Democrats Panic Over Anti-Semitic Musings of Freshmen Colleagues

Democrats Panic Over Anti-Semitic Musings of Freshmen Colleagues March 3, 2019

I’ve seen some Democrats really break out the champagne and party favors over what appears to be the internal disintegration of the Republican party.

I can certainly understand why.

With the introduction of vile Trumpism into the bloodstream, like a septic infection, the party of faith, family, and smaller government has been broken.

As the establishment, entrenched Republican power brokers bend whatever vague principles they once claimed to stand on, in order to appease the Trumpian mob, there are actual conservatives that remember the party of Lincoln, Goldwater, Reagan and Buckley. They actually want to make the federal government as inconsequential in the lives of American citizens as possible. They want to move forward with ideas that empower citizens, rather than cede power to an authoritarian state.

Some of them are so devoted to principle and responsible governance that they have rejected Donald Trump, outright, and refuse to bend those principles for a few political wins.

The result is chaos, and Democrats see this as a victory.

Well, not so fast.

Something about people in glass houses…

In the 2018 midterm elections, Democrats saw the backlash against wretched Trumpism, with their party sweeping control of the House to their side, and making gains within the Senate.

It sounds great for them, until you realize that the midterm wave actually washed some crud onto their shores.

Specifically, youthful, ignorant, radical crud.

OH – and anti-Semite crud. Let’s not forget that.

The stench of it has always existed, unspoken, but present, just the same, beneath the surface of every Democrat talking point. It wasn’t until after the midterms, as the freshman class of Democrats settled into their new roles that those 1488 feelings came bursting forth.

The morbidly amusing part is seeing the old guard Democrats quickly try to stuff the ugly truth back into the closet.

Back in January, Palestinian-American Congresswoman Rashid Tlaib, of Michigan became a cheerleader for the BDS movement (Boycott, Divest, Sanction), which seeks to label our Mideast allies, Israel, as an apartheid state, and punish them.

Anyone actually familiar with what really goes on in Israel, and not eaten up by anti-Semitic idiocy knows that BDS is just another way to express that hate of the Jewish people.

When anti-BDS legislation was introduced to the House in January, Tlaib suggested that those representatives supporting the legislation had forgotten what country they represented.

She was quickly called out by various U.S. Jewish groups.

The Anti-Defamation League released a statement in response to Tlaib’s tweet: “Representative Tlaib’s tweet regarding the pending bill on the Senate floor has been interpreted by some as suggesting that Jews or Members of Congress, such as the sponsors of the bill, are more loyal to Israel than to their own country,” the organization said. “Whether or not this was her intent, this type of language is deeply problematic.”

Yes, it is, but not a foreign feeling to so many within the Democrat party.

Representative Ilhan Omar, a Somali-American Democrat out of Minnesota, can’t keep a lid on her anti-Semitism. Every week she seems to pop out another hateful remark that sends her Democrat colleagues scrambling.

Omar wrote in since deleted tweets earlier this month that U.S. politicians’ defense of Israel’s was “all about the Benjamins baby,” while adding that AIPAC was funding lawmakers who criticized her stance.

Top Democrat lawmakers demanded she apologize, and she did, but she’s up to about three or four apologies, at this point, and to be perfectly blunt, if she’s browbeat into apologizing that many times, it’s because she doesn’t really mean them.

Like Tlaib, she accuses those who speak up against her anti-Semitism of having “dual loyalty,” as well as hypocrisy for their choice of organizations to target, while treating the relationship between the U.S. and Israel as a hands-off subject.

“I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is O.K. for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country,” she said during an event at a Washington bookstore, according to The New York Times.

She went on to question why it was acceptable for her to criticize the influence of the NRA, fossil fuel industries and other special interest groups but not the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Lawmakers balked, and some called out Omar.

Rep. Nita Lowey, of New York spoke out on Sunday.

Lowey tweeted Saturday that Omar has a tendency to “mischaracterize” support for Israel from American lawmakers.

“Lawmakers must be able to debate w/o prejudice or bigotry,” she wrote. “I am saddened that Rep. Omar continues to mischaracterize support for Israel. I urge her to retract this statement and engage in further dialogue with the Jewish community on why these comments are so hurtful.”

Omar shot back:

“Our democracy is built on debate, Congresswoman! I should not be expected to have allegiance/pledge support to a foreign country in order to serve my country in Congress or serve on committee. The people of the 5th elected me to serve their interest. I am sure we agree on that!” the first-year Rep. tweeted.

“I have not mischaracterized our relationship with Israel, I have questioned it and that has been clear from my end.”

Anyone who thinks the relationship is anything other than support for the only truly functional and free democracy in the Mideast, as well as the duty to defend a smaller nation of people, surrounded by people who want them wiped from the face of the earth is twisted by something beyond just a lack of knowledge.

Omar continued to argue that she finds it problematic that she is called anti-American if she is not pro-Israel.

“Being opposed to Netanyahu and the occupation is not the same as being anti-Semitic,” she added. “I am grateful to the many Jewish allies who have spoken out and said the same.”

It’s not an occupation. It’s their home. Just calling it an “occupation” belies her twisted bias and hate.

Lowey further addressed Omar:

“No member of Congress is asked to swear allegiance to another country,” she tweeted. “Throughout history, Jews have been accused of dual loyalty, leading to discrimination and violence, which is why these accusations are so hurtful.”

House Foreign Affairs Committee Democrat member, Eliot Engle, of New York further condemned Omar’s remarks as anti-Semitic.

He was right to do so.

Omar has opted to play the wide-eyed innocent – rather than what we know her to be – and says she meant no harm.

She did.

She even promised to spend some time studying the history of anti-Semitism.

She won’t.

So why is this all so troublesome for Democrats?

By overwhelming numbers, the American Jewish community has supported Democrat politicians and policies.

They’re another voting bloc, like the female vote, the African American vote, the LGBTQ vote, and so on. The Democrats see them as an important cog in the Democrat machine, and they’d hate to lose that support, simply because some of their newly minted comrades were just a little too real and open with their truth.

I’ll admit, this Democrat in-fighting is satisfying. Some of them were sitting a little too tall on their high horse, and they needed to be reminded that both sides have mutants within their ranks. Between socialists and these raging hate-beasts, the Democrats aren’t looking like the party of American idealism and calm resolve.

Not in the least.

The concerning part, however, is for the rest of us, who see the nightmare with both major parties, and wonder how we will save our country from the coming ruin.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Alpha 1

    Hi, actual Jew here! Criticizing Israel isn’t antisemitic. It doesn’t represent Jews because half of us don’t live there! Israel is a reactionary ethnostate that rules over millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, and it controls their movement, demolishes their homes, and denies them the same rights as the Israeli settlers who seize their land. It deserves the criticism it gets. BDS isn’t antisemitic either; it’s a nonviolent resistance movement started by Palestinians as a way to peacefully pressure Israel to grant them equal rights and allow Palestinian refugees to return home. If you think violence from Palestinians is wrong, and so is nonviolent opposition like BDS, then the only option left for them is to accept their subjugation and dispossession.

    Finally, criticizing the pro-Israel lobby in America isn’t antisemitic any more than criticizing the lobbyists for Gulf Monarchies is anti-Muslim. Beyond that, the American pro-Israel movement is largely made up two kinds of people: foreign policy ghouls who like having Israel as an American client state, and evangelical Zionists. Evangelical Zionists’ views can be summarized as a nightmarish fusion of colonialism, antisemitism, and end times insanity. The idea behind evangelical Zionism is that Jews all leave our homes and move to Israel and the West Bank to displace Palestinians and fulfill Christian prophecy. Once enough of us do that Jesus will come back to end the world and we’ll all convert to Christianity and/or die, depending on who you ask. Either way, the Jewish and Palestinian people will both cease to exist! Saying that lobbyists use money to lobby is not antisemitic. Trying to orchestrate the end of the Jewish people is, and that’s the goal of a lot of pro-Israel lobbyists.

    Accusations of antisemitism are used in bad faith by conservatives to distract from the fact that right wingers in Europe and North America have all decided that “globalists” and “Soros” are sending immigrants to destroy their glorious pure nations. As a Jew, I think that fighting antisemitism means creating a world where Jews can live in our homes without fear, not a world where we all move to Israel. That means leftists like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are my allies in the fight for equality and justice, not the cowards and imperialists in the democratic party or the bigots and xenophobes of the right. But if you’re really worried about antisemitism, start with Benjamin Netanyahu: He’s allying himself with the Republicans in America, Viktor Orban in Hungary, and the Saudis in the middle east to form an antisemitic legion of doom.

  • captcrisis

    Do you have any appreciation of where Tlaib is coming from? Do you know what is happening to Palestinians under Israeli rule? Would you expect an Irish American politician in 1850 to say nice things about Great Britain?

  • IllinoisPatriot

    It’s clear EXACTLY where Tlaib is coming from. She’s wrapped in in the same hatred, bigotry, anti-semitism and religious intolerance that characterizes ISIS and the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden and so many other Muslims. Her rhetoric against Israel may have come straight from Malcolm X – it has the same hysterical, unreasonable hatred expressed in it as he and Farrakan and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have toward whites whenever a black man is found guilty of murdering a white person. Unfortunately, UNLIKE the race hustlers that are silent about black-on-black killings, Tlaib openly praises her “allies” from the Jewish community that express anti-Israel feelings. At least the race hustlers don’t active praise and encourage black-on-black killings (although the BLM support for cop-killers came close).

    BTW: There is no such recognized nationality as “Palestinian”. The concept of “Palestine” is one that Muslims that have fled (or been kicked out of) other Muslim countries would like to build on the ashes of Israel and that has been popularized by the BDS (anti-semite) group via social media. I defy you to point to the country of “Palestine” on a map.

    Your reference to “Palestine” above can only mean the anti-Israel Muslims that are fomenting riots and unrest within the nation of Israel – the same Muslims that riot and murder in the name of Mohammed. The correct name for these people is “Israel’s internal terrorists” that Israel chooses to tolerate rather than systematically destroy as the so-called “Palestinians” would not hesitate to destroy Israelis.

    The attitude and snide remarks, as well as the anti-semitic comments of Tlaib are virtually identical to the BDS rhetoric being spouted on college and university campuses across the country. Her comments might well be lifted from virtually any anti-Israel Muslim “cleric” or “Imam” that has been a guest on far-left-wing TV opinion shows. It is pure anti-semitism – not all that different from the rantings of the NAZIs or from Hitler himself during Hitler’s “final solution”. Both (the Hitler rhetoric and Tlaib’s rhetoric) have as their final objective the removal of US support for and the eradication of the entire Jewish ethnicity and the eradication of the nation of Israel.

  • captcrisis

    In other words, your answers to my questions are “no”, “no” and “yes”. The usual conservative’s inability to walk a mile in another’s shoes.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    In other words, Tlaib is clearly putting the teachings of hatred for all Jews that come from her Mosque above her Oath of Office to the people of the US and above her (adopted) country, calling into question her own loyalty to the US and her own sense of justice or civility.

    She does not have to say “nice things” about the US. She DOES however have to refrain from openly denigrating and showing open disdain for our allies, our trading partners, the demonstrated friendship between our countries in her official role as a national leader, and to refrain from openly wishing destruction on a country that was originally set up (by the UK, the US and our allies) as a refuge for the Jews from both Hitler and the 1930 Muslim clerics world-wide who were clearly attempting to wipe them from the face of the Earth.

    She COULD opt to simply keep her mouth shut or to express her concerns behind closed doors, but chooses instead to mirror and give credence to the BDS rhetoric instead – only at a national level. Next thing we know, she’ll be defending ISIS and agitating to export all Gitmo detainees to Israel or Milwaulkee as simply “mis-understood refugees”….

    As to what’s happening to “Palesinians” under “Israeli rule”, yes – they are being treated as the terrorists they are. The Muslims under “Israeli rule” are being treated no differently than the Jews under “Israeli rule” – ie: as full and free citizens of the country. The differentiation between “Muslime” and “Palestinians” here is that the Muslims are not the ones killing the Israeli police and soldiers nor are the Muslims the ones bombing schools and hospitals. The Muslims are not the ones shooting rockets into the country from just outside their borders and are not the ones rioting in the streets. Those actions are being taken by the “Palestinians” – the self-selected segment of the Muslim population that is openly attempting to destroy the nation of Israel from the inside via sabotage, violence, and intimidation out of their religious bigotry and hatred for Jews in general.

    The real question here is do YOU know where Tlaib is coming from and what her motivations are ?

  • RebeccaSusanWright

    I have no appreciation for anti-Semitic, Jew-hating scumbags. She’s pushing a lie, just as you are.
    I’m going to take a guess that you’ve never actually been to Israel, nor studied the ACTUAL history.
    Thanks for checking in, though.

  • JASmius

    This is another one of those instances where a great deal of hoopla is made about something that isn’t surprising in the least. Omar and Tlaib are Muslims and emigres from the Middle East. It would thus be astonishing if they were not Democrats in a domestic American political context, and utterly flabbergasting if they were not raving anti-Semites, emboldened to be honest about it given their election to high office. The only remarkable thing might have been that their unhelpful candor wasn’t addressed in their congressional orientation three months ago, but even that is less than unexpected since they give caustic voice to sentiments that most Democrats implicitly share to one extent or another. Their Stars of David are about as deep as the kitty pool at Munchkin Land.

    We’ll know if and when Donk Party leadership is truly serious about corking up Omar’s and Tlaib’s Jew-hating verbal incontinence when Nancy Pelosi pulls her fundraising support from them to horse-collar them into line. That, of course, would run afoul of the Democrat “diversity” fetish, though, and I’m pretty sure minorities and even feminists rank higher on the leftwingnut identity politics totem pole than do the “Jooooooos”. But in the mean time, it gives white Democrats a unique opportunity to insincerely virtue-signal.

  • captcrisis

    Not a Christian viewpoint.
    I’m going to guess you don’t know any Palestinians.

  • JASmius

    You mean enjoying more freedom and a higher standard of living than any other “Palestinian” on Earth, provided that they don’t try to rabidly murder the closest Jews they can plunge a knife into? Yeah, what an “oppressed” existence. Why don’t you send ’em a pallet of potatoes? I’m sure they’d be grateful.

  • chemical

    Anti-Israel isn’t the same as hating Jews. There are Jewish folks who don’t live in Israel and Israelis who aren’t Jewish. Matter of fact, Israel is only 75% Jewish. Tlaib’s and Omar’s comments aren’t seen as anti-Semitic to most of us on the left, including the Jewish ones. Furthermore, Jewish-Muslim animosity only exists within Israel, and that’s almost all Israel’s fault. In the 2016 Dem primary, most American Muslims voted for Sanders! He even pulled off a stunning upset in Michigan because he had a lot of support from Muslim communities there.

    As far as Israel’s history: They start a bunch of fights in the Middle East, then hide behind America when Islamic nations counter. We’re the ones that wind up with a bloody nose whenever they get themselves in trouble, and frankly I’m sick and tired of being used as a shield. Their government is corrupt (Bibi just got indicted, good riddance) and irresponsible, and the nation would have collapsed by now if we hadn’t bailed them out a billion times. Our alliance with Israel costs us more than it helps us.

  • JASmius

    Fun fact: The term “Palestine” originated in the second century A.D. after Jerusalem was sacked and burned by Titus’s Roman legions and the Israelite inhabitants either massacred or scattered.throughout the ancient world. After that uprising, the Romans sought to completely erase the Jewish identity of the Holy Land and renamed it after the ethnic group that had historically been an enemy, rival, and pain in the keister to the Jews down through the centuries: the Philistines. “Palestine” was the Romanization of that name. One could say that Israel was the victim of the “colonial oppressors” of that time.

    ‘nother fun fact: Not only is there no nation of “Palestine,” there is no such ethnicity, either. It’s an entirely fictional construct, designed and intended for use of the people so designated as pawns by the Arab powers after Israel’s restoration as a nation. Which, in turn, is a redundant reason why we know that “Palestinian” jihadism is Islamically inspired.

    Fun fact #3: Under the original Balfour Declaration, all of Israel, including the West Bank and Gaza Strip, was designated as the Jewish homeland, and what is today known as Jordan (known then as “Trans-Jordan,” for being the land on the other side of the Jordan River”) was designated as the homeland for what would today be called the “Palestinians”. Unfortunately for them, the Hashemites were imported to rule over them, denying them self-rule. Not that the Jews would have noticed much of a difference. So if the goal of Middle East “peace” policy is a “two-state solution,” the Jordan River is its actual line of demarcation.

  • Polarbearpapa

    3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with

    contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.”

    Genesis 12

    8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and

    foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through

    you.”

    Galatians 3

    I prefer to put my hope in an Loving and Caring God who promises that He will bless those who bless…and curse those who curse…

    The lies and deceptions perpetrated by the Fakeistinians have brought their curses towards the Israelites back upon them …

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Yes – the sneak attacks on Israel that started the 6-day war were quite ingenious plays by Israel…..

    You say that Jewish-Muslim animosity only exists within Israel. It’s a good thing the Iranians and ISIS don’t hate Israel – otherwise they might start referring to Israel as the “Little Satan”… Perhaps you have a different (non-religion-based) reason why the so-called “Palestinians” continue to make rocket attacks against Isreal ? Why Egypt, the UAE and the Saudis took so long to make peace with Israel ? Why it took Israel kicking their military butts to bring them to the peace table ? Perhaps you can explain the Iranian and ISIS (even the US-based Imam rhetoric that continues to call for Israel to be wiped off the planet if not “animosity OUTSIDE of Israel” ?

    Since Israel is a nation and not a concentration camp, there’s no requirement for all Jews to live in Israel. Not all Americans live in the US either, so I’m not quite sure what your point is with the percentages. We all admit that Israel allows Muslims to live among them with equal rights under the law so expecting Israel to be 100% Jewish is rediculous – unlike say — oh — about every Arab nation in the ME that’s north of 95% Arab citizenship. I guess you SHOULD say that compared to Arab nations, Israel is downright “diverse” – both ethnically and religiously. I thought those of you on the left approved of diversity…..

    As far as Israel’s history, they’ve been attacked without reason or cease ever since their formation after WW2. During the Gulf War, Israel received MANY attacks from Iraq, but never returned fire – they honored the request of the US and our allies not to aggravate the situation, so suffered casualties and damage without returning fire. Name any Arab country that has done the same (receive damage and suffer terrorist casualties without fighting back)….

    It’s no surprise that Israel-hating Jews exist. We hear from America-hating US citizens all the time – they are usually members of the far-left Socialist and Communist, SJW or highly-racist varieties.

    Your historical revisions need to be revised. The ones you floated here no longer fly.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    I predict that if Pelosi does not “horse-collar” them (as you say), the centrist Democrat voters will start abandoning the Democrat party in the same way and for the same reasons that Conservatives abandoned the GOP when Trump’s populist/progressive takeover started.

    The GOP thinks they can “recover” their voters (women and suburbia especially), but I doubt it. The Democrats will find their voters defecting in the same way – workers that still believe Democrats support labor unions and that labor unions still hold a valid purpose in the workforce will be faced with a party that runs on abortion, restriction of religious freedoms, socialism, higher taxes and more give-aways to illegals and those choosing not to work. They will be faced with a party where racism and sexual risk (for both male and females) will be the norm and where skin color and religious beliefs become more significant factors in job-hunting than merit or experience. — Yeah – that will go over really well among the Democrat blue-collar working base.

  • chemical

    You say that Jewish-Muslim animosity only exists within Israel. It’s a good thing the Iranians and ISIS don’t hate Israel…

    Of course Iran hates Israel. Israel tried to get the United States to bomb Iran off the map. Iran is part of a Shi’a axis of power in the region; anger one Shi’a and you tend to get all the rest for free.

    Re: paragraph 3. Israel IS more diverse than many middle east nations, and one of the reasons for that is they’re not an Islamic theocracy. That’s an admirable thing, but they still shouldn’t treat their Arab and Muslim citizens like they are 2nd class. My point is, being anti-Semitic and criticizing Israel are 2 separate things.

    The way I see Israel is that they’re insulated from their own failures. By blindly and unflinchingly helping them, we have created a situation where they don’t feel like they have to play nice with their neighbors any more. They say “My way or the highway”, and if you don’t like it then they pay AIPAC to convince America to invade your country. Did other countries take cheap shots at them in the past? Sure, whatever, not disputing that. But they don’t resolve any issues that they actually had which led to the cheap shots in the first place. Nobody — not even Islamic theocracies — just attack Israel for fun.

    But seriously — why the rabid defense of Israel’s actions? Why label any criticism of Israel as anti-American?

  • IllinoisPatriot

    You now say:

    Of course Iran hates Israel. Israel tried to get the United States to bomb Iran off the map. Iran is part of a Shi’a axis of power in the region; anger one Shi’a and you tend to get all the rest for free.

    but you also said (above) [emphasis mine]:

    Tlaib’s and Omar’s comments aren’t seen as anti-Semitic to most of us on the left, including the Jewish ones. Furthermore, Jewish-Muslim animosity only exists within Israel, and that’s almost all Israel’s fault.

    Both cannot be true. If the animosity ONLY exists within Israel, your subsequent statement would imply that you believe Iran is now a component of Israel, a fact the rest of us would dispute.

    Somehow, decades of Democrat attempts to “negotiate” a “peace deal” between the terrorists in the Gaza Strip and the Nation of Israel failed because the terrorists refused to come to the peace table. Israel was willing to give a variety of concessions, but the so-called “Palestinians” (aka “Hezbollah” – a terrorist faction without a country) kept moving the goal posts, constantly increasing their demands before they would consider negotiating, then (when negotiations eventually DID occur) violating the cease-fires by launching first-strikes into Israel from the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights.

    Yet Israel has been able to maintain peace treaties with Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE for decades without incident. Even having friendly relations and cooperation on trade and even (limited) mutual defense agreements.

    Israel does not seem to be the aggressor here. Israel is not launching rockets into the Gaza Strip. Israel is not sending suicide bombers into Gaza. Israel is not using human shields (school buildings and hospitals) to hide their armaments from Gaza authorities.

    Where Israel is wrong, I will criticize it – WHEN PROOF EXISTS. I will NOT criticize ANY country based on propaganda and unproven assertions from terrorist organizations. I will NOT criticize ANY country based on radicalism imported from nations with which we are currently in conflict.

    The US is not blindly doing anything with Israel. We import as much technology from them as we export to them. They successfully used our Patriot anti-missile systems to protect against SCUD missiles during the Iraq war and as their part of the agreement, they did not attack Iraq or other Muslim nations to inflame the conflict or drive wedges between our coalitions.

    We do not NEED to repurpose NASA to make Israel “feel better about themselves” as Obama did for the Muslims. Israel is already recognized as a western technological country that trades with us as equals.

    You ask why the “rabid defense” of Israel. I ask you why the cheap shots at one of our few reliable allies in the ME ? Why the revisionist history and conflicting postings ? Why the animosity toward Isreal ? Are they not allowed a defense or someone to set the record straight on their behalf ? Why do you insist on slandering Israel ? Why do you insist that the world’s problems are the fault of the Jooooossssss ?

    Is it because that is the position of the far-left SJWs that has been adopted by the Socialist Democrat Party ? (Before you object to the capitalization of the adjective I’ve added to “Democrat Party”, consider the open political positions of AOC, Tlaib, Bernie Sanders and many other of your “leaders”, then consider that Bill DeBlasio is ALSO a Democrat (and an open communist).

    Just be careful that people do not start confusing the term “Socialist Democrat Party” with “Democratic Socialists” or “National Democratic Socialist Party” (aka NAZI).

  • chemical

    Both cannot be true. If the animosity ONLY exists within Israel, your subsequent statement would imply that you believe Iran is now a component of Israel, a fact the rest of us would dispute.

    Yeah, it’s a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said something like “Jewish-Muslim animosity only exists in regards to Israel”. It’s not like it’s something baked into the DNA of Jews and Muslims to hate each other. If they’re fighting, it’s probably over Israel. That doesn’t change the fact that Israel tried to get the US to bomb Iran off the map.

    Also, Hezbollah is a bunch of jerks, and the world would be better off if they either died or surrendered. But there is a reason why they exist in the first place. –Just out of curiosity, why do you think a group of people turn to terrorism or support terrorists in the first place?

    I knew that Israel negotiated some good faith agreements with their neighbors, particularly Egypt and Jordan. So I know they can get along with Muslim nations. Don’t get me wrong here — I don’t think they are responsible for EVERYTHING wrong with the Middle East. But I do think their behavior could be a LOT better than what it is. Of course, our own behavior regarding the region could be a lot better than what it is, too.

    Well, you did change my mind on this: I still think, at least as far as the Israeli government goes, that they’re a pack of jerks. But then again, so is everyone else in the region, to the point where they support terrorists (Islamic regimes, not Israelis). The thing is, in order to get everyone to stop being a pack of jerks, someone has to stop being a jerk first — and Israel, being our staunchest ally in the region, should step up to the plate.

  • Alpha 1

    Hi, Canadian Jew here! Criticizing Israel isn’t antisemitic. It doesn’t represent Jews because half of us don’t live there! Israel is a reactionary ethnostate that rules over millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, and it controls their movement, demolishes their homes, and denies them the same rights as the Israeli settlers who seize their land. It deserves the criticism it gets. BDS isn’t antisemitic either; it’s a nonviolent resistance movement started by Palestinians as a way to peacefully pressure Israel to grant them equal rights and allow Palestinian refugees to return home. If you think violence from Palestinians is wrong, and so is nonviolent opposition like BDS, then the only option left for them is to accept their subjugation and dispossession.

    Finally, criticizing the pro-Israel lobby in America isn’t antisemitic any more than criticizing the lobbyists for Gulf Monarchies is anti-Muslim. Beyond that, the American pro-Israel movement is largely made up two kinds of people: foreign policy creeps who like having Israel as an American client state, and evangelical Zionists. Evangelical Zionists’ views can be summarized as a nightmarish fusion of colonialism, antisemitism, and end times insanity. The idea behind evangelical Zionism is that Jews all leave our homes and move to Israel and the West Bank to displace Palestinians and fulfill Christian prophecy. Once enough of us do that Jesus will come back to end the world and we’ll all convert to Christianity and/or die, depending on who you ask. Either way, the Jewish and Palestinian people will both cease to exist! Saying that lobbyists use money to lobby is not antisemitic. Trying to orchestrate the end of the Jewish people is, and that’s the goal of a lot of pro-Israel evangelicals.

    Accusations of antisemitism are used in bad faith by conservatives to distract from the fact that right wingers in Europe and North America have all decided that “globalists” and “Soros” are sending immigrants to destroy their glorious pure nations. As a Jew, I think that fighting antisemitism means creating a world where Jews can live in our homes without fear, not a world where we all move to Israel. That means leftists like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are my allies in the fight for equality and justice, not the cowards and imperialists in the democratic party or the bigots and xenophobes of the right.

  • Alpha 1

    All nations are constructs, including Israel. Palestinian national identity is as legitimate as American, Ukrainian, Pakistani, or Israeli national identity. I’m Jewish, and the creation of Israel did to the Palestinians what the Romans once did to us. Jewish liberation can not come from adopting the vices of our oppressors, and it can not come through the dispossession of another people.

  • Alpha 1

    I’m Jewish, I’ve been to Israel, I know our history, and because of that I know that evangelical zionists and the far right movements they support aren’t my friends. Fighting antisemitism means creating a world where we can live in our homes without fear or persecution It doesn’t mean creating a world where we serve as a settler population who exist to fulfill christian prophecy. Stop using us as a cudgel.

  • Alpha 1

    Yes, Palestinians suffer because they incurred the wrath of god. It’s definitely not because they got their land taken by the British to create a second Ulster in the middle east.

  • Alpha 1

    Fighting for equality for Palestinians isn’t antisemitic, and neither is criticizing lobbyists for lobbying. What is antisemitic is the evangelical christian fantasy where Jews all convert to Christianity or die when Jesus comes back. If you want to fight antisemitism, start there.

  • Fmontyr

    I see many long-winded comments about this matter. I’ll just address mine to Susan Wright concerning her attitude as she has shown in this piece. She has an obvious bias which falls within the influence circle of Likud Party Charter, AIRPAC, Sheldon and Miriam Adleson, and others of the far right who will never allow justice for the Palestinians.

    Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar represent 0.46% of the 435 House members and they are justified in having a point of view which is not the monolithic view of the House which is overwhelming pro-Israel. Susan referred to the two as youthful, ignorant, radical crud. Surely she is better than that! If she does not recognize all the hatred and destruction caused by the state of Israel, then she has no soul. Susan, no doubt, must be immensely proud of the role of the Colonists and the United States in the slaughter of Native Americans, robbing them of their lands and livelihoods, forcing them to live in compounds, and trying to mind-wash their children of the Indian ways. Likewise, Susan seems immensely proud of the manner in which the Israelis have treated the Palestinians. There is apartheid in Israel! People have the perfect right to object. Carry on Rashid and Ilhan!

  • Alpha 1

    You’re never going to get a good faith response to this question. Right wingers know their entire movement has been consumed by bigotry, but instead of confronting it they’re getting giddy for a chance to go “NO U!!!” to the left over a manufactured crisis and scaremonger about Muslims. Rest assured, once this is done they’ll go right back to ranting about how “Soros” and “culutral marxists” are out to get them.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    You seem to have trouble choosing your words. You first sound like an SJW radical, then when proven wrong or challenged, you have a “poor word choice” moment and back off. Silly me – I thought you were a “reasonable lefty”. Was I wrong ?

    As to being a “pack of jerks” is Israel’s fight for survival any less valid than the Arab Muslim fight for the genocide of all Jews ? If so, why does the right to commit genocide supersede the right of the victims to live ? …. or do you contest the multiple calls of Muslim Imams (both in the ME and in the US) for the total eradication of all Jews ?

    I’ve seen Israel attempt to “step up to the plate” on several occasions – examples include the willingness to sit with US negotiators on just about EVERY attempt at negotiating a deal during the past 2 decades.

    Israel has made SEVERAL concessions to the Arabs in their attempts to create a peace treaty. EVERY concession made by Israel is “accepted” by the Arabs, then the negotiations are terminated (or ignored as evidenced by the next rocket attacks) and the peace is gone once more.

    The only two concessions that Israel has refused to make in the name of “peace” are either the total extinction of the Jewish ethnicity or the surrender of strategic high ground from which the Arab terrorists have demonstrated the ability to launch rockets and gunfire into Israeli cities and residential areas.

    Turns out the only “peace” the Arabs will accept with Israel is the “peace of the dead”. You are welcome to go back and review the history of the US-mediated “peace talks” from as early as Jimmy Carter’s term in office and you’ll see numerous refusals of the Arabs to even come to the table unless Israel first disarms or gives up strategic ground that they took in the 6-day war and hold to this day for their own self-defense.

    Since you are so willing to deny Israel the protection of US forces and you seem unwilling to allow them to defend themselves, just how long do you believe the Arabs will allow Israel to exist once they give up their strategic high ground and stop responding to terrorist attacks ? Do not terrorists see lack of aggression as “weakness” ? How do you think they would see lack of response to their attacks ?

    Are you REALLY willing or trying to justify the genocide of the entire Jewish ethnicity as the Arabs are demanding ? (“ALL Jews must die” – not just those in Israel.)

  • IllinoisPatriot

    What does this have to do with religious beliefs ?

    Your radical Atheism and hatred of Christianity are apparently interfering with your reading comprehension.

    At no time have I or anyone else mentioned Christian beliefs or any non-secular reasons (other than the well-advertised Muslim hatred of all Jews, the Muslim goal of genocide for all Jews, and the protection of the inalienable right to life of every individual on this planet – including Jews) for the existence of Israel and the US protection of that country as their homeland.

    Take your SJW posturing and hatred elsewhere. It’s not playing well here.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    The “Paletinians” never held that land, so it could not have been “taken from them”. That land belonged to the British Government as of WW2 and was given to the nation of Israel by the British as a homeland.

    The “Palestinians” that you speak so glowingly of are nothing but the dregs of various Muslim societies and associated pariahs and terrorists that have either been exiled from various ME countries or that have voluntarily left their country due to persecution and now wish to claim the only piece of land in the ME that has not been claimed by the countries that exiled them. It also helps that Israel is situated on some of the choicest land in the ME, thereby further feeding the envy and greed of the so-called “Palestinians” – mythologically a people from a mythical land called “Palestine” that has never existed.

    If I am wrong, it should be EASY for you to point to Palestine on a pre-WW2 map or any other map (the more recent the publication date, the better). If you cannot point to the nation of “Palestine”, then your demonstrated hatred of Jews in your posting here is just more anti-semitism and your claim to BE a Jew above has been proven by your own words (and your use of the term “they” instead of “we” in your post I’m responding to) to be just more anti-semitism and deception.

  • Alpha 1

    Luv to be called a fake Jew by a christian because I don’t support a country I don’t live in. This is the galaxy brain version of antisemitism: Jews aren’t all loyal to Israel, but we should be.

  • Alpha 1

    Evangelical Christians make up the largest pro-Israel bloc in America, and their support for Israel is based around an elaborate colonial project to end the Jewish people and destroy the world. If you’re really worried about dangerous religious beliefs, and not just looking for an excuse to hate and fear Muslims, you should oppose Evangelicals’ doomsday plot at home.

  • RebeccaSusanWright

    Hang on. I started reading this, then I realized I’d better slap on a swastika to finish up.
    Sieg Heil!

  • RebeccaSusanWright

    Criticizing, no.
    Insinuating certain things, absolutely yes.

  • RebeccaSusanWright

    Somehow, none of that has the ring of truth.

  • Alpha 1

    Once again, I am called a fake Jew by a Christian because I don’t support a country I don’t live in. You guys can’t help but tell on yourselves.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Read down a bit and you’ll find this guy referring to Jews and to Israel as “they” instead of “we”.

    I agree that he’s most likely not Jewish – likely Atheist from other posts and from his complete disregard for and ignorance of Biblical teachings – teachings that he would have heard in his youth from his parents were he actually a Jew.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Now you’re sounding like a Russian troll – a truly Communist Atheistic and paranoid view of Christianity.

    I’m glad I could trigger you so thoroughly…

  • Alpha 1

    I’m an atheist Jew. Secular Jewish identity is a thing. In fact, most of us are secular. Famous secular Jews include the early zionists who founded Israel, whose views on religion ranged from indifferent to hostile. I refer to Israel as “they” because I’m not Israeli. If you don’t know this, you shouldn’t be talking about who is and isn’t Jewish.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    This guy is pure Q-Anon conspiracy-type…. The more I read of his unhinged postings, the more I realize just how crazy he has become with all his various conspiracy theories to explain and justify his anti-semitism and bigotry…

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Still waiting for you to point to “Palestine” on a map….

  • Alpha 1

    There were times before Italy, Germany, Ukraine, Pakistan and America existed. At best they were names for regions, and you could have made the same argument about how those countries were fake. All nations are constructs, and the Palestinian national identity is as legitimate as Ukrainian, American, German, Italian or Pakistani national identity.

  • Alpha 1

    The things being “insinuated” are all criticisms of lobbyists and christian politicians. Accusations of antisemitism are being used in bad faith as a shield for American foreign policy.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Wow !
    NONE of that jives with documented historical fact. NONE of that represents sanity or any attempt whatsoever to apply the American concepts of tolerance, understanding, decency or truthfulness.

    I’ll make you the same challenge I made to your colleague Alpha1: Show me where to find the nation of Palestine on an official map (from any age) or admit that your references to the mythical people you call “Palestinians” do not actually exist other than as a collection of refugees and terrorists.

    Once you are ready to admit that your vaunted “Palestinians” are nothing more than terrorists, we can address the rest of your nonsense concerning “colonial aspirations” or mistreatment of Native Americans.

    Meanwhile, you need to understand when the anti-semitism is spouted from official US leaders in Congress, it takes on the nature of official US positions on the hatred of an entire ethnicity. Do you mean to attempt to frame the US of A as a hate-country – what Trump would call a sh*t-hole country ? Is that how you see this country from your college campus or high-school alternate-reality class ? Because I can guarantee you that the bulk of Americans do NOT share you views of America or of the Jewish people – a people that have a long and honorable history of their own that has withstood more than any name-calling you can come up with.

  • chemical

    You first sound like an SJW radical, then when proven wrong or challenged, you have a “poor word choice” moment and back off.

    I AM a radical. When your government adopts an extremist ideology, being a moderate is a radical position. The term “SJW” is meaningless. Besides, you convinced me to take a slightly less harsh position in regards to Israel, which means I’ll soften my language somewhat. And I did make a poorly worded statement earlier, that I thought would be clear but apparently you got the idea that I was implying that Iran was part of Israel. So yeah, it was poorly worded, because my intended audience (as in, you) didn’t understand it. My words don’t come from God himself and I’m not infallible.

    As to being a “pack of jerks” is Israel’s fight for survival any less valid than the Arab Muslim fight for the genocide of all Jews?

    THIS RIGHT HERE is why Israel acts like a bunch of jerks. Terrorists aside, it is NOT the goal of Arab Muslims to exterminate all Jews. But there are enough people in Israel that actually believe this baseless conspiracy, and it makes them act like paranoid maniacs. Although Israel does cooperate with some of its Muslim neighbors, it doesn’t negotiate in good faith with others. Or with its Palestinian population.

  • Alpha 1

    The LifeWay poll found that 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ’s return.

    That meshes with a poll conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2003. Pew asked respondents whether the existence of Israel fulfilled biblical prophecy. About a third of Americans said it did — while more than 6 in 10 evangelicals agreed. (So did more than half of black respondents.)

    The LifeWay poll also asked evangelical respondents what factors contribute to their support for the state of Israel. More than 6 in 10 cited God’s pledge to Abraham. The third-most-cited reason was that the existence of Israel was necessary for fulfilling prophecy. More than half of evangelicals said that was a reason they supported Israel’s existence.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/?utm_term=.d30ba8141eb0

  • IllinoisPatriot

    No – those are criticisms of Atheist politicians. Christian politicians have not resided in Washington for over a century now…..

    Atheists just LOVE to pretend to be what they are not – especially if they think it will help them win a debate or discussion…..

    Examples include Senator Warren pretending to be a Cherokee, Bernie Sanders thinking socialism is a viable form of government, Hillary Clinton thinking she’s got leadership potential, Donald Trump thinking he’s a Christian and Nancy Pelosi pretending to be a Catholic…..

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Still waiting for you to point to your “nation of Palestine” on a map.

    Prior to the existence of the countries you mentioned, they were not on a map, but all of them exist on maps today – except the one nation you claim exists but has had land taken away from it – your mythical nation of “Palestine”.

    If your mythical “Palestine” has EVER existed, it will be on a map published at some point in history. All I’m requiring is that you provide a link to such a map that is recognized as official (or historical) so we can all see just how much land was taken and where that land was taken from…..

    When it turns out that your mythical “Palestine” has never actually existed, then your entire argument about Israel “stealing” their land is just so much BS ISIS and Iranian/Hesbollah propaganda.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    So ? What’s your point ? What does a poll of people born decades after the formation of Israel have to do with the anti-semitism expressed by officials of the US Government ?

    Evangelicals believe that Trump is a Christian, but that does not make it so. Evangelicals also beleive that Trump is sent by God to save America but that does not make it so.

    Why do you feel such a need to justify your own hatred and snti-semitism ? Just admit – you simply hate the JOOOOOOOSSSSS ! You are obviously envious of their success and their sense of belonging to a country and to an ethnicity. Perhaps it’s their peace-of-mind and spiritual serenity that you envy so much… I don’t know. Frankly, whatever you are envious of is YOUR problem.

  • mudskipper

    You don’t think Native Americans were mistreated? Seriously?

  • Alpha 1

    Oh, you mean the modern state of Palestine? It claims the territory of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and it’s recognized by over 100 countries. But like the Irish or many Native Americans, the Palestinians had their land taken before the state was established. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were made refugees when they fled from violence or the fear of violence at the hands of nascent Israel. There are Palestinians alive today who lived in what’s now Israel and fled in 1948. Israeli policy after the war was “vae victis”, and they’ve been refugees ever since. By recognizing Israel within its pre-1967 borders, the PLO made a concession of almost 80% of their historic homeland.

    But you don’t really care about that, do you? This is just equivocating between a Palestinian state and the Palestinian people to avoid the fundamental question, which is whether Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians has been moral and just.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Perhaps you’ve not been listening to the rhetoric or news reports from Iran or from Syria or from Iraq. Perhaps you’ve not been listening to the Imams that FOX News has had on their opinion shows – all of which state that the Koran teaches them that ALL JEWS must be killed. before peace can be had in the world.

    Only the Muslims that have deviated from the rabid teachings of the Koran are willing to make peace with Israel and it is necessary to pretty much gut the Muslim religion to establish the conditions for peace with the Jews.

    So far, only a few countries have had the courage and common sense to do that: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (to a much lesser extent).

    The majority of Muslims are still taught in their Mosques that ALL JEWS must be “put to the sword” – at least according to the all Imams I’ve ever seen interviewed on TV. — not entire “baseless”.

    I do not blame the Israelis for taking the Muslims at their word that they want all Jews dead – especially when it is not the CHRISTIANS that are firing rockets into Israel from Lebanon and the Gaza Strip and it was not the CHRISTIANS in Iraq that were firing SCUD missiles into Israel tipped with nerve gas and high-explosive.

    Apparently you DO blame the Israelis and believe that the Israelis should just line up to be beheaded or gassed like good little Jews in German Concentration Camps……

  • IllinoisPatriot

    I believe you’re an Atheist. At that point, your jewish ethnicity becomes meaningless to me or to anyone else (except to the Muslims that would want to kill you for no other reason than your ethnicity).

  • IllinoisPatriot

    I think there was mistreatment both ways – so much so that any attempts at reparations is meaningless. I think there were so many misunderstandings due to cultural clashes and just outright hatred on both sides that atrocities were committed on a routine basis by BOTH sides.

    What’s your point ?

  • Alpha 1

    Susan you implied I wasn’t really Jewish because I don’t support an Israel I don’t live in. You’re complaining about how insinuations of “dual loyalty” even while implying Jews ought to be a pro-Israel hive mind. If you want to oppose antisemitism, start by looking inwards.

  • John225

    Godwins law!

  • Alpha 1

    Thank you, oh benevolent Christian, for telling me I’m not a real Jew. I never would have realized that Jewish identity doesn’t exist at the intersection of culture, religion and ethnicity and is instead about believing the things Christians tell us to believe.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Again, find a published, official map and point to the country of Palestine. The area you describe above (as of WW2 was owned by the British as a protectorate of the Crown. At no time since WW1 was that land area ever granted independence nor was it ever formed into an independent nation. The refugees, nomads and terrorists you laughingly refer to as “Palestinians” have NEVER had “their own country”, nor was the land ever “theirs” to be “taken away”.

    If you disagree, prove otherwise with historical documents showing that land having been “owned” by the nation of “Palestine”. If it was never owned by “Palestine”, it could not have been “taken away” and your entire argument collapses.

    With no Palestinian state there can be no “Palestinian People”. It’s like saying the Atlanteans had had their oceans stolen before they were even able to form their homeland or even one city of Atlantis. Therefore, there MUST be (somewhere) a “race” or “nation” of people that used to live in Atlantis, but were made homeless when the mean old surface-dwellers flooded their country by creating the Atlantic Ocean.

    My point is that there are no Palestinians (alive today or dead and buried) – and there never have been. And you know it – you just don’t want to admit it because it contradicts your entire justification for your anti-semitism.

  • Alpha 1

    So not only am I not Jewish, it turns out Christians aren’t really Christian! Today has been quite the learning experience!

  • IllinoisPatriot

    You are welcome, O malevolent and deluded Atheist.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    As an Atheist, I don’t expect you to comprehend the fundamentals of Christianity.
    As an Atheist, you should at least understand that many people lie about their true faith and pretend to be what they are not. After all, you likely live your life that way…..

    So it goes with politicians – especially the Atheists in the Democrat Party that need to pretend to be Christians in order to get elected. Since they don’t believe in God, they see no issue in PRETENDING to believe in Jesus and in CLAIMING to follow His teachings. That they fail so obviously apparently never occurs to them…..

  • Alpha 1

    The Irish didn’t have a state before they were conquered by the English. Are they an invented people?

  • Alpha 1

    You’re calling me an antisemite at the same time you’re lecturing me on how I’m not really Jewish because I’m an Atheist and don’t support a country I don’t live in. For someone who claims to oppose to antisemitism, you have a lot of contempt for Jews who doesn’t fit your stereotype of an Orthodox Jew who puts Israel at the center of their identity.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Wrong. The Island of Ireland pre-existed English occupation of Northern Ireland and the sourthern portion of the island remains a free and independent country known as “Ireland” today. You might have heard of “Ireland” – it’s the place of origin for Guiness beer and vast number of loyal Americans – also the source of the tradition that gave us “St Patrick’s Day”.

    Still waiting to see a map of “Palestine” and the history of its founding and form of government…..

  • IllinoisPatriot

    No, I simply don’t believe that you are Jewish. Just that you are an Atheist pretending to be Jewish in an attempt to gain (or steal) credibility.

  • Alpha 1

    The island of Ireland predates English rule in the same way the land of Palestine predates British or Israeli rule, but the first kingdom of Ireland was an English puppet state formed in the 16th century. Did the Irish people not exist before that kingdom was established?

  • Alpha 1

    Do you think that atheist Jews who are zionists are Jewish? I do. I think they’re dangerously wrong about nationalism, but I think they’re Jewish.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Now it’s YOU that’s playing semantics.

    OF COURSE the Island predates ANYONE’s rule.

    However, the Irish people have been recognized as a distinct nation for centuries. They have an identifiable culture and genetic characteristics. Your mythical “Palestinians” do not.

    You are trying to slip in your contention that there was ever a “land of Palestine”. That is not true. If it is, Show us the map.

    It does not matter whether “the first kingdom of Ireland was a puppet state” or not. It is enough that it was recognized as a distinct kingdom with it’s own rulers and culture – both of which you did in your degradation of Ireland. There were no hard boundaries delineating the various nations of the American Indian Tribes either, but they recognized each other. They were also recognized (though not necessarily respected) by the US government. Your problem is that there WAS and NEVER HAS BEEN a “nation of Palestine” for you to hang your hat on, therefore you cannot point to it on a map nor can you claim that it has had anything take away from it.

    Unless of course you can point to “Palestine” on a map and either describe to us what form of government they used or anything about their culture that distinguishes them from common terrorists…..

  • Alpha 1
  • IllinoisPatriot

    I have no working definition of “Zionist”, so I have no opinion on that.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Wikipedia is not accepted as a valid source for any academic endeavor, as it can easily be edited by anyone, anywhere anytime with no fact-checking prior to edits and no accountability for the edits.

    Therefore, show us a map of “Palestine” and you should also easily find the date of its formation and its form of government.

  • Alpha 1
  • IllinoisPatriot

    Strange…. I see a map of Israel. No markings to indicate the borders of your mythical “Palestine”.

    Though the entire map is labeled “Palestinian Territories”, there are no boundaries or other delineations for “Palestine”.

    The map is clearly one of Israel as that is the country that is highlighted, (again without any boundary delineations for “Palestine”).

    I asked for a map of the nation of “Palestine” not a map of Israel or of the nation that has graciously allowed them refuge.

    Care to try again or are you admitting defeat ?

  • Alpha 1

    You can see the lines delineating Palestine from Israel. At this point you’re just being obtuse. Israel doesn’t even claim the West Bank or Gaza Strip, but the state of Palestine does. No map would satisfy you because you just don’t like Muslims, Palestinians, or Jews who don’t serve as an accessory to an ethnostate we don’t live in.

    Of course, you’re just trying to avoid the fundamental question, which is whether Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians has been moral and just. Arguing about Palestine’s place on a map serves as a convenient distraction.

  • Alpha 1

    Zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism, based on establishing and maintaining a Jewish state in the land of Palestine. Israel is built on this ideology and like I said before, a lot of the early zionists who founded Israel were secular or atheist Jews. Do you consider them Jewish? I do.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Sure they were Jewish, but I do not think their preferences necessarily drove the choices of what land would be available to them to resettle after the persecution of the Reich and their Muslim allies throughout the ME. I think they got lucky in that GB had control of the land they now hold and was willing to cede it to the Jews as a new homeland. Remember that after WW2, there was not a country in Europe that would (or could) accept the Jews and guarantee their safety due to the large number of ex-NAZIs that (like the radicalized Muslims and BDS sympathizers of today) felt it was their “duty” to continue Hitler’s policies of locating and exterminating all Jews.

    Having their own homeland was the best option available – a place where they could band together for safety, make their own laws without fear of persecution by NAZI sympathizers in government, and become responsible for their own safety and well-being. As I recall, they DID ask for their “Biblical homeland”, and no doubt SOME felt it was someway in fulfillment of prophesy, but I am among the vast majority of Christians that do not see prophesy in every event surrounding Israel. If (as you say) many of them were Atheists, then (based on your definition) Zionism would not have been in the mix for decision-making. Again – I believe they got lucky that the land they now occupy was under the control of one of the Allied Powers and that Allied Power was willing to cede the land for a new Jewish state. Coincidence (as Atheists would term it) or Prophecy (as the more devout Jews would have termed it) ? As an Atheist, you should just chalk it up to coincidence and let it go as there was never a guarantee that the land the devout Jews really wanted ever become available to them.

    I still have no real opinion as to whether Atheist Jews are (based on your definition) Zionists or Jewish. I suppose some could be both, some could be neither as it’s now possible to convert to Judaism as well as to renounce Judaism and no longer be considered a Jew – even if born that way.

    As far as I’m concerned, Atheist Jews are just another sub-species of Atheist. No more, no less. By declaring themselves Atheist, such Jews are effectively abandoning and repudiating their religious heritage. Their opinion on Israel does not affect or interest me one way or another as they’ve already shown incredibly bad judgement by abandoning their birthright and heritage.

    There is no physical distinguishing characteristics (like breasts/beards/size or skin color or epicanthic folds) to distinguish a jewish individual from any other Caucasian so unless an Atheist Jew wears a sign around his/her neck or tattoos “Jew” on their forehead, there is no reason to consider them a “special interest” group subject to persecution. Technically they may still be genetically part of the ethnic group known as “Jews”, but (as I indicated above) could have renounced their ethnicity/culture/heritage or converted TO Judaism, making them no longer recognized by the Jewish community or religion.

    Short answer: No – I do NOT consider Atheist Jews to be Jewish as they have renounced and rejected both God and their heritage.
    I do NOT automatically consider all those that practice Judaism to be ethnic Jews nor do I consider all ethnic Jews to be Jews in the sense of the Bible (God’s people) because many of them (like you claim to be) have rejected both God and their heritage.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    The Gaza strip and West Bank are delineated because they are contested territories. As are the Golan Heights. Those lands were taken by Israel during the 6-day war and remain part of Israel today (as the map clearly shows). The latest salvo from Trump is that Israel must return to the 1967 boundaries that does NOT include either the Gaza Strip or the West Bank (or Golan Heights) prior to the start of any negotiation. Israel has refused to relinquish those claims as doing so strategically and seriously hampers their ability to defend the rest of their country from attack by putting the remaining country within range of the rockets and artillery that the terrorists routinely shoot into the country today, making no place in Israel safe from terrorist attacks originating outside their borders.

    That is beside the fact that the West Bank and coastal region of the Gaza Strip are some of the prime farming and seaport/river transportation access areas that keeps Israel from becoming a land-locked country with no access to the outside world for trade or supplies in the event of attack or of war.

    And NO there IS no line “delineating Palestine” from Israel. I see big read letters identifying “ISRAEL” but no similar letters (or highlighting in a different color) identifying “PALESTINE”. Furthermore, the Golan Heights has a parenthetical note “Israeli Occupied” and is in an alternate color to the rest of the map of Israel (including Gaza and the West Bank), which share the same highlight color that is intended to differentiate Israel from its neighbors that are all in shades of grey.

    If the map were intending to show “Palestinian territories” as you claim, why is your mythical state of “Palestine” not highlighted separately, not labeled as “Palestine” in any way (words, color, notes in the legend, etc) as the Golan Heights are labeled as “(Isreali Occupied)” ?

    For anyone able to read a map, this map just confirms my point that there is no nation of “Palestine” and never has been.

  • Alpha 1

    So Jewish identity is defined entirely by religion because Christians say so, and the founding of Israel had very little to do with Zionism. Gotcha

  • sometypeofguy

    You make some good points but on the other hand the language used by Rep Omar is the same as that used by women’s march leader Tamika Mallory when defending anti-semitic language used by Rev. Farrakhan. Part and parcel of virulent racism on the right and left today is a certain disingenuous denial. “Who, me?” Anti-semitism is on the rise on Right and Left.

  • sometypeofguy

    Dude stop spreading a false gospel. Take the plank out of your eye. You don’t decide who is and who isn’t Christian.

  • IllinoisPatriot

    Jewism has a religious/heritage/cultural aspect as well as a genealogical component. If you define a Jew as being solely born of a Jewish mother, then conversion to Judaism is clearly impossible. One must be BORN a Jew to be a Jew. That is no longer the case however as my Jewish acquaintances tell me.

    If one defines a Jew as someone that follows the Torah, goes to Synagogue (spelling?) and respects the Jewish traditions, holidays, and the history of the Jewish people, then becoming an Atheist is to reject all of that and to essentially no longer be a Jew.

    It may surprise you to know that Christianity works in much the same way. Jesus said that a man’s heart is visible in his actions and in his words. A Christian is identifiable by the company he/she keeps, by their actions, by their demonstrated values. An Atheist has no such values nor the directive to strive to live a life like Christ as he/she has rejected Christ, God, and all religions except the religion of Atheism in which the highest authority is Government.

    Therefore those that claim to be Christians yet act like Atheists are in fact Atheists as they have rejected Christ in their hearts and in their minds. If such people ever truly accept Christ back into their lives, the change is immediately evident as it is extremely life-changing.

    Atheists simply have no way to comprehend this as Atheism is much like living life as one blind (spiritually) from birth, while Christians are living with their spiritual eyes open so they can see and avoid the pitfalls the Atheists are subject to as well as seeing the gifts and minor miracles Christ works in each of our lives. When an Atheist’s spiritual eyes are opened by acceptance of Christ, the change in behavior, attitude, outlook and relationships is not only highly visible, but life-changing. I believe it’s safe to say that Trump has had no such epiphany since 2016 contrary to what the profit preachers may claim (that’s “profit” as opposed to “prophetic” – not a misspelling).

  • IllinoisPatriot

    The Bible teaches us to be beware of false teachers and to warn others away from those that would pretend to follow Christ while misleading his true followers.

    Christ says we will know his people by their actions, their words, and their deeds. The actions of Trump, Peolosi, etc are NOT those of Christians – nor are those of the so-called “Evangelicals” that defend the corruption and ongoing sins of Trump while attempting to give Trump’s sinful nature the patina of acceptance.

    I call it like i see it. If you can demonstrate with Biblical commandments and teachings where we are taught to lie, commit fraud, belittle and mock others, where we are taught that adultery is acceptable to Christ and that abortion is a Christian sacrament as Pelosi has named it, then I’ll listen.

    Until then, I’ll assume that I’ve read the Bible correctly and none of the above are acceptable to Christ nor should they be acceptable to His followers and that those that teach otherwise are false teachers.

  • Fmontyr

    I see you as naive and under-educated about that which you write. Examples, “Palestinians” are nothing more than terrorists” expresses your naivete. In the following paragraph you have contradicted yourself in the first two sentences. Then you give totally unwarranted assumptions. How do you know what are my views of America or the Jewish people? Just showing-off aren’t you?

  • Alpha 1

    Nothing I’ve seen from Omar is antisemitic. Everything I’ve seen from her was criticizing lobbying organizations like AIPAC that use money to lobby or (christian) politicians pushing legislation that would outlaw boycotting Israel in America. It’s not Jews signing off on anti-BDS legislation, but for some reason criticizing those laws is treated as an attack on us.

  • Alpha 1

    If one defines a Jew as someone that follows the Torah, goes to Synagogue (spelling?) and respects the Jewish traditions, holidays, and the history of the Jewish people, then becoming an Atheist is to reject all of that and to essentially no longer be a Jew.

    Who says any of that has anything to do with believing in god or being religiously observant? You’re so close to getting it when you realize that Jewish identity exists at the intersection of culture, ethnicity and religion, but you won’t see us as anything more than biblical Israelites who exist as actors in an elaborate prophecy pageant. Your blinders keep you from understanding being Jewish as anything more than a beta version of whatever protestant Christianity you subscribe to.

  • sometypeofguy

    Jewish ethnicity is meaningless because you declare it to be so? No wonder people think evangelicals are arrogant, hypocritical dolts.

  • Fmontyr

    I must say, Susan, that you are on the wrong side of this issue. I received this today from Rabbi Alissa Wise, Deputy Director of The Jewish Voice for Peace, an organization I support wholeheartedly. I suggest that you understand what their position is regarding the Palestinian/Jewish situation.

    “House Democratic leaders are throwing Ilhan Omar under the bus – and it’s an all hands on deck moment. The House will vote on a resolution condemning antisemitism in response to Rep. Ilhan Omar as she dares to speak up for Palestinian rights and critique Israel in a way no other member of Congress is doing.

    Of course antisemitism deserves condemnation and attention, but this is a scapegoating strategy straight out of the bully playbook to intimidate others from speaking up – and we need to meet it with a massive public vote of support for Rep. Omar. This resolution is not being introduced out of a genuine concern for antisemitism, it’s about attacking Omar for her criticism of Israel.

    If House Democratic leaders really cared about growing antisemitism, they’d be leading the charge against white supremacy that’s publicly fueled by members of Congress like Rep. Jim Jordan…”

    Final thought, seeing that you attended Liberty University, could it be that you are such a strong supporter of the Jewish State of Israel because of the coming Rapture and your self-interest thereof?

  • ClanSutherland

    “Specifically, youthful, ignorant, radical crud.OH – and anti-Semite crud. Let’s not forget that.”
    That’s where you lost your perspective and me.

  • Camino1

    Must one be pro-Israel to be in Congress?

  • Fmontyr

    A must read for you, Susan. “The dishonest smearing of Ilhan Omar” by Paul Waldman, who was raised in an intensely Zionist family with a long history of devotion and sacrifice for Israel. You will obtain further education from the comments. Why do you want government control of expression? Shouldn’t you retract this article?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/03/05/dishonest-smearing-ilhan-omar/?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.333ded1aea8e

  • Alpha 1

    You’re not going to change her mind. Susan and the conservatives getting mad about this don’t care about the views of liberal or leftist Jews because they’re mostly evangelical zionists who think we exist to be subservient to them and their colonial project. She believes Jews exist to support the Israeli ethnostate, settle Palestine, serve as footsoldiers in her war against muslims, and fulfill christian prophecy. If we don’t fill that role she thinks we’re either fake Jews or “self-hating” for not supporting a country half of us don’t live in.

  • Fmontyr

    You are the only one with a level head in this discussion. For most of the others their comments derive from either religious fervor or misplaced emotions. I come at this matter solely from a social justice viewpoint. I am not Jewish but consider the religion to be a noble and beautiful one. What bothers me is the manner in which the Palestinians have been treated. That has been well beneath the morality of the religion and has been rightly objected to by Jews here in N. America. Why Susan is so defensive about this and aligns with the Likud government is beyond me

  • Alpha 1

    Hey thanks for the solidarity. Between antisemitic evangelicals using us as a cudgel against muslims and Netnayahu allying himself with antisemites like the Republicans, Viktor Orban, and the Saudis, this is an exhausting time to be a lefty Jew. It’s infuriating watching right wingers like Meghan McCain try to speak for us so they can redefine antisemitism as “criticizing christian zionists and Likud,” and it’s good to have allies to push back against it. The good news is we seem to have won this one. The left wing of the democratic party, like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, is coming out in support of Omar and Pelosi doesn’t seem to be able keep her caucus in lockstep support of Israel anymore.

    And while we’re talking about solidarity, solidarity with Muslims! This whole debacle is an attempt to divide and conquer vulnerable minorities, and the only way to fight it is to stick together. And if we’re doing poster’s solidarity, shout out to Chemical. He’s also on the right side of this issue and is honestly a better poster than me.

  • Fmontyr

    As a Canadian you are certainly on top of US politics. And, as I believe, you are an ex-Jew who sees the bad of where Israel is going and how it treats Palestinians. Keep you voice strong for what is just and right. Check out The Jewish Voice for Peace which I wholeheartedly support. I’ll review Chemical’s and will pay more attention to him now. I agree that hatred wherever it is directed toward religions, ethenic, and the must not be tolerated.

  • Alpha 1

    Canadians follow American politics closer than Americans do, it’s one of our favourite past times! So I’m actually familiar with JVFP. And I don’t consider myself an ex-Jew. I don’t follow the religion, but I’m still culturally Jewish. A lot of us are secular or atheists. It’s kind of like how you can be Pakistani without being Muslim or Irish without being Catholic.

  • Fmontyr

    I understand. I went from Christian to (scientific) Humanist.