From One Who Sacrificed: Stop Using Me in Your Anti-“Take a Knee” Argument

From One Who Sacrificed: Stop Using Me in Your Anti-“Take a Knee” Argument September 26, 2017

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You’ve probably been hearing it not just daily, but in a dozen different places across the internet: taking a knee during the national anthem is disrespectful to those who sacrificed in the service of this country.

I’ve heard it so many times in the last week, from the President to random people with flags as a profile picture, that I’m exhausted by it.

What has been even more difficult when listening to this “you’re disrespecting our vets” argument, is watching people like myself be put at the center of it– often by people who are not one of us. These self-professed “great Americans” claim to be the ones who honor me, and that others are diminishing my service.

Well, I’m tired of random people on the internet speaking for me. I have a voice, and I am capable of using it.

I am a retired active duty member of the United States Armed Forces. I also have a 90% disability rating with the Veterans Administration for service-connected disabilities.

I gave this nation a significant chunk of my life– and gave it parts of me that I didn’t realize I wouldn’t be able to get back when it was over.

You see, when you talk about this specific group of people who sacrificed for the nation, I intimately know who you’re talking about– because I see it every time I look in the mirror.

I know what it’s like to experience every right of passage that military members experience, from that initial moment all your hair is cut off, to the first time you feel the recoil of an M-16. I know all the tricks to getting a boot to hold its shine, how to properly starch a uniform, which MRE people are most likely to fight over, and I can decode acronyms and phrases that might as well be an ancient language to civilians.

Oh, and I totally know what Birth Control Glasses are.

More than just those typical rights of passage, I know what some other military experiences are like, too.

I know what seven consecutive years overseas feels like, and how you can almost forget what it’s like to be in the nation you’re actually serving.

I know how painful it is to realize it’s been nearly three years since you’ve been able to go home because your duty station is in such a remote part of the world, that it is financially cost prohibitive to go back and visit.

I know the pain of spending Christmas alone– over, and over and over again, and how you wish you’d grown numb to a life where friends often seem to leave faster than you can make new ones.presbush

I know what the lock-down on September 11th felt like in Korea, what it’s like to pick up the phone and hear “Threatcon Delta! This is NOT an exercise”, and what it’s like to deploy last minute to a hostile fire zone–  prohibited from telling anyone where you’re going or when you’ll be back. I also know that instead of some huge fanfare when you return from down range, sometimes you don’t even have anyone to pick you up at the airport.

And when you’re done? Well, I know that dealing with the VA is the most devaluing and insulting experience I have ever faced as a veteran. I know how they will drag their feet as long as possible on disability claims, how they’ll send you letters for 3-5 years saying they’re “still reviewing your medical records,” and how the entire process feels like a game where they are constantly trying to find any angle to blame medical conditions on something before the military– as if rigorous medical screening weren’t part of the process to get into the military in the first place.

So you know what? I can speak for myself on this whole “taking a knee disrespects our vets,” because I’ve earned my right to speak.

Here is what I’d like to tell all of you who make this argument on “my behalf.”

On the day I entered the military, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I didn’t take that oath lightly– it meant something to me.

While our constitution covers a lot of ground, what stood out in my mind all those years were the basic freedoms granted by the first amendment: the freedom of religion, freedom of speech/expression, freedom of the press, freedom to assemble, and the right to petition the government.

The chunk of my life I gave? All those things that I lost and can never get back? Well, I did that to support these core ideals that Americans have long cherished.

And what I need those of you who claim taking a knee disrespects my sacrifice to hear, is this:

Instead of disrespected, I feel my sacrifice deeply honored every single time I see a football player take a knee– because that represents the freedom of speech and expression that I gave so much of myself to uphold.

In fact, nothing honors my sacrifice more than the public exercise of these core freedoms.

What I’d also like you to know is that it is actually your position that disrespects what I have given for this nation.

When you vilify and harass someone for the peaceful exercise of their rights, and when you participate in a public campaign to harm or end their careers simply because they are using the very rights veterans like myself have sacrificed for, you disrespect me.

You insult me. You dishonor me.

You exploit me for your own cause.

In fact, there is nothing more opposed to the values I fought for than to use threats and coercion to force someone to express something they don’t wish to express.

You say you are offended when these players take a knee, and that they are disrespecting my sacrifice to the nation.

But the reality?

There is no position that disrespects me, or dishonors my sacrifice, more than yours does.

unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L Corey is the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith. You can preorder your copy today. Details are right here.


unafraid 300Dr. Benjamin L. Corey is a public theologian and cultural anthropologist who is a two-time graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary with graduate degrees in the fields of Theology and International Culture, and holds a doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary. He is also the author of the new book, Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, which is available wherever good books are sold. www.Unafraid-book.com. 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Ben, as a fellow retiree (Army) I totally agree with you. I gave most of my adult life, and as my son is doing for us now, to preserve the rights of all Americans. Thank you for your service, and thank you for this post.

  • The oldest page in the propaganda Playbook is pivoting. POTUS and Company are amateurish at this game so we can call them out on their Shenanigans thank God! His base supporters are as reprehensible as he is in my humble opinion! I don’t believe anything he says and I never shall.

  • David Slowinski

    Thank you for your service,your honesty,your opinions,your view of life that stems from your view of Abba,and thanks for helping me personally in my journey of deconstruction and renewal. You are a good man,Benjamin Corey!

  • “Taking the knee” is disrespectful to draft dodgers (such as Donald J. Trump). And they deserve to be disrespected.

  • Herm

    Again, in such a short time Ben, amen!!!

    Love, Herm, Vietnam vet 1966 – I owe it to all who died in our war, too many beside me, instead of me, to take a knee in respect to what they thought they were fighting for; continued freedom to fight at home, in peaceful demonstration, for a better nation that truly honors our Declaration of Independence that we all hold these truths to be self-evident, that all women, men and children of mankind are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness – Jim Crow laws were still being enforced in 1965.

  • Wow, Benjamin! This is powerful! And it should have wide distribution. I will try to do my part. ~Tim

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Dr. Corey. This should be required reading for every U.S. White Evangelical following Trump’s rage-filled, nationalist, xenophobic gospel.

  • This is awesome! Thank you for taking this argument head on!

  • Fartrell Cluggins

    This is great! I have a few active-duty nimrods who are super butthurt over the protests, threatening to unsupport the teams they’ve always supported (boohoo). This guy sets them straight.

  • Thanks for your service. This current uproar is not about Free Speech. How could it be when the “free speech” has been acted out many times in the sight of millions of people. Who has been prevented from taking a knee? No One! Has the NFL tried or stopped anyone fro taking a knee? No!

    The NFL has many rules that govern the conduct of its players. It could at anytime add a rule covering taking a knee during the Anthem. It has not.
    Many people hate seeing this display . They also have a right to their comments and they have made them.
    The President has the absolute right to defend the honor of our country and he has done so.

    I find it telling that after all of these displays, discussions and rhetoric few people are aware of the point of the protest? The Progressives tell us that the point is that our country is rotten to thee core and all white people are Racist, Trump is a white supremacist, etc. Typical Progressive divisiveness.

    Free Speech is not the issue.

  • There are millions of us disagree with your whining and are not afraid to state it.

  • Bones

    Lol…this is totally about free speech.

    And just for your information there are christian groups like JWs who don’t stand for the national anthem.

    Your hypocritical support for your Fuhrer who praised white neo-nazis as being ‘good people’ and black NFL players as ‘sons of bitches’ is noted and once again shows you are completely full of shit.

  • Bones

    Yeah, you didn’t get that did you?

  • Olive

    With respect, my friend, it is not appropriate to claim “Progressive divisiveness” after you misrepresent the stance of the left on this issue.

    Yes, we want everyone to recognize and address the parts of our system that have a racial bias. The point is not to make anyone feel like a racist jerk, but to make sure that people’s loved ones aren’t killed (intentionally or unintentionally) because they’re black. We all want that–right?

    ❤️

  • Bones

    Not an NFL fan (prefer real football like rugby league) and the only teams I know are the 69ers and the Chicago Bulls. But from the players themselves…..

    Eric Reid: Why Colin Kaepernick and I Decided to Take a Knee

    In early 2016, I began paying attention to reports about the incredible number of unarmed black people being killed by the police. The posts on social media deeply disturbed me, but one in particular brought me to tears: the killing of Alton Sterling in my hometown Baton Rouge, La. This could have happened to any of my family members who still live in the area. I felt furious, hurt and hopeless. I wanted to do something, but didn’t know what or how to do it. All I knew for sure is that I wanted it to be as respectful as possible.

    A few weeks later, during preseason, my teammate Colin Kaepernick chose to sit on the bench during the national anthem to protest police brutality. To be honest, I didn’t notice at the time, and neither did the news media. It wasn’t until after our third preseason game on Aug. 26, 2016, that his protest gained national attention, and the backlash against him began.

    That’s when my faith moved me to take action. I looked to James 2:17, which states, “Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” I knew I needed to stand up for what is right.

    I approached Colin the Saturday before our next game to discuss how I could get involved with the cause but also how we could make a more powerful and positive impact on the social justice movement. We spoke at length about many of the issues that face our community, including systemic oppression against people of color, police brutality and the criminal justice system. We also discussed how we could use our platform, provided to us by being professional athletes in the N.F.L., to speak for those who are voiceless.

    After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

    It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

    It should go without saying that I love my country and I’m proud to be an American. But, to quote James Baldwin, “exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”

    I can’t find words that appropriately express how heartbroken I am to see the constant smears against Colin, a person who helped start the movement with only the very best of intentions. We are talking about a man who helped to orchestrate a commercial planeful of food and supplies for famine-stricken Somalia. A man who has invested his time and money into needy communities here at home. A man I am proud to call my brother, who should be celebrated for his courage to seek change on important issues. Instead, to this day, he is unemployed and portrayed as a radical un-American who wants to divide our country.

    Anybody who has a basic knowledge of football knows that his unemployment has nothing to do with his performance on the field. It’s a shame that the league has turned its back on a man who has done only good. I am aware that my involvement in this movement means that my career may face the same outcome as Colin’s. But to quote the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., “A time comes when silence is betrayal.” And I choose not to betray those who are being oppressed.

    I have too often seen our efforts belittled with statements like “He should have listened to the officer,” after watching an unarmed black person get shot, or “There is no such thing as white privilege” and “Racism ended years ago.” We know that racism and white privilege are both very much alive today.

    And it’s disheartening and infuriating that President Trump has referred to us with slurs but the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, Va., as “very fine people.” His remarks are a clear attempt to deepen the rift that we’ve tried so hard to mend.

    I am nevertheless encouraged to see my colleagues and other public figures respond to the president’s remarks with solidarity with us. It is paramount that we take control of the story behind our movement, which is that we seek equality for all Americans, no matter their race or gender.

    What we need now is numbers. Some people acknowledge the issues we face yet remain silent bystanders. Not only do we need more of our fellow black and brown Americans to stand with us, but also people of other races.

    I refuse to be one of those people who watches injustices yet does nothing. I want to be a man my children and children’s children can be proud of, someone who faced adversity and tried to make a positive impact on the world, a person who, 50 years from now, is remembered for standing for what was right, even though it was not the popular or easy choice.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?mcubz=0

  • Michael Riggins

    Benjamin Corey, I served during peacetime (78 to 82), and can’t lay claim to any extraordinary dedication, any sacrifices beyond performing my assigned duties. I was a floundering young man with no idea of what to do with my life, and in truth, I never liked the service. Yet in that time the people I served with, from so many backgrounds, from almost every ethnic group, every part of America, from territories, religions, sexual orientation, etc, etc. ALL of them affirmed that the most important redeeming factor of their enlistment (happy or not), was taking the stand to protect America’s liberties, chief amongst these – free speech.
    Whatever one may say, if they are not advocating for free speech, they are not advocating for liberty, nor are they advocating for America.
    Thank you for your fine essay.

  • Ok. What is the stance of the left on this issue?
    How is Race part of this discussion in the first place. It’s either Free Speech or it’s not Free Speech.
    Are you saying because the player is Black is not just Free Speech: any criticism of that is also Racist. I think you are.
    Well we on the Right have had enough of that with a black President; no criticism allowed there – it’s racism. Please.
    The Left is simply using this issue to try to hurt the President just like they always do – but it won’t work.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Hi. I’m a white liberal who spent 4 years in the Army. I’ve never said “All white people are racist.” I’m perfectly aware of the point of the protest; as are most of the people I know, even the conservatives. Don’t project your views onto everybody else. It’s dishonest.

    I find your post hypocritical. This cry about “the dissenters have free speech too!” never seems to get applied to folks the Right disagrees with. Conservatives routinely tell me that I should shut up because I disagree with them and I ruin their “It’s about supporting the troops!” talking point. When liberal groups call for boycotts we get accused of “censorship” and “persecution” but when Rightwingers do same they’re “using their First Amendment rights” and “standing up for their beliefs.”

    If Obama had called conservative players who took knee during the National Anthem “sons of bitches” and yelled about how they should be fired you wouldn’t be here talking about how he had the right to say it. You’d be condemning him worse than we’re condemning Trump.

    So why the double standard?

  • Olive

    Mr. Kaepernick chose to take a knee to protest what he sees as unfair discrimination in policing. “There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

    The Left’s position, I suppose, is to say let’s do something about it. Let’s address the issue. If there is no problem, what better way to prove it than to examine it head-on. But instead we’re just ignoring it. Until our country listens to the citizens who live their days feeling they have a target on their backs, Mr. Kaepernick should not be told to shut up.

    As for free speech, I’ll grant that you have just as much freedom to claim offense as the players have to sit out the anthem. But I do expect a more thoughtful, mature response from a POTUS than “Get that son of a b*tch off the field right now.”

  • Baby_Raptor

    lol

    Obama faced daily death threats. A pastor printed bumper stickers encouraging people to pray for the deaths of his kids. Rightwing personalities made careers out of insulting him daily.

    You’re right–Nobody criticized him because he’s black. They insulted and degraded him for it. The worst that happened was some of the people threatening his life got visits to ensure that they were just blowing smoke.

    You’re so censored.

  • Baby_Raptor

    I wish these people would stop thanking me for my service. They don’t appreciate it. They appreciate being able to use me as a talking point until I tell them to stop. Then they get angry because I’m not being a proper, quiet little puppet.

  • Herm

    I am torn on that point. I understand and agree because it is at best habitual good manners … but … I was spit on by friends when I returned from Vietnam. I would prefer one to the other.

  • Baby_Raptor

    I totally respect your view. You served in a completely different time than I did and your experience was very different.

    I apologize if my complaint was offensive.

  • Herm

    we’re good

  • Matthew

    Thanks for your service. Thanks for your viewpoint. Thanks.

  • Bones

    Come on Ben. You sacrificed for the good people who are Neo-Nazis to march against Jews, not black sons of bitches to protest against police brutality.

  • Chris Wilson

    I served with a few idiots just like this one.

  • Kevin Morgan

    This is a good piece, but you did get something wrong, Ben. The First Amendment doesn’t “grant” rights, it protects them. Our rights are inherent, and the Constitution simply acknowledges that fact. If we’d ever accept that they are “granted”, then we’d accept that they could be taken away.

  • Kevin Morgan

    Such a deep, well articulated response, Chris.

  • All Presidents have faced death threats. It’s comes with the job.
    As the Leftwing personalities insult the current President daily.

    Obama was elected twice mostly by the white vote. Unfortunately his second campaign split the country playing to the identity politics we are discussing right here and right now. We are fortunate that God decided not to destroy our country from within just yet and elected a man who doesn’t need to steal, lie and cheat us while in power; it could have been Hillary and then in addition to racism we would be in a sexism war with half the women in the country.

  • I feel sorry for the people who believe the Left’s current propaganda about Police. if the left was concerned about black people they would stop the mass murders happening in our big cities daily like Chicago. Please explain to me why these drug related gang killings are allowed to continue while the Left cries police brutality, KKK and Russia. It is obvious if you will take a breath and examine the situation.

    Further, Kaepernick has not been told to shut up but encouraged to continue his crusade. It is growing is it not.
    Our President doesn’t have to speak in soothing tones to a public that doesn’t want to listen. It’s time for direct and plain speaking. The Left is dividing us for its own purpose and it must be stopped and stopped now. How does this help anyone?

  • Obama did everything he could to promote racial unrest when he had the opportunity. Two quotes: “The police acted stupidly, Trevon could have been my son.” He would speak out from the hip just as Trump and he never got called out for it by the liberal media because they are the Left’s propaganda machine. The double standard? Hardly.

  • terri mertz

    I appreciate it sir. My dad was career military, serving in combat in two wars and waiting to be called up for a third.

  • Ok, I’m sorry, but no political party has legislative control over the behavior of gangs. Your scenario is a false equivalence. It’s not as though Democrats are sitting around going, “Ok, let’s crack down on police brutality, but let’s leave the gang violence policy bill off the table.” Unless you’re suggesting that the best way to control gang violence is to allow police greater freedom to shoot people. People have legislative control over the behavior of police, and we expect the police to behave according to a higher standard than gangs. That does not strike me as hypocrisy because the situations are not equivalent in any way.

    Much like I expect the President of the United States to behave according to a higher standard than a seven year old, but we don’t always get what we want.

  • Olive

    His movement is growing, perhaps thanks to your Mr. Trump.

  • Ron McPherson

    Maybe Bob just had a change of heart

  • Paula Champion Jones

    Bravo! Well-said. Keep speaking Truth.

  • ExtremePacifist

    You made a big mistake joining that terrorist gang called the USA Babylon, you did nothing for Jesus or His Kingdom, you should renounce your sins of being a part of that evil satanic military, and tell everyone to turn their back on that flag. you are not serving Jesus by serving the USA Babylon empire. Peace.

  • Democrats have been in control of major cities Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore and Philadelphia for so long no one can remember a republican. Chicago’s last GOP mayor was elected in 1927. The murder rate is an embarrassment to the world. Let’s take Chicago run by Obama’s Chief of Staff, Rob Emanuel:
    Number of people murdered in Chicago this year: 500! Did you get this? 500! Let me state it again: “West Side slaying on Sunday marks Chicago’s 500th official homicide for 2017.” And again, “Chicago: 75% of Murdered Are Black, 71% of Murderers Are Black.

    From the Washington Post: “730 people have been shot and killed by police in 2017 – 165 people shot and killed by police
    were Black. Let’s start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post’s tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36.

    I’ll say it’s a false equivalence. Black men in Chicago alone shot and killed 355 people while police shot and killed 16 unarmed black men in this year in the nation..

  • I didn’t realize that the mayor was responsible for fighting crime! Thanks for the clarification. I’m sure all the police are Democrats, too.

    But the point that obviously went over your head is that the government does not dictate the policies of street gangs. They dictate the policies of their police forces. You’re basically saying Congress shouldn’t worry about sexual scandals while there are rapists out there.

    I mean, what are the squirrels who live in your skull telling you? That police departments should stop coming up with codes of behavior for their officers and enforcing them and, instead, come up with codes of behavior for street gangs?

    “Hey, 37th Street Rollers, we got together and voted that you guys should be less brutal, so let’s make that happen. This is a top priority for our city right now, so let us know what your plan is to reduce the brutality of your gang members so we can stay on track!”

    And I also love your other defense.

    “Yeah, we shot and killed some unarmed black men, but it wasn’t very many. And you know, street gangs do this all the time, so why are you being so hard on us?” I mean, on what planet is “street gangs do this a lot more than I do” a valid defense of your behavior?

  • Your original reply was better. “I didn’t realize that the mayor was responsible for fighting crime!” Do you need to take a remedial high school civics course?
    Of the 16 unarmed black men killed, who said they were killed in cold blooded murder? They are in adjudication. If you think police are hunting down and killing black men in the street you are simply uninformed. If you can’t understand why it is wrong to make light of 500 murders in one American city you have blinders on. Thanks God for our President and his Attorney General.

  • Herm

    Bob, thank you for being the perfect example of applied ignorance when we speak of love; as in … of the Lord your God, your good neighbor, your self and your enemy. You demonstrate a very dangerous pseudo form of empathy, compassion, tolerance and forgiveness for your self and what you believe are your own to be protected at all cost of others. The police did act stupidly and “Trayvon” Martin could have been Barrack Hussein Obama’s son, by all outward appearances. There is no equivalency between what white nationalists choose to fight for and those who fight against your narrow minded, narcissistic, in your face “me and mine before all others” mentality.

    This from the Washington Post July 11, 2016:

    U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.

    [Unarmed and black: Police are still killing unarmed black men at higher rates than whites]

    Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.5f18bb71c516

    Read about the 730 police shootings, in graphics that a seven year old could understand if they tried, from 2017 in the Washington Post:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

    You, Bob Shiloh, are the perfect poster child for every other spirit in this world who hates the United States of America. If you really were patriotic (having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country) you too would be taking a knee to fix your own house before you went out to clean up (nuke) another’s. You and your trumped-up god father make me and all of our nation sick, really!

  • Greg Daggett

    Chris your so articulate, thanks for sharing such a well worded rebuttal to a fellow serviceman that only stated, his heart, his beliefs and his courage ( once again ). I wish we had a few hundred thousand more “idiots” like Ben to stand up and be counted to show what a real American believes.

  • Bones

    Gee, all of a sudden vets aren’t too well received when they speak up.

  • Bones

    The US military isn’t satanic nor Babylon. That’s a bit extreme pacifist.

  • Greg Daggett

    Herm I was a vocal critic of the Viet Nam war even though I was only 14 at the time, but more than I hated the war I hated the disrespect shown to the servicemen like you that didn’t choose that war. In the intervening years I have taken every opportunity to express my gratitude to the men that served in that war( actually all wars ) but I will cross the road or walk a distance if I see any sign that this person was in Nam to thank them. I can’t make up to you for your friends spitting on you, but they aren’t spitting anymore but I’m still thanking you and your fellow brothers in arms. Maybe you can take a little peace in that.

  • Greg Daggett

    That was as good as Ben’s post, thank you Herm for saying everything I was thinking but am not articulate enough to have posted.

  • Obama left us with this mess. He did nothing to stop it. His legacy is Racial division across the country, a lackluster economy and a foreign policy mess. Travon Martin was a thug killed by an Hispanic not the Police. Why not get a shirt labeled “Hands Up – Don’t Shoot” and complete your delusion.

  • ExtremePacifist

    read Revelation chapter 18 and tell me what other nation fits that description.

  • Olive

    Genuine question: are you follower of Christ?

  • Greg Daggett

    Bob what do suggest we do, so far all I’ve read out of you is blame the left for dividing us. I’m sorry I’m not left or right or in the middle. I am a human being that cares about the truth and what it represents, not the political rhetoric to promote one side or the other. I do admit though since 45 became POTUS, I have yet to hear anybody on the right side of the racial issue come up with one suggestion on how to UN-DIVIDE OUR COUNTRY. All I hear is blame and name calling and finger pointing. Maybe if you and some of your other right side people spent some time trying to fix the problem instead complaining about the people on the other side trying to do just that, we would take what you say more seriously.

  • Herm

    Thank you Greg!

    After my military commitments were kept, as contracted, I too was a vocal critic of the Vietnam war. Since that time, any such war as that I have been a vocal critic of. I am most a critic of the number of tours that each of our soldiers must endure today, that were kept to a minimum during my tour. Each time in a combat zone our combatants and their support personnel lose a bit of themselves that they can never retrieve. Most permanent scars of war, for each and every participant, are not physically visible. I grieve for those we’ve lost and those who return who have to live with those losses. As Ben alluded to, just the isolation from our homes, for extended periods of time, takes more of a toll on our military personnel than our nation can repay.

    I do take peace in so many having learned that soldiers do not precipitate the wars, they serve the civilians who do. I am frustrated in watching so much progress to respect and love so many more in my nation, than when I served, being lost to misguided nationalism. As a world leading nation we set the example by how we live and the goodness of our example is very quickly eroding, beginning with the Iraq war and now in our political Jim Crowing of labor unions, the elderly, the brown, the black and the non-white Christian. My true peace is only found today from those who in everything attempt to do to others as they would have others do to them, at home and abroad.

    Thank you, again, for your example!

  • James Fecteau

    This vet is grateful…… Thank you!!

  • Greg Daggett

    Once again Bob, pointing out the bad, got any answers or do you just cherry pick things to complain about because you can freedom or speech and expression. It is easy to pick lots of things that are disagreeable and complain about them, it is quite another thing to stand up and be counted as a person trying to fix/change the problem. I don’t see that from you, you just stand up to complain, which is fine it’s your right, but don’t expect anybody to take you seriously as a person that is concerned about the problem itself.

  • Reading your profile a little bit just now you seem like a very disturbed person. How are you?

  • I also thank God for our President, because he illustrates that evangelicals will vote for the Antichrist himself as long as he pretends to respect their values.

    Hey, I wonder if the police know that it’s ok to rape people. I mean, normally I’d say it wasn’t ok for a police officer to do that at all, but you’ve helped me understand that, since street gangs rape way more people than the police do, then we should focus on gangs raping each other and just let the police do whatever. You could probably get a job on Trump’s cabinet with that kind of ethical reasoning.

  • Herm

    President Obama did not leave us with this mess. Presidents are not dictatorial father figures in a democracy of the people, by the people and for the people. There are three legs of government in the United States of America of which only two years of President Obama’s eight year capable administration were not hamstrung by an obstructionist congress. We could actually say that just in the overwhelming record number of cloture invoked from 2007 to 2012, by the GOP, that the Obama administration was obstructed for his entire term.

    You follow in self enforced ignorance the inciter and chief as though someone else can fix your problem as your parents had to do when you were a child. The name of the 17 year old deceased individual you demean without unbiased knowledge is Trayvon Martin, not Travon Martin. The word “an” is only used before a “h” when the “h” is silent, which is not the case in the word “Hispanic”. Trayvon was not a thug. That was and is, again, white national propaganda to whitewash how stupid the police acted. It should not have mattered, at all, whether the unarmed victim of gun violence was black, or the assailant was brown, to the police chartered to serve and protect all of their community of responsibility equally; not in a nation of laws built on the principle that all men are created equal.

    As long as you continue to throw out uneducated divisive epithets, such as left’s propaganda machine, liberal media, thug, Hispanic (as though significant), lackluster economy (when having averted a full blown depression inherited from the previous administration), foreign policy (when having to repair the previous administration’s destructive unilateral foreign policies), progressive divisiveness, and so many more throughout your influence here, it is you who is the problem offering no solutions to the growing racial, economic, foreign, healthcare, and religious divides throughout our nation and the world.

    The only contribution to racial division, made by President Obama, was having the uppity audacity to become President of the United States of America while appearing Black to a White Nationalist’s eye.

    DELUSION: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

    Your delusion is being fed by racist propaganda (information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view) generated by less than 35% of our nation who fear the growing population of influence that is not of Caucasian Christian heritage.

    It is your responsibility to study all sources available to you to find the truth, not that of selected Social Media feeds, biased cable networks, and especially biased network feeds such as Breitbart. The present course for the economy, social advancement, and foreign policy leads right back to the 1930’s with sweat shops, dust bowls, the Third Reich, and the Great Depression. You know, when America was great with no Black vote (until 1965) and clearly no racial divide (which you insist President Obama is most responsible for). You are shirking your responsibility to be an informed participant in the future of the United States of America, the whole United States of America influenced by all constructive and supportive (or no) religions, heritages, genders, and sexual attractions.

  • VisionaryJax

    Oh, Benjamin, thank you!!! I have been trying and trying to figure out why people keep saying this protest is disrespectful to veterans, and they keep saying the veterans fought for the flag and the fallen died for the flag and this disrespects the flag. YOU gave me exactly what I’ve needed to hear: you sacrificed, not for a flag, but for a core value of liberty that the protesters are exercising just as they should, in a non-violent way. It’s shutting them down that disrespects your sacrifice. Thank you for saying this. God bless you.

  • Kevin J

    As one who also served and left parts of myself that I’ll never recover – Thank you!!! for your words. That is exactly what I’ve been thinking: My oath is protect and defend the constitution, fundamental to which is the right to free speech, protest and equal protection under the law. Antithetical to the constitution is anyone who says “You can’t protest; you can’t speak up.” BTW: I’ve been wondering if the president, as commander in chief, is subject to UCMJ.

  • Thin-skinned? What does that mean?

  • Yes. But unlike most on this site I believe in the bible.

  • Mark Leyba

    Benjamin, thank you for your service and your well thought out words.

  • Herm, we have been here before. The reason Hillary was not elected was because people did not want more of wonder boy. You answer your own question. President Obama was a failure because he could not govern. The great Presidents found a way to work with the Congress they were given. Obama failed at this most important part of his job. He was not elected to sign executive orders as you can now see being dismantled one by one.
    Trayvon was most certainly a thug and he was shot by an Hispanic not the police over a fight he picked.
    Obama is the only President to fail to one annual get 3% GDP growth; Failure!
    White people elected Obama twice; they wanted him to succeed but he did not.

  • Obscurely

    Shame on your trolling this post sir, of all the posts you could troll …

  • Obscurely

    ???????

  • Les Mayer

    I’m just curious what you do with Galatians 3:28, Matthew 5:44, and Luke 6:32. There are lots of others I could list, these are just the first that come to mind. I’m sincere with this question so please don’t take it as confrontational.

  • Les Mayer

    Well said, thanks Ben. I served as well and agree with you wholeheartedly.

  • Greg,
    Healing is not possible while the Left spends every second trying to delegitimize our President.
    The Media, the papers, Hollywood and the Democrats have jet to accept the President: Impeach 45, Impeach 45 says Maxine, Russia hacked the election says CNN, NBC and CBS daily, Trump is a racist and a KKK supporter, Hillary says Trump is deranged and cannot be trusted with the nuclear codes.
    However, Trump will prevail in the end.

  • We on the right did the one thing and the only thing that can right our sinking ship: elected Trump. Even though everyone imaginable said Hillary would win God said otherwise and made them all look like fools.
    It will take some time but slowly the ship will turn and the economy will recover, the world will fear us again, the average citizen will not fear speaking out and our boarders will be controlled.

  • Sure Les. Too many posts today. I am not sure what the question is: “Which parts?” Can you restate it please.

  • Herm

    You do not listen, you do not read, you do not comprehend. You spew far right, ultra conservative dung that borders on the destructive side of the neo-Nazi mentality, without any facts of your own. Your deluded facts, regarding Hillary Clinton, came mostly from the Soviet spawned propaganda that you got either first hand, or second hand, from Facebook, FOX News, Twitter, Breitbart, the National Enquirer and/or Wikileaks. The prevailing opinions of both parties in the race agreed that President Obama would have won in a third term race.

    If those who controlled the purse strings, the Republican controlled House of Representatives, would have done more than vote for the repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act over 50 times in four years, maybe, they could have focused on our economy instead. So far there has been no help there from either side of congress in the Trump tenure.

    You are not healthy for mankind.

  • Herm

    … but do you believe Christ can lead you, personally, today?

  • Herm

    How about all of Galatians 3:28, Matthew 5:44, and Luke 6:32?

    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Galatians 3:28 (NIV2011)

    But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

    Matthew 5:44 (NIV2011)

    “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

    Luke 6:32 (NIV2011)

  • Now the Liberal comes: all Evangelicals will vote for Satan.
    Do the police know it is ok to rape women?

    Tell me are you doing a Bones impersonation? Because, this reply is childish.

  • Herm

    Are you a Russain computer generated bot? I am certain President Putin thanks you for your service as a beloved cyber comrade!

  • Bones

    Ancient Rome.

  • Bones

    Aaaah yes trump the messiah.

    He”s made a mess alright but he”s no messiah.

    Bob, the perfect example of the evangelicals who sold their soul to lies and hysteria.

  • Bones

    No, that’s Trump.

  • Bones

    Maybe a bit obscure for you.

    The freedom of Neo-Nazis to protest takes precedence over the freedoms of black people to protest.

  • Baby_Raptor

    “The police acted stupidly, Trevon could have been my son.”

    How do these statements “promote racial unrest”?

    I like how you dismissed my claim on a double standard without addressing it at all. Quality honest debating, there.

  • Bones

    Hey guys, it’s only Trump trying to manipulate the racists in Alabama to vote for his boy.

    But not even that dog whistling worked.

    Welcome Roy Moore to the US Senate.

    What hideous creatures you have in American politics.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Not all presidents face daily death threats because of their race. Further, if you’re going to complain about how “Leftwing personalities” insult Trump daily then you’re going to have to explain how the Rightwing folks doing it to Obama was different and okay. Obama got insulted for absolutely nothing; are you aware that Fox repeatedly insulted him for liking spicey mustard? Or that his use of paper clips to hold paper together was a tool they used to degrade him?

    Obama was elected twice mostly by the white vote…We are fortunate that God decided not to destroy our country from within just yet and elected a man who doesn’t need to steal, lie and cheat us while in power;..

    Interesting. When it’s somebody you agree with “god” elected them but when it’s somebody you hate then democracy is working the way it should. How does this little decision of yours handle the fact that Trump should never have won because Hillary got over 3 million more votes?

    it could have been Hillary and then in addition to racism we would be in a sexism war with half the women in the country.

    You mean in addition to the one the Right is already waging on half the human race? Or would the “war” have been telling Christians that you can’t deny people bodily autonomy and healthcare based on how you translate some sentences in a book?

  • Les Mayer

    I edited my previous so as not to come across in a negative way, sorry about that. I just wonder how you deal with those verses that are so black and white. I find personally that Jesus trumps partisan politics, all politics. As a follower of Jesus and a citizen of the Kingdom of God all worldly national interests take a back seat, whether American, North Korean, English, Ethiopian, whatever. There would appear to me to be no exceptions or qualifications to the verses I mentioned, and as a submitted follower of Jesus all other considerations take a second seat to everything He expects of me. Jesus was, and is, neither conservative or liberal. He is, just plain and simple, my King.

  • Melissa Copen

    Thank You for your service and for taking the time to write this. I pray EVERYBODY reads it and tries to understand.

    BLESS YOUR HEART ❤

  • Yes! But why did they do it?!

  • No. The Left has decided the NFL is a target and must be dealt with. They are pursuing this and the NFL is an unwitting participant in their own demise.

  • What did you say?

  • And you say I can’t read. Well look at you…

  • Obama’s comments were made without access to all the facts. He promoted the idea that Trevon was killed for walking in a white neighborhood where he did not belong. The Hispanic neighborhood watch person was called a “white Hispanic” when it was later learned that he was indeed an Hispanic not a White. That is how he promoted racial discord.

    The double standard you refer to is most clearly understood by the those who watch and listen to both sides of the many arguments. In and of itself it is meaningless.

  • Herm

    You heard that one!

  • Herm

    So that’s your answer?

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    considering that blacks commit 53% of violent crime is it any wonder that 50% of the people shot are black?
    64% of cops that are killed on duty by other people are killed by blacks.

  • boisepoet

    Although the protest is not over a flag or an anthem, even if it was, the day we elevate pieces of cloth or music above personal freedom is the day we’ve slipped into fascism.
    Signed,
    – Another vet tired of non-vet chicken-hawks misinterpreting patriotism and the military.

  • Herm

    You really don’t get it, do you?

    … or do you get it and you’re a Russian bot, hummm?

  • Bones

    Why did the Pharisees crucify the Christ????

    Right wing Evangelicals would do the same.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9fadd345d762f7839b9f79344c7dfa04fb4494d8efd789532cdde4572a771a31.jpg

  • Oscar Madison

    I’ve been wondering the same. After all he is the Commander in Chief. If he is then he’s certainly guilty of conduct unbecoming.

  • Bones

    Because blacks live in ghettos and poor areas……as a consequence of white planners….

    A ‘Forgotten History’ Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

    http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america

    Interactive Redlining Map Zooms In On America’s History Of Discrimination

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/19/498536077/interactive-redlining-map-zooms-in-on-americas-history-of-discrimination

    And the issue is police shooting innocent blacks…..

  • Bones

    No…he would crucify him again as a leftie….

  • Oscar Madison

    The US is a hegemony but not an empire.

  • Bones

    Did you find Obama’s birth certificate yet, Bob?

  • Oscar Madison

    We do have quite a few Greg. Here’s a lot of them. VoteVets.org. and the FB page; https://www.facebook.com/votevets Sorry Ben if that’s not allowed. Delete if necessary.

  • Bones

    Lol…..you’re pretty thin skinned like your hero…

    Now there’s a surprise.

    Do you need a cuddle because the bad black men are bending the knee?

    There…there….it’ll be alright…….

  • Baby_Raptor

    So…Obama promoted racism by telling the truth. Got it.

    The double standard you refer to is most clearly understood by the those who watch and listen to both sides of the many arguments.

    Next time you want to say “It’s okay because I’m right” just say “It’s okay because I’m right,” please. It’s less bullshit and erasing than saying “Ignoring half the political spectrum has no consequences.”

  • Baby_Raptor

    Also, you condemn “arguing without access to all the facts” but you can’t even spell Trayvon Martin’s name right and you claimed that the man who brags about ignoring the facts before he forms an opinion was “elected by god.”

    Somebody needs to remind themselves what Jesus said about hypocrisy. Spoiler: He condemned it.

  • The pharisees were literally anti-Christ. The Spirit within people here in USA, as days roll on, are becomming darker. With each atrocity the unthinkable is becoming the new normal. I wonder is it possible to love your enimies? Christ intimated such but how is it possible? At the last moment, almost his last breath he asked God to forgive them. His reason? They know not what they do! But what does one do with the anguish of grief & loss? What does one do with the anger?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5a61a8aa50b896c96d44b39531de5bef6587d346f36266b7cc16c251f50034ea.jpg

  • Oscar Madison

    I was taught by my father to despise those hippie protesters of the Vietnam War. One day back when I was young and dumb I was spewing my hate and a man walked up to me and said; “I’m a Vietnam Vet. I don’t appreciate the protesters blaming me and spitting on me, but I certainly appreciate them protesting and speaking out. Otherwise I might still be in Vietnam right now”. My father left the family when I was a teen. It took a few years and determination by my mother, but she successfully made me rethink everything my father had taught me. I’m a much better man today because of her.

  • Bones

    Lol, there were half a dozen players taking the knee until your messiah opened his big trap and poured petrol on the fire. Kaepernick doesn’t even have a gig.

    Now there’s hundreds – all pretty pissed that he described white Nazis as ‘good people’ while black people were ‘sons of bitches’..

    As for Chicago – a lot of the problem is poverty…..which is seeing more and more cuts to welfare programs.

    Examining The Reasons For Chicago’s Violence

    Jesse Jackson

    ” I was coming down on sixth or seventh street from the airport a few days ago, and the houses where people were working in the Midway area with jobs and manicured lawns and the like, you could see a developed community with employed parents and the diesel school down the street. You cross over another street, you begin to see boarded houses, and you begin to see vacant lots and high weeds and closed grocery stores out of those communities which are breeding violence. They are targets for the drug trade, the targets for the gun trade. These children are shooting automatic weapons at 9 and 10 and 12 years of age.

    And now you have this police-community tension ’cause you can’t police poverty. You must eliminate poverty. You must educate children, employ parents, provide transportation. Chicago’s inner city has been treated unlike the rest of the city, and the results are predictable.

    Of course, it’s fixable. I repeat to you, if you in fact were to employ people right now, begin to do the landscaping – all these weeds in the inner city – jobs, SBA loans. That’s why we’ve asked for a White House conference on violence causes and cures. It’s scientific. It’s not natural. This is social and political. It encumbers on racial disparities which should be abhorrent and is, in fact, illegal. You look at the impact of poverty. People who often have fewer aspirations, they think they can’t make it, their spirits are broken, they are perplexed. We must break that cycle and give people hope. Hope matters.”

    “We just asked them for four basic things. One, we want a White House conference on violence causes and cures; two, racial and gender disparities – the gaps are very clear – three, to address the impact of poverty which is a weapon of mass destruction and a plan to put people back to work. And it will work if we try it. We have ideas, but so far we can’t be heard.”

    http://www.npr.org/2016/09/03/492549546/examining-the-reasons-for-chicagos-violence

    This is your type of menatlity

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12011ce3711c0873fc4e1d4c3a642b0f98ea34bc3d173e5500e5115271eeeee7.png

  • Bones

    Welcome to Bob’s world, Baby Raptor.

  • Oscar Madison

    Boom! Mic drop.

  • Bones

    Also the pharisees didn’t have social media……

  • I’m looking at a very interesting
    (sept. 27
    PBSnewshour

    https://youtu.be/x_MwlW9sjJE ) show right now on this:

    Cognitive closure (psychology), the human desire to eliminate ambiguity and arrive at definite conclusions (sometimes irrationally)
    Cognitive closure (philosophy), the idea that only certain things are understandable by beings like us.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_closure

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ec40734c8a387ae2eaebed04e86895dec07fa561d0653cff70022837ba074ccb.jpg

  • kwkurtz44

    Thank you for your service, and for stating my views so elequently.

    If you look at history you can see how false patriotism can be a tool for anarchy.

  • Bones

    Who is this Left that is making these decisions?

    A bunch of black players who sees their president with double standards. Heck even pro-trump owners have called Trump out.

  • Bones

    Unfortunately what we’re seeing now is cultic thinking where rationality and facts give way to my side is always right and the other is always wrong.

  • Oscar Madison

    Apparently the President is not accountable under the UCMJ because Commander in Chief is a civilian position.

  • Sue Stelling

    Thank you Benjamin. I read your post 1/2 hr. ago and I’ve just stopped crying so maybe I can post. My brother served (foot shoulder in the Army, know his division had a horse-stallion as their mascot ) in Viet Nam during the Tet offensive. Like a true Vet, he’s told me very little, and what he HAS told me, makes me “cringe” of how our Country handled this “war.” He is now in a nursing home, suffering not only PTSD but also Parkinson, from exposure from Agent Orange. He’s 72 and doesn’t want to get any older. So, when I backed on FB of our athletes, I could take the vile responses. My Brother served, and served well. He gave up his living life.

  • Sue Stelling

    Clue us civilians,, What does UCMJ mean? I’ve got part of it … “Unbecoming Conduct … ?

  • Oscar Madison

    So everyone you disagree with is whining if they express that opinion but you and your “millions” can express whatever you like and it’s not only perfectly ok, it’s absolutely right. Have I got it about right now?

  • In my humble opinion I think it’s fortunate that one sees and one has awareness that one is given Grace To discern that cultic thinking gives way to binary thinking rather than rationality and facts.

    How does one counter the narrative one grew up believing that one’s white privilege gives them the right to exclude and vilifying others
    making them scapegoats for ones unacknowledged darker impulses, obsessions and compulsions?

    I think one needs honest, understanding non-shaming friends to help one transition. Cold-cock calling them out on their b*******? does it really help heal them? I think one is likely to dig in their heels even deeper in their misery and temptation to perpetrate violence on vulnerable others.

    While trying to live in the solution to remedy my own problems of homophobia, xenophobia, racism and I have found some relief studying up on coping and defense mechanisms with a mind to understand myself and others and stop guilt-tripping myself or anyone else.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7f32e770ba6de7f15ee17c1d800df923b0e0f840056584243d303beb343ae747.jpg

    We’re only human and this is a human problem that needs a solution. I do not want to get stuck on the side that thinks it is always right to point out the others flaws and calling them names. I have a long way to go to Master my bad habits But for the grace of God I am still on the wrong side of an issue with regard to justifying mistreatment of another human showing contempt for their behavior rather than trying to understand where they’re coming from.

  • Barry

    Uniform Court of Military Justice

  • Barry

    Stop it, Please, I can’t breathe I’m laughing so hard Serving Jesus? You’re Pat Robertson, aren’t you?

  • Baby_Raptor

    I don’t want to stay. Is there an exit?

  • Bones

    Lol…those bad black men have really caused you to melt, snowflake.

    Come here and give ol bones a cuddle.

  • ExtremePacifist

    except for the end times judgment part of the book of Revelation. Rome fell and the world continued. in the end times Babylon, Judgment, and all that goes with it, will be greater than at any other time in history. the only thing we need to do to get ready is give our lives completely to Christ Jesus and love Him and love all people. and we can love all people without supporting their sinful acts of war and violence.

  • Herm

    Thank you Oscar , you’re a good man, and I thank your mother for her determination.

    I was sitting in a tent, in country, reading a Stars and Stripes, of which the headline was congress was going to make dissent illegal. I nearly walked out into the jungle to never go home, again. What were we there for if not the right to disagree? As a soldier I could not dissent in action, my buddies’ lives depended upon me, but I could always leave after, when quiet. It turned out that congress did not outlaw dissent, so I remained to serve out my contract honorably for my parents and in support of my buddies.

    When I got home, to California, as a civilian, I was a hippie, a cowboy, a student, a grocery clerk and many more characters of association. I never protested outwardly but I never could attend any one of my friends’ memorials, who later had died in Vietnam, because I couldn’t face their families with what I knew. Scars…

  • Herm

    Lynn, you really don’t get the picture, do you?

    I served and have the DD214 to prove it, as a combat vet. Nothing about that picture was meant to insinuate a “foray”. All that Ben has written, relative to military sacrifice, “rings true”. Read it!

    Turn me into the Guardians of Valor if that will help you wake up!

  • Carl Clark

    Uniform CODE of Military Justice!!!! Our legal books. The laws the military lives by.

  • Carl Clark

    People need to calm down a little, including me. But, a few things to consider:
    about the NFL protests. They have failed on three counts. First a protest should galvanize your supporters on the issue. The method of protest they chose has divided the camp between those who believe sitting for the National Anthem is correct and those who know it is not. Failure number one.
    Secondly, what people fail to realize is that “We the people of the United States” (the first line of the Constitution) are the Republic for which that flag stands. The flag belongs to us not to the government. The government changes every two years when there is an election. The flag hasn’t fundamentally changed in 240 years. When Trump was elected we didn’t take down the Obama Flag and put up the Trump Flag, no, the flag stayed because it represents “We The People”. So when they choose that method of protest they are actually protesting themselves, me, you, our families, George Washington and his fight for independence, Abraham Lincoln and his fight against slavery, Martin Luther King and his fight against discrimination, they are protesting all efforts throughout history that have made this “a more perfect union.” Not getting out an appropriate message is failure two.
    Lastly and most importantly, when Colin Kaepernick began this he was trying to bring attention to a very important issue. An issue that needs to be addressed. The NFL players have successfully shifted the focus from that issue to them. People no longer talk about the original issue at hand, now they just talk about the players and what they will do at the next game. It is now more about them than the original issue. I can tell you this if I were a group trying to get the attention of the nation onto a cause I would ask the athletes not to help, they would just be a distraction from what is important. Failure number three.
    US Army Special Forces Retired
    De Oppresso Liber

  • “Respect our vets! … But only the ones who agree with us! And aren’t homeless! Or were ever captured and taken as POWs! It’s all about respecting our flag and voting for people who made it into a poncho!”

  • Bones

    Yeah nah.

    Revelation is describing the first century dude.

    It’s genre was quite common in the first century.

  • Thanks for this!

  • Les Mayer

    The camo and field jacket he’s wearing in the picture are exactly the same as I was issued in the Marines in 86-90, I don’t think camo changed from this pattern significantly until around the time of Desert Storm. (Somebody can correct me here if I’m wrong, but this is what I recall. We had either the green woodland pattern or the winter whites, I don’t remember there being a whole lot of other options. We sure didn’t have the fashion runway of patterns they have now.) You also mention fastened helmets, sun gear (I don’t know what that is), etc. I was on more than a few field ops and did a stint on a joint exercise with the Turkish Army out in the desert, life in the field was never so perfect as you seem to portray it. The crux of the matter is Ben never claims this pic to be combat related, maybe it is, maybe it’s just a casual field op photo, what’s the difference? As someone who would have looked pretty identical to this in dress and manner while in the Corps on field ops from 86-90 I find it slightly offensive that you would call Ben (or anyone) out and question the legitimacy of his service based on nothing more than your unqualified opinion.

  • Of course Jesus trumps politics. Those verses don’t seem to be on point? The National Anthem is not the enemy. Our government is the best expression of any government ever on the face of the earth. To disrespect it publicly seems to be at odds with Jesus teaching as well. This discontent is being sown by the real enemy- the Left. The Left wants to dramatically change our country to fit their vision and they have the money and the means to try. The people who talk about this latest expression of the Left’s orchestration are being used.

  • No. I take issue with the comment that our President is a draft dodger and his statement that he deserves to be disrespected. Neil needs to get over the election as the great criminal, Hillary Clinton, lost and Trump won.

  • Tim

    Guess you weren’t convinced by the picture of him in dress uniform with President Bush, then.

  • Les Mayer

    I didn’t make it about me in any way other than to use my personal experience as a point of reference for defending Ben against your seemingly libelous accusation. I’m quite sure I’m not seeing your rationale here so it’s probably best to end the discussion. Peace to you!

  • Tim

    This is the same reply you’ve used twice now. Repeating the same red herring doesn’t make your point. Two vets have called your bluff and this is the best you can come up with?
    This isn’t about you, either. And nobody “stole valor” here, clearly; unless you count your attempt to steal it from this vet.

  • Les Mayer

    I think Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you is right on point, especially if you’re calling the left the real enemy. There has been discord and discontent sown by both left and right, surely you can admit that. As a follower of Christ I’m expected to rise above all this, I don’t look to government to be the ultimate answer to anything. Like Paul says, For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. These are things no worldly government can fix…ever. We get caught up in pointing fingers and blaming flesh and blood far too often when what we need is to view things more through the lens of the Cross. There is absolutely no one on this planet that God didn’t think was precious enough to sacrifice His Son for and as a follower of Jesus I do well to remember that, we all do. Everyone has worth, despite our fallen human inclinations to believe the opposite at times. As Christians we should be setting the example for what life as one should look like, but far too often our thoughts and actions are steered more by partisan politics than they are by Jesus. When I see a man take a knee for the national anthem what I’m curious about is what has hurt him enough to cause him to take what could possibly be a drastic public measure with huge negative blowback to call attention to his pain? I think instead of worrying quite so much about honoring the flag, maybe for the sake of Christ’s sacrifice we should worry more about honoring humanity. Just my thoughts and how I try to approach life. I’m always curious about other people’s thoughts and approaches as well.

  • Les Mayer

    “To say something really bold: I believe God controls the hell of human society with an infernal machine, the state. Someone may say, “I am going to operate this machine and make it less hellish; I will moderate the satanic properties of hell; I will serve the state.” Such a resolve commands respect. But for myself, I refuse to mount the machines of hell. I will board the ship that shows all humankind the way to the other shore: to the kingdom of peace, justice, and perfect love. We need people who dare to set the course for this other shore, who dare to live in accordance with the ways of the land on the other side. It is the way we can best serve the world in this terrifying moment of history.” -Eberhard Arnold

  • Thanks Les. Rarely has anyone answered me in such a thoughtful and respectful manner. I have much to say in response to this post and will be back later today.

  • Herm

    This isn’t about you. This is about accusing someone without any evidence, laying suspicion to erode truth. Call the Guardians of Valor first if you have concern. Don’t ever impugn another’s validity on imperfect conjecture. This is the same fraudulent tactic that has ignorant people still frenzied today to lock up Hillary Clinton. This is the same fraudulent tactic used by Russia to win our election for their most divisive candidate. This is about stolen reputations and elections. This is about stolen principles that my fallen comrades died for and I am that much more responsible to.

    I am so absolutely angry with your hollow, unsubstantiated, self centered, self serving accusations because you seek to strip another of their reputation either founded on your personal insecurity or in defense of your Russia.

    If valor in combat is all you have to maintain your pride in serving on then I truly pity you. Your scars are greater than mine. I honorably carried that cross in the name of defending my nation as a soldier. Today I carry my cross in the name of defending my entire species. There is no honor or courage in what I do, only love for those I do it for.

    I do all that I do in an honest, productive and constructive effort to improve the whole of mankind in the name of those who fought and died by my side then, and those who fight and die on my side today. Valor is a fleeting value. All who I know today, without exception, will be dead within 120 years and, guaranteed, will be completely forgotten in only ten thousand years out of the 4.5 billion years of our shared planet. Mankind, as a species, has no reason or known time to die if we support it today in truth.

    If you really wish to be a positive force in truth for all mankind, then get substantiated proof before you vilify. This isn’t about you or I. This is about the survival of mankind.

  • Obscurely

    But why impugn a veteran you don’t even know?

  • Herm

    If the flag and the national anthem of any nation oppresses any under the guise of allegiance to a perfect union then there is no room for a more perfect union. You swore an oath to liberate the oppressed of all of mankind throughout this earth and at home. Constitutionally, in the USA, we are free to call the bluff of those who insist on allegiance to symbolic without honoring what that symbol stands for. I take a knee to God. I take a knee to mankind. What is so disruptive to any when taking a knee for the singing of the national anthem and the flag of the United States of America?

    If we don’t recognize that our allegiance is to the truth, not the flag and the national anthem, in a government founded on a principle of the people, for the people and by the people, then we will be responsible for more imperfect solutions that too many of our finest have given life, limb and sanity to; like Vietnam and Iraq.

    Honor your oath of allegiance to liberating the oppressed. Take a knee!

  • Les Mayer

    “Today I carry my cross in the name of defending my entire species. There is no honor or courage in what I do, only love for those I do it for.”

    Very well said my friend, my hat’s off to you.

  • Realist1234

    Have you not seen Forrest Gump? lol

  • Stephanie Wade

    what difference would that make?

  • Stephanie Wade

    love it..

  • Stephanie Wade

    To all those making positive comments Thank you for your service and your sacrifice. It is because of you that I take a knee in UNITY with my brothers and sisters around the world. For those who have left us quietly in death I stand up for the battles lost and won and take a knee to insight UNITY UNITY ✊

  • Bones

    It’s called sarcasm dude.

    Stop being obscure.

  • ExtremePacifist

    do you believe in Jesus and that He is the only way to eternal life? that is all that matters. if you do believe, Jesus tells us to study His Word, and study prophecy. It is your choice to believe and accept or reject in the saving Grace of Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus alone.

  • Kevin J

    Uniform Code of Military Justice. A separate set of legal codes pertaining to members of the armed forces.

  • Nimblewill

    Thanks for your service to the US and thanks for your continued service to the Kingdom of God. I would like for all of you to think of something, A dollar bill. It only has value because of the idea behind it. When we or our government begin to disagree on the value of the dollar bill it will substantially change this country. A flag is simply a piece of cloth. It’s the idea behind it that has meaning. When we begin to disagree on the idea behind the meaning of the flag it will destroy this country.

  • Ron McPherson

    Bob,
    Barack Obama is already regarded in the top 12 of all US Presidents by historians. We have already seen this in preliminary polling (CSPAN for one). Typically, presidents tend to move up in rankings as time goes by so he could ultimately end up in the top 10. And lest you believe these numbers are skewed by liberals, the polling results also include republicans ranked highly and democrats ranked low. So it’s not a partisan issue. In fact, Obama entered the ratings ranked higher right out of the blocks than any president since Reagan (a republican, no less). The rankings were done by over 90 historians and ranked all US presidents on job performance with respect to 10 categories: crisis leadership, economic management, moral authority, public persuasion, administrative skills, international relations, relations with Congress, performance within times/context, vision/agenda, and justice/equality.

  • Ron McPherson

    “Trayvon was most certainly a thug”

    Define what a ‘thug’ is

  • KJinWTexas

    We have no problem with them protesting, but it’s the ‘when’ and the ‘where’ that’s the big problem. The other big problem is they are protesting a lie they created themselves for a condition that doesn’t exist.

  • Ron McPherson

    And that really is the question that should be asked of all professing Christians? In other words, if every bible in the world suddenly disappeared, would one become helpless at that point? If so, then the hard question which then must be asked is this: Then where is the Holy Spirit in one’s life?

  • otrotierra

    Shockingly, the protestors are not seeking your opinion on the matter, nor your permission. Ever wonder why that is?

  • otrotierra

    You forgot to use the “sarcasm” font!

  • Mike Posey

    So, you didn’t comprehend ANYTHING Mr. Corey said, then? Are you a veteran? I took that oath Mr. Corey talked about as well and I FULLY agree with him. LEARN what this fucking country stands for before you claim how patriotic you are.

  • KJinWTexas

    Nor did I seek your opinion or critique, so buzz off.

  • Obscurely

    My letter sent today to an old friend who makes the ‘civic duty’ argument that all should stand for the flag …

    ———————————

    I’ve slept on your argument and I find myself agreeing with it today — but to be honest with an old friend I also find within myself a strong sympathy for the kneelers and their cause …

    Perhaps I’ve shared with you before there’s an American flag right behind my pulpit … I’m sure no one notices it as I preach but each time I move it to the other side of the front of the church, it keeps mysteriously moving back behind my pulpit — probably one of our veterans feels it deserves a place of honor in any church … to avoid offending him and others I’ve decided to fly that ‘higher helicopter’ we talk about and let the flag stay behind me …

    Why would I remove the US flag from our church if I could do it without dividing the congregation? … the answer should be an easy one for committed Christians, but for many it isn’t — “Jesus is Lord,” ergo ‘flag and country’ are manifestly not … as someone who for seven years now has preached the Gospel in its undeniable bias for the victims of power and privilege, I find it my higher Christian duty to honor the hope of those victims above even the civic sacrifices and ideals the flag represents … I will stand during the anthem and at the same time stand with the kneelers at prayer for justice …

    And so dear friend, in the matter of those kneeling at the flag’s anthem, my question for you is the same one I often ask my congregation from the pulpit on any and every question of our troubled day — how is your faith expressing the Good News of God for the oppressed and disinherited?

    Yours in the Lord Christ … R.

  • Larry Holmes

    Thank you, Mr. Corey, for saying so eloquently what I have been attempting to say for quite some time. I, too, served, back in the 70s/80s. I was fortunate to come out with all of my body parts. And I, too, am more angered by POTUS calling for punishment for those protesting than by the protests themselves. And, I, too, don’t need anyone speaking “for me.” Thank you for your service. And thank you for putting into words what I have been stumbling and mumbling trying to say. Thank you.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you for sharing this. U.S. idolatry is indeed profoundly important to White Evangelicals. I imagine virtually all pastors of White-dominant U.S. churches face the same obstacle: how to respond to blatant White Nationalist Supremacy that is the foundation of their congregation’s theology.

  • Herm

    The truth has to be found directly from God, as the most sure truth came from my experienced and responsible parents and not my immature and untried siblings. The really good news (the Gospel of God) we learned from the Messiah was not that He died for our trespasses against divine law, but that we can each be perfectly filled in our spirit (which is in the image of God) by the Spirit of truth as we can bear today. If anyone cannot go directly to their Father for the truth, then they are left to glean what they can from other children the truth of their Father. As it is written, my Father and my Lord Brother can instruct the Holy Spirit, who I am with and in without pause or end, exactly according to my needs and desires as I can bear. As it is written, Christ is in me and I in Him and He is in our Father.

    Bob Shiloh is an example of one in the truth as told him by children of mankind (with the effective credentials of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law), not by actual children of God. He is trained and tested by his temporal peers with the nearly blind perspective of mankind. Children of God are trained and tested by the eternal Spirit of truth with omnipresence with and in the entire kingdom of God with no beginning and no end (not possible carnally) to draw from.

    That is the simplest I can portray what I know to be true today. Bob believes that we are competing with him, much like Caiaphas, the reigning high priest of God’s chosen people, believed Jesus, claiming to be the Christ, was competing with him. Bob is a long way from the credentials of Caiaphas and we each are a long way from the credentials of Christ. Bob is demanding to be served empowered as a more knowledgeable adult of humankind, in the spirit of Caiaphas, while we are looking to serve by bringing others to the Father to be divinely served as are we are as His children, in the Spirit of Christ.

    There was no common Bible for the children of God on earth for over 300 years, and then it could not be read by most of the children of God. Since Christ’s ascension children of God, filled/whelmed/immersed/baptized in the Holy Spirit have boldly spoken the word of God without a Bible. People from all nations converted to follow Christ because of that word, and the example of those who spoke it, without a Bible. I won’t have a Bible when my carnal body dies. I have less than than 47 years max to use any form of a bible to instruct or for instruction. What am I to do for the rest of eternity? Oh, woe is me!

  • Herm

    NO, KJinWTexas, you can “buzz off” if you don’t like the opinions of others, which you solicited by posting your opinion. You are truly full of yourself and your boots are seeping over the top from what you just stepped in. Bring it on, but don’t think you can command the truth to be as low as your ignorance.

  • generalleeme

    Hillary Clinton…the great criminal is little more than political fiction of no substance.

  • Herm

    Just what “condition” is that?

  • generalleeme

    Pure hogwash…and please stop the mindless proselytizing…its pretty childish.

  • generalleeme

    So veteran status comes with special powers including the right to never be criticized? Really…

  • generalleeme

    that is not necessarily a virtue to sane adults.

  • Kay Brady

    I’ve never been in the service, but with regard to your #3, it isn’t the player’s that have changed the narrative of the protest. It’s 45 and all the offended people that have changed the narrative. That’s my observations anyway..

  • Ron McPherson

    People exalt the bible to godlike status. I feel I can say this because, sadly, I may have once been guilty of this myself. There is so much to know, and so little we know already. For years I was guilty of trying to master the bible, as if mastering the text would somehow allow me to master the ways of God. I now see how ridiculous that was. While I remain personally convinced that his death on the cross allow me to have eternal life and a relationship with the spirit, (I feel I heard the Spirit speak loudly and clearly in my heart on that), in times past I would somehow try to figure just precisely, from a theological standpoint, just HOW that all worked haha. Theology is just mankind’s futile attempt to explain God and remains utterly subjective I feel. The more I read the words of Jesus, the more I realize that loving God and neighbor is the key to all of our dealings with one another in our very small time and space here on this earth. Without the Spirit, there is no relationship with God. Love you brother!

  • hootlee

    It sounds as if Lynn just might be one of those Russian Bots that has “infested” the internet. They sometimes just repeat due to not being a real human!

  • With all due respect that’s total hogwash. This is made up to make liberals feel good. Notice that of the 10 categories they do not ask about his overall effectiveness, job creation, deficit management, GDP growth, national security, etc. Half the congress hated him and so the great criminal Hillary was not elected.

  • Well in my opinion it is another definition of insanity.

  • Further, that was good for a laugh. I needed that.

  • Ron McPherson

    Let me guess. They get it right by ranking Reagan high, but suddenly turned liberal when they ranked Obama high too.

  • Ron McPherson

    Uh huh. We’re laughing at you Bob.

  • Obscurely

    Of course that’s not what I said, sir — I’m saying we have an obligation to first respectfully engage with others before we criticize them … and that ridiculing them after that should be rare indeed …

  • gimpi1

    And there are millions of us who disagree with you and aren’t afraid to say it. Note I left out the “whining” insult. You could learn from that. Neil didn’t whine. He stated a view. Why can’t you do the same?

    Now, on to the actual topic:
    Dr. Corey stated his views clearly, He’s the vet you seem to think you were defending on his last blog. He disagrees. Do you get that? Can you reply to it, rather than randomly attacking someone over Mr. Trump? Really you really don’t convince anyone of anything with that sort of thing. You just annoy them, including vets like Dr. Corey.

    As an aside, I do know several vets who are not happy about Mr. Trump’s repeated deferments, and find his casual “tweet us into a war” attitude frightening. There’s no one official “Veteran” position. Perhaps remember that?

  • gimpi1

    Wait, you appear to want some average citizens to fear speaking out – people demonstrating in ways you don’t like.

    Also, why is being feared good? I don’t want to be feared. The countries that beat us out in educational achievement, health, stability, crime-rates and satisfaction of citizens with their government aren’t generally feared. Why do you want people to be afraid? Frightened people make mistakes, sometimes horrific ones. In world where weapons of mass destruction are common around the world, we need less fear, not more.

  • gimpi1

    Since I watched many people on what I guess you would call the right (I, personally, don’t like broad labels, but we’re using your terms) spent the last eight years trying to de-legitimize the last President, even to the point of loudly and repeatedly questioning his right to run for that office and his citizenship. One of my favorite sayings is ‘sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Another is ‘turn about is fair play.’ The very second Mr. McConnell said that the Republican’s top priority was making Mr. Obama a one-term president, the ship of reasonable governance sailed.

    The evidence for Russian interference is pretty good, and not coming from any political group, but from our intelligence services. I consider our intelligence service a pretty reliable source.

    In fact, my husband just came upon a weird element from a website called “the Intercept” which claimed that AP had retracted their story about our intelligence service. The supposed link “proving” this just led to a GIF that had the A.P. logo, but was simply a piece of artwork they used in the story. (That’s always a clue that the story is fake.The links don’t link to anything.) Upon checking the A.P. website, they have printed no such story. I just mention this because they’re so many groups spreading disinformation, be sure of your sources.

  • Bones

    Spent years studying ‘the word’ and ‘prophecies’……

    Grew up in the eras of the Soviet Union, bar codes, United Nations and Islam being Babylon.

    You aren’t any different to Lindsey or LaHaye.

    They aren’t what you say they are….

    You need to get over this complex that people who disagree with you are damned….because you ain’t god.

    And you’re wrong.

  • Bones

    Just to be clear and not obscure,

    I love Ben, he is my brother.

  • Bones

    Yes….it’s called reality.

  • Bones

    Lol…you just declared yourself insane….

    We agree….

  • Bones

    He was a draft dodger….

    No surprise that rich white kids didn’t go to Vietnam….

  • Most of the country, most of the military are aghast at the using the national anthem and the flag as a pawn. Can you get that. You are on the wrong side of this issue. The ratings will keep dropping until this nonsense stops.
    Further, I am not trying to convince anyone on this blog of anything. Liberals cannot be convinced.

  • Your world views are an anathema to this country. Being feared is necessary to prevent the useless slaughter occurring around the world. Under the past administration we let that defense go and it has hurt us.

  • President Obama’s second term came at the price of the current racial division you see now. If you believe that Russia caused Hillary to lose and Trump to win you are not going to like the end result of the investigation.

  • Kathy Ruth

    You don’t know many vets, do you? Or other Americans citizens in general, it seems!

  • Tuco

    What I object to is that Corey touts his military service and service-connected disability to try to claim some sort of additional gravitas in the debate of what ‘taking a knee’ is all about. It has been made perfectly clear by knee-takers from Kaepernick on down that they are refusing to honor the Flag and National Anthem because they, combined, represent White Supremacy. Of course, it’s not a legal matter as to whether they have the right to do that. It’s a simple matter of getting paid handsomely for entertaining, and deciding to cast insult at stadium paid attendees and television viewers, the vast majority of whom don’t deserve it and don’t appreciate it. I’m a Purple Heart combat Veteran rated 100% disabled due to Agent Orange exposure and I differ strongly with Corey about what the current fad of knee-taking is all about. The outrage against the insult will be expressed economically, not legally. It’s decidedly NOT a First Amendment issue, its a matter of decency. And this old Soldier does, indeed, take it personally, as a US Citizen and as a Veteran, that the insulting charge of RACISM is being tarred onto our National Flag and Anthem. In short, Corey, you’re welcome to your opinion on the propriety of the issue, but your military service gives you no special license to couch the issue in leftist perspectives. Opinions, assholes and belly buttons — we’ve all got one.

  • Bones

    Russian influence on the 2016 US Presidential election has already been proven Bob…..and more and more of its influence is being found out everyday.

    The racial division is actually from people like you who don’t really give a shit about what happens to blacks.

  • Bones

    Bet you had no problem with Neo-Nazis marching the streets.

    Heck my family was killing them at one stage.

  • Bones

    I can never work out why sports games are pawns of nationalism and patriotism.

    I would think that cheapens it all.

  • Bones

    I take it NASCAR ratings will rise after they said they will sack anyone who bent the knee.

    Once again you’ve shown you are the quintessential bigoted hypocrite.

    You would’ve squealed like a stuck pig if Obama did what your messiah is doing.

  • Bones

    Dude, sounds like you need to live in North Korea if you want to be feared.

    You can’t remember past Obama can you, like Iraq and Afghanistan…..

  • Bones

    Who’s on the wrong side Bob?

    Poll: 61% Oppose Firing NFL Players Who Refuse to Stand for National Anthem, but 65% of Republicans Say Players Should be Fired

    https://www.cato.org/blog/poll-61-oppose-firing-nfl-players-who-refuse-stand-national-anthem-65-republicans-say-players

    But you won’t be convinced because your head is so far up Trump’s arse.

    I bet you were a draft dodger.

  • Herm

    … but you said you believe this;

    And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

    1 John 4:16-18 (NIV2011)

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)

    When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Matthew 28:17-20 (NIV2011)

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

    Were you lying? You can’t serve two, or more, masters as your arguments suggest. Where is your treasure stored?

    “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    Matthew 6:24 (NIV2011)

    Bob, this isn’t a competition where the one who wins the debate goes to heaven and the loser goes to hell. If your idea to save others from “useless slaughter” is by being feared, you don’t know Him to love the Lord your God. He was slaughtered by those attempting to plant fear. He demands that all who follow Him prepare to to the same in love for all those who don’t know what they do, like you. If you cannot abide in His teaching, be perfect as His Father is perfect, then you cannot inherit anything but to shortly cease to be aware and to have any influence with any others (love or fear) ever again.

    The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. The greatest among the children of God, on earth today, is our Father and our Lord, our only master in the Spirit of truth and perfect love.

  • Bones

    My country doesn’t feel the need to drape everything from sports to religion in patriotism.

  • Bones

    I don’t think I’ve seen an Aussie flag in a church.

    It defeats the whole purpose of the priesthood of all believers and the Kingdom of god.

  • Bones

    And I thought the red hat was a giveaway.

    As I suspected a closet trump supporter.

    Like who would wear that to a firefight?

  • Bones

    You want nothing less then pics of him pissing on a dead taliban.

    I bet you’re a draft dodger like your hero.

  • Roy Moore scares me. There are plenty of dominionists in government who want to establish a theocracy, but most struggle to subvert the laws or overturn them in that quest. Moore will simply ignore them and urge others to do the same. When we become a nation which does not respect its own laws, recourse becomes limited to rebellion.

  • It has been made perfectly clear by knee-takers from Kaepernick on down
    that they are refusing to honor the Flag and National Anthem because
    they, combined, represent White Supremacy.

    http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

  • Matthew

    Neither have I seen a German flag in a church over here.

  • gimpi1

    How would you know of people can’t be convinced if you are too rude and self-obsessed to try? There’s no excuse for rudeness.

    None of what you’ve said is objective fact. Some of it is your opinion. Fine, I and many others disagree. That’s what makes horses race. Some if it it dogmatic statements that can’t be proven. How in the heck can you claim to know how history will judge anything? The majority of any group has often been wrong.

    Dr Corey is a vet. He has as much right to his opinion as you do. Why can’t you engage respectfully? Again, there is no excuse for your rudeness.

  • gimpi1

    Only cowards and bullies want to be feared. Cowardice and bullying is the cause of much of the slaughter (none of which is useful.) I’m neither a coward or a bully, and I have no wish to see my nation devolve into either. There’s nothing anathema about that, except to cowards and bullies.

  • Les Mayer

    It’s strangely entertaining and slightly troubling to see how many negative comments there are about this piece from people who seem to have not read it. It’s either that, or they are unable to comprehend, refine, condense, and articulate clearly what they are reading. Have we, as a nation, become so driven by emotion, pride, and the need to be right that there’s no time left for empathy, reason, and objectivity? Have we become so afraid of opposing views that the only thing that really matters is mindlessly crushing them? Are we no longer capable of communicating in charity and truth? Has our political polarization become complete and irreversible? Lots of rhetoricals, but I’m just thinking out loud after having read some more of the posts. I like to believe there is far more common ground than we realize, we just need to take a deep breath and calm down enough to see it. Colossians 3:12-14
    “Men think that it is impossible for a human being to love his enemies, for enemies are hardly able to endure the sight of one another. Well, then, shut your eyes and your enemy looks just like your neighbor.” ~Søren Kierkegaard

  • gimpi1

    Nonsense. The racial division has been a part of this country since its inception. There’s nothing “current” about it, it runs through us like a metastasizing cancer. Don’t blame Mr. Obama because you were too self-obsessed to notice it.

    You don’t appear to put much credence in the assessment of our intelligence services, including military intelligence since they’ve stated that Russia did, indeed interfere. I agree, that the investigation is still ongoing about the Trump campaign’s involvement. That’s why we investigate, to learn the truth. Time will tell. However, anyone who calls Ms. Clinton a “massive criminal” obviously has lost all objectivity, so I assume whatever the facts conclude, you won’t let them affect you in the slightest.

  • gimpi1

    That would be because you are rude to almost everyone. I tried, several times, to engage you with honest difference and conversation. I got called anathema and told I was “what’s wrong with this nation.” No one wants to be insulted. You seem to take pride in being as nasty as possible to anyone you brand “liberal.”

    When you treat people rudely, you get nastiness back. I’m sorry but you’ve given no one any reason to treat you as anything but an annoyance. What you do to others, you encourage them to do to you.

  • gimpi1

    Likely bot.

  • gimpi1

    Did you read the poll? It seemed objective and had high marks for Mr. Regan, mostly regarded as conservative.

    Mr. Obama wasn’t simply “hated.” The Republican party made a political decision to block his every action, in an attempt to stymie any attempt to address the nation’s problems. They did it for cynical reason of gaining power for their party.

    Job creation was good. Much of the growth in the deficit was unavoidable due the massive recession Mr. Obama came into office during. Some of it was because Mr. Bush’s administration kept the Iraq war off the books for political reasons, and when those costs were uncloaked, they swelled the deficit. GNP growth was good. National security was good. Ms. Clinton is not, by any definition, a criminal. That’s nonsense.

  • gimpi1

    I’ve found one. I made the mistake of engaging with him in good faith. I won’t make it again. From now on, I’m simply going to try not to engage.

  • gimpi1

    It won’t load for me. Perhaps Bones has the same malware issue:-)

  • gimpi1

    Charming…

  • gimpi1

    No, he’s not. The whole idea of the president being commander in chief is to assure that the military remains under civilian control.

  • gimpi1

    That’s my fear as well, Sam. Mr. Moore appears to have no respect for the law or for anyone else. He simply will attempt to steamroller over anyone and everything that doesn’t fit with his goals, and his goals are awful, in my view. How do you check someone who acknowledges no law except his own will?

  • gimpi1

    Are you honestly trying to claim Dr. Corey was not in the military? A quick web-search would put that nonsense to rest. He served. For a great deal of his life. Attempting to throw mud on that is unworthy.

  • gimpi1

    Well said and well done, Herb. Lynn’s mud-slinging is reprehensible.

  • gimpi1

    It’s about your attempting to throw mud on Dr. Corey’s service. Your actions are despicable.

  • If people could be convinced then the Liberals would disown the Left. Alan Dershowitz can’t even get Berkely to let him speak – a famous liberal because he is Jewish and supports Israel. This is a symptom of the problem with the Left in this country. Rudeness is a hallmark of the Left.

    Ben has no objective position on this issue. He is part of the problem teaching the things he does. Don’t you understand he is selling his book? That makes his opinion irrelevant. Sorry.

    If you are referring to how history will judge Obama and are concerned that it will judge him on his merits not his skin color you have a right to be worried. He does not even meet the Dr. King character test. It was all a political farce and still is to this day.

    Let’s stop with the opinions for a second. If you will list for me Obama’s five greatest accomplishments in eight years I will come back to you when Trump surpasses those and list them for you. So what are they please?

  • Your comment on the intelligence agencies is incorrect. “…the New York Times and the Associated Press recently corrected stories to clarify that four agencies, rather than 17, were directly involved in the January intelligence assessment about Russia’s interference in the election.”

    Those four include Clapper (a liar on the record who told Congress that the NSA was not spying on citizens) and Rice who has no credibility at all and Comey who is Hillary’s hero.

    How do you not see that the Clinton’s have used their foundation to illegally create great wealth for themselves while telling us it is for charity? This is not even in question.; just whether she will be indicted for it.

  • Tuco

    Neo-Nazis, BLM, Antifa, KKK — all objectionable to some, but all covered by that freedom of speech and assembly thing. That said, even a single individual at street-side has an equally covered right to pepper them with boos and hisses. Raising objections, throwing disparagements and even calling for the boycott of what that objectionable group or person is “selling” is likewise equally American. Stop trying to insinuate the USA is a kingdom where a group with a largely objectionable viewpoint could have a serious legal problem if they march the streets. It’s the freedom to march your cause, or metaphorically take a knee for it, as well as to rail against that cause that the US Flag and National Anthem represents and honors. Insult those ideals and yeah, you’ll hear from me.

  • Obscurely

    Neither does what Jesus taught ;)

  • Obscurely

    Good to know, thanks

  • Obscurely

    I’ve seen that claim in other places — do you have a good link to a fuller argument?

  • Bones

    As I thought – no problems with neo-nazis marching the street but a couple of black guys bend the knee and the shit hits the fan.

    Who’s the one using military servicemen and women (black ones too) for their cause again?

    Who is the one calling for the sacking of people they don’t agree with.

    Could you imagine the rioting if Obama did that?

    And should I be worried about hearing from you again.

    For expressing my opinion.

    I remember when those black guys lost their medals for protesting at the Olympic Games in Mexico in 1968.

    Nothing’s changed.

  • Bones

    Probably not since 1945.

  • Bones

    You would hate Dr King…..

    Who is this Left again?

  • Bones

    Yeah nah……

    Twitter’s just banned over 200 fake Russia propaganda accounts.

    You’ve been reading them.

  • Tuco

    Methinks the disagreement here is in defining the term ‘problem.” And that shit hitting the fan is simply a matter of equally protected public opinion, NOT a legal challenge. Or are you in favor of a protected class in our society? One that can say or do as they please and woe be to anyone who might express public displeasure at it. THAT strikes me as being racist. What better definition of a White supremacist could there be than to treat a given group, race, ethnicity, etc. as though they are below White peerage and must be protected against the rough-and-tumble of a free society — like children?

  • Bones

    You could apply each of those points to Dr King.

  • Bones

    I don’t consider Obama a Leftist as such. That’s what Bob doesn’t get. Leftists criticised Obama a lot including his decision to bail out Wall Street, the use of drones and fermenting unrest in the Middle East to bring about regime change even his policy on immigration, the lack of growth in wages especially among the poor, big armament agreements with Israel and providing support for the proxy Saudi war in Yemen..

    If anything he was an economic centrist. In fact some of Nixon’s policies would be more to the Left than Obama’s.

    He was a social progressive by the end of his second term….

    He looks good because the Right have gone further and further to the Right so that anyone in the middle is considered a leftist.

  • otrotierra

    Others are probably more qualified to list resources, but one does come to mind. Baptist seminarian Fred Clark published a famous Patheos blog commentary on, significantly, Nov. 9th 2016 titled “White Evangelicalism is White Nationalism.”

    Clark argues that 81% of White Evangelicals who have cemented themselves to Trump do not signal a failure of U.S. Evangelicalism, but rather embody the maturation of what U.S. Evangelicalism was always built to be: Nationalist White Heteronormative Patriarchal Hegemonic Supremacy. I’m paraphrasing here, but he offers a convincing argument.

    If one agrees with Clark, then we are moved to imagine what U.S. Christendom will become once White Nationalist Hegemony is put to rest. I appreciate Dr. Corey’s writing for several reasons, and I think he’s providing a glimpse of what such a world might look like. Would be interested in hearing more about your experiences.

  • Obscurely

    Actually, swastika flags were also present in some German Lutheran churches — but never in the “confessing churches” led by Niemöller, Bonhoeffer and others …

  • Ron McPherson

    great observation

  • Matthew

    Makes sense. I just asked my German wife if German flags were present in German churches during the war and she said she didn´t know. More research I guess is in order …

  • michael corbin

    As a veteran I honor your service, as a Vietnam vet myself I don’t agree with you. we were sent to fight a war (because of a lie by a Dem. president)that none of us wanted. Where 58,000 died and at that time it wasn’t an all volunteer service. We had thousands of draftees that were totally against the war, but i never seen or heard of a one of them that took a knee when the national anthem played.
    I’m sorry you lost limbs serving your country, but remember you volunteered, you weren’t forced. And I saw a vet missing 4 limbs competing in marathons and still “stand” for the anthem, You have your rights and opinions, but I know you don’t speak for most vets.Our main concern was getting back to the “world”. I really believe you’ll change your mind as you get older. I know i was bitter for years after Nam

  • Bones

    Yeah, that’s what I meant.

  • Bones
  • No I did not read that poll. It is way too early for this judgment. Let’s see what is said in 10 years when the partisans are gone.
    Obama lost control of Congress by the way he pushed through Obamacare and the lies he told to pass it. That had nothing to do with Republicans. The people took the congress away from him.
    Job creation was not good. GDP growth was dismal. Obama spent $9 trillion! More than all the President’s before him and for what? What did that money buy? Votes!
    The Clinton Global Initiative is a brilliant criminal scheme but criminal nonetheless. She sold her office for money and disguised it with donations to the Fund and her husband. This part is not over for her.
    What are Obama’s five greatest accomplishments please?

  • Obscurely

    Thank you! for the benefit of others, here a link to that post …
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2016/11/09/white-evangelicalism-is-white-nationalism/

    As for my own experience, I converted to Christianity (from agnosticism) in my mid-thirties over twenty years ago now … I then spent seven years in a lily-white evangelical church, and the idea I was therefore also a de facto white nationalist of course never occurred to me — I’m still not convinced of the claim, but you’ve inspired me to study the issue … to make a long tortured story short, I eventually migrated to a (mostly white) progressive denomination in which I’ve been serving as an ordained minister for the last seven years …

    I’d like to think I might have felt the same way about the flag/anthem issue when I was a white evangelical — since Jesus’ bias for the oppressed is on such frequent display in the gospels — but I’m not so sure about that … it’s very hard for fish to see the water they’re swimming in, and that certainly also applies to “progressive” Christians like me (an unfortunate term, because it falsely suggests other Christians are perhaps RE-gressive?)

  • Ron McPherson

    “The reason Hillary was not elected was because people did not want more of wonder boy.”

    Other than you just making this claim, there’s really nothing valid with your assertion. It’s just way too simplistic in light of so many variables that come into play during nation-wide elections. For instance, Obama’s approval rating was 59% when he left office, around 57% when Trump was elected. In fact, Obama’s approval rating actually had been consistently trending upwards over his last two years in office. You don’t have to take my word for it. The numbers are there for anyone to see. Meanwhile, Trump’s approval rating is 37%.

  • Ron McPherson

    “…I will come back to you when Trump surpasses those and list them for you”.

    I’m thinking we’ll all die of old age before that happens

  • Ron McPherson

    “Being feared is necessary to prevent the useless slaughter occurring around the world.”

    Huh? America could be the most feared nation in the world and that wouldn’t stop slaughter around the globe. Besides, if we’re going to be a “Christian” nation, shouldn’t we desire to be loved rather than feared?

  • Nick

    I don’t like stolen valor either. This picture clearly doesn’t fit that bill.

  • Nick

    Why are you here? This is a place for Christian discourse. If you are a Christian comport yourself like one.

  • Nick

    Not wanting to be feared is not anathema to our country. It is a fairly new idea in our history and people have always pushed back against the idea.

  • Nick

    The country is split pretty close to 50/50 on the issue. Therefore, most of the country is not against the protest.

    You continue to throw out insults. Insults are the lowest form of argumentation. Attack arguments not people.

  • Nick

    He is a draft dodger. It is fact not whining. I called it out with Bill Clinton, why would it be inappropriate to call it out now?

  • Ron, we have been here before. Approval ratings are like polls – subject to the questions asked.
    If he was so popular then Hillary should have done better but she did not.
    Trump elected at 37% approval should tell you something.

  • “Surpasses those” What are those five greatest accomplishments Ron. Gimpi1 can’t list any. Can you?

  • America according to the Left and the Liberals (that’s you) is not a Christian nation.
    Show me what Jesus had to say about the conduct of nations regarding wars?

  • People? You mean Liberals and the Left?

  • You just don’t get it do you? The country is not split over the issue. Most people don’t have the foggiest idea why football players are kneeling during the national anthem but they do not like it.

  • Because it has nothing to do with the issue does it? Just trying to deflect away from the disrespect to our country.

  • Herm

    Michael, I am a Vietnam vet. I have a few questions of you:

    * Did you know that the Vietnam war (the lie) began in 1955 when Dwight D. Eisenhower, a Republican, was President and ended in 1975 when Gerald Ford, a Republican, was President?

    * Did you know that the US national anthem was adopted for the first time in 1931, 156 years after the beginning of the Revolutionary war.

    * How do you, if you do, show respect to your almighty God? … do you salute? … do put your hand across your heart? … do you kneel? … do you lay prostrate? … do you sit in deep reflection? … do you bow your head? … do you look your God straight in the eye? … do you take a knee? … do you put your hands together, in your lap or hanging beside you?

    * Who told you the only way to show respect was to stand?

    * Did you salute ranking officers out of respect or because you were dictated to do so with the threat of penalty?

    * What is the chain of command out on the football field?

    * Did you know that the first time the national anthem was sang, at a sporting event was in 1935, during the seventh inning stretch, because our nation was at war and Blacks could not play in those games for another 12 years, but they could fight in our war? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/09/24/how-the-national-anthem-and-subverting-it-became-a-pregame-tradition-in-america/?utm_term=.250aa85ec9b3

    * What is disrespectful to all who have served, and are serving, when a private citizen silently takes a knee, sits, kneels, lays prostrate, or remains in the locker room when the national anthem is sung? Why?

    I fought for the right of all Kent State students to protest without getting shot! I’m not going to let them down, or any of those who died for the freedom to peacefully protest even a presumed national injustice. When I see an unexpected reaction, any where and anytime, I am going to look to understand why someone cares so much as to dare to be different than what others are telling them is the appropriate way to show respect, or they will be accused of treason!!!

    I know you are still bitter, a lot of our vets are, because we were lied to. I am older, even possibly older than you, and I agree wholeheartedly with younger Ben’s article. This nation has no right to use my service to deny another her or his privilege to take a knee, or raise a clenched fist, in respectful, quiet, non-violent protest; especially at a game of national entertainment where no one is expected to die in defense of their nation.

    Other than that, I agree with your assessment that we were lied to, by both parties, equally as bad as we were lied to regarding our invasion of Iraq. We are being lied to today by governing and policing officials, sworn to serve us as a united nation, that we may be coerced to serve them and theirs.

    We can best respect our vets by not lying to them and serving them, as a nation governed of the people, for the people, and by the people, to at least the level they have served us. As a nation, we are not meeting their minimal needs. I personally love my fallen who fell in my place, which makes me their life long surrogate. I grieve every moment for each of them. I am shaking now. We don’t honor them, any of them, by robotically gesturing to a flag or a song as commanded. I honor them by protecting and supporting the values I know they fought for, especially when those values were so personal as to be no more than the life of the one on their right and the one on their left. I can relate because I was on the right and on the left. I can relate because I would have followed the ranking voice to give my life that the most of us could survive, as did too many do so for my survival, for our survival.

    I really believe you’ll change your mind as you risk telling your story to get a response. Continue to share and release, please!

    I love you and I am happy that you survived this long to share your heart with us, thank you!

  • Herm

    …which binds them all together in perfect unity” as we must be with the Lord our God to inherit eternal life; with all our hearts, with all our souls, with all our strengths, with all our minds, and like that, love our good neighbor no more and no less than we do our selves.

  • Nick

    No. I meant people.

  • Nick
  • Nick

    As an American I disagree with the protest, but celebrate their rights. I am not deflecting. As many have made clear some veterans find the protest to be a celebration of a citizen’s right to protest.

    It is pertinent to the issue, because draft dodging is actually disrespectful.

  • Les Mayer

    Amen my brother, amen.

  • Ron McPherson

    I’m not advocating one way or another regarding Obama’s legacy. I’m just stating facts. Try removing your head from Trump’s rear long enough to wipe your eyes so you can see how you’re advocating for a toxic POTUS

  • Ron McPherson

    Hillary did not run on Obama’s name or legacy

  • Not hard to find some poll to disagree with your conclusion Nick. But this isn’t over yet. The players are putting their own future at risk now. When the NFL realizes that they are being played by the Left things will change. But for now:

    New Survey: 64 Percent Of Americans Say NFL Players Should Stand For Anthem
    The Dailey Caller

    Nearly two-thirds of Americans say NFL players should stand and be respectful during the playing of the national anthem, according to a survey released on Monday.

    A survey by Remington Research Group found that 64 percent of voters agree with President Trump and want players to stand for the anthem. The survey also found that 80 percent of voters want less politics in sports, while 51 percent say they are watching less football than in previous years.

    Among those watching less football, 69 percent pointed to “Players using the NFL as a stage for their political views” as the primary reason why.

    The survey appears to contradict the popular media narrative that public opinion was on the side of the players kneeling during the anthem. ESPN’s day-long coverage of Trump and the NFL on Monday was almost exclusively negative.

    The poll results caused ESPN contributor Will Cain to suggest on Tuesday whether ESPN’s journalists are living in a “media bubble” that leaves them out of touch with public opinion.

  • Ron McPherson

    So you think the Prince of Peace is all about America scaring other people across the globe?

  • You most certainly are. This President was not elected to coddle the Left. He was elected to create jobs, grow the economy and keep us safe.

  • That is not correct either. I personally saw her many times invoking his name, his policies and his legacy as a strategy to put her over the top. She campaigned with him and the first lady. Even though Obama had to hold his nose he supported her campaign at every opportunity.

  • No. I am thinking Jesus had little to say about Governments; much to say about individuals.
    If people would obey His commandments then necessarily the Government would follow; but they don’t and they won’t.

  • Ron McPherson

    Lol. I referenced how historians are viewing him. You don’t like it because it doesn’t align with your skewed partisanship. You see things in binary terms, left and right, liberal and conservative.

  • No. Your sources (if you state them) will be current Liberal partisans. But I believe in five years we will learn what historians really think.

  • Ron McPherson

    Are you not comprehending? There are several republicans ranked ahead of him lol. Reagan is ranked 9th. It’s not partisan. Why would liberals do that? You’re not being logical.

  • Your source is probably from the article below:

    Former President Barack Obama appears in C-Span’s Historians Survey of Presidential Leadership for the first time, and he has placed just outside of the top 10 in the overall ranking. On Friday, the television network released the results of its survey of 91 historians, its third following versions in 2000 and 2009.

    I am sure he will not remain in that heady atmosphere for long as his legacy tarnishes further; Without Obamacare and an Iran deal and a Global Warming agreement he will slide downward.

  • Ron McPherson

    Lol

  • kaydenpat

    Amen!!! Very well said. Peaceful protests don’t create “sons of b*tches”. They create heroes.

  • Bones

    That’s your right wing partisan thinking……you left out the stimulus for inheriting a train wreck of an economy which created jobs and infrastructure, legalising gay marriage and taking out Bin Laden……

    Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments

    http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/

  • Bones

    It seems we have protected groups in society – right wing nationalists and conservatives.

    But not da black man. That’s actually the point of the protest.

    Your president called for the sacking of black people (sons of bitches) for exercising their freedom of speech and right to protest while umming and aghing over whether to condemn racists (good people).

    Of course if he had’ve kept his big mouth shut instead of pandering to his base such as racists in alabama this wouldn’t be an issue.

  • Bones

    Der…..Clinton’s loss had nothing to do with Obama.

    Hey why isn’t she in jail yet?????

    Another Trump lie.

  • Bones

    You don’t and you won’t.

    I’m glad people aren’t scared of my country….

  • Bones

    Well we can see how much respect people have for their servicemen and their country when they question a serviceman’s record because they disagree with them, while supporting a draft dodger.

  • Bones

    No Kayden, white Nazis screaming about Jews are ‘ good people’.

    Black people silently protesting systemic injustice are ‘sons of bitches’..

  • Bones

    Btw there’s outrage over here about an Aussie woman who was shot and killed by the US police after phoning that she heard a noise…..

    That’s only one innocent person….

    But people are more like….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7f4cc8fd0edbae2434b07d301b0b958fbc738fc0576b4b7ff769dd3daa20467a.jpg

  • Tuco

    Bass-ackwards, as usual. Is there a Congressional WHITE Caucus in government? Is there even a rough equivalent of a violent mob of thugs like BLM among the White community? This whole “persecuted Blacks” mantra is total bullshit. 75% of the players in the NFL are Black, and they’re all filthy rich compared to the White masses. All this grievance crap is retro to 1950-60s America, prior to the Civil Rights Movement. And for the record (as if facts matter to libtards), POTUS Trump did NOT call for the sacking of anyone. What he said was that he’d be pleased to hear of that being the reaction, and action, of a NFL team owner. Hardly a Presidential sanction, wot? Ah, but words and facts are wasted on the besotted mind of the libtard, so I’m done with you. Not sensible enough to constitute good foil. OUT

  • Dave O’Reilly

    Thank you for your service. My best friend was in Afghanistan and my girlfriend and both her parents were in the military and they are tired of people speaking for them as well. My girl posted a piece on her FB page about that and she is glad to see other veterans speaking out as well. It doesn’t matter what side of the fence you are on about the protest, it is time that people stop exploiting our veterans and using them as political props, taking ownership of them, using them to justify bullshit, and speaking for them. As my girl said, if she served in the military than she is quite capable of speaking for herself.

  • michael corbin

    Herm, Your line of questioning is insulting, are you trying to lecture me? First, did you know the “lie” began in 1950 when Truman(a Dem.) set up the U.S. military advisory group that saw to the supervision and issuance of military assistance to France. Under Eisenhower by 1960 there were between 750-1500. By 1963( under Kennedy)there were 15,000 but at least it was his intention to bring them all back. in 64 after the Gulf of Tonkin lie Johnson sent the first combat troops by the time Nixon took over there was half a million troops in Vietnam.
    How i show respect to the all mighty is really none of your business unless i show up at your church and call you all idiots are disrespect your choice. I saluted officers because out of respect for the rank like every soldier is instructed to.
    And it makes no difference when the national anthem became the national anthem. it is that’s what counts, that’s what you show respect for, what it stands for. And when you go on the field with the intent and brag about not showing respect for it that makes it bad.
    And don’t try and lay no guilt trip on me about Kent State I don’t know of any one that approved of what happened. And what do you mean “Risk telling my story”? What story did i tell, I made a comment.
    And you talk to me like I’m a child, I’m 68 spent 17 months and 22 days in Nam, lost three personal friends and a cousin. Let me guess you protest Trump? I suppose you would have rather had Hillary who abandoned Americans in Benghazi. And BTW as I said the vast majority of vets don’t like this crap one bit. And the DAV,VFW and American Legion agree.
    But out of respect for another vet I’ll leave it there.

  • Bones

    It’s weird that Vietnam vets would support the draft dodger……

  • Bones

    And now we see through your initial bs to the heart of your issue.

    It’s all about da black man.

    How dare da black man protest. He should be happy with what da white man has given him.

    Kaepernick has paid for his protest which has cost him contracts. Even Trump gloats about how his tweets have made him unemployable.

    As Eric Reid says

    “In early 2016, I began paying attention to reports about the incredible number of unarmed black people being killed by the police. The posts on social media deeply disturbed me, but one in particular brought me to tears: the killing of Alton Sterling in my hometown Baton Rouge, La. This could have happened to any of my family members who still live in the area. I felt furious, hurt and hopeless. I wanted to do something, but didn’t know what or how to do it. All I knew for sure is that I wanted it to be as respectful as possible.

    It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

    I can’t find words that appropriately express how heartbroken I am to see the constant smears against Colin, a person who helped start the movement with only the very best of intentions. We are talking about a man who helped to orchestrate a commercial planeful of food and supplies for famine-stricken Somalia. A man who has invested his time and money into needy communities here at home. A man I am proud to call my brother, who should be celebrated for his courage to seek change on important issues. Instead, to this day, he is unemployed and portrayed as a radical un-American who wants to divide our country.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?mcubz=0

    The facts which don’t matter to rightards like yourself are that your draft dodging hero used a non-issue to garner support among white racists in Alabama.

    People like yourself.

    And it worked.

  • Gwen Denise

    Herm, I echo Greg’s sentiment. I do thank you and honor your service to our country. It is not lost on me the sacrifices that our brave heroes of the military have made and make on a daily basis to protect and defend our nation, and I thank each and every one of you, and I include my grandfather, a WW1 Army vet.

  • Herm

    Benghazi was a CIA mission. The State Department had no call!!! but, then I’m lecturing again.

    I am sorry for your losses, it is temping to call yours and raise with mine but one is enough to owe the truth to. It is too bad that you don’t know what real freedom to speak is and why some of us vets and citizens will continue to fight for it until all women, children and men are considered and treated equal as created.

    Are you that jaded and bitter that you don’t understand that I was saying that all worship their almighty God differently in our nation? We fought for that. How great is our nation relative to someone’s God? I fought for a nation that I mistakenly thought stood for supporting people to be different as long as they supported others to be different as themselves. In everything do to others as you would have others do to you. You don’t want me, or anyone else, to tell you how to worship as long as you worship respectful of me. Why are you insisting that someone, who is quietly not disrupting you to stand for your flag and anthem, show their respect exactly the same way as you? I’ll be damned but that sure sounds like a police state. Next you’ll be insisting we stand for the cross or lose our job!

    You really don’t see what’s happening and you don’t see that you’ve been lied to. The worst is that you clearly are supporting Russia’s candidate; lock, stock and barrel!

    I am sad for you and your buds being led right down the rosy path out of the DAV, VFW, and American Legion. At least you won’t be alone. Neither were any of the Nazi troops believing while worshiping their flag and anthem. I am pissed and can’t leave it there, people are hurting because you have bought, and continue to buy, so many lies…….

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    From one veteran to another I do want to thank you for serving as well.
    However…
    What I get is that leftists hate most of America, think all white people are racists, think all white people are responsible for slavery that ended 5 generations ago (your white guilt shows in your other posts), and that black people are too stupid to help themselves.
    I presented FACTS directly from the FBI and DoJ web sites. Do you get it?

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    Police aren’t shooting innocent blacks…
    at least no more than they are shooting innocent whites.

  • michael corbin

    You know bud, I’m tired of you inferring that I’m stupid! State Dept. didn’t have nothing to do with Benghazi? Really, and you’re calling me ill informed. Hillary’s finger prints are all over it. Watch what comes out the guys that were there are talking to congress now and they have evidence already that will prove it. Same with the Russia collusion crap, either you now it already are you’re more than ill informed. And at no time did i “insist” that any one stand and for “my flag and anthem” we insist you don’t come on the field just to insult it. And i guess by that it’s not your flag and anthem, sounds to me like you’re the Russians candidate. And Trump wasn’t my first choice but Hillary was my last choice.

  • michael corbin

    Well Bones its like this, I was for Cruz. But i would’ve voted for the first bum i saw on the street before I’d vote for that lying, murdering Killary. Which brings me to the point of Mr. Killary. I bet you voted for that draft dodging molester, didn’t you?

  • Bones

    You seem fine with cops shooting innocent people.

  • Bones

    Thankfully, I’m not American.

    But your support for the draft dodger is noted and shows how much respect you have for servicemen and women.

    Just like Trump’s disdain for McCain while he was at home playing sport with his rich daddy.

  • Herm

    Dear Patsy, thank you for all the proof we need. I rest my case.
    https://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/benghazi%20report.pdf

  • Bones

    You don’t give a rats arse about black violence nor the causes of it. It’s a statistic you use to obscure the issue of police violence.

    Although the issue really is freedom of speech which the Right has held up as pedestal especially with regards to anti-gay Christians. How quick you are to deny the freedom of speech for any cause you don’t like.

    The Left (who the f*** is that? Bernie Sanders?) no more hates America than King did.

    And if you don’t want to be identified as a racist – stop supporting them.

  • Herm

    Oh, I get it, you are a Russian bot.

    Let’s go over your numbers. What were those web sites?

    Or is that none of my business, either?

  • Brenda

    1935 wasn’t the first time the anthem was played at a sporting event. It began before it was officially our anthem due to WWI and despite the posts all over the Internet, it was just after WWII that the NFL commissioner ordered that the anthem be played at all football games. I trust the History Channel to know historical fact more than a bitter news agency. http://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

  • Kathryn Sampson

    Thank you for eloquently stating what I have thought, and thank you for your service, and sacrifice.

  • Bones

    Btw what’s the third verse of the Star Spangled Banner about?

    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

  • Les Mayer
  • Les Mayer
  • kaydenpat

    Only learned about that awful third verse recently. We need a new anthem.

  • kaydenpat

    Exactly. So says the Bigot-in-Chief.

  • Ron McPherson

    I literally did not know this

  • They Clinton criminal machine found a brilliant way to steal money for their ambition to be wealthy like their major donors by using her office as Secretary of State to sell her influence in return for donations to her Fund and for large speaking fees to Bill.
    Elise Jordan is an NBC News/MSNBC political analyst. She has worked for the Department of State and the National Security Council. She wrote,

    “As I watch Hillary Clinton wish away the fallout of the Clinton Foundation’s unseemly ties with the State Department during her tenure as Secretary of State, I can’t help but think that her self-inflicted wound just bleeds and bleeds and bleeds. Every day that she fails to seriously address the rotten consequences of her poor judgment, Clinton further erodes the already lacking public trust in her. By avoiding a sincere display of contrition, she risks her candidacy and the foundation her family built.”

    How prophetic that opinion turned out to be…

  • Then why doesn’t the American public rise up and kill itself so that the “stain” on our country can be erased?

  • Les Mayer

    It made me sad when I first read about Justine, it still makes me sad thinking about it.
    When a person created in the image of God takes the life of another person created in that same image, regardless of the reason, He weeps. All justifying, or rationalizing based on percentages, or proportions of populations, etc., etc., is at best, tedious. All life is sacred and He thought the redemption of His creation was absolutely worth dying for, for myself, I can’t understand seeing it any other way

  • Les Mayer

    Interesting to find this in the news this morning. Bravo Lt. Gen. Silveria
    https://youtu.be/mU0RfhvYN8s

  • Ron McPherson

    Jesus already died showing us how to love our neighbor. How about every U.S. citizen claiming Christ as Savior and Lord just love our neighbor as he commanded. That would go a long way to correcting a lot of what is wrong in this country.

  • Matthew

    Would you consider Bernie Sanders a true leftist?

  • michael corbin

    Dear Dem-Wit watch your idols fall. They are traitors and so are you for supporting them. Me and my flag and anthem wish people like you would leave, join Miley, and Cher. Go to Big Mouth Bones country.

  • michael corbin

    Then you have nothing to say. Is your country so perfect that you can find no fault with it. What gives you a voice in our politics. And as far as McCain and Vietnam go, You don’t know crap so stick it where the sun don’t shine.

  • Herm

    LOL and I guess you want everything done for you too?!?!

    You, nor I, earned anything that we have been graced (without merit) by the resources of our land. My tent girl had a 16 year education comparable to a BA degree, a floating eye, no medical or life insurance, lived with her Roman Catholic parents (with whom I shared meals with in a little house with clean dirt floors and a corner respectfully with every spiritual symbol present), was smarter and more world wise than I, taught me how to worship in a Buddhist temple, and served all my domestic needs for $5.00 a week. I could be incorrectly assuming this, but I’d bet you spent your down time at the club, preparing for the rest of your life in the DAV,VFW and American Legion. You didn’t see first hand what the locals had that you did not stateside and vice versus. You don’t realize that the majority of the rest of the world works harder to have far less than you have been given. No one owes me a thing!!!

    Your idol thinks that when someone is down and out it is always their fault and they are on the dole. Your idol believes that good hard work, a few bankruptcies, ripping off contractors, using other’s funds to finance his life and me and mine before all others earned him all he’s got.

    I got news for you, bud, not one of our fallen comrades, of which I have many more I grieve today than you could list, didn’t earn what they got. You have no clue that the Bannon/Trump goal is to take us back to the good ole’ days of the 1930’s. You know, when America was great with the depression, sweat shops, no Black vote, the dust bowl (no national anthem sang at that one) and no growing minority vote threatening to ruin this manly white Christian nation. You come back when you really understand where your treasure is stored. You come back when you begin to understand who your master is. You come back when you understand that national and familial traditions are not in the Spirit of truth according to this scripture…

    Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:25-27 (NIV2011)

    … and you will be welcomed.

    Then, and only then, can you serve for the survival of your entire species humankind bound in the unity of love. Until then you are the enemy I love who I can only serve for you by asking my Father to forgive you for what you do not know you do.

  • michael corbin

    You really take the cake Bud.Spout off about humanity. But you had a girl that served all your domestic needs for 5$ a week, what does that mean she cleaned your house cooked for you, and satisfied your sexual needs for 5$ a week. In other words you had a slave, right. As far as the VFW,DAV and American Legion where concerned, I’ve never joined any of them, the only veterans group i was in was VVAW, if you even know what that means.And i was watching Ken Burns Vietnam last week and the guys that threw their medals in the reflection pool said it was the dumbest thing they ever did. Because they were proud of their medals, service and flag. We all know Vietnam was a bunch of crap, nut we did the bet we could. And spare me the I’ve seen a lot worse than you BS. You have no idea what i saw or went through, as i do you, that’s why i never questioned your service.
    You are a gullible person(which is the best i can assume) at least.And spouting racial crap is you tools weapon, try to make us feel bad. I got news for you buddy there you also no nothing about me. And my idol, i never even liked Trump until it became a choice between Hillary and him, and now i’m all for him considering how nuts the liberals in this country have gone.Of course the U.S. has had a bad history, (name one country that hasn’t) but overall me do good for the world. And Dems. care so much about blacks welfare? Bull they use them and they are beginning to realize it.
    And don’t even try and quote any intelligence dept. that says Russia did it. We all know Obama and the Dems have corrupted every one of them and the IRS. Watch the future bud, we’ll see who’s proven right. Although you nuts will never accept it. But you better, because there are an awful lot of Americans that are about ready to rid the country of these traitors.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    Not at all. Police need better training and MUCH harsher punishment when they actually do use excessive force.
    But it seems that many times BLM has protested (and then rioted) when it is not about an innocent person being shot or the use of actual excessive force.
    The ENTIRE Ferguson thing was based 100% on lies.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    Here your points are just full of shit.
    Statistics are facts and facts say that black people get shot at a higher per capita rate because they commit violent crime at a higher per capita rate.

    Freedom of speech is not rioting. It is not assaulting someone for wearing a MAGA hat. It is not attacking people because they want to hear a person speak that you do not agree with. It is not attacking the person that is saying words you do not like. Freedom of speech is not needed for speech everyone agrees with. It is for those issues that people may disagree with. Things like being pro OR anti gay marriage. Things like stopping illegal immigration, Things like deporting 11 million plus illegal aliens.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    I already told you the web sites. Just because your ass is too lazy to look them up yourself does not mean I am going to do it for you.

  • Herm

    … you can, you have the responsibility, but any flag and anthem has no ability to wish anything, they are craven images.

  • Herm

    The entire world knows more crap and truth than you do, by your example. Telling anyone to stick it up their ASS has only the effect of releasing a little pent up immature emotions for an impotent bully.

  • Herm

    No, you did not, and all the FBI and DOJ web documentation says nothing relative to the numbers you posted. I did take the time and effort so that I could understand where you are coming from. Help, my dumb ass, please, and tell me which web sites I am unable to find?

    It must be noted that since 2013 crime by ethnicity has been unavailable. I learned that trying to sync your numbers.

  • Lily Erickson

    I’ve been forced to remind numerous people that those of us in the military took an oath to serve and protect the Constitution- not the flag or the National Anthem. Seeing Kaep and others take a stand for what they believe in gives me a much larger sense of pride than the band striking up the Star Spangled Banner.

  • Lily Erickson

    It is very strange how civilians look at someone in a uniform and immediately assume “that person must think, feel, and believe the exact same things that I do.” Few of them bother to actually talk to us, listen to our experiences, or try to engage with us in any serious way. They literally make us into objects, and we are only useful if we fall in line with what they think. Once vets start to make trouble they just turn their backs on them. That’s why all these people frothing at the mouth about how “kneeling disrespects our troops!” don’t seem to care about veteran homelessness, or the bad care they receive at the VA, or how many veterans have a hard time transitioning from active duty back into the civilian world. And they certainly don’t want to hear about anti-war veterans groups.

  • Bones

    Honestly you are full of shit.

    Statistics aren’t facts.

    They are highly interpretive.

    And once again you manipulate and interpret the data to suit your racism.

    Black crime can be reduced to one cause – poverty.

    But that doesn’t interest you as using the old da blacks are violent because they’really black meme from the1800s.

    And where are these black footballers rioting you stupid moron?

  • Bones

    I have plenty to say.

    From an outsiders perspective the US is run by madmen.

    And yeah I had family in Vietnam while your draft dodging hero was counting his money.

    So suck it.

    How weird that viet vets love the draft dodger.

  • Bones

    Possibly.

  • I think Francis Scott Key suffered from something many Whites in America suffer from, total inability to put themselves in the shoes of people of color. The third verse shows no empathy for those impressed by the British against their will, and for slaves abused by the American system, forced to fight to earn their freedom. At the time, Blacks were viewed as an inferior race, something Scott himself believed, so it is not surprising.

  • Here’s a quote from a friend of mine:

    “While it might seem nice to have to have government enforce my beliefs, that’s only step 1. In step 2, government would insist on changing my beliefs. That’s why the founding fathers gave us the establishment clause.” – T.C.S.

  • Paul Helm

    Seems This disabled vet is confused ! President Trump is standing up for patriotism not asking for firings ! It is refreshing to see a president lift some standards back up instead of breaking them down ! Go TRUMP !!!

  • Herm
  • Bones

    Seems you are confused….not the vets you’re disrespecting.

    “Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say ‘get that son of a bitch off the field?’” Trump said to roaring applause. Trump said if owners fired a player for protesting the anthem, they would become “the most popular person in the country. Because that is a total disrespect of our heritage.” (Kaepernick, after leaving his contract with the 49ers, has not been able to secure a position on another team.)

    These are the standards such as describing neo Nazis as ‘ good people’ and dog whistling to racists in Alabama.

  • Bones

    Well he was a virulent anti-abolitionist……..

  • Bones

    Heads up – if you pay someone for a service, they aren’t a slave…..

    The gullible people are those who swallow the draft dodgers bs hook, line and sinker even when it comes to disrespecting other Vietnam Vets.

    If you were to criticise him, he’d turn on you real fast too like the thin skinned narcissist he is.

  • James the Apostate

    First, ‘taking a knee’ is nothing to do with the flag or the anthem or the troops, it’s to bring awareness to police brutality and racial injustice

    Second, “You can’t demand that everyone stand for the flag if you’ve colluded with the foreign governments who subvert the very democracy that flag represents.”

  • michael corbin

    In other words you come from a long line of big mouth cowards, your family ran instead of fighting for they’re country.
    Now you’re over here running your mouth and denigrating the country you’re hiding in..
    There is a solution, go back coward.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    You are 100% incorrect, but perhaps you just aren’t good at searching the internet.
    The FBI UCR (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/cius-2016) and the FBI LEOKA (https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2015) still break down crime statistics by race of victim and by race of offender.
    52.6% of all murder and non-negligent manslaughter in 2016 were committed by black people. 54.5% of all robberies in 2016 were committed by black people. (2016 UCR)
    More police were killed in 2015 by black people than by whites and hispanics combined. (2015 LEOKA)

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    As you leftist are so fond of pointing out, there are millions more poor white people than black. So whites should be committing much more crime.
    Facts are facts
    52.6% of all murder and non-negligent manslaughter in 2016 were committed by black people. 54.5% of all robberies in 2016 were committed by black people. (2016 UCR)
    More police were killed in 2015 by black people than by whites and hispanics combined. (2015 LEOKA)
    No “manipulation of data” required.

    But that doesn’t interest you because black people are all “victims” right?

    No one said black footballers are rioting, you leftist.

  • Herm

    Chris, thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Most of my life I believed that this…

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)

    … Luke 10:25:37, Matthew 7:12, and 22:37 were all something I would be able to keep, perfectly, only after I died, but surely not while still on this earth. I will testify, in all truth, that in the last 23 years I have found that the only thing hard keeping the law and loving my enemy, self, neighbor and the Lord my God is the increasing depth, sometimes seeming overwhelming, of feeling for another; good neighbor and/or evil enemy.

    This speaks to what changed around 23 years ago for me…

    “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

    John 16:12-13 (NIV2011)

    … He came. Not just for me, the Spirit of truth came to be available to all of humankind over 1,980 years ago, has been in the midst of all of mankind on earth ever since (though most are blind to His presence), and does serve to influence anyone who prays (in any form) to God (by any name). He had been in my life, all my life, as I had allowed Him to influence me. The difference 23 years ago is that, at my lowest point, having seemingly lost all that I valued, I prayed directly, in all humility prostrate before God, to fill me with the Holy Spirit full time, without pause, and that I would never again shut Him out, even when I thought I was sinning.

    I am truly thankful to my Lord and my Father that They have continually nurtured me to progressively feel more deeply for all; my Lord God, my good neighbor, myself, and my enemy as much as I can bear.

    To shake things up a little bit here, I’ve realized, for certain, that Jesus, our Father and all children born of God in the Spirit are not static in Their love. We are all progressing every moment to love all aware and influential life more deeply. We savor together the beauty of all life along with the tools that each creates to share with one another, whether it be the Grand Canyon or a card expressing love from one to another, or a just simple smile. United we savor our empathy, compassion, tolerance, forgiveness and so much more, that I have no words for to express the fullness of love today, for each other in the Spirit (which is God, including our Father who is perfect), for all those we invite into the Spirit fulltime, without pause, forever, and for those we hurt so deeply for who know not what they do that crucifies others.

    Chris, I could easily go on but it would be possibly more than you could bear at this moment. You, by your example, are on the path of loving the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with all your mind (all of the spirit you in the image of God that you can bear this moment) and like that loving your good neighbor as yourself while, also, loving your enemy, as our perfect Father loves our enemy (enough that all His children carry their own cross in love for their enemy).

    I am not a progressive Christian. I am a child of God, born of, with and in the Spirit of God who is always growing (only as much as I can bear) who follows Christ, as my one Instructor, through the Spirit of truth, as my one Teacher, with whom I am in, whelmed, filled, immersed, baptized without pause or end. I have progressed to where there is no other way for me but to deeply love my enemies, who are me as a child of Man, with whom I first have empathy, compassion, tolerance and forgiveness for, as I would have them have for me.

    If you have read anything that I have been blessed to have been able to write, you know that I am still a very little child, a growing infant child of God in spirit and a diminishing adult child of Man in carnal. I get angry and frustrated when I witness opponents transgressing the sum of the law of life, in everything do to others as they would have others do to them, and do treat them as I would have them treat me if I were doing the same … as an angry, frustrated child who knows that they do not know what they are doing that is so destructive to them, theirs and all. Reflectively I seem to be maturing, progressing, a little bit to be more effectively loving toward my enemy, though I remain a very little child in demeanor. I hope, that to become perfectly effective in my love for all, that it doesn’t take me an entire eternity to master. There is so much more I want to focus on and savor throughout my ever-growing awareness and influence, my life, that will reach beyond eternity, as it is with and in my Father and my Lord Brother Jesus.

    Chris, you care, you’re a good neighbor, and I am blessed that you share with us. Love you! Thank you, again!

  • Herm

    Wow, I stand corrected I did find data, on the FBI website, relative to ethnicity.

    You may be a very special person privy to information I am not but both the pages you sent my to came back with “Page not found”.

    I did find a 2015 LEOKA (law enforcement officers killed and assaulted) that would relate to your “/leoka/2015)” site and the ethnicity numbers do not relate to yours if you take the nine year span and it’s a tie if you include Native Americans with the whites in 2015:

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2015/tables/table_41_leos_fk_race_and_sex_of_known_offender_2006-2015.xls

    I, also, found a table for crime in the US for 2016 and the ethnicity numbers do not relate to yours at all:

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21

    Now, these questions are where the rubber meets the road and are not meant to be tricky or misdirecting:

    What business is this of yours, or mine?

    What are your suggestions to improve our nation’s transgressing the sum of the law?

    How do we help to correct the white rape problem?

    What can each of us do to support more unity in the United States of America?

  • Excellent brief analysis that will go over the heads of most of this audience.

  • Very bad brief analysis. Taking a knee during the anthem is the whole point.
    Need to grow up and accept the election. Collusion is a Left generated delusion.

  • Herm

    Just who is “them” that “We” (… and who is “We”?) have no problem with protesting?

  • Herm

    Did a U.S. Veteran Influence Kaepernick’s ‘Take a Knee’ Protest of Police Brutality?
    Green Beret and NFL player Nate Boyer confirmed he convinced the quarterback to “take a knee,” rather than sit, during the national anthem.

    http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

    Perhaps you don’t know what is being protested here. Perhaps, you don’t know that even the perception that we might be a police state, supporting to protect the welfare of police and militarily more than the welfare of any of our innocent citizen’s, is a matter of deserved protest. Perhaps, you don’t know all that we declared independence from governing tyranny with:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    Perhaps, you don’t know that as an imperfect union, intent on becoming a more perfect union, we have constitutionally recognized all men, women, and children have been equally endowed with the very same unalienable Rights.

    Perhaps, you don’t know that no one under the protections of our constitution is allowed to do anything that impugns those Rights without fear of retribution, including bad (destructive) Neo-Nazis, BLM, Antifa, KKK, cops, soldiers, pastors, presidents, congressmen, aliens, parents, and any of any ethnicity, creed, religion, sexual orientation. No one is above the law of in everything do to others as you would have others do to you, especially supporting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    You insult those protected by our constitutional ideals in favor of the symbols of the constitution and yeah, you’ll hear from me.

  • Tuco

    Are we arguing the same point, or are you overlooking the point being that nobody, but NOBODY, is contending that taking a knee nor any other non-violent public insult is not fully covered by the Constitution? There seems to be a tendency, even an insistence, on couching the objections to the knee-taking as a legal matter. That’s a ‘straw man’ on its face.

    Simply put, it’s a matter of an insult to a national tradition, even a formalized and codified national ritual, that is being responded to economically. HIGHLY paid entertainers co-opting the “stage” on which they are paid to perform a specific act to express their own socio-political opinion.

    Those paid ticket-holders and broadcast viewers have rights, too. They can boo the unwelcomed stunt with impunity, and the team owners, NFL officials and corporate sponsors have every right to impose sanctions against any impertinent behaviors — like twerking or spiking the ball in the end zone — that they might feel would be viewed as unpopular enough to hurt gate receipts, or especially might chill corporate sponsorships.

    It’s a business, and for team owners and league officials to appear to condone the ruffling of feathers of financial supporters by insulting cherished traditions and ceremonies is simply bad business. Kaepernick et al have every right to make an ass, or a hero, of themselves on their own time. Keep it legal and it’s nobody else’s business. But on the field, it’s everybody’s business. In the end, the old adage will have its way: Money talks and bullshit walks.

  • Herm

    I am so sorry Tuco, but your literate bluster is intentionally misdirecting from the point of argument, which began with, “From One Who Sacrificed: Stop Using Me in Your Anti-“Take a Knee” Argument” of which you moved it to, “It has been made perfectly clear by knee-takers from Kaepernick on down that they are refusing to honor the Flag and National Anthem because they, combined, represent White Supremacy“, when Mr Kaepernick clearly only took a knee in protest of perceived police brutality. I am sorry because you took the already emotionally contentious possibility of bad cops (none punished equally under the law) being touted and protected from unanimous support by patriotism in uniform and the tradition of “all is good” and celebratory under the national anthem and flag discussion, to fuel the fire with racism and capitalism, of which neither was previously a point of argument.

    Does the flag and the national anthem of the United States of America represent white supremacy, in your mind and heart? If they do not why insinuate white supremacy, at all?

    In addition, why “Kaepernick on down“. Are there none from Mr. Kaepernick on up knee-takers?

  • James the Apostate

    Racism is the **whole** point. Period.

    “So-Called-Ruler-Of-The-US” (SCROTUS/#45) won, but not by any kind of majority. I suspect even a greater majority will be out to vote to bring sanity and Honor back to the Presidential Office, soon.

    Also, delusions are subjective experiences, not generated by others, and not imposed on you from anyone – they’re yours, and only YOU can experience them. Most observing you in a delusional state would have a very different objective experience of you in your subjective thought process and perceptions of reality.

    Ты преданная Трамп Братва? Most alt-Right trolls recently seem to have some connection, but it doesn’t really matter … We understand why there are so many distractions from the REAL issues … Obviously, you’re getting your dysinformation from an alt-source which then feeds it to folks like you, which result in the mass delusions you and your alt-good-ol-boyz are living. You can’t honestly believe that crap, do you?

  • Herm

    James, Bob honestly believes that crap.

  • Grow up please. Presidential elections are won by the electoral college vote since the first and now the 45th president. President Trump trounced Hillary Clinton 304-227.
    If the Left had any evidence of collusion they would publish it; they don’t and they won’t. Also, collusion is not a crime. So dream on about impeachment it’s not going to happen. What is going to happen to the Democrat party is much worse. The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign through the vehicle of “unmasking” and they won’t get a pass on this crime.
    I am so proud of my Cardinals today as “no-one” took a knee. The Left has worn out the racism tag. It has no effect now.

  • Bones

    wtf are you talking about moron? I live in Australia.

    My family is buried in battlefields scattered from Western Europe and Asia.

    They’d turn in their grave at your support for the draft dodging coward who denigrates Vietnam Vets for his political cause.

  • Herm

    I don’t suppose you fought along side the Aussies. I did and none were cowards. Bones lives in Australia.

  • James Quinn

    If you knew who Corey was, you’d know that your comment is the most misplaced comment on the internet.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b8cc3c7acd3b82f691c2e33863e6e8570b86108618835f6a0517dd8330b21140.jpg

  • Bones

    There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

    Here’s some statistics for you

    “According to the 2014 U.S. Census Bureau ACS study (see charts below) 27% of all African American men, women and children live below the poverty level compared to just 11% of all Americans. An even higher percentage (38%) of Black children live in poverty compared to 22% of all children in America. The poverty rate for working-age Black women (26%) which consists of women ages 18 to 64 is higher than that of working-age Black men (21%).

    Poverty rates for Black families vary based on the family type. While 23% of all Black families live below the poverty level only 8% of Black married couple families live in poverty which is considerably lower than the 37% of Black families headed by single women who live below the poverty line. The highest poverty rates (46%) are for Black families with children which are headed by single Black women. This is significant considering more than half (55%) of all Black families with children are headed by single women.”

    That means the vast majority of poor people are black.

    Poverty creates crime. Black neighbourhoods with similar income levels to white neighbourhoods have the same crime rates.

    “Here’s a harsh reality: in the United States, the problem is black on black crime. It’s not Latino on Latino crime. It’s not even black on white or white on black crime. We’ve focused on racial statistics, but the truth that comes from the data provided by the Bureau of Justice Statistics is that the United States is dealing with a poor on poor wave of crime.”

    26 Poverty and Crime Statistics
    https://vittana.org/26-poverty-and-crime-statistics

    And

    lots of statistics here about the relationship between income inequality and societal problems.. Seems if Americans want to leave the American dream they should leave and go to a country like Denmark.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw

    This is what racists like you don’t understand.

    White racists, like you, created the environment to perpetuate communal poverty amongst the black community. Then you blame black people for the crime that infests their impoverished communities.

    What a hideous individual.

    Another rightard who supports their draft dodging president dog whistling to the racists on the Right.

  • James Quinn

    There’s a funny thing called Google. Sometimes, it takes you a thing called twitter. You do a little research and then… well, that’s how we fact check things. You wouldn’t accept an autographed photo of he and the president in his service dress, but what about his military ID? Or does that not “ring true” to your Trumper ears either?

    You know what they say about assuming… pic.twitter.com/jVaiKZtRH9— Benjamin L Corey (@BenjaminLCorey) September 25, 2017

  • michael corbin

    Well you know what numb nuts, let’s get personal. I was in Sydney in 68 for two weeks R&R. When we got there we were told not to wear our uniform because the city was full of liberal war protesters and con men out to rob you.
    Sure enough we were lured into a pool hall and right away the scam started. We seen what they were trying and told them so. As we started to leave they kind of blocked our way out so we let them know to move or start swinging. They backed down even tho there was 6 of them and 4 of us. So I stand on my original statement. But don’t go back to your coward country, you’re there.
    And we don’t give a crap what some loud mouth Aussie has to say about us. You better look after your own country before the Muslims take it over. Or have you already given up?

  • Bones

    Lol….

    You needed more Aussies like at Long Tan…maybe you wouldn’t have ran away. Trump would shit on them too if it served any political purpose.

    No wonder you support the draft dodger.

    Lol….the Muslims are taking over…what a f***wit.

  • Bones

    Hope all you guys and your loved ones weren’t anywhere near the appalling shooting in Las Vegas.

    RIP those who went out to enjoy life only to have it destroyed.

  • apoxbeonyou

    There is. Called ‘block’. :D

  • James the Apostate

    @bobshiloh:disqus, почему вы троллируете прогрессивную дискуссию?

    There you go, spewing FAUX & Friends talking points. You and your fading old [white] buddies can just keep telling yourselves that crap in your cults and clubs. Since you have no ability to process real information for yourselves, you’ll keep letting others fear-bait you, feed you “alt-facts”, and tell you exactly what to think.

    Reality is, unmasking subversive activity by foreign agents and domestic parties is not the crime – the treasonous activities those domestic-terrorists were committing are the real violations. I watch your alt-media channels, and listen to your alt-radio, as they spin alt-facts for you and the under-educated, fear-driven folks like you. As the involvement/activity became clearer and clearer, and as certain “unmasked” parties were caught in their strings of lies, the cover-up pivoted from adamant, whiney denials and conspiracy theories, to “collusion is not a crime” – and you all fell for it. The majority sees a different reality (there’s an excellent example of YOUR mass delusions).

    Perhaps “collusion” is not a crime, but the intent to subvert elections and efforts to destroy the US government and democratic process is nothing less than treasonous. #45’s unfit rule will always be viewed as ill-conceived and illegitimate.

    To the legitimate majority, Reality is, the Bratva kept their part of the bargain (while “colluding”), manipulated the media, and your SCROTUS will never be the people’s president.

    As a service-connected disabled vet, I have faith in American democracy, and the People will continue to rise up to stop the tyranny of oppression, and this hijacking of our government by radical facists.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    The biggest issue is the high percent of black families with no father. Single parent usually equals low income. Low income equals more likely to commit crime. Right now consequences do not match actions for criminals (especially
    for police AND politicians that step over the line) and that is one of
    the biggest problems I see that we have as a nation.

    There are many ways to help correct current crime trends.
    1) First and foremost, encourage dual parent families and discourage single parent familes
    2) Take sentencing latitude (especially reduced sentences) away from judges in cases of violent crimes; rape, armed robbery, arson, assault with a deadly weapon, murder etc.
    3) Make minimum sentences for violent crimes nationwide (20 years minimum, no parole)
    4) Make violent crime records permanent, even if committed as a juvenile.
    5) Make provably false charges of rape punishable by same sentence as rape. (20 years minimum)
    6) Legalize marijuana nationally. Marijuana is less harmful than alcohol, yet families (especially poor families) are torn apart thanks to the war on marijuana.
    7) Make sure that police are trained to shoot ONLY when there is imminent danger to life.
    8) Make all police shootings require mandatory investigation by independent team
    a) team must be made up of at least 8 people
    b) team must be 50/50 split liberal/conservative
    c) team must be at least 3 races
    d) team may not have more than 3 members of the same race
    e) team will have power to REQUIRE trial or not.
    These suggestions would make a good start.

  • otrotierra

    The U.S. sure does love its White Privilege and gun culture. Domestic Terrorism is the greatest terrorist threat in the U.S., but the country can’t face such demons.

  • NunyaBusiness✓ᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

    Typical liberal. No real facts, so you make some up and you then call other people names.
    The percentage of black people living in poverty is 2.5 times higher than the percentage of non-Hispanic whites living in poverty.
    However, according to the census bureau there are 9.23 million black people living in poverty and 17.26 million non-Hispanic whites living in poverty.
    Most people realize that 17.26 million is a larger number than 9.23 million.

    The vast minority of poor people in the USA are black. 9.23 million poor black people vs 57.42 million poor of all other races in the USA.

    This is what liberals do not understand. FACTS.

    The true racists, like you, perpetuate the myth that black people cannot help themselves out of poverty

    Now go eff yourself you racist commie.

  • James,
    You are bitter but wrong. Your first paragraph is nonsense. Racism is not the problem in this country it is the Left who spews this nonsense.
    Tell us why Susan Powers unmasked 200 US Citizens up to the day she left office if you can? You are part of a minority not a majority. If it were so the great criminal Hillary Clinton would be President.
    Sorry, but you do not understand democracy at all.

  • Ron McPherson

    “Racism is not the problem in this country it is the Left who spews this nonsense.”

    Wait, what?!

    “You are part of a minority not a majority. If it were so the great criminal Hillary Clinton would be President.”

    Well, technically, Hillary actually did win the majority vote. More people (like almost 3 million more) voted for her rather than Trump. Just sayin’

  • James Quinn

    Furthermore, a little more research online seems to indicate he’s wearing a BDU woodland goretex parka and pants, which are commonly issued for cold weather deployments. Obviously, you wouldn’t blouse those because they’re not pants, but go over your pants. Also, one most commonly wears black or jungle green boots with the woodland BDU. Oh, and I also found that a red hat commonly is used to signify a member of cadre or an instructor. It sounds like you might not know military culture as much as you claim.

  • That’s correct racism is not the problem in this country; it is another of the Left’s constructs to disrupt the country. If this were not the case then you explain how 500 people have been killed in Chicago and the Mayor of that city is worried about Global Warming. When 300+ black people are killed by other black people in 9-months and we are told that the police are the problem you have to be stupid not to see what is going on.

    So as old as you are and knowing that 45 presidents have been elected with the Electoral College system you feel that the great criminal, Hillary Clinton, has something to talk about? at 304-227 she is not even in the same ballpark. She lectured Trump on accepting the election and how his statement, that he wasn’t sure yet, was outrageous. She is not in her right mind. You just have to listen to her.

  • Herm

    Thank you! This we can work together with to influence a more perfect union.

    For what both of our opinions are worth to the big picture, I agree with the obvious intent and direction that you are suggesting with items 6, 7, and 8 (all five sub-items). The only caveat that comes to mind is that our population is not as clearly defined and segregated into race, party affiliation, liberal/conservative/centrist and gender as we would like to staff the balanced grand juries you propose.

    The complexity with ethnic disparity, relative to single parent families, begins with how honest we are willing to educate our people regarding hormonal sexuality; necessary to propagate our species but destructive when used to vent inadequacy through subjugation of another. We must deal with unrealistic societal, familial and religious expectations and evolving traditions placed on our members to perform beyond doing for others as we would expect others to do for us. Until we can empathize with, have compassion for, act with equal tolerance and forgive as we would for ourselves for all members, good neighbors and evil enemies, of mankind we will not correct current crime trends. So, peruse some of the web pages that address the facts while walking in the shoes of those others you wish to incarcerate for over a quarter of their life expectancy in the USA (78.74 years).

    There is a huge disparity between each segregation of ethnic group of hope and resources to grow out of the destructive influences of each child’s environment of birth. Think about what it would have been like if your parents (parent) had nothing to give you as a child, when you were fully dependent on them to survive, unless they dealt in drugs, worked two or more fulltime jobs each still below the poverty level, and a school system offering subpar curriculum still unaffordable to the immediate community (like inner city Detroit, Michigan or Chicago, Illinois). Consider where your father, or mother went, before you were born, when convicted of selling drugs or illegal cigarettes on the sidewalk. Compare that to whatever opportunities your family had to encourage hope for a competitive future greater than an animal instinct to survive. The numbers you don’t include, relative to a larger number of Black single parent families, is the Black and/or mixed families that grow up in the physical communities of advantage equal to yours.

    Single parent statistics:
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2016/cb16-192.html
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_01.pdf
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

    One of the items you addressed (#6) would be a good start to correcting racial and ethnic crime disparities according to the following:

    Harsh drug laws are clearly an important factor in the persistent racial and ethnic disparities observed in state prisons. For drug crimes disparities are especially severe, due largely to the fact that blacks are nearly four times as likely as whites to be arrested for drug offenses and 2.5 times as likely to be arrested for drug possession.29) This is despite the evidence that whites and blacks use drugs at roughly the same rate. From 1995 to 2005, African Americans comprised approximately 13 percent of drug users but 36% of drug arrests and 46% of those convicted for drug offenses.30)

    http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons/

    I have the education and experience in the causes and results of incarceration, especially when intended to serve as a deterrent and/or as a positive educational tool for criminal behavior, to know that your simplistic penal “good start”s (items 2 through 5) do create exactly the opposite results from what you are trying to achieve.

    recidivism:

    Using a Bureau of Justice Statistic study finding inmates released from state prisons have a five-year recidivism rate of 76.6%, the USSC study calculated comparable federal prisoners released have a 44.7% re-arrest rate after five years.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-zoukis/report-documents-us-recid_b_9542312.html

    Tax cost of incarceration per inmate:
    https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/07/19/2016-17040/annual-determination-of-average-cost-of-incarceration

    False accusations of rape:
    https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/
    https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297

    Incarceration and violent crime rates (mostly murder) by nation:
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/incarceration.aspx
    http://metrocosm.com/prison-population-map/
    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Gun-crime/Guns-per-100-residents
    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate
    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

    You are clearly sincere and that is a good start to influencing solutions. We can direct our combined efforts toward humankind improvement much more surely if we try to end segregating equally endowed members of our species, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, into groups of others separate in concern from me and mine. If you do not want others to empathize with you, to have compassion for you, to be tolerant of you, and to forgive you for your imperfections then we have nothing to share for you don’t want to be loved by others of your species, and won’t be able to love others of your species.

    Consider that our focus for survival must be for the whole of mankind as one species because each member, each other, within mankind will die. There is much truth in united we stand, divided we fall.

  • Ron McPherson

    “That’s correct racism is not the problem in this country; it is another of the Left’s constructs to disrupt the country…When 300+ black people are killed by other black people in 9-months and we are told that the police are the problem you have to be stupid not to see what is going on.”

    Ok, first of all. We all know that whites kill whites, blacks kill blacks, whites kill blacks, and blacks kill whites. People of all colors and shapes kill other people of colors and shapes. Yeah, we all get that. We also get that not every cop has Barney Fife syndrome against people of color. But this provides literally zero evidence against the reality of racism, whether on police forces or society in general. So you think if racism is not a motive for 300 black people killing 300 other black people in Chicago, then that somehow must also mean that no other murders across this country are racially motivated? Are you actually hating on “the Left” because they have the audacity for reporting on any white cops killing unarmed black people?

    “So as old as you are and knowing that 45 presidents have been elected with the Electoral College system you feel that the great criminal, Hillary Clinton, has something to talk about? at 304-227 she is not even in the same ballpark.”

    The majority of voters pushed the button for Hillary Clinton. That’s just a fact. I understand she was not elected by virtue of the electoral system. We all get that too, Bob. But you told James he was “part of a minority not a majority” in not supporting Trump. Yet, Trump rec’d only 46% of the votes, clearly not a majority of people in this country. Did he receive a majority of electoral votes on paper? Of course. Did he receive a majority of the votes from living, breathing humans? No. Is Trump enjoying support from a majority of people today? No. His approval rating is something like 37%. Now if James can morph himself into an inanimate electoral college number somehow, then yes, you can rightly claim he is in the minority. But if James is a living, breathing person (I assume he is by virtue of using a computer and commenting in this thread), then no, you can’t claim he represents a minority (at least with respect to whether or not he approves of the sitting POTUS).

  • The Left does not have audacity; they simply want to change the country to suit their warped views and they will not be successful as demonstrated by the extreme loss of democrat seats in Congress, the Legislatures the Governors and the Presidency. Liberalism is just about through for 30 years they just don’t know it yet. And yes, I know racism when I see it and the police are not the problem you seem to feel they are.

    You are also wrong about Trumps support. The ratings are meaningless; elections count. If the Republicans get trounced in 2018 then I will believe it. Liberals are a minority in this country. Based on the Media you would think they are in control and in power but there not are they?

  • Ron McPherson

    “…the police are not the problem you seem to feel they are.”

    What does this even mean? Who are “the police?” NYPD or deputies from Tupelo, Mississippi? Which “police” do I have a problem with? Please be specific instead of just broad-brushing everything as either all or none, criminal Hillary or I cannot tell a lie Trump, conservative or liberal, right or left, all racist or all totally pure as the driven snow? Do you only see everything in purely binary terms? Please explain to me how I feel about “the police” considering the only thing I have written is this: ‘We also get that not every cop has Barney Fife syndrome against people of color. But this provides literally zero evidence against the reality of racism, whether on police forces or society in general.’

    “You are also wrong about Trumps support.”

    Huh, who would have ever thought that 46% represents an obvious majority. Must be new math.

  • michael corbin

    You people sure do like to throw around that white privilege BS. Hey Einstein didn’t you here it was a country concert(isn’t that suppose to be the core of white privilege) and that at least 98% of the people killed were white. Play your race card like the mayor of San Juan, people will see you for who you are.

  • michael corbin

    Just saying they already uncovered hundreds of thousands of illegal votes. And states like Cal. Ill. N.Y. won’t cooperate and show the books, why?
    And Hillary received 5 million more votes in Cal. than Trump. So Hillary won Cal. which we all know had no telling how many illegal votes.Just Saying.

  • michael corbin

    From what i know of Long Tan it happened in early 66 and was down south. I got there in Aug. 67 and was in the central highlands. It was also an all Aussie operation as far as I know, and they did a good job. I met 4 Aussies at an em club had drinks with them and they were nice guys. I never really knew any and didn’t serve with them we had S.Koreans with us and they were good fighters also. I would never degrade anybody that put their life on the line the coward part was meant for the thugs who tried to hustle us.
    Now as far as running away goes. Do you mean the U.S. from Nam? If so you don’t know jack. Vietnam was given away. The war started on a lie by a Dem. intensified by a Dem. and then pushed off on Nixon who got all the blame for not ending it soon enough. Then the Dem. congress gave it away by refusing to give Vietnam any more aid, even though we signed a agreement to do so. They gave it away.
    And you ask how can i support a draft dodger. When the choice is between a draft dodger and somebody that watched while Americans died and refused to send help, the choice is easy. At lest with the draft dodger you know what you got. Hillary is a snake and she may very well still end up being convicted. They probably wouldn’t put her in jail because of age and all. But watch what comes out.

  • ExtremePacifist

    he just needs to repent and renounce his time as a soldier as all Christian who were in the military must do. We all sin, and I am a sinner and I repent daily when I realize any sin I have committed. Confess, repent and renounce, that’s how us Christians must live to faithfully follow Jesus. Peace.

  • Herm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

    Yup, otrotierra, was not exactly correct relating to terrorism. He should really have been more explicit and said white male Christian oligarchy privilege due, today, mostly to gerrymandering that skews in favor of that very select, very small, but powerful national influence.

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔@realDonaldTrump
    The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.
    …Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They….
    …want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job.
    Sep 30, 2017

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba8905703d3cd2bc7aefa590503d249212654d28973ecabeb47a2b3afb2c215b.jpg

    Those privileged enough to keep out the homeless we made so by our invasion of Iraq and influential enough to make certain our gun manufacturers remain in business, at the cost of the 98% white folk enjoying a country concert.

  • Ron McPherson

    Yeah, let’s just say the ‘illegal votes’ in Cal. cancelled out Russian interference and Comey’s timely email investigation (ya know, conspiracy left cancels out conspiracy right). Now we’re back on even ground.

    But even if you just totally eliminated Cal, NY, Illinois (like throw out every single one of the 24,444,772 votes cast in those states), Trump still gets less than 50% (48.7%) of all votes cast.

  • Herm

    Bob???? Do you mean Samantha Powers or Susan Rice? The problem with flashing your ignorance is that you don’t know what you don’t know to know that you’re are flashing your ignorance. You are sorry because, as you have proven, you believe that crap without any reasoning research. James has shown that he researches all sides available and you haven’t.

    As long as you insist on blindly believing that you and yours are Right, and all who disagree with you, with contrasting researchable and provable facts, are Left, there can be no unity in the United States of America. You represent what is bitter in the USA to most at home and abroad.

  • Les Mayer

    Another voice of reason, and so beautifully articulated. A must read for all, but especially followers of Jesus who cling too tightly to patriotism and partisan politicking. Read this slowly and think hard on it…please.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2017/10/02/takeaknee/

  • Herm

    they simply want to change the country to suit their warped views

    “THEY” only want the sum of the law!!! That’s not protectionism or nationalism but is living up to the standard that all of mankind are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, equally.

  • So I see can read the names but how is it you cannot comprehend the message? Perhaps your spirit is not working today?

  • Who are “they.”

  • The issue is standing for the National Anthem and not disrespecting our flag and our country.

  • Herm

    Thanks Chris, you might like to read about Archie’s credentials, who wrote that article and, also, the person he demeaned:

    Archie
    https://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/about/

    John Shore
    http://johnshore.com/
    http://www.njohnshorejr.com/

    Honestly, as all I can do is testify that this is so, I know the Spirit of truth more surely than I do either of those people, because I see Him, accept Him and am whelmed in Him and He in me without pause or end.

    I have no need to be known as anything more than an infant child of God who follows my Lord and Brother, Jesus the Son of Man/Son of God, Christ, Messiah (whom I am in Him and He is in me, without pause or end). That is written to be the Way in scripture.

    We may not be in company with the majority but we, who follow Jesus as our only serving master, are in the most divine company with our Father, our Lord Jesus and all our children born of the Spirit.

    But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

    “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

    “He is worthy of death,” they answered. Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

    Matthew 26:63-68 (NIV2011)

    There are those, a majority even, that deny that Jesus lives today, exercising all authority in heaven and on earth, no less than than they, the majority, denied that He could be a child of God, much less than the only begotten Son of God, 1,987 years ago. Those deniers have more than enough written to confirm both but read only what suits their purposes. What authority does Man have to decide whether you or I is a follower of Christ as His students (Christian)? Even when Jesus was carnal He refused to judge another, that was our Father’s authority to do so, and those who sat on the seat of Moses who judged to crucify the Son of God in God’s name.

    Don’t, please, base your truths on the traditions of mankind. Continue to ask the Spirit of truth given to us by our Father and made possible to be in us by our Brother the Christ, Jesus. You will be, as it seems you already are, answered as you can bear.

    Don’t push your relationship with and in God on those who are not receptive to God. You would not want those who are not receptive to God to push their belief on you. Just loved them all as much as they can bear.

  • Herm

    The Left does not have audacity; they simply want to change the country to suit their warped views

  • Ron McPherson

    Yes Bob, you’ve been clear. To you, racism is not a real problem but not standing for the flag is. We get it

  • Herm

    I comprehend the truth and making unmasking requests is not, nor ever will be, illegal for both positions that were officially occupied by Samantha Powers and Susan Rice. This has been the norm for every administration and security bureaus for both Republicans and Democrats. You really are duped by far right wing propaganda.

  • michael corbin

    Russian collusion is a farce( unless you’re talking about Hillary and Uranium 1) and will be proven so. Watch what Mueller says. And if you throw those states out Hillary “would” get more than 50%. Why is it liberals don’t mind showing an I.D. card for welfare or food stamps, but asking for one to vote is racist?

  • Ron McPherson

    “And if you throw those states out Hillary “would” get more than 50%. ”

    Lol. I’m showing that it’s incorrect to suggest that Trump enjoys majority support, not that Hillary should have it instead.

    “Why is it liberals don’t mind showing an I.D. card for welfare or food stamps, but asking for one to vote is racist?”

    What the crap?

  • The two past ambassadors to United Nations ask for 14 names between them to be unmasked. Powers ask for 200+ almost one every day until the last day she worked. That is why she has to appear before the Senate committee shortly.
    Let’s see if she can explain her actions?

  • michael corbin

    As far as the country is concerned,he does have majority support. The number of states he won prove that. And it makes no difference how many votes Hillary won,she had 5 million more votes in Cal. alone. Where everybody in the world knows illegals voted. And there may be 15 million illegals there. And if you think that 2/3’s of the country is going to let Cal. decide, you’re living in a fantasy world.
    And i know Cal. gives them a drivers license and that’s all they need to vote. And not just Cal. Mich. had to stop their recount right away when they came up with more votes than voters in just Detroit. And the same with Penn.,Mary.
    And what do you mean crap. Are you saying that the liberals haven’t fought in every state against showing an I.D. to vote?

  • Ron McPherson

    What does being a “liberal” have to do with food stamps?

  • Herm

    Bob, you have been spouting conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory supporting your self centered empty causes, that never reach fruition, for so long it is really tiring to hear another that has no substance beyond inflated conjecture. Ambassador Powers is appearing before congress for information, not from any indictment of criminal guilt. You live in an imaginary world of Rush Limbaugh like surmise that is lie, nothing but lie. He, Rush Limbaugh, lost me decades ago when nothing, nothing he accused the liberal, progressive, leftist Democrats of doing to overthrow this nation ever was proved, nothing. You truly are an idiot if you think you can get anyone here to support your pitiful attempt for self empowerment on the basis of someone, anyone, being called to appear before the Senate committee. That is evidence of nothing!!!

  • michael corbin

    All kinds of people need help with food stamps. Some people who don’t need them or deserve them also get them. Liberals don’t mind showing an I.D. to get them. So what is wrong with showing one when you vote.And i stressed liberals because i haven’t seen or heard of any conservatives fighting against it. Only liberals fight it,why?

  • John

    It’s too bad you don’t stand with most of us who also served. In fact, you would be the ONLY veteran I’ve heard express this view. 90% disability? Clearly there are some issues. I hope you get the help you need soldier.

  • You can’t read either. Powers will be ask in closed doors to answer questions about why she asked to unmask so many names. She has no good reasons and the senators already know why she, Rice and Rose ask for so many names. They were spying on the Trump campaign just as the President said. We all know what they did and soon you will too.

  • Herm

    Do you know the difference between conjecture and evidence? What evidence do you have?

  • Bones

    Are you still trying to use crime in chicago as some sort of justification for why black people are violent? Thats a racist meme from the 1800s right there. We can’t let da blacks go or they’ll rape all the white women.

    It’s called poor on poor crime jackass.

    And the vast majority of the poor are blacks.

  • Bones

    The Right is a dickhead who needs to get out from reading altright bs.

    I bet you thought the shooter last night was a leftie like the right wing media screamed.

  • Bones

    Someone lives in an alt-right fantasy.

    From last month…

    Trump’s approval stood at 34 percent in the Gallup poll, tied for his lowest mark ever—a figure he has hit several times (and as recently as last week) after hovering at about 35 percent for most of the week. Trump’s disapproval number stood at 60 percent in the Gallup survey.

    It’s only the draft dodgers blind supporters who promote this fake news that Trump represents the majority.

  • Bones

    Not according to Twitter and Facebook……..

  • Bones

    What sort of an ideology slanders a guy as a dead mass murderer based on his politics?

    The fake news of the right is being found out.

  • Bones

    Trump’s disapproval rating = 55%, that was before the Puerto Rico fiasco when he was out golfing…..

    You seem to think that the majority are mindless idiots like you.

  • Bones

    This was the ‘scoop’ by the Pizzagate guy.

  • Bones

    Reality v Right wing fantasy….

    Rice cleared…

    Top Obama official ADMITS she ‘unmasked’ Trump team’s names from intelligence and says she did it because they had a secret meeting with an Arab prince
    Susan Rice told members of the House Intelligence Committee she ‘unmasked’ Trump officials over a meeting with a prince from the United Arab Emirates
    The UAE’s crown prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan visited New York last December without telling the US government, a typical courtesy
    According to CNN’s reporting the prince met Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner and Steve Bannon at Trump Tower

    Now that Rice has delivered an explanation to Congress, members are walking their criticism back.
    Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., an Intelligence Committee member told the Daily Caller that there was ‘nothing that came up in her interview that led me to conclude’ she had improperly unmasked the Trump officials or leaked their names to the press.
    ‘I think what she did in her role was perfectly appropriate, so I think that people were impressed with her testimony,’ said the committee’s ranking Democrat, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.
    As for Trump’s accusations that Rice had broken the law, Schiff commented: ‘It looks now like it did at the time, a baseless accusation and a slander against a dedicated public servant, not unlike the president’s suggestion that he had been illegally wiretapped at Trump Tower,’ the lawmaker said on CNN shortly after the UAE story broke.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4882138/Rice-ADMITS-unmasking-Trump-officials-UAE-meeting.html#ixzz4uQx2CUvG
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  • Ron McPherson

    It just seems telling you’ve somehow linked liberal with food stamps with minorities (objects of racism)

  • Bones

    Plenty on here have….Maybe get away from alt-Right sites.

    It really is interesting how abhorrent the Right are – even to their servicemen and women.

    And as we’ve seen they’d think of nothing about slandering an innocent family man as a mass murder because he liked Obama.

    Truly disgusting creatures.

  • Herm

    He still has not read even one of the congressional “final” reports on Benghazi yet. He remains patriotically certain that she will be locked up for that, pimping underage girls to Washington elites, playing for pay by using the Clinton foundation in the example of the Trump foundation, using her own private secured server for confidential government business (as the State Department’s was not as it was hacked) that set a bad example for Ivanka, Jared and Steve, and her murder of Vince Foster. He has yet to figure it out that no uppity woman should ever take on healthcare as a prim and proper First Lady or forgive to live out her husband’s tension release, as did Eleanor Roosevelt and Jackie Kennedy. We are so lucky to have someone like Bob Shiloh on the inside of all the swampy dirt to know what’s really happening.

  • Herm

    … those Puerto Rico, citizens of the United States of America, truck drivers that won’t help to distribute the goods stuck on the dock don’t have any homes for their family, any roads to get to work and a vehicle to get to the trucks that have insufficient roads to traverse. You throw around your white privileged BS, playing your race card, in defense of your blind allegiance to a flag, song and tweeting commander chief, all the while, berating a blond mayor who is on the ground, in the water, serving her people while speaking a Brown alien language. We see you for who you are.

  • Herm

    You really don’t understand Jim Crow and gerrymandering to defeat the premise of majority rule, do you? Your illegal voter campaign has been floated by the decreasing percentage of white male Christian voters throughout our United States of America, been investigate thoroughly by local Republican officials and our national congress, and has been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt a red herring. Check the facts before you make yourself look anymore than an ignorant rebel rouser; a demagogue.

  • John

    Firstly, thank you for your service. I will honor that no matter what.

    Secondly, it seems that the majority of your military peers disagree with what you’ve said. When people speak up for our military personnel, they are speaking for the majority, not every individual.

    Thirdly, this seems to be more about your political stance than your support of free speech. In one paragraph you support and celebrate those using their free speech to protest the flag while also condemning others for using their free speech to demand non-legal consequences. So do you support free speech, or do you only support free speech in the name of the ideology that you agree with?

  • John

    The fact that you used “alt-right” AND “sites” in the same sentence tells me all I need to know.

    Do you even have any idea what you’re talking about?

    Sounds like treason you Fukn communist kook.

  • John

    Actually I want to hear this. Explain fully what “alt-right” is.

    I want to see you trip all over your clumsy mind.

  • Mr. G.

    The ONLY one? Well, listen up. I’m a Viet Nam era combat vet who agrees with this writer 100%. Now you know of at least two of us. ;-)

  • Mr. G.

    Trump is playing to his Deplorable base – and not a whit more. This Viet Nam era combat vet agrees with the writer of this piece and supports the NFL players taking a knee and/or locking arms in unity to make a statement against the unequal treatment of non-white people by our police and court system. P.S. I am also old and white.

  • michael corbin

    You’re a liar, nobody said anything about minorities other than you. Liberals, Dems. what don’t you understand? The Dem. party are liberals, are they not? And for your information i think “white” liberals such as your self are the worst of all. Like just now injecting race into something that was never said. You people are pathetic always trying to stir racial hatred.
    Do you people know what you’re doing? People are getting tired of being called racist just because we show concern for the country. You people are ready to throw open the borders, invite everybody and their brother in We’ll take care of you, BS. You people will realize how bad you FKed up when they rise up, and that point is getting very close.

  • michael corbin

    Ya know Worm, I’m getting tired of you calling me ignorant you pious jerk. Who came up with Jim Crow? White Dems. that’s who. And it was used to keep blacks out of everything from education to railroads to the voting booth.
    And who came up with Gerry Mandering. Gov. Gerry of Mass. who invented it to bolster his Dem. party in 1812.
    It has been used by both sides every since. The Dems. have used it many times to win. If the Reps. got the best of them this time, too bad. You should be at least smart enough to play the game you invented.

  • michael corbin

    What the hell are you talking about stupid? What race card was played? Just you pukes have even mentioned race. And what’s this “We” see you for who you are. You cowards are afraid to speak as your self without saying “We”. What are you looking for support, a cheering gallery? Drop Dead you Pious POS.

  • Herm

    I didn’t invent the game, just for your edification.

    Funny how the carpetbaggers were a majority of Democrats but when the Democratic Party stood up to support all citizens, regardless of race, creed, religious beliefs, sexual attraction and gender identity the white Christian gentlemen switched parties. No, maybe not so funny because now the Republican party owns that stain!

    I’m calling you ignorant if you really believe the majority of the legally qualified voters in the United States of America support Trump. You are ignorant if you really believe food stamps and safety nets for all our people in time of need is solely a policy of the Left, as that infers Christ was not right.

    It has never been the ID that is considered unjust, for our legal voters, but how hard the Republican party has made it to get that ID for those they would prefer not to vote. There would be much more support for making IDs readily available to all qualified if voter fraud, beyond an inconsequential few, was ever proven. You will remain ignorant until you check the facts of your active surmise.

  • michael corbin

    You’re not too bright are you. RCP average 40% approval. In case you don’t know what that is Real Clear Politics average of top ten polls in the U.S. And it’s a fact that they over sample Dems. CNN 38% more Dems. and WaPo 30% more Dems. are the worst.
    And BTW these same top ten last November said Hillary will win in a landslide. Next time you see President Hillary say hello for me will you. Idiot.
    BTW Hillary is 18%.

  • Ron McPherson

    “You’re a liar, nobody said anything about minorities other than you.”

    Lol. Below are your exact words.

    “Why is it liberals don’t mind showing an I.D. card for welfare or food stamps, but asking for one to vote is racist?”

    So other than minorities, who would feel victimized by racists?

  • michael corbin

    And there you go again a whole. Point to any where that i said food stamps is solely a policy of the left, you can’t can you.
    I said all kinds of people need food stamps, and a lot are getting them that don’t.
    And Dems care for all citizens regardless of race creed etc., really? Maybe it’s you that need to look up a few things. Like civil rights. Every piece of civil rights laws was written and pushed by Reps. Especially the civil rights act of 56 and 64. In 64 the Reps. pushed it and two times it was vetoed by Johnson. When the Reps. got enough votes to override his veto he said, O.K. let’s sign this we’ll have these n—–s voting Dem. for the next hundred years. That’s were their priorties lies. Look it up nit-wit.
    And I.D. was offered with a free ride and card. The Dems. still didn’t and don’t want it, they couldn’t slip all their illegal votes in that way. So take your liberal BS and stuff it.

  • Herm

    Welcome to the land of the free and the home of the brave! I am not devoutly religious, hypocritical of virtue, nor of unfulfilled hope. The reference tying “White Privilege” to “gun culture” has to do with who is most responsible, purely for political and financial gain, for the proliferation of weapons of domestic mass destruction in the United States of America. Those who do what they can to keep nuclear weapons, fertilizer and chemical weapons out of the hands of our nations enemies, at home and abroad, but make it possible for any wealthy white guy to get two rooms and a house full of fully automatic AR15s with 223 cal projectiles designed to rip and tear as it tumbles are the White Privileged.

    As to domestic terrorism is clearly a greater threat than any potentially imported terrorism from two year vetted immigrants, without a home because we invaded Iraq, it again is the White Privileged who are most responsible for those nationalist demons. I don’t need a cheering gallery but it sure is nice to have some around me who understand that strength in reality isn’t ever going to come from those who divisively throw out the term “race card” first. It is not reality to even believe that a single patriotically united nation is the goal here if we continue to exclude the rest of the majority of mankind in our efforts to unite.

    We see you for who you are.

  • Ron McPherson

    Fox also predicted Hillary to win lol

  • michael corbin

    Really? Well that makes sense seeing as how there in the top ten. But to be fair they said by 3 1/2 % CNN and WaPo and NBC were touting numbers like 20-30% a landslide. Fox never used that term, they did.

  • Nick

    The Daily Caller isn’t news. It is a fringe element of our society.

    With that said, I agree with your statement that players are putting their careers at risk. One has to look no farther than Kaepernick to see that. I cannot help but applaud when Americans use their rights to help others.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/usa-today-poll-americans-say-trump-wrong-nfl-protests/721809001/

    New poll yesterday shows that America doesn’t like its president acting this way. It has shifted support away from opposing the protest of the flag to support of standing up to a bully.

  • Nick

    Hi John. I’m Nick. I am a vet who agrees with Americans exercising their Constitutional rights. I have a hard time imagining what greater honor could be shown to vets then people exercising their rights while suffering. Flags and parades are cheap compared to what protesters have faced in this country.

  • Nick, the people on this website are a fringe element in society. I’d like to have a website with 11 million unique visitors each month like The Daily Caller.

    As to the NFL players, they have been duped into thinking they are doing something about Racism in this country. Most of America doesn’t know what they are kneeling for and of those who do and those who don’t do not like it. The Cardinals vs the SF is a case in point. I have never been so proud of our teem as on Sunday.

    If you are right then the ratings of the NFL will soar as people flock to the wisdom of the Left and the President will become weak with the righteous Left hot on his trail. But you are not and they won’t and the President will continue on his mission of draining the swamp; which is now coming along nicely.

  • Bones

    The issue is a president who supports the free speech of Nazis but not black people.

    And who says the majority of military personnel agree with you? Did they make you their spokesman?

  • Bones

    Lol…..stop sucking on the alt-right teat, you goose.

  • Bones

    Honestly do you think you have an ounce of credibility for disrespecting a vet because of his political views?

    You really are a despicable creature.

  • Bones

    You’re not too bright.

    Your draft dodging hero has the lowest approval rating of any US president ever in their first year.

    I can see your going to be really confused about this shooter with all the right wing misinformation flying around.

  • Bones

    Nope….you are the lunatic fringe of society.

    As for the credibility of the Daily Caller….

    This says it all

    Daily Caller, Fox News Delete Video Celebrating ‘Liberal Protesters’ Getting ‘Pushed Out of the Way by Cars’
    A controversial January article from Daily Caller, which was picked up by Fox News, has been quietly scrubbed from both outlets’ websites

    http://www.snopes.com/2017/08/16/daily-caller-fox-news-delete-video-celebrating-liberal-protesters-getting-pushed-way-cars/

    The Daily Caller Removes ‘Unite the Right’ Organizer Jason Kessler’s Bylines From Web Site
    The conservative site has deleted articles by a white supremacist who organized the deadly rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

    http://www.snopes.com/2017/08/14/daily-caller-removes-jason-kesslers-byline-from-site/

  • Ron McPherson

    Meanwhile back in reality land, the chaos of Trump’s administration continues with no end in sight. Firings and resignations of notable staff just since Trump took office:

    __ Sept. 29: Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price

    __ Aug. 25: National security aide Sebastian Gorka

    __ Aug. 18: Chief strategist Steve Bannon

    __ July 31: Communications director Anthony Scaramucci

    __ July 28: Chief of staff Reince Priebus

    __ July 21: Press secretary Sean Spicer

    __ May 30: Communications director Michael Dubke

    __ Feb. 13: National security adviser Michael Flynn

    Now, Secretary of State Tillerson is trying to quit , not to mention the 69 members from Trump’s various advisory boards who have already quit.

  • Bones

    Congrats to those draft dodger supporters who come on here to discredit a veteran and his service because of his political views.

    What a wonderful example of America you are.

  • Bones

    At least he’ll be safe over here….from cops and nutters with guns……and he’ll have free healthcare….and he won’t have to have a d*ck comparison to see who is the most patriotic.

    Our main military celebration is remembering our greatest defeat – Gallipoli. A f***ing fiasco.

  • Matthew

    Sorry to take this a bit off topic, but why on God’s green earth was Trump throwing rolls of paper towels in Puerto Rico?????? Shouldn’t he have simply handed them out gently?

  • Ron McPherson

    Beats the heck outta me. Another day in Bizarro land

  • Bones

    Yeah that was darn strange. Sort’ve like he was Santa Claus giving presents out to the kids who just kept throwing to the back of the crowd. . But that’s his narcissism which has to make Puerto Rico’s tragedy about him.

    Trump should’ve stayed on his golf course that’s how useless he was.

    No doubt his fanboys loved it.

  • Matthew

    Ron … it is so hard for me to wrap my head around the reality that this guy is the POTUS. Everyday it seems he says or does something that is simply crazy!

    Yes … another day in Bizarro land …

  • Daniel Fisher

    Well said. It is most sad to me to notice how blindly inconsistent Dr. Corey is in this regard… toward those with whom he is sympathetic, he supports anything they say on the basis of “free speech”. But he is not so quick to defend the “free speech” of those with whom he disagrees. And his apparent blindness to his own hypocrisy is perhaps the saddest part.

    And, given that I am active duty military, I could equally say to Dr. Corey, “you insult me, you dishonor me, you exploit me for your own cause.” But that would be ridiculously unfair to invoke my military status to try to gain points in such a discussion, So I will refrain.

  • Daniel Fisher

    “In fact, there is nothing more opposed to the values I fought for than to use threats and coercion to force someone to express something they don’t wish to express.”

    Sir, I am again delighted that you are so willing to express such clear support to all those Evangelical musicians, florists, and bakers who are finding themselves forced to express things they don’t wish to express. Your choice of words is spot-on.

  • Ron McPherson

    I’m having some trouble in seeing the equivalency in that. Forcing someone to abide by non-discriminatory law does not equate to forced expression does it?. Not standing for a flag does not prohibit another from doing it and thus is not infringing on another’s rights to do it. Wouldn’t that equivalency be like saying a racist fry cook shouldn’t be required to serve a sandwich to a black person because he shouldn’t be subject to coercion?

  • Ron McPherson

    Keep in mind though that Ben allows what I would think is the ultimate in free speech by allowing those with dissenting views to comment freely on his blog here.

  • Herm

    Dr. Corey, Dr. Corey, Dr. Corey, remove this comment! Daniel Fisher disagrees!

  • Daniel Fisher

    I’m simply taking Mr. Corey’s words at face value, I’m implying no equivalency with anything. For what it is worth, I agree with you that non-discrimination laws don’t force expression.

    But since you asked, it is clearly not “discrimination” in the generally understood sense if these individuals have shown themselves willing to serve lgbt individuals in all manners of goods and services, but object specifically and only to being forced to express things they don’t want to express.

    Like the baker in NI who declined baking a cake that said “support gay marriage”, when he had no clue about the sexual orientation of the individual who ordered it. How can any right minded person say he was discriminating against gays? It could well have been (and for all I know might have been) a straight person ordering the cake. The baker had no objection whatsoever to serving anyone, gay, straight, or anything. He objected to being forced to express something he didn’t want to express.

  • Daniel Fisher

    Corrected. And if we’re being pedantic, then it is CDR Fisher, thank you…

  • Bones

    Well no.

    He’s clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of people like trump who described nazis as ‘good people’ and black NFL players as son’s of bitches and called for or them to be sacked.

    Could you imagine the outrage if Obama called for people who don’t support same sex marriage to be sacked?

    And it’s trump who is using the military for his own agenda….in this case to drum up support with white racists in Alabama.

  • John Gagliano

    Wahhh. I’m a 26 year retiree with a 90% VA rating, 50% combat related. I’ve been in 3 combat zones and have been awarded a bronze star and have made the same sacrifices this crybaby has. I think taking a knee during the national anthem is the ultimate in disrespect. I’ve saluted the flag in 16 countries on 4 continents. Every time I salute I think of those who have sacrificed more than I and the least I can do to show my respect for them is to stand proud for 1 minute and 18 seconds (longer if I was in another country).

  • Herm

    … as in captain second grade … I was being precise with the facts presented.

  • Herm

    … and that has not been denied you, by anyone. If taking a knee during the national anthem is the ultimate in disrespect for you, and you don’t wish to be disrespected, then I would suggest you don’t take a knee for your comrades at arms, or your friend’s/family member’s funeral, or your God. You see, they’re very quiet when they take a knee so as to not disturb your public display of respect. Maybe, we could be a little more quiet, too, and not disturb the respect they on their knees are showing for the lives lost in fear of those who once shared their heritage.

    Now, a Nazi salute might be disrespectful toward our national anthem and our flag, but surely not quietly taking a knee or, even, sitting this one out.

  • John

    I said you couldn’t explain what “alt-right” was, and I was correct. You’re an idiot, and I am a veteran.

  • Michael, excellent analysis and posts. Of the two you are debating with, one is in a mental institution in Australia and the other follows the god of this world and talks to him for advice and counsel.

  • And just think, you will get to see this everyday for the next many years. How appropriate for those of us who had to watch the previous administration try to destroy this country in every way possible while the Left applauded. This is the best revenge. But don’t worry, the Great Criminal, Hillary Clinton, may run again to tell America she can save the day as she care for us.

  • The Left wants the destruction of this country and nothing less.

  • Matthew

    I don´t think presidential elections should be about revenge.

  • Ron McPherson

    That’s ridiculous

  • Herm

    Why do you make such absurd, unsubstantiated observations when you know it only makes you look weak, ignorant and a surrogate for the most destructive them against us mentality?

    Who is this “The Left” that you incite to prove to you that “they” care as much as you for this nation, the world and all of humankind? What makes them more evil than Jesus Christ who you say you follow?

  • Apparently our government allowed the “Bump Stock” to be sold in 2010. So much for the government taking care of us.

    “While bump stocks are taking criticism from Democrats and Republicans alike, it is interesting to note that the devices were approved for sale in 2010 by Barack Obama’s ATF.”

    “(CNSNews.com) – On June 7, 2010 — about a year and a half into the Barack Obama administration — the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issued an opinion letter, giving the go-ahead to an after-market accessory that allows the user to “bump fire” a semi-automatic rifle.

    Imagine how the Left is crafting their reply for the ATF’s blunder to wiggle out of this one.

  • Herm

    Why do you make such absurd, unsubstantiated observations when you know it only makes you look weak, ignorant and a surrogate for the most destructive them against us mentality? We know you read Breitbart as White Nationalist truth bent on taking us and the world back to the America great again 1930’s of Nazis, dust bowls, sweat shops and depressions.

    Do just a little homework for a change:

    Some arguably relevant history is left out of both Breitbart and The Post pieces.

    In the early years of his administration, Obama was not especially active on gun control. Rahm Emanuel, his first chief of staff and now Chicago mayor, felt strongly that the Democrats’ loss of Congress in 1994 during the Bill Clinton presidency was partly a result of pushing an assault weapons ban. Indeed, when he was a congressman and ran the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, he recruited conservative Democrats (anti-abortion, pro-guns) who helped regain congressional control for the Democrats in 2006 mid-term elections (chronicled well in “The Thumpin'” by Naftali Bendavid, now an editor at The Wall Street Journal)

    Obama called for a restoration of the ban that had died in 2004 as he campaigned for the presidency in 2008. In office, he didn’t push for it in his first term. After the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre and his own re-election, he brought it up again (and, rather ironically, derided Congress for not being on board). But nothing happened.

    https://www.poynter.org/news/strange-bedfellows-washington-post-breitbart-each-point-obama-bump-stocks

    You make it abundantly clear that “The Left” to you stands for a United States of America with a united effort to support the entire species of mankind while you segregate your “The Right” superiority from those others who just aren’t inspired for your separatist bigotry. Do you remember what was happening in 2010 politically with an inspired Tea Party embraced by the GOP to get out of their super loss in 2007, with, at best, 25% of a base?

    That is so very childish to even intimate that anyone is trying to “wiggle out” of the truth, unless you’re speaking about yourself. We are all blind to most things but the socially healthy learn who shares their perspective in all honesty and those with a self centered agenda spouting only propaganda for their personal cause. You serve, by how you ignorantly throw out your inciting one sided vindictives, propaganda not truth. Grow up!

  • Matthew

    How are you feeling today Bob?

  • Herm
  • Herm

    I am a combat, in country, veteran and Breitbart is an alt right web site.

  • A little touchy are we? Apparently that blunder by Obama hit home?

  • Herm

    Are you kidding? Like I said, grow up. This is real and as you’re making this some kind of game without looking at all sides is destructive!

  • And you invoke the name of Ram Emanuel. The mayor of Chicago who has presided over 500+ murders just since 2017. Unwilling to stop the murders in his own city he worries about Sanctuary and Global Warming. These people are frauds!

  • Herm

    Bob, I did not invoke the name Rahm (not Ram) Emanuel, Poynter did. Are you really that scatter brain to connect the murders he is taking every legal attempt to curb to being a Sanctuary city with the fact of very serious global warming (Houston, Florida, and Puerto Rico as only a few examples) that have nothing at all to do with one another. You don’t speak facts, you speak innuendo!

  • Bones

    Chicago’s problems of poverty and violence are not something that can be solved by a mayor ffs.

    It involves all tiers of government.

  • Bones

    Its good to see you coming round to gun regulations which Obama called for.

    The slaughter of innocent children didn’t but one word from your messiah does.

    And on bump stocks….

    “But because a bump stock is not a firearm, the ATF classified it as firearm part — so the ATF wrote in a letter that it approved it because it doesn’t have any real jurisdiction over firearm parts.

    “We find that the bump stock is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act,” ATF said in a letter at the time.”

  • Bones

    Good to see you change your tuNE about gun violence when trump tells you to.

    Of course the slaughter of 20 odd little kids couldn’t move you.

    Could you imagine your outrage if Obama banned them.

  • Daniel Fisher

    From Another Who Sacrificed: Stop Using Yourself in Your Pro-“Take a Knee” Argument.

    Sir, I read this article again and am befuddled. Respectfully, I fear you are terribly blind to the double standard and hypocrisy that pervades this piece. I read it again and am astounded at the systemic double standard. Consider what else you ought to say if you were attempting some semblance of consistency:

    “Instead of disrespected, I feel my sacrifice deeply honored every single time I see a politician condemn football players taking a knee and suggesting they be fired, because that represents the freedom of speech and expression that I gave so much of myself to uphold.”

    “…when you participate in a public campaign to harm or end their careers simply because they are using the very rights veterans like myself have sacrificed for, you are also exercising that same free speech that I sacrificed for.”

    “…What I’d also like you to know is that it is actually your exercise of free speech in articulating your position dissenting from those taking a knee that honors what I have given for this nation.”

    “There is no position that disrespects me, or dishonors my sacrifice, including the position of those seeking the football players taking a knee to be fired…. since the freedom to express even that view is what I sacrificed for.”

    Sentiments like that would show some logical consistency. But you wrote above, in effect, is basically this: people honor those of us who sacrificed when they exercise their right to free speech – so long as they are expressing a position or ideology with which you are at core sympathetic. However, if President Trump, or other conservatives, express a dissenting opinion, their exercise of free speech all of a sudden dishonors you?

    I don’t think it works that way.

    (Besides, I somehow doubt you have been just as quick to defend those public personalities on various networks that have been sacked for their exercise of free speech when it came it conservative views on marriage or sexuality. Correct me if I am mistaken.)

  • Ron McPherson

    “The mayor of Chicago who has presided over 500+ murders just since 2017”

    From Merriam-Webster: preside – exercise guidance, direction, or control.
    You make it sound as if Emanuel himself ordered mass killings.

    “Unwilling to stop the murders in his own city…”

    How might you propose he stop these murders? Confiscate all guns in Chicago? Greatly increase social aid to battle poverty?

  • Rambo Rahm Emanuel is the Mayor of the Murder Capitol of the world. He is responsible for solving the problem of gang related, drug related murders is he not? If he can’t he should step down. While 300 of those murders just this year are black on black you worry about whether his police are “hunting black men to kill.” The Left is out of control and it is being shown in graphic bloody detail every day now.

  • Example of Obama’s incompetence and lack of control of an incompetent AFT. Think “Fast and Furious.” Thanks God he is gone and good riddance.

  • Les Mayer

    Of all the many things I’ve read, this is the most balanced piece I’ve seen on this subject.

    “Our national inability to have civil discourse around difficult subjects is alarming.” (He’s definitely got that right)
    https://athletesinaction.org/underreview/what-you-might-be-missing-in-the-kneeling-debate

  • Please Ron use you head. The Mayor has all the options at his disposal. For example he can stop the drug dealing by requesting the Governor to send in the National Guard to flood the area and arrest any and all suspected drug dealers and shut down the drug activity for such a time until the dealers leave to make money elsewhere. But he does nothing because he is a Liberal and can’t imagine the civil liberties outcry. . President Trump may send in the National Guard on his own shortly and I for one can’t wait.

  • Bones

    And you would have whinged like a mangy bitch on heat if Obama hadn’t legalised those additions.

    You aren’t moved by the slaughter of innocent little kids.

    But you bow down when your draft dodging messiah says to.

    You really are a contemptible piece of work.

  • Herm

    You, Bob Shiloh, are out of control. You don’t understand the difference in issues and you offer no solutions. I will not be responding to your pleas for help until I hear something more in the realm of reality. Next time you try to destructively influence another with your trash I may have to intervene to set the record straight. I have never worried about his police.

  • Ron McPherson

    If that’s the case, then why are you not holding Trump accountable now?

  • Ron McPherson

    “…he can stop the drug dealing by requesting the Governor to send in the National Guard to flood the area and arrest any and all suspected drug dealers…”

    Oh well then. Who would have thought it was this easy? I should have just used my head like you say. Declare martial law in Chicago, “arrest any and all suspected drug dealers” cause we can throw everybody in already overcrowded jails so long as we merely ‘suspect’ they are drug dealers, ya know, like who needs actual evidence, right? Boy, I’m sure justice would really be served then lol. Let everybody with a gun round up anyone they ‘suspect’ of dealing drugs. Yeah, that would sure fix the problem.

    “…and shut down the drug activity for such a time until the dealers leave to make money elsewhere.”

    Um. Under your plan, wouldn’t all the dealers already be in jail? But beyond that, how does your plan solve anything if the dealers just “leave to make money” in some other city?

  • In other words it’s ok to let the murders in Chicago continue as long as we make sure any police shootings are fully investigated because you know they are suspect?

  • Matthew

    I think Bob´s plan is already being carried out in the Philippines … think Rodrigo Duterte.

  • Accountable for not knowing that Obama’s ATF mishandled the Bump Stock issue? Or do you mean accountable for beating the Great Criminal, Hillary Clinton, and rescinding Obama’s illegal Exec Orders one by one?

  • Well said from another Veteran.

    Plus I also know what Birth Control Glasses are. Thank you for your service.

  • Ron McPherson

    Obama got berated by the ‘right’ because he was going to, like, personally go door-to-door throughout America and confiscate guns. And yet on the other hand, you then blame him for not pulling the ATF’s puppet strings because he didn’t personally ensure a ban on, guess what?, a firearm part (even though they felt they had not the authority to do it). How ironic is that? So which is it? When the fear of regulation happens, Obama gets blasted. And yet when regulation didn’t happen, Obama still gets blasted. On top of all that, Trump’s been in office 9 months and apparently you find no fault with him for not ‘mishandling’ the ATF issue. Why hasn’t he gotten the ATF under control? Since you consider the ATF as being Obama’s, why are you not holding Trump to the same standard?

  • Nathan Scarborough

    So I get what you are saying, but there is a difference between the way that those who are taking a knee during the national anthem and those condemning them for doing so are using their their speech/expression. Those who are taking a knee during the national anthem are doing so in an effort to demand equal treatment under the law for all people. Those who condemn them for taking a knee are demanding that their freedom of speech/expression be limited. I am perfectly fine with a person expressing a dissenting opinion, my problem is when the opinion that a person expresses is that my opinion should be forcefully silenced.

  • Oh now I understand why the killing continues because the jails are overcrowded and we can’t arrest anyone.

  • It was total incompetence on the part of the ATF and those that led it in 2010. Just like “Fast and Furious” another mindless strategy that went bad under Obama’s watch. Now that the issue is front and center I expect somethi8ng correct will be done.

  • Ron McPherson

    Um, no. It’s just that in this country we typically throw people in the slammer only when there exists at least some form of evidence for doing so.

  • Ron McPherson

    Uh huh. Wouldn’t it just save you a lot of time and space by just saying that there is literally nothing Obama could ever do to make you stop hating him and there is literally nothing Trump could ever do to make you stop exalting him

  • If you want a political history discussion about a few of Obama’s administration blunders this morning I am happy to oblige:

    Obamacare has roiled the healthcare system and our republican senators cannot even repeal it. It is like dog feces on a rug; a stinking and sticky mess.

    Iran is about to go nuclear like North Korea because of his Iranian Agreement while the Left twiddles their thumbs worrying about Global Warming.

    Two egregious debacles in the news for examples:

    Obama’s ATF approved the “Bump Stock” as an aid to the disabled in 2010. Who in their right mind would do that? The average citizen can understand that this was a horrible mistake but not the Department specifically tasked to regulate firearms. Typical Democrat leadership – no competence.

    His administration praised the traitor Bergdahl: “White House National Security Advisor Susan Rice defended attacks against him and the administration. She argued repeatedly that Bergdahl had served his country with “honor and distinction” and doubled down on the assertion when the truth about Bergdahl’s capture came to light. Then Obama in a personally welcomed him and his parents to the Rose Garden to show Obama’s compassionate side. “The administration quietly reached a deal to free the Guantanamo prisoners in exchange for Bergdahl in part to help fulfill President Barack Obama’s pledge to close the Guantanamo detention facility by the end of his time in office.” Self-serving madness that released five of the most vicious Taliban war criminals for nothing more than Obama’s obsession with Guantanamo.

    Fortunately he also destroyed the Democrat Party presiding over the largest decline in democrat governors, congressmen, senators and state legislators in the history of presidential administrations. The democrat party leadership is still split with between the Clinton faction and the Obama faction while the country laughs at this geriatric mess.
    Who leads your party?

    The Right doesn’t hate Obama; we hate what he did in office – a distinction the Left is incapable of understanding.

  • Ron McPherson

    I don’t have a “party”. You seem to live in an ‘us vs. them’ world. ‘Right vs left’, ‘GOP vs dems’, etc. I don’t. But it’s that binary view, ‘the world is out to get me’ mentality, the sky is falling, the end of the world is near because of a particular party or ‘side’ that seems so unhealthy to me, particularly for those who desire to bring God’s kingdom to this world. Neither the dems or GOP is this country’s hope, but rather God’s kingdom come, love for our neighbor. And if I feel Obama represented that better than Trump, so be it. I really don’t care if he is dem or GOP, left or right.

  • Ok. Let’s go to religion. Man cannot bring God’s kingdom to this world. If he could then we would not need Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins. But Jesus did and He has qualified to become the God of this world and replace Satan who currently holds that title. Remember Satan offered Jesus the whole world when he tempted him. That’s because it us still his for now and will be until Jesus returns to take the thrown, rule the world and destroy Satan and the fallen angels. Under Satan’s rule we have what you described as an us vs. them world. That is our reality today and it is definitely unhealthy.

  • Ron McPherson

    I’m not talking about “religion” either. Jesus didn’t come to institute another “religion.” Further, Jesus instructed us to pray: “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth…”
    In no uncertain terms, Jesus said the kingdom of God is at hand. This us vs them world leads to tribalism, a thing Jesus came to destroy. Jews vs Gentiles. Tribalism. You’re either in or out mentality. GOP vs dems. Right vs left.

  • Herm

    Football players learn, on the field of play, to foul (intentionally or accidentally) and then to accept the penalty. There are no laws, by constitutional intent, protecting our United States of America from injustice, that state precisely how our flag and anthem, publicly observed to demonstrate our national unity, must be respected, most especially, when we are not united in justice for all. There is a majority of good (productive and constructive) citizens from all traditions of community, race, creed, religion, gender, sexual attraction and age adding to our united efforts to establish all of us, of one mankind, as created equal, that we are each endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. There is an obvious minority of evil (destructive) citizens among all of the different groups of others, one from another, in the United States of America who are influentially unable to promote the values set forth in our Declaration of Independence.

    There are laws, rules,and regulations, established in the USA, with the intent of protecting our more (with room for improvement) perfect independence from inhumane tyranny invoked by law makers, law enforcers and vigilantes. Football players know that when an official, on the field of play, is not penalized for his/her foul with equal fervor, as is the player, then tyranny becomes the name of the game. The civil disobedience to the “expected” patriotic observance of our most coveted national symbols is in itself peacefully symbolic of the law makers, law enforcers and vigilantes of our nation who are destructive to independence and justice for all, and who then do not accept the penalty for violating certain unalienable Rights.

    Taking a knee is no greater a civil disobedience to traditional patriotic expectations than was the Boston Tea Party’s, December 16, 1773, disobedience to the prevailing rule of law in the name of equal justice for all.

    https://youtu.be/jBkgdGIBv00

  • Herm

    … he ran out of red hats because too many people are making America great again? He is in the habit of throwing red hats not simply handing them out gently.

  • Wow, tremendous. I honour your service, Ben. Thank you.

  • Daniel Fisher

    condemning those individuals who are condemning the athletes for taking a knee is demanding that their freedom of speech be limited. That is inescapable. We’re not talking about legally or forcefully limiting a person’s right to free speech, but recognizing that offensive speech may still cost you your job. CBS just fired a person for “freely expressing” her lack of sympathy for the Vegas victims since many were probably republicans. “free speech” doesn’t mean you don’t face private-sector consequences for your offensive speech. And people are freely expressing their first amendment rights by calling for such consequences.

    Now, if you sincerely object to this, then I’d be curious – are you as concerned that the Miami Dolphins fined and suspended a player for expressing his freedom of speech a few years back? The Dolphins demanded that Don Jones’ freedom of speech/expression be limited, and fined him, suspended him, and reportedly sent him to re-education program before he could return.

    The double standard, I’m afraid, is crystal clear. Use your “free speech” to freely express your distaste for homosexual behavior, be fined, suspended, and sent off for re-education, and no one objects that his “free speech” was infringed. Use your “free speech” to freely express your distaste to the national anthem, be hailed as a hero and have those who object labeled as unpatriotic adversaries of “free speech.”

  • Bones

    And the point is the incredible double standards eg the guy sacked by Google and the woman sacked for refusing to give out marriage licences to gay people.

    These people were made into right wing heroes.

    And I notice the president never said that Nazis should be sacked….unlike blacks. In fact Nazis were ‘good people’.

  • Ron McPherson

    It’s kinda like where multiple times I’ve been labeled as a hypocrite for, now get ready lol…calling out hypocrisy. I’ve been labeled judgmental for, now here comes another one…calling out judgmental attitudes.

  • Bones

    If Obama had’ve called for white people to be sacked there would be civil war.

  • Bones

    Yeah it’s like being called bigoted for calling out bigotry.

    “Hey man don’t diss me for killing Jews and gays. You’re a bigot”.

    People’s thinking has been completely screwed. Not unlike preww2.

  • Nick

    Hello again Mr. Shiloh,

    It doesn’t seem that hard to have a website full of kooks. The internet is full of them. I wish you the best in your endeavor.

    As Christians we need to be about the truth. The president isn’t draining the swamp. He has actually filled positions with very swampy characters. I for one wished he would fulfill his promise (I know, why do I get my hopes up with someone who consistently lies).

  • Nick, how do you square Kaepernick’s change of heart?
    All I will say about Trump’s cabinet is that those positions are filled with people who actually have the background, experience, drive and will to do the job they were given. If they don’t perform Trump will replace them unlike Obama.

  • Bones

    Tillerson got it right when he called Trump a f***ing moron.

  • Ron McPherson

    It has to be bad with Corker now calling him out too.

  • Larry TheKeyboardist Blake

    Agree or disagree with what Kaepernick and the other NFL players who took a knee the other day are protesting all you want to. But know that it IS, according to the Constitution, their right as Americans to protest, and I, as an American myself, support that right. I also appreciate that they protest nonviolently and do not encourage violence toward dissenters. I can’t say the same for other protesters I’ve seen before (I’m looking directly at you, Charlotesville supremacists).

  • Questioning

    LOL!

  • Questioning

    Sure…. then Dorothy and Toto will finally get back home. Trump and the Wizard of Oz have a lot in common, all crust and no filling.

  • And Antifa gets a pass?

  • Is Dorothy the new face of the Democrat Party?

  • Herm

    You’re right Bob, anti-fascists should not simply get a pass. They get an honorable mention for standing up to stop Charlottesville fascists by screaming this is equally our land Red, Black,Yellow, Brown, White, Muslim, Jewish, Hindi, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, Christian, heterosexual, asexual, homosexual, bi-sexual, intersexual, masculine, feminine, female, neuter, transgender and male without running the nationalist White Supremacists over or forcing them to clean up their act by providing gas shower stalls. You raise an inciting false equivalence that supports the exact opposite of in everything do all all others of humankind as you would have all others of humankind do to you. You support those who would rape our nation of the truths that we hold to be self-evident, that all men (which today constitutionally includes an even more perfect union of all women, men and children of mankind) are created equal, that they are all endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    You, Bob Shiloh, do not get a free pass to fan the furor in blind obedience to your fuhrer. There are many here, and throughout this United States of America, who know what happened when our nation entertained Nazism without full force opposition. between 1933 and 1935. We know what festers worldwide when we equivocate white nationalist supremacists as spiritually equal to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all.

  • $144948586

    So, yes, Antifa violence and property destruction–well before the horror of Charlottesville–gets a pass.

    Come on, Herm. You know that none of these “classes” of people were/are under threat by the larger (BY MAGNITUDES) group of rightists.*
    *Except of course the military which I don’t know what the impetus of Trump was except that he’s not a conservative.

  • $144948586

    “I, as an American myself, support that right.”
    Well I, as a human being who doesn’t need the state to define who I am, support that right.
    I also support the right of the owners who’d rather fire a player (ha, green is the only color that matters to them).
    I also support the right of the league (if it’s in their team contracts) to fire players or bar teams from playing.
    I also support the right of the consumer (which, as we can see by NFL rating, would rather not have their sports politicized) to turn off the TV.

    And I support all of these rights, because I am a human being who finds it oppressive to impose my values on another–unless, of course, they’ve granted me such provision in voluntary contract.

  • Herm

    Josh, are we speaking the same “antifa”?

    Antifa is a contraction of the word “anti-fascist”. Antifa may also refer to: Antifa movements, post-World War II movements opposing fascism. Individual Antifa or Anti-Fascist Action movements or their members, including: Antifa (United States), a movement of anti-fascist American activist groups.

    Are we speaking the same “white supremacists”?

    the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society.

    Are we speaking the same “fascism”?

    often capitalized :a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

    Are we speaking of the same Neo-Nazis who were parading as the “Charlotesville supremacists” who flaunted the swastika?

    Neo-Nazism borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, anti-Romanyism, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is the incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler.

    the larger (BY MAGNITUDES) group of rightists” was not what the anti-fascists (antifa) at Charlottesville were objecting to. How would you choose to object if you saw a growing group of separatists advocating the rape of your daughter or son?

  • $144948586

    “was not what the anti-fascists (antifa) at Charlottesville were objecting to.”
    Yes yes, “anti-fascists only became ‘a thing’ AFTER white supremacy (that relatively small faction) rose up.’

    “How would you choose to object if you saw a growing group of separatists advocating the rape of your daughter or son?”
    What a ridiculous question.
    Firstly, they’re not raping, lynching, tarring and feathering anyone…they were protesting (and, at the time, destroying less property and attacking fewer persons than leftists–even still, the property damage and even the casualties of both of these irresponsible movements heavily favors the left).
    The second reason that it is ridiculous is that I concede that rape is terrible, and I’d probably kill the perp due to rage. That being said, I can still understand that thievery and murder are wrong–I can still be outspoken against thieves and murderers just as I can about rapists.
    What you’ve done here is tacitly approved leftist violence while being OVERLY concerned with speaking out against white supremacy, which, by sheer number, is only a fraction of the number, explicit approval and violence on the left.

  • Herm

    Josh, the question posed to you was not asking, “how you would react to a perpetrator”, but to one calling for (advocating) the rape of your daughter or son? This is what the Antifa was doing.

  • $144948586

    Yes yes, the antifa, which existed before this white supremacy thing got it’s voice again. Yes yes, the antifa which is larger in number (with larger tacit approval) than this white supremacy thing. YET, before Richard Spencer was given a stage, antifa and the left were behaving violently in MUCH greater numbers than rightists AND EVEN supremacists.

    And yet you stay silent on it. You stay silent when Berkeley is trashed. You stay silent when a Jew’s presence has to force Berkeley to spend $600,000 to protect attendees of his speech. You stay silent when attendees of rallies treat women like this.
    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1695&bih=822&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Rachel+Casey+egged&oq=Rachel+Casey+egged&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i30k1.14466.15331.0.15536.6.6.0.0.0.0.93.459.6.6.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.457…0j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.0.imsU_ZgacLs#imgrc=FR_V-TPtoZZTnM:

    You gave a pass to the violence expressed on the left. And if you had raised up in opposition, perhaps Richard Spencer wouldn’t have the stage he has now.

    You see, I could say, in 2014, that the left’s (and the former President’s) tacit approval of irresponsibility among the left would lead to more violence. I could say that inviting BLM to the White House after a police officer is murdered in the name of that movement would appear to be minimizing anti-police violence. I could say that behaviors like this will lead to racist sentiments rising up once again, and yet this all of you in this forum stayed silent on it. And now that it has, I can denounce the right wing supremacy and racism, BUT I can’t ignore the fact that you failed to denounce the leftist violence that beget much of this today—and, yet, you still stay silent. And worse, you give tacit approval to it because now (and only now) did this stuff appear: it’s purpose was to stop supremacy violence.

  • Herm

    Josh, gravity sucks, friction slows my progress and being dependent upon food, water and air is oppressive.

    The law that frees us to be a healthy mankind is recognizing that in everything we do to all others of our species, throughout the entire world, as we would have all others do to us.

    The goal set forth in our Declaration of Independence for a more perfect union is to support and protect certain unalienable Rights for all mankind, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Traffic laws, imposed and enforced on us by government, are oppressive to all in the short term, but have served each a greater opportunity for continued life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the long run.

  • Herm
  • $144948586

    “Pelted? http://www.politico.com/sto…”
    Tacit approval; it’s a shame you wouldn’t denounce treatment of another person (let alone a woman) in this manner.

    “Killed! http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/
    https://www.nytimes.com/201…”
    Again, you ignore that leftist violence precedes Richard Spencer’s platform.

    “This is Antifa: https://www.jacobinmag.com/…”
    Oh come on, Herm. You know these folks are not the same as those college boys wearing V masks. This movement, and the people in it, probably had no idea of this organization. They certainly weren’t the same folks who trashed Berkeley over a peaceable assembly of speech–even if it’s for the hate-monger Milo or threatened Berkeley because of a Jew.

  • D.M.S.

    I know exactly what you mean…..
    Bizarro land is almost everywhere.

  • $144948586

    “Josh, gravity sucks, friction slows my progress and being dependent upon food, water and air is oppressive.”
    Conflation this perverse is a sin, Herm.
    Laws of nature are not susceptible to being “unjust” as they are not moral agents.

    “Traffic laws, imposed and enforced on us by government, are oppressive to all in the short term”
    No, they are just oppressive as these roads are (mostly) built by coerced taxes. If someone owns the roads, then users of that road voluntarily agree to said rules and thus it’s not oppressive to have traffic signs.

    “but have served each a greater opportunity for continued life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the long run.”
    They kill 30,000+ people a year in the U.S. alone, Herm. No private industry would be allowed such a standard.

    “The goal set forth in our Declaration of Independence for a more perfect union is to support and protect certain unalienable Rights for all mankind, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
    What did I say that denies this? I just never read this document and got to the line of “unalienable Rights for all mankind, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” and thought, “Oh, I’ve been so wrong.”–except of course in voting for Obama in 2008 and thus my elector denying the freedom of people to NOT buy a product they don’t want.

  • D.M.S.

    I couldn’t agree more.
    I’m all for loving my neighbor.
    That doesn’t mean I’m going to
    ‘ make love ‘ to my neighbor.
    That also doesn’t mean that my neighbor is allowed by GOD to make love to whoever he or she wants too make love too.
    What does God/Jesus consider to be love?

  • D.M.S.

    Would Hilary of been any better?
    Our choices for a president.
    Was either an ultra-conservative.
    Or.
    An ultra-liberal.
    Bernie would of been a better choice than her.
    BTW: Going back thru and looking for that list that you printed 3 weeks ago, on me.
    Is making for interesting reading looking for it, thanks.

  • Ron McPherson

    Why does everything always have to come back to sex with you, lol?

  • Herm

    I ask this question one last time directly, “How would you choose to object if you saw a growing group of separatists advocating the rape of your daughter or son”?

    This Milo? Milo Yiannopoulos is trying to convince colleges that hate speech is cool http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/us/milo-yiannopoulos-ivory-tower/index.html

    This hate speech: Hitler Makes First Call for Jews’ ‘Annihilation’ https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/this-day-in-jewish-history/.premium-1.571344

    This riot? If We Can’t Unite Against Rioting, We Can’t Unite at All http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444544/berkeley-riots-milo-yiannopoulos-california-mayor-lieutenant-governors-make-appalling

    or this riot? https://www.bostonteapartyship.com/boston-tea-party-facts

    or this riot? http://www.history.com/topics/american-revolution

    or this riot? http://www.history.com/topics/american-revolution

    How do you choose to stand up to destructive oppression of select genders, sexuality, racial heritage, helpless and hopeless regions of our national responsibility, faiths, and homeless due to war, social and economic scars inflicted by our nation’s governmental choices, at home and abroad? … passively, without protest?

    Black lives, considered in and of themselves, don’t matter to you, is that true? I ask because nothing in the BLM movement stated, or even implied, that any other lives don’t matter. How many innocent unarmed black lives were taken by armed police lives compared to how many innocent armed police lives were taken by black lives? How many Blacks were penalized for their crimes against police relative to how many police were penalized for their crimes against Blacks?

    You are talking to the wrong person, from the wrong era, if you expect sympathy because U.C. Berkeley was moderately trashed in rioting due to authorities allowing hate speech. I supported Kent State rioting against a war that I was, at the time, fighting in, contractually with honor.

    You ask for freedom of speech without equal and opposite opposition. Everyone of the protesters accepting the responsibility of Antifa knew what they stood for, right back to the ideology of the movement’s beginning.

    Today, I do not believe that war, or killing others of my species, is a viable solution to unite mankind as one in the image of God. Carrying one’s own cross makes much more sense in the end for the long term survival of humankind, but, all of mankind is individually capable of valuing so very much what they’ve been gifted to violently trash the money changers’ tables in deepest respect for those they are responsible to; like their species, their family (especially their children), their nation, and their Father in heaven.

  • Herm

    You, Josh, are deluded by protectionists focusing on themselves and their own before and above all others.

    Just tell me how merging all laws of God and Man is a transgression of in everything do to others as you would have others do to you.

    The traffic laws did not kill 30,000+ people a year. Transgression against those laws are responsible for the vast majority of those deaths and human imperfection for the remainder.

    All that you have said denies the “unalienable Rights for all mankind, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” of those who are not you and your own. The USA is the only first world nation/economy on this earth who does not unanimously consider education and healthcare for all citizens a right of their people. What is the motivation to patriotically pledge an allegiance to a nation that does not consider your life and potential as equal in value to all others of your nation governed of the people, by the people and for the people?

  • $144948586

    “I ask this question one last time directly, “How would you choose to object if you saw a growing group of separatists advocating the rape of your daughter or son”?”
    I already told you, Herm. I then made the case that this is not what antifa began with; they destroyed property and the leftist rhetoric incited egging women and murdering police officers before Richard Spencer took the stage.

    “This Milo?”
    Did Milo incite people at Berkeley to destroy property or throw eggs at women? We’re talking about speech, not actions of which you’ve obviously no objections to hitting a woman with eggs when she flips a bird at the crowd.

    “This riot? If We Can’t Unite Against Rioting, We Can’t Unite at All http://www.nationalreview.c…”
    Yes, this “violent left-wing protest”

    The right is no where near close to the stages of Hitler–they’re far from as violent as the leftists.
    To conflate here, you’re either hysterical or just, again, sinning.

    “or this riot? https://www.bostonteapartys
    or this riot? http://www.history.com/topi…”
    And to conflate our current political landscape with the oppressive government that led to the Boston Tea Party or Revolution is absolutely absurd. Not one of those classes you mentioned above are as oppressed as the citizens under these governments….for one, they’re hardly even oppressed by the government–besides the military, I know of no civil right which they don’t have.

    “passively, without protest?”
    You can passively protest.

    “I ask because nothing in the BLM movement stated, or even implied, that any other lives don’t matter.”
    Eh hem,
    “ATTACK EVERYTHING IN BLUE EXCEPT THE MAIL MAN”
    “sprinkle Pigs Blood”
    “F*** the police.”
    “Micah Johnson, the shooter, told a hostage negotiator that he was angry on behalf of Black Lives Matter and “wanted to kill white people, especially police officers.”

    “How many innocent unarmed black lives were taken by armed police lives compared to how many innocent armed police lives were taken by black lives? ”
    How many innocent black lives were taken by armed black persons?
    How many blacks were stopped by police under suspicion (or confirmation) of committing a crime? That’s not innocence.
    Why is it that 13% of the population has committed 36% of violent crimes in 2015 (the latest set I can find from the FBI table 43)?
    This isn’t to say that I don’t believe in prejudice; I do, but I don’t think that the statistics bear it out that it’s a systemic issue.

    “You are talking to the wrong person, from the wrong era, if you expect sympathy because U.C. Berkeley was moderately trashed in rioting due to authorities allowing hate speech.”
    What I find ridiculous is what you’re willing to approve of, and you stay silent except in the case of the right-wing supremacists. I can only fathom it’s because of the color of skin or because they are rightists. Either way, it’s prejudice.

    “I supported Kent State rioting against a war that I was, at the time, fighting in, contractually with honor.”
    Great, you support damaging other people (who, perhaps have nothing to do with it) for the sake of a movement. That’s called mob rule.

    “You ask for freedom of speech without equal and opposite opposition. ”
    HOW THE HELL DO I BAN FREE SPEECH HERE?
    No you don’t, Herm. You can’t take the moral high ground; you rob those of free speech when you say give de facto support to “if you say something I don’t like, I’ll break windows and threaten you…and throw object at women.”

    “Everyone of the protesters accepting the responsibility of Antifa knew what they stood for, right back to the ideology of the movement’s beginning.”
    No, they didn’t. They were taught to conflate right wing movements with Nazism–and this alt-right Richard Spencer platform came about after rounds of violent behavior on the left.

    “Today, I do not believe that war, or killing others of my species, is a viable solution to unite mankind as one in the image of God.”
    Me neither, and neither is the theft of another person’s rights through intimidation or destruction of their property.

    “all of mankind is individually capable of valuing so very much what they’ve been gifted to violently trash the money changers’ tables in deepest respect for those they are responsible to”
    You show me the systemic violence, and I might call them money changers. Otherwise, this is pathetic.

    “Carrying one’s own cross makes much more sense in the end for the long term survival of humankind”
    I wasn’t aware this meant to intimidate you’re fellow human beings.

  • $144948586

    “You, Josh, are deluded by protectionists focusing on themselves and their own before and above all others.”
    Stop with the ad hominem.

    “Transgression against those laws are responsible for the vast majority of those deaths and human imperfection for the remainder.”
    ….surrree–I’ll grant this to you if you grant to me that the lack of health insurance doesn’t kill people who develop a pre-existing condition. Not buying insurance before then does.

    “The USA is the only first world nation/economy on this earth who does not unanimously consider education and healthcare for all citizens a right of their people.”
    We’re not even talking about these, BUT, the USA which “is the only first world nation/economy on this earth who does not unanimously consider education and healthcare for all citizens a right of their people.” also has the best healthcare for all citizens. The education statement is just BS; public school has been mandatory for decades, almost a century, and most in US would have their kids enrolled at private institutions if they weren’t forced to subsidize a sub-par system.

  • D.M.S.

    Because a lot of people think that loving a person, means sexual.
    And that difference needs to be addressed, everytime.
    And there’s no lol about it.
    I’m not trying to be funny.
    I’m trying to follow my Savior Jesus and represent Him, in all aspects.

  • Herm

    You will not hear, you refuse to comprehend, you share what a few have said to falsely represent the many in every movement, and you clearly do not know what you are doing that is so destructive.

    The lack of health insurance does kill many, way too many, with any terminal health condition. You seem to have no ability to put yourself in the shoes of the uninsured. If you are that lacking in empathy to not understand preventive healthcare, the delay to see a physician because you don’t self-diagnose yourself ready for the emergency ward, having insurance but rejected for a preexisting condition, changing jobs and/or states with a preexisting condition, or when hospitals do reject caring for you because of no health insurance then there is nothing I can do for you to help us all; all prevalent conditions for 20 million USA citizen’s prior to the ACA. By the numbers, the USA does not have the best healthcare for all its citizens compared to all other nations.

    The reason for public schools is to provide consistent truth in education that develops the skills necessary to live healthy in and support all of the United States of America, in our case. We fail the inner city and rural areas much more than Russia, as only one comparable example, fails all their people to provide education for each citizen to reach their highest potential. If we allowed private schools to determine curriculum and standards we would have the wealthy reaching the highest potential and parochial schools producing faith above fact. I am sorry to have to break this to you but the cosmos is plus or minus 14 billion years old, gauged by the revolutions of our earth around our sun (not the sun revolving around our flat earth) even though we rely on faith to realize that life of awareness and influence really has no beginning and no end.

    You, Josh, are deluded by protectionists focusing on themselves and their own before and above all others” is not an ad hominem but is an effort to share, from my perspective, why you take the self centered position you argue. Okay, you forced me to share the really bad news, all of us of mankind are going to die within 120 years from our birth. There is some good news for those of us who care enough to live constructively beyond ourselves, mankind as a single species, one entity as God is depicted as one entity, has no designated time limited. Our most positive and constructive individual focus, according to Christ, is to the survival of mankind, not the self centered individual, by choosing to sacrifice for those of our species in greater need. We, mankind, are only as strong and healthy as our weakest individual.

    I have pretty much determined that I can be of no help to you because you insist that you don’t need any help to tell others how they best serve your needs. Good luck with that. I am done responding to your unempathetic, uncompassionate, unforgiving and intolerant fallacies, at least for today.

  • Daniel Fisher

    Agree or disagree with what Trump and the other conservatives who are protesting the NFL players taking a knee all you want to. But know that it IS, according to the Constitution, their right as Americans to protest, and I, as an American myself, support that right. I also appreciate that they protest nonviolently and do not encourage violence toward dissenters. I can’t say the same for other protesters I’ve seen before (I’m looking directly at you, Antifa).

    Well said!! (with just a few edits I made…)

  • Ron McPherson

    If Jesus didn’t see fit to clarify what love is when he uttered that statement, why do you? Reasonable people understand that the word love throughout the scriptures and when referring to God’s instructions does not equate to unrestrained sex. We are to love God and neighbor. God is love. Love is the distinguishing mark of genuine Christ followers. I’ve never heard to anyone who confused this word with sex. Certainly within the context of Jesus’ statements we understand this is not speaking to sexual activity.

  • D.M.S.

    Then you must be the most ignorant person on the planet then. I haven’t the faintest idea of the person I’m conversing with on the Internet. For all I know you actually could be a Jehovah witness. How would I know? So to make sure that there is NO confusion, I spell it out to each individual person.
    That’s why I usually put down
    God/Jesus. In this day and age it could be anyone’s god that they believe in.

  • Ron McPherson

    So you believe I “must be the most ignorant person on the planet” because I don’t feel the need to always qualify Jesus’ statements about love so that others won’t think he’s instead talking about unrestrained sex? This may come as a shock, but not everyone has sex on their brain all the time (including JWs lol). But if sex is always on your mind, or if you’re obsessed with sexually related sins, then you may feel everybody thinks like you do as well which may explain how most every conversation seems to end up there with you.

  • Larry TheKeyboardist Blake

    Thanks, but your edits were not necessary.

  • D.M.S.

    I try to bring to the table what I was made to believe was my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus and their sins against Him, only to find out later that none of you are Christians.
    And I’m still trying to figure out who
    F F- ers serve. It definitely isn’t our Lord Christ Jesus.
    Our Lord Christ Jesus is 100% against any kind of deviate sexual relationships ( lgbtqpnbh ) to name a few.
    Which no one on this forum can seem to grasp.
    Now my skin is starting to crawl from what you people believe, that you all think that our Lord Christ Jesus is fine with.
    You will all still be in my prayers.

  • D.M.S.

    The Christian community doesn’t go out and have deviate sexual ” pride ” parades.
    So they can flaunt their sexual sin(s) to the world.
    And the lgbtq community condemns everyone as s bigot if the Christian community doesn’t accept your deviations.

  • D.M.S.

    Jesus did see fit to tell us about love thru His Apostles.
    Or are you going to deny what scripture states that all of the Apostles were filled with the HolySpirit after Jesus Ascension.

  • D.M.S.

    You no more serve our Lord Christ Jesus than bones, or JD, or TSawesome, or Chari does.
    All of you teach a false doctrine.
    I’ll keep praying for all of you.

  • Ron McPherson

    Yeah if OT David were alive today you’d say he wasn’t of God either.

  • Daniel Fisher

    Edits were necessary merely to demonstrate that your own rationale and logic can validly be applied other ways. If you disagree with your own sentiments when they are applied to alternate nouns, I’d be interested to know exactly where and why.

    Put another way, I agree with your original statement. I’m just curious if you sincerely believe in that core constitutional right to protest, or if you believe it only when you are sympathetic toward the particular protest in question?

  • Ron McPherson

    You can’t stop thinking about this gay thing can you?

  • Ron McPherson

    What does the apostles’ filling of the Spirit have to do with you thinking people get confused over the difference between love vs a sex act?

  • Ron McPherson

    You just can’t help yourself can you?

  • $144948586

    “The lack of health insurance does kill many, way too many, with any terminal health condition.”
    After ACA was passed, life expectancy went down.
    It also forces people to buy a product.

    “I am done responding to your unempathetic, uncompassionate, unforgiving and intolerant fallacies, at least for today.”
    It’s unbelievable that you think I’m any of these things. If I were not these things, I wouldn’t waste my time telling you that you are promulgating it.
    I believe that private corporations wouldn’t build roads that kill 30,000 people a year. I believe that private healthcare (including getting rid of government-created monopolies such as the AMA or the D portion of FDA) would serve more people and bring down the costliness of healthcare.

    However, to conclude: in another conversation taking place simultaneously, you write: “How would you choose to object if you saw a growing group of separatists advocating the rape of your daughter or son?”
    While I don’t see Richard Spencer or Milo actually advocating this, are you saying that it’s appropriate to riot and shut down those who speak about things you disagree with? Thus it was appropriate for Antifa to try and shut down Ben Shapiro?

  • D.M.S.

    I serve our Lord Christ Jesus through the Christian scripture that He has provided for us to live by.
    I haven’t the faintest idea who you serve.
    You probably serve Satan. You’re just to blind to see it.

  • Ron McPherson

    It’s weird that you keep accusing me of serving Satan because I happen to keep my nose out of the private lives of gay people unlike you do; which means to you I’m somehow a false teacher and teach false doctrine (presumably because, hello, I don’t follow gay people around on blogs and tell them how sinful they are, like you do). Instead, I prefer to focus on Jesus’ greatest commandment with respect to my dealings with others since, you know, that’s how he said others would actually know if we’re genuine followers or not. Yet you think I’m the one who is blind and serving Satan. How totally weird is that? You’re so mired up into your brand of Christianity that you can’t conceive it looking any other way than the way you think.

    By the way, back several weeks ago you definitively declared on multiple occasions that I served Satan, so looks like you’re at least moving off that just a wee little bit. It’s went from a definite to a probably.

  • Herm

    Thus, it was appropriate for Antifa to try and shut down Hitler before WWII. Thus, is how we know for sure the majority of the people of the world should have listened, responded in support, and not passed their movement off as a violent equivalent. Today, after 50 to 80 million deaths, we know that the National Socialist German Workers’ Party wasn’t even a movement meant for the German worker’s health, education, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Today, we know for absolutely certain we don’t leave any people to fend for themselves, even when they are the deserving defeated foe as were the German people after WWI. Today, we know, have more than enough examples throughout history, that when we allow hate talk to germinate we elect spirits of hate like Hitler, Trump and McCarthy, to name only a few.

    You wrote, “After ACA was passed, life expectancy went down.
    It also forces people to buy a product.

    Is that all you have? Perhaps, you should check with the actual numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus16.pdf#014

    Then there are these official figures that show that the life expectancy is higher in all socialist democracies throughout the world than in the United States of America, all with substantially less natural resources to draw upon to feed, clothe, house, and medicate their people than does the USA: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus16.pdf#014

    You are being fed a whole bunch of patriotic propaganda by the capitalistic oligarchy that does not support the worker’s health, education, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness except when it benefits its profit picture. Check out the numbers from the UC Berkeley campus regarding life expectancy: http://u.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html. Pay close attention to the 1930’s, when the numbers went down, as that is the great America President Trump and Steve Bannon are focused on bringing us back to. You know, when we had oil barons, railroad barons, tobacco barons, sweatshops, the dust bowl, Nazism on the rise, lead paint, and the Great Depression.

    Life expectancy began its greatest rise, in the United States of America, when the New Deal began to be implemented under FDR. We, the good ole’ USA, did not become an affluent nation until the 1950’s with imposed 95% income taxes on the super independently wealthy (who still prospered), with Social Security, Medicare and regulations imposed on wall street, producers and supported labor unions.

    My bottom line, today, is to help others to realize that 1% of our nation sharing 75% of the natural resources, they did not earn by the sweat of their brow, is not the great America, as it is touted to be by the 1% and those who blindly serve it. The only reason we are allowed to be as educated today is that to profit in technology literate workers are necessary. You talk about the ACA forcing people to buy a product to insure their health, which insinuates that unregulated capitalism advertising their offer of all the guns you can buy to keep the government, and evil Mexican illegals, at bay is the more healthy way for our nation and its people. Why do we insist that the best healthcare and education, that serves as the resource pool to draw from for the profit of our entire nation’s economic welfare, be earned by those who need it most if they are ever to become the most productive and constructive? If we have learned anything in our nation governed by the people for the people we should be certain that all future resources need to be invested in before we need them to survive. We are educated and experienced enough, as mankind, to realize that the animal instinct to invest in our children, who are incapable of earning anything, to support the survival of our species can be applied to invest in all our people, as needed, that mankind, and our nations, might better survive.

    Josh, you wrote, “It’s unbelievable that you think I’m any of these things.” It is only unbelievable to you because you are not thinking and feeling outside you and yours. You are, at best, following the traditions of your family, church and nation to validate what you promulgate as you do today.

    I know, this may seem off topic, but this is the best biblical example of the redirection in feeling and thought necessary to be of value to life, human and divine, I have been introduced to by God:

    “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

    We can’t expect to start learning the truth of how to apply our awareness and influence until we begin to hate all the evolving traditional familial, national and religious allegiances that blinds us to what Matthew 7:12 and 22:37-40 are all about. All of the traditional familial, national and religious allegiances that we patriotically defend only serve each of those units individually and not the whole of Man and/or God. Your focus, by the arguments you proffer, defend profit of individuals at the cost of the whole. Healthcare and education for us, as one body of Man, cannot continue to be founded and regulated by individual profit motive to ever realize full utilization of our graced natural resources toward the growth and survival of Man.

    I stand by everything I have shared with you. I can only hope that you begin to see that I am not spouting traditional rhetoric in this attempt to encourage you to be more effective for mankind’s welfare. I do believe that it is appropriate to get emotionally and intellectually involved to shut down those who speak in direct opposition to in everything we do to all others as we would have all others of our species do to us. We have the freedom to speak as long as our speech does not destroy our people. We do support applied censor to all we deem hazardous to our health, not the least of which is pornography, falsely yelling fire in a theater, or teaching the overthrow of government. The First Amendment protects freedom of expression, not dangerous speech (Schenck v. United States).

  • Oh man. I love when Republicans claim MLK Jr would be on their side. Because a man who advocated for socialism, if not outright communism, fits in perfectly with Republican politics today.

  • As the second-largest job creator in US history, helmed years of consecutive economic growth — which ended under Trump.

    Drove the automobile industry to become more competitive with fuel efficiency standards — which Trump is trying to roll back.

    Received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009.

    Provided the means for tens of millions of people without insurance to receive healthcare — which Trump has been unable to replicate.

    Regulated big banks through the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act — which Trump undermined.

    Cut taxes for the lower and middle class — which Trump is trying to roll back in favor of tax cuts for the very wealthy.

    Eliminated bin Laden and withdrew soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan — hope they’ll enjoy being deployed again under Trump.

    Presided over a great expansion of civil rights to LGBT Americans — which Trump is trying to revoke.

    Reversed torture policies — which Trump is trying to re-enact.

    I’ve got more, but here’s the biggest one: he improved America’s relations with other countries. You have no bloody idea how popular Obama was worldwide, do you? He was an eloquent speaker who formed and was eager to join coalitions benefiting millions of international citizens, convening efforts to improve global matters through international cooperation.

    You know what Trump has done since then? Show everyone that no matter how promising a deal appears to be with America, they can never count on it lasting more than eight years before a Republican gets in office and proceeds to stab everyone in the back. Trump has shown that we cannot be trusted, that we will not honor our commitments.

    And that’s something he can never make up for.

  • Hillary was a left-leaning centrist. Trump is just pro-Trump.

    I don’t even know what the hell Bernie is anymore. He’s a man who’s okay with throwing people under the bus with the assumption that the sacrifice will be worth it as long as we get a more socialistic economic situation passed, even if, in doing so, he makes it less and less likely that such a thing could ever happen under his watch.

  • “Why are people concerned about terrorism when white folk kill each other all the time?”

    See how stupid that sounds?

  • That’s assuming they care about his morals at all. Strangely, there was this massive pivot around the time the recent presidential campaign…

    In 2011, 70 percent said they cared about public figures’ personal morality. Personal ethical behavior was connected, they believed, to faithfully fulfilling the duties of public office. In 2016, only 28 percent of evangelicals still thought this, while the majority of them told pollsters that public figures’ personal morality didn’t really matter.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/12/13/aaron-schock-once-turned-to-jesus-now-he-faces-federal-charges-of-political-corruption/?utm_term=.a313a339dc54

  • Nick

    Kaepernick didn’t have a change of heart. That was a fake news story that was almost immediately retracted. I had a freshman bring it in for his story on Monday.

    You were joking about the president’s cabinet, correct? I mean Betsy DeVos is a walking talking example of much of the problems facing politics today.

  • By the way, King would have demanded that Kaepernick be given a job, more likely than not in football. Believe it or not, King’s philosophies extended beyond the phrases “I have a dream” and “by the strength of his character.” He was a socialist with heavily communist-laden economic ideals.

  • “Pushed through”

    In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009.

    Feel free to compare this to the efforts to repeal it.

  • 2.2% of Australia’s population is Muslim — better watch out, they have you surrounded!

  • Thanks for the lengthy reply.

    I would like to respond point by point, but when I checked your first point it is incorrect.
    Reagan – 15.9 million; Clinton 22.9 million, Obama 11.3 million
    Obama monthly average jobs – 117,708. Trump 179,000.

    If you have better information I will look at it and proceed GDP – but you already know Trump GDP has outpaced Obamas.

  • Stupid is believing that Police are hunting black men.
    Stupid is believing that it’s ok for Chicago to 500+ murders so far this year.
    Stupid is believing that the mayor of Chicago cares about black people.

  • Yes, I, too, am appreciative of the opportunity to be raised to the standards of a man who considers no one, not even his own children, unworthy of sexualization and assault.

  • Enough with the moralizing. The NFL has changed its mind. It seems the owners realized that they don’t want to diminish their brand when it costs money.

    Can you list four of Obama’s greatest achievements?

  • Obamacare is a failure. Everyone knows it. It was a one-sided bill and that was the problem.

  • The same kind where Trump accuses the father of a fellow candidate of having been part of the assassination of JFK and this passes without remark because it’s just one more tidbit at the top of a large pile.

  • .. That’s forever going to make me laugh, since originally, that’s what people did. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9147d381021d79530506548380c96602dd8929194f929896fc2ce2b86f111db5.jpg

  • Herm

    … well, at least they didn’t take a knee.

  • Herm

    Thank you! … and this: http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/

  • Bones

    Yeah like Indonesia could have invaded us whenever they wanted….

    They’re just taking their time.

  • Bones

    It really is quite bizarre and scary how people ignore his blatant lies. And they’re damaging.

    He’s already warned Iran about a missile test which didn’t happen.

    He got it off Fox News who got it off Iranian Propaganda.

  • They keep normalizing this, and they shouldn’t. Other countries are doing it too — translators, tasked with rendering Trump’s meandering, nonsensical babble into something presidential, keep cleaning it up so that he won’t sound like someone took the manuscript to 1984 and fed it through a woodchipper, then assembled bits into sentences.

    And they shouldn’t, because that really is exactly what he sounds like.

    We need infrastructure in our country. This country has wasted $6trn in the Middle East. Wasted. Like taking it and throwing it right out that window. Right in to the Rose Garden. See that beautiful Rose Garden? Look at those very nicely dressed people. It’s religious liberty out there.

  • Bones

    There is a right to protest and there is a right to counter protest.

    That’s reality.

    Nazis and white supremacists aren’t going to be marching without some form of major opposition.

    Of course we only have one person saying Nazis are ‘good people’ while black footballers are ‘sons of bitches’ who should be sacked.

  • Bones

    So you support the rights of the government and employers to sack people if they’re anti-gay….ok then…..

  • Bones

    What a load of garbage…..

    Now someone is being oppressed by road signs ffs.

  • Bones

    Define shutting down. That’s right wing bs.

    Is this not just a counter protest? In other words the exercising of a contrary group’s rights to protest against another group. You’d have hated the 60s when anti-war protestors shut down ‘pro-war’ speakers (eg the DNC in Chicago in ’68) and white supremacists such as Klan rallies which attracted far more counter protestors than Klan members..

    Anyone remember the Hard Hat Riot

    And we’ve been through your private utopia before.

    We have regulations because business is about profit over people’s lives. Been that way forever since when they used to use little kiddies to do dangerous jobs. In fact Marxism, Socialism and Unionism is a reaction against corporate greed and inequality.

    Of course which company would build a road for nothing?

  • Bones

    You’d have hated the 60s or probably any era since……

    The US has a history of counterprotesting the Klan.

    Of course not all opponents of the Klan are antifa (who are a small group)….most are normal human beings who don’t believe in white racism.

  • Bones

    Rioting has been going on since the 60s….when people got pissed off with inequality, the Vietnam War. It’s hardly anything new.

    In fact what we’re seeing is child’s play compared to the 60s. It’s basically a bunch of clowns shouting at each other and fighting over garbage bins. The simple fact is white supremacist rallies have been attracting plenty of counter protestors since weeeeeeelll before Trump. Just that now they can play the victim. Before no one had time for their white supremacy rubbish.

    I mean you’d hate the Blues Brothers (how times have changed…..)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8

    It’s interesting that an anarchist supports police shooting of innocent black people.

    You really do have rules for one (eg gays, blacks) and rules for others (whites, conservatives,anti-gay)

    And last I heard Milo was reduced to trolling on Facebook to get attention since he got sacked from Breitbart for his pro-paedophilia remarks….

    Btw just on black on black violence, it’s because blacks live in poverty, which is how they’ve been set up in the Land of the Free.

    But people like you don’t want to know that.

    You just think blacks kill people because they’re black….which is a racist meme.

  • $144948586

    “Thus, it was appropriate for Antifa to try and shut down Hitler before WWII.”
    Herm, we weren’t talking about Hitler. I was asking is it appropriate to riot and shut down (or make dangerous, as the left has been incredibly destructive and violent over this last election), because of speech? After all, unlike Hitler, Milo nor Spencer held a beer hall pooch, now did they? So, is it still appropriate to shut down there speech? In addition, you never confirmed for me that they were “advocating rape and murder of my daughter or son”.
    What I also find curious about your use of Hitler, was WHY do you deem it appropriate that Hitler is able to win (or even participate in an election) after holding people hostage at gunpoint no less? To even make such a position available to a guy like that ASTOUNDS me.

    “Is that all you have?”
    That’s all i need, Herm. But no, it isn’t. We’re forced to pay for:
    roads that kill 30,000 people a year (even then the government is privatizing due to budget cuts),
    sub-par education that doesn’t compare to private schools or other countries (which face significant budget constraints,
    police and firefighter pensions (because the government failed to fund these liabilities),
    MILITARY (which holds the entire world hostage,
    social security (which is underfunded),
    medicaid/medicare (which are both underfunded and reimburse such low rates that many doctors refuse to accept such patients,
    a police force (which certain groups deem prejudice, systematically, despite the statistics),
    the AMA which creates a government monopoly on who can practice medicine,
    the FDA which protects Big Pharma and refused, for a long time, to let Bayer put “May lower the risk of heart attack”–something that has been long proven–on the bottle,
    and Obamacare, which utilizes crappy networks in the name of “affordability”, in which most American’s “affordable” plans have a 10k deductible.

    “they did not earn by the sweat of their brow”
    Who the hell do you think you are to be able to judge what these people did to amass their wealth?

    *The rest of you garbage*
    This is not what the conversation was; if you want to go here, we can. BUT you’ve gotta first answer my statement:
    Are you saying that it’s appropriate to riot and shut down those who speak about things you disagree with?

    “we know that the National Socialist German Workers’ Party wasn’t even a movement meant for the German worker’s health, education, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.”
    Yet these were the talking points of Hitler, who utilized the German education system to brainwash youths into become murderers, who worked and fed the youths so that they looks incredibly well-built, and who preached that the Jews and the bourgeois were the reason people didn’t have “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.” It’s interesting, because it’s similar to the talking points of Stalin and Castro–yet these citizens wanted to leave those nations, interesting.

    As well, I like how you utilize data that’s three years old. Here’s NPR:
    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/12/08/504667607/life-expectancy-in-u-s-drops-for-first-time-in-decades-report-finds

  • $144948586

    Good question:
    I support the right to invite, forbid, or kick out whomever I please from my house; after all, it’s my property.
    I support the right of an employer to sack his employees for whatever reason (s)he see’s fit; it’s (the business, and the job fulfilled by the employee, and the employee insofar as they voluntarily agreed in contract) his/her property. This doesn’t mean that I support treating others unfairly, and, to this end, I don’t have to give them my business, and I can write to my local newspaper or create a WordPress.

    I don’t support the right of government.

  • $144948586

    I do hope you meant to like my post; as well, I hope that we’re clear that I wasn’t the one who posited that road signs are oppressive.

  • Bones

    So the government in this case the president called for the sacking of black people. I notice that’s conveniently left out of your posts.

    And yeah that’s an interesting turnaround when it comes to businesses firing people because they are anti-gay.

    Lol at creating a blog.

    That’s what mlk should’ve done.

    Created a blog and write letters to newspapers.

  • $144948586

    “So the government in this case the president called for the sacking of black people. I notice that’s conveniently left out of your posts.”
    Who does?

    “And yeah that’s an interesting turnaround when it comes to businesses firing people because they are anti-gay.”
    Why would a free person who’s anti-gay have hired a gay person in the first place?

    “Created a blog and write letters to newspapers.”
    He did on Sundays, and he was well published–and he had a massive following and thus a voice that even the President could hear….so could the public.
    In addition, Jim Crow, which he was so opposed to, was a government response against free market phenomena that served blacks.

  • Thursday, October 12th, 2017: NFL 10 – Trump 21. The people have spoken…

  • Herm

    Josh,
    If we are talking about the Antifa movement we are talking about opposition to Hitler, Nazis and White Nationalist Supremacists. Hitler was democratically elected and governed on the same premise as their segregationist hate speech.

    You highlight, as unacceptably violent, people massing to stand up against those organized forces who would rape all our children of an equal chance (imperfect but set on a bumpy road for a more perfect union) to realize their greatest potential in this nation founded on certain unalienable Rights, endowed by their Creator, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    I am one who chooses to stay away from riot and vigilante fever but fully understand why people would mass together (circle their wagons) against any foe that deems they and theirs are disposable to the cause of me and mine. Do you truly believe that their untainted, all white, blue eyed, blond hair Christian children should be preserved above your mixed red blood children?
    Read what real violence is to the fabric of our nation: http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/164164615366/you-antifa-guys-are-actually-more-hateful-and
    All I have read from you makes it seem like you don’t want any government, at all. You would have no coordinated support of social investment, infrastructure, laws or regulations from any centralized government whether national, state or local community. You seem to deem all that oppressive to your self-rule. Instead of pointing out all the imperfections of our national and world systems that represent to whole of mankind attempting to govern itself, can you please begin to suggest actual ways that you believe would serve us to have a more perfect union?
    Just as an observation relative to your last paragraph, do you realize that we have private parochial schools, today, teaching their youths that there is no global warming, the cosmos was created in seven days gauged by the revolutions around our sun, that all other religions throughout the world are of the devil, and that all governments who don’t serve to coordinate and regulate exactly as the god they worship are to be destroyed by their youths as designated soldiers for almighty God/Allah? … Christian schools here and Muslim schools abroad. Why would we, as a united people serving all of our nation, support the same segregationist talking points as Stalin, Castro, Hitler, Bannon and Trump.

    Please, offer solutions, not heated criticism and false equivalencies. How would you do it differently if you were our benevolent dictator?

    Key findings

    Data from the National Vital Statistics System, Mortality

    Life expectancy for the U.S. population in 2015 was 78.8 years, a decrease of 0.1 year from 2014.

    The age-adjusted death rate increased from 724.6 deaths per 100,000 standard population in 2014 to 733.1 in 2015.

    The 10 leading causes of death in 2015 remained the same as in 2014. Age-adjusted death rates increased for eight leading causes and decreased for one.

    The infant mortality rate of 589.5 infant deaths per 100,000 live births in 2015 was not significantly different from the 2014 rate.

    The 10 leading causes of infant death in 2015 remained the same as in 2014, although two causes exchanged ranks.

    This report presents 2015 U.S. final mortality data on deaths and death rates by demographic and medical characteristics. These data provide information on mortality patterns among U.S. residents by variables such as sex, race and ethnicity, and cause of death. Life expectancy estimates, age-adjusted death rates by race and ethnicity and sex, 10 leading causes of death, and 10 leading causes of infant death were analyzed by comparing 2015 and 2014 final data (1).

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db267.htm

  • $144948586

    “If we are talking about the Antifa movement we are talking about opposition to Hitler, Nazis and White Nationalist Supremacists. ”
    You know damn well we’re not talking about those opposing Hitler; the original poster referred specifically: “I can’t say the same for other protesters I’ve seen before (I’m looking directly at you, Charlotesville supremacists).” To which Bob Shiloh responded: “And Antifa gets a pass”–specifically addressing those destroying property and violently attacking people who lean right (including women, which you shamefully blamed on her giving tacit approval).

    Yet you conflate Richard Spencer, Milo, and Ben Shapiro with those “people massing to stand up against those organized forces who would rape all our children of an equal chance.”

    Yet none of these have raised a coup; none of these has yet been the protagonist of first violence (perhaps with exception in Charlottesville).

    So I ASK YOU:
    Are these, who are only utilizing their free speech, deserving of having their events violently rioted destroying property and attacking attendees?

    “All I have read from you makes it seem like you don’t want any government, at all.”
    I’ll deal with this later if you’d like. Answer my question, finish this discussion, and we can move on.

    I’d also love to deal with this question, “Why would we, as a united people serving all of our nation, support the same segregationist talking points as Stalin, Castro, Hitler, Bannon and Trump.” But answer my question.

  • $144948586

    “most are normal human beings who don’t believe in white racism.”
    Well that’s bittersweet. I don’t support racism of any color, or class-ism of any.

  • Herm

    YES!!!

  • $144948586

    And that, Herm, is fascism.

  • Bones

    Then stop using racist arguments.

  • Bones

    Mlk had a blog?

    Well that’s news to me.

    Of course you want to ignore the civil rights protests because in your imaginary world they would come about through big business not protest.

    And yeah conservatives are in uproar over here because someone was sacked for posting anti-gay comments on their Facebook page.

    Yet surprisingly they support the president calling for black people to be sacked.

  • Bones

    The only Sataan around here is you.

  • Bones

    No. You are the sataan.

    You serve yourself.

  • $144948586

    Where on earth did I do that?

  • $144948586

    “Yet surprisingly they support the president calling for black people to be sacked.”
    Firstly, conservatives aren’t supporting the president to demand anything.
    Secondly, what’s wrong the President giving an opinion?

  • Herm

    That, Josh, is absolute bullshit:

    Fascism is a way of ruling that advocates total control of the people. … Fascism comes from the Latin fascio, meaning “bundle, or political group.” In fascism, the people are looked at as a bundle — one body that must be controlled by the government with absolute force.

    You asked, “Are these, who are only utilizing their free speech, deserving of having their events violently rioted destroying property and attacking attendees?“.

    I repeat, “The First Amendment protects freedom of expression, not dangerous speech (Schenck v. United States).”

    Richard Bertrand Spencer (born May 11, 1978) is an American white supremacist.[1] He is president of the National Policy Institute, a white supremacist think tank, as well as Washington Summit Publishers. Spencer has stated that he rejects the label of white supremacist, and prefers to describe himself as an identitarian.[2][3][4] He has advocated for a white homeland for a “dispossessed white race” and called for “peaceful ethnic cleansing” to halt the “deconstruction” of European culture.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer

    You’ve probably seen the footage: Milo Yiannopoulos crooning an off key version of “America the beautiful”, while, in the background, white nationalist leader Richard Spencer and sundry other preppy goons smirk and give the Hitler salute.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/11/bad-things-dont-vanish-when-you-look-away-dont-ignore-milo-yiannopoulos

    When I recently asked Yiannopoulos to name the Trump policies he favors, he replied with a very revealing answer. Trump supporters don’t care about the man’s policies, he said. “They want to burn everything down.” Suddenly Yiannopoulos’ Twitter handle, @Nero (followed by more than 200,000 Twitter users), made all the more sense.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/203888/donald-trumps-little-boy

    In 2012, Shapiro became editor-at-large of Breitbart News, a news and opinion website founded by Andrew Breitbart.[15] In March 2016, Shapiro resigned from his position as editor-at-large of Breitbart News following what he characterized as the website’s lack of support for reporter Michelle Fields in response to her alleged assault by Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump’s former campaign manager.[16][17]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro

    And that, Josh, is dangerous speech!

    Please, offer solutions, not heated criticism and false equivalencies. How would you do it differently if you were our benevolent dictator?

  • $144948586

    Oh I get it: It’s not fascism, because “you gotta have a state, you gotta have a state”. *Then proceeds to quote a court case that concludes:
    So, my speech is dangerous if you don’t like it so much that you attack people that listen to me? I got it; blame the victim–just like the woman who had eggs thrown at her.

    Since you’re not a Statesman, would you rather I say “That is coercion, that is oppression, that is suppression, that is intimidation, that is bullying, that is force, that is violence, that is browbeating, that is threatening?” Take your pick then. The only ones willing to throw stones (of course before Charlottesville, since, obviously, the Supremacy protests occurred well after leftist violence) were those of your mindset.

    “And that, Josh, is dangerous speech!”
    Shapiro is a Jew; interesting you find his speech dangerous…

    Freaking disgusting.

  • D.M.S.

    Only mankind thinks that everyone should be equal.
    Christian. scripture doesn’t.
    I live for God/Jesus.
    I don’t live for the evil of mankind.

  • Herm

    Please, offer solutions, not heated criticism and false equivalencies. How would you do it differently if you were our benevolent dictator?

  • Chari McCauley

    Don’t pray to your god for me; My Father and Lord take care of me, just fine.

  • Chari McCauley

    You got that right.

  • $144948586

    I wasn’t aware pointing out fascism is heated criticism or false equivalence. I wasn’t the one who supported the utilization of violence or government ruling (backed by the use of violence) to suppress speech.

    As for me, I’d be no dictator. I’d not accept the role of king (like Gideon). I’d merely suggest you free markets and make all things legal understanding that people have rights to their own property and person and allow people and communities to determine their systems of justice.

  • Herm

    I gave you the accepted definition of fascism, it is not standing up against destructive, divisive and dangerous speech, even when emotions run over in favor of unity and justice for all recognized as one mankind.

    What rights does any have to property that was there long before mankind and, at the rate and direction we are headed. will be there long after mankind ceases to be any longer aware or influential? Exactly for the growth and progress of which people does any have rights to the land of the United States of America? … the Red people, the Yellow people, the White people, the Black people, …?

    Why do you suggest I free markets and make all things legal? Do you not get it that greed exists within all markets which store all necessary goods to the survival of each of Man only to reach those who can guarantee to the seller the highest profit by the buyer? Do you not understand the cause of the Great Depression and the Great Recession?

    Which level of community should determine the system of justice; the individual, the family, the church, the city, the county, the nation, or the community all other life on earth knows as mankind? You literally would cut off your nose to spite your face. Do you not understand that the greatest among us is He who is capable of serving us?

    In the world you suggest, there are no commonly shared roads, utilities, and communication systems beyond each individual community’s governance. You just described the world of hunter gatherers constantly on the move subject to the whims of nature. You can”t hold on to property when the water, land and air are poisoned by unregulated use, resulting in dust bowl’s and Chernobyl’s. At least the constant warring between communities will not be on a nuclear level as that takes too big of a community to maintain. Industry, without large supporting and regulating communities, cannot produce weapons beyond spears, bows and arrows without poisoning the land and providing for the workers. You see, even fiefdoms are much smaller communities than what you dictate (suggest) I should do to free the people to own their own property, which none did until democracies/republics. You see, all is on loan to mankind until mankind dies, and mankind will die. Mankind is at best the steward, not the owner, of this land.

    In your mind, what determines your property and what protects your property from other larger and stronger communities from taking it, like the Russians, Spanish and Europeans did to the native Americans (North, Central, and South)?

    Your ignorance of your absolute dependence on the coordinated whole of mankind, as your ultimate carnal support, on this earth, is “freaking disgusting”. Your lack of awareness that is governing your graced (without merit) influence is right now serving to divide our species Man into the smallest pieces with each competing for property that each determines and justifies as their own by each their own system of justice.

    All carnal that I “own” is only what has been loaned to me in my name that I am responsible to. I did not earn it, nor do I deserve it, except to have been in the right place at the right time. I came into this world, by no choice of my own, with nothing to my name. When I leave this world the most I can possibly take with me, as mine, in my name, is my heart/soul/strength/mind spirit of empathy, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness for myself and others. Without my family, along with the support of the entire community of Man, investing their empathy, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness in me I would have nothing of lasting value today.

    I think what scares me the most about your insistence that all oppressing influences leave you alone to be responsible for your property, maybe, subject only to your community’s determination of justice, is that you would have nothing if left to your own gifted abilities at birth, and you don’t realize that it is those you determine are oppressive who made you what you are and gave you what you have. The first five years of your life (awareness and influence), the years you learned the most to be who you are, were the years you were completely incapable of providing the bare rudiments of survival for yourself. You are truly disgustingly impudent when you can’t value your good neighbor equally as much as you do yourself for what you have to savor.

    I am no more than a little infant child governed, served, clothed, sheltered, fed, taught and challenged by a divine benevolent dictator who has been known to destroy property being abused in our Father’s house. In His kingdom I own nothing, I am graced eternity.

  • D.M.S.

    You’re going to get my prayers anyway. All of you need them.

  • Bones

    Actually jesus did. So did Paul in his there is no Jew no Greek, straight nor gay…..

    In fact you have no idea what the kingdom of God is about.

    You actively oppose it.

    So you oppose Jesus.

    Why is that not a surprise

  • D.M.S.

    Women are not to have authority over men in church.

  • Bones

    Lol……

    You have no idea on what Jesus was about do you? The whole culture which Jesus rebelled against was patriarchal and included draconian rules about women very similar to ISIS and Saudi Arabia. The healing of the woman who had been bleeding for 12 years wasn’t a feel good miracle yarn.

    It was political polemic aimed squarely at the Jewish Torah which ostracised women.

    To be quite frank there are billions of women who have more sense than you.

  • Chari McCauley

    Our motto is “One Nation, Under God”; does your god create victims? Or, do the black ones deserve less of His love than white ones? People of color have given their blood and bodies to this country too.

    I served right beside them.

  • Chari McCauley

    Thank you, Lt, General Silveria. That’s the military I served under.

  • D.M.S.

    Get it through your very thick heads. Scripture states that women are NOT to have authority over Men in church. And have to do with the church. And the family. Only!
    In the corporate or business world yes. I have had many women for a boss many times in my life, most of the time they’re a lot better than men as a boss or superviser. There’s nothing wrong with a woman being an authority over men in the private sector, from my reading of scripture.

  • Chari McCauley

    Do you mean that we will look like the Romans? And, the church leaders who were in the Romans pocket? And, The Lord came along and threatened their coffers?

    Good thing when The Lord returns, He will not be in a form that can be crucified, or shot down.

  • Chari McCauley

    Why is it always about sex with you? Is that all you think about?

  • Chari McCauley

    No way, I didn’t even see that.

  • Chari McCauley

    This discussion has nothing to do with sex.

    Although we could talk about the amount of
    “Christian” men who think it’s okay to leave orphans behind.

  • Chari McCauley

    No, they will just rape a slave woman, probably leaving her with a child that will be treated like garbage; Or, the many Amerasian orphanages that have children that can never leave that orphanage, because they will be treated like garbage!

    The same way we treat our HOMELESS veterans, who need care.

  • Chari McCauley

    Yeah, King David had all kinds of…lovers. But, he loved and trusted Father. And, Father still loves him.

  • Ron McPherson

    Exactly

  • Chari McCauley

    You are so right. As long as those black players keep making money for the rich; they can keep their job…in entertainment. Just don’t try to live a normal life, like the rest of us.

  • Ron McPherson

    I finally just had to block him. I rarely have done that.

  • Chari McCauley

    But, we don’t protect the children we have. And, we want to have more children we won’t take care of.

  • Chari McCauley

    You invaded our space, we did not invade yours.

  • D.M.S.

    It’s about all of you at FF. You’re the ones that keep saying that homosexual sexual relations are fine with
    God/Jesus. Which they are NOT.
    All sexual relationships outside of the marriage covenant of one woman only married to one man only is a SIN.
    And an abomination unto God.
    Until all you people at FF acknowledge that homosexual sexual relationships are a Sin unto God/Jesus.
    I’ll keep harping at all of you to REPENT of your Sins.

  • Chari McCauley

    Divided we fall. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.

  • Chari McCauley

    Yes, Mam! And, Amen.

  • Chari McCauley

    Why? There’s black blood in those red stripes, too. Father made black folks, too. Why are we trying to distract from the original reason?

  • Chari McCauley

    Yes, Sir. All enemies both foreign, and domestic.

  • Chari McCauley

    Unfortunately, there ARE people who join, just because they want to kill people. There was also a time when they gave criminals a choice, jail or military. Not everyone joined for the defense or protection of anyone.

  • otrotierra

    A sniper attack would likely be the first thing Jesus would be subjected to if he ever came to the U.S. A dark-skinned Middle Eastern refugee with no English skills and no birth certificate, accompanied by 12 dark-skinned pals. Shot and immediately detained. If alive, off to Guantanamo, America’s favorite concentration camp.

  • D.M.S.

    The Christian community in America rapes slave women?
    I don’t know what kind of Christians that you know. But all the Christians that I read about tries to live to serve Christ Jesus.

  • D.M.S.

    All of the lost such as yourselves, need prayer.
    So you’re getting prayed for whether you like it or not.
    Jesus loves you….

  • Chari McCauley

    Fortunately, they will not succeed.

  • Chari McCauley

    Thank goodness you won’t be a judge, So, explain why King David is with Father now.

  • Chari McCauley

    That’s what they want the black football players to be; quiet little money making puppets.

  • otrotierra

    Oh, but they do succeed. “…just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it to me.”

  • Chari McCauley

    I agree; but, spit on is better than many alternatives. Can’t forget that some of our vets are left homeless with their PTSD.

  • Chari McCauley

    Yeah, like hitting a brick wall. I really don’t want to know the god that would create victims.

  • Herm

    Thank you Chari. Please, understand that I personally feel blessed with all that has happened in my life, with no sense of bitterness toward those who know not what they do. If there is one common post traumatic stress that none who served can shake it is the grief we each must carry in respect for those we fought beside who did not get the opportunities we have had since. The most serious wound that can never be closed, in honor of all who reacted and react instinctively on the field together in esprit de corps, is the invisible and insatiable grief we carry for those we knew to care for as our self who lost all opportunity to reflect, grow and savor … opportunities with which each of us who survive are blessed.

  • Ron McPherson

    He can’t deal with anyone challenging his views. If you appeal from a rational standpoint he says you’re of the world. If you appeal from a biblical standpoint he says you’re twisting scripture. If you appeal from the position of revealing his theological inconsistencies, he says you’re of Satan. If you appeal from a position that love prevails in all things, he thinks you’re talking about unbridled sexual sins. If you stress that we’re not to be judgmental, he thinks you don’t care about sin at all. If you appeal from positions derived from professional experts, he says that they have been paid to lie. If you appeal from the words of Jesus, he goes back to Moses. If you then use the words of Moses against him though, he says the NT is in force instead. When you challenge his interpretation of scripture, he says you’re not a true Christian. When you playback his own cruel words to him in the hopes that the light bulb will somehow click on for him, he instead actually praises Jesus that he indeed said them. His views are profoundly disturbing from both a Christian and non-Christian perspective. I conversed with him for far too long though.

  • Many people have served and bled. That is why this protest is horribly unfortunate. They picked the wrong time and place. But, remember, anytime someone disagrees with the Left they are labeled Racist ( do the black ones deserve less of His love than white ones?). We are on the Right are numb to this silliness. Notice that the NFL tried to be politically correct but now that their pocketbook is being impacted not so much.

  • Bones

    Get it through YOUR thick head. Paul wasn’t writing a rule for the entire church.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    I’ve sat through women’s sermons and read theology books written by women and they were every bit as inspiring as the blokes.

    In fact if we had more women leaders, you wouldn’t have such an abundance of paedophiles in church leadership.

    How weird that someone thinks first century patriarchal culture still applies.

  • D.M.S.

    Get it thru your THICK head.
    YES Paul was talking to the entire church.

  • Bones

    Get it through YOUR thick head.
    No, he wasn’t.
    It is instructions to the Corinthian Church
    1 Corinthians 14
    “34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?”
    According to Paul women aren’t to sing, preach, ask questions, read out loud……..
    Just sit and shut the f*** up and listen to men.
    And notice how Paul justifies it using the Law ie the synagogue.
    Or 1 Corinthians 11
    “2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that [a]Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 4 Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover [d]her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9 for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. 10 Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.”
    Paul didn’t like women with short hair nor men with long hair ie Jesus…..

    It’s also pretty poor theology saying women aren’t in the image of God.

    Because God has a willy…..

  • Bones

    Btw why does the writer of Titus think Cretans “are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true.”?

    The idea that Paul or the biblical writers’ opinions are divine mandates is flat out stupidity.

  • Bones

    You obviously don’t get what the players’ protest was about.

    They achieved what they wanted which was a protest against the president creating an issue to raise attention amongst racists in Alabama.

    Is trump the people?

    Donald Trump’s Puerto Rico response causes approval rating to sink lower than George W Bush’s after Katrina
    Just 36 per cent of responders to Quinnipac University survey said President has done enough to support island nation devastated by Hurricane Maria

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-puerto-rico-response-support-sinks-hurricane-maria-relief-effort-aid-quinnipac-a7997971.html

    Apparently not….

  • Bones

    Firstly conservatives are all on Trump’s side on this…because black men…..

    Secondly….you’re kidding….the anarchist supports the president calling for the sacking of black men….why am I not surprised by the massive hypocrite.

  • Bones

    Your meme of violent blacks,,,,,,,

  • Bones

    How the world has changed…..

    What was just common sense opposition to racism and evil is now antifa…..

    This was how fascism and Nazism was perceived once…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8

  • Bones

    Very touching but your prayers are meaningless….

    Especially when you’re such a d**k.

  • Bones

    Nope…..

    Physician heal thyself!

  • Chari McCauley

    So, as long as the black players “Know their place”; keep entertaining us; everything will be fine?

  • Chari McCauley

    I so respect you, Herm. You are one of the awesome ones. I just can’t get around the mean, arrogant, apathy; especially from those who “claim” they “love” The Lord. It’s defintately not you I speak of. Your love is apparent. Thanks for being, here.

    And, Ron, and Dr Corey, and Bones, and so many really smart, wise people, here. I need a whole comment to list all of you.

  • Chari McCauley

    When you repent from your pride.

  • D.M.S.

    Scripture tells us that we’re suppose to let our fellow Christians know that they’re sinning and they may not know that they’re sinning. Because we Christians want to serve our Lord Christ Jesus honorably.
    All of you are more than welcome to defy me all that you want.
    But what I don’t understand,
    is why all of you want to defy
    God/Jesus?

  • Chari McCauley

    Why do you defy correction?

    Do you even have a job? Or, do you use company assets to post?

  • Herm

    Thank you!

  • Chari McCauley

    Yes, they thought they killed Him; but, surprise, surprise, surprise; they did not kill Him. Only the flesh He gave to them. Sorry, I used to watch Gomer Pyle, couldn’t help myself.

    BTW, the list gets longer; you are one of awesome folks. Haven’t seen Snooter, lately.

    This is a better community than I actually live in, thanks guys and girls!

  • otrotierra

    You’re right, we haven’t seen Snooterpoot in quite a long time!

  • JD

    So god/Jesus is not only a homophobe but is also a racist bigot as well.

    That is one sad and pathetic deity you worship there.

  • D.M.S.
  • JD

    That explains why you’re a homophobic racist bigot.

  • D.M.S.

    Call me whatever you like, it rolls right off into nowhere.

  • Bones

    Yeah ISIS say the same.

    Extremists can’t see that they are wrong.

    They’re too wrapped up in their own world of delusions.

  • Chari McCauley

    Has anyone seen Snooterpoot?
    Maybe a different thread.

  • JD

    So does you calling folks wolves, sinners and atheists. All it does is make you look even more unintelligent.

  • Herm

    You say that as if “The people have spoken…” is clearly a good thing …

    “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

    They all answered, “Crucify him!”

    “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

    But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

    Matthew 27:22-23 (NIV2011)

    Beware of the enemies, the one’s who know not what they do as they crucify others in the name of God, who do not know to accept God with and in them, and they in God. By your fruit we know from which vine you hang. You carry no cross for us while we carry ours for you.

    But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

    Matthew 27:20 (NIV2011)

  • D.M.S.

    I’m a sinner.
    You’re a sinner.
    And Ron’s a sinner.
    We are ALL sinners.

  • JD

    I don’t subscribe to your mythology nor its concept of ‘sinner’.

  • D.M.S.

    It doesn’t matter if you do or you don’t.
    As far as every Christian in Christ Jesus is concerned everyone is a sinner.

  • JD

    What you fail to comprehend is that this concept only appliesto those who believe in your mythology l.Whether you believe everybody’s a sinner or not doesn’t matter to anybody that doesn’t believe in your mythology. For them it just doesn’t apply thus has no bearing on their life.

  • Bones

    Apparently this green beret agrees with Ben….

    Maybe trolls will accuse him of being a fake veteran.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbSVn4zw13U

    Amazing what happens when you actually seek to listen to people.

  • bolshevik

    You don’t get to use technical terms idiosyncraticly, you mong. Try again

  • $144948586

    Excuse me; I assumed it was implied that I’m talking about “that [paradigm]”. I wouldn’t exactly call that “technical” terminology nor that all technical terms are unavailable for use on the individual level.

    But, I’m glad that you don’t disagree that Herm is expressing fascism.

  • $144948586

    “Firstly conservatives are all on Trump’s side on this…because black men…..”
    I don’t see conservatives saying this anywhere. Regardless, I there’s no “presidential decree”.

    “the anarchist supports the president calling for the sacking of black men.”
    I won’t apologize for recognizing Donald J Trump as a human being with, you know, human emotions. He’s allowed to have an opinion.
    I did not see any governmental dictates that NFL the organization or team owners must fire their players.

    If you want to conflate, then that’s fine. You and Otro can be childish all you want–and wrong.

  • $144948586

    I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

  • Bones

    Oh dear, the anarchist supports the president calling for the sacking of black men while calling nazis ‘good people’.

    Your libertarianism is complete and utter bs.

    You’d be in hysterics if Obama said that about anti-gay Christians.

  • $144948586

    “Oh dear, the anarchist supports the president calling for the sacking of black men while calling nazis ‘good people’.”
    Yes yes yes, I supported the President’s right to have an opinino; how horrible. Though I never heard him say anything about firing black people.

    “Your libertarianism is complete and utter bs.”
    I find it ironic that you call me libertarian because I refuse to not allow him to express his opinions.

    “You’d be in hysterics if Obama said that about anti-gay Christians.”
    Said what?

  • Bones

    Of course you don’t. To you, blacks are naturally violent.

    That’s why you use racist memes such as blacks kill more blacks than cops do.

    Like that’s the argument.

  • Bones

    Lol.

    This is the president, the most powerful person in the land being supported by an anarchist to sack black people.

    You’d be screaming like a stuck pig if Obama had’ve said sack Christians who don’t support gay marriage.

  • $144948586

    “You’d be screaming like a stuck pig if Obama had’ve said sack Christians who don’t support gay marriage.”
    Wait what? Why would I do such a thing? We don’t live in a “gay America”. We live in America; I support their right to kneel; I support the right to fire them for kneeling (if one wants); I also support a persons right to not support gay marriage; I also support a person’s right to fire them for not support gay marriage.

    The problem here is that the government has put Christians on trial for not supporting gay marriage. They’ve not done anything against those who’ve knelt. The former is thoroughly anti-American.

    “This is the president, the most powerful person in the land being supported by an anarchist to sack black people.”
    Bones, you know you’re being dishonest. Do you really want to go to hell for this? The conflation is obvious–you don’t like me supporting a human beings right to have an opinion; Yet, because he’s the President (not utilizing government to coerce behavior), you want to conflate this with me (a libertarian and anarchist) supporting government intrusion. It’s pathetic; I’m only affirming the right to expression–to speech.

    “the most powerful person in the land”
    For the record, Janet Yellen is the most powerful person in the land.

  • D.M.S.

    So scripture is a lie.
    That’s kind of strange talk coming from a devout Christian.

  • Bones

    Are you capable of independent thought?

    Crete of course is an island off Greece. The writer of Titus is quoting Epimenides of Knossos who proposed that Zeus was immortal.

    They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
    The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
    But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
    For in thee we live and move and have our being.

    — Epimenides, Cretica (600BCE)

    It’s also a paradox because a Cretan is saying that all Cretans are liars…..therefore he is lying.

    Ironically the lie of the Cretans was that they rejected the immortality of Zeus.

    It’s a bit like a Yank saying all Yanks are retards.

  • Herm

    Chris, though I know that Mark Bradshaw’s passionate fundamental premises are wrong, and I could be impressed to discuss the negative impact he has in his “my biblical interpretations are right and those disagreeing are wrong” arguments, it is not mine to ever sit in judgment of him for others, beyond suggesting wariness.

    He is to be respected in that he certainly is not of the church in Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22). He is to be feared because he preaches with Pharisaical and scribe like authority in delivering scriptural interpretation, rather than relying solely on what the Holy Spirit tells him to say before the cyber courts he is addressing (Luke 12:11-12). Beyond that, I sense that his fruit is tastier and more fragrant, though no less poisonous, than that of, only mentioned as a commonly known example, Franklin Graham.

    I, myself, would avoid seeking Mark Bradshaw out to combat his presently destructive nature, which seems due to his, and his traditionally judgmental supporting community’s, self imposed blinders. Should he come here, I do respect that he has shown signs of learning while entrenched within a thread. Our heart to heart, mind to mind, discussions could potentially serve for each of us to learn, as well as those who listen in.

    If you wish to engage him I most highly suggest inviting the Spirit of truth to lead out while directing what you will say.

    As a child of God I am not God’s puppet or design, anymore than any child of Man is Man’s puppet or design (an interpretation of God’s love that Mark has that I would be glad to engage him on). I am a child with all love for my Father’s will and my Lord’s authority. I am ignorant and weak, as are all infant children dependent upon their family’s love and nurture to live. I learn from my childish mistakes at play (in counsel with my Teacher) and get stronger from the scars and torn muscles I gain by trying to do more than I can bear in play with my siblings of Man and God. I am not the Rabbi, Teacher, or Father. I represent the Family of God as Their adorable infant child. I am incapable of instructing, teaching, presenting my will, or judging as perfectly as the infinitely more experienced adults in my divine Family in the Spirit.

    Love you and thank you for your support!

  • Herm

    Chris, the Holy Spirit is spirit. Seek, knock and ask with the spirit graced you as the image of God spoken of as the image of God. Listen with your heart and mind which is spirit. To begin with it really does take getting off in a wilderness where you are alone. You can speak with your mouth, though later you’ll realize continual prayer.

    Chris, if you do not recognize the Spirit of truth responding to you, as you sincerely speak to Him, our Father in Heaven, and/or Jesus, it is only because your spirit, which is you (heart, soul, strength, mind) is an infant just learning how to communicate. At first it begins with the faith that if you keep exercising your spirit, which you sense but have yet to coordinate, you will grow in spiritual skills, as is all of God.

    Work at it and, please, do not concern yourself with universalism, or any other theory in the study of God. There truly is only one Teacher which you are now attempting to enroll in preschool, where the best you can picture your family of God as stick figures. As your spirit skills grow in strength the family body of God will develop into a fullness of spirit dimensions. I hope this makes some sense. It is, today at least, the best I that can explain the reality of spirit in physical terms.

    Don’t allow me or any other to get between you and God. Any grace I have is from God, not my doing, though it is my accepting what I cannot earn. I am a child trying to share with all those around me the reality of God.

    Autism will not stop you from being able to communicate with God, only Man.

    Love you! Just take one little infant step at a time, there’s an entire eternity ahead in the Spirit to get it all right.

  • Chari McCauley

    There are tears in my heart EVERY day. The tears live in all my prayers, too.
    I do think that Father, and His Son are much wiser than we think. So much of what They ask of us must be voluntary, not forced. You can’t force people to love,it’s never sincere.

  • Chari McCauley

    Tears in my heart. We, who care, must stand beside them. Their lives are important to their Father, Who is in Heaven. I have many friends, thanks to my service, who are very important to me.

  • Chari McCauley

    Plus, there’s a phrase in there about defending against enemies both foreign AND domestic.

  • Chari McCauley

    For starters, I mean, and that’s not all.

  • Chari McCauley

    They literally make us into objects, and we are only useful if we fall in line with what they think. Once vets start to make trouble they just turn their backs on them. That’s why all these people frothing at the mouth about how “kneeling disrespects our troops!” don’t seem to care about veteran homelessness, or the bad care they receive at the VA, or how many veterans have a hard time transitioning from active duty back into the civilian world. And they certainly don’t want to hear about…

    This subject being one among many where this can be applied;

    Does anybody else think that …maybe…”God” (One Nation, Under God) is calling our bluff? I keep going back to the sixth trumpet, in Rev, where loud voices will bring about dividing those who are on God’s side, and who is not.

    All that is hidden in darkness will be brought into the light; Trump most certainly did that. He is “The Face”, the reflection of all the things that used to be kept under the rugs; behind closed doors; kept in closets, or kept secret.

  • Brandon Roberts

    the veterans didn’t fight for the flag they fought for freedom

  • Bones

    Hasn’t the flag changed over the centuries?

  • Brandon Roberts

    pretty much yeah, and the flag has very little to do with anything else in america

  • Rathje

    I find it interesting how all of Trump’s supporters are more interested in talking about CLINTON than they are about talking about Trump.

    Can’t say I blame them. I’d be secretly embarrassed too if I were them.

  • Justice delayed is justice denied. Hillary needs to be held accountable.