans? What idiocy…

  • Barros Serrano

    Pretending the nation and its leaders are blameless is fascist behavior. We who believe in democracy and freedom, however, insist on accountability. I’d say accountability is “Christian”…

    I was raised Methodist so how would I know about Christianity? I know that I’ve often thought that I would never vote for any Republican unless it were Jesus himself, but then we all know Jesus is a Democrat, so that ain’t gonna happen…

  • Fascist is where your party is going – ask Ocasio Cortez.
    We don’t need your vote to win the mid-terms so don’t flatter yourself
    Ford today has been exposed as a “serial liar.” Re her 6-year boyfriend’s letter to the committee: no two doors, traveled the world and did help prep people to beat a lie detector, never said anything about Kavanaugh or any sexual abuse and did lie about abusing said boyfriends credit card. Again, Serial Liar! It’s over for her.

  • Barros Serrano

    Wrong, partisan hack. What is coming out is confirmation that Kavanaugh is a problem… a mean drunk who treats women badly and is NOT of good character. 900 Law professors signed a letter stating that very opinion. He is NOT of judicial temperament, they declared.

    But you snarky dittohead Faux News watcher know better, right…

    Boy, i lived under fascism and so why don’t you just shut your mouth right now. I do not find your ludicrous adolescent spiel amusing.

    Democrats are not fascists. Trumpolini is, however. I know how they talk, and i can smell them. Your Orange Sex Assailant thinks he’s going to be dictator.

  • You are apparently growing more upset and combative with every post.
    Notice you cannot dispute Ocasio Cortez and you have no answers as to why we should believe Ford with her inconsistencies. But that is a typical Liberal response to facts.

    Since you have experienced fascism firsthand then you know that this administration is not fascist. Your ideology has blinded you to anything resembling coherent. It is the Liberals that want to deny free speech and take away the second amendment. You have a slanted view of Democrats as people who want to help others. Today’s Liberals only want power and they are willing to destroy our democracy to do so. This is the real reason they betrayed Ford and put her in the public eye. Power corrupts and it is still true today.

  • I thought you might enjoy this post which summarizes the reason Liberals have become unhinged of late.

    “Liberalism’s a mental disease,” Jim Geraghty at National Review said, “I think psychological disorders, people with psychological disorders have become liberals in politics, that psychological disorders… People who have them, have brought their disorders into politics — and rather than just a singular thing that happened to them, they make it all about the country did it to them or an entire population did it to them,” and I think that’s exactly what liberalism is and has become, and that’s where we agree.

  • Barros Serrano

    Nice copout. So you as a Yank have no responsibility though your lifestyle is subisidized by sweatshop and plantation workers held in place by dictators and deathsquads. That’s ok, you don’t have to think about it… just spew some relativistic nonsense… and then go on pretending you’re a Christian.

    Matthew 25—you’re a goat.

  • Barros Serrano

    Boy, your conservativism is mentally ill, as you vote for people who screw the country! Are you a billionaire? Yet you bend over and vote for THEIR interests over those of the people. That indicates low intelligence and makes you a traitor. No way around it so don’t even try.

    Now get to Russia pronto.

  • Barros Serrano

    you said nothing about Ocasio Cortez but the name, so who knows what you’re talking about. I doubt you do either; you just repeat whatever Sean Hannity tells you to believe.

    I know that Trumpolini is a fascist. You don’t know what the word means. Trumpolini said the other day, “Why are protests allowed?” LOL!!! 1st Amendment, fool…

    He also said, did he not, “I can pardon myself.”

    Fascist. Dictator. Traitor.

    For supporting him, YOU are a traitor and should board that Aeroflot NOW.

  • Confirmation of my comment, “Liberalism’s a mental disease”

  • If you don’t know about Cortez perhaps you should change your viewing habits.
    Trumps comment about presidential pardon authority was made to infuriate Liberals and it has succeeded.
    There isn’t enough room on Aeroflot for 60 million of us rather we will stay here and destroy your hopes in the midterms.
    Watch tomorrow as the Senate confirms the Judge over the satanic democrat scam to destroy him.

  • Barros Serrano

    You made some point about Ocasio Cortez but did not specify about what you were speaking. I’m supposed to read your mind?

    Trumpolini’s comment was that of a dictator. what he’s doing is SCARING anyone who cares about freedom. Trumpolini is a megalomaniac narcissist fascist and if you can’t see that, well, then you’re exactly what I think you are and it is not good.

    You fascists hope to turn this country into a white-right fiefdom but it will not happen. You will be surprised to find out how many are ready to oppose you, including oppose your little coup attempt when Trumpolini is indicted or impeached (which is inevitable).


  • Barros Serrano

    You are not sane, boy, that is obvious. So it ill behooves you to criticize the mental health of others,

    By your standards Bobby Kennedy was insane.

    But, by real standards, Trumpolini is a clinical narcissist and megalomaniac. But that’s ok with you, as long as he continues to insult non-whites and women, right?

    You’re a low-mentality ideologue utterly lacking in substance. Your smartass is only going to get you hurt, fool.

    Grow the hell up.

  • Diatribes and gutter language is a known symptom of “mental illness.”
    Ted Kennedy had this disease. He let a woman drown rather than try anything to save her just to save his own career.
    John Kennedy was a womanizer and by the standards they are jugging the Judge he would be impeached.
    Bobby Kennedy was killed by the criminals he was pursuing not a political hit.

  • Barros Serrano

    You’re babbling. Chappaquiddick, lol. Hey what about TEAPOT DOME!!!???

    Back in 2018, the President is a raving narcissist and you’re whining about mental illness among liberals, lol…

    Very good talented Pres and would have been Pres JFK and RFK, and instead we got LBJ’s war and Nixon the lying sleaze. Now in retrospect they seem trivial evils relative to the current crop of Teaparty nuts and that Orange Psychopath in the White House

  • Lana

    Lol…you’re not my judge! Are you an American citizen? I don’t know you and you have no idea what I buy or don’t buy or where I buy it. You are the one that is ignorant of American history. Proud goat…lol

  • Barros Serrano

    My citizenship is irrelevant, of course, except to a bigot.

    Yes, you are judged. You do buy sweatshop goods. Your entire consumer economy is based on a global sweatshop economy.

    By accepting this, you are guilty. “I was kept in virtual slave labor and you helped me not.”—Matthew 25.

    You are guilty of many offenses based on that scripture.

    Why are you hoping to deprive Jesus of healthcare access? Good luck explaining that one….

    Why are you prancing arrogantly, strutting your nationalism and power while you walk on Jesus’ face?

    You got some ‘splaining to do!

  • Lana

    Your thinking is wrong; I never enslaved you or anyone else. Whoever did this to you will pay sooner or later, but not me. You are blaming the wrong person. Corporations were created to use people with no repercussions, no recourse for the used or abused. You’re fighting something that is not worth the time and effort. Get a grip and get on with your life. Life is unfair to a lot of people, I hope you can or have gotten out of your drudgery of a job. But I can’t save the people from themselves and I certainly did not cause cheap labor, corporations did that and are still doing it. Your anger towards me or anyone is useless. I was born fortunate…never had to work except if I wanted to. Not all people can do that; I’m sorry that you have had such a hard time, but I had nothing to do with it.

  • Lana

    Atheist is no problem; false religions are.

  • Barros Serrano

    Your lifestyle is supported by all of that, so you like all of us have a responsibillity in that regard. As we are responsible to fight against racism when it is still abusing people in this country. If we live here as “free” citizens (how free we really are is debatable, but never mind) we are obligated to take some responsibility and again I direct you to Matthew 25. I think the mandate is very clear in that passage.

  • Lana

    You never confessed if you believe in Jesus. You quote scripture to me, but to you apply it to yourself? We are to read the bible to learn how to live our own life. If you believe the bible Jesus through his Holy Word will help you with your life. You have to trust Jesus not people. Never look to people for anything or you will be gravely disappointed. Live your life for Christ and He will make a way.

  • Barros Serrano

    This is a grand deflection from the issue, which is that if you live in this society and benefit from its wealth and its exploitation of workers worldwide, then you have some responsibilty for that.

    You don’t evade the mandate laid on YOU by Matthew 25 by going off about my salvation.

    How about all that Police racism in your country? How about the sweatshop economy? How about the white-right running amok? How about a President who thinks he’s a dictator? How about rampant misogyny being excuses by GOP politicians. How about the CLIMATE… how did you like this summer… here it made farming very difficult. The future is grim. What are YOU doing about it?

  • Lana

    Nothing…I like things the way they are…good day

  • Barros Serrano

    Then you are guilty, a goat. You are rejected by Jesus, he said so in Matthew 25. Do not come in here talking about Christianity; you have nothing to do with it. Nor it with you.

    You are neck-deep in blood and you like it that way. You think there is no obligation to try to change anything…

    Yep, typical GOP voter… doesn’t care about ANYONE.

    Now give me another pompous rap about my relationship with Jesus, LOL!!!

  • Lana

    May the Lord rebuke you in the name of Jesus the Christ. You need to get right with the Lord…not me. You’re full of hate and bigotry, look in the mirror. God in my judge not you period.

  • Barros Serrano

    You are guilty of blatant contravention of Jesus’ commandments and you defend yourself with snide vitriole! For SHAME! And woe is you! Baaaaaaaa…

    You are judged by your actions, as stated in Matthew 25. You are ok with rampant abuse, oppression, even genocide, misogyny, racism… everything is “just fine” to you.

    There is no place for you in God’s kingdom.

  • Barros Serrano

    Then you are an unrepentant bigot and a goat. Jesus stated clearly in Matthew 25 that your ilk is rejected by him.

    You voting republican also likely prevents you entering heaven, as you are voting for miscreants who abuse millions of people economically, destroy the earth of which we are supposed to be stewards, enforce bigotry of various sorts, back death squads and dictators

    And you sit smugly thinking you’re “saved”, LOL!!! I do believe there are some pertinent verses in the NT, the words of Jesus, in fact, which in strong terms condemn your kind. Since you’re so familiar with the Bible, likely you can figure out which verses those are. Open your heart and removed the mental block which prevents from seeing that the words of Jesus are indicting YOU!

    Redemption is possible. Reform and repent.

  • Barros Serrano

    You are supporting a fascist, clearly, as you are supporting the GOP which is fascist in most things, and a megalmaniac wannabe dictator whose evil you can’t even see, you’re so contorted with bigotry and hate.

    You think you’ll help the country by attacking liberals, immigrants, minorities, women, etc. Hitler was going to Make Germany Great Again by eliminating the Jews.

    Your thinking is in no way better than that of your mentor the Fuhrer.

  • Barros Serrano

    You are threatening non-Christians then? What are you planning to do to them? An Inquisition, perhaps? You definitely have the mentality of an Inquisitioner.

    But what you forget is that we have fought for freedom in Western society for centuries, including the U$A Revolution, French Revolution, and before that Enlightenment to free us from Church tyranny (such as you advocate), and in the U$A we have had to fight for the vote for women, rights for non-whites, and so on. That includes religious freedom.

    I am not Christian. Will you advocate I be “dealt with” in some way? Because will proclaim paganism in public as is my right.

    Whatchagonnado? Please be specific, but remember many of us are very well-armed.

  • “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” Republicans and Conservatives do not attack people; Liberals are now attacking and injuring Conservatives in Restaurants, Hallways and on the Street. That is Fascist behavior and you own it as well by your confused thinking.

    Conservatives now control the Supreme Court and will for the next 30 years! Legislation form the Bench is over. Thanks God!.

  • Barros Serrano

    they will legislate from the Right, and you know it.

    What y’all want is your white-right heaven and by putting a drunken misogynist frat rat on the bench you figure you’ll get it. Don’t be so sure.

    Already the excesses of Trumpolini and his idiot minions are creating such a backlash that you will not be happy the day after the next election.

    Every time the Fascist Party (GOP) takes the White House the Republiklan voters go on about how they’ve won forever, liberalism is dead, etc., yet after Dubya we got Obama, and a Democrat will succeed Trumpolini (or rather Pence who will become Pres when Trumpolini is impeached). And we’ll also beat your next GOP candidate, likely Dog the Bounty Hunter.

  • Thanks for your kind words to a man who has been vilified for democrat aspirations. This act of desperation has angered more Republican women and they will show you that shortly. Progressive Liberalism is dead; the head has been cut off; only the body doesn’t know it yet. Your party will have to completely start over if it intends to compete in 2020.

  • Barros Serrano

    I spoke kindly by referring only to his low character. There is so much more…

    But your fanatic and fascist loyalty to the Party of Corporate Shillery is noted.

    I recall Republicans claiming in 1981 that the Democratic Party was dead.

    Progressive politics are the norm in every other developed nation, while the U$A languishes in connedservative backwardness.

    Thanks for you role in preventing us from evolving as a modern society. Your treason is noted.

  • Not Democrats – just the Progressives. The rest of the world is no different.

  • Barros Serrano

    Clearly the greatest President of the 20th century was FDR. He was a Progressive.

    Progressive policies resemble those of demosocialists in the rest of the developed world, in all those countries superior to the backwater craphole U$A (thanks to Reaganomics). Progressive polices = freedom.

    Are you happy voting for people who do everything they can to deprive millions of healthcare access? I guess that tells us all we need to know about YOUR character….

  • People who live in this great country and don’t love it for the opportunity it offers and the security it provides are suffering from “mental illness.” Political discourse is off track when people of one party impute motives to people of other parties because they hold different beliefs. When Obamacare passed early in the first term of the most progressive president this country ever had nothing changed except progressives did not want to pay for it and it became unsustainable.

  • Barros Serrano

    What a load of rhetorical nonsense. Save the “this great country” speech for a highschool assembly. This country is a mess thanks to Republicans, Reaganomics, racism, etc. Opportunity? There is better opportunity in the rest of the developed world, more freedom, and better societies. The U$A by most indices is LAST among developed nations. We’re sliding into the 2nd world fast and with the GOP in power that will continue.

    Obama was far from the most progressive President. FDR is likely due that honor. Even Teddy Roosevelt. Obama was barely left-of-center, yet to you ultra-right fascists along with Hillary he was “Communist”, lol at your ignorance.

    Yeah he was also a Moslem terrorist from Kenya.

  • What indices please? More freedom? From what?
    What did Obama accomplish at the end of the day?

  • Barros Serrano

    You don’t even know what a social welfare index is.

    things like availability of services, happiness, conditions at work, wages relative to prices, access to medical care, life expectancy, health…

    All the things which continue to get worse in the U$A every year that the conservatives continue to hold the reins.

    As now the top 1% owns half the country, please tell us how that is a good thing, how that makes the U$A other than a quasi-feudal backwater? You have to be demented to think that’s an acceptable situation.

    Now look at the extensive poverty in this country. And the govt turns its back on the poor, with the GOP in power,

    Deplorables! Hillary was being too kind. You’re rutting devils!

  • Ivan T. Errible

    there is no god.
    And so, there is no judgement.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    I don’t; only partisans and manipulators on both the “Progressive” and Fundiegelical side do that.
    Stop trying to coerce me with your stupid fables.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    Then “most” are wrong; we have separated church and state.
    You don’t need to believe in god to be American or moral; it’s usually the believer who’s the fanatic.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    So what would you do if this person were openly atheist/agnostic and still thought we should severely limit asylum/immigration?
    What’s your Plan B?

  • Ivan T. Errible

    So why bother with the claim-except as an obvious and pathetic attempt at emotional manipulation?
    Religion is so ridiculous.

  • Actually you do need to believe in God to be moral. Without God there is no morality and no need for morality. Because morality proceeded from God not man. Christians believe in God but there are not fanatics. Fanatics are easy to spot and they are not sitting in Christian Churches; perhaps many on this site however.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    Without god there is not only morality, there is a great savings in money, time, and energy for actually useful things.

  • Ivan T. Errible

    And there are plenty of Xtians who are fanatics-not all, but a very high number, some really passionately stupid people.

  • That answer was rebutted long ago:
    Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

  • Ivan T. Errible

    No, that’s a circular argument.