bible for brains

bible for brains August 7, 2013
bible for brains cartoon by nakedpastor david hayward
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It gets very frustrating when I try to initiate a conversation on a topic and people quote scripture after scripture after scripture. Then when I say I don’t agree with their view of scripture, they quote more scripture to support their view of scripture. Then when I tell them that this is ineffective because, as I’ve already said, I don’t agree with their view of scripture, then they quote more scripture with warnings of divine punishment because I don’t agree with the scripture. It’s a terrifying loop to get caught in. It’s a closed loop whirlpool with many victims that seems to be, while you’re caught in it, the only legitimate world there is. Once you’re out of it, though, you see its claims as extravagant and false.

I have a bible. In fact I have many. I don’t need anyone quoting me long passages of scripture. My cartoon the other day, Gays Confessing, got a lot of that kind of response. Including my personal Facebook page, my nakedpastor Facebook page and my Twitter. I was accused of not knowing my bible and being ignorant of its contents. One of my Facebook updates last night was:

“There’s biblical precedent for thinking you’re right with all the biblical support you need while at the same time being terribly wrong.”

That doesn’t seem to cross some people’s minds. It’s almost like if the bible was removed from their think tank their tank would be empty.

Fundamentalism depends upon a literalist interpretation of scripture that trumps thought.

It is important to provide safe places for people to deconstruct their view of the bible as they seek to live spiritually independent lives.

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  • Gary

    “Fundamentalism depends upon a literalist interpretation of scripture that trumps thought.”

    Wonderful toon and post today. Could not agree with you more. And the comment I quoted above sums it all up beautifully. And the really scary part of it all is…I have known so many fundies who take that comment and embrace it as a noble truth. Any thought process which calls into question ANY scriptural belief is to be discarded and purged from the mind, lest we be lead astray.

    The further away I get from my fundy past, the more destructive I realize it was/is.

  • Evidence2Hope

    Didn’t Paul say something similar to that status? “By the law he was faultless but still completely wrong?”

  • Chester McMackin

    The opening paragraph of your message reflects EXACTLY my own experience when I ask questions of the supposed learned scholars of the bible.

    I do not have any problem with people believing what they HONEST TO GOD BELIEVE, but the repetitious mode of response in quoting confusing scripture ( mayhap due to misinterpretation of the INTENT ) becomes annoying and smacks of political answer ( a.k.a. no answer ).

    I am presently in the process of putting together a response of 40 or so people when I asked the question on Facebook as to whether they truly ( HONEST TO GOD ) believed the accuracy of the bible authors. I was surprised, yet encouraged to note that so many people DO think with the brain given them, and still have their own questions. Not necessarily doubts, but rather QUESTIONS.

  • This may not apply to some people here but when bombarded with scripture quotes, I simply tell them I don’t think scripture is the Word of God. That stops them in their tracts. Once they realize that you don’t believe scripture is the word of God, then they realize that there is no point in quoting more scripture to you. If you tell them that you do believe scripture is the Word of God but you have a different interpretation of the scripture, then that invites them to try to convince you of their interpretation by selectively quoting more scripture that supports their view. I don’t have a good suggestion for those that believe in a different interpretation of scripture than those that quote it to you. It is a tough problem.

  • I enjoyed this one, David!

  • thanks all 🙂

  • klhayes

    It always amazes how quickly people’s brains shut down when they open their bible or the pastor opens his or her mouth…still shocked to this day.

  • Brigitte

    And then there is the brain with no Bible in it.

    1) It could be on Islamiscism, not to say the Koran:


    2) It could be those who have had the Bible operated out. — Such as those who say: “I don’t believe it literally true. But let me pull out a verse or two out of context and out of historical context (since the Bible is not historical) and let me show you how horrible it is.” And then if anyone wants to discuss it or bring in context, history or other verses to put the thing into perspective and context, they are denounced. Another kind of brilliant mind.

    3) There are other kinds of brains, but we can leave it at 1) and 2) for now.

  • Ambaa

    Awesome cartoon! I have ended up in this same awful loop too. And I’m not even Christian! I don’t believe in the Bible, yet some people argue with me by quoting it in endless streams 🙁

  • i get caught in that loop every day. when will i learn?????

  • Ambaa

    Somehow that has not worked for me! I’ve told them the Bible isn’t my scripture and that I may as well quote the Bhagavad Gita at them and just continued to get Bible quotes thrown at me! lol.

    I find these people are more likely to start trying to convince you that it is the Word of God…by quoting Bible verses.

  • Margie

    How does citing examples of extremism (no matter the flavor) somehow make the case that biblical literalism is not also extremist or that there are not just as many radical extremists within Christianity?

    As for taking verses out of context…I’ll issue a challenge. The following verses are (according to the bible) the very words of God. Let’s see if you can dream up ANY explanation as to why they are not immoral statements that would pass a basic morality test.

    Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
    Exodus 21:20-21

    While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death,as the Lord commanded Moses.

    Numbers 15:32-36

    And of course Moses also delivered this choice instruction in Numbers 31…

    “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Other morally corrupt actions or commands (supposedly) of God…

    Drowning the entire planet save 8 (which He later changed His mind and regretted…HUH?)

    Helps Judah kill 500,000 Israelites

    Slaughters 14,000 people for complaining that He was killing too many of them. (Way to show them…huh god?)

    Slaughters 50,000 (newer translations reduce the number to 50)for being curious and peeking into the Ark of the Covenant – kills another for touching the ark to steady it and prevent it from falling

    God sends bears to kill 42 CHILDREN for mocking Elisha

    An entire tribe slaughtered for missing roll call…except for the virgins who become sexual spoils

    God empowers Samson to kill 30 men simply because he lost a bet (and God empowered samson to slaughter thousands others)

    Of course we have worn out the passage where God forces rape victims to marry their attacker

    God kills the first son for the father’s sin

    Of course I could go on and on. But is it really necessary? These are examples of God’s actions…not merely stories of things sinful men did. No one is pulling these out of context here…they are abominable actions that the bibles states God Himself did or is directly responsible for.

  • Margie

    I don’t know why this has me identified as Margie, and so far I have been unable to fix it.

    But this is Gary

  • Sarah

    I used to get caught in that loop with my father, until I told him that I didn’t think I could listen to his “bible talk” anymore. What I think many “traditional” Christians think is that the bible is a book that has the answers in black and white and THAT answers THAT. My view of the bible is that it is a living document. This means that the bible has something to say to each generation (person) that no other generation (person) can understand. It is meant to be looked at and studied and interpreted in many different ways, not just recited. Interpretation is relational, reciting is just a power struggle.

  • But Gary… if God did it, it is good by definition. Case closed. God can do whatever He damn well wants and it is good and we should like it and ask for more. If only everybody would get on board with this, the world would be such a better place. We just need to follow our religious leaders and accept and love scripture. It is all true. It is all about what God wants. If what God wants happens to coincide with the prevailing social attitudes of the stone-age and iron-age people who happened to exist at the time scripture was written, then so be it. We must keep those attitudes for all perpetuity to be good and Godly people,

  • Sarah

    It’s cause they have to fill their quota. 🙂

  • Brigitte

    Sorry, I haven’t met any Christians advocating Mosaic law of 3 or 4 thousand years ago. We have no such mandate or law.

  • Brigitte

    And Sharia law is a current requirement. Islam is supposed to conquer the world for sharia law. And that is now.

  • Where did you hear that?

  • Brigitte

    Here is a map of countries where homosexuality is punishable by death or imprisonment, today.

  • Gary

    That is completely irrelavent to my point. I think you know this.

    If God is unchanging…and God really did those things…then He is STILL a monster.

    THAT is the problem with the silly scripture is inerrant nonsense.

  • Brigitte

    Gary, you never make any points. You just insult.

  • WillBell

    You missed the point… if it is wrong now why was it right then?

  • Evidence2Hope

    Read it in Philippians (chapter 3 I believe) and also heard Derek Flood talk about it

  • Gary

    Why would you state such a thing when my comment to you (as well as countless others) was very valid and pointing out the flaws of the argument for scriptural inerrancy? It is bad enough for you to make up lies that people have no way to verify…but to simply tell a lie in the face of direct evidence to the contrary is not just dishonest…but profoundly stupid.

  • Sharia law is just another example that scripture has human authors. I see no difference between Christian and Islamic scripture. Sharia law is harsh because it is backed up by the state in several countries. You can read in history books how harsh Christian scripture was when it was backed up by the state. You can also see how harsh Christian scripture is right now within certain “Christian bubble” communities.

  • Fantastic Cartoon !! Well done, David!

    I’d dare you to do this with the Qur’an — nah, never mind, I want you around longer.

    And on a nonreligious side: Put a TV in there and you’d address everyone.

  • Gary

    Yup…Philippians 3.

  • klhayes

    I always bring that up when people say “well the Bible says” or “I believe in Biblical X”…what if the other person is not Christian. No one has to believe what the Bible says. And so many people who say that stuff have not even read the Bible for themselves.

  • klhayes

    I talked about people who like to talk about the Bible but don’t read it…you made my point for me Evidence!

  • Evidence2Hope

    Not sure if that’s a good thing or not……

  • How can you trust it, then?

    If the Bible is untrustworthy?

  • The Bible is God’s Word. We can trust it.

    Are there errors in it? Yes. In detail, it is not perfect. God uses earthen vessels, does He not? The Bible is a product of God and of man. So it is not without error.

    But the Word is there. The message is infallible. It creates faith in the hearer or the reader, when and where He wills.

  • Evidence2Hope

    Paul is not referring to the Bible (it didn’t exist when he was writing) He’s referring to how he followed the law of what is now the Old Testament (plus anything else the Pharisees may have added) to the letter yet is still the “chief of all sinners” (to quote 1 Timothy 1:15)

    If the Bible is just a list of rules to follow, then yes Paul (by extension of his point) is saying it’s untrustworthy because even if you follow it all you’re still going to fail. But the whole point of what Paul is saying (if I’m understanding him correctly) is that Christ took away the need to simply follow a list of rules, took away the legalism. This is I think is the point of the status in the original article.

  • But where you read about it was in the Bible. So how can you trust it?

  • Evidence2Hope

    Trust it in that, it was Paul who wrote it or trust it in that what Paul is saying is correct?

  • I do not trust the Bible as such, but I can trust the Jesus I find written there from the memories of his first followers.

  • Brigitte

    Different nations have different laws at different times. This sort of thing is in flux with the conditions. Some legal codes are better than others and some are more up to date than others. As you know with Christ we are done with not only the ancient Mosaic law but also the sacrificial system. All gone. In fact those who monger in it are not Christian at all. It is the definition of the Christian that he clings only to Christ. As a citizen he also lives in a nation and so he comes under its rules.

  • Brigitte

    So in Spirit he is free of the law and hopeful toward God, but in practice there are things that the situation requires and the national law-givers demand for good order; and loving and respectful morality and honoring of God and neighbor is always expected. All this we should gladly submit to as far as our conscience allows because at times we also need to resist the law-giver, where his laws conflict with what God would want. Thus we sometimes clash.

  • Brigitte

    Ya, ya, ya, sharia is just like the “Christian bubble”. Fantastic analysis.

  • Gary

    Brigitte how about I ask you some very simple questions…

    Did God kill David’s first born child with Bathsheba because of David’s sin?

    Did God drown the entire planet save for Noah and his family, and then later regret it?

    Did God kill a man who was walking with the Ark of the Covenant for reaching out to steady it to try to keep it from falling?

    You keep talking about laws of the times and which codes are better than others. None of us are making that point at all…we are talking about what the bible declares to be the actions of God Himself. You keep sidestepping this main point as if you think we will lose track of it. But we won’t. The main point several of us have made is that if the bible is accurate and God actually did these things…then God Himself is immoral. The other option of course is that God is not immoral at all and these stories are not really things that God did, but rather men’s attempt to understand and explain God in the context of their own civilizations.

  • Brigitte

    God is killing us all for Eve eating the apple. Pretty bad guy. Even you, Gary, he will also have your life. He giveth and he taketh. Call him what you want. Your life and your soul will be demanded from you.

  • WillBell

    So when God killed all those people he was doing good? You’re still avoiding the question.

  • JosephBrown660

    Gary, I know this flies in the face of the today’s post, but please read the final chapters of Job. Unfortunately, you do not call the shots. God made the world, it is His world. You, as a consequence, should play by His rules. You have His rules in the Bible. Either you live by them or die forever. You do not have the power to change the rules unless you have the power to create your own world.

  • Gary

    So then you admit that God is an immoral being? Because I think we can all agree that if a man sins against you (or me or anyone else) and we choose to exact our vengeance upon him by killing his newborn infant…that would be a profanely immoral thing to do. (Just like killing you and me because Eve ate “the apple”) In other words…the doctrines of original sin and total depravity.

    If God created us in His image and with the ability to understand basic principles of right from wrong, and He Himself violates those very principles, then we must conclude that either a) God sins, or b) we are not created in his image and thus we have an unsolvable paradox.

    HOWEVER, when we recognize the fact that these stories are the product of men and not in fact the actual actions and/or nature of God then the paradox is resolved. What we are left with is a wonderful history document of the struggle of man to comprehend the incomprehensible. The search for truth becomes timeless and fresh and unbelievably rich.

    Oh and BTW…Boogeyman threats don’t work on those of us who choose to use our God given capacity for reason.

  • Gary

    And your declaration is EXACTLY the point. What you call “His rules” I call a gross perversion of the true nature of God, dreamed up and clung to by simple men seeking to explain what they could not understand

    I have read the final chapters of Job (as well as taught and preached from them) .many times over the years. There was a day when I resoundingly supported and defended this bullshit.

    FACT – The bible is NOT The Word of God. It is rife with contradictions, errors, and gross immorality attributed to God, therefor it is not possible that it be a product of God.

    I say (along with millions of others) that you and others like you do not have the power to declare a man made book “God’s rules”. You would do well to remind yourself that neither did you create this world…though others like you most certainly DID create a “rule book” and declare it to be “Holy”.

    Well guess what…you got it wrong.

  • Gary

    BTW – The final chapters of Job are clear proof that sensible people questioned the nonsense of believing in an immoral God even back then, and men wrote those chapters as a way of saying “we can’t defend or explain our belief, but you still have no right to question it”.


  • Brigitte

    We all die and there is always war. The question is was the war just.

  • Brigitte

    Mohammed also operated the Bible out of people’s brains. I believe if you look around you will find that the people who are blowing each others brains out are Muslim on Muslim, Shia against Sunni, Brotherhood against more moderate, Saudi style vs. other, Hezbollah against who else… and all of them against peaceful Christians in the regions, And, of course, if you saw the map of the countries who put homosexuals to death, it is also what goes on in those countries. Someone could sometime show some justice and show up their plight of people in those countries. North America thinks it’s the navel of the world. And Sharia law is not just for a few Islamic countries. It is meant for the entire world. This is how we get Islamists on our doorstep and simple people are being converted to this creed in our very cities. More than 100 million Christians are actively oppressed and persecuted in Muslim countries at this very time. Watch this work on the streets of London. Many of the young males in England are already Muslim.

    Go ahead, keep worrying about the Old Testament God.

  • Gary

    You are still totally blind to the point of this whole discussion. Muslims, just like Christians, have defined God in their own image. NONE of the definitions, nor the so called “Holy” rule books that are purported to support them, came from God…they are the product of men!!

    The truths (IMO) which we can trust all boil down to that simple truth that Jesus (and others) summed up so well. If we have kept the law of love…then basically we need no rules or rule books to guide us.

  • Brigitte

    The Bible is not a rule book and it didn’t just pop into someone’s head like the Koran, or the Book of Mormon. And when you will stop constantly calling people unflattering names and adjectives, I will perhaps begin believing a word about love from you. Otherwise, I would ask you to stop preaching.

  • Gary

    Your such a hoot when you lose all ability to have your position challenged. LOL What makes it so funny is that when you bring such fundamental views in here and directly challenge David’s posts…you know that probably 90% + of the posters here directly challenge your position. Yet you still come in and act all put out when you are challenged as if it is somehow out of line to present a different viewpoint.

    Then of course you resort to lies and projecting your horribly offensive behavior onto others. (Especially me) Well guess what Brigitte…no matter how much you insult me, lie about me, spout all your righteous indignation, and in general fail to discuss anything rationally, I will still post my views and attempt to engage people here in a healthy exchange of ideas.

    It is profoundly ironic (and really sad as well) that YOU accuse me of preaching…LOL. Seriously Brigitte…if you can’t have your views challenged without such childish behavior…then don’t come to a place where they will be challenged. Seems simple enough.

  • Brigitte

    Nothing like challenging the 90% who don’t like anyone who does not think like them.

  • Brigitte, are you a Coptic Christian living in or near the Middle East?

  • Gary

    And now you project your ill feelings towards others onto us…LOL.

    And seriously…enough with the continuous Islamophobic rhetoric and postings. Extremist radicals are ugly in ANY religion…including Christianity.

  • JosephBrown660

    So from what do you derive your authority from? Seems to me that you are on your own making up your own rules from your own sinful heart. Good luck with that one! I am firmly convinced that the Bible is the Word of God. We will never agree and will have to agree to disagree.

  • Gary

    So from what do YOU derive your authority from. Because it seems to me that the only source of authority for the bible is the bible itself. (Convenient Huh? And then it must be stretched and twisted to refer to it as “The Word of God) Fact, is according to the bible you believe to be His Word, Jesus Himself declared that He would send the Spirit of Truth to lead us. He made no such declaration about completing a book. So I would argue that MY authority comes from Christ Himself, whereas yours comes from a VERY imperfect book.

  • You see Joseph, this is what I believe makes you a fundamentalist, and even possibly a dangerous one. Gary disagrees with you and leaves it at that. You, however, impute eternal significance to the fact that he doesn’t align with your view of scripture, you call him a sinner, lawless, disobeying God, which to you probably has consequences in the afterlife, etc., etc., blah blah blah. Your “agree to disagree” is therefore loaded with fear, threat and carries within it the germ of hatred.

  • JosephBrown660

    Funny, I see you as a dangerous heretic, a false teacher and a blasphemer. You do not derive your authority from the Word of God but rather you make a mockery of it. You really do not have any absolute truth to base your opinions on. Instead you rely on humanistic interpretations that are of Satan.

  • But you’re the one reading me.

  • JosephBrown660

    Reading but not agreeing. It just confirms the accuracy of Scripture where it states that there will be a great falling away. Seems that your posting are a manifestation of that proclamation.

  • JosephBrown660

    Gary, I am not ashamed to say that I derive my authority from the Bible. Again, please enlighten me where you obtain your authority? You seemingly cannot answer that simple question. Is it because you do not have any and are relying on human instinct and intuition?

  • Gary

    I believe I have answered the question multiple times…perhaps you were not paying attention. Or perhaps you reject Jesus own words when He said He would send The Spirit of Truth to guide us?

    The bible is not my “authority” though I do have great respect for it and have studied it extensively over a period of several decades. But much if not most of it is the opinion of men and arguably wrong in many places. There is much to be learned from it to be sure. But in forming my views pertaining to truth and God…why would I need the authority of another for my own beliefs? Any such endorsement of “authority” is to deny the Spirit’s leading in my life and on my heart.

  • Gary

    Though you directed this at David…clearly this rebuke is meant for all of us who reject your penile approach to the mysteries of God. Your condemnation and rebukes no longer hold any sway over most of us here. We have learned NOT to fall prey to such abusive rhetoric and self righteous indignation. Frankly…my response to you is to tell you to fuck off and go find someone else to abuse.

  • Joseph, you seem to concede a lot to Satan. I take it you believe that yourself and a very small band of true believers are the only ones who understand Truth and everybody else in the world is “of Satan”. It is interesting that Satan (as you define the term) is so powerful and Satan never even had to write a book (or even exist).

  • JosephBrown660

    Have you discerned that the Spirit guiding you is the true Spirit of God? Or is it a messenger of the devil masquerading as a spirit of light? If you deny the Bible, I am of the opinion that you have no way to discern the Truth without the holding it up to the light of Scripture.

  • JosephBrown660

    Spoken with such great love. You appear to be a bitter hate filled person. Why is that? What are your beliefs in the Lordship of Christ, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the resurrection of Christ and the second coming of Christ?

  • JosephBrown660

    I believe that Satan is real. He has a lot of power and has fooled a lot of people. His goal is to damn as many people to hell as possible. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and have therefore overcome Satan’s power. He is real because Christ refers to him frequently. I realize you see this as folly but again, the Word is my authority. I cannot put faith in the feelings of mere humans.

  • tom sellier

    JosephBrown660 is attempting to sharpen your blade np. But you prefer a dull blade. You “think” you are a blade sharpener but do not think it beyond reason that your brand of “christianity” has de-evolved into a cult. You appeal to the carnal man. You have to have spiritual ears to understand what JosephBrown660 is saying which is why it was so frustrating for him to talk to Gary and why he broke it off the way he did. But you clamour for reasons to “feel” persecuted because that would “validate” your cult.

  • tom sellier

    It is actually a great compliment to have a brain immersed in scripture. To think Bible. Only those who hold their opinions above the Bible would not think so.

  • Gary

    You truly do crack me up. I am glad you popped in because I needed a good laugh. (And maybe others needed to see the ugliness of fundamentalism directly)

    Let me see if I have this right.

    You come into David’s blog spouting fundamental nonsense and telling people they are sinners, heretics, blasphemers, and pawns of satan, AND (Oh how I struggle to control my laughter on this one) your perverse and twisted mind somehow believes it is ME who is the “bitter hate filled person” for telling you (rightly so) to FUCK OFF!!!

    There is so much peace knowing that I can confront your evil perversion of Jesus message and not be the least bit swayed by the putrid bullshit that you and others like you spew forth. Go ahead and condemn me to hell…I fear not ones like you who have no power or authority over me. Fortunately for you however, I believe God loves you and accepts you in spite of your hatred. Because frankly…I think you are a deliberate asshole!!

  • JosephBrown660

    You are one sick demented dude. You boast of your love but if someone points out something that does not comport with Scripture you erupt into a foul tirade spewing out vulgarities.
    Really, do you think Jesus acted like that? Should you?
    You should, as the Scripture commands, compare the spirit in you to see if it is in fact a spirit of God and not of the devil. But, alas, you do not believe the authority of the Scripture so you have nothing to compare it to.
    I am not damning you to hell, I do not have that power, only God has that. I am, however, alerting you of the dangers that await those who refuse to accept God’s chosen means of salvation give through His beloved Son.
    Progressive “Christians” always are interesting to deal with. They are so predictable, like anyone on the left for that matter, they immediately resort to hate filled attacks, usually laced with vulgarities, when they cannot defend their positions. In reality much akin to spoiled children.

  • Hmmm… If Gary is one sick demented dude for just having a conceptualization of God as not One that sends people to hell, then what does that make you, Joseph, who does have such a hell-sending conceptualization of God. What does that make your concept of God?

  • Gary

    When have I boasted of my love? I said love is the standard. I never claimed to be able to live up to it…and honestly, assholes like you are where I still fail.

    As for whether Jesus rebuked with candid vulgarity…read your bible and look at the way He confronted the Pharisees. Then for a little personal exercise try removing the work Pharisee and placing your own name there because you may be the best example of one I have encountered in years.

    As for your statement that we cannot defend our views…that is really comical. What makes it funny is that you are blind to the ignorance of such a statement as you clearly have not engaged anyone intellectually. Frankly, unless you want your world rocked and your beliefs shattered, I would recommend you remain in ignorance. That is the only way extremist fundamentalists like yourself can keep their beliefs intact.

    As for my use of vulgarities I assure you…profanity, when I include it, is an excellent choice and one I embrace. You’ll find I pull it out more often and with a very deliberate purpose when dealing with abusive and contempt filled fundamentalists like you. I throw some extra fucks and shits in my speech simply because it serves the purpose of exposing your arrogant self righteousness for the ugliness that it is.

    “Like anyone on the left for that matter” is a statement which reveals you to be not just exceptionally simple minded, but also willing to engage in stereotyping in extremely prejudiced ways.

    You truly do represent the worst that religion has to offer. When I tell you to FUCK OFF, try not to take it too personally. It is simply that I will not suffer the contempt of belligerent ignorance for too long.

  • Gary

    Yup…it is the “true Spirit of God”.

    I am of the opinion that you have no way to discern the truth because you do not know His voice, and have chosen instead to worship a collection of writings of other men who were seeking rather than listen for the true Voice.

  • JosephBrown660

    Jeff, I believe Hell is real, Jesus mentions it many times. I know you do not believe in the Bible. Unfortunately, many people have been deceived into believing that a loving God will not cast anyone into hell. If the Bible is real, those people are dead wrong.

  • JosephBrown660

    Jesus never used profanities. Just like you mistakenly believe the Bible is not the inspired Word of God, you have also have been deceived into believing Jesus is the one who the Bible says He is.
    You might be well served to check out that “guiding” spirit. From my vantage point, he is deceiving you. But then again, you factually state that the Bible is not the Word of God. Therefore you really have no compass to illustrate truth to you.

  • JosephBrown660

    And you know this how?
    The Bible is NOT a mere collection of writings of other men. It is the inspired Word of God. That is how I know you are being lead by a deceiving spirit. A spirit of hate and deceit.

  • JosephBrown660

    I have read your posts and in one not too long ago, you boast of being a very loving person.

  • Gary

    What part of me not caring about “your vantage point” are you really not getting?

    You factually state the bible IS “The Word of God”. This is false and never claimed by the bible. Jesus IS the Word of God according to scripture. The bible is stated to be a proclamation (just like when I make a proclamation…or when you do) but it is not THE WORD.

    As for Jesus profanities…He called them a term that was roughly equivalent to our term “son of a bitch”, only it was much more vulgar and offensive to them.

  • Gary

    And you know this HOW?

    Seriously dude…give it up. You make claims about the bible that it does not even make about itself. You seriously can take your proclamations about me “being lead by a deceiving spirit. A spirit of hate and deceit” and shove them up your ass. Your attacks are not welcome and will always be met with a strong rebuke. What part of FUCK OFF are you really not getting????

  • JosephBrown660

    You are so steeped in your folly and pride that really there is no hope for you. We will never agree on this matter and with that I rest my case.
    The Bible says that “All Scripture is God breathed” You have been sorely deceived.

  • Gary

    No you lie. I have stated many times that love is the standard, and it is the truth by which I seek to evaluate various beliefs. I do endeavor to be more loving, and in fact I believe I am far more loving then I was in my clouded mind days. It is my goal and I will state plainly that many of my former unloving views and beliefs have been shed from my mind and thought processes so I am making progress. In fact this has been a benchmark for me in helping me understand which beliefs are true and right. Those which make me more loving towards others who I used to judge are ones I embrace.

    But I am still quite willing to look a radical fundamentalist (such as yourself) in the eye and tell them they are full of shit…and yes (in spite of their belief to the contrary) it stinks too.

  • Gary

    I am well aware of the passage you just quoted, and in so doing ripped out of context and intent. Not to mention the fact that it does NOT SAY that scripture is “The Word of God”. One again your absolute declarations are without substance.

    Now you declare my disagreement with you is “folly and pride”…and yet you still believe you have some sort of moral high ground. BTW ask yourself this question…How great a fool is that one who believes that it is only “folly and pride” which will cause another to disagree with them? You are a simple man JosephBrown660, with a mind so closed that you believe you cannot possibly be mistaken. THIS is what makes you that fool.

    So glad you are going to rest your case. Maybe you finally looked up what the term “FUCK OFF” means.

  • Gary

    I do not hold my opinions above the bible. I think a lot of it is wonderful and both wise and great advice. Of course…neither do I necessarily hold the opinions in the bible above mine. Some of the “opinions” in it are downright disgusting.

  • tom sellier

    which means any opinion you have on the bible is a blind man describing light. You have no idea of which you speak. And never will. You are Dave. You and Dave need to be born again. Then speak.

  • Gary

    You are playing the part of the fool tom. You are an offensive ass who thinks he knows that which he cannot possibly comprehend. Seriously dude…go take your rebukes and condemnations and shove them where that sun don’t shine.