Uncertainty is Uncomfortable

Uncertainty is Uncomfortable May 14, 2015
Uncertainty is Uncomfortable

On a related note, Roger Olson had the following to say in a post on “The Problem of Irrational, Unteachable Christians”:

Anti-intellectual obscurantism is a persistent problem among Christians. The ideal of the “holy fool” endures among us…People who appeal to belief against logic, who revel in irrationality, are unteachable. Nothing anyone says to them about their belief can cause them to ponder, to reflect, to think again—which is what being teachable means. People who appeal to belief against logic, who revel in irrationality, also give Christianity a bad name—making it appear unintelligible to inquiring minds. “Check your mind at the door” (of the church or Christian school) is the message. To be a Christian you must sacrifice your intellect is the message…

A person who admits his life and worldview, his philosophy or theology, contains logical contradictions cannot expect others to take his life and worldview, his philosophy or theology, seriously. Some may, but that just demonstrates they are not thinking people. They, too, are unteachable. Being teachable requires being open to correction. Being open to correction requires commitment to logic. Refusing to bow to logic is retreat from all understanding into sheer obscurantism. I would go further and agree with Karl Barth who said “Fear of scholasticism is the mark of a false prophet.” Whatever Barth may have meant by “scholasticism” in that quote, it surely included logical thinking about revelation and faith.

Anyone who says “Believe what I say even though it is illogical, ridiculous, nonsensical, and foolish!” is a demagogue (at that moment) and people within hearing range should run away as fast as possible.

Anyone who claims his or her belief system, worldview, theology, philosophy is not illogical must remain open to correction and if it can be shown that two or more of his or her beliefs are contradictory he or she must make adjustments or risk being ignored.

Click through to read the whole thing. I think that one or more parts of the post probably deserve to become meme images. Let me know which ones you think are particularly worth highlighting and circulating!

Of related interest, see Ethan Clendening’s recent post “On Escaping Fundamentalism.”

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  • Stork

    Olsen: Anyone who says “Believe what I say… is a demagogue…”

    If Olsen is correct, then the NT was written by demagogues.

    Hebrews 11:6 must believe
    James 1:6 you must believe
    1 John 3:23 we must believe
    Mark 11:23 you must really believe
    John 14:1 believe…believe
    John 14:11 believe me
    Colossians 1:23 you must continue to believe
    1 Thessalonians we believe…we believe
    2 Timothy 3:14 you must cling to the things which you have learnt and have been taught to believe

    • Patrick

      The fact that you’ve missed the rest of what he said is the issue at heart here…. asking someone to believe you is fine and is not what is being discouraged here. What is being discouraged is belief in nonsensical, irrational, foolish and illogical statements without thought.

    • Fortunately, as an atheist, I am immune from this comeupperance.

  • Alan Christensen

    I’ve long thought that certainty sells a lot better than uncertainty. Which may explain to a great extent why more rigidly dogmatic forms of evangelicalism have prospered a lot more (and declined a bit less) than liberal/progressive Christianity.

    • Jack Haggerty

      James McGrath and Roger Olson are to be congratulated in identifying and condemning ‘anti intellectual obscurantism’. The problem is more pressing in the USA than the United Kingdom where I live. But do we have to choose between certainty and uncertainty as you suggest, Alan? Surely it is about ‘contending for the faith’ as Jude has it? We are commanded by Christ to preach the Gospel to every living creature. Can it be done half-heartedly? We are fighting for men’s souls and for their eternal welfare. I am reading a new book by J Paul Nyquist, ‘Prepare – Living Your Faith in an Increasingly Hostile Culture’ (Moody Publishers 2015). The book’s thesis is that secular society now wants to silence the Christian voice and to eliminate the Christian influence. To put it simply, Christians and their Bible are no longer welcome in the public forum and never will be again. ‘It’s impossible to overstate the impact of the abandonment of biblical marriage,’ writes Mr Nyquist. ‘Gay marriage’ and ‘gay adoption’ are legal now in the United Kingdom as well. To oppose them is to be guilty of ‘hate speech’. The other game-changer is secular society’s contempt for, and silencing of, Biblical preaching. In this direction the United Kingdom is moving more rapidly and ruthlessly than the USA. Our opinion shapers have removed Christian teaching from most schools. It is a safe bet that within ten years social activists in Britain will close churches which do not conform to society’s new way of thinking. As a reformed Christian I used to quote Archbishop Fulton Sheen who said that Christendom was dead but Christ was not. Yet Christ has departed from most aspects of British society.

      • Neko

        I had not heard that heterosexuals could no longer get married in the UK. Oh my!

        • Jack Haggerty

          Patheos ‘progs’ make worthy adversaries, Neko. Your witty remark has a touch of Oscar Wilde. May we all keep our sense of humour. What’s coming next is ‘marriage’ between three, four and even six people. It will happen first in Scandinavia, then California, then the UK. (We slavishly follow the US.) ‘In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.’ Judges 21: 25.

          • You are worried that the course we are on will bring us back to Biblical marriage, in which one man can have as many wives and concubines as he can afford? Don’t you find that concern ironic?

          • Jack Haggerty

            Good point, Dr McGrath. A minister in the Free Church of Scotland made an allusion to this in a sermon. He said it wasn’t clear why polygamy was allowed – he thought there could have been a shortage of men due to war or pestilence, and the survival of the Jewish people was at stake. I supported civil partnership for gay people. Gay marriage led to gay adoption. I think it is profoundly wrong to deny a baby the chance of a surrogate mother and hand the child over to two homosexual men. What game or fantasy are homosexual men playing? The welfare of the baby has been sacrificed in order to gratify the lifestyle fantasies of pederasts.

          • What kind of despicable individual suggests that all people who experience same-sex attraction – or heterosexuals, for that matter – engage in, or even fantasize about, sex with minors?

            If you cannot attain the minimal level of basic human decency, how can you claim to be aiming for the higher Christian standard of love and compassion towards all?

          • Jack Haggerty

            I said no such thing, Dr McGrath. I said that a child deserves the love and devotion only a woman can bring. There is never any shortage of women in Britain who are desperate to adopt a child. This new law was passed to gratify the homosexual lobby. As for my compassion, I do realise that same-sex attraction is an orientation and not a choice. I am aware that gay and transgender people face the threat of murder, violence, abuse, discrimination, intimidation and misunderstanding. I can think of great artists who were gay – Proust, Oscar Wilde, Gide, Gertrude Stein, Willa Cather, WH Auden, Patrick White, Somerset Maugham,Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams, Benjamin Britten,Cole Porter etc. I have the biographies of all these people on my shelves. I am truly sorry this issue has become so contentious. I said in a Patheos blog that John MacArthur was wrong to say that Christian churches should shun any of the church members who are in a gay relationship. I am convinced Jesus Christ would do no such thing.

          • What do you mean you “said no such thing” Haggerty?! You said:

            “What game or fantasy are homosexual men playing? The welfare of the baby has been sacrificed in order to gratify the lifestyle fantasies of pederasts.”

            That is truly despicable! You called gay men who want to adopt “pederasts”!

            I have several friends who have adopted children as gay couples precisely because they want to be loving parents (not to fulfill whatever “fantasy” you are imagining in your filthy mind). And they ARE loving parents – quite often to children who were unwanted or getting lost in the foster care system.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I mean I said no such thing, Beaux. The game or fantasy which gay men are playing is that they too can adopt children and play happy families. The child becomes a lifestyle love object, (No society I can think of has ever done anything like this.) They are asking for a degree of equality which until very recently would have been widely regarded as unrealistic not to say unnatural. This would never have got on the statute books if the Second World War generation had still been with us, because they would have seen it for the piece of ludicrous social engineering that it is. Pederasty is a word in the dictionary. You accuse me of having a filthy mind. Because I said that a baby or toddler deserves a mother if a mother is available. I have the support of the Anglican Church, the Roman Catholic Church and nearly all evangelical churches. Put the child first.

          • Neko

            I’ll bet some of the kids I know thank God/their lucky stars they were rescued from their useless mothers by responsible and loving gay men.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I do think gay men make great uncles, Neko. I wish Truman Capote had been an uncle of mine. What fun that would have been. Until recently it took a man and a woman to create new life. I think the child needs the man and woman if there is a couple available. Homosexuality was decriminalised in Britain in the 1960s and rightly so. But no one then suggested that gay men should adopt. I suspect there was a change of heart in the gay communities. Promiscuity and the bath-house culture was out. Domesticity was in. Gay adoption was all about making gay men feel better about themselves. No one could really have argued that the change came about because of concern for babies and toddlers. In Britain there was no real debate. Gay adoption was rushed through via human rights. In Edinburgh a young heroin addict was deemed unfit to bring up her baby. The baby was given to two homosexual men. The grandparents objected and were told by a social worker they might never see the child again. Grandparents have no real rights under law. I say it is profoundly evil, wrong, wicked, immoral, unnatural, to have denied that baby a mother. I don’t give a dash what today’s fashion is. They can put me in jail. But I will go on saying it.

          • Neko

            Please spare me your martyrdom fantasies. Gay marriage and adoption is an equal rights issue, and a stabilizing force in society. Perhaps as a Christian you could work on overcoming your bigotry instead of tossing about wild calumnies against an entire class of people.

          • Jack Haggerty

            The notion of martyrdom never entered my head. I can see why you think I am a bigot. People in my country will say to a bigoted person, ‘It’s time you took a long hard look at yourself.’ I shall take that long hard look at myself, that I can promise, Neko. May I tell you this? I had an older cousin, John, who emigrated to Australia in the late 1950s and never returned to Scotland. He was an exceptionally kind, gifted, sensitive and good looking man. He never married. His older brother told me recently: ‘John was gay. That’s really why he emigrated to Australia. He couldn’t imagine a life for himself in the Scotland of that period.’ Looking back now I can see how bigoted Scottish culture was in that long ago time. Traditional Christianity played its role in that homophobic bigotry. How terrible that men had to relocate to Australia, the USA or even just to London in order to be themselves. Read any biography of Montgomery Clift and it is clear that he suffered because he had to keep his sexual and emotional orientation a secret from the American public. He was such a fantastic actor and his life was a tragedy that need not have been. Incidentally, my cousin John made a very good life for himself in Australia. And I believe he found happiness in a relationship. Before his death at the age of about 80 John sat down with the priest in his church and arranged his own funeral service.

          • Neko

            Uh, yeah you did, when you said:

            I don’t give a dash what today’s fashion is. They can put me in jail. But I will go on saying it.

            This is pretty typical of the paranoia that LGBT equality somehow amounts to persecution of Christians. When you consider there are places where Christians are driven out of their homes and livelihoods, imprisoned, tortured and executed, it’s particularly obscene to cry persecution over what amounts to a mandate for common decency toward non-heterosexuals. You have to bake a cake for a gay wedding, or interact with same-sex parents at school meetings? Boo hoo!

            I’m glad your cousin John was able to make a good life for himself, but of course you’re right, he shouldn’t have had to move to the other side of the globe to do so. It’s encouraging that the rising generation leans toward non-discrimination. No wonder they’re alienated from institutional religion.

          • Jack Haggerty

            Well said. Yes, it is very encouraging that the rising generation support non-discrimination. Their ‘alienation’ from the Christian church has a long history. It goes back well before my own generation. The First World shook Europe to its roots, and it was then followed by the Depression and the rise of fascism, the Holocaust and the atomic bomb being dropped on Japan. I would trace the roots of apostasy as far back as the 18th Century as well as to the industrial revolution of the 19th Century. Matthew Arnold saw ‘the sea of faith’ on the retreat in his famous poem Dover Beach. William Ruskin lost his faith after reading Darwin, though John Henry Newman accepted the theory of natural selection without the slightest demure. Newman’s faith was unshakable. When I said that I would risk prison it was not meant in the spirit of self-conscious martyrdom. I do think gay adoption is a mistake. You disagree, and regard me as a figure out of yesterday. But it is no bad thing to have a few voices of dissent. The post-Christian world should be mature enough to tolerate loyal opposition. We Christians can obey what we regard as a bad law and still speak out about it. That’s loyal opposition. I want to win back Europe for Jesus Christ and that is going to take what Martyn Lloyd-Jones called ‘the fight of faith’. It is a spiritual battle and doesn’t involve any kind of violence. But a battle it will be. Read the journals of John Wesley if you have the time. You won’t agree with his evangelical faith. But the writing brings the 18th Century alive. Wesley is a strangely haunting presence. Thanks for your kind remarks about my cousin.

          • Andrew Dowling

            Many a children have horrible, abusive mothers. Many children are stuck in the hell-hole that is often the rotating foster and group home system. Many children would be in FAR superior situations being raised by two men than those alternatives.

            And I’ll third . you just called all gay men who’d want to adopt child molesters. That’s absolutely atrocious.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I never raised the spectre of paedophilia, Mr Dowling. Dr McGrath and Mr Quilter seized on my use of the word pederast and in a flight of righteousness marked me down as a sick-minded individual. Actually pederasty (a younger man and an older man) is as much a common practice in the gay world as teenage prostitution is in the straight world. I simply question and oppose the wisdom of this new piece of social engineering. If something isn’t broke, don’t fix it. The adoption process as it existed until recently worked well by and large and didn’t need such momentous changes – men and women who wanted to adopt were strictly vetted. In my above reply to Neko I have said that gay adoption was all about making gay men feel better about themselves. I stand by that. This is all about homosexuals enjoying emotional self-enhancement. It is not about the welfare of the child who is being used as a pawn in the gay adoption changes. Of course there are homosexual couples who love being adoptive parents. Children bring out the best in so many people. We have all had to endure the guff written about Elton John and his sudden experience of ‘fatherhood’. The child will become the love object that holds the homosexual couple together. But there will be quite as many break-ups as there are in heterosexual relationships; more I suspect, since the homosexual partnership as Somerset Maugham admitted is more unstable. The ‘progs’ will all come down on me for saying this but it is true. All the homosexual males I have spoken to in London admit their doubts about the wisdom of gay adoption. The only thing that matters is the child. There is no shortage of women desperate to adopt a baby, toddler or older child. (Teenagers are harder to place with foster parents. Some say stable gay couples do well in helping troubled teenagers and I can well believe it.) My starting point is in the primacy of mother and child. The progressives have broken with the deepest of emotional and biological experiences. They have prevented babies enjoying the love and care that only a woman can provide. Be it on their own heads. What will it be like for a little boy or girl growing up without a mother? Children growing up with an identity problem because Dad and Dad are homosexuals? What will the fall-out be twenty years from now? What will it be like when the social engineers admit once again, ‘We got it wrong’?

          • Neko

            Oh well. It seems Yahweh was OK with three, four, six, and even hundreds, so long as it was one patriarch to the many wives.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I can only admire your beautiful pet, Neko. I love cats and could never fall out with another cat lover. William Burroughs wrote a beautiful short book about cats. As for the Old Testament, there are violent passages which I find strange and horrifying; I am not a fundamentalist. The important person is Jesus Christ, the living bread come down from heaven. He said, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me. Hard for all of us, straight or gay.

          • Neko

            It’s been many years since I read that book; perhaps I’ll take it down from the shelf for a Friday-night read. Thank you for mentioning it!

            I doubt Jesus ever said “Take up your cross daily, and follow me.” However, he might as well have. You’re right, of course, that Christianity is hard.

          • Jack Haggerty

            Well, he is quoted as saying it. OK, I wasn’t there. Christianity is so hard it seems absurd in some lights. I used to call myself an agnostic and a humanist. I would have despised someone who spouted my present ideas. I can fully see why Dr McGrath and Beaux Quilter find my views repellent. I agree with Kierkegaard who said Christianity is both reactionary and revolutionary. My fear is that progressive Christianity is as wordly in its own way as the prosperity gospel. Of course progressive Christianity attracts a much better person, it is a very different kind of wordliness, that I don’t doubt. But Kierkegaard would have seen both as wordly … as would Augustine, Pascal.

          • Neko

            I’d quibble that Jesus wasn’t quoted. Rather, the saying (as they all are) is an attribution. Jesus may or may not have said these things. We’ll never know!

            Anyway, it’s the spirit not the letter that matters.

          • Jack Haggerty

            Of course you are correct, it is the spirit not the letter. But the idea of self-denial is consonant with all that we learn about this radiant and blessed person whom the Gospels portray so unforgettably. ‘I am the light of the world.’ Men know they are walking in darkness because Christ shows us up as we really are. No wonder the Grand Inquisitor in ‘The Brothers Karamazov’ tells Christ to go away and never return again. To see that he is Lord and yet be unwilling to accept him as Lord is perhaps the greatest tragedy of all.

          • Neko

            I’ve been responding through my disqus dashboard and was unaware of the rest of the conversation. Otherwise I wouldn’t have offered a redundant remark about polygamy in the Old Testament (and would have declaimed against your views on SSM!).

            I can think of worse tragedies than not accepting Jesus as Lord. Many, many worse tragedies.

          • Jack Haggerty

            Yes, children dying in the Third World, children being neglected and brutalised in our own developed world. Many other horrors. I meant that for the Christian, accepting Jesus Christ as the absolute and only Saviour is the greatest good fortune. To reject him is the worst personal tragedy. Far more tragic than not finding a fulfilling personal relationship. If you are not a Christian, none of this can make any sense. Likewise, same sex marriage. However I am not so sure any of the ‘gay’ writers I like reading would have felt so strongly about SSM if they had lived to see it come about. Would James Baldwin? Would Burroughs? I suspect Capote would have thought gay adoption a bad idea. I suspect Patrick White would have thought the same. Gertrude Stein told Hemingway she thought physical love between women could be beautiful, but that between men it was ugly. (See Hemingway’s A Movable Feast.) I make no comment either way on this statement of Stein’s except to say that at one stage in social history (until quite recently) opinions were less monolithic than they are now. Maugham told his nephew Robin Maugham that he thought homosexual partnerships didn’t really work, though he clung to his flawed relationship out of loneliness.

          • Andrew Dowling

            “it is a very different kind of wordliness”

            As in . . caring about the state of the world and the lowliest in it? What a betrayal of the Gospel that is!

          • Jack Haggerty

            It remains to be seen if progressive Christians can do as good a job in caring for the sick and the dying as Christians did in former times. Think of the sisters or nuns in Catholic Europe working without a penny in the hospitals for the incurables. Think of Jeanne Jugan the poor girl from Brittany who grew up in the shadow of the French Revolution and founded the Little Sisters of the Poor. Jeanne saw a blind, homeless old woman begging in the streets and took her into the convent; a great religious order that cares for the dispossessed was begun that day and continues even now. Or think of William Booth who formed the Salvation Army. He heard about a homeless child who froze to death in the streets of London. William Booth would have opposed gay adoption in the strongest of terms.

      • Poor Christians. They are so persecuted in Western society. Oh, for the days of the Inquisition when the church was welcome in the public forum.

        • Jack Haggerty

          I am not saying persecution has arrived full swing. A deep resentment against Christianity is in the air. A leading gay activist in the USA said churches which do not conform to society’s new laws will face closure. As for the Inquisition, criminals in Spanish prisons used to petition the authorities and ask to be rehoused in the Inquisition jails. These jails were cushier than the criminal penitentiaries. Inquisition officials were careerists. Ambition rather than religious ideology motivated them. Stalin murdered more people in 1933 than the entire number murdered under the Inquisition, dreadful though it certainly was.

          • Nobody is closing U.S. churches for being bigoted, what a silly notion; nor will they in the future. Churches can be just as discriminatory as they please. It is public institutions in America that cannot legally discriminate, not religious institutions.

            As for your thoughts about the Inquisition, wow. It certainly doesn’t say much for an institution if the best thing you can say about it is “it’s better than Stalin.”

          • Jack Haggerty

            The leading gay activist said ‘We will close churches which disagree with us.’ It is a fair bet this will happen in the United Kingdom within the next 10 years; I can’t speak for the USA. However Erick Erickson said: ‘There will be no accommodation between gay rights activists and those seeking religious freedom to opt out of the gay rights movement. Gay rights activists demand tolerance for their life style, but will not tolerate those who choose to adhere to their religious beliefs.’ On the other hand, Ross Douthat said: ‘Call me a Pollyanna but I believe we can have equality for gays and lesbians AND religious freedom.’ As for the Inquisition being better than Stalin, George Orwell loathed both Rome and Moscow. Hilaire Belloc, on the other hand, said, ‘Europe is the faith, the faith is Europe.’

          • What “leading gay activist”? In the your earlier comment, you said he/she was in the U.S. – Nobody is closing churches in the U.S. for discrimination – what a ridiculous notion. All churches discriminate, if only to hire pastors of the same religion as their congregants.

            It wasn’t that long ago that businesses all over the southern USA were “opting out” of the civil rights movement, by refusing service to black men and women. Their reasons were religious, too.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I will find the name if I can locate the book. I am not telling any lies. Churches here in Britain will be closed if ministers preach that certain sexual acts are sinful. The gay lobby studied the civil rights movement and it has been a brilliant success. They won. All credit to them for their organising genius. Call me silly or any other name you care to. I can see that progressives become ugly and belligerent when they listen to someone who disagrees with them. I am not afraid of the world’s enmity. Christ said ‘men will hate you for my sake.’

          • The only ugliness and belligerence I see here is from the man who accused gay men of pederasty. I’ve lost all respect for you. I’m finished with you.

          • Jack Haggerty

            As I said in my above reply to Mr Dowling, pederasty (sexual relations between an older and a ‘passive’ younger man) is as widespread in the homosexual world as the culture of teenage prostitution is in the heterosexual world. There is one difference. Young men and women are trapped in prostitution. But the homosexual activity in British parks at night is voluntary. Hampstead Heath at night is notorious. All this reflects on the instability of the homosexual world, an instability recognised by writers from Wilde to Tennessee Williams. Progressives are strange people. They want to believe in the limitless possibilities of life. Gay couples want to adopt? Let them. Where’s the harm? Babies and toddlers will thrive, won’t they? Children don’t need mothers. Daddy and Daddy are quite sufficient. As for the little boy growing up with a sexual identity problem, that’s just the kind of bogey cultural conservatives like Haggerty are likely to raise. We are sick people, aren’t we, Beaux, those of us who wish to hold on to such redundant concepts as motherhood and the Christian belief in the family? Away with us. Let your brave new world reign supreme. Malcolm Muggeridge in the 1980s was saying Western civilization was over. I thought him a trifle premature. Now I know old Muggeridge was our prophet. Christian society is dead in all but name. Ask not for whom the bell tolls.

          • Andrew Dowling

            Erick Erickson is a clown.

          • Jack Haggerty

            I have just looked up Erick Erickson on Wiki and I shuddered at the things he has said, not to speak of some of his actions. He is a representative of the new barbarism. I am ashamed I ever quoted him. It was a statement of Erickson’s I found in Paul Nyquist’s book ‘Prepare’. Mr Nyquist is president of the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. I have just watched a YouTube documentary on the Moody Institute. I hope to God no one there is using Erickson as a role model. Give me the Patheos progressives any day.

          • Andrew Dowling

            “A leading gay activist in the USA said churches which do not conform to society’s new laws will face closure.”

            In other equally relevant news, a blue shaggy monster exclaimed that C is for cookie, and that was good enough for him.

          • Jack Haggerty

            You may be right in thinking of me as an alarmist, Mr Dowling. Your point about the blue shaggy monster is quite witty. But consider. In the Epistles we hear that the sexually immoral will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Adulterers, fornicators, practising homosexuals (I stress ‘practising’: the homosexual orientation in itself is not sinful) – all of these and many more sinners are called to repentance in the name of Jesus Christ. Am I being alarmist in suggesting that preachers may one day be forbidden from espousing such ‘hateful’ and ‘anti-social’ ideas? A British nurse got into serious bother after telling a patient she would pray for her. The nurse was suspended for quite some time. In my youth atheists would laugh when Christers brought up the subject of prayer. ‘You can pray for me all you like but it won’t do any good,’ atheists would say with a smile. The mood today has hardened. Street preachers in Edinburgh and Glasgow have been arrested. And this in a nation in which the Bible once held the very highest place. No wonder the Chinese are fascinated by the collapse of Christian belief in Europe. It is momentous.

  • Andrew Dowling

    Olson is clearly an intelligent guy and he even shows flashes of “getting it” as above, but in my interactions with him he takes criticism like a 12 year old child and if you poke at any of the tenets he considers “orthodox” he makes snide dismissive remarks and then essentially asks you to take your ball and go home.

    Since Olson regularly deals with a bunch of Calvinist loons, in his mind he’s the open-minded intellectual, but come at him from the left flank and he becomes as insulated as they are.

    • I’ve had the same experience with Olson. He can be a very petty man, and dismisses dissenters with judgements of their personal intentions.

  • R Vogel

    Nice to see Roger quoted here. Although we disagree on much I find much if his writing engaging if not compelling. He is a refreshing counter to the typical string of meaningless tropes and unsupported assertions made by many in the channel he shares.