Today’s Act of Lying Desperation in Defense of Torture

Today’s Act of Lying Desperation in Defense of Torture December 15, 2014

Cowardly draft dodger defends anal rape.  He uses two lies to do this.  One is the vague suggestion that it was medical care because it was done in response to a hunger strike (you know, like refusing to treat bullet wounds, neglecting injuries until a prisoner lost an eye, and freezing prisoners to death was medical care).  The other lie is the claim that since no death or permanent injury resulted from anal rape, it was not torture.  This beloved argument of torture defenders is also a first class argument for all forms of rape.  “Prolifers for Rape”.  Catchy.  Enjoy your bedfellow, Catholic Torture Defender.

The Narrative of Torture Defending Lies and Sophistries in the media and in my comboxes seems to be clustering around “We didn’t torture and besides they deserved it, except for the ones who were innocent whose deaths don’t matter because War is Hell.  Also, the ends justify the means because it worked because we GOP spokesmen and CIA agents who refused to cooperate with the investigation and who have been lying through our teeth say so, without evidence.  And besides, pro-aborts issued this report, so it’s false despite its copious documentation.  Lots of countries use way worse torture than we do, so our tortures are fine.  Torture is sooooo impossible to define.  Lots more people commit the mortal sin of abortion, so my few beloved mortal sins (including threats to murder children) are perfectly fine and I will use unborn children as human shields to defend them.  Torture opponents are not Real Men like like damp-handed doughy coward Karl Rove and five time draft dodger Dick Cheney. And Shea is fat and obnoxious and nobody likes him anymore and he is no longer welcome at the Cool Kids table.  Everybody is saying so.  So shut up.”

That the “prolife faithful” Catholic torture defender should come to this.  Why die on this hill for *this* cause?  All that’s left you is naked, easily documented lies, consquentialism and the genetic fallacy.  Repent and receive the mercy of God.  It is hard for you to kick against the goads.

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  • Isn’t old crow Cheney one of the most vile and despicable excuses for a human being ever to set foot in the White House? He’s a vulture and a war-profiteer whose effigy should be lit afire in the streets every day he still walks around a free man. See some art and words defining his role in architecting a Society of Fear at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2010/04/inside-job.html

    • antigon

      plus his daughter’s a pansy (no, no, not the lesbian one).

  • Clare Krishan
  • Peggy

    Rove has been despicable for a long time now. I don’t know how he or Cheney defend some of the items in the report with a straight face. I don’t believe all that the report says, however. I also don’t buy into the Dems’ fake outrage when they knew and approved from the earliest days.

    I have never defended torture. I have no problem with the captive terrorists experience some mild discomfort or anxiety.

    • Joseph

      We are the terrorists because we invaded their countries.
      As for KSM and others who admitted, under torture, that they did this and that against us, I have a sinking feeling that they are innocent patsies who have been framed and tortured until they admitted whatever we wanted them to admit. I would start believing that KSM is a real terrorist if we put him on trial and proved in court, with real evidence, that he is a terrorist.
      Our failure to put him on trial, more than 13 years after the 9/11 attacks, speaks volumes to me.
      Also, sorry, but waterboarding him until he admits that he is a terrorist is not real evidence and doesn’t prove that he is a real terrorist. We have seen this kind of “evidence” before, when the Bolsheviks tortured Cardinal Mindszenty until he admitted that he was a Western spy and Vatican agent.

      • Peggy

        Is there some basis for thinking KSM is not a terrorist? I haven’t read any independent or liberal report suggesting such. I didn’t think that was the point of the abuse he faced. They knew he was a terrorist; I thought the question was what was his part in and what did he know about 9.11.

        Wow. While we need not think of the US as God’s Kingdom on Earth or above evil, I think your words about the US being “terrorists” is a bit of a stretch.

        There were many a misguided effort in the “war on terrorism.” We should remain on alert still, but we need not battle with countries. We need to eradicate the terrorists themselves.

        • Joseph

          Terrorists are those who kill, maim, and terrorize non-combatant civilian populations. That’s EXACTLY how we have been conducting our unjust wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, our bombing and drone killing campaigns in Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia. It would have been bad enough if we unjustly attacked their troops and military installations only, but we went even further than that, attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure. We had been doing this even before 9/11, e.g. when we reduced Serbia’s civilian infrastructure to rubble with our bombing campaign in 1999, and killed busloads of civilians reducing whole autobuses to burned-out carcasses with charred bodies inside. This is why I said that we are the terrorists, because we routinely wage unjust wars invading other countries and more, we routinely kill, maim, and terrorize non-combatant, civilian populations abroad.
          A Gallup poll of 65 countries found recently that the international community regards the USA as the single biggest threat to world peace, far ahead of Iran, North Korea, far ahead of any other country. It is because of our addiction to unjust wars, invasions, bombing campaigns, and drone assassinations in foreign lands.

          • Marthe Lépine

            I agree with you, unfortunately. And you did not even mention the assumption that the US has to approve even of democratically elected leaders of other countries, and if not they will use everything they can to get rid of those leaders and/or undermine their governments, like they did in Chile (as it was clearly shown that Pinochet was a far greater leader than Allende!), for example, and tried for a long time in Venezuela.

            • Joseph

              Yes indeed. I had a Greek colleague who casually mentioned to me that Greek people are anti-American. I was very naive at the time and I was shocked, although I knew something about the assassination of their leader in 1967. Later on I learned that the CIA assassinated not one, but two Greek leaders, and installed a nasty murderous dictator who was eventually overthrown by popular anger in 1973. But this episode certainly didn’t help the Greek and American friendship.
              Apparently, the USA routinely commits political assassinations and coups all over the world, from Guatemala to Iran, from the Czeh Republic to Ukraine, from Venezuela to Indonesia.
              The genocidal dictator Suharto, who killed more Indonesians than Pol Pot did in Cambodia, was installed and supported by the USA. But we never hear about his crimes, because he was a US ally.
              The Czeh government was overthrown last year (2013) in a CIA-engineered coup, and now the CIA is busy demonizing and trying to overthrow the Hungarian government. Both governments committed the sin that they planned or concluded business deals with Russia, for expanding their nuclear power infrastructure and for building pipelines for natural gas going from Russia into the EU.

            • Joseph

              I’ve also heard that there were close to 20 assassination attempts against General De Gaulle in France. The USA didn’t want an independent leader in France.

    • PW

      How do you know they’re “captive terrorists”? That has NEVER been proven in a court of law – it’s a mere assertion from the government.

      Do you normally believe anything a government official asserts? You believe that should be the basis for deprivation of human rights?

  • Cypressclimber

    I am fascinated by the assumption by many commenters here that forced-feeding is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, apart from the “anal” method.

    Of course it’s wrong to starve oneself to death; but does that mean it’s OK to force food into someone? I’m not talking about a child or someone who is not mentally competent; I am talking about someone who is an adult and otherwise mentally competent.

  • Scott Bute

    Mark, you are welcome at our table anytime!