Defending the Bible

Defending the Bible May 22, 2015

Sometimes Biblical scholars are accused of attacking the Bible quote

In a post yesterday, I wrote “Sometimes Biblical scholars are accused of attacking the Bible, or of attacking “believers,” or both. But the truth is that most Biblical scholars love the Bible, and are defending it from the distortions, misrepresentations, and lies that are committed by people who praise the Bible, but either don’t know or ignore what it actually says.” I thought that was memeworthy, and so offered a challenge to meme it.

No one took me up on the offer, and so I guess if you want a job done, you have to do it yourself…

 


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  • Dr. Dee Tee

    the problem with the above statement is that it ignores biblical teaching. John 14 & 16 has Jesus telling everyone to follow the HS to the truth. There is no biblical instruction to follow scholars, especially those who are like Robert Cargill– atheists.

    They do not even believe God exists so how can they shed light on the Biblical passages when they do not even know what the biblical passages are saying. The same goes for those who opt for alternatives. How can they explain the Bible when they do not even believe or accept its words and take secular science over its passages?

    Scholars come in all shades, sizes and colors and do not necessarily agree with each other so how can the typical scholar be followed when they just present confusion to the church?

    Jesus said everyone would know the truth, he did not say you shall know the interpretation. The biblical scholar, if they want to help the church fight false teaching need to go back to square one, John 3, and be born again, then they need to learn from God before helping the church member sitting in the pew.

    Anything else would be deemed false teaching which the Bible speaks against

    • There is nothing in the Bible about listening to blog commenters, or commenting on blogs for that matter. Your selective appeal to what scripture explicitly mentions is very obviously inconsistent and self-serving.

      The Bible shows itself to be drawing on Wisdom from an areay of sources, whether Proverbs drawing on Egyptian sources or Acts drawwing on Greek ones.

      • Dr. Dee Tee

        Actually there is:

        Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor. 6:14

        How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
        Nor stand in the [a]path of sinners,
        Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
        2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, Ps. 1

        Please show me where I am being selective? Then

        16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another [b]Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, John 14

        12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; John 16

        So you are saying that the Biblical writers disobeyed God and copied from unbelievers? What do you think that does to the Bible?

        • So when Paul quotes a pagan poem about Zeus in Acts 17, he was disobeying God? Presumably he was disobeying God earlier when he read the poem to begin with? But you know better…or do you? By your standard, everyone who disagrees with you is an unbeliever. So aren’t you disobeying God by reading my blog?

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            It would help if you gave the verse or verses you are referring to because I do not see Zeus’ name or the poem mentioned anywhere in that chapter.

            Why would he be disobeying God? He is quoting something not listening to it, advocating it to be listened to or followed.

            He may be using it to cite an example and then present God’s way but you have to be more specific As I do not see the poem you refer to. Then how do you know that the pagan poem was not changed to quote Paul instead?

            “But you know better…or do you?”

            I asked you where I was being selective and gave you some verses to back up my point so you could do that. Then I asked you about biblical writers quoting secular sources or drawing from them. How do you know they did that and it was not the reverse?

            What evidence do you have to support that point?

            “By your standard, everyone who disagrees with you is an unbeliever.”

            It has nothing to do with me. But if you disagree with God that is another matter and you would need to present scriptures granting permission to do as you think. I haven’t seen any yet.

          • It is telling that you neither know the Bible well enough to know where in Acts 17 Paul refers to what certain poets have said, nor do you care enough about the Bible to look it up. http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/17-28.htm

            That you think that disagreeing with you and/or the human authors of the Bible is disagreeing with God shows that you have missed the warnings in the Bible about idolatry, too.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            He is using the poets as an example so the Greeks can relate to what he is saying. he is not accepting the pagan poems, their message nor incorporating them into God’s word or his message to the Greeks.

            “nor do you care enough about the Bible to look it up.”

            I needed the verse, all you gave me was a chapter and that is not helpful in looking it up.

            “That you think that disagreeing with you and/or the human authors of the Bible is disagreeing with God shows that you have missed the warnings in the Bible about idolatry, too.”

            Yet God uses humans to do a lot of his work, like writing down his words. Will you use the same argument against the atheist Bible scholars?

            How would the atheist know what God says when God says there is no fellowship between him and them? They are separated from God by their unrepentant sin so how would they know what God is saying in the Bible?

            The same argument applies to ancient secular records and writings. Where do you draw the line and how to you get to the truth under your current form of thinking?

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            Just checking to see if I am banned or not and letting you know I am waiting your reply

          • You are not banned, but if you don’t say things that are worth discussing, you will not necessarily get a reply. You claim to know what was in the minds of the Biblical authors. You assume that what certain ancient humans wrote – but not others – are the words of God. Unless you are willing to provide a rational argument for adopting those stances, there isn’t really anything to discuss, nor any way to discuss it, is there?

          • David

            Just for clarification– what criteria are you going to use to determine what is or isn’t rational and are you the only judge on the matter?

            Then these words: “You claim to know what was in the minds of the Biblical authors.”

            yet you do the exact same thing to me,

            “You assume that what certain ancient humans wrote”

            you make claims about my words and assume you can read my mind and know what I am doing but in reality all you are doing is labeling my words the way you want them to be read when you have no idea why I said them or how I came to those conclusions.

          • You can try being clearer in the future. But I do not think that I am mistaken in understanding that you take the human writings that are collected in the Bible and treat them as thought God rather than human beings were the author.

            You claimed to know what Paul or Luke felt about the poem to Zeus that was quoted.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            God was the author if he wasn’t then we have no scriptures to work with, no salvation, nothing.

            I do not claim, I know. As Jesus said, ‘ye shall know the truth’ & ‘Follow the HS to the truth’ (Jn. 14 & 16)

            why would you make scriptures the product of fallible men? There is nothing to gain by doing so.

            If you say some scriptures are authored by God and some are not then who gets to choose? All you are doing is cherry picking and designing your own faith.

          • My Bible doesn’t say “By scripture you have been saved, through believing it is authored by God.” But even if it did, why should someone accept that just because humans say it? I don’t say that any Scriptures are authored by God. All of them are human products, and we are responsible to use our human reasoning and discernment in interpreting them and agreeing or disagreeing with them.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            yes BUT scriptures does say ‘by grace are ye saved through faith…’ if you make the Bible a human work you just tossed out salvation or you go to cherry picking.

            if they aren’t the words of God why are you following them? Wouldn’t you go to where you can find God’s actual words?

          • If I find such a place, I might indeed go there.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            Sad.

          • Yes, that you have mistaken human words for the words of God, and have the audacity to presume to dictate what God must have provided in order to meet your fundamentalist demand for certainty is indeed sad. It was sad when I mistakenly viewed the Bible that way, too, but fortunately I studied the Bible and was willing to let the evidence from the Bible challenge my dogmas about the Bible.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            Why is it all you alternative believers have to change the meanings of my words? You all do it.

            It is sad that you think the Bible is not God’s word yet you go to church, teach sunday school and so on. How can you grow in Christ when you reject his words?

            I hope you are not calling yourself a Christian as Jesus didn’t do that

          • I did not change the meaning of your words. Jesus did not call himself a Christian.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            yes you did. The only word I wrote was ‘sad’ and then you twisted that word into saying something I did not say

            You like playing semantic games don’t you?

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            P.S. What is the point in agreeing or disagreeing with biblical authors if you think those are only human words? There is no point under your logic.

          • What is the point in agreing or disagreeing with a blogger if you think those are only human words?

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            because there is a standard of truth with which to measure their words. you just removed that standard by making the bible all human.

          • I am not making the Bible anything. I am just being honest about what I find it to be. You are the one who are making it something that it is not. I would encourage you to actually study it, in detail.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            yet the Bible itself says it is inspired by God, that ‘God’s word came to’ and on it goes. You are taking away from the Bible its rightful identity

            I have studied and read it longer than you have been alive and know it to be the word of God. You just listened to the wrong people and you still do.

          • You could at most make the claim that whoever assembled the prophetic books believed them to be inspired. But they all still reflect their human authors’ language, personality, and style.

            You do not get to rewrite someone else’s life history to fit your dogmatic assumptions. I fought against the view that the Bible is not inerrant when people presented it. It was only evidence from the Bible itself that convinced me to change my mind.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            But then we are back to the same problem, where are God’s word then if we do not have them?

            Then you must ask, why didn’t God give us his word if the Bible is not it?

            All you are saying is that God does not exist then because the Bible is just another book

            I am curious as to what evidence you refer to as you mentioned it twice.

          • Perhaps God knew that the human desire for certainty undermines faith and trust. Perhaps God saw that those who want an idol will make one out of human writings even if God does not provide one, even if God prohibits the, from doing so.

            Maybe you should start by tracing the geographical movements and chronologies in the infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke, and then see whether they fit together? Or perhaps you should ask whether your view of what the Bible is has room for the statement of Paul in 2 Corinthans, “I am speaking as a fool and not according to the Lord”?

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            Why would you accept a God that would not leave any clear instructions for his followers?

            How could you please him if you did not know what he desired?

            Why would you be content with a God that was not fair to everyone and had the same set of rules applying to everyone?

            Your position both removes God and also states that if there was one he didn’t care enough to guide his followers to the correct way of doing things.

            You make him unfair, unjust and unconcerned and who would want to serve a God like that?

          • People have accused God of being unjust for purportedly revealing himself exclusively to one people. People have invented all sorts of demands and explained disasters in terms of humans’ failure to live up to them. Still others have said that God demands nothing, that nothing but God’s grace alone matters. Some have depicted God as unjustly punishing the innocent while letting the guilty go free. No matter what some have claimed that God did, some humans have perceived it as unjust. And so it is unclear that human perception of such matters is a helpful guide.

          • Dr. Dee Tee

            You do not answer questions very well do you?

            God did not reveal himself to one people as the ancient egyptians would attest. he made 1 people his, like he does with modern Christians and all are free to read about him, learn about him and jjoin if they would like.

            as for punishment, that depends upon their view and which standard of justice they are using to make that determination.

            if they are not using God’s then they are going to get the wrong idea about God’s actions